Currently under clean-up and revision from recent threads.
Relevant Revision Threads[]
- vsforum:threads/139455
- vsforum:threads/142279
- vsforum:threads/142789
- vsforum:threads/142450
- vsforum:threads/142864
- vsforum:threads/143385
- vsforum:threads/143443
- vsforum:threads/143692
- vsforum:threads/147161
- vsforum:threads/149614
- vsforum:threads/147633
- vsforum:threads/149679
The Universe (At least 2-B, Possibly 2-A Parallel Space-Times)[]
When time and space first began, there was only one universe with it's parallel dimensions. Each Universe and it's branches have the same parallel Dimensions.
3-D Space Per Dimension (High 3-A)[]
Show[]
Back with a Vengeance | Ben 10: Season 2, Episode 13
Gwen in the Null Void: "This place looks like it goes on forever.
Max: "It does, so keep your eyes open."
Novelizations of the episodes from a prominent show writer and a supplementary writer support the High 3-A proposal. A different writer's statement also supports the rating. To my recollection, nothing from the show contradicts the statements.
Books[]
Ben 10: War of the Worlds by Charlotte Fullerton
Novelization of Alien Force War of the Worlds Arc.
https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Charlotte_Fullerton
Link: https://archive.org/details/warofworlds0000full
"Space. The vast and beautiful cosmos fills the view in every direction with its infinite star systems, colorful nebulae, and strange worlds."
Paradox: And, Plumbers' Helpers by Barry Hutchison
Novelization of the Alien Force Plumbers' Helpers episode.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Paradox.html?id=8nxnPgAACAAJ
Link: https://archive.org/details/paradoxandplumbe0000unse
"With a final deafening scream, the alien creature was dragged into the van and sucked into the dark, empty, endless wasteland of the Null Void."
Statements[]
Link: https://web.archive.org/web/20220508072713/https://twitter.com/rouleau1/status/1308964513887039488
"Quick question, how big is the Ben 10 Universe, is it infinite in size?"
"Yes. Infinite"
Parallel Dimensions[]
Null Void[]
It is a Prison Dimension, an infinite alternate/parallel Dimension that grids to the regular space by the Anur system (a inter-dimensional realm), confirming that the Null Void is a part of the universe. Further supported by Kevin who despite living half of his life in the Null Void and knowing that it's a alternate dimension, said that universe is everything. Further confirmed by Paradox who referred Multiverse as "more" bigger reality than Kevin imagines. Further stated by Servantis who referred Ben's dimension and the Null Void combined as a single universe, the Null Void has never been referred as Universe in the lore neither is treated as one by anyone it's just has been treated as prison, colony, extra-dimension.
Ledgerdomain[]
A realm that is made made up of mana where Time Time flows differently and rules of physics is different here in the sense Sky Sky and earth aren't parallel here. Confirmed by Gwen that it's a part of the universe. Also Legerdomain is just a homeworld of Charmcaster's species and rock monsters of the universe. So it's very logical to say as well that it's a part of the universe.
Anur phaetos[]
An inter-dimensional realm that exists between Dimensions and is a part of the known universe. It is also a home world of Ectonurite species of the universe and it branches off in parallel and together with Ben's dimension (and all of infinite dimensions) such that each universe have it's own Anur Phaetos.
Bladder Dimension[]
Gourmand species linked to a Trans-Spatial Trans-Spatial bladder Dimension where they store their food, Rook stated that is a part of universe wonders.
Dimension 12[]
Pan A Pan-dimensional realm where time stood still. Kevin despite being aware of Dimension 12 claimed that universe is everything, further confirmed by paradox who said "there is always far more to the reality than we imagine" while referring to the multiverse means, what Kevin was aware of till know is just a universe and there is realities beyond even it.
Dimension of Bezel[]
Every timeline/universe has a Dimension of Bezel where Charms of Bezel were created. Alternate Timelines were also shown to contain these charms which wouldn't be possible if this dimension exist outside the universe since alternate timelines branch from the prime Universe.
Rex Dimension[]
A parallel Dimension similiar to Ben's Dimension where Rex lives, Ben compared this Dimension with the likes of the Null Void, legerdomain and the Null Void which are in-universe Dimensions in Ben 10, further it was shown that Rex Dimension and Ben's Dimension can be connected via Dimensional disruptor whose functioning is same as of the Null Void gun, A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions.
100+ Other Dimensions[]
According to Azmuth, Dagon had enslaved a 100 dimensions and seeks to enslave ours. Should he gain a foothold here, the entire universe falls since the only hope for the Entire Universe was Ascalon.
Infinite Dimensions[]
Dimensions mentioned by Holiday at the end of the crossover, the context of Dimensions in the entire crossover was only in-universe Dimensions and they haven't used to refer universes even for once. Further in the Doctor holiday statement of "Infinite Dimensions" it had included the Rex dimension, Ben's Dimension and the Null Void inherently giving the statement enough context for the universe to be considered infinite dimensional. For the support to Doctor holiday statement, a secondary canon comic book "Hero two times" where the reason expressed by Ben for why he shouldn't be able to reach the Rex's Dimension is that it has too many Dimensions to count or find Ben's dimension, infact millions of them, but as Ben was in hurry it could be that he was throwing a random number to show how big the universe is unlike Doctor holiday who calculated the number of Dimensions and gave that statement calmly. Universe or more like "multiverse of Dimensions" is infinite in size was further supported by Duncan statement of infinite universe.
Inconsistencies[]
Ben's 23 dimension is reachable through "dimension" travel and is reinforced to be a dimension showing it's not an alternate timeline.
It's quite common in fiction to use terms like Dimensions loosely but they makes sense if there is context, alternate timeline can still be referred to as dimensions with context as even Maltruant called Ben 23 an alternate dimensional timeline counterpart twice.
Paradox calls No Watch Ben's timeline a universe. He then goes on to say there are many Ben Tennysons across those dimensions and later refers to them as branching timelines. In the same instance, he uses "universe" "dimension" and "timeline" interchangeably.
No Watch Ben's Timeline being called a Universe isn't an issue. Each universe contains possibly infinite (2-A) dimensions (the ones mentioned in the first part of the blog) and there an infinite (2-A) number of such universes. Paradox differentiated between the terms, and as said above with context alternate Ben timelines can be referred to as dimensions.
Here Gwen calls Dagon's universe a dimension, yet here Dagon calls his dimension a universe and reinforces the idea that the prime universe isn’t connected to his because he has no control over it yet.
Dagon's world is an alternate dimension ,See how he refers to have control over only one universe despite having control over 100 dimensions. He may have control of one universe among the infinite universes but he only has control over 100 dimensions within the prime universe. He just doesn't have entire control in the prime universe because his powers were sealed off and he was thrown back.
Dagon then calls the universe a "dimension" again.
He basically didn't call the entire universe a dimension but basically the realm where Ben lives. Even Azmuth said that Dagon had enslaved a 100 dimensions and seeks to enslave ours. Should he gain a foothold here, the entire universe falls since the only hope for the Entire Universe was Ascalon. Lastly as said by @DontTalkDT .
I would say possibly infinite universe-sized dimensions per universe is alright, but the show is clearly playing loosely with its terminology and probably not strict in classification either. So if ya look at a feat of someone destroying the universe it should be considered whether universe means prime universe or also all dimensions (or something in-between) based on context.
Thus any statements of Universe's destruction would mean all the dimensions inside it only if they are coming up from characters having cosmic awareness such as Celestialsapiens or Professor Paradox as they are the one who could sense the destruction of all dimensions and not just with characters who have high intelligence as they Lack Cosmic Awareness.
In summary, the show is notorious for loosely playing its terminology towards dimension but as we know about the cosmology begins with a one universe and Timestream construct despite having a number of dimensions like Ledgerdomain being as old as time itself, it was determined considering other statements that a single universe consists of possibly infinite space-time dimensions.
Branching Timelines (2-A Universe Branches)*(At least 2-B, Possibly 2-A Dimensions Per Universe)[]
Show[]
https://youtu.be/0_Y-oTV9LtU[1]
Each tree can branch off alternate timelines Ad Infinitum.
Maltruant goes on to say that the timestream's length is infinite. With infinite length, the growth of branches is infinite as well.
Regarding the Ben 10 Tree and its branches:
Statements[]
These two statements support the 'infinite' universes.
According to Duncan Rouleau, there are an infinite number of universes.
According to Derrick J Wyatt, there are an infinite number of universes.
The Space Beyond (Possibly Low 1-C) Possibly 5-D[]
Ben 10 OV - The Space Beyond
The cosmology is clarified in OV.
The Space Beyond contains all Universes and their dimensions.
Per Paradox, Universes and their dimensions branch to infinity.
In UA, Paradox takes the gang to "the space beyond" "the universe." In this scene, they only show us two universes depicted as clusters in the black void within the overall timestream. You can consider this the "space between universes" in the present tense.
We are given more context to this "space beyond" universes in OV. After the CTB goes off, Paradox takes Ben to the same space beyond. Here we see numerous clusters. Now, we are given clarity on what each cluster represents. Each cluster represents a universe, and those clusters are destroyed, bringing us to the same black void within the overall timestream as before.
Per Paradox in both UA and OV, Each Universe is depicted as a cluster of dots in the Space Beyond.
If the CTB only destroyed the Ben-Earth space times, then the other dimensions (Null, Legerdomain, etc.) should have remained in their place as their clusters in the black void, but that is not the case.
Each blue cluster represents a different universe timeline branch which, in turn, is a collection of dimensions that make up that universe. We only see clusters, not lines, since they are depicted in the present tense.
This matches with how OV treats the term "the universe" in the collective sense.
Per Paradox, there is only one Universe Branch Cluster where there is no Omnitrix (See No Watch Ben)
If the CTB only destroyed the branching space-time of Ben's Dimension, then the other dimensions/space-times (The various versions of the Null Void, Legerdomain, Rex, Dagon, etc.) should have remained in their place as clusters in the black void, but that is not the case. All but one cluster was gone.
Per Vilgax, all but one Universe Branch Cluster has an Omnitrix.
Realm of The Fabric of the Universe (Low 1-C) At least 5-D, Possibly 6-D[]
This realm and the lower dimensions were created by the Annihilargh.
Ben 10 OV - The Space Beyond depicted as a Cylindrical Structure
The higher realm contains the Infinite 5-D Sized Space Beyond depicted as a Cylindrical Structure.
Black Dimensional Space Outside of Timelines Screenshots
Note the Black Space and rainbow highlights. Do not mistaken this space with the black space contained within the Space Beyond.
White Space (Low 1-C) At least 5-D, Possibly 6-D[]
Ben 10 OV - White Nothingness
The white space of nothingness is the precursor to the Realm of The Timestream, inhabited by 5th dimensional beings.
To Clean-up[]
In-Show Material[]
- We know that Rex's Dimension is a parallel dimension to Ben's since it is in a universe cluster with an Omnitrix. Rex's Universe is not in its own separate cluster. Per the CTB aftermath, it's shared with a Ben Dimension. Paradox would not use Rex's dimension to determine if a Universe Cluster has a Omnitrix in it. He looks at the Ben dimension in the cluster.
- Since Rex's Universe is considered the same type of dimension as the various other Parallel Dimensions, it makes sense to treat them as parallel space-time dimensions within the same Universe Cluster.
- According to Doctor Holiday, there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, that are within the Universe Cluster.
- Each cluster represents a different universe timeline branch which, in turn, is a collection of space-time dimensions that make up that universe.
- This matches with how OV treats the term "the universe" collectively.
In summary, the primary source material alone supports an At least 2-C, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster, and 2-A total Clusters
Other Accepted Material[]
The accepted secondary canon of the comic was used to confirm the At least 2-B, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster.
The corroborated writer's statements are what was used to confirm the 2-A Universe Cluster theory by Holiday and support 2-A total Clusters.
To clarify, the branching Universes and parallel dimensions in those universes are two different things.
It is akin to the currently accepted MCU Cosmology:
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RoTt35/MCU_Cosmology
- [[vsforum:threads/145964]]
With Paradox, we are shown that universes are a collection of space-time dimensions, and these universes branch off to infinity.
With Holiday, we are dealing with the space-time dimensions in the same universe cluster. Rex's, Ben's, and the Null Void, in the episode, are all in the same universe cluster.
Per Paradox, there is only one Universe Branch Cluster where there is no Omnitrix (See No Watch Ben).
Rex's world that we see doesn't count, as his universe cluster already has a Ben Prime with an Omnitrix. Every universe cluster has its own Ben, Rex, Dagon, Null Void, Legerdomain, and etc. The Aftermath of the CTB supports this: all other universe clusters with a Ben were destroyed, leaving only the No Watch Cluster.
Going back to Holiday, there are theoretically infinite dimensions, like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, that are within the same Universe Cluster. This is the context the episode uses, not branching universe clusters.
In summary, the primary source material alone supports an At least 2-C, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster, and 2-A total Clusters.
The accepted secondary canon of the comic confirmed the At least 2-B, possibly 2-A Universe Cluster.
The accepted corroborated writer's statements were used to confirm the 2-A Universe Cluster theory by Holiday and support 2-A total Clusters.
In-Verse Definition of "The Universe" - 1 Parallel Branch from Every Tree (2-A)[]
Simply put, "The Universe" is the collection of parallel dimensions from the same parallel branch.
Kevin states, "I thought the universe is everything."
Null Void
The Null Void Dimension is included in the term "Universe" due to how closely associated they are with the Earth Dimension.
Kevin is seemingly surprised by seeing other universes, although he already knew about the Null Void (Grew up in it) and it being an alternate dimension. Other dimensions he knows about are Legerdomain and Dimension 12.
When Ben went to Trial for recreating the "universe," no one from the Null Void noted the reconstruction, further implying they were destroyed and recreated along with the Earth Dimension.
Servantis warned Ben that "nothing in this universe or any other will bring Ben Tennyson back." This interaction took place while still being in the Null Void. It's obvious that he referred main dimension and the Null Void combined as the universe. The Null Void in Ben 10 hasn't been treated as another universe by any character ever.
The in-verse term of "the Universe" includes the Null Void Dimension.
Gwen was searching entire universe for Kevin's car including Legerdomain, confirming that Legerdomain is inside "the universe."
The Map of Infinity is a complete map of space-time extending through seventeen dimensions. If it's talking about the ad infinitum timeline branches from one tree as a different dimension, this description wouldn't work. It does work if we say that the map is complete for 17 "trees" of space-time. After all, one of the pieces was placed in Ledgerdomain.
Summary: "The Universe" is a collection of an infinite number of parallel dimension space-times layers on top of each other.
See more about dimensions included below.
Parallel Dimensions - Layered Space-Times and Timelines - All Trees (2-A)[]
Null Void Gun /Dimensional disruptor Properties
- The device creates a space-time rift to connect to other space-times.
- Ben never knew where Alpha was sent but by listening to how the Dimensional Disruptor works (to connect parallel world's) he easily guessed that he was sent to Null Void, w/o clues which is strong evidence suggesting it to be a separate spacetime continuum.
Since the people of the Ben 10 Earth Dimension uses the Null Void Gun to travel to the Null Void, the Null Void can be considered a separate space-time.
A visual representation of the space-time threads.
Basic Branch of Earth and Null Void Space-Times.
Time is different in the Null Void.
It is stated to be an alternate dimension by Vilgax.
It is separated by a dimensional barrier from the main dimension.
Following the creation of the Null Void, the space-time of "the Universe" becomes 2-C.
Site Standards
- Being labeled as "Entire Alternate Realities" generally indicates them being called universes, but the context and semantics should preferably be specified.
- If they are outright stated to be completely separated by the barriers of time and space and either stated or shown to be reasonable in size, such as having countless galaxies, then they should indeed be universes.
- If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.
Each parallel dimension is like a tree stacked one on top of the other. It's similar to the current Kamen Rider Ryuki Cosmology
Basic Space-Time Layers of Different Dimensions
Example of interactions between the suggested different timeline Trees of the Null Void, Earth, and Ledgerdomain.
Unless you travel to a different Branch Universe, you simply travel to the space-time dimensions of your universe.
The Dimensional Tree can branch ad infinitum, and there are at least millions, possibly infinite Dimensional Trees.
Let's look at the Map of Infinity. The Map of Infinity is a complete map of space-time extending through seventeen dimensions. Anyone who has it can travel anywhere, including outside the Universe and to the Forge of Creation. If it's talking about the ad infinitum timeline branches from one tree as a different dimension, this description wouldn't work. It does work if we say that the map is complete for 17 "trees" of space-time. After all, one of the pieces was placed in Ledgerdomain. It has been said that it can bend all of space and time to a user's will.
- Earth's Multiverse
- Standard Ben 10 Multiverse Tree and Branches
- Null Void
- See Section below
- Dimension 12
- Dimension 12 is pan-dimensional where time stands still.
- Rex's Multiverse
- A different Multiverse Tree where Ben 10 doesn't exist.
- Ben said he has been to parallel dimensions "All the time," even though he has only been to legerdomain and nullvoid not any alternate timeline/universe, the dimensions Ben was talking about were clearly in universe dimensions, suggesting Rex dimension to be inside as well.
- Legerdomain
- All mana comes from Legerdomain in all dimensions of the universe.
- Laws of this world is different in the sense that ground and sky aren't parallel here.
- Dagon's World
- Gourmand Trans-Spacial Bladder Dimension
- Stated by Rook to be in "the universe"
- Other Dimensions
- At least 99 that have been enslaved by Dagon.
- Other universes exist, with different physics from ours.
- According to Doctor Holiday, there are theoretically infinite dimensions like Ben's, Rex's, and the Null Void Dimension, falling under the definition of "the universe."
- In the Comic "Hero two times," it is further supported by Ben's statement when Ben said to Rex that there are "Millions of dimensions" in "the universe."
In Summary:
- ↑ Ben 10: Omniverse - And Then There Were None