• Reppuzan
    Reppuzan closed this thread because:
    Topic concluded.
    19:54, January 22, 2017

    This may apply to some characters in general.

    The English translation of the databook says that Ichigo is fast like-lightning.  [1]

    However, it was not accepted for been unquantifiable. I understand that much.

    But that was an error translation. 

    The raw Japanese databook says, "that Ichigo is fast as lightning" [2]

    Which means Ichigo is Mach 289 in SS Arc onwards. Lieutenants maybe Mach 29 according to the previous calc, but not captains as shown by most of the elders that never train after the timeskip, but that is another discussion for another thread all together. 

    Can Gin Mach 500 debunks this? No.

    Even if Gin didn't lie to Ichigo about his Bankai speed, it was still Mach 500. Ichigo couldn't had match him with Mach 289 as low-ball. 

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    • I'm defiantly a supporter of this. It would fix a lot of inconsistencies in Bleach and you have a good example to back it up

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    • Well, it would be better if someone can translate the raws? From what I remember, his speed was defined "Like lightning speed" which is not a viable upgrade 

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    • Could someone give me a link to the Mach 29 calc?

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    • Hmm, I thought lightning would be faster than Mach 289. Though I'm not sure about this.

      Also, you could ask on the Translations Request thread to see if someone would have the time to help out.


      What inconsistencies do you mean? If you're referring to them suddenly jumping to Massively Hypersonic+ without any training after the timeskip, it doesn't really matter as that's how fiction works in general.

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    • The scan clearly says "fast as lightning" not fast "like" lightning. "Like" would be a loose translation.

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    • Thanks @Sera for the help.

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    • Thank you for the help @Sera.

      Now I have one foot each on two sides here.

      Now on the one hand, I'm not sure if a mere statement in a data book such as "fast as lightning" is enough to warrant an upgrade. While it is true that it is not as flowery and hyperbolic to the extent that statements in the Naruto data books and Fairy Tail editor statements are, it still might not be hard enough evidence.

      But on the other hand, it does make sense considering the MHS to MHS+ ratings for post-time-skip characters, including those who are far out of their physical prime (and thus should not have improved) and at least two who might actually be weaker.

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    • At this point is the only evidence that will fix the inconsistency speed calcs in the Bleach pre-time skip.

      I'm doing more research on the new untranslated databook. It appears to confirmed that Gin lied to Aizen and not Ichigo. It also confirmed (if it's a correct translation indeed) that Gin Bankai is in fact Mach 500 (What he told Ichigo was true) and that the contraction/lenght speed of one of the techniques he use on Ichigo doubles that speed which would put Gin at Mach 1000.

      This will be for another thread, but here is the evidence: [1], [2]  

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    • I'm with Soldier Blue on his first point. Though, it does make sense if the characters are MHS before the timeskip since almost all of them are MHS+ after the timeskip, the statement might not be enough especially since it comes from a databook. Regardless, I'm also fine with them remaining at High Hypersonic Pre Timeskip because there have been comparable or greater jumps in AP or speed in other series.

      So, if it's accepted, Shikai Ichigo would be Mach 289 and (Hollowified) Bankai Ichigo would be Mach 500-1000, right?

      But since LordAizenSama has retired from his position, who will decide on this issue?

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    • I don't see why it wouldn't be accepted, other series have done so for less.

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    • Bankai Ichigo and possibly Byakuya would be Mach 289 with others who may scale. Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo would be Mach 500 in speed and Mach 1000 in reaction speed. Gin also obviously. 

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    • Lightning is Mach 1293

      Also, "as fast as lightning" can be a very vague just to say "really fast"

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    • I agree with Aiden. The scan says "fast as lightning" but that does not mean it is saying he's literally as fast as lightning.

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    • There is no other word more accurate than "as" when compare to "like". Saying the word "as"  is vague, is nothing more than a fallacy. But of course there should be a more accurate word according to your statement. Care to share that word with us? 

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    • Except here is the definitions of "as":


      to the same degree or amount <as soft as silk> <twice as long>


      for instance : such as <various trees, as oak or pine>


      when considered in a specified form or relation —usually used before a preposition or a participle <my opinion as distinguished from his>

      Anyway I have to agree with Aiden on this one.

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    • Is when people say "at speed of light" in novels

      Rarely is precised, the majority of the times is just hyperbole

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    • Sure. "The speed of lightning" is as accurate as you can get.

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    • It says to the same degree or amount which would be a low Mach 289. 

      But if its not accepted that's fine with me. I won't waste anyone's time with this, you can close the thread. Thank you for taking it into consideration at least.

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    • I also disagree. With all due respect, the "speed of lightning", "lightning-speed", and "as fast as lightning" are all flowery language that gets tossed around without actually meaning the speed of lightning.

      Very rarely do these phrases mean exactly what they say they do.

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    • It was used as a instance and comparison at the same time, @Apple. Plus "as" can still be vague since if there are other feats that counter this statement.

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    • Lightning is MHS+ so Mach 289 cannot be lightning speed. Even low-end.

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    • Can someone close this?

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