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    • @User

      He'd feel obligated too. I would.

      @Lonl

      Having to wait a month or so more isn't as bad as history repeating a putting us at step one.

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    • It's Ion with a capital i, not an l.

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    • Sorry.

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    • I don't think that Fan should be unbanned. Fan had his final chance and he wasted it, in my opinion.

      I believe Fan was aware that he won't come back after another ban-worthy mistake which he agreed to since this was one of the terms for him to come back to the wiki, in the past. I think this topic was discussed in Rule Violation thread 52 but it appears that the thread was deleted by accident.

      Sure, mistakes happen but Fan again messes up multiple times, got many warnings such as here on his message wall, and in many threads where he made outbursts largely toward Zark prior to his current ban.

      I think Fan earned his permanent ban.

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    • The Wright Way wrote: @User

      He'd feel obligated too. I would.

      @Lonl

      Having to wait a month or so more isn't as bad as history repeating a putting us at step one.

      Just because you would doesn't mean he would, this is something neither you nor I could say for sure

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      The Wright Way wrote: @User

      He'd feel obligated too. I would.

      @Lonl

      Having to wait a month or so more isn't as bad as history repeating a putting us at step one.

      Just because you would doesn't mean he would, this is something neither you nor I could say for sure

      Which is why I'm aiming for which worst case scenario is less destructive.

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    • I highly doubt letting the dude have a choice is destructive but you do you

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    • Just get the Human Resources Team to discuss the ban along with the members that want to see Fan unbanned here on this Wiki.

      Although if I was in Fan's situation, I'd probably completely let it go at that point since getting into conflicts with prominent members here on the Wiki that causes vastly more problems instead of actually solving them does no one on both sides any good whatsoever.

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    • I also think that he has been and is being punished a very disproportionate amount.

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    • He had his chance to behave and blew it twice.

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    • Theuser789 wrote: I highly doubt letting the dude have a choice is destructive but you do you

      I've already explained that, dude. He already has a choice. If he wants to come back, he can ask.

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    • So if he asks it's ok for you? Because people last thread already said he asked to shorten it to 9 months

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    • There also people who disputed that.

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    • Don't unban him, just do whatever people do with Ever; talk him through discord or skype with whatever DC topic he might be interested. He can share his opinion from there to here via others, which may or may be taken into account. That is all he can do to keep contributing.

      Don't bring him back, I don't know much the speficic reasons for his ban, whether it was justified or not. But from what I tell he had many chances and all of them were fucked up.

      It doesn't really matter the excuses being used, if he has mental disabilities or whatever, he simply brings trouble and I'll keep doing so.

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    • GojiBoyForever wrote: There also people who disputed that.

      If that's indeed true then so be it

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    • Pretty sure there were more people that think that he shouldn't be unbanned then people who think he should be unbanned.

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    • You guys are seriously discussion this topic this early into his ban?

      Wait a year or two before you guys bring the topic back up or something.

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    • Gewsbumpz dude
      Gewsbumpz dude removed this reply because:
      nvm
      01:10, September 5, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I was really hoping that I could have just left this wiki as it was, but apparently this is something that I feel a little personal about. Seriously guys? Seriously?

      Fan is a pretty unstable person that has a lot of seeming mental problems. So what needs up happening is a couple years back, he has a break down and starts ruining pages. Then gets banned for it. Later on, he has another mental breakdown and starts losing it on Zark. Clearly bad blood, and generally just has very little patience before getting annoyed.

      I’ve seen a crap load of people in my stay on this wiki from administrators to normal users since when I first came here in 2014, that people have done literally the exact same thing many times over against multiple people they don’t get a long with, and escalates a situation. Typically the staff getting off on a more light penalty then the normal users on average. But in most situations, none of them are permanent banned unless they were going to the point of absolute malice in a pretty stable mind.

      All things must be used under the stability of he person in mind. In this situation, you’d treat it as you would in the law, that being those which loses and lashes out, are not given the same punishment when someone does the same, but has a Sane mind. They’re usually taken away until the can rehabilitate themselves back into society, and aren’t just thrown into jail.

      Treat it as if it was that - Namely keep him away until he becomes fit to join back, and not treat him in the case of someone that’s considered mentally fit. If he comes back after a year or so to see if he’s better, you ban him right away. It takes no time off of anyone, it’s a very quick process.

      So I agree with Ant in this situation, hope people are most considerate on these standards that’s applied differently to mentally fit, compared to mentally unfit by how laws in similar countries work.

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    • Gewsbumpz dude wrote: Ok? Don't see how or why that matters but whatever. Especially since he is trying to get back in now.

      Just go with the majority consensus between the staff and the prominent regulars or something.

      Especially since you guys have been pretty much solving cases like this via majority consensus.

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    • Giygas3 wrote: I was really hoping that I could have just left this wiki as it was, but apparently this is something that I feel a little personal about. Seriously guys? Seriously?

      Fan is a pretty unstable person that has a lot of seeming mental problems. So what needs up happening is a couple years back, he has a break down and starts ruining pages. Then gets banned for it. Later on, he has another mental breakdown and starts losing it on Zark. Clearly bad blood, and generally just has very little patience before getting annoyed.

      I’ve seen a crap load of people in my stay on this wiki from administrators to normal users since when I first came here in 2014, that people have done literally the exact same thing many times over against multiple people they don’t get a long with, and escalates a situation. Typically the staff getting off on a more light penalty then the normal users on average. But in most situations, none of them are permanent banned unless they were going to the point of absolute malice in a pretty stable mind.

      All things must be used under the stability of he person in mind. In this situation, you’d treat it as you would in the law, that being those which loses and lashes out, are not given the same punishment when someone does the same, but has a Sane mind. They’re usually taken away until the can rehabilitate themselves back into society, and aren’t just thrown into jail.

      Treat it as if it was that - Namely keep him away until he becomes fit to join back, and not treat him in the case of someone that’s considered mentally fit. If he comes back after a year or so to see if he’s better, you ban him right away. It takes no time off of anyone, it’s a very quick process.

      So I agree with Ant in this situation, hope people are most considerate on these standards that’s applied differently to mentally fit, compared to mentally unfit by how laws in similar countries work.

      He's had his chances before. He cant keep using excuses.

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    • Agreed

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    • What Goji said. He broke the rules, he had his chances, he broke the rules and his chances, and he got punished. Call it mean all you want, but he had his chances and he can't keep using excuses. I'm sorry. Plus if he really is suffering from this I'm pretty sure just moving on would be the best option since he is moving away from his current source of torment, rather then coming back just for this to inevitably happen again.

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    • @Goji You say this as if he’s mentally fit. In the law, your argument will not hold of throwing someone into jail. Again, when you’re considered mentally unfit, you’re not held to the same standards as someone that’s fit.

      Also it was pretty clear Fan was still unfit to come back, people just kinda gave into his, ‘I’m better’ when you read his text, you can tell he’s not mentally fit to come back, hints why I say you make almost certainty that he’s now fit to try to come hack. And if he repeats it, then you ban him. It’s again, something that takes no time whatsoever to do.

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    • Giygas3 wrote: @Goji You say this as if he’s mentally fit. In the law, your argument will not hold of throwing someone into jail. Again, when you’re considered mentally unfit, you’re not held to the same standards as someone that’s fit.

      Also it was pretty clear Fan was still unfit to come back, people just kinda gave into his, ‘I’m better’ when you read his text, you can tell he’s not mentally fit to come back, hints why I say you make almost certainty that he’s now fit to try to come hack. And if he repeats it, then you ban him. It’s again, something that takes no time whatsoever to do.

      I am aware. But in the legal system the judge can order you to some sort of mental instituition to make you get better which is obviously not in our power. Plus this is not a court, as shown times

      That would be fine if you know, we hadn't done it before. He can't keep getting free passes.

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    • @Gew Is that what you tell to mentally unstable people? You say, “Well you said you’re now fit, and you didn’t change the first time you said you were better.” you then throw them into jail? I view yours as a black and white view, to a problem that’s obviously much deeper than what you seem to view it as, as how the laws have being trying to handle this problem for over a hundred years now And can extend much further into the law system. Which ours is obviously not all that good at handling.

      Again; what I’m saying is that you see when he’s mentally fit by actions and how he overall goes about himself, not saying “Oh? Someone that’s mentally unstable says he’s better? Well, sorry bud.” You see the problem with this? Of course someone mentally unstable is not good at judging their own stability! That’s why others have to tell when they’re fit to come back by their actions, not words.

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    • Also according to himself he's not even mentally unfit.

      "If I was mentally unfit. How do I have a job?"

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    • @Goji So what if he says that? You can clearly tell from his actions and overall general way of how he type, that’s he’s mentally unfit. Thus, you apply the standards to him as you would in the law. Which is my points.

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    • At one point he's mentally unfit but then at another hes not? To go with your court example any lawyer worth his buck would tear that to shreds. And no I cant tell from his actions. His actions to me are spiteful, angry and manipulative.

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    • Well just because you are mentally unstable doesn't mean you are above the rules or immune to being punished (I can be considered mentally unstable and people treat me like that, so I don't see why he should be treated at all differently). I have nothing against the mentally ill or anyone with a form of disability, what I am saying is that if he broke the rules and had his chances continuously, he shouldn't be held on a pedestal and let him make excuses. A person is a person, regardless of whatever and they should be treated as such, especially when they have done the shit Fan has done.

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    • Fan has had issues here for years, half a freaking decade he was here, and he has made no attempt to shape up his character. He called Zark multiple slurs against LGBT people and threw hissy fits when she as much as posted in "his" threads, not to mention doing a whole slew of gross and manipulative things to me and others.

      The fact that people are even considering unbanning him makes me annoyed.

      Edit: Oh yeah and I forgot he's posted bigoted things against people of Islamic faith before too. Not a good egg to have around.

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    • Yeah, given all of the stuff he has committed. It is a pretty good idea not to unban him. As Amelia said, he isn't a good egg to have around.

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    • I strongly believe he should not be unbanned. It's not just a case of what he's done; if we had reason to believe he'd legitimately shape up, then I actually would not have issue with him being brought back to the wiki.

      The problem comes with the fact that he's been so consistent in causing ban-worthy problems that we just have no reason to believe that he's actually improved at this point.

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    • @Gew That’s not my point whatsoever. I’m in no way saying he’s above consequences, What I’m saying is that you cannot hold him to the same Standards as you would to someone considered fit. Which is entirely the whole point why mentally unfit people here goes to a rehabilitation, and gets a completely different treatment than to someone that’s not.

      And the point it seems like most people are completely looking over is HOW he came back. It was a case of him begging that he’s better, while still clearly being mentally unstable. It was not a case of someone actually seeing if he was actually truly fit to come back. Which the later is HOW it should be handled. You don’t punish a mentally unfit person when they themselves judge if they’re better, others have to tell if they’re fit or not through actions and overall general way of thinking and talking.

      @Amelia I could literally throw these words back on anyone that’s considered mentally unfit, and acts that way over a long period of time, in an act as if I was trying to treat him as if he should be acted as if he was considered mentally fit.

      I’m not in any way saying to unban him, what I’m saying is that you handle such a situation change more carefully then what was given the first time around, and ONLY let him back in if he truly got better, which he clearly wasn’t at that time when Ant reduced his block.

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    • "I’m not in any way saying to unban him, what I’m saying is that you handle such a situation change more carefully then what was given the first and second time around"

      Fixed that for you.

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    • Yeah sure whatever, isn't the first time I heard that, and he isn't coming back. So....

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    • No.

      Being mentally ill is in no way a get-out-of-jail-free-card to awful behavior, especially when some of that behavior is incredibly manipulative and bigoted. I don't even want to get into some of the stuff he's done to me since it can actually set off some triggers in people, that's how bad he can be.

      I hate to sound like this, because I know it can sound awful, but it's true: at some point, whether or not you're ill becomes irrelevant, if you're not even going to remotely attempt to shape up, and throw hissy fits and call others name, we can't just say "well, he's unwell". We can, and should, bend some of our standards to comply for people who have certain disabilities, but we can't excuse aggressive behavior for said disabilities.

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    • I think I’ll reply one last time, since I feel like this is going on for far too long, and many people here seems to be completely misinterpreting what I’ve been trying to clarify for like four comments now.

      @Amelia “Being mentally ill is in no way a get-out-is-jail-free-cars to awful behavior.”

      I’ve repeated myself multiple times that I’m not saying he should not be punished, what I’ve been saying is that mentally unfit people should NOT be treated as if they’re mentally fit. That’s WHY laws separate these sorts of behavior into different forms of tackling such problems. How you should handle people who have such problems, you obviously block him until you Tell he’s mentally fit to come back.

      His situation was again nothing like that for how he came back, and why I’m far more tolerant on the situation, because I don’t give a very harsh punishment to someone mentally unfit, that tries to judge for themselves if they’re better or not. If he acted mentally fit then came back and this problem arose again, yes, your point is far more understandable. But the situation was in no way handled like that.

      To the rest: Yes, I absolutely agree. But this is again where you’re entirely missing my point. If he truly DOES get better in his mental stability, and people actually looked at that factor, because they didn’t last when they unblocked him, why should you say “Sorry, you had your second chance” when that second chance when he was unblocked was handled terribly, and acts like the claims of someone unstable saying he will do better, actually should be held against him?

      I don’t think those points are good at all, and I do think if he does get actually better and you actually can see it from his actions, we should not hold his previous actions completely against him. Just like the law would not hold it against a mentally unfit person that was rehabilitated and out back into society.

      But I said my piece, I’m going to drop it myself.

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    • It wasn't handled terribly. Everything you've just said is debunked by the above.

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    • Problems like this would be solved almost instantly if there was a way to implement an ignore list for specific members that you don't want to see posts from, like the 99% of other forums have.

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    • ShieldsPlus wrote:
      Problems like this would be solved almost instantly if there was a way to implement an ignore list for specific members that you don't want to see posts from, like the 99% of other forums have.

      Actually, I wonder if such a feature could be added on the new forum?

      It could also have the feature to be ignored by staff when giving a warning.

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    • Derailing.

      It seems as if most support has been for keeping him blocked so perhaps we should move on.

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    • Agreed

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    • Are you fucking serious?

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    • "He does not deserve infinite ban"

      He does. This isn't just "a bad day", he did this shit for a month and a half, when he HAD staff talking to him constantly and yet he decided to freak the fuck out. I won't even mention off-site statements he has made about me and this personal vendetta.

      "He feels s a d"

      Alot of people do when they get banned. You know what's not fixing that? Forcing a person back in a community he has disgruntled relationships with. If you unironically are doing this for "making his life better", it's way in over your head that a VERSUS DEBATING COMMUNITY can do anything, especially when it's totally not like he has a friend circle outside of VSBW he frequents.

      "He isn't manipulative"

      Wildly inconsistent trigger that got ignored the first opportunity he gets to taunt me, almost seems like he had bullshit tier arguments that he wanted to hide under personal drama so his CRT goes by without failure. If it's not that, he's blatantly unstable and shouldn't be around the wiki.

      "He has mental issues so its somehow justifiable"

      We all have mental issues, woopidy doo, doesn't give us a single excuse to act like THAT. And let's just pretend the narrative that "Oh no his mental disorder forces him to act like a jackass", he shouldn't be on this wiki as it harms community, the end.

      "Let's limit his contact with Zark"

      Fuck off.

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    • I feel for the guy, but at this point mental illness is no longer an excuse for him to comeback. If anything, it should make him have a less chance of coming back due to his history. As Imp said, a Versus Debating community is not going to help him. If it did, there are countless others. We cannot continue to give him chance after chance. The mentality excuse will only go so far.

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    • It’s not even a mental illness, he is autistic, like multiple people, staff included on the wiki.

      People are severely over exaggerating ones autism, it does not change their beliefs, or their ability to learn, he has thrown LGBT slurs at Zark out of anger, he does not deserve to be pitied because he’s autistic.

      The fact that people defend his actions under it is actually insulting.

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    • @Everyone, first of all I'm getting really annoyed that this was discussed for so long and literally cluttered the previous thread and already took up 10% and possibly even more of this thread that just became new and refreshed.

      Anyway, Elizhaa at least said it with maturity. I too feel sorry for FanofRPGs and do strongly agree that lots of people are indeed too hard on him at least as a reasonable debater. Controversial or not, he has been pretty helpful with some revisions here and there and also helped back me up when some people were pestering/harassing me on my wall trying to get me to "Agree with their heavily inflated proposals".

      However, I do have to agree with the other staff that earned his permanent ban. Of course he's allowed to politely message people offsite and maybe help out with some proposals, but many other staff members have serious issues and bad experiences with him. Also, Prom had to PM Antvasima that he should keep his word; there was a promise that FanofRPGs will need to be banned permanently if he acts up again. It is true that half the things said about him are heavily exaggerated, mostly by another permabanned user. But Numbers said half the things about him are wrong but was still worried about some other issues. But I seen on VS Central about Fan pretty much reacts badly every time two girls emote hugging basically.

      He is definitely tame compared to someone like Corgi in terms of political drama, but I was told he's also been problematic regarding that too. And the multiple slurs he said to Amelia and Imp and Prom, and many others are indeed inexcusable. And mental illnesses will be considered and sympathized with, but severity of it also matters. Extreme levels is not an excuse for hostile behavior. I do have mental illnesses as far as social anxiety and PTSD, and sometimes the beast inside me forces me to do things I'm not proud of. But if it's too the point where even the lightest amount of criticism causes a massive uproar, then there needs to be serious restrictions. I don't hate anybody period, even ones who do deserve it, but I also have a no tolerance for harassment, discrimination, bigotry.

      Vs debating in general is bad for a lot of people's mental health. VSBW is a lot better than many other Vs debating platforms regarding that, but it still doesn't change the fact that Content Revisions, Vs Threads, ect are all just far too chaotic for someone who isn't in good mental health to be properly debating. I know from experience, but also know that there are exceptions; verses I'm not so passionate about tend to be more fun to debate than ones where I am in expert on given they're the type of threads where I can just give more general answers and not have to explain everything step by step. But either way, pretty much everything else is prone to causing people to become even more stressed.

      Also, while I appreciate Imp's input in trying to give people the memo, I really don't think she's in the best position to be arguing the way she is. Both sides have been awful to each other. I know it started on Discord a long time back and mostly based on the things against LGBT. But the expressive and dramatic attitude is only worsening the situation. I agreed with what AKM Sama said both on discord and on Antvasima's wall, "Break it up, both sides".

      Anyway, I'm okay with conversations offsite or other wikis being shared as long as they remain well behaved, but FanofRPGs already broke his chances at least for actively being here.

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    • Is it possible he can redeem himself in the next months and can show that he improved his behavior and he got blocked 2 months ago so why bring up this topic

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    • Well, this conversation completely exploded while I was gone.

      Anyways, that just reinforces my vote. Permanent ban. End of discussion.

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    • I disagee with Mike, Fan has had many chances and didn't redeem himself. He has done some vile things mentioned in this thread and the previous one. He has been tried pulling the mental illness card and failed. He has shown to be not okay. I suffer from anger issues and I am a bit crazy due to staying indoors. I am trying to not be bias. Virtually everyone has agreed Fan shouldn't come back and thats what I think.

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    • I would type a long, comprehensive post on why Fan should not come back and the sheer idea of allowing him back is an absolutely asanine and ridiculous premise that insults me to hear, but Zark says it exactly as I would.

      Except I'd probably be more mean about it.

      Basically, keep Fan banned forever, never bring this up again, I will personally hit you with a rubber chicken if you do, end of topic. There is absolutely nothing that needs to be said on this issue, and there is not a man on this earth who can convince me Fan is a positive presence. So, let's drop it and never bring it up again.

      Sounds good?

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    • I suppose that that DarkDragonMedeus' analysis is probably correct. Meaning that we shouldn't let Fan return.

      I am also not at all informed about that Fan has used slurs against LGBT people in general in the past, but that is obviously completely unacceptable. I just thought that his original 2 year ban was very severe as it is, and that a permanent one now doesn't give him a chance even if he turns much more mentally stable.

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    • I just woke up, and noticed that FanofRPGs wanted me to post the following message over 6 hours ago. It is obviously too late now, as the consensus says to not let him back to the wiki, but it still feels unfair to not even let him speak to defend himself in the slightest. Take note that this is not remotely an endorsement on my part.

      FanofRPGs:

      "The timeline is being messed up.

      It should be noted I never had a good standing with Zark. I said bad things to her which led to eachother not getting along, and she egged me off the server once, only for me to return a final time in February. She made me not want to be on the server even before then for months, and only begrudgingly come at Zach or Aeyu's request. I would dislike her even over the fact she impersonated me not once, but twice. Once on the server mocking me, and another when I wasn't even on there and she tricked Aeyu into inviting her to a server and not me. I have picture proof that this happened:

      https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613157862621052931/751573480729870386/Screenshot_20200904-184432.png

      So I had reasons to not want to see Zark or listen to her. And this was in June, one of the most confusing and horrible times for me in my life. I felt like everything and everyone was betraying me and I was horrified at myself and everything. When I saw Zark on my thread attacking them I felt personally attacked because we don't get along. I get along with Cal and like him so I didn't feel attacked when. And then when she insinuated I never even read the comics and was just leeching off respect threads and Wokistan and other users among other things. Warnings given to me were justified at the time, I wanted to move on and get away from the topic. I tried to move on and lay low after that, with my only major project being the Goku vs Superman blog which shouldn't have been controversial at all.

      When I had that fight with Zark on the rule report thread when Zach was being reported I staunchly believe I did nothing wrong there. Zach was literally being reported minutes after he was banned on the VSB server so I felt people were sick of Zach and wanted him out of their hair, nothing more. Zark construed it into me claiming there was a staff-sourced conspiracy to strike at Zach and get him banned out of spite, to which my "outburst" wasn't even an outburst. I called out her taking what I said, which in hindsight was stupid, and creating the most neurotic and negative interpretation of what I said. Me "outbursting" there was absolutely legitimate given whatever stupid comment I said, she took it out of context and blew it out of proportion 10x more.

      Soon after that Zark left which made me saddened because I wanted to properly debate her on DC stuff after the move, prove my case, and then make up over the past fight and just move on. That's what I meant when I said I wanted to defeat her. I wanted to prove I was right with my DC stuff and that she was wrong, and thus not win just because of bias for me or through me whining, which is illegitimate and antithetical to Vs Battles Wiki. I really did try to apologize to her on her goodbye thread but she responded gibberish which made me just delete the comment and give up. I was banned soon after.

      Point is aside for the first outburst, I did nothing wrong in the second case and quickly tried to improve my situation and avoid what occured in the first place.

      I had one major f*** that was uncalled for since I returned, the other time was Zark's fault. I had an excrutiatingly bad Summer that I can't even BEGIN to go into describing. I don't want to because I hate how bad I got then. It was the worst I felt in years. I am trying to get better from that. I used to have friends who now hate me, I used to be respected, loved. This wiki was my childhood. I don't get along with anyone else. I have no social life but constant work drudgery and lockdown. I don't even have school anymore. I don't feel like I bel;ong in Spacebattles or OBD and this wiki was always my safespace. I felt okay in the server even if I had breakdowns until Zark came in. She constantly berated me, ranted on me, impersonated me, took what I said out of context, lied about me constantly."

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    • The impersonation that lasted a day??? And was clearly a joke as I blatantly told Aeyu as soon as she gave me an invite out of nowhere that I am not Fan???

      So when Fan makes fun of people on the server it's fair game but when someone does something that is in good fun he loses his shit. Amazing.

      "Zark construed it into me claiming there was a staff-sourced conspiracy to strike at Zach and get him banned out of spite, to which my "outburst" wasn't even an outburst." You know you could have just, said "No that's not what I mean" and not the fucking "OHMYGOD WHY ARE YOU TARGETING ME" rants, it was just a statement, not unjustified in any way whatsoever.

      And no, you blatantly taunted me on the fucking Goodbye thread, and Zark's fault here is you saying "That's you making an accusation"

      Fucking seriously? Constant taunts? Grow a spine, it's totally not like literally everyone does it because you're constantly making ridiculous claims and acting obnoxiously off-site. If we're doing it like this, half the fucking staff team is more guilty than me.

      Hell in comparison I actually acted better than them initially, I didn't hold onto the jokes everyone was doing on you, I actually tried to act interested when you went off about your bullshit rants, I didn't just go "Oh Fan's just a fucking nuisance" by default. You just never made an effort to fucking improve and got worse and worse every second until you got yourself banned.

      Y'all wanna know the fucking impersonation this guy is talking about? I had a Gardevoir profile picture on Discord as a joke, and he went apeshit. Over that. He's an unstable mess who exaggerates everything said to the Nth degree and is horrible human being on top of that.

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    • Well, we should probably leave this discussion. I just thought that he should at least get the chance to have his say.

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    • Mhmm, how many other banned people get these chances? Especially to insult another user?

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    • Look, I am not informed about any Discord drama, as I don't use those chat rooms. I just know him from when he has chatted on fanfiction.net with me, and there he has just been very depressed, isolated, information overloaded, and stressed out. If he has genuinely used severe slurs against you and others, that is obviously completely unacceptable.

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    • We all agreed he should stay banned, let's move on

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    • Yes. That seems best.

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    • So I've read through the entirety of the thread since I left. All I see is that he's annoying off-site and the DC thread being mentioned, which if you’re gonna ban him for using curse words in that thread, you might as well ban me for saying “Fucking respect your opposition fan”.

      So what I'm getting from this is that people were sick of his off-site behavior and took the first chance he slipped up online (but didn't actually violate any rules) to permaban him.

      So, for me it's quite simple, if someone manages to give me a piece of evidence which is undeniably a rule violation be it on- or off-site, as long as it isn't ripped out of context, then I will drop this issue per direct and move on with my life. Until then I am not giving up, if you think this is crazy with the amount of support he gets for his ban then let me tell you:

      1) This isn't the first time a lot of staff members supported someone innocent from being banned, look at Shadowwarrior.

      2) It should be very easy for someone to actually post a rule violation rather than linking to a deleted thread, of which I analyzed every on-site statement that could have been brought up within that thread and found no rule violation.

      3) It should be even easier to bring up the off-site stuff for which he was banned, after all such requires a screenshot of the supposed violation and proof that it wasn't ripped out of context, if either of those things isn't present it shouldn't even be considered valid proof and thus no grounds to ban him on.

      4) He also talked to me about his supposed rule violations off-site and he was more hurt by it than me for what he actually did. The homophobic stuff relates to some sort of monster game or was made where the target in question couldn't see it. Besides it is practically impossible for him to be homophobic (and apparently the statements that he did make were leaked to the person in question, we have an active rule that prevents this kind of stuff from being used as a reason for a ban, unless everyone forgot about that again?). Calling Zark the w-word is part of a game where he has to give a description of one word when he thinks about a user, which per definition isn't serious nor directly against said user and as such doesn't count as harassment. He also made an off-color joke about muslims, but this was per definition, a joke and it was also very clear from the context that it was a joke. I can go on and on about this if I have to, maybe even create word document if I have to.

      But the point is that due to the other thread being deleted or the discussion for his ban happening off-site (which btw was the wrong thread Elizhaa linked, that was the one where he got unbanned), me doubting that anything was brought up related to off-site behavior in the first place (and if it did probably didn't follow the rules for bringing it up) and there being bias against Fan (he was just minding his own business in that thread, asking Ant to post something from him and suddenly people start attacking him in that thread, isn't this borderline stalking even?) the burden of proof is on you guys and I want to see the evidence that justifies him being banned in the first place with my own eyes.

      I get that this is an emotional topic for everyone and that this is flooding the RVT (hence I asked whether I should do it in a seperate thread) but the very least I am asking is to give a concrete reason for his ban, that's all. Until then, everyone's votes shouldn't matter, you only get to vote when there is a clear rule violation. I know people are gonna hit me with a rubber duck for this, but people straight up compared him to Everlasting, which just shows how much bias there is against him, take it from someone who dealt with Kukui bringing up arguments made by Everlasting, I wouldn't wanna get near him with a 100 feet pole, yet Fan and I can have a productive discussion for a month straight without any problems whatsoever and it's not that I consider myself the extreme type or anything.

      Also a little bit about his autism, I am aware that some people tend to defend him because of that and that it seems like people are just saying he should be unbanned because he has autism, but this isn't the case. In my analysis I am not even accounting for that. However people have made me aware that for his own sake he should be banned and I can agree to a self-imposed ban for x amount of time for his own sake.

      Btw if any of the screenshots that prove a rule violation of him are too personal to be shared on the RVT, you can always reach me on Discord or fanfiction, just post a message on my wall.

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    • Antvasima
      Antvasima removed this reply because:
      22:55, September 5, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Mobakalukreborned is back from his month long ban and has immediately jumped back into old behavior. He's admitted to basically seeing this wiki as a joke and clearly has no intention of respecting its rules. Permaban.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3732698?useskin=oasis#360

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    • I handled it. Should I use WHAM on his recent edits as well?

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    • I mean... he hasn't posted gore or anything. He's just kept picking fights snd insulting the wiki. I don't think a WHAM would be necessary. He just had no intention of stopping the behavior that got him banned the first time.

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    • Okay. Never mind then.

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    • "So what I'm getting from this is that people were sick of his off-site behavior and took the first chance he slipped up online (but didn't actually violate any rules) to permaban him."

      Actually it was more like we said "hey how the fuck did he not get banned for that last time" and rectified it. If you're on an explicit last chance and then straight up tell someone "fuck you" on a thread I got no clue what you expected to happen. 

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    • Unwanteduser48

      This User already received his first warning from DarkDragonMedeus six days ago.

      He made this VS thread just today and I was wondering if this match was fair?

      Speed Equalized Hyper Sonic (2-C) VS MUI Goku (Low 2-C)

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    • @Greenshifter

      What did I just say about dropping it.

      I am heading to your location with a rubber chicken as we speak. No more talking about Fan. From anyone.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4418553#98 Badri just spammed every open old Ben 10 thread. (It’s him because that was a private conversation)

      Edit: And took my profile pic, he has good taste tho

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    • I handled the sockpuppet.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Purgy2

      Impersonating me, can only assume it's Badrimoine since you just banned one of his alts and he's the only person I can think of that would be this upset with me.

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    • He also created a troll thread, and has some grotesque images on their profile

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    • I handled it.

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    • @Purgy Sorry, I accidentally blocked you for some reason (probably because of tiredness) very briefly instead of Purgy 2. I've unblocked you.

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    • No problem.

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    • @ByAsura

      You have to remove the IP block as well when you accidentally ban the wrong person:

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:BlockList

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4579501?useskin=oasis#177

      Xhuterogiocatore16X sounds too ignorant, calls others fanbois and is in general nonsensial, kinda gives off a troll vibe, should be kept an eye on.

      Naruichiplayz6 should probably get a warning, definitely instructive, because he keeps using an outdated blog, ignoring several explanations of immensurable speed, forcing a incon when it is a stomp and saying that the profiles should be changed based on his headcanon and NLF.

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    • Is some other staff member willing to investigate? I am tired.

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    • Antvasima
      Antvasima removed this reply because:
      15:26, September 8, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I definitely second Xhuterogiocatore being a troll. He seems more like he's trying to stir shit up than anything. Unsure about playz.

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    • I blocked Xhute, and took care of his spam.

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    • I can do the same to Naruichi if you wish. He seems like yet another unconstructive spam member.

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    • Reading through the thread... yeah, that checks out. I doubt that someone who is simply new a clueless could find an outdated blog to try and prove their point. Go ahead.

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    • Okay. Thank you.

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    • This user appears to be an obvious troll looking at his contributions alone. He has Zeldafan in his user name and talked on a Zelda thread, but all he did was basically downplay it while taking every detail out of context. He's also rude, obnoxious, snarky, narrow-minded, and condescending. The way he says "Even Kaguya and Yhwach could solo your favorite verse" is also heavily uncalled for. He also has a similar username format, attitude, and tactics of Superman1998 who was a sock of SoldierofKrpton. I think it might be safe to block him if others are fine with that?

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    • I personally would agree with at least a strict warning. I don't mind a block though, as he also brings up irrelevant stuff in threads. (Like how he said "Kaguya and soul king can solo Zelda" when that is completely irrelevant in said thread)

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    • I went ahead and banned him, his most recent post confirmed my suspicions fully.

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    • If anyone receives a notification from some Slavic wiki, be careful, it's trolls posting porn. Make sure to report them to the SOAP wiki.

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    • I got one about a warning they're going to raid (I assume) a Discord server, not the unofficial VSBW server, but from another wiki. Someone also got doxxed, however I am unsure if that adress was legitimate. So in case you didn't think to report them, I 100% would advise you to do so.

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    • Oh i already did. Before i even posted what i did in fact.

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    • Glad to know I wasn't the only one getting notifs on there.

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    • Antvasima
      Antvasima removed this reply because:
      04:22, September 9, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I do remember her as someone who caused a lot of drama and has made numerous socks to get around her ban, I wouldn't trust her in the slightest tbh.

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    • WeeklyBattles
      WeeklyBattles removed this reply because:
      08:18, September 9, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I'm unsure. It has been over 2 years since they were blocked, and I don't like the idea of assuming someone to be malicious if they're asking to come back after so long. Though depending on how recent their socks have been, this could be different.

      What was their most recent sock?

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    • ... Hey, I'm fairly sure the same girl got banned on FCOC for like, the exact same shit, on yet another sock, not even a year ago.

      (Hard to tell because she keeps using different accounts)

      Yeah, no, she's not coming back. It's like she said in her "goodbye" post; she has no intention of reforming.

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    • Okay then.

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    • Oh yeah this was the same chick who mocked me off site on me wanting to be a staff and then proceeded to make a page on the joke wiki mocking me.

      I am a bit biased here but keep her off, nobody gains anything from this

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    • Okay. No problem.

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    • User:Garchomp777. I'm thinking this guy is either a troll, or very misguided.

      Argues for all Pokémon to scale to Tier 2: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4367327

      Says random "hyperversal" statements put things as at least Tier 2 and calls the Tiering System trash when explained that's wrong: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4593544

      And now he's going to start arguing Goku is Tier 1: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4587031#25

      Edit: Add Tier 2 Marvel Thor to the list: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4423107#4

      Edit 2: Add High 1-A Mxy: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4579452#4

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    • I think he is misguided

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    • He's already been reported multiple times. Pretty sure that he is just very misguided 

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      User:Garchomp777. I'm thinking this guy is either a troll, or very misguided.

      Argues for all Pokémon to scale to Tier 2: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4367327

      Says random "hyperversal" statements put things as at least Tier 2 and calls the Tiering System trash when explained that's wrong: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4593544

      And now he's going to start arguing Goku is Tier 1: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4587031#25

      I dont know why you'd think im trolling 

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    • He's been reported several times and refuses to budge. Just give him a ban already. At least a temporary one.

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    • The Wright Way wrote:
      He's been reported several times and refuses to budge. Just give him a ban already. At least a temporary one.

      Damn

      I dont see how disagreeing with people is against the rules?Dont see it anywhere

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    • It's not "disagreeing" that's the problem. It's aggressively trying to scale literally every Pokemon to tier 2 and then calling the wiki's system trash when you're told it doesn't work that way.

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    • Disagreeing with people isn't. But you're indeed pushing for pretty restricted stuff (Like violating the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics just for starters), and outright called the rules "trash" when I explained one of them to you. So, combined with the fact you have been reported multiple times already, I think a temporary ban is justified.

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    • Not to mention trying to upgrade Ultra Beasts and other Pokemon to Tier 1 based on one statement that they are hyper dimensional despite us constantly telling you that that's not enough to upgrade them to tier 1.

      You continuously ignore what we tell you and no matter how much we explain things to you, you keep repeating the same statements over and over hoping that we'd magically agree with them all of a sudden.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote: Not to mention trying to upgrade Ultra Beasts and other Pokemon to Tier 1 based on one statement that they are hyper dimensional despite us constantly telling you that that's not enough to upgrade them to tier 1.

      You continuously ignore what we tell you and no matter how much we explain things to you, you keep repeating the same statements over and over hoping that we'd magically agree with them all of a sudden.

      All im doing is just showing why its consistent tho

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    • Consistent statements doesn't change the issue present.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote: Consistent statements doesn't change the issue present.

      Im just sending more and more scans if i find them If I really am violating the rules, then I apologise for that

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    • The statements can be as consistent as they want, they still don't meet the standards set in Tiering System and explained in Tiering System Explanation Page to be Tier 2, let alone Tier 1.

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    • You've been posting "Scans" that all have the same issues, despite everything we say, you continue using them as your sole evidence. This in spite of us telling you time and time again, that they aren't nearly enough. You then have the nerve to say our rules are stupid and that we are downplaying when your evidence holds 0 water.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote: You've been posting "Scans" that all have the same issues, despite everything we say, you continue using them as your sole evidence. This in spite of us telling you time and time again, that they aren't nearly enough. You then have the nerve to say our rules are stupid and that we are downplaying when your evidence holds 0 water.

      We can have proper debate on whether or not trained Pokémon can scale to at least low 2-C

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    • We already did have a "Debate"

      No one agreed

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    • Schnee One
      Schnee One removed this reply because:
      02:49, September 10, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Young or Foreign people tend to respond like this, i just think he don't really understand

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    • I get that some people don’t have English as their home language, but it’s clear he understands us but continues to disagree calling our rules trash

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    • As the person who gave him two warnings, I do agree that a temporary ban is in order based on the three strike practice. He's definitely not a troll, but he seems way too naive. Everyone keeps telling him that "Upper-dimensional" is a common hyperbole and that reverse power scaling has always been a bad practice.

      Also, disagreeing with practices has never once been a violation, it's being rude, obnoxious, narrow-minded, or condescending about those disagreements is what calls for action. Same with insulting people or calling them stupid.

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    • So for how long should he be blocked? 2 months?

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    • I'd say 2 months is a good timeframe.

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    • Okay. Feel free to apply that then.

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    • Antvasima
      Antvasima removed this reply because:
      08:43, September 10, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I have applied the 2 month ban.

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    • Just gonna add that he's derailed several threads to push his narratives of stuff like Tier 2 non-legendary Pokemon, despite being told not to in the threads themselves. He is fully aware of what he's doing, and I'd push for longer than 2 months personally.

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    • Okay. For how long would you prefer?

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    • 6 months seems fair.

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    • Okay. I do not mind. What do the rest of you think?

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    • I think 2 months is fine, as it's lenient enough that nobody can complain about us being too harsh if he later fucks up and is punished far more severely.

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    • I think 2 months is fine for him to learn his lesson. If he comes back and does the same thing again, we can take more extreme action then.

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    • Okay. No problem.

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    • Two months work

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Talonzone

      has already been warned, but hasn't shown any sign of stopping calling people "down players"/"wankers"

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    • The dude barely contributes, but when he does, he's like Jonathan Lighter levels of rude, he also didn't even respond to his warning. Based on pattern alone, I highly doubt he's going to make any effort any time soon.

      Either a final warning followed by a long term ban if he does not shape up, or a long term ban, blocking him for a few weeks I doubt would change his attitude because that's more or less when he's active.

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    • Ban him for, like, three or four months.

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    • I don't mind if you ban him either.

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    • I have done so.

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    • Thank you.

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    • Another thing, this user's one and only contribution is this comment on this thread. Seems like an obvious troll who came here out of the blue.

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    • Funny, was just about to report them

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    • Alao the name is the cherry on top of the shit sundae, ban.

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    • I have blocked him.

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    • Thank you.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:FEH_Guy

      Ive been thinking this for a bit, but I have a slight feeling that this person may just be another sock of Mikoto. Their account was created not too long after their last sock was banned, and they visit a lot of the same threads. (Ex: Deathbattle, Henry Stickmin threads, DB threads, and some Fire Emblem threads).

      Their speech pattern seems pretty similar too.

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    • I agree after looking at the Beerus vs Galaxia thread, she was also indirectly insulting the staff and accusing them of being "Biased against Dragon Ball and pro towards DC Comics".

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    • Was that directed at VSBW, or DB?

      Either way, my point still stands.

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    • She was talking about 3-A Toei Broly being rejected and 2-A Flash Point Superman via multiple sun dips being accepted, so I'd say towards VSBW. But anyway, I blocked her.

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    • To expand on that, the user called "Purgy3" is spamming comments in the OPM general thread.

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    • Also, why are users able to edit other users profiles? Doesn't that seem like a really stupid feature? I'm not even able to revert the changes he's made to my profile either, or at least, I don't know how to.

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    • I handled it.

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    • @Purgy

      I have taken up the issue with Fandom in the past, but they didn't want to change the settings so only administrators, content moderators, and the user him- or herself can change user pages.

      You can contact them yourself if you wish though.

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    • Maybe you could give him rollback and make his userpage rollback only?

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    • I am not able to set that sort of restriction. I can only restrict it to admin and content moderator editing, and then he wouldn't be able to access it himself.

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    • Oh ok, I thought there was an intermediate point.

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    • Only one for autoconfirmed users, but I can apply that and see if it helps, if Greenshifter and Purgy wish.

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    • You can do so if you wish and thinks it’ll help. I don’t really care about my user page either way, if he keeps doing it I’m not even opposed to making it admin/content mod only as long as it only prevents me from editing my description.

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    • I have partially protected your and Purgy's pages.

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    • Ok thanks.

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    • Ban

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    • I handled it.

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    •   Loading editor
    • handled. gave him friendly advice. 

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    • Could you wham as well please?

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    • Handled.

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    • I blocked Purgy5 and deleted his edits.

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    • Thank you for helping out.

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    • Made in hell57. Troll editing the user pages of other people and posting porn.

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    • Andy handled it.

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    • He still has 5 readable contributions, but I suppose no way to get rid of those. Still permablocked thankfully though.

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    • https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/605972740205445120/755490832580083887/Screenshot_20200915-140926.png

      I just got insight that Ican'tthinkof1goodname is sending cryptic messages to other VSBW members foreshadowing something involving the Goosebumps verse. Should this be of concern?

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    • If it’s just cryptic then maybe he has something neat planned and wants to add anticipation. Or he might just be screwing around.

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    • Its a Doom reference and a reference to how I dislike the fact Goosebumps is being "Decomposited". So that you know me and Sans are best pals.

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    • that's pretty cringey tbh

      Could be calling for a destabilization of the verse, but it's better to get his input on it to clear up the problem ig :V

      EDIT: nvm k

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    • Thought it would be because Icant on Versus Central has mentioned reporting it on the Profile Deletion thread because they are "wrong". Or something worse for all I know.

      Proof

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    • Can people please stop falsely reporting me on the RVR? Thank you. I do have revisions for alot of verses planned and I like giving people who disagree with my opinions time to prepare their arugments. For some context involving the Reporting the verse comment it was before the most recent Goosebumps CRT happened. I was saying the pages are wrong.

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    • Yeah go ahead, not like anyone would believe you with what you have to say.

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    • I mean you can also stop doubtful behavior too like "RIP AND TEAR THIS VERSE", that helps :V.

      But yeah knowing Icant I doubt there is malice involved, could just be him being silly. Just don't do suspicious stuff like that ig

      @Gews chill out lol

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    • It doesn't help that username once tried to farm sympathy by claiming to be leaving, but then just up and didn't once he saw that nobody cared.

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    • @Gews

      If you are stressed please take a break as you seem to not be okay. I have some rep having people who believe me and who like me (see my message wall on CSaP), and I am the owner and founder of a wiki named Extreme Fights. I have no plans of stopping.

      @Zark

      I plan on being calmer in the future, thanks for the advice and for telling Gews to calm down. I am not perfect and I suffer from anger issues.

      @The Wright Way

      If you looked at the thread that I left saying I am leaving I put that it was possible that I would return and many others such as Zark have left and came back

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    • No one cares.

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    • Ypu didn't leave and come back. From what I can tell, you just never left.

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    • Technically speaking, Icant has not violated any rule yet, so if you @Gews think he will, bring it up when it actually happens. Arresting people before a crime is made is very much not ok, so reporting before anything has happened does not solve anything.

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    • Ionliosite wrote: Technically speaking, Icant has not violated any rule yet, so if you @Gews think he will, bring it up when it actually happens. Arresting people before a crime is made is very much not ok, so reporting before anything has happened does not solve anything.

      ^This. Having a bad reputation isn't a crime.

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    • Yes but it can make people believe something that isn't true (pretty sure that sort of things happens all the time both in fiction and reality), like this current situation we are talking about right now.

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    • Can we all please stop spamming the RVR thread?

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    • Ican't has his own opinions and yes lets stop spamming the RVR thread with this


      Also you also acted agressive on CSAP as well, just saying

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    • Alright any more posts past this point are getting erased

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    •   Loading editor
    • I'll note that Arthur is generally inactive and when he is active, he consistently acts in an extremely toxic and biased manner.

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    • He was banned for being very hostile a long time ago iirc. Also, putting the last for letters of the R word at the end of any word is taboo practice around here.

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    • Seems to me like he hasn't changed any then.

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    • So he hasn't changed since his last ban nor is he showing that he is willing to change? Unless someone can give me a reason for him not to get banned, I say he should be banned again.

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    • If he isn't willing to change, has been banned before, and refuses to evolve or change, Ban Him

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    • Yeet 

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Samhyde1?useskin=oasis

      Should be kept a eye on or warned, because he has recently ignored the dragon ball profile in a very cliche way.

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    • Arthur is likely correct about our GoW statistics, and possibly about Mario having no coherent canon, but he should still make an effort to be polite, so a strict warning would be appropriate at least.

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    • He's literally been banned for his past behavior and nothing changed. He won't listen to a warning.

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    • This can be his final warning, if he immediately goes back to being hostile after this warning; a ban is in order.

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    • Medeus makes sense to me.

      Is some staff member here willing to apply the warning?

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    • Ill do it

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    • Thank you.

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    • I think this user might be a troll + 2 necros not sure so I will leave it at the discretion of staff members https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:KadeXshidO?useskin=oasis

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    • I'll warn them (I wouldn't call what they did strictly trolling).

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote: I'll warn them (I wouldn't call what they did strictly trolling).

      Thats why i said might and leave it at the discretion of mods, cus i was not 100%

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    • No worries, thanks for bringing it up. If they continue this behavior make sure to report it again here.

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    • Hello.

      Somebody claiming to be MckMal just contacted me and told me that he has disbanded his troll group:

      https://slav.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:447

      As you can see above, he wants a thread removed. Is it fine if we do so?

      Note that this is definitely not an invitation to start any controversial discussions or drama. Just calmly evaluate this please.

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    • Going to bed, but I want to get my points out first.

      1. Mckmal isn't even mentioned in the thread he linked, so I'm not sure why he'd want it gone. Also, the thread was literally discussing trolls doing illegal actions, which makes me question the motives behind this.

      2. "Recent decrease in troll raids"? Troll raids come and go all the time, to the point where I usually just forget about them after they're over. He could've disbanded his group years ago and I wouldn't have noticed.

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    • Why exactly should we care about the wishes of Mckmal or whoever the troll is? Ignore it. Don't see why the thread should be removed.

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    • Is Mckmal like an old big troll?

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    • I suppose that AKM is probably correct.

      @TOAA

      No extra discussion please, but yes, he used to help with raiding us regularly for a few years.

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    • It does make me curious as to why on Earth someone would actually ask for that thread to be deleted.

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    • Probably because it disreputes him as being in association with child porn posters, it's my guess at least :V

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    • But, again, he wasn't even mentioned there.

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    • It's more so other trolls have been; and/or someone who impersonated him. But anyway, as said above, you should avoid talking about that to potentially avoid baiting more trolls.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4611214

      Can someone please close this thread? High 1-A vs 1-A that's kinda low tier is a major mismatch

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    • He's an alt of Livinmeme who has been inactive for over a month. It might have been a "Forgot his password" scenario.

      Also, I closed the stomp thread.

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    • Honestly, this speaks for itself.

      There comes a point where a user is going out of his way to be as rude and passive-aggressive as possible that something has to be done.

      Has he been given an official warning, yet?

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    • Ant has given him a warning before, it seems. Clearly, he didn't care.

      Ban him for a month and see if he shapes up.

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    • A month sounds fine, given how being mildly annoying isn't the worst offense in the world.

      ... as I like to say, throw him out the airlock!~

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    • Feel free to throw me out the airlock, that would give me more motivation to finish this

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    • What did he do exactly? Wasn't that a fun and games thread?

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    • Well, it doesn't seem particularly harmful to me, but maybe a slap on the wrist ban would be warranted if you have been warned earlier.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      What did he do exactly? Wasn't that a fun and games thread?

      Read the threads, he was very much doing it in a mocking manner.

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    • Being warned already in  the past isn't something that will protect you from a second warning, its the same situation with the misconduct in football, a yellow card will be the first warning, a second yellow card will dissmiss the player for a time and a third time it will be a red card. Another thing is that the warning has been give to you in May and we're in Septmenber which is 4 months going for 5 months.

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    • Okay. So either 1 month or a second stronger warning then. If we choose the former, what should I write as a justification?

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    • Anything works for a justification

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    • I have blocked him for a month. If he continues to be sarcastic and disrespectful when he comes back, we can ban him for a longer period of time.

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    • I'm not writing this as a rule violation report, but I feel I can be a good character witness for Ican't.  I've been dealing with him for several weeks now both on and off this wiki and his behavior doesn't change regardless of where he's at or the circumstances surrounding him, whether it's here, Discord, or CSAP. 

      Literally every time I or somebody else debated with him it would devolve into passive-aggressive taunting, sarcasm, and insults towards people who don't agree with his absurd Goosebumps scaling (Which he can't make up his mind on, as he rates it as 1-A, High 1-A, and 0 simultaneously).  Whenever he's asked for proof he tells people to do their own research on the matter.  Whenever he's in a debate his tactics include straw-manning, stonewalling, ad-hominem, and straight-up ignoring what people are telling him.

      I'm also convinced that the only reason he even says Goosebumps is as high as it is, is to try and exploit the tiering system.  I quote: I agree on one canon Goosebumps but Goosebumps is only crazy outversal via Dimensional Scaling. This is consistent with the fact that he once created a profile that he rated as "10-B, High 1-A using Dimensional Scaling" (though that was on CSAP, not VSBW, and it was deleted for not matching quality standards).

      So yeah... I can guarantee that he will continue this behavior even after he comes back.

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    • So we'll ban him once he comes back and starts up with it again.

      Even if I ultimately think it's pointless, I think it's only fair to at least give him a chance.

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    • I agree that's only fair.  I'm not saying that you shouldn't give him a chance, it's not my place to decide either way, but I'm confident in my ability to act as a character witness for him and I do believe that he will throw that chance away, even if it isn't immediately after.

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    • Thank you. Your input is heavily appreciated.

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    • We can ban him again later, yes.

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    • Sooooo there's a thread regarding characters who are suffering, and there's a somewhat heated debate there regarding something Earl said that's sort of insensitive. Should we close it or give a warning before it potentially goes off the rails?

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    • I don’t see what Earl did that was report worthy

      Very Ignorant sure, but not report worthy

      I don’t see the issue with either.

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    • Because people, myself included, got offended and we don't want this to devolve into a flame war.

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    • Same, I don't see any issue with what he said. It may sound rough but it was just an example if you mean the "doctor example". I agree with Schnee.

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    • What did he say exactly? Cus I dont see anything

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    • Schnee One
      Schnee One removed this reply because:
      20:21, September 24, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Earl is harmless in general by my experience.

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    • Guys, Earl isn't the point. The point is "should we close this thread before it spirals into a flame war?". The fact that Earl happened to say something to cause it is besides the point.

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    • Schnee One wrote: On second hand he called the people who can't handle boredom without meaning as "Weak"

      This is way too far

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    • Judging from what I am seeing here this thread seems like a shit show that should likely be closed before it escalates any further.

      Edit: Nvm Ant already closed it.

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    • Just because Earl went a bit far on his examples and being more rough, it shouldn't close the thread for the other members. Just tell to Earl to not post there anymore and it will work.

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    • That's not just "being more rough"

      Earl basically said that people are only depressed because they are "weak"

      That's the definition of a slap in the face

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    • Wright: "@Earl You do realize long bouts of having nothing to do and no one to talk too can cause depression, right? You're being uncomfortably dismissive right now. "

      Earl: "Cough* Introvers laugh at those rookie excuses *cough* "



      This not going "a bit far", it's going WAY TOO FAR

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    • Just don't take everything that other people say at face value, ignore them if needed. It's expected on top 5 something that some people will be more anoying for other people. Yes, I call that "more rough" because It's not something truly serious...if people take everything seriously what's on internet then they should stop going on such threads. Debate and talk whatever you want and if something like that happens (the debate with Earl) then just ignore it and treat it like a fart, just release it and don't put on your eyes. That thread is for fun in the end and for people to debate through how much "suffering" different characters have went through.

      It's Earl's oppinion and perspective, you can't change it, if he deems people as that then it's his problem and if he continues then a warning should be given.

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    • Yes, Earl said a rather callous and ignorant thing, but it was about fiction, not real people.

      Anyway, since the thread seemed like a too sensitive topic, keeping it open would just tempt fate for it to get increasingly worse over time, so keeping it closed seems best.

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    • @Zara

      Ignoring the problems only makes them worse

      If a person has an opinion that is extremlly offensive to other people, they need to be punished for it

      @Antvasima

      What he was respondeding to was about IRL stuff, so no, it wasn't just fiction

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    • Overlord775 wrote: Wright: "@Earl You do realize long bouts of having nothing to do and no one to talk too can cause depression, right? You're being uncomfortably dismissive right now. "

      Earl: "Cough* Introvers laugh at those rookie excuses *cough* "



      This not going "a bit far", it's going WAY TOO FAR

      This isn't annoying. This being a dick. People weren't annoyed, they were offended.

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    • I don’t think the thread should be closed yet. It just got derailed slightly and it was a comment that wasn’t well thought out. No need to close down the whole thread when no one else has been creating problems.

      Overall ignoring that particular instance there weren’t any issues. If something else does happen then I agree with closing it.

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    • I didn't read the thread after I posted my example on their, but based on what I've seen, that was indeed going to far. Also, we can say "don't take everything at face value", but the simple fact is people have different thresholds for what they accept from others. The simple fact is that this went beyond just "giving an opinion and perspective", which might I add is not a suitable defense, and delved into possibly offending and insulting people with certain mental health issues. Whether this was on purpose/the intent or not I cannot say and I'm not getting further involved past this comment.

      Regardless, everyone here should just let it go and move on, less we turn this thread into a mess as well.

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    • Nico-v11 wrote: I don’t think the thread should be closed yet. It just got derailed slightly and it was a comment that wasn’t well thought out. No need to close down the whole thread when no one else has been creating problems.

      Overall ignoring that particular instance there weren’t any issues. If something else does happen then I agree with closing it.

      He doubled down on it when called out and the argument kept escalating.

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    • Look, as I mentioned in the thread, if anybody here should get offended about stigma regarding the suffering of people with mental illness, it is me, given that what I went through several years ago was not fun at all to say the least, but I am not part of the thought police. We cannot ban an otherwise mostly harmless member just because he was being a dumbass in this particular instance. Freedom means having to endure views that we personally disagree with, or we turn into intolerant tyrants.

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    • Overlord775
      Overlord775 removed this reply because:
      e
      21:02, September 24, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Anyway, let's drop this issue please. At worst we might give Earl an instruction to avoid controversial potentially drama-inciting statements in the future.

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    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Ant, what he did is essentially Hate Speach, which violates Fandom Guidelines and should get him immidiatly banned
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    • I agree with Ant there. It was an ignorant opinion of someone who probably hasn’t experienced such things or is uninformed about the effects of isolation or boredom has on the mind. I don’t think he was trying to actively hurt others and we should just let him know that these do in fact hurt people deeply (I know many people in such situations, myself a year ago as well).

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    • It is not hate speech to state that you think that different people are differently strong in handling the problems life throws at them in a more crude manner. I don't want this community to turn completely intolerant of diverse viewpoints, and only allow absolute conformism. It would chase away lots of generally productive and useful members.

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    • Also, again, if anybody should be oversensitive about this sort of issue, it is me, and yet I am not, because freedom of thought and speech are the foundations for democracy, and more important than my personal biases and traumas. It is fine to give Earl a warning, but instantly getting rid of a longtime and usually helpful member that others might dislike for different reasons, and want to get rid of because of them, doesn't sit well with me at all.

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    • Calling someone "Weak" because they have certain factors that makes them depress is Hate Speach

      Also, Earl is NOT an "a longtime and usually helpful member" he has a long history of wank, downplay and spreading misinformation about verses

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    • A warning sounds fine. I'm not a person who will run out of my way to defend Earl, and I am more than use to Earl saying stupid shit, but this isn't quite a reason to ban him just yet.

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    • @Overlord775

      No, hate speech would be to say that all mentally ill people should be rounded up and exterminated, not just to say that different people have different amounts of mental strength.

      It is actually rationally true that some people can handle stress that others are overwhelmed by far more easily. This applies to anything from war situations to amusement parks.

      He expressed himself in a crude and callous manner, yes, but we should not instantly ban people just because we personally disagree with them. If that was not the case, I would have got rid of you a long time ago for example.

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    • Warning as well.

      The wording certainly treads a little too far beyond my tastes in the "having an opinion" category, and insulting a category of people as openly as calling them "weak" for things beyond their control leaves a real bad taste on my mouth, but jumping to a ban off of this is not a good precedent in my eyes.

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    • Don't post hate speech

      • We don't allow homophobic language, ethnic slurs or religious hate. That means no language or content that encourages hatred or violence, or that disparages others on the basis of their race, gender, sexuality, religion, country of origin and so on.
      • The context of language can matter - what's OK in rap lyrics might not be OK on an image caption. But even casual "I didn't mean it offensively" language can be offensive, so don't do it. And remember, an image of a burning cross might be OK illustrating a history wiki article, but not as your wiki's background image.

      So, I'd need a citation for where he's saying shit based on race, gender, sexuality, or religion, and also a citation for where he encourages hatred for subsets to actually do shit.

      Earl's statement is a pretty bad take, but it doesn't fit the definition of hate speech that FANDOM's set. Just warn him, close the thread, and be done with it.

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    • Yeah, let's just split the difference and warn him.

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    • I agree with Wokistan and Lancelot.

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    • Is somebody willing to give him a warning?

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    • Late, but skimming the thread, I don't think Earl meant anything hateful or ableist by his comments. He was just being a fool. He should be let off with a warning imo.

      Note that I'm saying this is as someone who has suffered from depression.

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    • Like I said its not anything report worthy, just a really, REALLY ignorant belief

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    • It does show a great ignorance of about aspects of psychology, but is unrelated to the rules.

      Still, let's best to drop any further commentary and just wait to see who could give the warning.

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    • I had a feeling this might happen. And I do agree what ant said earlier, saying a different point of view in a rather raw manner being report worthy is eh.

      Just to say something though since I seem to have been misunderstood. I didn't mean boredom doesn't lead to any of those effects, or that it is not any form of suffering. I do acknowledge that, it's a fact. But what I don't agree with is putting it so far above any other kind of suffering. I get it is hard but I'll never agree to it being the worst form of suffering. Which was what i meant with the "agree to disagree" in that thread.

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    • Perhaps thats what you meant, but you worded it poorly.

      Nobody misunderstood you, they understood what you were saying 

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    • Also since I saw someone mention it earlier. The whole "weak" thing I said about suffering.

      Weak is relative, it depends on who you're comparing someone to. I even said this in the thread iirc "the people who endure that same suffering but don't care are strong" which is like saying "are you calling X weak" to which the answer would depend on who you compare him. There is no weak or strong without setting sth to compare it to.

      I thought my explanation on that in the thread sufficed, but I hope this one does a better job at it. That's all I had to say on what happened.

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    • The matter is decided, and your explanations have nothing to do with whether this deserves a warning or not, or worse. Let's not bloat up the thread anymore.

      If you have to do this, best do it elsewhere.

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    • It was to answer the ppl who asked not to make change the punishment, doesn't really matter also I edited the last post

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    • A dude named Uchiha Nata is being very rude. He is calling people like things False profit and irrelevant shit. He should be banned for his rude and innapropriate.

      original thread

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    • I see his discussion posts; and yeah, the dude looks like a total jerk. All he ever says is "u f***ing dumb @$$ dude" and all that. We don't need anyone who talks like that constantly bombarding the discussion posts, so I'd support a permaban if everyone's alright with that.

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    • @DarkDragonMedeus Yeah I'm all right with that

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    • I have done so.

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    • WOO HOO!

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    • Just commenting so we have record that I permabanned TGOP for loli porn avatar. Seems to coincide with some shit on JBW. Probably about to get fandomed. 

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    • Wokistan wrote: Just commenting so we have record that I permabanned TGOP for loli porn avatar. Seems to coincide with some shit on JBW. Probably about to get fandomed. 

      Why the fuck would he do that?!

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    • Maybe he got hacked?

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    • Pro always had this habit of light-trolling and posting softcore pornography whenever he had the chance.

      Not going to miss the guy at all.

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    • Check JBW and you may get an idea why. Now lets not fill this thread with more speculations.

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    • Hmm. Despite his light trolling, he was recurrently helpful and had a lot of edits. How bad was what he posted, and what was the reason?

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    • His pfp was one loli eating out another loli, and he just got FANDOM'd anyways. 

      Think he got mad that some jbw mods removed some questionable images from one of his pages, so he switched his pfp over to that. Kinda makes no sense to me, but it is what it is.

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    • Okay. That was extremely stupid and tasteless of him, but there is nothing that we can do about it.

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    • A spiteful idiot trying to get back at the mods he thought wronged him by switching his pfp to something which would have him blocked across the entire network is what this is.

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    • Wokistan
      Wokistan removed this reply because:
      we should probably not do that
      23:10, September 25, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • @Crabwhale

      I suppose so.

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    • @Schnee

      No gloating please. It is unprofessional.

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    • It is very unprofessional, I will stop

      Sorry guys!

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    • Thank you.

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