- ongoing project
Introduction[]
This Blog is for me to keep track and reference of DB feats that I am asked about, or have to provide info on often. Or I otherwise think are important. I'm glad if people get info from it but it's primary purpose is for me to catalog stuff to pull up efficiently later.
RoF Base Goku is more powerful than SSJG was during BoG[]
1. Base Goku punches out a giant energy ball at the end of the Beerus battle that is according to Beerus and Goku more powerful than the SSJG clash Beerus and Goku had.
Goku states he doesn't feel any weaker as a MSSJ, and Beerus states Goku is still SSJG level as a MSSJ. He is stated to have surpassed his SSJG level.
http://i.imgur.com/jkDuLLa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zaDr1Hn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uNvsCfi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e4lvQWk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pdTMzRk.png
http://i.imgur.com/O1xoTSe.png
He says he still hasn't hit him with all his power. Beerus also says that he won't be able to negate it so easily unlike the other time.
http://i.imgur.com/BAxfecy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/90BQRnH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LkInZc9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xQ8TeSt.jpg
Then Goku after using his full power as MSSJ in a Super kamehameha, and colliding it with Beerus own energy attack, punches it out as a base form in the end when pushed to his max.
http://i.imgur.com/Si3b664.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2QN7PBe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TTmbBPB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3WW6ojw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I7ntq69.jpg
Also Narrator confirms that all their attacks while fighting as MSSJ with Post God power are capable of destroying U7. This is after the whole shockwaves things is not happening anymore.
http://i.imgur.com/55f8vro.jpg
It is also confirmed that when referring to destroying the "Universe" it means the entirety of the U7 macrocosm, which is multiple Universe or larger sized space-time continuum's such as afterlife, living world etc.
Beerus also confirms Goku is stronger than when they fought before Goku obtains SSJB, but after their battle, proving without SSJB, he is still superior to his SSJG form yet again.
The guides even confirm Goku and Vegeta obtain god-like power without transforming in RoF. Again proving base form is above SSJG level from BoG.
2. Gohan and Krillin state Goku while in base is beyond what he fought Beerus with.
http://i.imgur.com/vdcsNEk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OPQvLNA.png
http://i.imgur.com/JHW2cBN.png
And they are referring to MSSJ God essence as they sensed that.
http://i.imgur.com/jdfckkr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3UVzwRz.jpg
This also shows Goku's MSSJ and base in the Beerus battle did not need god ki to reach such power, otherwise the z fighters would not have sensed it. His SSJB and SSJG are the only forms to have god ki.
3. Base Goku is able to fight Beerus, and Beerus enjoys the fight in episode 42. This would further support he is SSJG level in base.
http://i.imgur.com/39kBIn4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pf1yqeo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/obDHCHt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nIY13IJ.jpg
I really don't see how we couldn't think he is above SSJG level in base.
Roshi the Planet buster![]
The Feat[]
- Moon diameter = 72px = 3474km
- Edge of the screen distance = 108px = 5211km
- T = around 20 seconds (for the announcer to look at the sky and not see the Moon anymore)
- Energy = 0.5*7.34767309e+22*260550^2 = 2.49e+33j, or 596 zettatons (Planet level)
Credit for the calc goes to Kepekley23
- Speed = 384,400km/10s (Time till Roshi finishes beam) = 38,400km/s = 0.13 SoL (Relativistic)
- Note these times are consistent with anime as well.
Is it consistent?[]
So some people will say that this feat is inconsistent, but is it really? Is there no other similar feats/statements to substantiate it from similar characters? The answer is actually that there is multiple substantiating statements and feats to back up this feat. I will share a few.
1. Kami recreates the moon. Now this is easily moon level of course, but could potentially be argued much higher depending on the process of creation of the moon, such as if you used mass energy conversion. *Note that Bulma had the Dragon Balls at her residence during this time, and there was no mention of Shenron being used, therefore it wasn't Kami using Shenron.
2. Piccolo obliterates the moon. A very similar feat that has been calculated more than once to yield slightly higher results than Roshi's moon bust due to shorter time frame.
- Note this was performed by beginning of Z Piccolo casually, while suppressed, in seconds, so should be comparable at least somewhat to full power Buff Roshi Kamehameha (likely over 180 PL).
After all even Goku from 23rd budokai while using his super kamehameha was listed as having a higher power level (910) than suppressed Piccolo (329), and almost equal to his BoZ counterpart while using the kamehameha against Raditz (924).
3. Goku 23rd Budokai is stated to have power in his kamehameha that exceeds Roshis, which could "shatter the moon". Again at least somewhat comparable to Buff Roshi in power.
4. It is stated by King Piccolo that he could destroy the entire world, which would fit with scaling him above Roshis moon buster.
Conclusion
- Old King Piccolo stating he is able to destroy the world regardless of the ramifications.
- The guides confirming not just the power of Roshi's moon level attack, but also stating outright Goku's Super Kamehameha had superior power to that particular feat.
- Kami being able to create the moon and being comparable to Shenron, and King Piccolo being able to Kill Shenron.
- A suppressed BoZ Piccolo being able to casually obliterate the moon with far beyond moon level power, despite his power not being far beyond what it was in the 23 Budokai.
The only counter points people constantly bring up are "daizenshuu says King Piccolos attack is like a small nuclear bomb that could destroy a city", which is a secondary statement from a guide that contradicts itself if you interpret that as saying his max AP is city level, since a small nuke isn't even city level, and nowhere is that said to be his limit in actuality, just that a casual attack was like that. It also contradicts the multiple other statements and showings above. Another one people try to use is "Piccolo Jr was tired from an island level attack", which is again ridiculous since ki control is a very real thing that has existed since early DB, making the notion that their AoE always indicates there max AP false. Roshi directly states he held back on mount frying pan, and Goku and Roshi literally fire Kamehameha's near full force that can target a single body like Tao, or even better the Dodon ray can target just the chest but get past their durability.
With this I can conclude it is very consistent that these feats are substantiated by other similar feats, statements and official power levels (no calc stacking or head canon), and the arguments against Roshis moon beam being consistent are in themselves flawed and easily debunked.
So Roshi and up are planet busters with at least relativistic speed
All DB cast can Atomize/Defend against it[]
Even in Early Dragon Ball Piccolo can atomize people.
It is stated Trunks reduced Frieza to atoms.
Freeza guide:
History He repeatedly conducted planetary invasions, collecting the outstanding warriors from various planets. He sold off the beautiful planets, and his hobby was collecting them. What's more, he acted as a land shark. Feared for his terrible band of followers, he is also the one who destroyed Planet Vegeta. He and his men came to Planet Namek, and there for the first time they were made to suffer. Even after bringing in the superior squadron known as the Ginyu Special-Squad, the tide of battle worsened. During his battle with Vegeta, he transformed willingly for the first time. After transforming, he utilized power far above what he had before his transformation, and he made Vegeta suffer severely, cruelly killing him after reaching his final form. As he defeated his opponents one after the other, he killed Kuririn, and was only outmatched by Super Saiyan Goku. Though he was thought to have died when Planet Namek was wiped out, he was revived as a mecha. But he was reduced to atoms by a boy who had come from the future, reaching a miserable end. (Daizenshuu 2, pp.190-193)
Not to mention even the core of the Sun produces temperatures hot enough to fuse atoms with it's energy output. Even Nuclear and Atomic warheads can do this either breaking or fusing the atoms. So realistically any character with city level's of energy output should be able to destroy or fuse atoms anyway.
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3212
Of timelines and Higher Dimensions (Xenoverse/Heroes)[]
Process of creation, and number of timelines[]
First off when dealing with timelines we can look at the main canon
It is stated that many timelines are created from the smallest of changed events in the manga. Basically ALL POSSIBLE outcomes are created. Not just one possible alternate one.
Whis confirms that alternate timelines are made whenever events change in Super. Such as how alternate timelines were made from Beerus destroying Zamasu.
In Super Pilaf states there are "tons" of timelines. Note Pilaf was able to fix a problem with the time machine that Bulma was having trouble with, and was making giant mechs even in Dragon Ball, so he is a genius and understands time travel.
http://i.imgur.com/Qh3jbV7.jpg
Finally of course the traditional cosmology of the 12 universes in each timeline still applies in DBX/Heroes. And there are more pocket Universes etc. That is for another post though. So in reality each "timeline" is a small multiverse.
Now into Xenvoerse/Heroes specific cosmology
It is stated each wormhole leads to an alternate "dimension" (timeline in this context), and it is shown the GT timeline is contained in a single scroll, which is one of many. So each scroll is it's own history, and each "Age" they visit is an alternate timeline.
It is confirmed that there are "Endless worlds" or timelines by Cell in Shin Budokai, which like the other games is present in Heroes. Endless means no end, or infinite quite literally.
There are "infinite" paths for infinite timelines confirmed in Xenoverse. And for those trying to claim the possibilities don't already exist, Trunks above in the manga says otherwise since many timelines are created for all the different possible changes, not just one, and it is stated in Heroes that the "possibilities are overflowing" at one point, showing the possibilities crossing over, therefore they already exist to be able to cross over without having to first be created.
https://imgur.com/a/3UUOU#hbTEjH8
Also the DLC 6 pack in Xenoverse 2 is literally called "Infinite History" implying yet again Infinite timelines.
It is even stated in Budokai Tenkaichi 3 that Goku saw existing worlds that were possibilities, and that there were endless possibilities. This again confirms that the endless and infinite possibilities are all existing worlds.
In fact, the final undeniable proof, is that Fuu himself directly states that history, as in existing non linear timelines and past events, are not finite, and thus infinite.
"History isn't linear. And it's certainly not finite. It's formed from a vast network of countless events"
So there are infinite currently existing timelines in DB Heroes/Xenoverse.
Higher Dimensional Constructs in DB[]
The CoT is fifth dimensional, or 5D, since it is a space beyond and outside time and the multiverse, that holds all timelines, or infinite 4D structures within it.
"You saw Goku and the rest in the chasm of time? You sure you weren't daydreaming? But that place is joined with many eras. It shouldn't even exist. It's not strange no matter what happens there."
https://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Crack_of_Time
A space that holds timelines or 4D structures is generally considered a 5D space. "Their model has our familiar four dimensions floating in an infinitely large, negatively curved fifth dimension."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327231-900-beyond-space-and-time-5d-into-the-unseen/
It is also stated that the patroler is "extradimensional", which refers to a being that is "Coming from a dimension outside Einsteinium space-time." Or in other words 5D or higher. Further implying It's natural environment, the time nest which contains all timelines, and places it can exist comfortably, like crack of time which also contins all timelines, are 5D.
So the DBH world is actually a 5D construct.
The real world[]
Next we move into the highest level seen in DB to date, and that is "The real world". It is confirmed that you must "Transcend" the DBH multiverse to reach the real world. Meaning the real world requires significant qualitative superiority to anything in the DBH multiverse.
"Your world was also being affected? Damn...it transcended space and went to a different world as well..."
https://imgur.com/gallery/CTC2f
Which as we covered, contains 5D structures, such as the crack of time.
And yes it is part of Heroes world.
It also is stated that a "Dimensional transfer system" is required to travel between the DBH world and the real world, again showing it is a higher dimension.
"The dimension transfer system is ready."
"Dimensional transfer is about to begin."
It is further shown and stated that the DBH world, or multiverse is like mere fiction to the real world. We can see Demon God Salsa playing a 3DS with DBH:UMX in it, and that the people of the real world literally play the DB heroes game and consider DB lore fiction, and that you are supposed to enjoy the missions alongside the "Charismas" who are DB characters.
https://imgur.com/gallery/znxtw
This set of statements and showings specifically show that the real world is another "dimension" above the DBH multiverse that REQUIRES you to "transcend" the already 5D DBH multiverse to reach. And also shows a qualitative superiority to the regular DBH world, viewing it as mere fiction that can be altered at the whims of even children in the real world like fiction.
This qualifies the real world as at least a 6D construct.
Xenoverse 2 Future Warrior in game heiarchy[]
He can battle an amped fused zamasu solo for a while and helps beat him through the battle.
Also it's stated even your base is above golden Frieza. Without transforming.
Can fight SSJB RoF Goku and Vegeta, Golden Frieza and Meacha cooler all at once and win.
Only warrior to pass Whis test for training so far. None else was even close.
Whis states you are a genius, and after finishing his training Whis states you pick up his training faster than Goku and Vegeta, and that you have natural talent that they could only wish for.
In a gauntlet match on PQ 122, you manage to defeat Beerus, then 18, 17 and Buu from ToP, then SSJB Goku, SSJB Vegeta and Golden Frieza from ToP, then Trunks and Zamasu, then Fused Zamasu and Vegito Blue, and then finally you defeat Jiren, MUI Goku and Fuu all at once.
And you even wound casual Whis in training, although you are still weaker than him.
Thus we can easily conclude the Future warrior from DBX2 is more powerful than ToP MUI Goku, and capable of actually pushing Whis to the point where he was injured when holding back, something people like Goku or Beerus are completely unable to do, although still not as powerful as Whis. Also his potential and growth rate are vastly superior to even the likes of Goku, Freiza etc. or other quick learners.
Kid Buu's outrageous power in DBZ[]
So Kid buu's power is a hotly contested thing and has been for a long time, mostly due to differing opinions of what should be taken as literal, and what should be taken as hyperbolic, also due to unknown time frames for statements and feats. But in DBZ he has one feat of being able to destroy the Grand Kais planet in that instant with one attack, which is not ambiguous or hyperbolic at all.
The big issue with this is nobody knew the size of the Grand Kais planet. However I believe I have sufficiently found an accurate estimate for it's size, based on a direct side by side screenshot of the planet, and heaven (which is the size of the Universe), and a second screenshot showing the planets relatively tight orbit of Heaven, along with it being somewhat comparable in size to heaven, and not simply up close to the viewer, due to it being depicted behind the visible curvature of heavens surface, as the plane travels away from the viewer towards it after it came out from the horizon.
So by using some simple pixel scaling with Heaven being the diameter of the Observable Universe to be conservative, I found the approximate size of Grand kais Planet.
Heaven: 245 pixels
Grand Kais Planet: 9 pixels
9/245 = 0.0367
8.798e26m (diameter of Observable Universe/Heaven) x 0.0367 (GK Planet compared to Heaven) = 3.228866e25m or 3,412,914,055 light years.
Now with the size of the Grand Kai's Planet out of the way, we can move on to the speed and power of Kid Buu's attack that can wipe out a planet 3,412,914,055 light years in Diameter!
Speed[]
We will simply say it takes 10 seconds for the attack to destroy the planet, to give it a conservative time frame as this was an immediate threat from a single energy blast, which usually takes mere moments to fully disperse.
3.23e25m(diameter of GK Planet) / 10s(estimated time frame) = 3.23e24 m/s
3.23e24m/s / 299792458m/s(SoL) = 1.08e16 (or 10.8 Quadrillion times ftl.)
This should also scale to combat speed because DB characters can consistently move as fast as their energy blasts and explosions from said blasts, as well as manipulate the attacks and accurately control them after being fired.
Energy needed to destroy[]
As seen here it is stated that Buu would destroy the Grand Kai's Planet.
Now a simple calculation to find how many joules of energy you would need to accomplish such a feat. We can easily just use the GBE of a Planet of that size with the same gravity as Earth for an approximation, even if it is a low ball. We can use a calculator for this to increase accuracy and give us an upper and lower yield. All we need to do is plug in the diameter in Km of GK planet, which is 3.23e22km.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Calculator.html
As we can see here, the resulting numbers are
Low end (less accurate): 3.642E+87 joules (Multi-Galaxy level)
High end (More accurate due to faster dispersion): 4.999E+113 joules (Well above Observable Universe level)
SO to summarize kid Buu is actually multi-galaxy to Universe level in the anime, as well as about 10 quadrillion times ftl in a conservative estimate, due to being able to destroy Grand kai's planet with a single ki blast.
Goku and Pikkon Cross Other World[]
This is one amazing speed feat that base Goku and Pikkon are able to do. Note this is even before the 7 year time skip to, making it that much more impressive. They fly from Grand Kai's Planet, down to Hell.
Now why is this amazing? Because it is established that Heaven alone is the size of the Universe in the show and guides.
And Grand Kai's planet is above heaven in every depiction and map, meaning they crossed down to heaven, across heaven, and down to Hell.
All depictions show this distance as multiple times the diameter of Heaven, or multiple times the diameter of the Universe. To low ball we will simply use 2 times the diameter of the Observable Universe, or 186 billion light years. The true numbers would be much higher.
As for time frame no specific time frame is given, but it was a short time as it was an immediate threat that they arrived to take care of and came back from in a relatively short time frame. We will simply use the on screen time of about 30 seconds for the travel time from when they leave Grand Kais planet to when they are seen in Hell.
SO 1.703e27m(distance traveled) / 30s(estimated time frame) = 5.68e25m/s
5.68e25m/s / 299792458m/s(SoL) = 1.90e17 (or 190 Quadrillion times ftl.)
Ki control in Dragon Ball[]
So this should be obvious by now, but I still get asked about it. This is the fact that the Dragon Ball characters control their ki to determine not just how much energy they unleash, but also the amount of collateral damage they do as well, or how focused the blasts are.
Here is some stuff on Ki control.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/chozenshu-1-we-asked-akira-toriyama-2013/
Question: What are the requirements for becoming strong?
Toriyama: There are physical limits to the strength of the body itself, so in order to overcome that barrier, it’s necessary to increase your “ki”. Normally, the more you increase your ki, the harder it is to control, so ki control is also important.
- Note it is stated by AT himself that strength beyond regular physical limitations is based on the amount of ki, and control one has over it. So more ki equates to more physical strength
Here is some scenes from the series that deal directly with controlling ki and it's amount of collateral damage done, as well as how focused the blasts are. It includes Goku firing an attack stated to be able to destroy the planet without much collateral.
It also has Vegeta firing his final flash and making the attack condensed and smaller despite it being able to destroy the planet.
It also features Goku being stated to be able to focus all his ki into a single point with his kamehameha.
It also features Piccolo gathering all his power onto his finger tip and being stated to control their power at will.
And finally we have even in DBS Goku learning to control his godly ki to prevent the universe from being destroyed, and Vegeta and Goku learning even further control of their godly ki later on as well so it won't even leak or be wasted a tiny bit.
Frieza destroys Planet Vegeta[]
Version 1[]
In Dragon Ball GT, when Baby revives Planet Plant, which IS Planet Vegeta with another name, we can see its size compared to the Earth:
Reborn planet Vegeta compared to Earth
Earth = 13px = 12472km
Planet Vegeta = 130px = 124720km.
This is a little bigger than Saturn, and a little smaller than Jupiter.
According to the Planetary Parameter calculator, the mass of Planet Vegeta, taking the 10x gravity into account, would be 5.715E+27kg, which is ~3.5 times above Jupiter's mass.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/Calculators/PlanetaryParameter.html
Now, let's calc Freeza's feat based on this as the parameters for Planet Vegeta.
Freeza destroys Planet Vegeta
Planet Vegeta = 45px = 124720km (reason why I didn't scale the full blast was because it expanded before this) Distance the fragments traveled = 695px = 1926231.11111km 963 115.556 kilometers is the blast radius
The timeframe for it to happen is when it reaches Freeza's face, or about 7 seconds. And don't complain about the fact it still exploded again near the end, because this is actually still a low-end, since the final explosion covered a distance that is almost certainly FTL.
963115.556km / 7 seconds = 137 587 937m/s, or about 0.91788791097c.
Final result is about 6.446E+43 joules.
Large Star level First Form Frieza
Credit for the calc goes to Kepekley23
Version 2[]
This version of the calculation does not use the calculated size of Planet Vegeta obtained from DBGT as a reference, but instead strictly uses the DBS scene of the event, and assumes the planet to be the size of Earth as a low ball.
The low end here is the time it takes for the entire mass of the planet, the last piece of debris, to leave the screen.
The timeframe for this to happen is about 1 second.
374 / 305 = 1.226229508196721 * 12756 km = 15641.78 km expanded in 1 second
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Resources/Calculators/PlanetaryParameter.html
10G Earth sized planet has a mass of 5.973E+25 kg
KE = 0.5*5.973E+25*15641780^2
KE = 7.3069286e+39 Joules
1,746,397 Yottatons of TNT, or 1.7 Quettatons
High Dwarf Star level First Form Frieza
Baby Broly solos! Power level over 1 Million![]
Now this is an intense showing from Baby Broly. As many probably remember, he tanked Frieza's Supernova attack with a barrier, which Frieza used to destroy Planet Vegeta!
Now just how impressive is this? Well it turns out it is confirmed it takes twice the ki output as your opponent has for a barrier to be fully successful! This means while using his barrier, Broly would have had a power level of over 1 million, and a Ki output at large star level! This is due to the fact Frieza had a power level of 530,000 in base, and his Supernova was Large star level (as seen in a previous calc).
Large Star level Baby Broly with a power level over one million confirmed!