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  • Rise of Skywalker base Rey vs Disney Canon Anakin

    Speed equal

    REYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
    Anakin
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    • Mareey Sue is more powerful but Anakin massively outskills, so he just does a real jump flip into her and cuts her in 2.

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    • fair enough

      the REAL chosen one FRA

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    • Is she more powerful? This isn't her buffed by jedi spirits

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    • Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.

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    • When was it said that he was above Vader?

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    • Kylo Ren was never as strong as Vader. It's an important part of his character, he never reached Vader's level. 

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    • I dunno, Rey got trained by Leia. And Anakin got legit oitdueled by obi wan

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    • How very unreliable. Leia's only feat was to best Luke once and complete her Jedi training, then she did nothing about it for years. Both Anakin and Obi Wan have many feats far above that and their fight was extremely even.

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    • The Mustafar duel ended up with Obi-Wan being victorious only because of Vader's overconfidence (and stupidity for that matters). Leia is strong but at the time she trained Rey she was old and hadn't practiced the Force or the lightsaber for a long time, even more so than Obi-Wan when he spent 20 years hiding on Naboo. Now of course, she would still have a notable degree of skills but still, can't be comparable to a Anakin who was at his peak at the time.  

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    • Fairly certain there is a statement from George or the choreo director for RotS that puts Anakin and Yoda in the same ballpark and above the likes of Windu skill wise which means he utterly dominates in a saber fight.

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    • Honestly, i don't think Anakin can be compared to Windu or even Yoda, no. That statement isn't probably canon. However, Anakin is superior to almost all the Jedi of his time with the exception of Obi-Wan, Windu and Yoda.

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    • I can see the argument for him being below Yoda and Windu but why would he not be superior to Obi-Wan? We know for a fact that Anakin was ridiculously nerfed against Obi-Wan and still matched him in skill despite having similar stats and countered. Then there is every fight with Dooku with Anakin doing far better than Obi. Anakin > Dooku > drugged and blind Dooku > Asajj and 2 Nightsisters > Asajj who is always comparable to Obi. Lets not forget that Obi is comparable to (but better than) Grievous who even Ashoka can fight by the time she left the Order and Anakin is far beyond her.

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    • I never said he was below Obi-Wan, i just said he wasn't exactly above him. They're comparable to me (though Anakin was getting stronger and stronger at the time of his fall) otherwise Anakin/Vader wouldn't have lost his duel onf Mustafar and would have immediately defeated him. 

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    • In terms of skills, Anakin should theorically stomp (although Rey DID defeat a retired Luke). But in terms of 'raw power', Luke outright said he saw the Force in Her only another time (with Kylo Ren)

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    • Anakin broke through Dooku's stance and defenses, and Dooku easily outskilled Obi-Wan.

      The only display of skill by Rey and Kylo wouldn't be enough for them to outskill a Padawan. They basically had the skill of two 8 year olds who just found two sticks in their backyard and started hamming against each other.

      About Force prowess, I don't really know.

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    • Xantospoc Was he really talking about Rey ? Cause according to most sources, he was talking about what he felt in Ben (the Dark Side) before thinking about killing him in his sleep and apparently, the other time he saw that kind of power, it was when Palpatine was cooking him on the DS. 

      ArgosaxDespair : I can't disagree with that Rey and even Kylo for an extent but at least he had some degree of actual real skills. It's shown during the duel onf the Death Star. He's extremely calm and composed, has no difficulty to counter Rey's attack and Rey is on the defensive for almost the entire fight and the only reason she stabbed him is because of Leia. Then again, i don't really disagree wth you in general (Rey has basically the level of a starting Padawan). Especially since the duel has almost no choregraphy at all.

      Well the Mustafar duel shows that Anakin and Obi-Wan are pretty equals at least in terms of lightsaber skills. Heck, the brief Force Push "duel" they have shows that they're also kind of comparable in terms of Force power (though it seems Obi-Wan has more difficulties to keep up). 

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    • IMHO Anakin was nerfed in that duel. We know that Anakin is superior in both skill and Force powers to people above Obi-Wan, and even Obi-Wan states that Anakin was stronger. Anakin was either nerfed or the conflict within him in Mustafar made him weaker than before.

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    • Eficiente wrote: Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.

      Wasn’t he outright implied to be stronger then Kylo?

      I’d vote Anakin though for superior experience/skill

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    • Ani outskills Rey FRA

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote:
      IMHO Anakin was nerfed in that duel. We know that Anakin is superior in both skill and Force powers to people above Obi-Wan, and even Obi-Wan states that Anakin was stronger. Anakin was either nerfed or the conflict within him in Mustafar made him weaker than before.

      Anakin is stronger but not more skilled. Obi-Wan may be the most skilled Lightsaber duelist in all SW, the part of their characters where the latter always strategies things whereas Anakin doesn't care to take some unnecessary damage in battle should say something, to avoid a more complex argument.

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    • @Eficiente, let's say Obi-Wan is more skilled, smarter and experienced even though he fought enemies below Anakin to a stalemate, somehow avoiding Anakin's hax of overcoming even the universe after becoming enraged, he would still lose in a Force confrontation due to Anakin being stronger. Their Force powers are equal in the duel, and that's the inconsistent part of the duel because suddenly Obi-Wan is equal to Anakin in everything, even matching him in saber skills, which was unreal because Anakin had better feats in the Clone Wars.

      I don't know if this is part of the canon or not, but I remember reading about Dooku, Yoda, Palpatine and Windu being the best duelists in Star Wars.

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    • I have no idea what you mean by "somehow avoiding Anakin's hax of overcoming even the universe after becoming enraged". He lost in a Force confrontation, they both used the Force on each other in the duel, got blown away and Anakin recovered faster and quickly approached Obi-Wan with flips to attack him, only then Obi-Wan recovered to dodge that. Their gap in power is not super massive so this is good. I feel like the "he fought enemies below Anakin to a stalemate" is a bit misleading, but to argue all the context that would be would be derailment for this thread.

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    • Anakin FRA.

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    • Sorry, I should've been more specific. Anakin's rage boosts usually makes him far stronger than characters that could match him before his rage boost, and Obi-Wan appears to keep up with Anakin even while Anakin is being boosted by anger during the entire fight.

      There would be no Force confrontation for that long. One could make an excellent argument on how Obi-Wan is more skilled, but saying that Anakin's Force powers are only slightly superior to Obi-Wan's would go against the entirety of the Clone Wars.

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    • It is assumed Anakin is stronger and *would have* won if Obi Wan did not get the high ground.

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    • Eficiente wrote:
      Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.

      What?

      No Canon Vader is Stronger than Kylo by a Bit

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    • Yeah, I got the stuff messed up there. My bad.

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    • The entire point about Kylo Ren is that he wants to reach Vader's level, something he never accomplished. He is powerful but never reached his grandfather level. That's, again, the entire point of the KR persona. Heck, even in terms of fighting skills and experience, Vader is far beyond his grandson (wich is...kind of logical considering how long he was trained both as a Jedi and as a Dark Lord of the Sith).

      As for the Mustafar duel....i don't have a definitvie answer. The theory that Anakin/Vader would have won without the higher ground is more or less is probably what would have happened anyway (some alternate versions of the fight shows this, like the non-canon ending in the PS2 video game where Vader dodge Obi-Wan strike while jumping and stabbs him in his back before he can truly react. Non-canon i know).

      My best theory about why Anakin/Vader didn't stomped Obi-Wan is basically the classic "Villains don't use their powers". Anakin/Vader almost only attack with his lightsaber (the Force push thing is literally the only moment where he uses the Force besides grabbing his lightsaber at another moment before that) and Obi-Wan was able to keep up because of his mastery over Soresu. The Force Push moment is likely (as i said) as classic moment where the villain doesn't use his full power (because he thinks he doesn't need to or because he wants to kill his enemy slowly) while the hero uses his full potential and the rest of the fight is just lightsaber, no Force powers. Anakin/Vader just used lightsaber, wich Obi-Wan can counter thanks to his own skills. Had he decided to use more or his Force powers, i think he would have won and without too much difficulties. So in truth, no real leveling explanation or things about Ob-Wan being more powerful or Anakin getting nerfed or something like that to me. Just the usual villain who doesn't use his full potential because he wants to kill his foe with his bare hands or something. 

      Again, it's just a theory and not necessarily the best one but i don't think there's a really good explanation for this anyway.     

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    • It also helps he and Kenobi were equal in skill with Kenobi’s defensive style being a big edge

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    • Anakin FRA

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    • Anakin bisects Rey for stealing his surname and "the Chosen One" title FRA

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    • Anakin easily stomps. 

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    • Anakin FRA. Meanwhile in another thread, others argue that Rey actually defeats Yoda. 

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    • Not the same Rey

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    • Anakin FRA.

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    • Anakin

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    • Anakin easily.



      Base Rey is almost Inquisitor level.

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    • Anakin would destroy Rey. Period

      Anakin FRA

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    • Anakin FRA until/unless proven wrong

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    • Camilopezo wrote:
      Anakin easily.


      Base Rey is almost Inquisitor level.

      No this Rey would Obliterate the Inquisitors lmfao

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    • He said base

      Mind you I disagree but that’s it just

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    • This is where the fun begins FRA

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    • You underestimate my power! FRA.

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    • Me seeing that this thread welcomes Prequel memes.

      A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one. 

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    • Hellbeast1 wrote:
      He said base

      Mind you I disagree but that’s it just

      Im referring to the Rey his talking about not Rey in the OP

      Base Rey obliterates the Inquisitors

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    • I'd argue that an Inquisitor would skill Rey to oblivion, honestly.

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    • Shadowbokunohero I wouldn't say that. Rey's lightsaber skills are basic at best even with her training and she is barely a match for Ezra but she's still skilled enough to put a good fight and is above them in terms of Force powers. Classic example of Unskilled but Strong (if you allow me to refer to TV Tropes). To summurize things, in terms of lightsaber skills, almost all Inquisitors can take her and defeat her but i think she can take and defeat them with the Force. 

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    • Anakin FRA

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    • Rey is a level inquisitor, the only reason she has beaten Kylo is because he did not fight seriously and other external factors.

      Although Rey has a bad reputation for being too OP, she really isn't that strong.

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    • Rey defeated Kylo in their first fight but he defeated her in their second duel. She only "won" because he was distracted by Leia's death and he clearly had no difficulties fighting her (and he's himself weaker than many other characters). So yeah, it's the opposite of being too OP (although again she's a case of Unskilled but Strong, she's really powerful but has low lightsaber skills). Anyway, i agree. Anakin is much more skilled and powerful than she is and by far.  

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    • Kylo had internal bleeding when he lost, Why people choose to ignore that.?

      Kylo >> Rey

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    • Because it's a good way to criticize the character. Not that Rey is an awful one but she has more than enough flaws to be criticized even without this.

      Yes. Of course he is superior. 

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    • Anyway, Anakin stomps and Rey is Inquisitor level.

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    • Of course. 

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    • Camilopezo wrote:
      Kylo had internal bleeding when he lost, Why people choose to ignore that.?

      Kylo >> Rey

      Because prior to that, he beat a much more combat trained Finn, even if you argue that it's a Lightsaber, he still should have far better training than some lonely woman on a desert planet.

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    • To summurize things about Kylo:

      1. He was heavily harmed (remember that Chewie's gun sends his targets flying when they're shot most of the time and yet he managed to tank that...sort of) .

      2.He was extremely disturbed by killing his own father

      3. He hadn't finished his training yet

      4. Finn had a very lucky shot, especially considering he probably never hold a sword-like weapon before.

      Also he easily defeats her in Episode IX (and gives us one of the only good scenes in the movie) and is only defeated at the end because of Leia (who apparently gathered her last stengths to say goodbuy...ok). Take note that none of this still excuse the fact that his lightsaber style is amateur in IX (seriously, he looks like he almost never fought before).  

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    • Kylo got hit by a Bowcaster while distracted, which is an extremely powerful weapon if hit directly, and was bleeding heavily through the entire fight.

      He was clearly not anywhere near peak condition. Even after force pushing Rey and fighting Finn, he still dominated Rey before she used the little knowledge of the force she had to overcome what little he had left.

      And as Arkham said, Kylo would've easily defeated her in Episode IX

      Point is, Rey really just can't touch Kylo Ren. Untrained or trained, the difference was only really closed in a straight fight because Kylo was either injured or distracted enough.

      Meanwhile, Anakin is repeatedly stated to be incredibly skilled, slaughted many Jedi with little to no effort, defeated Count Dooku in the end (who is on the same skill caliber with a lightsaber as Windu), and fought on even ground with Obi-Wan Kenobi, who outdid Darth Maul when enraged and was able to disarm General Grievous.

      The different is polarising. Even if Rey was more powerful, Anakin is so much more skilled than Rey could ever hope to be by episode IX

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    • The Chosen One FRA

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    • The one chosen FRA  - Lel 

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    • Anakin FRA

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    • Anakin fra. 

      Seriously the difference in skill and experience is huge. Anakin became one the best swordsman the Jedi Order had before its fall with more than a decade of experience putting it into practice and getting better.

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    • Anaking FRA and imma go calc the votes

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    • ah well this won't get added as i think it was pre-forum move

      anyways the count looks like this

      Rey:0

      Anakin: 20

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    • Good actor who was given bad lines and likely direction (Anakin) FRA

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    • Sorry but Rey is a Mary Sue and nothing people say will change that. Anakin wins. (Good actor who was given good lines and a better direction.)

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    • Nah, Rey isn't a Mary Sue. A MS isn't a character who is stronger than anybody else, its' a character who is perfect in every way, in terms of skills (wich she barely has), strength, morlaity, intelligence, strategy, etc, basically a character that can't make mistakes and she makes several. Doesn't mean she is better than Anakin (HE is better) or that the Sequels are masterpieces though, just that she isn't that bad of a character. Unlike Holdo for example. 

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    • So you mean MS characters aren't just character who are stronger than anybody else but are more than that right? 

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    • A Mary Sue isn't a character whose simply 'perfect in everyway'. That is the generalized definition that a lot of people pass off. A Mary Sue is a character who competence is not earned. A character who excells with little work, trial or setbacks. Or who breaks the rules of their verse without consequence or proper explanantion.

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    • I mean, I'd argue Rey doesn't really qualify under that definition either. After all, the only time she ever stood as an equal to Kylo was in ROS and she only won while he was distracted. She needed outside help not to ger stomped by Palpatine and had outside help in most of her fights with Ren (injured, emotionally conflicted, etc.) Her Force potential is at least explained by her being related to Sidious. Honestly, the only case I can recall of her being more competent than she should be was when she and Ren fought Snoke's guards, and even that's extremely tame by the standards of other protagonists in this series (Death Star run anybody?).

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    • The Wright Way wrote:

      I didn't say Rey was a Mary Sue. I simply saying that Mary Sues, aren't confined to being perfect in everyway. 

      I'm also a firm believer that one moment does not a Mary Sue make. For instance, you can cite the Death Run as a moment but that's basically countered by all of Empire Strikes Back. That was "Luke Skywalker-gets-served-humble-pie" the movie.

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    • I know. I wasn't addressing you specifically. More the debate of "is Rey a Mary Sue?". I also agree that Luke isn't one either, as even in ROTJ he still struggles against his foes and gets captured a lot.

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    • @ C2 of Omegon @Nathan36 Actually, i think this is pretty much what a MS. A MS is a character who is always right in every way, never makes a mistake, a character everybody in the story admires or considers to be brave, strong, beautiful, etc, including villains who otherwise don't care and will say something like "You're exceptional unlike your friends" and a character who is very important to the story and is seen as a central figure. Of course, it also means that she possesses skills beyond anyone else, doesn't have to work in any way to get whatever she wants and is stronger than everybody and if she ever makes a mistake, it's either utterly downplayed or the story says "It's not her fault, she has excuses" while other characters don't get a pass for their own mistakes and is always treated in a good way.

      Basically, it's a character the author almost forces readers/players/audiences to like and if a character doesn't like her, said character gets an extremely unsympathic portrayal. A good example of that could be Felicity from Arrow. 

      Of course, a MS is obviously female, the male variant is a Marty Stu. 

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    • C2 of Omegon wrote:
      A Mary Sue isn't a character whose simply 'perfect in everyway'. That is the generalized definition that a lot of people pass off. A Mary Sue is a character who competence is not earned. A character who excells with little work, trial or setbacks. Or who breaks the rules of their verse without consequence or proper explanantion.

      THis is the best explination of a Mary Sue that I've heard: A normal character bends to the laws of their own universe, while the laws of the universe bend to a Mary Sue. Things that would normally need to be worked for by others are handed to Mary Sues. And no matter what you say about Rey, her beating Kylo after he kicked Finn's ass is a definite Mary Sue moment.

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    • Mary Sue or not (personally, i don't consider her as a MS), Anakin wins. 

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    • PapiSavitar5025 wrote:

      C2 of Omegon wrote:
      A Mary Sue isn't a character whose simply 'perfect in everyway'. That is the generalized definition that a lot of people pass off. A Mary Sue is a character who competence is not earned. A character who excells with little work, trial or setbacks. Or who breaks the rules of their verse without consequence or proper explanantion.

      THis is the best explination of a Mary Sue that I've heard: A normal character bends to the laws of their own universe, while the laws of the universe bend to a Mary Sue. Things that would normally need to be worked for by others are handed to Mary Sues. And no matter what you say about Rey, her beating Kylo after he kicked Finn's ass is a definite Mary Sue moment.

      I don't see how an injured Force Sensitive beating a non-Force Sensitive and then barely losing to an Untrained Force Sensitive is indicative of anyone being a Mary Sue.

      1. Kylo was emotionally conflicted, which is commonly agreed to weaken Force Sensitives (as it is commonly the explanation we get when wondering how Obi Wan could contend so long with Anakin for instance).

      2. Kylo was injured by a blaster bolt and his wound was exposed to the freezing cold the whole fight. Normally a Sith would be able to draw on this but, again, emotionally conflicted. So it instead serves as a liability. Him being able to trounce Finn doesn't change that as most Force Sensitives can easily kick the hell out of non Force Sensitives in most circumstances. It's not like Finn was a Mandalorian or something. He was a Stormtrooper, one who previously got his ass kicked by another Stormtrooper no less.

      3. If I remember the dialogue right, Kylo was trying to turn her. "You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!" He wasn't giving his all to kill her.

      4. He still kicked her ass 90% of the fight. The only time she made any headway was when she gave her full trust over to the Force, which only worked to overpower Ren because of all the factors listed above. At best, this merely foreshadows the fact that she has the potential to match Kylo, which was the whole point of that scene to begin with.

      There's a reason we don't scale Force Awakens Rey to Kylo, but ignorance finds a way, I guess.

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    • Not to mention we see in episode 9 that Kylo is much stronger than her as he pretty handily kicked her ass (to the point he didn't even used his lightsaber at first). 

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    • The Wright Way wrote: snip

      Yet, with all of this holding him back, he still manages to kick Finn's ass. Someone who is much better trained than Rey in almost every single aspect, being a trained military soldier compared to some local desert girl who takes apart an empty star destroyer for business. Even that little bit of 'trust' in the force, I imagine wouldn't be a pickle compared to Ren, seeing as how he got numerous training from Luke and Snoke, so even if Rey was able to pool her trust into it, she's had exactly zero combat training what-so ever, and still manages to win, even if barely, she still did it against someone with numerous amount of skill in both The Force and Lightsaber combat.

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    • Sorry for the last comment on the end there. That was unprofessional of me.

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    • You're completely fine, it happens. 

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    • I think the major thing with Rey, is that, unlike Luke and Anakin, she hasn't really had a low point or has much critique in-verse as the Skywalker line has. All 3 have major similiarties but this helps to highlight differences. All 3 have reasons for their high potential, Anakin is Force anamoly, Luke is his son and Rey is a descendant of Palpatine. But after that...

      Anakin was a talented young Jedi, who let his prowess go to his head. Obi-Wan straight up calls him arrogant and he is. He was also emotionally unstable. This lead to him getting his arm cutoff by Dooku and ultimately slaughtering an entire village in rage. 

      Luke had talent but was over eager, impatient, reckless and naive. Han mentions it and Yoda reads his faults to his face. It takes his faliure to rescue Han and getting his hand lopped off to humble him. 

      Rey is talented but she doesn't really suffer from any negative traits. In lapse in her is due to outside forces: the revelations of her lineage, her fustration with Luke's defeated, cynical attitude. I mean, Rey's worse trait is that she's stubborn. Just compared to the others, she isn't someone with flaws iron out so that she may complete her journey. 

      I mean, just even looking over the Wookiepedia articles paint very different pictures. Rey's is like a glowing progress report, Luke's highlights his flaws, him overcoming those flaws and his good points while Anakin's walkthrough of how an essenitally good person descended into darkness. 

      Again, I don't think that Rey is a Mary Sue but I think the way that she was handled, plus having to basically serve as a foil to Kylo, really hampered her in the in the end and why I think she's very polarizing, like so much else in the Sequel Triology. 

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    • Should I close this? It seems kinda derailed.

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    • No, the arguments are remaining civil, though I do highly agree that we are sort of going off-topic here.

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    • I mean, it's already been over for several months...Anakin won like 20-0 back in May. At this point we're just kind of having conversation. So, if you close it, I'm just gonna probably make a thread about this discussion.

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    • Is the WIki Movement thing or whatever was happening still going on, or would we be able to add this to the profiles?

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    • I think we can still edit profiles for now (at least if we ask an admin to know if we can).  

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    • Eficiente wrote:
      Should I close this? It seems kinda derailed.

      Refer to the question above, please.

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    • No Rey is indeed a Mary Sue. And Luke isn’t a Mary Sue in ANH ESB and ROTJ. A Mary Sue is definitely shown because of their power, they don’t make mistakes and are loved by everyone. Rey fits the definition of Mary Sue perfectly. She isn’t balanced by any means. Ren was still completely healthy in that fight and he wasn’t even kicking her ass. All she did was say force and now she can beat Kylo. Have her lose in the first movie, make her train in the second movie, and THEN have her win in the third movie. Simple as that.

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    • While I agree with The Wright Way's arguments as for how the fight with Kylo Ren could make sense due to those factors, my issue with it is that the movie doesn't remotely tell us these things and instead simply presents us with a visual indication that Rey is suddenly better than him now. Sure they're fairly easy to intuit with some knowledge of Star Wars lore and effort put into analyzing the characters, but the movie fails the average viewer because of it. Even then, I can't say that Rey's comeback makes sense because there's no indication, visually or through any kind of exposition or foreshadowing, that what she's doing is giving her trust to the force. My honest takeaway from the scene was that apparently the longer she takes to blink the higher her power level gets.

      As a side note, is it a coincidence that both Rey and Captain Marvel were in a situation in which they were about to die to reasonably superior odds, then suddenly closed their eyes for a moment, opened them back up, and suddenly started kicking ass with no explanation as to how?

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    • Something to point out about Anakin is that, at least in legends, he hadn't eaten in days nor slept, just using the force to sustain himself. He was nerfed big time in that fight against Kenobi.

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    • Don't really think he was nerfed honestly. The fight doesn't end because one of them was stronger or more skilled, it ended because Anakin just got drunk with power.

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    • Yeah but it's still worth noting

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    • Even if he was drunk on power, he would've beaten Obi-Wan without that Nerf from being Tired and Hungry and if he didn't Jump. Like seriously, he only lost because he jumped and I doubt this works, but even that Anakin managed to pull of the jump in that one video game for the original Xbox.

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    • @Creaturemaster

      She literally closes her eyes and takes a deep focusing breath after audibly stating that she needs to trust in the Force. Not everything needs exposition. Visual story telling is a thing.

      @Bruce

      Legends statements are irrelevant to Disney Canon material.

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    • I don't remember her saying that, however it also has been a while since I've seen the movie so I could very well be wrong. I just remember that being a problem I had when I first watched it so I might have missed it, which I would believe since I think Force Awakens is comparatively the most well-written sequel film.

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    • @Creaturemaster971 I would tell the main problem is indeed that she suddenly has the ability to use a lightsaber. Some say it's because she used a staff during her entire life but it's like saying you can properly use a dagger because you have used a butcher knife all your life. This can't be used as an explanation. 

      But i have to remember that Kylo was heavily harmed. Chewie's gun usually sends people flying upon being shot, there is no way Ren could have felt good in any way or be at his highest peak and he was heavily tormented by killing his father while Rey, even if distressed, could still keep her emotions at bay to some extent. Not to mention we see in ROS (this movie...rarely been angered like that against a film) that when he's healthy, Kylo has no problem fighting her and basically plays with her (doesn't make the fight really good though). 

      I guess there are arguments for the two sides of this. I honestly accept most of the arguments used to defend Rey's victory but i can't help but understand complains about it.   

      And for the Captain Marvel comparison...don't think there is any link between the two. And i honestly prefer Rey to Carol. 

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    • @Arkham

      Rey either should've been the new Han Solo instead of the new jedi (which the Force Awakens honestly did a great job of building towards before it was dropped), or gotten a double-bladed lightsaber to hearken back to the staff. Would've made more sense and been fukin rad

      I would prefer Rey to Carol for many character-related reasons, but good lord the connection to Palpatine made me so much more mad than the connection to the Infinity Stone.

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    • I agree with the double lightsaber. That would have been a good nod to the Prequels and something new to see a hero with a double lightsaber. Plus, it's ANAKIN's lightsaber, not Rey's, end of the discussion.

      The Palpatine connection had the good point of explaining why she was so powerful. The rest was just completely confusing. I'm 100% sure they said Rey's father was a clone of Palpatine because of how it would have been completely stupid for Palpatine to have a genuine son and a 30-years old grand daughter (meaning he would have had to sleep with someone after having his face and probably body completely fried). Not to mention that even then, you would think Palpatine would keep an eye on his clone, even if weak, especially if he considered him as a son. And then you realized that because of that, Rey technically IS Palpatine's daughter. 

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    • Creaturemaster971 wrote: I don't remember her saying that, however it also has been a while since I've seen the movie so I could very well be wrong. I just remember that being a problem I had when I first watched it so I might have missed it, which I would believe since I think Force Awakens is comparatively the most well-written sequel film.

      I agree with this notion. In my mind, TFA is a good starting point for a trilogy, then the other two over corrected in response to criticism and everything nose dived from there.

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    • Anyway, I vote for Anakin via skill

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    • I'm probably going to get trashed here but i think The Last Jedi have some good points and interesting ideas....but also multiple stupid and very bad ideas. Right, casino scene?

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    • I just hated that they brought Palps back. It was finding out about that that solidified the sequels as a corporate joke in my eyes. Also I can guarantee you they never said Rey's dad was a clone because I was waiting for that line and it never happened, leading to the obvious conclusion that Palpatine actually went and got laid. (Of course he had a jar of pickled Snokes so it's not that much of a stretch).

      That aside, it heavily, heavily establishes that Force power levels are massively buffed by your strong genetics, hence Rey's Palpatine-level shenanigans. Which begs the question, to quote a certain goblinoid stand-user: "how did some punk bitch that got killed by a worm just stab Palaptine's kids?"

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    • Actually, the novel i think (and it was then confirmed), Palpatine's "son" simply is a clone that appeared to be too weak and Palpatine, who is known to be a sadistic and cruel murderer...decides to raise him as a son. With the excuse that his "son" could bring him heirs by natural means. 

      Yeah, i also really didn't like this. Rey daughter of no one was an excellent idea, they should have keep it.

      Another problem i have with Palpatine's ritual simply is...how can we be sure he won't come back one day or another? Seriously, are supposed to believe all the Sith Acolytes died and Palpatine didn't have a backup plan?....actually, considering how absurdly dumb he is in this movie, i can really think that's the case. In fact, there is a theory that Palp actually managed to possess her, wich would explain why she barely reacts to Ben being dead and since there is no one left who could read her aura...of course, it's probably a joke...but considering how confusing and almost unexplained his return was; why wouldn't it be possible?

      And of course, Palpatine just became completely dumb. 

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    • Anakin fraa

      plss add

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    • She still a Mary Sue and it does need to explain how she was good with a lightsaber or in the force. Visual explanation doesn’t always work

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    • I might revisit this and change my answer, just posting here so that I remember the thread.

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    • base anakin was like, mega hype, and dark sider is supposedly >> him, but idk which one we are going by. honestly tho, kylo isnt more powerful than anakin here, and rey lost to him very convincingly, so yeah

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    • Kylo isn’t more powerful than anakin and the way Rey lost to him wasn’t convincing considering she beat him two times

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    • Both times Rey won were thanks to character induced stupidity.

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    • And due to Mary sueness

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    • A FANDOM user
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