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  • Post-ROT,Human form Acnologia [6-B key is used for Acno]

    Acnologia defends against Laxus

    The Dragon King

    Vs

    Kaido (can use Dragon form)

    Dragon Kaido

    The strongest creature

    Speeds equalised.

    Votes:

    Acnologia-

    Kaido-

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    • I believe Acno stomps here given Kaido can't hit Acno while Acno ignores Kaidos Durability with DSM

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    • Wait, why is Acnologia still have Non-Corporeal if the Dragon Slayers could hit him despite not having Non-Corporeal. 

      For the AP, well, it's a one-shot either way. Acnologia has no 6-B key so it is either Low 6-B or 6-A. If it Low 6-B (which is being twice as strong as his previous human state which is 539 Gt so he is around 1 Tt) then Kaido one-shot due to being 8 Tt. If it is the 6-A for Acnologia, then obviously Acnologia one-shot for being two tiers above Kaido which is certainly more than 7.5

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    • I know Acnologia's non corporeal was brought up before but I don't think it went anywhere, but given Natsu couldn't hit wraith who was a ghost, then idk.

      In either case I feel like this should be dragon Kaido vs Post ROT Dragon Acno given they both have some options and it isn't a one shot

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    • @Plum

      The Dragons have non physical interaction

      Yeah this should be Dragon Acno

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    • Acnologia was able to rip apart Dragons' Souls from their bodies. This could imply Dragon slayers can interact with the souls of Dragons.

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    • Which isn't NPI but soulhax if anything.

      Acno shouldn't have NC either way. Natsu's anti-feat prove that either he's tangible or the SBT did the trick.

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    • NP was supposed to be removed awhile ago, that shouldn't even be a factor here.

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    • But yeah Kaido has like an 8X AP advantage against this Acnologia, this should be Dragon

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    • SBT Acno scales to 2TT for absorbing a magic similar to his own power. No SBT Dragon Acno is baseline.

      I'm unsure if Acno should still have Dura Negation since I don't remember a statement saying he still has DSM after bevoming a dragon.

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    • All Dragons have Dragon Slaying Magic

      Humans got Dragon Slating Magic by learning the magic of Dragons, Dragon's Magic is literally Dragon Slaying Magic, it just got the name after humans learned it and started using it to kill Dragons

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    • I'll vote Kaido.

      his 8 Teratons isn't a stomp if Acnolgia scales to 2 teratons and although Kaido's greater durability won't be as effective due to Acnolgia's Dura negation it shouldn't be such a hinderance to kaido as his stamina likely will keep him covered.

      Acnolgia likely has the skill advantage due to his superior age, but since he's in his human state he doesn't keep the versatility advantage as Kaido would still have his flight and if the fight came to close range he'd also have a natural range advantage due to his large size.

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    • Acno only scales to 2 teratons in his Post ROT Dragon form, so he is half as strong in his human form. In any case this still should be changed to ROT Dragon Acno due to this fight being a stomp in either direction as it is now.

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    • oh wasn't aware

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    • Bump.

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    • Now they have extremely close AP.

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    • Actually Acno has much higher AP now

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    • Still going to vote Kaido for the same reasons above.

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    • Acno is like 2x stronger now.

      He should take this via AP and Dura Negation.

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    • Is this still human form acnolgia?

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    • Yes.

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    • Shouldn't Kaido still take it due to flight and just spamming Boro breathe at his opponents? He seemed to do that against Oden.

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    • Acno has good range too.

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    • @Cal isn't Acno in the 30 Teratons range?

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    • Schnee One wrote: Acno has the Dura to tank everything and one shot Kaido

      Don't exagerate.

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    • I edited my post upon seeing you say he was only 2x stronger.

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    • Isn't that a stomp then if he can tank and one shot? Checking it Acnolgia still holds a range advantage and idk he can eat Boro breath or not.

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    • No? Acno scales above Aldoron who did a 8.5TT feat. And SBT Acno is 2x that at the very least.

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    • Sorry I was basing that comment off what schnee said.

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    • Oh okay, should be fair then

      Acnologia via AP, Dura, Expirience and Dura Negation

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    • Kaido via staying in his human form thus the Dura negation doesn't work, Kaido still possesses his incredible durability and stamina and holds a close combat range advantage due to his large size.

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    • Staying in his human form means he can't fly or use Dragon Breath, plus his large size means less agility so Acno just wrecks him in CQC and calls it a day

      Also he's still biologically a dragon so Dura neg works

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    • Flying and Boro breath are uneeded. How is he still biologically a dragon? He clearly transforms to become a dragon otherwise he's just kaido, Lucci in human form isn't biologically a leopard. Large size doesn't automatically mean less agility..

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    • Large size absolutely does mean less agility, especially between two comparable people.

      Kaido literally has to reach down and claw at Acnologia with the massive size gap he has, while Acno can just pummel away with ease. Large size isn't giving Kaido a close quarter advantage against higher AP and skill.

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    • Erm.. human Kaido uses a massive mace as a wepaon he doesn't use claws in his human forms, his close quarter range comes from that mace.

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    • Wouldn’t shrinking down to Human form rob him of the range his dragon form enjoys? And Acno doesn’t lose anything, in fact he gains a range advantage as a result so if he so chooses he can just blast Kaido from a distance and wear him down with higher AP. Plus an advantage in AP would turn any cqc brawl in favour of the older stronger fighter

      Vote Lizard King for this and Schnee’s reasons

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    • That changes nothing of what I said because he still has to reach down and swing near his feat, which Acno can dodge just fine, while Acno can run circles around him due to his agility advantage and skill advantage

      He can also block and deflect the mace, given he is stronger

      Also Kaido goes Dragon Form eventually meaning Acno destroys him in that state

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    • Isn't it character for Acnolgia to just run away and range stomp? I only proposed it for Kaido as he performed it in the past, the op days Kaido starts in human form so there would be no reason to go into dragon form really.

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    • In this form? No. This form can't range Spam.

      Kaido goes into Dragon form in character, no reason he wouldn't try to do that if CQC is not working.

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    • If speed is equal then no it isn't easily dodged as it would be massive mace coming towwrds acno at the same speed acno can move at. What you're proposing isn't agility you're implying he has a speed advantage due to him being smaller which isn't the case, Kaido isn't a hulking slow guy he took down Luffy while kaido himself was on the ground without Luffy having time to react, acno isn't going to be able to run circles around him, deflecting the mace would be lifting strength which Kaido has the significant advantage in. Kaido could also go into hybrid form if needed which would grant an overall advantage in Kaido's favour but he wouldn't need to at at all, not would Kaido eventually go into dragon form; most the time he starts off in dragon form and later on goes to human, against big mom he just stayed in human however.

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    • A massive mace that is both less agile then you as well as coming from directly avoid that Acno has the skill and Durability and AP to deal with.

      No, I'm not suggesting speed. It's much harder to fight a smaller opponent then it is to fight someone as tall as you, especially when they are stronger and more expirienced

      Hell, if you want to nitpick about large size being an advantage or not, it doesn't beat the AP gap or the expirience gap.

      Kaido going into Dragon Form is an instant death sentence because Durability neg.

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    • Kaido would have a durability advantage, the marines and other Yonko weren't able to scar him nor kill him despite keeping him captured.

      Kaido would have for the majority of his life fought people smaller than him since this is one piece, he should be adapted in dealing with people that small.

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    • Because of his Dragon Scales, which is moot because Acno is specifically geared towards it.

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    • Kaido doesn't have dragon scales in his human form... And when he was captured by the marines he would have been cuffed in seastone just like ace was..

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    • Wait the Marines? They aren't 6B so that's kinda pointless to compare

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    • No match 

      Acnologia just one shot Kaido and destroy the One Piece verse with one finger 

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    • They aren't but they have Dura negation capable of harming 6-Bs.

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    • And there are marines who have been 6-B too.

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    • Large=Slow=BS

      Dragon Scales=Durability=BS

      Kaido>Whitebeard>MF Whitebeard, but to an unquantifiable degree. <=> Acno, I'm going to give Acno the benefit here, least in AP. Not by a huge margin though.

      Kaido loses range and flight if he sticks to human form, but Boro breath isn't all that powerful anyway.

      What's the longest Acno has fought for? Doesn't list any specifics on his endurance?

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    • When was Kaido>WB?

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    • vote in Acnology for AP advantage, Slayer magic and soul absorption

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    • no Yonkou even showed higher levels of WB

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    • Ace novel says Kaido > old Whitebeard > old sick Whitbeard.

      Kaido also took down Oden with a strike from his mace; Oden took attacks from Roger and clashed with prime whitebeard

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    • How does the soul Absorption work, also slayer magic won't work on human Kaido.

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    • Soul absorption is basically a non-factor here, since the mechanics aren’t explored.

      As for Acno’s stamina, difficult to say since most of his fights don’t last long. He generally shows up, one shots and leaves, or if the fight manages to last longer than that, he’s never actually gotten to the point where he’s exhausted. Best I can give u was wiping out two opposing armies made up of Dragons and dragon slayers all on his own about 400 years in the past. He’s also often shown just walking the continent so his cardio is prolly amazing

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    • @David thanks for the recap.

      I see Acno getting the early advantage via a slight AP advantage, but less Kaido uses Dragon form I don't see him doing too much damage. Acno eventually wears himsefl out not used to fighting for days on end and that's when Kaido takes it.

      Kaido wins high difficulty.

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    • I disagree, Acnologia starts off with a slight AP advantage yes, but also Kaido has no real knowledge about how Acnologia’s magic functions. Acnologia not only has a slight AP advantage but he also has a range advantage, he has shown in human form to employ ranged and aoe attacks almost as often as he has shown physical attacks, the difference in range is incentive enough for Kaido to switch to dragon form and without prior knowledge of what exactly DS magic does that’s a death sentence.

      And I specifically said, we have no idea of the upper limits of his stamina. He wiped out 2 armies and committed genocide all on his lonesome, we know from Irene that DS turned dragons can’t sleep, all this suggests high stamina but because most of his fights don’t last long enough we can’t effectively place it. TLDR; the specifics of his stamina are largely unknown and as such can’t be used as an argument for or against him.

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    • I mean Blackbeard don't sleep either.

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    • Eminiteable wrote: I mean Blackbeard don't sleep either.

      What does BB have to do with anything?

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    • He means that being sleep deprived might not be a decisive factor.

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    • I never said it was a decisive factor, I actually argued that because of the lack of specificity of the limits of Acno’s stamina it isn’t a reliable argument either way.

      And I still don’t see the relevance of BB, he’s been stated a few times to not biologically function like anyone else in OP so he isn’t a reliable litmus test for anything

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    • Why are we assuming Kaido will never go Dragon Form exactly?

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    • Never by a reliable source but I digress.

      Even if Acno doesn't sleep, doesn't mean he can't get tired.

      The best you can argue for him is scaling from people weaker than him, like the FT members fighting during the night against Tartaros.

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    • He didn't against big mom who was superior to him. He immediately left dragon form once he became sober and realised he was being attacked, and be only went in dragon form since he had his army and he planned on taking down the scabbards and Oden quickly (but that didn't happen)

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    • Big mom was superior to him? Since when?

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    • Hmm not superior my bad, on par with him in strength, where as others like Luffy the remaining scabbards and the other daiymao were below him so he just used dragon form.

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    • Voting Acno for DSM, better range, better experience, and a slight AP advantage.

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    • well, Acno has the advantage of AP and attacking from a long distance is enough to defeat Kaido

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      In this form? No. This form can't range Spam.
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    • Range spamming and using ur range are 2 different things. Like I mentioned b4 in his human form he ranges and physically beats down just as much as each other

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    • Couldn't Acnologia use temporal magic to reverse any Kaido blow against him?

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    • Has never used it so we can’t assume he can

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    • but he ate the magical power of the time that Zeref used

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    • Not entirely accurate, he ate the “Space between time” Zeref’s own time magic stemmed from Fairy Heart. And even then if he didn’t show himself manipulating time in such a fashion we can’t assume he can

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    • ShadowGun45 wrote:
      Couldn't Acnologia use temporal magic to reverse any Kaido blow against him?

      he can use telekensis to deflect kaido long range blow like he did with natsu and gajeel. also he  have self healing, if kaido somehow able to damage him.

      btw what is temporal magic? 

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    • Zeref’s time power came from the Temporal cleft, the Fairy Heart is just Infinite magic

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    • Zeref's Time Magic did indeed come from the Space Between Time, Fairy Heart is never stated to grant Time Magic, just Infinte Magic+Amp

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    • Wait what? I’ve been under the assumption that FH was the source of his time magic for years, this is news to me

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    • Nah, it's the Space Between Time that gives Time Magic, Zeref and Acnologia say this, Fairy Heart is never once stated to give the user Time Magic, Zeref can freely have control and access the Space Between Time's Time Magic

      Even the main Fairy Tail wiki gets this wrong

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    • So Acnolgia can use time stop or something? If so it's a stomp since Kaido is only winning via extreme dif due to physical prowess. Also telekinesis if acno has it won't work since that's lifting strength and Kaido completely outclasses him in that regard.

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    • He’s never stopped time b4 so we aren’t going to assume he can now

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    • I'm still voting for Kaido but I have to ask why isn't the Acno with the dragon form being used? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be Dragon Vs Dragon

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    • Post sbt Acno dragon form versus Kaido’s dragon form isn’t fair to Kaido. His dragon form is at least another 2x multiplier and still uses DS magic meaning he has durability negation against Kaido’s dragon form on top of an ap advantage

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    • No not that version since it's mindless and Kaido can just use Conqueror's haki to defeat it, I'm talking about the regular anco (no time eating stuff)

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    • Just, no. Mindless Acno is the form most notorious for hanging back and spam nuking whatever he considers a threat. With a range of a few thousand km Kaido won’t even see it to try Conquerors Haki (doubtful this would even work to be frank since it still has sufficient sense of self to avoid and preemptively destroy whatever poses any threat to it)

      But for the second thing, closer ap now but dragon form on dragon form is still a disadvantage for Kaido due to dragon slaying magic carving through his defences like they aren’t there, plus better range and hanging back and nuking is far too in character.

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    • Conqueror's haki would work on him.

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    • Acno is four times stronger as SBT Dragon, so he stomps Kaido

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    • And Conqueror's would still work... It's not based off strength it's based off state of mind and willpower.

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    • Either way that's not the Acno I was talking about I'm talking about the standard one.

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    • @David incorrect, ultimately it is a point against him if he has nothing close to it.

      So Kaido

      Dur

      Stamina

      Acno

      AP

      Range




      SBA Favour Ach I think. However if they close the distance at anytime than equalized speed renders his range advantage moot.

      The biggest factor is of course Dragon Kill Magic. It seems to be almost a stomp if Acno can just snap his fingers and kill Dragon Kaido.

      Assuming he goes dragon form (Which he might at a distance) Kaido loses (Stomp)

      If he doesn't then I'd say he outlasts Acno unless the Dragon Killer spams ranged attacks and never tries getting close. That has been pointed out to be Out of Charcter though.

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    • how would Kaidou have more Resistance than Acno ?

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    • Eminiteable wrote: So Acnolgia can use time stop or something? If so it's a stomp since Kaido is only winning via extreme dif due to physical prowess. Also telekinesis if acno has it won't work since that's lifting strength and Kaido completely outclasses him in that regard.

      no, the power of the Temporal Rift just proved to be able to Rewind time and travel through time

      Acno acknowledged that that was the power of time, but did not use it because the fight was extremely short

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    • @Dr.Fix

      Acno should take Durability as well as he no sold his arm being ripped off by Igneel.

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    • Not resistance durability; Kaido has only been scarred by Oden where as the other four emperor's and the navy have failed to do some despite having captured him, they tortured him and sentenced him to death over 40 times yet each attempt failed (and failed to leave a scar his body) even Kaido himself fails everytime he attempts to commit suicide, so yeah his durability is superior.

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    • Zackra1799 wrote: @Dr.Fix

      Acno should take Durability as well as he no sold his arm being ripped off by Igneel.

      That's pain tolerance not durability.

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    • everything that was shown about him trying to commit suicide is not something to put above Acno

      Kaido may have a good Resistance yes, but Acnologia still has the advantage of AP over his Resistance

      it looks like Kaido has scales in his human form too, so Slayer Magic should work

      About the Conqueror's Haki, Jozu had said that he needs to have a little mental strength to be able to stay in the presence of Shanks, and to use magic it is necessary to train mind and spirit, as stated in the first chapters

      Received 630742161050200
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    • He doesn't have scales.

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    • Yes it was.

      He doesn't.

      He doesn't.

      This isn't true nor relevant as that Acnolgia isn't being used.

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    • Lmao that's a tattoo he has it in dragon form as well.

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    • I remember that in Skypeia a Character that fought against Chopper fell from the island of the sky and remained intact like Kaido, so it is not a great achievement

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    • Him falling from skypiea isn't what's being used to justify Kaido's durability.

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    • Eminiteable wrote: Lmao that's a tattoo he has it in dragon form as well.

      Oh sorry, it really looks like a tattoo

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    • everything showed about Kaido’s durability doesn’t have twice as much Resistance

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    • The emperor's and marines aren't able to scar him despite having kept him captured, it is.

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    • but they are not 6-B like him

      at most Sengoku and Garp, but it didn't show if they tried anything against him

      others Yonkous are also not afraid of him

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    • Whitebeard Shanks and Big Mom are 6-B, so his Blackbeard but I doubt Kaido ever went after Blackbeard (could be possible), Sengoku Garp are 6-B and the original three admirals all have Durability negation on the 6-B level.

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    • anyway, it was only said that they tried to execute him and ended up running away, maybe with the help of his crew

      and why do admirals deny durability? I never understood that

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    • Kizaru has lasers and feats

      Akainu has a mention in the vivre card and feats

      Kuzan's freezing is stupid. It has no mention on dur negation page, nor is he supported by the source material or even complimentary material.

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    • it never said he ran away... Akainu literally melts through whitebeard's body with little to no resistance (including taking a portion off his head), Kizaru's lasers ignore durability for similar reasons + also scaling from kuma's and franky's. Aokiji due to what he did to Jozu + just standard ice powers.

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    • DemonGodMitchAubin wrote:
      Nah, it's the Space Between Time that gives Time Magic, Zeref and Acnologia say this, Fairy Heart is never once stated to give the user Time Magic, Zeref can freely have control and access the Space Between Time's Time Magic

      Even the main Fairy Tail wiki gets this wrong

      zeref was able to reverse time in fh form. unlike in his base form

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    • He only begins to use the Space Between Time’s Magic after also unlocking Fairy Heart

      Fairy Heart doesn’t give Time Magic

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    • Zeref was keeping the space between time closed until completing Neo Eclipse

      Acnologia and Zeref said that within this dimension it was full of the magical power of the time

      Zeref has been aware of the space between time for a long time, so his Time Stop is likely to come from him, but as it has not been proven, cannot say

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    • Yeah this isn't the place to debate if this guy has time powers, I think it's safer to just use the standard acno at this point

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    • what is vote count btw?

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    • Okay so Acnologia got buffed to 37 Teratons, which pretty much destroys Kaido's chances of winning.

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    • ^Should this be closed then?

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    • this Acnology actually has its 2x Multiplier, so it's 74 Teratons

      a Stomp

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    • this can probably be closed, since Kaido is no longer able to circumvent this difference in power

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    • Remove the speed being Equalized, or alternatively use Blackbeard since he can absorb attacks, BFR and negate durability. So it's more up in the air since both can one shot.

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    • Acnologia would still have Time Magic

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    • Rip this thread. I guess it can be closed

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    • ShadowGun45 wrote: Acnologia would still have Time Magic


      Acnologia isn't Zeref, he doesn't have time rewind or time stop.

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    • above a 4x Ap advantage and he has durability negation, Acno stomps and this can be closed.

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    • again, he ate the magic that Zeref used to use his time magic, so he possessed it

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    • Zackra1799 wrote: above a 4x Ap advantage and he has durability negation, Acno stomps and this can be closed.

      8x

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    • ShadowGun45 wrote: again, he ate the magic that Zeref used to use his time magic, so he possessed it


      Again, he doesn't utilize it like how Zeref does. Acnologia hasn't been shown to be able to even remotely use time magic, let alone on White Zeref's level.

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    • he just hasn't used it, but that doesn't mean he can't

      every Dragon Slayer that ate a spell shows that they can use the same spell that they ate

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    • Yeah I remember when Natsu became an intangible mass of fire after eating Atlas Flame. Yeah no, show me Acnologia ever showcasing access to time manipulation. You can't? Problem solved. You are quite literally wanking Acnologia to the highest degree.

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    • Acnologia stomps

      37.13 teratons vs. 8 teratons

      Acnologia ignores durability with DSM

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    • A FANDOM user
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