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  • Well first thing's first. Raiden is hypersonic:http://www.screwattack.com/news/protos-calculation-compilation-part-2

    This scales to every person Raiden has faced, which is ALOT of people. And they in turn have fought other MK characters. This overall pretty much boosts almost every MK character (except Mokap XD )

    And finally, for the big icing on the cake, Shang Tsung is island level:http://i.imgur.com/IBjiDrN.png

    In the case that most people need context, here goes. Shang Tsung's island is held together by Shang Tsung's magic. Shaolin Monks showed that Shang Tsung can willfully take this away and let the island fall apart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5KrAohurTMk#t=196

    Considering, Shang Tsung can hold an entire island together without it showing to be at all strenuous on Shang Tsung's abilities, it can be easily assumed that he has the power to destroy it as well.

    This also scales to the many other people that have beaten Shang Tsung.

    Opinions?

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    • The speed upgrade would require Raiden shown as being able to run and move at the same speed as he flies, as lots of fictions make a distinction between the two.

      Also, was this not unrestricted Shang Tsung, and did the other fighters canonically defeat him in this state?

      In addition, do they themselves have feats of this level, or was it PIS?

      Another possibility is also that Shang is not nearly as powerful physically as he is through magic, so it wouldn't take nearly as much power to overcome him in person.

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    • Well he's able to time his attacks while flying during his X Ray. This culd be an indication that he fight this fast as well. NTM, one of Raiden's most well known moves has him flying, but is blockable.

      The whole point of the scan is that it shows that Shang Tsung didn't really need to be unrestricted to do this. Shang Tsung's island has been standing during the tournaments for thousands of years, while he was restricted.

      It could be PIS, but many of the people who've beaten Shang Tsung have also beaten people above him, like Sonya beating Quan Chi and Johnny beating Shinnok.

      Magic in the MK universe is treated as more of a spiritual energy than something completely different from their physical feats. Like for example, in MK, it's been shown that the beings with the most magical power tend to be the most powerful stat wise(Quan Chi, Shinnok, Raiden, and Shang Tsung)The last piece of evidence I have to back up this claim is that souls are also used as a means of highly boosting a character's powers (Shao Kahn is a main example of this. He's one of the most powerful characters. This can be largely attributed to the fact that Shao Kahn has consumed the souls of almost everyone in every realm he's conquered through an MK tournament for thousands of years. This is the best argument toward magic in MK being more of an energy thing, than a completely non-physical thing.)

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    • Hmm. Let's wait to see what other people think.

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    • Alrighty-o

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    • Antvasima
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    • Alright. Which comic was this? I know the games to a tee, but i'm unfamiliar with the comics save for the MKX one.

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote:
      Alright. Which comic was this? I know the games to a tee, but i'm unfamiliar with the comics save for the MKX one.

      I'm pretty sure this is one of those really old rare ones from way back when.

      And before I get that inevitable statement (I foresaw the argument) that this is before the timeline change, nothing really suggests that because it's them before the timeline changes that their power really changes. Unlike other series that have to have other pages because of retcons, due to being completely alternate universes with different backstories with different abilities, this isn't the case with MK. Everyone keeps their same powers and backstories.

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    • Actually the time reverse did make a lot of the characters(save for maybe Shao Kahn and Sindel) weaker than before Raiden cheated time.

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    • Who?

      It's just that I don't think it makes sense because nothing should be there to suggest any characters get weaker, considering this is just a timeline change. If anything would suggest characters get weaker, it's the lack of feats, due to there being only being two games after the reboot, with one of them being a different version of the first three games that just kills everyone off #triggered

      (BTW you also forgot to add Nightwolf in that list of characters who got buffed ( : )

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    • Well it is 1 AM so a few things might slip my mind but think about it. Ermac goes from being able to easily hold his own against multiple fighters in Deception to jobbing to Kurtis Stryker in MK9. Mileena goes from dangerous seductress and legit threat straight to pure fanservice(or disservice from your P.O.V.) with the brain of a child, and is offed by D'Vorah, Raiden goes from badass Thunder God, capable of pulling at least city-block attacks when restricted, to jobbing to Shao Kahn at the end of MK9(even with the Elder Gods fueling him Kahn still proved to be a pain in the ass), hell even Kahn himself wasn't immune. He goes from planetary threat, to harbinger of Armageddon, and boom! Timeskip! Now he loses to Liu Kang again(i call PIS though), and even though he easily redeemed that by proving it was a fluke when he held his own against a god-powered Raiden, even laughing off a direct shot from them(a far cry from falling to Kang's flame fist), he still was nowhere near as strong as he was pre retcon.

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    • Yeah I ain't gonna lie. MK9 did seem like one huge inconsistency. But my best explanation for it was always that it's possible that they were weaker in the first few games and became stronger later in the original timeline.(Unless of course, I'm wrong, which I may probably be)

      But anyway I'd like to get back on topic concerning the stats and such.

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    • Alright. Might havta go insomnia tonight....

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    • So is it possible that the profiles can still be changed to island level considering most of them are composites?

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    • Antvasima
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    • I'm really iffy on this....you'd have to do a ridiculous amount of chain reaction powerscaling.....

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    • But you're okay with the hypersonic thing right? No objections there?

      Yeah. But it wouldn't be bad because like I said, many of the people who fought and beat Shang Tsung also beat people above him.

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    • Hmm....any more thoughts on this? If not, i can go all night lol.

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    • Wait. Are you talking to me or the other people on this site? If me, then nah I think I've said all I can on the matter so far.

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    • Was referring to other members. Anyway, i am a supporter of the franchise(you can see my name on the page), but scaling virtually everyone to island level really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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    • Well apparently Shang Tsung being able to destroy the island was originally put at small city level though I never asked why. If there's a good enough reason, it could water down the feat to that level.

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    • I still can't see pulling off a chain reaction powerscale like that.

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    • I don't really even think it's that much of a chain reaction. The only people who it'd translate to are Liu Kang, Sonya, Jax, Kitana, then the high tiers above Shang Tsung.

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    • You know what? Maybe i'm being a bit too conservative. Let's see what other members have to say.

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    • Hmmm. Not really sure on making them all Island Level, given the number of power-scaling assumptions and whatnot, but Hypersonic MK seems perfectly agreeable to me.

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    • Now see i can agree with that...

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    • Like I said though the scaling would really hardly affect anyone except a few regular combatants and the three people above Shang Tsung.(Shinnok, Quan Chi, and Raiden)

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    • Soooooooo....Where are we on this now? I see you guys fully agree with me on the hypersonic thing, but what about the island level boosts for some characters?

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    • Preferably.....imma leave that up to the other guys.

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    • Well, from my experiences with Mortal Kombat, who can beat who seems to very from game to game, to be honest, and this seems more of an out-of-combat, passive spell that continually keeps it together, more than it is a direct energy output. I'd accept it if it were only that issue... but then there's also that it's sort of a giant outlier, form what I can make of it.

      I don't know, maybe there's something I'm missing here.

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    • Magic in MK isn't like most other fictional magics though, where characters have multiple different spells to use. It all seems to stem from the same magic they use to fight (Raiden's lightning being both a weapon and a healing ability proves this)

      It's also not really an outlier because the most powerful magical showings in MK were about city level so it'd really only be a jump by two tiers.

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    • 2 tiers is somewhat of a considerable jump.

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    • Eh, it isn't nearly as bad as some characters though (looks at Ness...)

      But jokes aside, I don't think it's too bad.

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    • Sooooo. Any verdicts?

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    • Eh....if others agree, i don't oppose i guess...

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    • Thanks Skodwarde the Almighty!!!

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    • Antvasima
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    • Anyway, back to the general topic, i don't oppose this, i'm just rather conservative on it.

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    • I can see why you'd be. I personally think Sonya being on the same level as some of the most powerful Street Fighter characters is badass, but I can see why it'd leave a stale taste in your mouth.

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    • Antvasima
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    • Well, I'm OK with Hypersonic Raiden and stuff, but Island-level seems to be a little of a stretch. Possible, but still, a bit of a stretch.

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    • Antvasima
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    • Alrighty....i think everyone's exhausted their opinions...

      Now i think we should wait for a mod to make the final call i guess.

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    • Adding in, i think full power Blaze should be bumped to multi planet considering when Shao Kahn beat him(it originally was Taven but MK9 kinda handwaved that when they showed Kahn glowing orange...plus NRS seems to have disdain for most post MK3 characters....which sucks), he was in a position to merge/destroy all the realms.

      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Shao_Kahn

      (I discussed this already and the same conditions should apply to Blaze)

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    • Antvasima
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    • Now here's something y'all are gonna disagree with....

      I firmly believe Liu Kang's victories over Kahn are PIS.

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    • I think everyone thinks that. While it is canon PIS that's technically happened more than once, I do agree it's insane he could ever accomplish it. 

      But I'm also pretty sure most people attribute it to him getting too cocky.

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    • HomestuckLover1 wrote: I think everyone thinks that. While it is canon PIS that's technically happened more than once, I do agree it's insane he could ever accomplish it. 

      But I'm also pretty sure most people attribute it to him getting too cocky.


      This is due to the fact that...

      Starting with the original timeline. Shang Tsung is afraid of MK2 Kahn. Kang defeats Kahn in MK2. Kahn becomes a planetary threat in MK3, and Mr. Walking Plot Device beats Kahn again. Fast forward to Deadly Alliance. Kang gets killed by both Tsung and Quan Chi. Tsung is weaker than MK2 Kahn and even with both of em, they're still VERY inferior to MK3 Kahn.


      Rebooted Timeline: Liu Kang defeats Shao Kahn via his flame fist. Chapters later, Raiden kills Liu Kang by accident. Then comes Kahn, no more amped than before(Sindel received Tsung's power), curbstomping Raiden, literally no selling an attack from all the Elder Gods which was directed close to where he recieved the flame fist, and it took all of em possessing Raiden to take Kahn out.

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    • Yup that's the bare definition of walking PIS, that Liu Kang.

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    • So in case any mod doesn't want to go through this (sorta) mess to see if we reached a verdict, we did.

      Hypersonic/Island level MK characters get a pass.

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    • If the series mostly relies on PIS, we should probably go by individual feats to scale the characters. There are llenty of franchises for which powerscaling is generally ignkred by the writers.

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    • Also, please stick to the topic. Much of this thread has not done so.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      If the series mostly relies on PIS, we should probably go by individual feats to scale the characters. There are llenty of franchises for which powerscaling is generally ignkred by the writers.

      No what we were talking about bein PIS was Liu Kang beating Shao Kahn, not Liu Kang beating Shang Tsung. We were also kind of getting off topic talking about that too.

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    • So the island level/hypersonic stuff still stands. It's just we were talking about how inconsistent they were with Liu Kang.

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    • Well, the issue is that if much of the plot relies on PIS and Game Mechanics, with characters of vastly different power level somehow fighting roughly evenly against each other anyway, it seems far more reliable to go by individual feats than powerscaling.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      Well, the issue is that if much of the plot relies on PIS and Game Mechanics, with characters of vastly different power level somehow fighting roughly evenly against each other anyway, it seems far more reliable to go by individual feats than powerscaling.

      The only parts that were really inconsistent or considerable PIS were things involving Liu Kang. Everything else in the series has been pretty much consistent.

      Even then there are explanations for the inconsistencies with Liu Kang, such as that Shao Kahn got extremely cocky and Liu Kang was ganged up on and had to fight two powerful sorcerers all on his own.

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    • Yeah i say any tier Liu Kang has powerscaling him due to Shao Kahn should be removed due to PIS and extreme inconsistencies.

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote:
      Yeah i say any tier Liu Kang has powerscaling him due to Shao Kahn should be removed due to PIS and extreme inconsistencies.

      Yeah, but of course, this still means Liu Kang should scale to Shang Tsung, due to beating him multiple times.

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    • HomestuckLover1 wrote:

      Skodwarde The Almighty wrote:
      Yeah i say any tier Liu Kang has powerscaling him due to Shao Kahn should be removed due to PIS and extreme inconsistencies.

      Yeah, but of course, this still means Liu Kang should scale to Shang Tsung, due to beating him multiple times.

      I can agree on that. Tsung is kind of a jobber.

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    • Double agree.

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    • Mortal Kombat, as much as i love it, has one of the wonkiest plots of any game.

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    • Well, I would still like to get input from more people than you two, and do not appreciate any further off-topic thread derailment. It forces me to spend considerable time removing posts.

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    • Antvasima
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    • I guess Liu Kang, at least, could scale to Tsung.

      When I said outlier earlier, though, I was referring more to the series as a whole. Most of the characters in the cast aren't city level, most are more like, wall to city block level last I checked.

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    • Hmm, and yet, despite being anywhere from wall to planet level, the MK characters constantly fight each other due to game mechanics. This makes them difficult to gauge accurately.

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    • Exactly. Especially with 9 and X where the heroes took turns in each chapter beating the opposition.

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    • Perhaps we should strictly go by individual feats to gauge them then?

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    • But some of the cast like Sonya and Jax constantly fight people on Shang Tsung's level and have even beaten people above his level.

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    • That can be explained by Game Mechanics

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    • yea Mortal Kombat characters beat whoever just because of what happens in a story like how Sub Zero defeated Scorpion in MK 9 then gets defeated by scorpion in MK 10

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    • For example, it's a main line of the plot of MKX that Johnny beats Shinnok, someone far above Shang Tsung.

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    • Again, I don't know. If Johnny is generally shown to have a far lower power level than Shinnok, it can probably be explained as Plot Induced Stupidity.

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    • Also, to say that it should be an outlier because they don't have any feats to back it up is the same thing as saying that Goku isn't solar system level because he's never actually destroyed a solar system. They all fought people on those scales multiple times therefore they scale.

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    • Antvasima wrote: That can be explained by Game Mechanics

      It's not game mechanics because it helps the plot develop further.

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    • Darkness552 wrote: yea Mortal Kombat characters beat whoever just because of what happens in a story like how Sub Zero defeated Scorpion in MK 9 then gets defeated by scorpion in MK 10

      Sub Zero and Scorpion are generally referred as equals. Plus, Sub Zero didn't want to fight Scorpion in MKX.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Again, I don't know. If Johnny is generally shown to have a far lower power level than Shinnok, it can probably be explained as Plot Induced Stupidity.

      Actually, Johnny's powers have been hinted at to be one of the most powerful abilities in the MK universe.

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    • Hmm, the difference is that Dragon Ball actually explicitly heavily relies on power levels, not Plot Induced Stupidity or Game Mechanics. According to your logic, all of the MK characters should scale to planet level, despite most of them being displayed as much lower in scale. Still, I am uncertain regarding this issue.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Hmm, the difference is that Dragon Ball actually explicitly heavily relies on power levels. According to your logic, all of the MK characters should scale to planet level, despite most of them bejng displayed as much lower in scale.

      That's not how it is at all. It's impossible to write it off as an outlier when people like Sonya and Kitana fight people on Shang Tsung's level (As well as Shang Tsung) constantly. That's the point I'm trying to move forward.

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    • I am still uncertain. You can invite the other administrators and moderators to this thread to see what they think regarding the issue?

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    • Antvasima wrote: not Plot Induced Stupidity or Game Mechanics.

      Except none of it is involving game mechanics, and it isn't plot induced stupidity because it wouldn't have been the first time those characters have fought on that level.

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    • Personally i don't think such a mass powerscale is a good idea.

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    • Again, we are going around in circles. I am not allowing such a massive change without seeing input from several more staff members. You are free to invite them to contribute, but until then nothing will happen.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Again, we are going around in circles. I am not allowing such a massive change without hesaing input from several more staff members. You are free to invite them to contribute, but until then nothing will happen.

      How do I invite them?

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    • Via this page. However, SeiryuShin, Polar-kun, and Rocks75 are almost inactive, and DarkLK should only be disturbed for specific matters that relate to his expertise.

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    • Thank you

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    • Personally i don't think such a mass powerscale is a good idea.

      Agree.

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    • as ive said as well due to how the Mortal Kombat games progress i do not agree with massive powerscale as well

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    • It's not really much of a massive powerscale though. It only applies to about 5 people and the people above Shang Tsung.

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    • Also no matter what this would have to apply to the people above Shang Tsung too who have in fact been beaten by the 5 characters I mentioned.

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    • HomestuckLover1 wrote: It's not really much of a massive powerscale though. It only applies to about 5 people and the people above Shang Tsung.

      That's still considerably high.

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    • Yea but If the power scaling applys to those characters it would in turn have to powerscale to any and every character who fought them Which is a massive powerscale

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    • I don´t know MK, but lets speak generally about the feats in question.
      First about the Hypersonic speed:
      From the thread you listed you mean the Raiden x-ray calc I assume?
      Well that calc is wrong. Between the ingame and the cutscene time actually did pass, which means the timeframe is actually longer than assumed in the calc. That is easily proven.
      The other character is punched up into the air and reaches its peak in the scene. Lets say this peak is about 100m above the clouds so about 13 kilometers into the air.
      If the flight path is supposed to have its peak there we can simply use this calculator to figure the timeframe out. The launch velocity is in this case 505 m/s and the peak is reached after 51 seconds. So since raiden didn´t reach the peak before the other character he did need at least 51 seconds to reach it.

      13000m in 51 seconds is 254.9 m/s or Mach 0.74

      The Island thing:

      First at least I don´t even know how large the island is. Not every Island is as large as assumed for island level. To that comes that holding an island together doesn´t actually need as much energy as destroying an island. You would need to somehow quantify the energy required to hold the island together for it to get accepted (at least by me), but I don´t know how that could be done.

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    • Well the pits are just one part of the island so that should give you an idea of how big it is. It carries multiple mountains, Goro's lair , Shag Tsung's temple, and even a volcanoe so I think it qualifies as a pretty big island.

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    • I don't know too much about the hypersonic calc because I didn't do it. That would be ClassicGameGuys who calced it so Ill probably try to contact him and ask how he got these numbers.

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    • I, like many others, am uneasy with a mass powerscale. However, individual updates seem fine.

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    • Individual updates?

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    • As in, a calc or feat that affects one person should be fine when used to upgrade them, but not used to upgrade everybody.

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    • What about the people obviously above him like Shao Kahn or the people who've beaten him regularly?

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    • Repeated instances or people who are obviously above him should be fine.

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    • Shao Kahn has individual planet level feats as far as I am aware.

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    • One more question. What about the people who've also regularly beat the people above him? That only really means a few more people.

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    • Well, that seems pretty direct, so I suppose that should be fine.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Shao Kahn has individual planet level feats as far as I am aware.

      Those are unrestricted though. I'm talking restricted.

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    • Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot wrote: Well, that seems pretty direct, so I suppose that should be fine.

      Well that's essentially what I was going for in the first place.

      I never wanted a mass powerscale. That'd literally mean Bo Rai Cho was island level. As cool as that sounds, it's ridiculous XD.

      I still have to ask ClassicGameGuys about his calc and see what he has to say about the argument.

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    • So does anyone else agree with Azathoth's idea?

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    • HomestuckLover1 wrote:
      So does anyone else agree with Azathoth's idea?

      I agr-...wait a minute.

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    • Lol agree-ception.

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    • One side of me is saying "You're a supporter of the series, go with it!"

      The other is saying "Wait it out."

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    • Well, I am still uncertain, but will go along if the other staff members agree. However, Shang Tsung's "island" feat is extremely suspicious, given that this would require a mass far larger than Mount Everest. Having a few lairs on it would likely just qualify it as City level at best.

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    • Also, did you ask for input from the moderators as well?

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    • I'm currently waiting to see if they'll get a notification because they already commented on here.

      If you look at the Pit stage in MK9 which is part of the island, you can see it carries multiple mountains and even a large volcanoe.

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    • Or should I go and ask them to come back?

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    • I mean that you only seem to have asked the active admins to offer input, not the moderators. They are staff members as well.

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    • Oh ok. I see your point. I'll do that now.

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    • Hmm. To be honest i can't give a solid answer cause for one thing, i never once thought of characters like Raiden being Hypersonic of possibly above. Another is that i just don't really care much to know about how strong these guys are(except for maybe Shao Khan. I kno he's a tough SoB for quite a while but man i did not think he'd be powrful enough to be in the Tier 5 zone).

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    • Well, how fast would the island fly apart if it weren't being held together? Depending on how fast that was, it might be quite different from Island Level. Also, how big was the island? Can we get a scan of the island itself? These things seem necessary to properly quantify the feat in question, here.

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    • Well, the island sinking left enough time for Liu Kang and Kung Lao to escape but not without them having to kill some people along the way, so probably as a best estimation it took about 10-15 minutes considering they were easily killing anyone who got in their way.

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    • @HomestuckLover 

      do you have a scan, picture or something of the Shang Tsung's island

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    • Shang_tsung_palace_view.png

      I thought I wouldn't find a picture but here it is! Dear God it's bigger than I thought. It takes up a large part of Netherrealm's globe (Note: Most "realms" in MK take place in different dimensions, but are planets... Ya I know that's confusing as hell but bare with me here.)

      Also I checked how long it could have taken them to get off the island, and it actually took at best 40-45 minutes or so.

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    • Nice.

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    • I think considering how long it took to destroy it, that it pushes it back to about large island level.

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    • As for why I think that, maybe my logic on this is wrong, but what I did is find out 1/40 the size of a small country.

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    • So who do you think should be pushed to this level?

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    • You will need some sort of pixel scaling calculation of the size or similar.

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    • Liu Kang certainly, Sonya for making sure Quan Chi never feels like a man again (hehe), Jax for may I just say, completely one shotting Quan Chi (It's never his day), and lastly Johnny for beating skeleton hands (Shinnok).

      As for what Quan Chi has to do with this, he's superior to Shang Tsung.

      And of course this scaling goes to the people above Shang Tsung.

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    • Antvasima wrote: You will need some sort of pixel scaling calculation of the size or similar.

      Working on that now.

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    • Wish i was a math genius.....

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote: Wish i was a math genius.....

      Oh trust me. I'm not either. I probably shouldn't even be calcing it, but I gotta learn somehow right?

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    • Did it!!! Although I might be wrong on some parts, I think my overall conclusion is right. Considering the idea that realms in MK are considered kinda equal in size, I assumed that Netherrealm must be around the same size as Earth. So I pixel scaled the island to the radius of the globe since the end point of the island luckily hit around the surface. With all of that considered and a lot o' math, I got that the size of the island is 2,454 miles long and 673 miles wide!

      But the last thing I did was take into account that it took 40-45 minutes for the island to sink, so maybe this is wrong (probs very wrong) but I did 2,454/40 which equals 61 miles long and 673/40 which equals 17 miles wide for an immediate output so small city level. Again, I might be very wrong on this part so don't take it too seriously.

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    • So in case you guys are wondering, the island level feat actually translates to the people who fought Shang Tsung and above as small city level.

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    • In the words of Kung Lao.

      "I have no quarrel with this."

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    • I... guess. Still not entirely sure, but I believe similar feats have turned up similar results in the past regarding islands, so it sounds plausible, and it's not really an outlier, so... Small City, Hypersonic MK top tiers I suppose.

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote: In the words of Kung Lao.

      "I have no quarrel with this."

      Kung Lao apparently has no quarrel with anyone, yet he seems to cut their heads off anyway...

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    • sorry i don't have time to read al lof this, but shang tsung's island is pretty small for an island


      I doubt you'd get above ~city level for its destruction, if that

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    • SeiryuShin wrote: sorry i don't have time to read al lof this, but shang tsung's island is pretty small for an island


      I doubt you'd get above ~city level for its destruction, if that

      I ended up getting city level anyway so it's all good bruh.

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    • Soooo, anyone got any verdicts for me? Shall small city level MK characters stay? I'm still currently waiting for ClassicGameGuys to get back to me regarding his hypersonic calc, so until then we should probably just focus on the island destroying feat.

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    • Restricted Kahn and Liu Kang would fit that category i guess.

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    • Also some people who aren't Liu Kang would get a boost, so that's great too.

      I don't know about you, but small city level Sonya is just the coolest thing.

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    • Well, few people would scale to this, anyways.

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    • Yeah. So listing it off, the people who scale to this are:

      .Sonya

      .Johnny

      .Liu Kang

      .Jax

      .Probably Kitana (She beat Shang Tsung but it's very likely he wanted her to so I probably wouldn't try to scale this)

      .Everyone above Shang Tsung

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    • I'd look into the circumstances surrounding each victory/ies to be sure nothing special was able to help make those victories come about.

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    • All right then. Unless some of the other staff members have objections, I suppose that Small City level might be acceptable. However, as DontTalk said, Raiden's feat does not appear to be Hypersonic, only sub-sonic+, so it is invalid.

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    • Well this was fun.

      I'm probably done in this thread.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      All right then. Unless some of the other staff members have objections, I suppose that Small City level might be acceptable. However, as DontTalk said, Raiden's feat does not appear to be Hypersonic, only sub-sonic+, so it is invalid.

      Thank you. This thread was alot of fun.

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    • ThePerpetual wrote:
      I'd look into the circumstances surrounding each victory/ies to be sure nothing special was able to help make those victories come about.

      I've looked through them all, and the only one questionable was Kitana's victory becasue it's possible Shang Tsung may have wanted  her to win.

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    • .....Sooooo anyone else got a final opinion on this so I can finally put this thread to an end?

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    • I don't mind.

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    • I already know you don't object, it's just I need more staff members to agree before I can put this to an end.

      Edit: Soooooo...Should I change it? I'm not sure. I still haven't gotten any other verdicts yet.

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    • Hey Antvasima, should I just change their stats or should I wait for a response?

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    • Let's wait until we get some responses.

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    • Okay. Sorry bout that.

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    • No problem. This might take a few days.

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    • I don't think sonya should scale to this imo, neither should Jax Pre MKX (either that or Sindel was massively weakened from losing the souls Shang Tsung had absorbed), which i think is plausible)


      Johnny should only get it with green energy mojo

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    • Also fairly certain liu kang only beat restricted shang tsung but with the timeline mess who knows anymore

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    • The whole point of the scan is that it shows Shang Tsung could have done this in his restricted form.

      Sonya scales to it for beating and living through attacks by stronger people than Shang Tsung. Same deal with Jax.

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    • Sindel was nerfed and Jax was still below Ermac until the rematch (a nerfed Ermac at that)


      still no reason Sonya should be scaled to this, she has less reasoning for it than Johnny does.

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    • also not seeing any scan showing this was restricted shang tsung

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    • The whole point is that during MK tournaments and such Shang Tsung's power is heavily restricted. The tournaments have been taking place on his island for thousands of years while Shang Tsung still manages to keep it holding. Therefore, it's likely he could have still destroyed it even in his restricted form.

      What does Sindel have to do with this? And she wasn't nerfed. MK9 buffed her to high hell, because she was carrying all of Shang Tsung's power plus her own.

      Sonya beat Quan Chi effortlessly. Quan Chi is superior to Shang Tsung. Even then, if you don't think that's enough, she beat both Kitana and Jade on her own. While Kitana's victory over Shang Tsung is mildly suspicious, she still would have been killed by Shang Tsung, had she not pummeled the guy. And Jade managed to beat Baraka, then moments later she beat Sheeva, then moments later she beat Mileena, then right after that she beat Smoke. Jade is also very capable.

      While maybe the Jade part doesn't really prove anything, her beating Kitana does.

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    • I'm still a bit unsure of the Shang Tsung thing. Isn't it possible that even if this is only his restricted power holding the island realm togther, the majority of his power is being used to do that while the rest is put into fighting? I don't know how heavily that would drain his energy. It also depends on if he consciously holds the island together or if it's just an automatic process.

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    • I agree with Azathoth.

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    • This still going on?

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    • Nothing against MK, but the mass powerscale is a bad idea.

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    • i don't know about the powerscaling, but the individual stat updates for the characters who have produced said feat are ok...

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    • Man that powerscaling tho. From what Illumanitati said though, i think that the characters who did said feats that were mentioned above should defintely get the upgrade.

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    • i think individual stats would be better because powerscaling would be bad due to MK having their fights being inconsistent as anyone can beat anyone in the series 

      as for restricted shang tsung being small city level idk about that as it does seem reasonable if he was doing it with his power and there was nothing helping him or suggesting something was helping him

      but of course if it is never said or implied he was restricted then no there should be no upgrade

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    • Minor point, the restricted/unrestricted thing only really seems to work for guys like Kahn, Raiden, Shinnok, Onaga....etc....


      It doesn't work for the great Hsu Hao sadly.

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    • I am obviously fine with upgrading characters that performed any specific feats.

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    • Nothing against MK, but the mass powerscale is a bad idea.

      Agree.

      P.S. I, personally, against mass powerscaling in any verse, not only in MK.

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    • @CrossverseCrisis Illumanitati? really?  heh... that gave me a laugh though...

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    • Okay, since everybody seems to agree about this, I think that you can only upgrade characters that performed specific feats.

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    • Seems about right. Damn this thread went long.

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    • Okay I guess I can live with that. But what about the people obviously above Shang Tsung, like Shao Kahn, Quan Chi, Raiden, and Shinnok?

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    • Are they explicitly stated to be above Shang Tsung and didn't just beat him because of game mechanics?

      Also, if there's doubt over the size of the island, you should proabably ask the calcing group to try and get a solid number for it rather than just slap a rating on it.

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    • Unclechairman wrote: Are they explicitly stated to be above Shang Tsung and didn't just beat him because of game mechanics?

      Also, if there's doubt over the size of the island, you should proabably ask the calcing group to try and get a solid number for it rather than just slap a rating on it.

      Well Liu Kang has beaten him so many times it's kind of obvious. Quan Chi is above him because he beat him, Shao Kahn is above him because he casually killed him, Raiden is above him because he's up there with Shao Kahn, and Shinnok is a fallen elder god who is above Quan Chi.

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    • ^^above is again a mass powerscale without context if those characters are above him (although shao kahn, raiden, shinnok, onaga should be above him, unsure about Quan Chi)

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    • I don't really know anything about Mortal Kombat but I do agree that mass powerscaling is a bad idea, as that might lead to some characters stats getting inflated to levels that they are not really at, and I more or less think that we should only upgrade characters that perform specific feats.

      Some powerscaling wouldn't be that bad through, if there is enough proof that the characters in question can be powerscaled. 

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    • Well, it should be obvious Liu Kang, Raiden, Quan Chi, Shinnok, and Shao Kahn powerscale due to being a higher tier in the MK Universe.

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    • Have you asked the calc group to calc Shang Tsung's feat yet? You can do so in this thread. I recommend you do so, since there is doubt over the size of the island in question, and the only alternative is slapping a tier on it without any other basis.

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    • Thing is, I don't really think that picture works because Shang Tsung's island has ALOT of mountains, a huge temple, a volcano, and an underground lair. In the picture however, the island is treated as flat, with Shang Tsung's temple taking up most of the space, when it should be taking up a very small fraction.

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    • So the island is not to scale in that picture? Well, this complicates things. Do you have any other pictures of Shang Tsung's island that might be to scale. Granted, if it has mountains and volcanoes on it, that would seem to suggest that the island is indeed island-sized, warranting actual Island level, unless the mountains and volcano are tiny as well. I'm not sure what SeiryuShin was basing his reasoning on; if he or someone else could clarify, that would help.

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    • I could always ask ProtoDude when he's done with whatever he's doing i guess....

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote: I could always ask ProtoDude when he's done with whatever he's doing i guess....

      I wouldn't get my hopes up with that. Proto's been busy with schooling lately and hasn't been online for a while.

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    • Unclechairman wrote: So the island is not to scale in that picture? Well, this complicates things. Do you have any other pictures of Shang Tsung's island that might be to scale. Granted, if it has mountains and volcanoes on it, that would seem to suggest that the island is indeed island-sized, warranting actual Island level, unless the mountains and volcano are tiny as well. I'm not sure what SeiryuShin was basing his reasoning on; if he or someone else could clarify, that would help.

      http://www.mksecrets.net/images/mk9/arena06.jpg

      MK9's Pits give us a pretty good idea. Also keep in mind when looking at the picture that there's also a large cavern below them, making the mountains even larger.

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    • Fudge. Proto's the only guy i know who can whip out a calc like magic.

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote: Fudge. Proto's the only guy i know who can whip out a calc like magic.

      True.

      You do know that ClassicGameGuys and Proto are the same person though right?

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    • I am aware. I just don't contact him through this Wiki.

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    • Ah, I was just making sure

      Yeah I don't really chat with him here either.

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    • Shao Khan and Raiden are most definitely above Shang Tsung, Shao Khan is even seen ripping his souls out like they're nothing when he's done with him


      Quan Chi is considered the superior sorcerer in verse and typically beats him when they go head to head


      Shinnok nearly stalemated unrestricted Raiden so he has better going for him


      it's others scaling to this i'm shaky about

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    • I'd add Onaga to that list, but nothing further.

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    • That's because Onaga > Kahn, right?

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    • Pre Deception, yes.

      Kahn>Onaga during MK Armageddon.

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    • I don't know. Liu Kang still seems like he should be up there. He is the guy who has constantly defeated Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn.

      (On a side note is anyone else a little happy that Liu Kang is being replaced by Cassie? I never really liked the guy.)

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    • While i can let Kang beating Tsung slide, him beating Kahn is borderline PIS imo.....except maybe the MK2 victory.

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    • Skodwarde The Almighty wrote: While i can let Kang beating Tsung slide, him beating Kahn is borderline PIS imo.....except maybe the MK2 victory.

      Eh, I think the reason that Liu Kang's fights seem like PIS is because he never has the crazy feats everyone else has, yet he was treated as the main hero for a while.

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    • ...You guys remember when Liu Kang was a zombie?...

      Yeaaaaahh...

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    • Hey. Zombie Liu was kinda cool.

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    • Zombies are cool.

      Liu Kang is cool.

      Putting both together is not exactly a good thing.

      Maybe if it had been like...Cage.

      Or Kano. Cyborg Zombie Assassin.

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    • So we're in agreement that only Shang Tsung and the people above him get scaled to this right?

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    • A FANDOM user
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