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  • After 2 years of hard and relentless training across the world The Straw Hats fulfilled their promise to met up and return at the Sabaody Archipelago. Luffy would complete his training with Silvers Rayleigh and have a stronger then ever resolve to become the Pirate King. After a rocky incident with the fake Straw Hat crew they finally reunited after 2 years and set sailed to Fishman Island.

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    One Piece - Opening 15 "We Go!" Sub

    One Piece - Opening 15 "We Go!" Sub. Español HD

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    • nice

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    • Latest chapter was really good. Wonder what sickness Gol Rodger had!?

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    • AstralKing7 wrote: Latest chapter was really good. Wonder what sickness Gol Rodger had!?

      Terminal case of a Plot device syndrome. Its very contagious, as WB caught it as well.

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    • Itachi too.

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    • Also Ace, oh wait...

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    • Additions for Beast pirates: Page One Kaido

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    • What's Lucci's and Jabra/Kaku's APs again?

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    • Lucci is 172.74 Kilotons but he can increase that greatly with his zoan form and stat amps, and Jabra is 94.14 Kilotons and Kaku is 95.01 Kilotons, and the same with Lucci they can stat amp via transformation and such.

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    • Wouldn’t Zoan Lucci be like 285+ based on being stronger than Zoro’s Asura?

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    • He's never fought Asura so who knows.

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    • Tetsucabrah wrote: Wouldn’t Zoan Lucci be like 285+ based on being stronger than Zoro’s Asura?

      Possibly

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    • possible upgrade for akoji's long range

      so as we all remmber in chapter 397 young akoji (22 years ago) used 2 long ice lines for kid robin that reach another island which should be at least hundreds of miles coz its not visible and we saw marine ships but still there is no lands behind them here is picture of young akoji also this is 22 years ago akoji whos a VA(Which is vice admiral) and ofcourse current akoji is much stronger thanks whats your thoughts
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    • I've read the early scans, Batman just like last chapter has struck again. At this point I think we should give him a profile.

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    • For those who've read the new chapter. What do yall think about the Bari Bari No Mi stopping Odens attack. Does it give us a better idea of their durability

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    • Yeah country level.

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    • The chapter proves that the Bari-Bari no Mi lives up to its name of creating good barrier since it won't be a good fruit if it the barrier produced could be broken easily with raw force

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      Yeah country level.

      Let's not shoot the gun outright right now

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    • It really isn't.

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    • We need a Oden profil, Im sure we gonna see soon more feats of him against Kaido.

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    • The Calaca already has a rough sketch of Oden's profile in the making so when this Oden's flashback is over and we get some more feats for Oden, we can finalized the profile

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    • Calaca is already devising one

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    • The official chapter is released Mon mangaplus and Viz. Also it may be possible to accurately calculate Kaido's dragon form size since he can now see a full shot of it above the capital.

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    • hey sub guys check this about akoji's possible range https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3968140 thanks

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      Lucci is 172.74 Kilotons but he can increase that greatly with his zoan form and stat amps, and Jabra is 94.14 Kilotons and Kaku is 95.01 Kilotons, and the same with Lucci they can stat amp via transformation and such.

      So wait are their zoan forms not enough to push them to baseline at the least?

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    • We don't know by how much the stat amps increase so no.

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    • We should do conservative estimates for unknown stat amps. Like x1.025 Although in this case they still wouldn’t be baseline but that’s besides the point.

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    • I love the One Piece community, really I do. However, things like the reaction to Oden's actions in this latest chapter without even getting the whole story first reminds me of how the insufferable community can be at times because of some of the fans. And this happens every arc! It also reconfirms for me that a lot of people don't actually read the manga, they only pay attention to the hype shit while speed reading over everything else.

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    • Mhm agreed, first chapter with shanks already established these things.

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    • So, this was accepted, will it be applied?

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    • Rei Rubro wrote:
      So, this was accepted, will it be applied?

      We're waiting on Calaca to make the speed thread 

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    • Can this be used to determine a better estimate for Kaido's dragon form's length?

      Screenshot 20200127-195143 Samsung Internet
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    • Doubt it

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    • PaChi2 wrote:

      AstralKing7 wrote: Latest chapter was really good. Wonder what sickness Gol Rodger had!?

      Terminal case of a Plot device syndrome. Its very contagious, as WB caught it as well.

      best thing ive read all day

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    • @ Eminiteable- I guess we could try to find the size of Kaido though we need to know the size of Orochi's castle to do so

      Anywho, here's a chapter analysis of 969 by Artur - https://thelibraryofohara.com/2020/01/28/chapter-secrets-chapter-969-in-depth-analysis/

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    • There was also a shot of him on the ground in the town of leftovers, but yeah.

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    • Kaido's size is inaccurate on that new scan anyway, as pointed out by Arthur. So that calc wouldn't work

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    • FullMetalLamps wrote: Kaido's size is inaccurate on that new scan anyway, as pointed out by Arthur. So that calc wouldn't work

      True he may be shorter but keep in mind just fromma rough estimate from what I can tell with my eyes that length of Kaido would still be superior to Type 1 large size, same goes with his kuri appearance.

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    • Just eyeballing when Luffy Elephant Gunned him we can see that he's above 15 meters in length just with his head. So Type 2 at the very least is fine.

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    • Anybody here sees Tekking?

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    • Same energy. On the left Kozuki Oden drawn by Eiichiro Oda in chapter 969 of One Piece. On the right Musashi Miyamoto from Vagabond drawn by Eiichiro Oda on the book "Takehiko Inoue Pia" from 2009.

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    • SupremeGilgamesh wrote: Anybody here sees Tekking?

      Always

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    • Hey, quick question, what's up with the justification for Kaido and the other emperors. None of them lead to Whitebeard or his calc, who is the one I assume they're supposed to be scaling to. All that appears is that everyone scales to Kaido, who lacks any feats on his profile that would place him at country.

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    • Is Asura Zoro High 7A ?

      Also shouldn’t Rashomon also be Higher since it’s an enhanced Shishi sonson?

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    • Duedate8898 wrote:
      Hey, quick question, what's up with the justification for Kaido and the other emperors. None of them lead to Whitebeard or his calc, who is the one I assume they're supposed to be scaling to. All that appears is that everyone scales to Kaido, who lacks any feats on his profile that would place him at country.

      they scale to whitebeard due to being emperor's thus being close-equals somewhat.

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    • LordWhis wrote: Is Asura Zoro High 7A ?

      Also shouldn’t Rashomon also be Higher since it’s an enhanced Shishi sonson?

      If he scales to the flower hill then sure. As for Rashomon, maybe I guess, although it probably wouldn't be mentioned in the AP section to avoid clutter but yes you could likely bring it up if it becomes relevant in a Vs battle.

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    • I know that, but their profiles don't mention this. They all just go to Kaido who isn't mentioned to scale to Whitebeard

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    • Duedate8898 wrote: I know that, but their profiles don't mention this. They all just go to Kaido who isn't mentioned to scale to Whitebeard

      Yeah agreed there should probably be some mention of Whitbeard on there.

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    • Duedate8898 wrote:
      Hey, quick question, what's up with the justification for Kaido and the other emperors. None of them lead to Whitebeard or his calc, who is the one I assume they're supposed to be scaling to. All that appears is that everyone scales to Kaido, who lacks any feats on his profile that would place him at country.

      I brought this up 4 months ago . Doesn't seem the staff are interested.

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    • Wow Oden has an insane feat. A really good feat

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    • Oden > Kaido

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    • Spoilers?

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    • Yep

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    • Erm, Oden is not > Kaido. They were more or less evenly matched.

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    • To be fair, that was Kaido in the past which I think is weaker than the present but Oden is still impressive tho

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    • Mr.Cinos15
      Mr.Cinos15 removed this reply because:
      Eh
      21:46, January 30, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • ^Yea, I have no idea where you get those numbers from but they weird me out too. Just use real world standards unless explicitly shown otherwise.

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    • What's Kaido age? I don't believe he was so much weaker than he is currently.

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    • Likely in his 50's.

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    • Unknown. Given he was an apprentice 38 years ago probably no more than 58 (Going by Marco).

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    • Honestly scaling for Kaido and Oden is about to get sort of weird if everyone doesn't agree that Present day Kaido >>> over Kaido from 20 years ago.

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    • RexofLM wrote: Honestly scaling for Kaido and Oden is about to get sort of weird if everyone doesn't agree that Present day Kaido >>> over Kaido from 20 years ago.

      Why? Oden scales just below the likes of Roger and Prime Beard why would scaling be weird?

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    • Is the chapter out yet or are people talking about the spoilers ?

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    • RexofLM wrote: Honestly scaling for Kaido and Oden is about to get sort of weird if everyone doesn't agree that Present day Kaido >>> over Kaido from 20 years ago.


      I definitely don’t agree

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    • Spoilers. The chapter will be out in some hours.

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    • I think the scaling is more in Oden's favor

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    • If Kaido is assumed to be in his mid to late fifties then him and Oden are of a similar age when they fight, so if Kaido is arbitrarily decided not to be in his prime then Oden isn't in his prime.

      Though Oden dies tbf so it doesn't really matter

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    • The Calaca wrote:
      Spoilers. The chapter will be out in some hours.

      I can not Handle this level of Hype i have

      Also how is it going with Oden profile?

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    • So i just read some spoilers for the chapter

      Anyone wants to know the goods?

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    • Use the spoiler template or go to a message Wall. I don't want to know.

      His profile will be done once the flashback ends or Oden dies. What happens first.

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    • Spoilers
      Very well then
      (cough)
      Oden made a X in Kaido chest
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    • This isn't reaaally spoiler, Komurasaki already spoiled this for us :v

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    • But that's not what i want you to focus on

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    • Damn Oden could have killed Kaido but he he really is too soft hehe 😭

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    • That Old Hag better die a painful death

      Did Oda made it obvious that Shinobu is the traitor or is it a red herring?

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    • Is it safe to say Enma and Ame no Habakiri have Country level durability.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      Is it safe to say Enma and Ame no Habakiri have Country level durability.

      We knew this months ago.

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    • Strings40404 wrote:

      Eminiteable wrote:
      Is it safe to say Enma and Ame no Habakiri have Country level durability.

      We knew this months ago.

      Currently got them listed as at least mountain level.

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    • King put a lot of work in that last chapter, made Raigo run away in terror and took down Ashura.

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    • The way I see it, Kaido got pretty casually stomped and then taken out by a cheap shot.

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    • LordWhis wrote: The way I see it, Kaido got pretty casually stomped and then taken out by a cheap shot.

      Help me understand that casually stomped conclusion? Oden wasnt exactly in good condition he was actually pretty hurt prior to getting one shot.

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    • From fighting Kaido’s army

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    • This chapter proves that PK tier fighters like Oden are way above Yonko tier fighters like Kaido.

      My prototype of Oden’s page-

      AP: Country level- Clashed evenly with Whitebeard. Casually one-shotted Kaido

      Speed: Relativistic+- Comparable to Roger and Prime Whitebeard. Blitzed Kaido

      Durability: Country level- Tanked Gol D. Roger’s Divine Departure with only very minor injuries.

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    • Screenshot 20200131-203328 Chrome

      Eh panel implies that he took a boros breath. Also Kaido stood right back up and 1 shotted him the same way he did luffy? Kaido quite literally aent back to base and got up how does that qualify for a one shot?

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    • One-shoted? Kaido literally counterattacked just a moment after the slash.

      If anything, this proves that Kaido at the time was <<< Primebeard for the latter being considerably superior to Oden, yet Oden can deal such damage to Kaido.

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    • Also weird to put him on pk tier and then imply a bunch of Yonko crew low tier scrubs are what injured him so much? I'm not convinced

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    • Also even if we agreed on pk tier to say way above doesnt sound right. He couldnt KO him with a named attack using presumably his full haki and strength and then he got 1 shotted. Even if we use the off guards argument i point to luffy vs kaido yonko level is way above commander level. Luffy threw a bloodlusted punch at an off guard Kaido and it dodnt do shit. Kaido swung once and luffy had a foot in the grave

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    • I’m pretty darn sure Oden could have killed him if he hadn’t have tried to give him a chance to leave the country

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    • Kaido getting up from Oden’s attack was a endurance feat not a durability feat. He was completely F-ed by Oden’s attack and probably had most of his internal organs diced up. Because of his endurance and willpower he was able to recover quickly and get up and continue fighting but it is pretty clear he was wrecked by the first attack.

      He was incapacitated and completely at Oden’s mercy if the old hag hadn’t saved the day he would have been easily killed.

      Reminds me a lot of WB vs Akainu.

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    • Idk man he was definitely hurt but it's not like he passed out for all we know he could of changed forms and blocked in time either way the gap between them isn't massive. Oden was struggling to stand prior to a one shot

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    • Endurance is irrelevant. Luffy's one of the most toughest motherf***ers in the manga yet Kaido dispatched him with nothing but a mace swing, and you don't see Luffy fighting back after that.

      Oden couldn't beat Kaido with that attack, let alone kill him.

      I have no idea how your mind could understand that scene as Oden one-shoting Kaido.

      Kaido being on his feet is the most simple yet clear evidence that Oden didn't one-shot him at all.

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    • Guys, what do you think about the possibilities that the barrier has Invulnerability? It blocked Oden’s rage swing and shown has to be unbreakable in Barto's case. Of course the invulnerability is only up to 6-B and any higher is NLF tho

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    • I'd just give it a 6-B Durability unless the AP is said to scale to it.

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    • If that's the case, then Barto is a massive stone wall tho 

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    • Pretty much, yeah. Low 7-B with 6-B barriers would be great.

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    • Has anyone ever broken those barriers? I can't recall.

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    • /\ nope

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    • @Whis no.

      My list remains as before:

      tier 0: Kaido's durability & Oden's AP (Via Enma)

      Tier 1: Xebex, Roger, WB, Big Mom, . . . . etc

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    • Eminiteable wrote: King put a lot of work in that last chapter, made Raigo run away in terror and took down Ashura.

      That wasn't King who stabbed Ashura, the hand holding the sword in that panel doesn't match his. Judging by the panels, I'd say King was watching the traitor both literally and figuratively stab Ashura in the back.

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    • Good observation

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    • If Barto does get 6B barriers will that be enough to make Elizabello 6B based on the Yonko statement ?

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    • The Calaca wrote: Kaido being on his feet is the most simple yet clear evidence that Oden didn't one-shot him at all.

      Akainu was still on his feet after WB one-shot him.

      Checkmate.

      What Oda was trying to portray was clear Oden > Kaido.

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    • Whitebeard didn't "one-shot" Akainu. Akainu literally came back to continue fighting. The only reason he was "one-shot" was because he fell through the fissure created by the EQ.

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    • I think Oden could have one shot Kaido if Oden did indeed go to slice his head off, Kaido after taking that attack was heavily bleeding from his wound and mouth as well as sweating profusely, seemed to fuck him up quite a bit; also I noticed when Oden cut Kaido the wound seemed to have haki lightning effects coming from it.

      On a side note I don't think Kaido intended for the old granny to trick Oden like that, although this is just in my opinion Kaido's face in that last panel look a bit shook and confused; the granny needs to die and so does the old man and I doubt they'll go out in a boring way like old age so Kaido will probably execute them imo.

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    • the idea that Oden should be 6-B is pretty ridiculous if we take the fact that this takes place 18 years before WB's 6-B feat, and that Kaido was growing in power at this time period--and this should especially be taken note since he is considered to be a "newer" Yonko in the same sense as Shanks.

      Do not forget that Kaido was a mere apprentice 16 or so years prior to this, and he wasn't shown at his current level of power until 20 years AFTER this event. That's an incredibly large amount of time to consider.

      He even straight up claims that Oden would outright defeat him and his forces had he attacked a few years prior.

      So if anything: Oden =/> 20 year prior Kaido which is ??? in comparison to his current level of power. It could be =, <, or <<< Current Kaido. We can also dismiss the notion that Oden is = to WB due to obvious reasons. If they are not blatant to anyone reading the story, that's a shame.

      no reason to even pursue the topic of 6-B Oden when his opponent Kaido is at an unknown level of power at the given time.

      P.S: Personally not understanding how Admirals can be 6-C if WB is still 6-B. Think about it. People <1/1000th WB's power can damage him and survive hits? zzz

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    • Hard to tell which tier Oden is.

      Imo, he would've killed Kaido had he not been caught off guard.
      7f840c55acb900f8045d7ba0b670927b

      I mean, 1.Oden was caught off guard, 2.Didn't use Haki to protect himself. 3.Was hit at the back of his head, 4.Fought against Kaido's army before, 5.Was seemingly hit by Kaido's blast breath when he used it before AND 6.Was still shortly conscious after Kaido hit him when he was caught off guard even though he was caught off guard and didn't use Haki to protect himself while Gear 4 Luffy was immediately one-shoted by a "stronger" Kaido into unconsciousness. And again, Kaido also fully Oden him at the back of his head which isn't a safe spot and Oden was already wounded before due to having to deal with the army and being attacked by Kaido's blast breath before. Oden and Kaido were clearly shown to be around the same strength, but Oden was stronger as one attack sliced the so called "invincible" Kaido up, giving him a scar and Oden was about to finish him off when he was on the ground. Kaido is said to have lost several times, pretty sure Oden is considered as one of those people who won.

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    • Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.

      Tbh Roger made quick process with him, then again, that was a way less experienced Oden and he wasn't one-shoted. Whitebeard also considered Oden as his brother and he clashed with him once, so Young Oden was already the real deal.

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    • Kaido's durability won't change due to this, it was still considered invincible before Oden cut and afterwards as well, besides one shotting Luffy he hasn't really been known to be above everyone else in AP.

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    • Unforgiven0815 wrote: Tbh Roger made quick process with him, then again, that was a way less experienced Oden and he wasn't one-shoted. Whitebeard also considered Oden as his brother and he clashed with him once, so Young Oden was already the real deal.

      Mhm, Oden was even ready to keep fighting with Roger had whitebeard not intervened. We know the Oden that fought Kaido was stronger than the one who fought Roger and Whitebeard.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:

      Unforgiven0815 wrote: Tbh Roger made quick process with him, then again, that was a way less experienced Oden and he wasn't one-shoted. Whitebeard also considered Oden as his brother and he clashed with him once, so Young Oden was already the real deal.

      Mhm, Oden was even ready to keep fighting with Roger had whitebeard not intervened. We know the Oden that fought Kaido was stronger than the one who fought Roger and Whitebeard.

      He was also dancing for 5 years on the streets, so he was out of shape. It wasn't even his prime, no?

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    • Unforgiven0815 wrote: He was also dancing for 5 years on the streets, so he was out of shape. It wasn't even his prime, no?

      He wouldn't get weaker from dancing, it's very good exercise. But either way if he did (which is doubtful as he's still shown physically fit and equal to Kaido) It wouldn't effect his 6-B rating

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    • Oden should get some resistance to Cold temperatures for Dancing in the snow and stuff while naked.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:

      Unforgiven0815 wrote: He was also dancing for 5 years on the streets, so he was out of shape. It wasn't even his prime, no?

      He wouldn't get weaker from dancing, it's very good exercise. But either way if he did (which is doubtful as he's still shown physically fit and equal to Kaido) It wouldn't effect his 6-B rating

      Maybe not specifically weaker, but still out of shape in terms of fighting skills, as he'd be a Swordsman who didn't keep training the whole time. Even Kaido implied that had Oden attacked 5 years earlier, he'd be done for as Oden was more dangerous back then.

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    • Unforgiven0815 wrote: Maybe not specifically weaker, but still out of shape in terms of fighting skills, as he'd be a Swordsman who didn't keep training the whole time. Even Kaido implied that had Oden attacked 5 years earlier, he'd be done for as Oden was more dangerous back then.

      I think a lot of you are misinterpreting that quote, he says that in the context of him not having enough manpower, not that Kaido himself was weaker back then or that Oden is weaker now.

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    • Pre-TS Luffy knocked out a Garp who wasn’t defending himself right ?

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    • CinCameron20 wrote: We can also dismiss the notion that Oden is = to WB due to obvious reasons. If they are not blatant to anyone reading the story, that's a shame.

      no reason to even pursue the topic of 6-B Oden when his opponent Kaido is at an unknown level of power at the given time.

      It’s not like Oden, WB and Roger considered each other brothers and drunk together and called each other Chan or anything...

      Seriously Oden 6B was proved when he tanked Roger’s attack. If you’re actually doubting his being 6B then you’re just being silly. The man has the best durability feat in the verse.

      Remember Prime Roger >> Old WB.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:

      Unforgiven0815 wrote: Maybe not specifically weaker, but still out of shape in terms of fighting skills, as he'd be a Swordsman who didn't keep training the whole time. Even Kaido implied that had Oden attacked 5 years earlier, he'd be done for as Oden was more dangerous back then.

      I think a lot of you are misinterpreting that quote, he says that in the context of him not having enough manpower, not that Kaido himself was weaker back then or that Oden is weaker now.

      Guess I understood it wrong.

      LordWhis wrote: Seriously Oden 6B was proved when he tanked Roger’s attack. If you’re actually doubting his being 6B then you’re just being silly. The man has the best durability feat in the verse.

      Right, now it's kinda absurd to deny him being 6-B, considering he immediately got back up after being attacked by the goddamn strongest pirate to ever live.

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    • You all are over complicating this. Nothing transpired in the last chapter that we haven't known since last year.

      Kaido cannot be damaged by anyone

      Oden is the exception

      Oden>everyone who isn't Kaido (Who bounced back from the attack and kept at it with Oden).

      Everything else is just conjecture:

      Kaido, WB, etc growing in power endlessly

      Kaido's comments about a war and troops for it.

      The old hag's interferance.

      All irrelevant.

      At MOST the flashbacks tell us Oden has gotten stronger over the last ten years, at MOST because he never admits to not seriously attacks Roger or Whitebeard.

      Let's just give him the 6-B key and be done with it.

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    • Kaido being indestructible is NLF, this chapter showed that to us. Roger and Whitebeard is still superior to Oden, who can defeat Kaido.

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      • FACEPALM

      Of course it is a NLF. WB & Roger>Oden in AP is simply wrong and contradicts what we just saw.

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    • people forgetting Enma got that special Haki ability.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      people forgetting Enma got that special Haki ability.

      THANK YOU!!!

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    • Implying Younger Kaido was stronger than Prime Roger and Newgate.

      Lol.

      Edit:

      @Eminiteable Enma doesn't grant hax. It just sucks your Haki to make any slash your 100%.

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    • And we didn't have any scene showing Oden using that "special ability"

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    • Laughing at the truth just reflects badly on you @Calaca.

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    • Oden tanks an attack from Prime Roger and clashed with Prime WB. Is pretty obvious that he is Country level (Or you can just be ridiculous and say that old and sick WB was more powerful than in his prime).

      The same Oden was going to kill Kaido. Is more than obvious that Roger and WB are superior to Kaido. Any denial to this is wank.

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    • What truth? The fact that you're wanking Kaido?

      Current Kaido being superior to Prime Roger and Whitebeard is debatable, but Kaido 20 years ago being that strong is even more doubtful.

      Enma doesn't grant any hax and the power it uses is the user's power at its fullest. It doesn't amplify it at all.

      Kaido got scarred, meaning that he's far from invincible.

      The time gap between the events of this battle and Oden meeting Roger and Newgate ain't too big,  and they were shown outclassing Oden.

      Kaido has lost before, several times actually. Yet you're justifying his scar with a non-existent hax instead of accepting that Kaido wasn't as strong as he currently is. Oden's just > him, but I wouldn't say it's a gigantic difference since he was able to somewhat injure him with his Boro Breath moments before Oden Togen Totsuka'd him.

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    • I'm confused as to what point people are trying to make.

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    • Simple:

      Prime Roger >=< Prime Whitebeard > Oden >= Kaido 20 years ago.

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    • Do you believe Oden wouldn't be able to scar Current Kaido?

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    • Good job opening with a Fallacy, stating I'm just wanking a character to try and diminish my credibility.

      WB & Roger Overall are probably =>Oden at this point. That's not going off anything too solid mind you as its been years since he saw them. As far as AP goes its clear as day WB cannot do what Oden did . Stop dismiising Enma's power by linking it to "hax". It a berserk blade releasing too much power at once. That is textbook Glass canon stat enhancement and it fits with what we saw from zoro, it fits with Oden<=Roger/WB, and it fits with him besting them VS Kaido's durability.

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    • Oden at the time of his death, most likely not. But if both were alive, I don't think the result would be too different.

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    • Thank you.

      We have no evidence of WB fighting Kaido at all. Funny that you mention him instead of someone like Shanks or Big Mom who were known to clash with him (either they fought seriously or fought at all).

      The blade doesn't increase power. What it does is suck your power until you're dry. If you have little Haki, you'll be dead soon as the blade will take too much. Stronger Haki users would perform better feats since what the blade does is using the user's power at its fullest even with the smallest slash.

      For all we know, the Rocks incident might had Garp fighting Kaido, and he wouldn't scar his skin that easily with his bare hands, so assuming Kaido's durability is far above any God Tier without clear evidence is one of the most hilarious claims you could do.

      Oden cutting Kaido is just Oden being > Kaido. In fact, Ame no Hibakiri also scarred him, yet Enma is the only one known to have that serious drawback.

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    • Whitebeard, Shanks and Big Mom all have reasons to kill him, and it's not like Kaido would try to stop them from doing so. Pretty simple to put two and two together and come to the conclusion that they just couldn't.

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    • That is straight up denial with the second line of text, less you think WB was not a Yonko. Enma increases your power output, unless you are going to deny that as well. We haven't seen what abilities Ame no Hibakiri can do so good job bringing an unknown in.

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    • Popcorn gif

      Oh Boy

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    • @Eminiteable What reasons again? Whitebeard didn't give a fuck about him, Shanks encountered him and we don't know what happened there and Big Mom has even said that Kaido owes her one so she wouldn't kill him before making him pay such favor.

      @Fix Quoting Hitetsu (This is Jaiminis version as I couldn't find Viz's translation as it's not available in MangaPlus, so don't quote me if the official release says something different):

      "This sword will force its wielder to release excessive amounts of Ryuuou and will cause unnecessarily large strikes!! If you were just some normal swordsman you would have had all your energy sucked out and collapsed immediately... Well done."

      Huh? What has that to do with anything? Kaido has even lost and he has been said to be unkillable, not invulnerable. The fact that he has lost fights in the past show that he's far from being invincible. He's just too tough to die and that's it.

      And now you're assuming Ame no Hibakiri also has a similar ability with no evidence. Nice.

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    • Oden > Primebeard and Roger?.....Bruh pass me some of that stuff you are smoking XD.

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    • The Calaca wrote: @Eminiteable What reasons again? Whitebeard didn't give a fuck about him, Shanks encountered him and we don't know what happened there and Big Mom has even said that Kaido owes her one so she wouldn't kill him before making him pay such favor.

      One universal reason would be they're all enemy Yonkos, the other would be Oden the guy Whitbeard refers to as his brother was executed by Kaido, are we forgetting what Whitbeard did for Ace at marineford? As for Big Mom I recall garp (or someother marine) saying both her and Kaido have been at each others necks for a long time, and Oden was Shanks friend and former crewmate, the same guy with the "nobody hurts my friends" quote.

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    • WAIT WAIT WAIT...

      Second what i am hearing,someone here thinks Kaido scales to Prime Whitebeard?

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    • Cin might bleach his eyes seeing this discussion.......

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    • -BANLK-
      -BANLK- removed this reply because:
      .
      16:32, February 1, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Whitebeard might not be aware of Oden's death, just think about it. Otherwise he'd have never leave Kaido alone if that were the case. Remember Wano is an isolated country and when Ace were there he wasn't a Whitebeard Pirate since he was with his Spade Pirates.

      Same applies for Shanks.

      That doesn't necessarily mean they have been actively trying to kill each other by themselves. In fact, you can see that they can clash for a whole night and nothing happens at all. Instead they befriend each other after some disgusting adult scene

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    • @Calaca I can see where you're coming from but considering Oden promised to open the borders of wano and 20 years later yet they're still closed, I think both shanks and Whitbeard wouldn't completely blank over the fact that Wano has remained isolated and has stayed under Kaido's rule.

      We know Kaido has been captured several times and tortured, maybe Whitbeard and shanks did defeat Kaido but just weren't able to harm him so resorted to torture.

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    • They have nothing to do with Wano and they pretty well know that politics are a bitch to deal with, so even if Oden promised it they would know the country has a long path to travel before opening its borders.

      We still have no evidence of them actually capturing Kaido. Defeating him? Yeah, totally possible. But they have no reasons to do that to begin with as they might not know Oden's fate.

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    • "To repeat, this is a man who challenged the navy and four emperors and was caught 18 times--and endured over 1000 tortures" caught means captured.

      As for Whitebeard and Shanks I feel 20 years with no contact and Kaido still being at large there would at least raise eyebrows, we know Shanks and Whitebeard should at least have some idea considering Big Mom knew Kaido was operating in Wano.

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    • He challenged the other emperors =/= he was captured by the other three emperors.

      If the sentence were to be written "he challenged and was captured by the other emperors and the navy" then you would have a point.

      Again, there's no evidence that they fought Kaido or even set a foot on Wano.

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    • Yeah Cal I think you need to look at those two links Dr Fix sent they quite literally do disprove those points you're making. Mentioning the emperor's and him being caught in the same tense tells us he was caught by them.

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    • They don't. The sentence doesn't specify anything. He has been captured, but doesn't say by whom. Shirohige and Shanks have no reason to do so, so why would they capture him and torture him? Shirohige has no interest in One Piece nor about Kaido's business and Shanks just wants to have crazy parties and relax.

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    • They do "none of these people were able to kill him" "caught-- tortured" if you can't kill someone then you'd torture them, pretty simple stuff, maybe Shanks wouldn't torture him but then again Shanks' nature has been brought into question after the reverie, But both Whitbeard and Big Mom have absolutely no reason to not kill him, a promise is irrelevant if he's just challenged you to death and Whitebeard can't be so stupid to not at least question no contact or news from Oden and Kaido's growing power in wano, based off his actions at marineford I'd find it very weird if he didn't kill Kaido if he could.

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    • What's your point again?

      Being unkillable isn't the same as being invincible. You're acting like Oden killed Kaido and outright ignored the hype text which he was presented with.

      Been brought into question by the readers because of what? None of that changes the good nature Shanks has shown through the show just because the Gorosei owns him for an unknown reason and pretending that means Shanks is prone to torture is one of the most hilarious and crazy claims that one could think about.

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    • Argument is like we've been told The Yonko are unable to kill Kaido, yet Oden came the closest due to actually visibly scarring him, you claimed none of the Yonko would have reason to kill him, but they do.

      Ive never claimed Kaido is invincible.

      Idk why you're bringing up shanks I already said he probably wouldn't torture someone

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    • That doesn't mean they can't injure Kaido. Scarring is good, but not necessarily mean it'd kill Kaido. You can have a lot of injuries without gaining scars, after all, such as brain concusion or broken bones.

      You said Shanks nature is doubtful now, which has no basis outside of a "muh bad looks" panel used as argument.

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    • Bit confused one what you're getting at there, the unable to kill seems pretty self evident, obviously I agree that those methods should work (but based on his narration you'd assume these things would have done him in at this point).

      I meant it more so as Shanks probably wouldn't based off everything we know about him, but considering he was able to walk in the reverie like that could mean there's more to him that we don't know, ultimately I don't think Shanks would torture someone as like you said he prefers to party.

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    • https://youtu.be/aGdWx0mbqq4 I know this cover story is fanmade so it's not canon, but I would absolutely love for it to be, it's great!

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    • Mr.Cinos15 wrote:
      https://youtu.be/aGdWx0mbqq4 I know this cover story is fanmade so it's canon, but I would absolutely love for it to be, it's great!

      You mean "Not Canon"right?

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    • Dammit I did it again...

      Yes, I meant Non-Canon, I just type too fast when I get excited.

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    • Eminiteable wrote: Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.

      >Prime Roger -> Roger slapped Oden away with a single attack and Oden was hurt. We never see them fighting. This is wrong.

      >Primebeard -> Oden clashed with Whitebeard once, then later noted how Whitebeard had such power in which he had never seen. Whitebeard certainly put forth FAR more effort in attacking Roger than receiving Oden's attack. We see Oden's surprise during their initial clash.

      >Kaido -> Pretty certain Kaido was likely far inferior to his current level of power.

      20+ years ago: Oden is = if not > Kaido, but </<<< Roger and WB.

      2 Years ago (WB's death): Kaido is certainly >>> than his 18 year gap counterpart. WB is at an unknown level, but this is where he performs his 6-B feat, and the other 3 Yonko are considered around the same threat level. Oden can't be compared because he's dead and there's basically a 2 decade gap.

      Also, regarding scarring, you only need to break skin to do so, and we don't consider superficial injuries to be at a level in which it could kill an opponent (I mean, unless they are using poison). But in regards to Kaido vs Oden, I certainly believe Oden had the ability to kill Kaido at this point. They were both pretty evenly matched if we consider that they were battling eachother for an extended period and could hurt eachother, just that Oden got the edge in the fight.

      Also, for the millionth time, we don't know WHY or HOW Kaido can not be killed by the marines or other pirates, so again, we should wait and see what happens

      Oden likely used Goken to wound Kaido, but that's an assumption, and we know that there are other users among pirates and the marines, so it is strange that none of them would ever use it on him.

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    • CinCameron20 wrote:

      Overall point I'm making is consistently being described as "strong" and having three feats against known 6-B's makes it stupid to rate Oden on anything below 6-B. It should be noted Sakazuki was confident in fighting old sick whitebeard but feared interfering with Wano's samurai (which fear is mostly likely based off Oden)

      >Prime Roger: He took the attack, i over simplified but Oden took the attack, got hurt, but was still able to keep fighting.

      >Prime Beard: in their clash Whitebeard took Oden seriously and clashed with him equally, beforehand using statements such as "Hey, all of you stand back. something's  coming...!! something incredible...!!" as well as "this doesn't look good" all the while slightly sweating, while previously he hadn't; obviously Prime whitebeard is stronger than Oden but the difference isn't so huge as to rate Oden being weaker than a sick old whitebeard (funnily Shanks is rated 6-B just via virtue of being a yonko and clashing in a similar fashion against whitebeard.)

      As for Kaido, the scarring was more as it left kaido sweating and bleeding out of his mouth, what should be noted is in the next 20 years Kaido wasn't scarred again, it's unlikely this was due to Kaido growing x amount of times to the point where no one can harm him anymore, as emphasis was put on the fact Kaido only had one scar on his body.

      We shouldn't perform mental gymnastics to determine how strong characters were 20, 6 etc years ago unless we're given actual direct statements that they grew more powerful in said time.

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    • CinCameron20 wrote:

      Eminiteable wrote: Oden has fought Primebeard and Prime Roger that's enough, him cutting Kaido is the icing on top.

      >Prime Roger -> Roger slapped Oden away with a single attack and Oden was hurt. We never see them fighting. This is wrong.

      >Primebeard -> Oden clashed with Whitebeard once, then later noted how Whitebeard had such power in which he had never seen. Whitebeard certainly put forth FAR more effort in attacking Roger than receiving Oden's attack. We see Oden's surprise during their initial clash.

      >Kaido -> Pretty certain Kaido was likely far inferior to his current level of power.

      20+ years ago: Oden is = if not > Kaido, but </<<< Roger and WB.

      2 Years ago (WB's death): Kaido is certainly >>> than his 18 year gap counterpart. WB is at an unknown level, but this is where he performs his 6-B feat, and the other 3 Yonko are considered around the same threat level. Oden can't be compared because he's dead and there's basically a 2 decade gap.

      Also, regarding scarring, you only need to break skin to do so, and we don't consider superficial injuries to be at a level in which it could kill an opponent (I mean, unless they are using poison). But in regards to Kaido vs Oden, I certainly believe Oden had the ability to kill Kaido at this point. They were both pretty evenly matched if we consider that they were battling eachother for an extended period and could hurt eachother, just that Oden got the edge in the fight.

      Also, for the millionth time, we don't know WHY or HOW Kaido can not be killed by the marines or other pirates, so again, we should wait and see what happens

      Oden likely used Goken to wound Kaido, but that's an assumption, and we know that there are other users among pirates and the marines, so it is strange that none of them would ever use it on him.

      1) Hurt? Proof?

      2) I'm pretty sure we all agreed he was shocked that they weren't touching which we attributed to skill in armament haki, NOt Power. . .  yourself included @Cin. As far as seeing WB in action, he never cites he was massively stronger than him. Only that he was more powerful than he'd seen back home . . . . AND this was many years before Kaido for Oden to improve.

      3) Evidence?

      4) Evidence?

      5) Evidence?

      6) For the millionth time stop over-complicating Kaido. If you want to give some weird ability to explain he can't be killed then go for it. Your refusal to acknowledge their is none which leaves simply stats, something we agreed upon years ago, is making discussion needlessly long.

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    • Oden was bleeding a little, obviously he wasn't as badly effected by it as Kaido was tho.

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    • 1.Oden was bleeding a little bit but immediately got back up.

      2.Primebeard took Oden seriously.

      3 Primebeard was serious (Not as fully serious as when he clashed against Roger tho) when clashing with Oden.

      4.Kaido is clearly not invincible and can be killed, Oden was literally about to kill him in the past and Roger and Primebeard could either way kill Present Kaido if they were alive in the present.

      5.If old and sick Whitebeard is 6-B, then Oden should be clearly 6-B as he was clashing with him during Whitebeard's prime.

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    • @Fix - Enough.

      1) Oden was bleeding and sustained injuries. What more do you need, sweetie?

      2-5) No idea what you're referring to.

      6) I'm not even complicating Kaido's character. We see him fight a single time, therefore his abilities are completely unknown to the viewer. Now calm yourself. >_>

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    • The fact that people are trying to argue that Oden scales to current Kaido is absolute nonsense. 

      We have seen Oden facing someone Tier 6-B. He got roflstomped. 

      Oden cannot scale to 6-B because he got casually oneshot by a non-haki infused attack from a 6-B. 

      Cin is simply objectively right here

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    • Primebeard and Roger are the peak of power at the moment, but i doubt Prime Oden was far below them. Conscidering that the dying Husk of what used to be the man that rivaled Roger was yonko level, i dont have any issues with Oden scaling to 6-B. He is a legend after all.



      And you also have to make the case that Kaido got significantly more powerful than he did against oden, which we only know he got significantly more powerful from the god valley incident to the present time.

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    • Xulrev wrote:

      The fact that people are trying to argue that Oden scales to current Kaido is absolute nonsense.

      Not at all. Prime Oden's right after Roger and Primebeard. We don't know how much stronger Kaido is than he was in the past. But Oden's prime was when he was with Roger's crew and I dunno why it's so hard for some to take that he's that strong. His introduction and the description we were given about him when he was young already implied that Oden was not normal in any way, literally the Hercules of Wano.

      Xulrev wrote:

      We have seen Oden facing someone Tier 6-B. He got roflstomped.

      He literally took a attack from ROGER, bled a little bit and immediately got back up and that wasn't even Oden's prime. He also clashed with Prime Whitebeard and old and sick Whitebeard is 6-B, so how is Oden who clashed with him during Whitebeard's prime not 6-B which wasn't even Prime Oden?

      Xulrev wrote:

      Oden cannot scale to 6-B because he got casually oneshot by a non-haki infused attack from a 6-B.

      One-shoted by who?

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    • Xulrev wrote: The fact that people are trying to argue that Oden scales to current Kaido is absolute nonsense. 

      We have seen Oden facing someone Tier 6-B. He got roflstomped. 

      Oden cannot scale to 6-B because he got casually oneshot by a non-haki infused attack from a 6-B. 

      Cin is simply objectively right here

      Filled with lies here.

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    • At thiz point I dont even know what "Prime" means anymore.

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    • PaChi2 wrote:
      At thiz point I dont even know what "Prime" means anymore.

      peak of power. 

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    • Dr fix seems to be arguing that Oden has higher AP but Lower durability than Oden and Roger and is thus still weaker or at best equal overall.

      I guess not every character has the same AP to durability ratio but I’m not really sure how much evidence there is for Oden being some sort of glass cannon.

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    • Also fun fact: At the time of his fight with Oden, Kaido would likely be only a few years younger than Aokiji was pre-timeskip.

      Also it was stated Oden was several times stronger when he came back than when he left.

      IMO Roger, WB, Garp and Oden (and maybe Rocks) are all around the same level and could all beat each other on a given day. And I personally think the 4 of them are a tier above the current yonkos and could probably mid to maybe high diff any of them.

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    • Man, it's impressive that people are just willing to outright state that factual occurrences surrounding Oden's character are 'outright lies' to support their wank of him. 

      Can't wait to destroy the future CRTs on this alongside Cin. Oden on the same level of Roger, lmfao

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    • Xulrev wrote: Can't wait to destroy the future CRTs on this alongside Cin.

      When someone posts something like this you just know they’re unbiased.

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    • LordWhis wrote:

      When someone posts something like this you just know they’re unbiased.

      Or, OR, perhaps they're actually looking at the factual circumstances and absurdly sure of their position being the one that will be put on the wiki since no Staff would ever look at the happenings and think 'Yeah Oden is Tier 6-B'

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    • I thought sanji was gonna do something in the wano arc but then i saw the fight with katakuri and then I saw luffy get one shotted by kaido. then dolflamingo kaido and big mom join forces and I then realized that luffy is gonna get some dubs while boa hancock gets her secret found out and she dies.

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    • One Piece has to be the only verse I’ve seen that has so many problems with a character’s “Prime” power.

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    • Yeah like people yell about prime whitebeard like he is the second coming of christ.

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    • @Astral & @Banana Thanks for keepig cooler heads :-)

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    • Its ight is just that one piece is difficult to talk about in the way this wiki scales it and that causes so many heated debate's

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    • Dr.Fix wrote: @Astral & @Banana Thanks for keepig cooler heads :-)

      No..I lost my cool a year or two ago when everyone got downgraded from tier 6 and up. Onyl way I’m participating in AP upgrades for OP is because I thought discussing top tier like Yonko would be so much easier

      But apparently it’s not even when we have feats right in front of our face to scale with 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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    • This wiki kinda gives on going old manga a Really hard time one piece is a prime example.

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    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote: Yeah like people yell about prime whitebeard like he is the second coming of christ.

      I love this comment.

      Imagine if Whitebeard was Edwar D. Newgate lol

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    • Yeah kinda forgot about that for a second XD 

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    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote:
      Yeah like people yell about prime whitebeard like he is the second coming of christ.

      he would technically be the first coming of christ, since i doubt there was someone as legendary (besides Roger) as him before, unless they start pulling a naruto.

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    • Xebec existed

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    • hw==Ryuga21 wrote:
      Xebec existed

      meh. He wasnt as impactful do to the fact that his existence was suppressed after his death.

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    • This was because the world government hid his existence because he was a D. (They did the same with Roger)

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    • That's the exact opposite. His name was so feared that the WG had to erase everything about his existance.

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    • Ryuga21 wrote:
      This was because the world government hid his existence because he was a D. (They did the same with Roger)

      pretty much. They were able to hide his existence likely due to the fact he perished before he became PK. 

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    • Title Pirate King did not exist back then and we don't know if Xebec ever went after Laugh-Tale.

      I do find it strange he was "erased" and wonder if there's a connection to the Void Century, Im, and this talk of another "light to extinguish".

      Im probably qualifies as well lol.

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    • void century is weird to talk about since the concept is kinda covered since oda wants to troll us.

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    • its also bad since in that part of history its likely people like whitebeard and big mom dont know much about since roger is the only known person to know why its forbidden.

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    • well actually considering whitebeard was a admiral he might have known somthing before he got samwiched by 5000 soldiers.

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    • I feel we could get a parallel manga "One Piece: sidestory" where we see the development of the side characters, because I want to have some Dragon screentime so badly...

      I mean "could" as in "there are so many side characters an entire manga is doable".

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    • THAT WOULD BE kinda neat i mean we could get a series on what blackbeard or maybe even hancock  but i feel like it would only work for the people that arent in the main conversation so a series on blackbeard or shanks would be pretty cool to see.

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    • PaChi2 wrote:
      I feel we could get a parallel manga "One Piece: sidestory" where we see the development of the side characters, because I want to have some Dragon screentime so badly...

      I mean "could" as in "there are so many side characters an entire manga is doable".

      Lol Oda's Grand kids would have to take over if that happens.

      Manga focusing on Monkey D. Dragon would be sweet though. 

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    • Personally a spin off focusing on Gold D. Roger would be neat too.

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    • I think Law could carry his own series to tbh. Just look at how good his novel was

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    • I don’t think odd is really on that concept because of oden vs Kaido I the Wano arc is about to end so hmm.

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    • Stefano4444 wrote:
      Personally a spin off focusing on Gold D. Roger would be neat too.

      That would be awesome!

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    • A ppint that just occured to me sengoku explicitly states Kaido and big mom are much stronger present day then they were back when they were rocks pirates.

      Currebt kaido is likelt over oden

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    • I'm pretty sure Current Kaido should be considerably above Oden.

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    • Sengoku said that they are much stronger than they were 38 years ago. Oden fought against Kaido like what, about 25 years ago? (Considering that the flashback took place 30 years ago, Whitebeard being 44 in the flashback and 72 when he died, plus Oden dancing for 5 years on the streets, plus counting in the 2 years time skip in the present).

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    • It technically should have happened 20 years ago because that's what Oda said when he revealed Kin'emon and Momo's time travel plot, so Oden spent 5 years dancing (whoever thinks this is enough to not rust his condition at least a bit please get out of the room).

      On other news, this

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    • RexofLM wrote: A ppint that just occured to me sengoku explicitly states Kaido and big mom are much stronger present day then they were back when they were rocks pirates.

      Currebt kaido is likelt over oden

      Kaido that fought Oden wasn’t apart of rocks anymore so that needs to be taken into consideration

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    • Oden fought Kaido 20 years ago, not 25, and if you want to make the point a rusty Oden was the only man to scar Kaido that's fine also, what should be noted is in this recent chapter is "Kozuki Oden's strength surpassed the enemy's imagination" and Kaido himself was comparing Oden's likeness to both Roger and Whitebeard in the sense all three are mighty, as for the Sengoku quote although they likely got stronger in 38 years it should be noted that both big mom and Kaido value Manpower above all else it seems; Big Mom believed she could defeat the other four emperors if she had more family members (not if her own strength grew), and we learn in this chapter Kaido only had 1000 men at the time compared to now where he has 40,000, and Kaidos overall goal was to gain a massive army of smile users not to power level himself up.

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    • Oden wasn’t using armament Haki to defend himself when Kaido hit him so he only really had 10B (or whatever is normal human-level in OPverse) durability when Kaido hit him. Much like Roger when he got beheaded.

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    • RexofLM wrote:
      A ppint that just occured to me sengoku explicitly states Kaido and big mom are much stronger present day then they were back when they were rocks pirates.

      Currebt kaido is likelt over oden

      not likely, he Should be. Tho not consciderably. 

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    • Is he stronger than when he fought Oden tho ? That was already 18 years after Rocks

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    • Ah man this again?

      Look it comes down to three choices

      1) Scale Oden to younger versions of Rocks Pirates

      Or

      2) Scale Oden to a MUCH younger version of shutenmaru

      Or

      3) Leave him unkown, which given he is probably over in terms of development means he might as well not get a profile page. . .  :S

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    • Younger versions of the rocks pirates are unknown, Younger Shutenmaru was when Oden was around 18 which would be inaccurate, him scaling to Rayleigh is also inaccurate since they've got nothing to base a scale off nor can you really scale Prime Rayleigh to old Rayleigh since he's completely unknown.

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    • well  right now im just thinking about the whole kaido vs oden thing i wonder what oda plans to do with zorro

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    • If Zoro even harms Kaido no doubt we'll be hearing a different tune about how Enma suddenly possesses Dura Negations Hax.

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    • true but the thing is zorro and sanji are likely not even gonna be a threat to anyone since we have blackbeard bigmom shanks and kaido so yeah its pretty sad but i dont think anyone else is gonna do anything.

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    • also by the way its pretty much over for hancock.

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    • i dont think shes gonna make it out of this arc

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    • Maybe, seems her sabo and Vivi may die.

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    • yeah but its hard for me to think how luffy is suppost to beat kaido in a week i mean i know it wasnt a fair fight as luffy wasnt in the right mind set but i  dont see luffy being able to beat kaido in that short amount of time.

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    • but i do wonder if tankman could have blocked kaido's hit.

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    • You should edit your comments more so you don’t have to make so many comments

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    • sorry i forget to do that some times

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    • Dr.Fix wrote:
      Ah man this again?

      Look it comes down to three choices

      1) Scale Oden to younger versions of Rocks Pirates

      Or

      2) Scale Oden to a MUCH younger version of shutenmaru

      Or

      3) Leave him unkown, which given he is probably over in terms of development means he might as well not get a profile page. . .  :S

      I guess the first option then.

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    • Thebannanaworkshop wrote: true but the thing is zorro and sanji are likely not even gonna be a threat to anyone since we have blackbeard bigmom shanks and kaido so yeah its pretty sad but i dont think anyone else is gonna do anything.

      It’s not like it’s been confirmed that EOS Zoro > Shanks or anything...

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    • It's not like we're at EoS.

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    • Its not like OP can reach EoS.

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    • It's not like this doesn't matter since the wano arc is going on

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    • We have an accepted Pica's island level+ feat.

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    • Isn't that higher than Zunesha?

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    • Zunesha's just the elephant being stand.

      This is for Pica's walking.

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    • Zunesha is superior to Jack anyway

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    • It hasn't been confirmed that Eos Zoro will be > shanks

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    • VioIeLFC wrote: It hasn't been confirmed that Eos Zoro will be > shanks

      Except it has.

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    • Well it's not been confirmed, but Mihawk's Vivre card does state Mihawk's waiting for a swordmaster to emerge to surpass even shanks, but that's implications not direct confirmation but it's definitely likely.

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    • Funnily enough, Oda has been drawing the adult version of the Strawhats and he said that Zoro would look like that if nothing happens to him.

      Inb4 Zoro dies before becoming the greatest swordsman :P.

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    • well ether way it doesnt matter since we on this part

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    • Hmm I always took that as; "ok this is what will happen just as the story goes" for the regular and for the ugly "ok this is what happens if something interrupted his story and he abandoned his goals".

      Personally don't want any of the strawhats to fail in reaching their goal or for them to die prematurely (especially if Oda regrets the decision later and just introduces a new Zoro)

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    • No, that's for the different endings.

      Oda said that Zoro would have the good ending if nothing happens to him, which isn't what he has said about the other characters outside of the good/bad ending. It's really suspicious.

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    • maybe he will die, just based off the thriller bark thing. NGL although I can see the benfits in a story and the impact would be good but at the same time it would be dissapointing for Zoro not to reach his goal by having that rematch with Mihawk (The Shiryu killing mihawk theory is lame for the same sort of reasons as it's sort of Kuina repeated.)

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    • @calaca:

      You Sanji fanboys truly hate Zoro don’t you ?

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    • Look dude it's just how oda likes to troll us I don't think he will kill zoro but it's a possibility 

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    • I'm not a Sanji fanboy. As a man of culture, I stan Luffy

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    • If Oda does pull something like that in the end it would most likely mean that it would be a commonly held opinion that all of the HST series ended badly. And would probably result in the HST as a whole being held in less regard for future generations of anime/manga fans.

      On a side note I do think it’s possible Luffy dies in the end after achieving all his dreams and becoming PK like Roger. As a result of his gears and Ivankov’s hormone injections.

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    • I'd be more surprised if Luffy lived a long life after EoS. Most of us are already expecting him to die young.

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    • Oh yeah, a character's death means bad ending if it's the favorite of 40% of the fandom.

      What the actual fuck, seriously. How Zoro's death translates to bad ending?

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    • The Calaca wrote:
      Oh yeah, a character's death means bad ending if it's the favorite of 40% of the fandom.

      What the actual fuck, seriously. How Zoro's death translates to bad ending?

      because Zoro stan logic

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    • True enough

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    • If Zoro did die prematurely before his goal it may end up being bad writing (not that it would effect the series as a whole as this suggests he dies sometime before the ending) only because based on Ace I wouldn't put it past Oda to just create a carbon copy.

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    • It would be pretty messed up if Zoro is going toe-to-toe with Mihawk, proving to be the better fighter if even marginally, but due to Zoro's focus being entirely on their intense fight, someone just waltzes in unnoticed by Zoro and kills him (Seems like some BS that Shiryu would pull).

      The SHs would probably be bearing witness to the 1v1, and be attacked by the BB pirates. That's the only way I could see Zoro coming close to attaining his dream, but being killed off before actually succeeding. Would tear people apart.

      That's just one of many fan-theories regarding Zoro. All we know is that he really is reckless, and this could lead to his death.

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    • The Calaca wrote: Oh yeah, a character's death means bad ending if it's the favorite of 40% of the fandom.

      What the actual fuck, seriously. How Zoro's death translates to bad ending?

      Maybe it has something to do with shitting on a storyline that has been built up longer than most of the people on this wiki have been alive ?

      Also how rare is it to see the lancer/ blue oni die in anime ?

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    • Oda loves Zoro. If any SH is going to be killed off before the show ends then it's definitely not going to be our favorite marimo.

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    • If Zoro would have to die, it must be done after he archive his dream, so that he can get a satisfy conclusion.

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    • Well oda is oda alot of people didn't want ace to die look what happened to him

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    • Yeah but Oda invented Ace to die, as far as Zoro goes it just doesn't seem likely he will die.

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    • I can see both of them dying ngl, but I'd prefer it if they lived longer than the Roger pirates did.

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    • Happy birthday to my favorite One Piece girl!

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    • The storyline isn't about Zoro becoming immortal, lol. Dying doesn't negate the possibility of beating Mihawk, in the first place.

      The stanning is okay, but stretching it to the point where the ending would be bad if the stanned character dies without knowing the context of said death is outright hilarious. Like, Zoro could very well have one of the most epic deaths in anime, being well written and paced, making sense for the plot and being relevant. At the same time, the series finale could close every Open plot and reveal everything hidden to the reader, making an ending that makes sense and it's what the show has been promising in terms of quality.

      ... but Zoro died so it's a terrible ending and it sucks.

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    • I would love it if Shiryu backstabbed Mihawk during Zoro vs Mihawk, leading to Zoro beating Mihawk but only because of what Shiryu did.

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    • i mean, some fans hated on Naruto and Bleach for mere "wrong" ships, and even burned bleach volumes cause "muh Rukia didn't get Ichigo's D"

      seeing the amount of  passionate fanboys/girls Zoro has (Zoro stans,as you call them) it is easy to imagine them going all crazy,if their favorite character dies in the end (especially if he somehow fails to achieve his goal)

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    • Those endings sucked for different reasons. Average readers complained for Mid reasons while ignoring that the endings were completely pointless and void of content.

      Neji fans complained his death because it was rushed and stupid, and everyone agrees that if dying, he should have done so against Kidomaru, for example.

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    • I have faith that if Oda planned to kill any of his main cast he would do it well, but tbh the Mihawk fight deserves a satisfying conclusion rather than a premature finish or never happening.

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    • I agree with this. It's funny how the comment was completely misunderstood as I never said Zoro would die before achieving his dream but dying before growing old.

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    • The Calaca wrote:
      Those endings sucked for different reasons. Average readers complained for Mid reasons while ignoring that the endings were completely pointless and void of content.

      Neji fans complained his death because it was rushed and stupid, and everyone agrees that if dying, he should have done so against Kidomaru, for example.

      all i mean, is that "stans" (fanboys) will find thing or two to complain over their favorite character's ending, even if said character survives in the end of the story 

      i personally think,that Thriller Bark was nigh perfect place to end Zoro, but hey, Oda is the Author,and maybe he has far more emotional and cool idea for Zoro's death, who knows

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    • Reminder that some people tried to get Naruto banned from the US just cause Naruto x Sakura didn’t happen. Some people are that petty

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    • Stans will complain about anything, to be fair.

      I'd be mad if Luffy doesn't beat Akainu but now we have Sabo who also has sentimental reasons to be the one, so it's hard to decide which one I prefer over the other.

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    • The Calaca wrote:
      Stans will complain about anything, to be fair.

      I'd be mad if Luffy doesn't beat Akainu but now we have Sabo who also has sentimental reasons to be the one, so it's hard to decide which one I prefer over the other.

      nothing stops Oda from making a good 2 v 1 fight against Akainu

      and seeing how Luffy doesn't kill his opponents, i think Sabo could be the one who makes the finishing blow

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    • I still think Luffy vs Blackbeard makes the most sense narratively but it’s gonna happen ether way

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    • Yes, although Oda has said he prefers 1v1 in most cases. While I'd like a 2v1, Luffy has his own likely rival in such event and that's something he wouldn't change by swapping characters at the last moment.

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    • guys i feel like honcock might not surivive wano because of how so many are hunting her plus if theyf igure out shes a slave its automaticly over for her shes done.

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    • I really don't like Hancock so I wouldn't be too hurt by that.

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    • Well she did drag down luffy just a bit 

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    • Hancock probably will live, she is likely getting caught but at most they're going to be made a slave again, my worry is for Sabo since to this day I've wondered why Oda would just introduce (no offense) another ace to the story.

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    • The Calaca wrote: I agree with this. It's funny how the comment was completely misunderstood as I never said Zoro would die before achieving his dream but dying before growing old.

      This is not true at all. I would be fine with this. You clearly insinuated he’d die before achieving his dream.

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    • Also Sabo literally cannot beat Akainu.

      Luffy vs Akainu and Zoro vs BB would make a lot of sense.

      Zoro could also take on Imu or Shilliew maybe. Gandhi Gorosei is a long shot possibility.

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    • So you took the joke seriously.

      Welp, you fell for a joke comment as it was a serious take.

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    • >Zoro vs BB

      >Make sense

      Choose one.

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    • Yeah there is literally no context for why Zoro would fight BB.

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    • On side note it wouldn't really be that bad if Sabo died since maybe Luffy could then eat the Mera Mera no mi.

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    • nah sabo wasnt meant to die but i really think hancock is dead

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    • Zoro vs BB mainly because Zoro doesn’t have a devil fruit. I just can’t see anyone with a devil fruit beating BB. And Zoro will probably be the strongest non-DF wielder around by the final arc (except maybe Coby but I just don’t see Coby vs BB at all... though the idea is intriguing... I’ll make a battle thread about it in 5-10 years)

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    • Ryuga21 wrote:
      >Zoro vs BB

      >Make sense

      Choose one.

      nether since it aint happening.

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    • Zoro vs BB haha, would be like Luffy vs Mihawk

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    • LordWhis wrote:
      Zoro vs BB mainly because Zoro doesn’t have a devil fruit.

      That sound like a stupid reason, you could also consider Sanji and Jimbe as candidates too since they don't have a Devil Fruit power.

      Hell, Jimbe would make much more sense than Zoro, since he own a personal debt to Whitebeard and was friend to Ace.

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    • Eminiteable wrote:
      On side note it wouldn't really be that bad if Sabo died since maybe Luffy could then eat the Mera Mera no mi.

      Unless Luffy is somehow like Blackbeard, he isn't going to get the Mera Mera no Mi.

      Especially when is very likely that Teach had to use his Yami Yami no Mi to take WB's power.

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    • If anything Sabo beating Sakazuki makes sense in that he inherited Aces will and it’s poetic justice for the Meta Mega no Mi to win this time.

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    • How sabo will beat Sakazuki? His magma is totally counter of him main ability. 

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    • By doing something Ace can't: Using anything else besides the DF powers.

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    • Stefano4444 wrote:

      LordWhis wrote:
      Zoro vs BB mainly because Zoro doesn’t have a devil fruit.

      That sound like a stupid reason, you could also consider Sanji and Jimbe as candidates too since they don't have a Devil Fruit power.

      Hell, Jimbe would make much more sense than Zoro, since he own a personal debt to Whitebeard and was friend to Ace.

      I don’t think Sanji and out-of-water Jinbe will ever be strong enough to take out BB. The only characters at EOS who could pull it off would be Zoro and Coby and I think the former is more likely than the latter. Maybe Imu, but why would he ever fight BB ?

      Sabo will never be able to beat Akainu. He is a logia, he can never use anything except his DF powers, he literally is fire.

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    • Though the more I think about it the more fun Coby vs BB sounds...

      Luffy vs Akainu, Coby vs BB, Zoro vs Imu, Sanji vs either Kizaru or Blonde Gorosei, Hiyori vs Gandhi Gorosei and the other 3/4 Gorosei being taken by other strong fighters.

      Monster Chopper/Franky Shogun vs Sanjuan Wolf possibly ?

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    • Stefano4444 wrote: Unless Luffy is somehow like Blackbeard, he isn't going to get the Mera Mera no Mi.

      Especially when is very likely that Teach had to use his Yami Yami no Mi to take WB's power.

      We don't really know, could be Yami Yami no mi could be Blackbeard's body, I'd like Luffy to inherit the power of both his brothers and that's really my only reasoning.

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    • Ryuga21 wrote:
      How sabo will beat Sakazuki? His magma is totally counter of him main ability. 

      He may ended up becoming stronger before fighting Akainu, and not just in terms of Strength and Speed but also Haki and Devil Fruit's Power.

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    • LordWhis wrote:

      I don’t think Sanji and out-of-water Jinbe will ever be strong enough to take out BB.

      I'm not talking about power levels, i was talk about what make more thematically/narratively sense.

      Because Zoro and BB had little to no interaction between each other, it would just feel random having them fighting each other.

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    • Personally I really dislike the idea of a repeated history of Roger's story, Luffy works so well when it's him overcoming an enemy on his own, him having to team up to defeat a main villain is just sort of lame imo.

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    • Zoro isn't going to defeat one of the big bads of the series.

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    • Shouldn't fire technically hotter than magma considering that it is plasma. Perhaps with Awakening, Sabo will realize the true potential of the Mera Mera no Mi and burn Akainu with his now superior flames?

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    • Luffy has beef and history with both BB and Akainu. BB for targeting him in the past before taking his brother in to be executed. Akainu for obvious reasons and Akainu is certainly wanting to kill Luffy himself to some degree.

      Luffy has to take out BB and Akainu himself, or there wont be closure for his story (Or Sabo has to fight Akainu--but I seriously doubt he stands a chance against either if he was incapable of besting Fujitora)

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    • Stalemating Issho when he's new to his DF powers is actually pretty decent feat before taking on the boss of the admirals, . . 

      That said I don't see Sabo VS Akainu happening . . .  There's no reason Oda has to choose between Akainu & Blackbeard. I'm 50/50 as whetehr I want Garp or Akainu to go out first but I see a triple threat happening for One Piece on Laugh-Tale between Strawhat, BB, and Marines (Save your friends, take the world, maintain balance).

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    • @Fix - Issho made it blatantly clear he was using Sabo as an excuse as to why he "could not halt Luffy from approaching Doflamingo" since he was too "busy" combating the Rev's No. 2. Sabo was even questioning his fighting methods. They have this convo at the end of their engagement

      Also, when Issho was unscathed and Sabo was visibly struggling before the former even got "serious", that should've been an indicator that Sabo's not exactly his equal.

      But yeah, I'm wondering if we're going to get Luffy's allies vs the marines Marineford-style. It's heavily suggested, at least.

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    • https://twitter.com/D_Kumii/status/1225928217573326848

      So it’s been a entire decade since Ace died.

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    • A whole decade. Damn.

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