This blog will exaplain why what Bill shows to Ford about what he's going to do to the universe is correct and should be used for stats and abilities in profiles. Edit: This was accepted to be used in this thread, you may check it if you still have doubts after reading the blog.
Edit 2: We very briefly disagreed with some of the uses from the scene this blog talks about in this thread. You can check it out if you're interested (Ideally, I should have instead wrote here the reasons used to disagree with things and the reasons used to refute that).
The scene[]
From Weirdmageddon 3: Take Back The Falls
- Bill: "As it turns out, my weirdness can't escape the magical confines of this town. There's something keeping me in."
- Ford: "Incredible! Gravity Falls natural law of weirdness magnetism. I studied this years ago!"
- Bill: "And did you find a way to undo it?
- Ford: "Of course. There's a simple equation that could collapse the barrier. But I'd never tell you!"
- Bill: "Listen, Ford, if you just tell me that equation, finally your dimension will be free. (Projects himself, growing to planetary size, drawing a smiley face in the midwest United States, then takes a bite out of the Earth and flies past his friends, who are destroying other planets, then to Ford, who is standing in the middle of a galaxy while around its size) Anything will be possible. I'll remake a fun world-- a better world! A party that never ends with a host that never dies! No more restrictions! No more laws! You'd be one of us. All-powerful. Greater than anything you've imagined! And all I need is your help."
- Ford: "You're insane if you think I'll help you."
Also to note, what we the audience see is the same than what Ford sees, only in color.
Title[]
What's against it?[]
Bill oftens lies and could have done so here, either to make Ford give him what he wants or for reasons far less complicated than it (Bill's insane/he likes lying for fun/something like it).
Why would it be all be applicable?[]
Several reasons.
The argument against it is bad[]
The argument against it is already just disbelief when there is no evidence that Bill always lies or that he was lying there, we only know that he could have been lying.
In turn what he says and shows is exposition of what he could do without the limit the show put over him and expands over what he wants, things that it would little sense if he was lying about, common sense wise.
Bill doesn't lie about deals[]
All through the show and even in supplemental material Bill never lies when making his deals with others. He gives them what he told them he was going to give them, regardless of how he could use what he gains to ruin over that. I could make a list of it but I don't see the point.
It stands to reason that Bill offering Ford power & not getting killed in exchange for letting his chaos go beyond the town could would be something Bill's not lying about.
| “ | But the exchange Bill was offering to Ford wasn't the same as the deals Bill makes with people, wouldn't that mean that Bill doesn't have to keep his word? | „ |
| ~ A downplayer with YGOTAS Tristan's voice |
There's no reason to think that Ford or even Bill wouldn't turn it in a hand-shake deal in the hypothetical case of Ford agreeing to it, assuming it has to be that for Bill to keep his word, which the characters may know better than you. Bill also wasn't offering Stanley any hand shake when he was dying at the end of the series and proposing somewhat similar things, doesn't mean he meant to not give a hand shake on agreement or that he wouldn't keep his word.
Bill's lies are underwhelming[]
So you would expect Bill's words to be easily dismissible to the point of everything he says being false unless proven otherwise, thereby fitting to how using what he showed to Ford isn't legit. Or maybe only most of what Bill says isn't legit, thereby what what he showed to Ford is some possibility.
Well, Bill varies between:
- Saying the truth most of the time unless proven otherwise.
- Lying when that's proven to be the case by logic of when the canon of the show does it for you.
- Being poetic by saying things that can be seen as correct but you wouldn't word in the same way.
That's pretty pathetic.
On the side of the lies we have things like:
- "Reality is an illusion, the universe's a hologram, buy gold" The first 2 things everyone can tell that they're clearly wrong and are a reference to some fallacious theory, the last thing is a bit of a gag in the show and everything's something funny to say, which doesn't compare to exposition. We also know that he's satistic and will put people uneasy by claming or doing things, which again doesn't compare to exposition, part of the satistic things are just as well things he can actually do. It can also be seen as a joke and/or something dumb to say for others to lower their guard about him.
- When lacking a body he has portrayed himself as all-powerful and with no weaknesses but when asked about he admits "ALRIGHT, YOU GOT ME, I MIGHT HAVE OVERSTUFFED MY RESUME! HEY, THEY SAY DRESS FOR THE JOB YOU WANT, NOT THE ONE YOU HAVE! BUT JUST BECAUSE MY POWER HAS A FEW BLIND SPOTS NOW DOESN'T MEAN I'M NOT ANGLING FOR A PROMOTION". Which isn't remotely enough to dismiss exposition. That's just some mild arrogance that got him to say something wrong.
- He once said; "LITTLE TIP FROM SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK- "TRUTH" IS A TATTLETALE WITH NO FRIENDS. "TRUTH" IS YOUR ANNOYING UNCLE WHO SPOILS THE MOVIE. "TRUTH" IS A CONCEPT INVENTED BY POWERFUL LIARS TO GUILT YOU INTO GIVING THEM MORE POWER. DONT FALL FOR THE TRAP. LIE UNTIL WHAT YOU WANT TO BE TRUE BECOMES TRUE. LIE UNTIL YOU CANT REMEMBER WHATS A LIE AND WHAT ISNT. LIE UNTIL YOU ARENT LYING ANYMORE" which would imply he always lies, right? Wrong, the context of it was that he got asked about how he felt about lying on being a human to get an account on reddit, in a post where he repeatedly answered questions without lying. He lies to gain something and doesn't care about it, he may also occasionally lie for fun/humor, but he doesn't always or mostly lie, let alone when it comes to things that matter like exposition.
When it comes to poetic things we have:
- Bill telling Mabel that he sees everything while she sprays him in the eye and Bill didn't see that coming. Bill wasn't wrong, he does see pretty much everything as he can see in every place with the shape of a triangle or with a triangle drew in it across the multiverse, But seeing=/=knowing the immediate future.
- Bill liberating his home dimension and the main universe of the show is them being destroyed, but it doesn't have much relevance for this madman to see it that way, the delusion only applies to the delusion itself, not to everything else he says. He may have also changed the laws and rules of his dimension before it got destroyed, as he was aiming to do the same in the main universe in a way that would have destoryed it. In that sense freeing a dimension isn't even much poetic, a dimension not being freed from the restrictions, laws, etc. Bill doesn't want is genuinely seen by him as something tyrannical to be fixed.
It's also being severely taken for granted how they're many things Bill claimed that were pretty nuts but ended up being true in one way or another, as part of his real biliefs, consistent with his abilities, etc.
What's shown is fitting[]
It doesn't contradict anything: Bill & co. were only able to get an amp in speed and other stats after growing in size and making their magic/weirdness expand, it was an amp for them. There is no reason to believe the small Bill we see is able to do the same and common sense dictates that he shouldn't because he's smaller, his magic is restricted in 1 town smaller than the scale of the power he was going to give himself, and we don't know the properties of how they warp reality to grow themselves in size. It's common in fiction to boost stats with an increase in size on a somewhat equivalent (Or not) way to the amount of times grown.
How's fitting:
- He had already claimed to not like how time only moves forward, how cause must precede effect and how the laws of physics are, to not like rules, see them as perversions that he was going to rewrite, thus freeing the main dimension of the show, he has claimed that humans are "UNDER THE OPPRESSIVE TYRANNY OF TIME AND PUPPETEERED BY THE ARBITRARY WHIMS OF NATURAL SELECTION" and that "HUMANS ARE DESIGNED BY A BLIND AND IDIOTIC UNCARING CHAOS!", and here he is again saying that he will free the dimension, that anything will be possible, that he will "remake a fun world-- a better world!" that there will be no more restrictions and no more laws.
- Vague hyperboles about his power that hype it up in a way unfitting to how Bill is portrayed with a limited size.
- Bill had already asked Ford to join him before in a non-serious way and when needing nothing from Ford, and now he's asking him again to join him. That's pretty Lawful Evil in D&D terms, meaning that while what Bill's doing is evil, he's not being as bad as he could be about it and is giving Ford a very brief chance to save himself under Bill's own terms. This in turn fits with the nicest thing we know about Bill; he misses his home dimenson and regrets having destroyed it, being too mentally ill or in denial about it to admit it. As bad as this madman treats his friends, he at least has them with him for company and gives them part of his power, there's no reason to believe this isn't a position he isn't willing to give Ford.
- He later offers Stand power and his own galaxy in a sad attempt to escape death.
Response to Smash Bracket[]
Their Bill vs Seth video and podcast after it going over questions & stuff.
Their research and work was pretty good, the outcome was correct with the stats given to Seth if Bill was as we have him and they do agree with the general idea of what Bill shows to Ford here being true, but there are still things to comment/criticize over it. I won't go over things that don't relate to the tiny bit of the show this blog goes over that they claim and I disagree with, and likewise I'm not going over some things we as a wiki claim, they claimed otherwise and I concur with (I just don't go to try to fix Bill's profile due to lack of time).
Bill vs Seth video; 7:40 "[He's described as] having the capacity to give people their own galaxies (Shows the galaxy-sized Ford)...whatever that means."
The other video; 5:35 [...] "offers Ford a galaxy for this information."
1:39:12 "Bill is galaxy level because he can offer someone a galaxy [...]"
This is incorrect and mixes things up. Bill offered Stanley a galaxy, not Ford, the later offer doesn't recontextualized the showing he did to Ford. Imagine a powerful magical villain having once offered some buildings to a character A, and then in another instance the same villain talks to a character B about how powerful they could become and a hypothetical scene of the future shows the latter character having invaded a city, enslaved its people, leaved some background buildings in fire larger than the buildings themselves while the character B is giant-sized sitting triumphantly in some buildings; Does this mean the powerful villain offered character B those same buildings he was sitting on? After all, the villain did offer some buildings before.
The answer is no, that would be dumb. Bill offering Ford his own galaxy here is similarly dumb, Bill doesn't offer Ford his own galaxy, Bill isn't known for offering galaxies to others, the galaxy-sized Ford marvels himself over something (his size and power, I imagine) while not looking at the galaxy he would now own, if I wanted to make a vision of you with something I'm offering with I wouldn't make you look away from it while it looks like you're more into something else, and the wording Bill says about how anything will be possible and Ford will be greater than anything he could imagine affirms he could be galaxy-sized.
5:35 to 6:59
I wouldn't call bragging something foreshadowed and is in fact his motivation and what he will do, nor the thing an illusion and nor the whole thing to make himself look powerful, the main thing was "fixing" the dimension and finally having that fun he wanted to, which just so happen to show himself having powerful feats, the last thing did seem to be a powerful feat for the sake of a powerful feat, and yet also hooking Ford for how he could use hs new powers in a way that he would want to. The wording is more distrustful than what it has any reason to be, I could call any statement bragging, any reason for something a theory and so on, that would just result in the mentality getting into me and me suspending my disbelief too much, starting to missing out reasons to believe things as true I would have saw otherwise.
Then again this is unscripted and so looking at the wording is nitpicking.
7:08
They do generally agree that Bill grants his part in deals and so this takes weight of this bit, but still, over what they say here:
How Bill "lied" to Dipper is not 1 of the major plot points at all, just something of no larger significance that happened in that episode, meanwhile it's more notable how Bill does deliver his part of the deals in any other occasion, some of which being even better major plot points in the show. Unless they meant one of major plot points as in, of that 1 episode, in which case yeah.
Bill didn't lie, going at the GF wiki for the transcript of the episode and to the trivia of it over how Bill did his part of the deal informs that, well, Bill never said he was going to give Dipper the password in the deal. Here in the case the blogs over Bill shows what's to be gained if he gets free in a pretty explicit way.
9:34
It wouldn't be after he has a significant amount of time to grow in power, he says in the scene how it will happen after the barrier is undone. The other info about how he grows in power is still correct w/o placing it to also mean that Bill can't grow to a galactic size w/o first waiting significant amount of time for it. Bill also remained in GF for a pretty good amount of time before sending his minion around the world, so if one wanted to argue he couldn't do what he showed to Ford before that then sure, nothing contradicts that notion.
This not having happened is correct in the sense that battles with him should not start with him bigger than a house and thus that he loses to anything that can kill him before he puts on himself his best possible power/size, but not in him doing so being inconceivable for any battle and that we don't know if he would ever do that, in case something like that is implied.
Yes GF doesn't weaken Bill or anything, if he grows to the size of the town then he's logically not going to have planetary or galactic levels of power and MFTL+ speeds, the better stats come from the bigger size. If Bill grows to the size of the town that would just crush and kill Ford, leaving Bill there forever. Heck if what Bill showed to Ford were to have actually happened in the show they wouldn't be scaling the humans, that robot and the tiny Bill to galactic levels and MFTL+ speeds, they would only be giving Bill that much power and speed at that size, 1/2 of a planet-sized Bill wouldn't be able to do what planet-sized Bill can, let alone 1/4 of a planet-sized Bill, let alone 1/8 of a planet-sized Bill, let alone town-sized Bill, let alone the Bill at the size he showed being against humans.
36:10
Some of this is true, as in Bill's exact travel speed, his friends already being around planets before Bill got there, the planets being too close, and the time it took Ford to become galaxy-sized/Bill to have turned him that big is all too unnindicative and nothing that should be calc'd. But Bill and Ford's size, their general movements, what Bill did to the planet, what his friends were doing to other planets in a vacuum, and the general idea that everything that happened fast can happen "fast", is very much true.