## FANDOM

25,826 Pages

• Antvasima closed this thread because:
11:02, May 7, 2020

Heracles/Hercules is currently rated as 6-C for holding up the sky. However, unlike the Riordanverse, the sky was not dropped onto him. He simply took the weight from Atlas, then tricked Atlas into taking the sky back. As we agreed a while ago, lifting strength does not scale to attack potency anymore.

We should probably try calculating the mountain busting calculation.

• I think we agreed that lifting strength doesn't equate to AP if it isn't in a rapid motion, so yeah, this downgrade is fine.

Which mountain did he blow up BTW?

• Idk, I don't remember that, can someone provide the text for that feat?

• Either way, if the mountain is pretty large, I bet it'd be a good chance to get back to Tier 6.

• OK so he apparently blew up the mountain that united Spain and Gibraltar

• That seems to be a real life mountain, is there a size for that?

• You could try using the distance of the pillars of Heracles?

Idk

• If lifting strength doesn't scale anymore then sure, downgrading seems fine

• Do you know how big is the mountain he destroyed?

• Hellbeast1 wrote:
You could try using the distance of the pillars of Heracles?

Idk

That's 23 kmÂ if that's the case.

• An explosion that big is 7-A, but idk if it was an explosion.

• Pretty sure Hercules smashed it with his bare hands. Try frag and v. frag as your ends.

• What shape's the mountain though.

• looks like a mix between a pyramid and a hemisphere.

• Using 23 km as the diameter - 11.5 km as radius = 1,150,000 cc. According to ourÂ Mountain_and_Island_level_requirementsÂ it uses a conical shape where r = h.

Volume of Cone: pi*r^2*h/3 = 3.141592654*1.15e+6^2*1.15e+6/3 = 1.59266e+18 cc

Fragmentation: 1.59266e+18 cc * 8 J/cc = 1.27413e+19 J (High 7-AÂ /Â Large Mountain Level)

Violent Fragmentation: 1.59266e+18 cc * 69 J/cc = 1.09893e+20 J (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

Pulverization: 1.59266e+18 cc * 214 J/cc = 3.40829e+20 J (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

I think.

• Fragmentation should be probably be used if we don't know the details of the feat.

Mind putting the feat in a blog?

• Sure, I can do that. Just the Fragmentation calc?

• I think you should put all ends in the blog first.

• Okay. Will do.

• Done. Should I post it on the Calc Eval board? Is so, what Priority should I give it?

• 3

• Looks like just 7-A using a height of 500 m for the peak.

• This seems fine to me as well.

• Where does 500 m come from?

• Guestimation? The average of the three peaks involved comes out to ~ 490 m. If you think a different number is better though, it wouldn't be difficult to change it.

• I suppose it should be a fair enough guess.

• Has the calculation been placed in a blog post?

• You know, after looking at the three sources referenced on Wikipedia, it looks like it's 2v1 in favor of some kind of continental movement, rather than mountain smashing. I posted the three sources in the comment section of theÂ blog. I don't know how to calc pushing continents though.

• Seneca, Hercules OetaeusÂ (1240) Did rocky Calpe, shattered by these hands, Let out the sea?. [This one seems to support Herc Smash.]

Seneca, Hercules FurensÂ (235ff) he clove the mountains on either hand and, rending the barrier, made a wide path for Oceanâ€™s rushing stream.Â [Clove is past tense of Cleave, which means split in two. This would be Herc Smashes the mountains and opens the Strait of Gibraltar.]

Diodorus Siculus [4.18.5] "And since he wished to leave upon the ocean a monument which would be had in everlasting remembrance, he built out both the promontories, they say, to a great distance; consequently, whereas before that time a great space had stood between them, he now narrowed the passage, in order that by making it shallow and narrowÂ he might prevent the great sea-monsters from passing out of the ocean into the inner sea, and that at the same time the fame of their builder might be held in everlasting remembrance by reason of the magnitude of the structures." [Pulls the continents together an unknown distance].

"Some authorities, however, say just the opposite, namely, that the two continents were originally joined and that he cult a passage between them, and that by opening the passage he brought it about that the ocean was mingled with our sea." [Pushes the continents apart].

• I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

• So he ripped the mountain in half?

• It seems he either pushed two mountains hard enough they ended up 23 km apart, or moved the continents themselves, depending on how you want to take it.

• bump

• This is tricky, since there are multiply sources stating Herc did different feats. Hell, one of the sources you posted even said they don't know if he pulled Africa and Europe together or apart. I would say pick the feat that hasÂ the lowest AP to be on the safe side (Which is probably the moutain smashing feat)

• In the first depiction I ever saw of this feat, he pushed Spain from Africa to create the Strait of Gigraltar, other sources like Wikipedia sayÂ he smashed through it. The Strait of GibraltarÂ is 36 miles (58 km) long and narrows to 8 miles (13 km) in widthÂ betweenÂ Point MarroquÃ­ (Spain) and Point Cires (Morocco), so that little gap was once filled with rock before Hercules smashed it into nothing as we see today.

Violent fragmentation or pulverization seem more fitting since it implies there was nothing left of what joined Spain and Africa.

• bump

• I did a rough calc of the landmass consisting of Spain and Portugal being moved at 13 m/s. The KE was nearly 2.34e20 J (6-C or Island level). I will later put it into a blog. What should the timeframe for this moving feat really be anyway?

• Why 13 m/s?

• How'd you figure out the mass of Portugal and Spain, too? Separately, as well... The two are attached and are a peninsula. Could the collective mass of the Iberian Peninsula not be calculated (or found)?

• I just took 13m/s arbitrarily for speed. I first got the total area of both countries, added them and multiplied by 840m (elevation taken from [[1]]). That gave me the volume. The total mass was calculated with density of Earth being 5.5 g/cc.

At this speed, the feat would take like 1000 seconds or approx. 18 minutes.

• Fair enough

What begun as a downgrade has seemingly turned into justification for Heracles being Island level lol

• You watch Herc get upgraded from this

• Wyvern7600 wrote:

I first got the total area of both countries, added them and multiplied by 840m (elevation taken from [[1]]). That gave me the volume. The total mass was calculated with density of Earth being 5.5 g/cc.

This metod is flawed as it doesn't take in consideration France, which by being directly above Spain would have had to be moved too

• Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan wrote: The curse of Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan downgrades: They always turn into upgrades

Explain the MCU then

• Overlord775 wrote:
Wyvern7600 wrote:

I first got the total area of both countries, added them and multiplied by 840m (elevation taken from [[1]]). That gave me the volume. The total mass was calculated with density of Earth being 5.5 g/cc.

This metod is flawed as it doesn't take in consideration France, which by being directly above Spain would have had to be moved too

And Portugal and (snicker) Andorra, don't forget about themÂ :P

Though I feel like calculating the whole mass of Europe (since if we go with the idea that he not only pushed the Iberian Peninsula but anything that was connected to the peninsula as well) would be a little too much work

• So if we are including everything connected to the Iberian peninsula in this, we might have to include not just Europe but Asia as well. Wikipedia mentions that in the modern sense of continent, Eurasia is easily identified as one. The boundaries between Asia and Europe are based only on cultural/historical reasons, they say.

I will try to calculate the KE of moving Eurasia and Africa then.

• Well there are different continental systems, sometimes Europe and Asia are united into Eurasia (we consider them separate over here in Europe), North America and South America are united into America (which is how it is in most countries outside the USA). Technically Africa is connected to Asia as well, so it's a bit iffy.

I personally thought filling the space in the Strait of Gibraltar and calculating the AP needed to destroy that filled space would be more fitting. It will lead to less overly high numbers.

• One thing that I don't understand is that his mortal form's durability is currently rated Island level with the explanation "Survived arm wrestling with his father who is as strong as him". This doesn't make sense since Zeus is High Universe level.

• I guess they meant Zeus was using the same level of strength as Heracles' mortal form?

Did the arm wrestling happen before Heracles died and entered Olympus? I don't remember

• Are you sure that means Zeus and not the human that raised HeraclesÂ ?

• Overlord775 wrote:
Are you sure that means Zeus and not the human that raised HeraclesÂ ?

Unless the human that raised him was capable of pulling continents together then I think it's referring to Zeus. Whether that's correct or not is up for discussion.

• Google: Average Elevation of Morocco - 909 m. Google: Average Elevation of Spain - 650 m. AverageÂ Elevation Above Sea Level (909+650) / 2 = 779.5 m. Google: Strait of Gibraltar (Mean Depth) - (1198 ft) 365.1504 m. Total Average Height = 779.5+365.1504 = 1,144.6504 m. [or 1,144.5 m using approximations]

Strait of GibraltarÂ : Length: 58 km, Western Width (Cape Trafalgar (north) and Cape Spartel (south)): 43 km, Minimum Width (Point MarroquÃ­, SpainÂ and Point Cires, Morocco): 13 km, Eastern Width (Pillars of Hercules; Rock of Gibraltar, Either Mount Hacho or Jebel Moussa (Musa)): 23 km.

The Strait of Gibraltar is a fairly odd shape, but someone could try and get an area, apply the total height, and calc a destruction value from that. [The 43 km, 13 km, and 23 km all appear to be approximations since Britannica also lists the mean depth as (1200 ft) 365 m].

Â  Â Â

{The Area in Question ~>}

• You can get a good idea of the area with Google MapsÂ

• Did not know you could do that.

So 1500.41 km^2 =Â 1,500,440,000 m^2Â

V = 1,500,440,000 m^2 * 1,144.6504 m = 1.71748e+12 m^3 * 1e6 = 1.71748e+18 cc

Fragmentation:Â 1.71748e+18 cc * 8 J/cc = 1.37398e+19 J (High 7-AÂ /Â Large Mountain Level+)

Violent Fragmentation:Â 1.71748e+18 cc * 69 J/cc = 1.18506e+20 J (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

Pulverization:Â 1.71748e+18 cc * 214 J/cc = 3.67541e+20 J (6-CÂ /Â Island Level+)

Edit: I got 1644.37 km^2 when including the bay? (I think it's called that). [Doesn't change a whole lot]

V = 1,644,370,000 m^2 * 1,144.6504 mÂ  = 1.88223e+12 m^3 * 1e6 = 1.88223e+18 cc

Frag:Â 1.88223e+18 cc * 8 J/cc = 1.50578e+19 JÂ (High 7-AÂ /Â Large Mountain Level+)

V. Frag:Â 1.88223e+18 cc * 69 J/cc = 1.29874e+20 JÂ (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

Pulv:Â 1.88223e+18 cc * 214 J/cc = 4.02797e+20 JÂ (6-CÂ /Â Island Level+)

• v. frag or pulv workÂ best imo, since from a "realistic" point of view, Heracles left nothing from whatever was standing in his way

• I'd go for V. Frag or maybe an overall average of the three.

Avg (1500.41 km^2):Â 1.66595e20 JÂ  (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

Avg (1644.37 km^2): 1.82576e20 JÂ (6-CÂ /Â Island Level)

• I also agree with V. frag, plus even the normal frag is dangerously close to Island level.

• I'll write up a new blog and put the V. Frag in a conclusion when I get a chance then.

• so Heracles was downgraded from Island Level to Island level

w o w

• Funnily enough, it's even higher than the previous rating.

• Nice lol

• Is there anything left to discuss? If not, I'll let Ant know.

The feat should apply to both AP and Striking Strength.

• Durability too.

• I didn't know it that applied since he just dished out the hit and didn't tank it. But I'm game for applying it to durability also.

• I think he can trade blows with comparable foes.

• ChemistKyle89 wrote:
I didn't know it that applied since he just dished out the hit and didn't tank it. But I'm game for applying it to durability also.

Newton's third law dictates that your physical punches scale to your durability, as every action has an opposite reaction of equal magnitude AKA your striking strength scales to your own durability by default unless shown otherwise (AKA if the force of your own punch doesn't shatter your arm, you scale).

• Bump has this been applied?

• bump

• Anything left to do here?

• Applying the calc to his page ofc

• I thought it was done.

• Huh. Nvm then.

• Yeah, it's been applied. Should we close this thread then?