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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    10:26, January 24, 2020

    Alien X/ Celstialsapiens have similar statements, feats and portrayal as other supreme beings.  The Creator from Wizard 101  scales from 3 characters simply because he created them, the speed of the  Soul King scales from the fastest Bleach characters simply because he created the 3 worlds and is the most powerful in the series( correct me if I'm wrong), the One Above All scales to everything in Marvel because he created everything & is stated to be far more powerful than anything else.

    This all seem very similar to the statements and feats Alien X have, as listed below, note that the usage of "Omnipotent" is used interchangeably as how this wiki uses the word "supreme being" i.e it simply means that he's above everything and anyone else in Ben 10, nothing more than that. : 


    • Alien X recreates the universe, including the Chronosapien TimeBomb, in Omniverse Episode "So long and thanks for all the smoothies"

    • At 00:30  in in Ben 10 Ultimate Alien episode "Forge of Creation" Azmuth says that the Celestialsapien "have the greatest power in the universe"

    • At 2:20 Azmuth says Alien X can do anything. Azmuth is the smartest being in the universe, according to Paradox.

    • At 4:57  Paradox states they are the source of the universe's greatest power.

    • At 5:11, Paradox calls a baby Celestialsapien omnipotent.

    • In Ben 10 omniverse episode "Universe vs Tennyson" at 14:00, Chadzmuth who’s an galvan like Azmuth calls The Celestialsapien race omnipotent.

    • At 5:50 in Ben 10 Omniverse episode "Weapon XI (Part 2)" Servantis states Alien X can erase everything from existance.

    • One of the creators states Alien X is Omnipotent.
    • One of the creator states Alien X can destroy the entirety of the Ben 10 cosmos
    • One of the creators states Alien X can have any power imaginable, ( which for obvious only includes powers from the Ben 10 series)



    Summary: Alien X has been shown to recreate the universe, meaning anything he recreated should scale to him  + he's consistently refered to by WOG and credible characters as having the greatest power in the universe & being more poweful than anything else, which is similar to the portrayal that the Soul King, the Creator & The One Above All have.

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    • Things like "Omnipotent" and "Can do anything" mean nothing without evidence.

      "Recreating the Universe" is just Universe level.

      "Greatest power in the Universe" at most means he is the strongest and fastest being in the universe.

      "Erasing Everything" is just Existence Erasure at most which is Hax.

      I don't know about the other stuff so I'll wait for others to comment.

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    • "omnipotent" just means that's above everybody and anything else, same with " can do anything". The evidence being he recreated the universe, including every ability and power within said universe.

      -If Alien X were to recreate a multiversal character or weapon, why would that not make him multiversal, when the Creator is multiversal simply for recreating 3 multiversal characters?

      -Erasing everything is hax yes, but the range implies everything in the Ben 10 cosmos.

      - And yes, he should be the fastest and strongest being in the unvierse, which means he should scale from Paradox and his weapon, that are both from the same universe + Paradox was one of the people who made that statement.

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    • Well most of this stuff we have already spoken about besides the has any power imaginable which I don't know how I feel about that

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    • Also in the thread where I discovered the could wipe everything out of existence Antvasima and Greenshifter said it justified as more evidence for Alien X being 2-B

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    • I don't think we should take the "could have any power imaginable" seriously because it is another Derrick J. Wyatt statement and he is pretty unreliable.

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    • how is he unreliable? and can you link the thread?

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    • Creating a weapon that can destroy something in no way means you scale to it. I guess humans now scale to the nuke.

      Omnipotent and can do anything are trown around in fiction a lot. Him recrating the universe is just that... Don't make it seem like it was something amazing given he is already Multiverse level. Creating something doesn't mean you have all of it's abilities unless proven.

      Regardless, I don't know what your even trying to do hear?. We already scale Alien X to 2-B and possibly Infinite Speed. What more do you want?.

      I don't think he should have all the powers of eveyone in the verse just because he recreated the universe... That's just Creation. Him being the strongest dosen't mean he has all their abilities either.

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    • He is unreliable because he just does the art for the show, so taking his words aren't very reliable.

      And here is the thread where Antvasima and Greenshifter agreed that Alien X being to erase everything out of existence is further justification for his 2-B rating.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3934631

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    • @Door You're basically saying Alien X should have every power within Ben 10 right? I'm kinda neutral for now and would prefer it if you waited a bit till we actually tiered most Ben 10 characters and their power and I'm also kinda busy myself in case a huge debate happens over this. Also the Chrono Navigator thread is more does the Navigator scale to itself rather than does it scale to Alien X. Also I think recreating the Time Bomb is sort of already accounted for but Professor Kukui has problems with this and I assume he is gonna bring arguments but only after the Chrono Navigator thread.

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    • Everything you are trying to push for already has been said and done besides the "could have any power imaginable" which is unreliable.

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    • @LordGriffin Creating a weapon from your own power source does probably scale you to it and the Creator from Wizard 101 is proof of it.

      Professor Paradox and Azmuth are supergeniuses while the former can't lie.

      @Epic Yeah we kinda already went through all of this.

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    • Also LordGriffen1000 Humans do scale to the nuke on this wiki

      Attack Potency: At least City level (Utilises powerful nuclear weapons), up to Island level (All the world's nuclear weapons should be this powerful when fired at once), negates conventional durability with chemical weapons, biological weapons and radioactive fallout

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    • Also as a side note I am not 100 % sure anymore about everything being everything and how the Ben 10 cosmos even works anymore because Ben, Kevin, Rook and Servantis mind screwed me. I'll probably create a cosmology blog in February tho so I'll figure it out... eventually.

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    • But I still agree with you that this CRT is useless since everything has been said and done besides the "could have any power imaginable" which is unreliable

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    • EpicCookie12342
      EpicCookie12342 removed this reply because:
      idk
      14:46, January 19, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • I mean it's not entirely useless, if the creators didn't say that Alien X can't manipulate mana then I'd probably agree that Alien X should get every power from at the very least every alien in the Omnitrix based on Azmuth saying he can do anything. But since they did I'm mostly neutral.

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    • I agree, but it is a statement by Derrick J. Wyatt who is the artist or art director and he is unreliable for statements like that

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    • The mana statement is by Derrick J. Wyatt?

      Well you're basically arguing in favor of Alien X scaling to every alien in the Omnitrix by saying that since Azmuth's statement happened in the show.

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    • No, I meant the "could have any power imaginable" statement I'm pretty sure the mana one was by Matt Wayne

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    • @LordGriffin

      >Creating a weapon that can destroy something in no way means you scale to it. I guess humans now scale to the nuke.

      You're making a false equivalence, he didnt create it by using materials and tools, he created it from literally nothingness, which is totatlly different from how humans create a nuke. This is in principple no different from how a character can create a planet-level energy blast from nothingness using only their hands.

      If humans were able to snap a nuke into existance + were stated to be the source of the greatest power in the universe, they should definitely scale from nukes.

      Yeah I know Omnipotent is thrown around alot in fiction, all I'm saying is that it portrays him as being above every other character and weapon in the series.  That's how omnipotent is usually used,to imply a character is far above every other character

      And yea you're right, I didnt know he got upgraded yesterday. His speed is still only "possible infinite" tho. Soul King gets speed scaling from every character in Bleach, I'm just suggesting we do the same to Alien X.

      This thread is meant to add additional evidence as for why he is 2-B

      @EpicCookie12342

      I see, but what about the other WOG statements? And thx, will read the thread later.

      @Greenshifter

      Maybe not every, but he should definitely scale from the TimeBomb, Kukui's problem with the Chrono Navigator is that he's saying it isnt multiversal due to how long time it takes to much time to destroy stuff and that it's only a chain reaction, however, Dimentio and Count Bleck are listed as multiversal despite their void taking litererally the entire length of the Super Paper Mario story to erase all of existance. Peach managed to sleep twice, after the void had started growing. 

      Also his problem with scaling the TimeBomb to Alien X was that the timebomb isnt hax, whereas  the "greatest power in the universe" refers to hax only, but existance erasure is considered hax, as @LordGriffin is also saying

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    • Yeah just checked it was by Wayne. I just don't know how to reconcile Azmuth's they can do anything statement with the they can't manipulate mana statement aside from saying they can do anything indirectly by altering the universe, thus basically upgrading his information manipulation, or mana is just a special case and doesn't really contradict Azmuth's statement since they can still manipulate it but by taking the long way around.

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    • I agree with the first part because a lot of characters scale to weapons even humans

      Attack Potency: At least City level (Utilises powerful nuclear weapons), up to Island level (All the world's nuclear weapons should be this powerful when fired at once), negates conventional durability with chemical weapons, biological weapons and radioactive fallout

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    • We need Antvasima and Andytrenom to give input 

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    • @Door well to be fair Paradox is a bit of a special case since he's outside of time and all so he's not really "doing anything" to move at infinite speed so I think it should stay at possibly or we would have to get into all the other statements again like the one about acausality type 2 but we've just done that so I'd leave speed be for now.

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    • @Greenshifter well, we dont accept author statements if they contradict the source material correct? Since the mana statement contradict statement from Azmuth, it should be dismissed. And okay, I will leave the speed for now.

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    • @Door you should probably message Antvasima and Andytrenom if you believe this will go anywhere

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    • @Epic ok, will do

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    • Yes but that will remove information manipulation and I liked that power.

      Either that or we have a lengthy discussion about information manipulation and whether Azmuth means if Alien X can do anything directly or indirectly...

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    • do you have the link for the mana WOG statement? He should have information mainpulation anyway for being stated by Serena to control time and space ,or what?

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    • 0A20E8D5-74B9-4813-8901-B36FC677AA92

      Nah that's space-time manipulation.

      Wait is that deconfirmation of Heroes United being canon? Oh boy that's not good...

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    • ok, thought space time manipulation was a type of infomraiton manipulation, nevermind. Yea it seems to confirm it isnt canon..

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    • Well Rip tier 6 Ben 10, not really but kinda. To be fair that statement got contradicted by the appearance of Shocksquatch in OV.

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    • Alien X is part of a species of equals. As such, he is a cosmic entity, but not a supreme being.

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    • Anyway, I do not think that it seems reliable to give Alien X every power in the Ben 10 universe, just the ones that he has actually demonstrated. My apologies.

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    • okay, but if not every ability, is it sufficient enough to scale him from the chrono navigator and time bomb? since i really dont see how his portrayal, feat and statement differ from the Creator's from the Wizard 101 that scales to 3 characters he created, simply for creating them and being stated to be above them.

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    • This all has been talked about before.

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    • Yes, and I am not the best person to argue about it, as I am already extremely busy.

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    • @Door well he currently already scales to the Navigator and there is a thread for that and Kukui is gonna bring up the CTB after that.

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    • thought he didnt scale, well nevermind then

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    • Well the thread is still open but Kukui is saying that the Navigator doesn’t scale to itself so it doesn’t really have anything to do with Alien X anymore.

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    • yea but his reasoning doesnt make sense for several reasons.

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    • We'll get it concluded don't worry.

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    • My area
      My area removed this reply because:
      Irrelevant comment
      11:56, January 23, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • @My Area Yes I saw the stuff with Zen’ō but don’t know what the actual conclusion was, if Zen’ō gets a resistance tho, then Alien X should also get all powers in Ben 10 (or at least if we ignore the mana statement).

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    • @Greenshifter

      How did you see my deleted comment? XD

      Zeno got them but it got removed as being supreme being or strongest doesn't mean he get resistence to all haxes that makes no sense at all so Alien X shouldn't too

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    • I travelled back in time via sheer speed to see your comment 😎

      Well as long as it’s removed then you are right.

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    • alrigt, but Zeno isnt the supreme being,  

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    • Well Alien X isn't the supreme being either, there are multiple of them and the Contemelia might be the supreme being. I'd bank mostly on Azmuth's statement here but I'd rather see the reasoning for Zeno first.

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    • yea he isnt technically supreme being, but i dont know what better words to use. he is portrayed simialrly to supreme beings, with the only difference being that he's a part of a  species all equal to him.

      and nah, alien x was able to pierce a barrier that the contemelia deemed impossible, he's above them.

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    • Ant called him a cosmic entity which does have a nice ring to it.

      Well yeah I guess but basically neither are the supreme beings since the Celestialsapiens didn't create the Contemelia and vice versa I think.

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    • Contemellia supreme being ? evidance of celestialsapien not creating them ? Celestialsapiens have been stated to form a group and survive Omniversal destruction the best feat contimella have creating Universe and even for that they need technology Furthermore celestialsapiens are redesigned the franchise and it's art style making them wayyy above contemellia

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    • Fine fine, I said supreme being cause they created all multiverses so relative to that structure they are supreme but I think neither the Contemelia nor the Celestialsapiens are true supreme beings since there can only be one to my knowledge.

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    • Me too they both aren't my ranking is Celestialsapiens >>> Contemllia >>>Naljins

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    • A supreme being is a singular entity completely superior to everybody else in the setting. Celestialsapiens are equal to each other, hence not supreme.

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    • Antvasima wrote: A supreme being is a singular entity completely superior to everybody else in the setting. Celestialsapiens are equal to each other, hence not supreme.

      1-yes celestialsapiens should be considered as a Supreme begins the fact that celestialsapien equal to each other doesn't mean they can't be considered as a suprême begins i mean yes celestialsapiens are equal to each other but they should be above anything in Ben 10 verse including weapons.

      2-also i don't think that all celestialsapiens equal each other because the creator saied that a celestialsapien can lose to a other Celestialsapien if he is stronger than him

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    • Our standards don't work like that. My apologies.

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    • Doorinmyhouse wrote:
      alrigt, but Zeno isnt the supreme being,  

      In Dragon ball verse he is a Supreme being because he is stated to wipe out everything in DB multiverse and in manga was claimed to be unbeatable

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    • Zeno has an equal which is his future counterpart, so if he's in the Supreme Beings category, it should be removed. Edit: He's not

      Also, this thread is going nowhere. I suggest we close this.

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    • I know,I mean by supreme being he is the strongest alongside other Zeno but since he isn't so isn't Alien X then this can be closed

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    • I am fine with closing this thread. Nothing is going to happen here.

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    • Hmmm I mean Alien_X is the prime version of celestialsapiens so doesn't that make Alien_X a suprême begin?

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    • No Bad it doesn’t he’d have to be far above the other Celestialsapiens for that to be the case.

      @Ant you can close this.

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    • They all have same abililites only difference is Ben is the most decisive Celestialsapien. 

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    • Greenshifter wrote: No Bad it doesn’t he’d have to be far above the other Celestialsapiens for that to be the case.

      @Ant you can close this.

      so does that mean Alien_X won't be classed above any weapon in the universe?
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    • in the universe?

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    • He’s still above any weapon in the universe/multiverse due to Paradox’s statement of strongest power don’t worry.

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    • I will close this now then. Thank you for helping out.

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