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  • AKM sama
    AKM sama closed this thread because:
    16:54, February 6, 2020
    • first.

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    • Now waits for the chaos when people debate the legitimacy of a non-canon game that has some canon elements as backstory that was not shown in the manga

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    • I am prepared

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    • You can say the Bonyu sections are definitely canon, but everything else is more up in the air. For example, would we consider the Frieza Force Chef on Namek to be canon? His species seems to have green skin and red hair, and they gain numerous massive buffs by eating different fruits.

      All we really know, to memory, is that Toriyama wrote interactions and stories in the game, nothing else. 

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    • In original Japanese Dub Of anime When Vegeta and Nappa arrive on Earth you can still see the Moon

      https://imgur.com/a/odqPymd

      Akira Toriyama retconned the entire scene of Vegeta saying there was no Moon and had him transform into a Great Ape via Power Ball because the sky was still daytime. https://imgur.com/a/3pPfsnF

      In original Japanese Dub Vegeta and Nappa arrive on Earth at 11:40 AM. Since they quickly destroyed the city they were in I would guess it took them 20 mins or less to reach Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin. So let’s say the battle with Saibamen started a little passed Noon 12:00 in the afternoon, maybe 12:05 - 12:10. As there is dialogue before the fight about piccolo origins of being a Namek, the Dragonballs, and the other z fighters showing up. The battle with Saibamen and Nappa was quick in manga. I’d assume it was 20 mins or close to 30 so maybe it was 12:30 - 12:40 in the afternoon when Vegeta says they will wait 3 hours for Goku to arrive. So now it is 3:30 - 3:40 pm when the battle resumes. Goku shows up like 5 - 15 Mins later. After a few min dialogue between Goku and Nappa that battle should be no longer than 10 mins. Goku and Vegeta then battle in a prolonged fight giving it everything they have let’s say this took 30 mins. The time would still be 4:30 - 4:40 A full moon wouldn’t even logically be up by that time.

      This would create plotholes for the past but this wouldn’t be the first time. AT retconned the entire original Bardock Movie into Dragonball Minus. Plus the whole S cells with saiyans, bibidi never created Majin Boo instead Boo is a entity that’s been around for billions of years Thus Goku and Piccolo BOZ would only scale from their 23rd Budokai versions just a bit stronger maybe 6-B.

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    • so we’re just gonna ignore this man’s name? (-.-)

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    • No, Piccolo and Goku scale to Piccolo's direct feat of blowing up the moon, we see it happen on screen and then Vegeta actively searching for the moon and not finding it, stop the reaching, DB Kakarot was talking about the fake moon from the filler episode, not the moon Piccolo blew up.

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    • Oh another one.

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    • Dragomer wrote: No, Piccolo and Goku scale to Piccolo's direct feat of blowing up the moon, we see it happen on screen and then Vegeta actively searching for the moon and not finding it, stop the reaching, DB Kakarot was talking about the fake moon from the filler episode, not the moon Piccolo blew up.

      The scene you’re talking about doesn’t even show up in the game. They are talking about Kid Gohan pre training with piccolo. As in the picture it shows Gohan pre Orange Gi. Toriyama retconned Vegeta not finding moon in the game as well as after the Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash Vegeta doesn’t say anything about the moon and just makes his own. Also the sky is still quite blue so the moon would not even be visible.

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    • Mister Fix It 200 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: No, Piccolo and Goku scale to Piccolo's direct feat of blowing up the moon, we see it happen on screen and then Vegeta actively searching for the moon and not finding it, stop the reaching, DB Kakarot was talking about the fake moon from the filler episode, not the moon Piccolo blew up.

      The scene you’re talking about doesn’t even show up in the game. They are talking about Kid Gohan pre training with piccolo. As in the picture it shows Gohan pre Orange Gi. Toriyama retconned Vegeta not finding moon in the game as well as after the Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash Vegeta doesn’t say anything about the moon and just makes his own. Also the sky is still quite blue so the moon would not even be visible.

      No, Toriyama didn't retcon anything and i'm talking about the illusion thing, that's what it was refering to, nothing else.

      Given that Vegeta can fly around the whole world easily, talking about blue sky is meaningless, Vegeta searched for it (meaning he could find it if it hadn't been destroyed) and didn't find it, nothing was retconned.

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      Mister Fix It 200 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: No, Piccolo and Goku scale to Piccolo's direct feat of blowing up the moon, we see it happen on screen and then Vegeta actively searching for the moon and not finding it, stop the reaching, DB Kakarot was talking about the fake moon from the filler episode, not the moon Piccolo blew up.

      The scene you’re talking about doesn’t even show up in the game. They are talking about Kid Gohan pre training with piccolo. As in the picture it shows Gohan pre Orange Gi. Toriyama retconned Vegeta not finding moon in the game as well as after the Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash Vegeta doesn’t say anything about the moon and just makes his own. Also the sky is still quite blue so the moon would not even be visible.

      No, Toriyama didn't retcon anything and i'm talking about the illusion thing, that's what it was refering to, nothing else.

      Given that Vegeta can fly around the whole world easily, talking about blue sky is meaningless, Vegeta searched for it (meaning he could find it if it hadn't been destroyed) and didn't find it, nothing was retconned.

      No it was indeed retconned.’ Akira Toriyama retconned Piccolo busting the Moon he made a illusion the moon was destroyed. Kid Gohan in his yellow and green suit getting chased by a dinosaur is proof that they are referring to when Gohan first transformed. As this happens in the game. The hologram moon epis de that you are talking about DOES NOT appear in the game, and in the anime Gohan was already far into his training with piccolo when that episode happened and had his Orange gi, the picture next to the statement is Gohan still in his yellow and green clothes. https://imgur.com/a/EPVBuO2

      The Japanese Dub you can still see the Moon when Nappa and Vegeta arrive to earth https://m.imgur.com/a/OLvHgiZ

      The Here scene of Vegeta looking for the Moon does not happen in the game

      https://imgur.com/a/cmso7iz

      Instead this happens

      https://imgur.com/a/w0OWrUI Right after the Kamehameha Galick Gun struggle Vegeta lands back down to make his own power ball. He never once mentions that there is no Moon. Also the sky is blue and not dark yet, so the Full Moon would not be visible. This means major CRT downgrade to Saiyan Saga Tiers being 6-B - 6-A scaling from their 23rd Budokai counterparts.

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    • Vegeta: This is getting annoying!

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    • All of this are just a desth of autor issue

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    • Imagine being a troll account and trying to argue that no one actually destroyed the moon, when two characters have canonically destroyed the moon, one of them before Goku was even a teenager. 0/10 bait, just ignore the bottom feeders trying to rile up responses over what's clearly a mistranslation.

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    • Mister Fix It 200 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote:


      Mister Fix It 200 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: No, Piccolo and Goku scale to Piccolo's direct feat of blowing up the moon, we see it happen on screen and then Vegeta actively searching for the moon and not finding it, stop the reaching, DB Kakarot was talking about the fake moon from the filler episode, not the moon Piccolo blew up.

      The scene you’re talking about doesn’t even show up in the game. They are talking about Kid Gohan pre training with piccolo. As in the picture it shows Gohan pre Orange Gi.

      Toriyama retconned Vegeta not finding moon in the game as well as after the Kamehameha and Galick Gun clash Vegeta doesn’t say anything about the moon and just makes his own. Also the sky is still quite blue so the moon would not even be visible.

      No, Toriyama didn't retcon anything and i'm talking about the illusion thing, that's what it was refering to, nothing else.

      Given that Vegeta can fly around the whole world easily, talking about blue sky is meaningless, Vegeta searched for it (meaning he could find it if it hadn't been destroyed) and didn't find it, nothing was retconned.

      No it was indeed retconned.’ Akira Toriyama retconned Piccolo busting the Moon he made a illusion the moon was destroyed. Kid Gohan in his yellow and green suit getting chased by a dinosaur is proof that they are referring to when Gohan first transformed. As this happens in the game. The hologram moon epis de that you are talking about DOES NOT appear in the game, and in the anime Gohan was already far into his training with piccolo when that episode happened and had his Orange gi, the picture next to the statement is Gohan still in his yellow and green clothes.

      https://imgur.com/a/EPVBuO2

      The Japanese Dub you can still see the Moon when Nappa and Vegeta arrive to earth https://m.imgur.com/a/OLvHgiZ

      The Here scene of Vegeta looking for the Moon does not happen in the game

      https://imgur.com/a/cmso7iz

      Instead this happens

      https://imgur.com/a/w0OWrUI Right after the Kamehameha Galick Gun struggle Vegeta lands back down to make his own power ball. He never once mentions that there is no Moon. Also the sky is blue and not dark yet, so the Full Moon would not be visible. This means major CRT downgrade to Saiyan Saga Tiers being 6-B - 6-A scaling from their 23rd Budokai counterparts.

      No, he didn't, what appear or not in the game doesn't change what the codex entry refer to.

      That's the anime and that's just a minor scene's inconsistency to make a shot look better, that change nothing.

      Obviously it doesn't happen, you can't just leave the playable character's point of view in the middle of a game, unlike a manga.

      Except that sky being blue or not change nothing when Vegeta can easily fly around the world or high enough to see the moon anyway.

      So no, this mean nothing, having a scene cut because you can't leave Goku's POV like that in game doesn't suddenly uncanonise the manga.

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    • In the anime, Vegeta had chestnut-brown hair and green-and-orange battle armor for like five entire episodes before Toriyama finally gave them the real coloration.

      I don't trust anything about what the Z anime shows visually. The original manga will always take precedence.

      These trolls might as well be arguing like this dude I knew on an RP site. Used an off-the-wall 2016 quote from J.K Rowling's FAQ section on her website that said Accio was at or close to light speed or some shit to justify Voldemort having FTL reaction speeds, when the original source material clearly contradicts that. Same for Piccolo blowing up the moon. There were multiple panels and pages dedicated not only to its destruction, but Vegeta's futile search for it afterward. This 100% takes precedence over a poorly-worded codex snippet that is more than likely a mistranslation regarding Z filler as opposed to an actual retcon. I would love to have Herms or someone translate the original Japanese version of it so we can have a more reliable translation (especially considering how poorly Bandai-Namco and the other production companies involved in these games oversee their translations).

      Unfortunately, I've no idea how or where we might find the original Japanese text to do so.

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    • According to the game, "for being a Saiyan, Goku is able to transform into Oozaru, as long as he has his tail. In order to prevent Goku from transforming again, Kami Sama removed his tail. There is still a small chance that it will grow back, although it does not seem to be the case when a Saiyan becomes as strong as Goku."

      So according to the game, the tail only grows to compensate for a low power level?

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    • Giving a bit more context, a Saiyan's tail has an 8% chance of growing back, but it does NOT seem to grow back if the Saiyan's power exceeds that of his Oozaru transformation before losing his tail.

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    • That could explain why Universe 6 Saiyans don't have tails--they improved as a species to the point that the Oozaru form became unnecessary for their survival.


      ...Ultimately, I kind of hate that idea. The Oozaru form is one of my favorite parts of Dragon Ball, and I've always wanted to see more done with it, not less. Like c'mon, imagine a SSBE Great Ape Vegeta in his current battle armor. Have something like from the DBMultiverse fan comic where Vegeta could create a Blutz Wave generator in his eyes to go Great Ape, without giving his opponents a moon or power ball to destroy...


      Oh, well. My dreams of Dragon Ball occasionally featuring kaiju fights will never come true. (Always thought it a bitter disappointment that Goku couldn't go Oozaru to match Giant Form Piccolo, or Super Great Ape to fight Hirudegarn on an even scale...)

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    • I mean, 'your body decide the tail is a liability and stop regrowing it after you reach a certain level of power' is basicaly what Toriyama said about it anyway, that codex is basicaly Toriyama's quote with a bit of info added (the 8% thing)

      I agree it's too bad for the Kaiju fights but DB was always very Wuxia inspired and Kaiju fight are few and far between in that genre.

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    • Don’t you just hate that moment in life when you’re broke so you have to use TheRadBrad as an outlet to the DBZK experience.

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    • gg


      im using my boi afrosenju

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    • i'm waiting for TFSPlays

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    • AKM sama wrote: Now waits for the chaos when people debate the legitimacy of a non-canon game that has some canon elements as backstory that was not shown in the manga

      And I'm waiting for people to use Dragon Ball Online to upgrade Chronoa to 2-A.

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    • I like how even TFS had to come out against the 'Goku is a bad dad' meme when a few article about it popped up around DB Kakarot.

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    • The head writer for TFS, KaiserNeko, has stated repeatedly over the last two years that he's long reflected and thought about how they could have handled the Goku and Gohan thing differently.

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    • ^

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    • How bout u guys talk about something that’s actually relevant like the recent Super manga chapter given leaks are popping out

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    • dbz kakarot came out like 2 days ago how is that not relevant

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    • can someone please explain to me how SSG Goku scales to Beerus's speed flying to that alien planet to get food?

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.

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    • Tipper17 wrote:
      How bout u guys talk about something that’s actually relevant like the recent Super manga chapter given leaks are popping out

      The manga chapter aren't relevant since the staff already said we don't use info from the manga like the angels being immortal.

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    • My boy Yamcha putting in some work

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      Tipper17 wrote:
      How bout u guys talk about something that’s actually relevant like the recent Super manga chapter given leaks are popping out

      The manga chapter aren't relevant since the staff already said we don't use info from the manga like the angels being immortal.

      Yet we have profiles for characters like vegeta,moro and goku in the manga version so nah it’s relevant

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    • Tipper17 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote:

      Tipper17 wrote:
      How bout u guys talk about something that’s actually relevant like the recent Super manga chapter given leaks are popping out
      The manga chapter aren't relevant since the staff already said we don't use info from the manga like the angels being immortal.
      Yet we have profiles for characters like vegeta,moro and goku in the manga version so nah it’s relevant

      Nah, it's really not, We don't even have a Merus profile, it's irrelevant.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.

      No, I meant how he almost instantly traveled to this super distant planet because he said Whis was taking too long to get food. There's nothing that suggests he was as suppressed then as when he fought Goku. 

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    • Yeah, Toyotaro's glorified fanfic is irrelevant.

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    • PFM18 wrote:
      CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.
      No, I meant how he almost instantly traveled to this super distant planet because he said Whis was taking too long to get food. There's nothing that suggests he was as suppressed then as when he fought Goku. 

      So Beerus would use less power when getting excited during a fight he has been waiting decades for than to follow Whis to tell him he was a few seconds late ? given how lazy Beerus is, he would have went to sleep rather than go after Whis if it took any energy to follow Whis.

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote: Hmmmm

      man goten and trunks are just never going to do anything huh

      it was the buu saga and gotenks and that was all they got

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    • Good lord 86 of these damn things....

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote: Good lord 86 of these damn things....

      lmao sometimes i wonder if we're going to get to 100 before Super starts again

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    • Dragomer wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.
      No, I meant how he almost instantly traveled to this super distant planet because he said Whis was taking too long to get food. There's nothing that suggests he was as suppressed then as when he fought Goku. 
      So Beerus would use less power when getting excited during a fight he has been waiting decades for than to follow Whis to tell him he was a few seconds late ? given how lazy Beerus is, he would have went to sleep rather than go after Whis if it took any energy to follow Whis.

      We know for a fact that he used less than .1% of his power against Goku. SSBKKx20 Goku is still weaker than Beerus. Why the hell would he use 1/1000th of his power when trying to catch up to Whis? At least against Goku, he knew that Goku couldn't handle any more power than he was using so there was a reason to not use more. 

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    • PFM18 wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.
      No, I meant how he almost instantly traveled to this super distant planet because he said Whis was taking too long to get food. There's nothing that suggests he was as suppressed then as when he fought Goku. 
      So Beerus would use less power when getting excited during a fight he has been waiting decades for than to follow Whis to tell him he was a few seconds late ? given how lazy Beerus is, he would have went to sleep rather than go after Whis if it took any energy to follow Whis.
      We know for a fact that he used less than .1% of his power against Goku. SSBKKx20 Goku is still weaker than Beerus. Why the hell would he use 1/1000th of his power when trying to catch up to Whis? At least against Goku, he knew that Goku couldn't handle any more power than he was using so there was a reason to not use more. 

      Because he is a lazy fuck we've litteraly never seen powering up and if using more energy than he did against Goku was something he constantly use for minor chore he wouldn't gave a shit about SSJG Goku, it's made clear that the ammount he used against SSJG Goku was far above what he usualy use.

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    • Dragon Ball Super Manga is ahead of the anime....therefore it’s relevant, and when the anime comes out anything that didn’t appear in the manga will be filler. Some of you guys just choose to not take info from other sources.

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    • Dragomer wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If you mean the planet he half-destroyed, I would assume it's assumed that Beerus was using roughly the same maximum of power across all of Battle of Gods.
      No, I meant how he almost instantly traveled to this super distant planet because he said Whis was taking too long to get food. There's nothing that suggests he was as suppressed then as when he fought Goku. 
      So Beerus would use less power when getting excited during a fight he has been waiting decades for than to follow Whis to tell him he was a few seconds late ? given how lazy Beerus is, he would have went to sleep rather than go after Whis if it took any energy to follow Whis.
      We know for a fact that he used less than .1% of his power against Goku. SSBKKx20 Goku is still weaker than Beerus. Why the hell would he use 1/1000th of his power when trying to catch up to Whis? At least against Goku, he knew that Goku couldn't handle any more power than he was using so there was a reason to not use more. 
      Because he is a lazy fuck we've litteraly never seen powering up and if using more energy than he did against Goku was something he constantly use for minor chore he wouldn't gave a shit about SSJG Goku, it's made clear that the ammount he used against SSJG Goku was far above what he usualy use.

      why SHOULD he give a shit about SSG Goku? He's literally an absolute bare minimum of 1,000x stronger than Goku. He's more of a challenge than he has ever had, still he's absolutely fucking nothing to him. Doesn't make a ton of sense either way. There's no reason why he should be so suppressed to travel places he wants to go. He's impatient, why would he want to take longer to get places?? Especially thousands of times slower?

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    • He did, we litteraly see on screen that he cared about fighting Goku and that he liked it enough to spare earth and express his amazement at Goku multiple time.

      Yes, Goku was basicaly nothing to him but at was still the best he had in a long ass time, that's even the only moment we even saw Beerus's aura, he was clearly putting more effort in that than in nonchallantly walking up to Whis.

      There is a reason, he is lazy and clearly making no effort nor does he seems to be anything other than his usualy lazy self.

      For the same reason you don't run at full speed toward the kitchen when you want to see why your buddy is still not back from preparing the sandwiches.

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    • Dragomer wrote:
      He did, we litteraly see on screen that he cared about fighting Goku and that he liked it enough to spare earth and express his amazement at Goku multiple time.

      Yeah? I didn't disagree with that. 

      Yes, Goku was basicaly nothing to him but at was still the best he had in a long ass time, that's even the only moment we even saw Beerus's aura, he was clearly putting more effort in that than in nonchallantly walking up to Whis.   

      Yes, he's nothing to him whatsoever, completely insignificant. The fact that he's the strongest he had fought in millions of years isn't relevant to how it compares to his casual travel speed.  And "he showed an aura" isn't an argument because we don't actually get to see Beerus going to find Whis. It's done off-screen, we just see him show up on the planet where Whis is. 

       For the same reason you don't run at full speed toward the kitchen when you want to see why your buddy is still not back from preparing the sandwiches.  

      See, now this is an actual argument. Interesting point. This is why I asked for people's rational. 

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    • ...So, SSGod Goku in BoG scales to 70% of Beerus' power, from a statement from Beerus himself stating that he used 70% power fighting Goku.



      70% of a speed feat that is quadrillions of times faster than light is still at least trillions of times faster than light. Everyone in Super that's in the top-tiers scale to this.

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      ...So, SSGod Goku in BoG scales to 70% of Beerus' power, from a statement from Beerus himself stating that he used 70% power fighting Goku.


      70% of a speed feat that is quadrillions of times faster than light is still at least trillions of times faster than light. Everyone in Super that's in the top-tiers scale to this.

      Nope. That line is movie only, it is not applicable to Super and is therefore irrelevant completely. 

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    • PFM18 wrote:
      A Stoned Orc wrote:
      ...So, SSGod Goku in BoG scales to 70% of Beerus' power, from a statement from Beerus himself stating that he used 70% power fighting Goku.


      70% of a speed feat that is quadrillions of times faster than light is still at least trillions of times faster than light. Everyone in Super that's in the top-tiers scale to this.

      Nope. That line is movie only, it is not applicable to Super and is therefore irrelevant completely. 

      Okay, then tell me, where do you get the "less than .1%" value of his power? Because that's not in the anime anywhere, and there's nothing indicating that Beerus was so vastly holding back, considering that it's stated repeatedly that SSGod was supposed to be his rival in power by the Oracle Fish, and by Beerus' own prophetic dream.

      EDIT: Beerus even states in Episode 11, speaking honestly, that he needed to use "a staggering amount of my power", and that "for a moment, I regetted being so obsessed". Doesn't sound like someone who used .1% of his power to me, or even less than 50%. Regardless, it'd still be a speed rating trillions of times faster than light.

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    • The writers probably didn't know at the time how power levels would change and how the scope of the series would grow. Even in RoF (movie), Beerus was god tier and everyone was an ant compared to him, but according to Toriyama, Beerus used 60% of his total power against SSJG Goku, and SSJB Goku would be significantly stronger than his past SSJG self, and consequently stronger than Beerus due to sheer base form growth and multipliers.

      But I seem to recall Beerus saying that he used 5% against enraged Vegeta, which, again, is not true because not even SSJBKKx20 is 5% of Beerus, and it wouldn't make sense for Beerus to use that much power against Vegeta.

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    • NEWS. BEAST MAN IN DRAGON BALL IS  BASICALLY DRUGED MANS

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    • INCLUDING THE KING FURRY

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:

      PFM18 wrote:
      A Stoned Orc wrote:
      ...So, SSGod Goku in BoG scales to 70% of Beerus' power, from a statement from Beerus himself stating that he used 70% power fighting Goku.


      70% of a speed feat that is quadrillions of times faster than light is still at least trillions of times faster than light. Everyone in Super that's in the top-tiers scale to this.

      Nope. That line is movie only, it is not applicable to Super and is therefore irrelevant completely. 

      Okay, then tell me, where do you get the "less than .1%" value of his power? Because that's not in the anime anywhere, and there's nothing indicating that Beerus was so vastly holding back, considering that it's stated repeatedly that SSGod was supposed to be his rival in power by the Oracle Fish, and by Beerus' own prophetic dream.

      EDIT: Beerus even states in Episode 11, speaking honestly, that he needed to use "a staggering amount of my power", and that "for a moment, I regetted being so obsessed". Doesn't sound like someone who used .1% of his power to me, or even less than 50%. Regardless, it'd still be a speed rating trillions of times faster than light.

      Because SSBKKX20 Goku is still weaker than Beerus. SSB is 50x SSG and KKx20 is times 20. Goku is therefore, at absolute MOST .1% of Beerus. And....the entire series after BoG suggests he was holding back severely???

      He also admitted that he lied about the power he used. So like, nice try I guess.

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    • Veku large size type 11 when?

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    • HAKKAIDER wrote:
      NEWS. BEAST MAN IN DRAGON BALL IS  BASICALLY DRUGED MANS

      Wot?

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    • AKM sama wrote:

      The animal earthlings are all humans that took drugs to become furries. This is shown in a quest in Kakarot.

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    • So someone managed to eradicate drugs in the Dragon World cause there's no furries eventually

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote: The writers probably didn't know at the time how power levels would change and how the scope of the series would grow. Even in RoF (movie), Beerus was god tier and everyone was an ant compared to him, but according to Toriyama, Beerus used 60% of his total power against SSJG Goku, and SSJB Goku would be significantly stronger than his past SSJG self, and consequently stronger than Beerus due to sheer base form growth and multipliers.

      But I seem to recall Beerus saying that he used 5% against enraged Vegeta, which, again, is not true because not even SSJBKKx20 is 5% of Beerus, and it wouldn't make sense for Beerus to use that much power against Vegeta.

      Makes you question how Beerus was ever satisfied with SSG Goku. I am pretty sure that an argument can be made for Beerus not using even 0.1% of his power against Goku.

      We all know by now that the writers "and Toriyama" make shit up as they go but it feels like they don't even look at past events for consistency.

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    • I cant believe the OG Dragon Ball group has two kids that took drugs

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    • Well, Puar and Oolong are apparently 3 years older than Goku. So it's not too crazy to imagine a pair of 15+ year olds taking super special drugs for a furry fad.

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    • I though they were both 7?

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    • actually 9

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    • Yeah, you're right. I misremembered the dates. They are actually three years younger than Goku.

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    • Eh, people in the Dragon World aren't exactly super responsible.

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    • ngl I feel that if we use DBZK feats we should just make a new profile entirely so to not get continuity mixed up.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      Well, Puar and Oolong are apparently 3 years older than Goku. So it's not too crazy to imagine a pair of 15+ year olds taking super special drugs for a furry fad.

      Puar and Oolong are shapeshifter though and went to the shapeshifting school, what apply to the other animal humans doesn't apply to them really, same for Wolfman, his transformation was clearly not related to a drug.

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    • Should I get Gogeta or Broly for DBFZ DLC.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      ArgosaxDespair wrote: The writers probably didn't know at the time how power levels would change and how the scope of the series would grow. Even in RoF (movie), Beerus was god tier and everyone was an ant compared to him, but according to Toriyama, Beerus used 60% of his total power against SSJG Goku, and SSJB Goku would be significantly stronger than his past SSJG self, and consequently stronger than Beerus due to sheer base form growth and multipliers.

      But I seem to recall Beerus saying that he used 5% against enraged Vegeta, which, again, is not true because not even SSJBKKx20 is 5% of Beerus, and it wouldn't make sense for Beerus to use that much power against Vegeta.

      Makes you question how Beerus was ever satisfied with SSG Goku. I am pretty sure that an argument can be made for Beerus not using even 0.1% of his power against Goku.

      We all know by now that the writers "and Toriyama" make shit up as they go but it feels like they don't even look at past events for consistency.

      Yeah there is no way around it really. He definitely didn't use even .1% of his powera against SSG Goku. 

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    • The english narrator of DBZ died.

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    • AwkguyDB
      AwkguyDB removed this reply because:
      nevermind
      22:40, January 20, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • Zamasu Chan wrote: Should I get Gogeta or Broly for DBFZ DLC.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2vMUV9Tzww&t=151s

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    • Dragomer wrote: The english narrator of DBZ died.

      May he Rest In Peace.

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    • That's Captain Ginyu's voice actor right?

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    • AwkguyDB wrote:
      That's Captain Ginyu's voice actor right?

      Yup, the english one at least.

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:

      Dragonmasterxyz wrote: Good lord 86 of these damn things....

      lmao sometimes i wonder if we're going to get to 100 before Super starts again

      LMAO Implying Super will start again

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    • F

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      Tipper17 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote:

      Tipper17 wrote:
      How bout u guys talk about something that’s actually relevant like the recent Super manga chapter given leaks are popping out
      The manga chapter aren't relevant since the staff already said we don't use info from the manga like the angels being immortal.
      Yet we have profiles for characters like vegeta,moro and goku in the manga version so nah it’s relevant

      Nah, it's really not, We don't even have a Merus profile, it's irrelevant.

      And once again it’s not considering it’s only thing that we have that’s ongoing while the anime is gone

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    • Shouldn't angels at least have "Longevity, Possibly Immortality (Type 1)" for living for thousands of years or more alongside their GoDs?

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      Shouldn't angels at least have "Longevity, Possibly Immortality (Type 1)" for living for thousands of years or more alongside their GoDs?

      Beerus has been a god for at least 75 million years. thousands is nothing to them.

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    • Either way, that's just further support

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      Either way, that's just further support

      Yep.

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    • Wait I'm confused, I thought the game said Piccolo created an illusion to make the moon dissappear? Yet here in this clip you can clearly see he just destroys it.

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    • FTW395 wrote:Wait I'm confused, I thought the game said Piccolo created an illusion to make the moon dissappear? Yet here in this clip you can clearly see he just destroys it.

      It's a mistranslation / confusion over a reference to the old filler where there was an holographic moon that turned Gohan into an Oozaru again and Piccolo couldn't just blast since it was an hologram.

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    • wait so now do we have to upgrade Kid Goku's Oozaru transformation?

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    • Genericstickman wrote:
      wait so now do we have to upgrade Kid Goku's Oozaru transformation?

      why

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    • Genericstickman wrote: wait so now do we have to upgrade Kid Goku's Oozaru transformation?

      He would scale to the new moon bust results if it’s calced and accepted.

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      Puar and Oolong are shapeshifter though and went to the shapeshifting school, what apply to the other animal humans doesn't apply to them really, same for Wolfman, his transformation was clearly not related to a drug.

      Are shapeshifters unique creatures? I always held the impression it was just an ability they learned.

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    • And we also now know how long the beam took to travel to the moon, about 3 seconds or less.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:

      Puar and Oolong are shapeshifter though and went to the shapeshifting school, what apply to the other animal humans doesn't apply to them really, same for Wolfman, his transformation was clearly not related to a drug.

      Are shapeshifters unique creatures? I always held the impression it was just an ability they learned.

      They are clearly portrayed as different from the animal humans IMO, especialy puar.

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      I can see Puar, but Oolong seems about the same as any other animal earthling to me.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      Good lord 86 of these damn things....

      ...it was 65 when Super ended

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    • So it took us a few years to make around 8400 post ? interesting

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    • we'll probably be on 120 by the time 2uper comes.

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    • AwkguyDB wrote:
      we'll probably be on 120 by the time 2uper comes.

      What do you mean ? 2uper has been here since July 2019, Geekdom said so, remember ?

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    • AwkguyDB wrote:
      we'll probably be on 120 by the time 2uper comes.
      Blhhha
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    • Who wanna bet that 2uper will come back without any announcement or advertisement right after we got another SDBH announcement no one cares about at a big hype event ?

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    • Mr.Cinos15 wrote: And we also now know how long the beam took to travel to the moon, about 3 seconds or less.

      Yeah that is about as long as it took.

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    • Dragomer wrote: Who wanna bet that 2uper will come back without any announcement or advertisement right after we got another SDBH announcement no one cares about at a big hype event ?

      Lets hope you never get at job at this type of stuff~

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: Who wanna bet that 2uper will come back without any announcement or advertisement right after we got another SDBH announcement no one cares about at a big hype event ?

      Lets hope you never get at job at this type of stuff~

      Last two big DB events with announcement ended up being about SDBH, can you honestly tell me they wouldn't fuck up that hard ?

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    • I agree that they have a shitty promotional schedule and plans but releasing a new season of a big anime without any announcement whatsoever is taking it next level.

      Toei usually gives us a head up 3 months prior at least like they did with DBS and now the new Digimon anime.

      I doubt it's happining this year with the new Digimon anime tbh.

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    • Time to end this notorious debate:


      https://imgur.com/a/T06fYDg https://imgur.com/a/T06fYDg

      Piccolo actually did destroy the moon unlike what the error says in kakarot. In the same game when King Cold and Frieza arrive we can not see the Moon at all. So piccolo is still moon+ Level. Also anyone can use that link to debunk if they want.

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    • MikeLarry600 wrote: Time to end this notorious debate:


      https://imgur.com/a/T06fYDg https://imgur.com/a/T06fYDg

      Piccolo actually did destroy the moon unlike what the error says in kakarot. In the same game when King Cold and Frieza arrive we can not see the Moon at all. So piccolo is still moon+ Level. Also anyone can use that link to debunk if they want.

      Is DB's earth actually without a moon this whole time? Man this souns so stupid. I never thought about that.

      Can't they just wish for a new moon? Pretty sure if this happened in real life it would cause all sorts of problems

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    • So scientifically speaking, what would the effects on the Earth without a moon be? Apart from waterbenders losing their bending and absence of tides

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    • AKM sama wrote:
      So scientifically speaking, what would the effects on the Earth without a moon be? Apart from waterbenders losing their bending and absence of tides </div>

      Tsunami, tsunami everywhere.

      Also Kami is noted recreate the moon when it's destroyed.

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    • ZERO7772
      ZERO7772 removed this reply because:
      s
      19:22, January 21, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • AKM sama wrote: So scientifically speaking, what would the effects on the Earth without a moon be? Apart from waterbenders losing their bending and absence of tides </div>

      The water bump falling due to moon gravity being erased would immediately....drown every continent. Think of also all the sea lives that it will end and how it will affect the surface and our lives.

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    • I headcanon that Kami was responsible for keeping the world's balance together, even with the moon blown up.

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    • I headcanon that DB's earth just has really good anti flood tech and that their fish are just that tough.

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    • Sometimes I forget the dinosaurs never went extinct in DB. Is Icarus (Gohan's dragon) canon?

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:
      Sometimes I forget the dinosaurs never went extinct in DB. Is Icarus (Gohan's dragon) canon?

      No, his specie is but not him IIRC

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    • Man, DB earth is really weird. Is King Furry canon?

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:
      Man, DB earth is really weird. Is King Furry canon?

      Yes, he appear in the manga, you can hardly be more canon than that.

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    • wild

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    • so do we have any OTHER basis for saying Goku's speed is MFTL+ in Super?

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    • I don't recall, although upscaling from his FTL+ may be one.

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      If we just took Base Goku's speed against Frieza and assumed SS2 was at least 2x SS we get:

      • Base Goku = FTL (2x)
      • SS Goku = MFTL (100x)
      • SS2 Goku = MFTL (200x)

      Super Saiyan 3 should be much faster than Super Saiyan 2, but let's low-ball things massively by claiming SSG is as strong as SS2 and take the fact that SSB is SSG x SS

      • SSB Goku = MFTL+ (10,000x)

      And, of course, X10 and X20 SSB Goku would be 100,000 to 200,000x FTL.

      It's overall impossible to claim Goku isn't MFTL+ in Super, you'd have to grossly lowball him to the lowest degree imaginable. This isn't even considering things like UIS (which is considered at least 40x Blue) or all of the power increases he would have had between Namek and the ToP for his base form, that would make far faster.

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    • Goten, Trunks and Chi-Chi straight up using Reality Warping

      Idongetit
      Idontgetit2
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    • Obviously they just learned the Multi-Form technique. But Goten and Trunks seem to have pooled their energies together to create a Gotenks clone, which is pretty impressive.

      This makes the Goten + Trunks duo far more formiddable, now that they can form armies of Gotenks copies.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:
      If we just took Base Goku's speed against Frieza and assumed SS2 was at least 2x SS we get:
      • Base Goku = FTL (2x)
      • SS Goku = MFTL (100x)
      • SS2 Goku = MFTL (200x)

      Super Saiyan 3 should be much faster than Super Saiyan 2, but let's low-ball things massively by claiming SSG is as strong as SS2 and take the fact that SSB is SSG x SS

      • SSB Goku = MFTL+ (10,000x)

      And, of course, X10 and X20 SSB Goku would be 100,000 to 200,000x FTL.

      It's overall impossible to claim Goku isn't MFTL+ in Super, you'd have to grossly lowball him to the lowest degree imaginable. This isn't even considering things like UIS (which is considered at least 40x Blue) or all of the power increases he would have had between Namek and the ToP for his base form, that would make far faster.

      I mean Base Goku. What is the basis for Base Goku being MFTL+ other than the claim that he scales to a casual Beerus because SSG Goku scales to the suppressed Beerus he fought. I understand that people on this site seem to believe(for some reason) that Base Goku>BoG SSG, but I have already explained why I doubt BoG SSG Goku scaling to Beerus's speed when he caught up to Whis trying to get food for him. 

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    • The fact that Base Goku post-SSG is vastly stronger than he ever was as a SSJ3, which as Cryo explained, should already be pushing more than 200x FTL (or MFTL).

      So Base Goku, ignoring the previous scaling chain from the movies, should be far faster than 200 c (MFTL) in Super, at least several tens of thousands of times if he doesn't scale to Beerus.

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      Post-SSG SS Goku is as strong as he was with SSG, so with my scaling (SSG = SS2), a hyper lowballed Base Goku would be at least 4x FTL.

      However, it has been calculated that Goku (after absorbing SSG) became at least twice as powerful, meaning Base Goku would actually be at least 8x FTL.

      So, even if I low ball Goku down to assuming he never grew stronger after Namek, and SSG was only as strong as SS2, Goku should still end up at 8x FTL prior to his training under Whis.

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      The fact that Base Goku post-SSG is vastly stronger than he ever was as a SSJ3, which as Cryo explained, should already be pushing more than 200x FTL (or MFTL).

      So Base Goku, ignoring the previous scaling chain from the movies, should be far faster than 200 c (MFTL) in Super, at least several tens of thousands of times if he doesn't scale to Beerus.

      I mean are there any feats alone that place him that high in Super? Scaling from previous feats is a different thing. 

       However, it has been calculated that Goku (after absorbing SSG) became at least twice as powerful, meaning Base Goku would actually be at least 8x FTL.  

      I have already discussed this nonsense about Base Goku post SSG>BoG SSG Goku at length several times now. All that people can come up with is apparently lying about dialogue and context. 

       So, even if I low ball Goku down to assuming he never grew stronger after Namek, and SSG was only as strong as SS2, Goku should still end up at 8x FTL prior to his training under Whis.  

      8x FTL? Or NOT Massively FTL+?

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    • There are no feats alone that place him that high in Super, no. It's all on the scaling chain until you reach Jiren/MUI, who absolutely 100% scale to Beerus' 300 quadrillion times FTL speed feat.

      Also, you completely misread the part about Goku absorbing SSG. Whatever you think of whether or not Goku has access to god power in base, to deny that Base Goku didn't get stronger at all by fighting in SSG and absorbing it into SSJ is ridiculous in the extreme. SSJ is still accepted as a 40x multiplier in Super on this website, so his base would still scale to 40x less than that.

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    • Any proof that Dragon Ball universe is infinite? It seems Marvel and DC have a way bigger cosmology.

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    • Proper9 wrote:
      Any proof that Dragon Ball universe is infinite? It seems Marvel and DC have a way bigger cosmology.

      Obviously, they do. Marvel and DC have many, many more than infinite variations of only 12 universes; DC has infinite variations on 52 universes, and Marvel is a true infinite multiverse with infinite variations of each universe.


      What we do know is that the "globe" containing Universe 7 is at least 2x the size of the observable universe IRL, thanks to this calc by The 2nd Existential Seed/SSBMonado: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_2nd_Existential_Seed/Dragon_Ball_Universe_size

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      There are no feats alone that place him that high in Super, no. It's all on the scaling chain until you reach Jiren/MUI, who absolutely 100% scale to Beerus' 300 quadrillion times FTL speed feat.

      Also, you completely misread the part about Goku absorbing SSG. Whatever you think of whether or not Goku has access to god power in base, to deny that Base Goku didn't get stronger at all by fighting in SSG and absorbing it into SSJ is ridiculous in the extreme. SSJ is still accepted as a 40x multiplier in Super on this website, so his base would still scale to 40x less than that.

      Yeah. Was it 300 quadrillion? I thought it was much more than that. Oh well. 

      I didn't dispute that. Obvioiusly Base Goku(post-ritual)>>>>>>>>>>SSJ3 Goku(pre-ritual) nobody is denying that. his Base form is more than 1/50th BoG SSG any time after the ritual of course. I was disputing the guy's claim that Base Goku post-SSG is more than twice as strong as BoG SSG, which is insane. 

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    • All right just wondering because I had a guy say the cosmology was bigger than marvel. It was quite hilarious.

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      8x FTL? Or NOT Massively FTL+?

      If you claim he never grew any stronger in his base form, and SSG is only as strong as SS2 that's the figure it comes to.

      If you want to discuss actual powerscaling, we could be here all day with the number of power increases and training that Goku underwent since Namek and arguing Super Saiyan 2, 3 and God multipliers is always a mess.

      Point being, the absolute minimum speed for Base Goku is around 1/100th of MFTL+ by lowballing just about every statistic provided in the series.

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      I have already discussed this nonsense about Base Goku post SSG>BoG SSG Goku at length several times now. All that people can come up with is apparently lying about dialogue and context. 

      I never stated Base Goku surpasses SSG though. I explicitly stated that Super Saiyan Goku scales to SSG Goku, and that Base Goku would be 1/50th of that.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:

      PFM18 wrote:

      I have already discussed this nonsense about Base Goku post SSG>BoG SSG Goku at length several times now. All that people can come up with is apparently lying about dialogue and context. 

      I never stated Base Goku surpasses SSG though. I explicitly stated that Super Saiyan Goku scales to SSG Goku, and that Base Goku would be 1/50th of that.

      See now that, makes perfect sense. But that's not what you said

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      -snip-

      See now that, makes perfect sense. But that's not what you said

      "Post-SSG SS Goku is as strong as he was with SSG, so with my scaling (SSG = SS2), a hyper lowballed Base Goku would be at least 4x FTL.

      However, it has been calculated that Goku (after absorbing SSG) became at least twice as powerful, meaning Base Goku would actually be at least 8x FTL."

      He meant this part "Goku (after absorbing SSG)", was taking into account the first part of the post, that SSG was only absorbed into SSJ. 

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    • Yeah, I even state that SS2 would be 200x FTL.

      So Post-SSG SS Goku is 200x FTL at maximum lowball but it was calculated that Goku grew at least 2x stronger after he absorbed SSG, making Post-SSG SS Goku 400x FTL at max lowball and Post-SSG Base Goku 8x (400 / 50 = 8).

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    • What's going on with this whole Post SSG only being hundreds of times FTL? He should still scale to the MFTL+ calc for Beerus. 

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    • PFM18 is asking what would scale Goku to MFTL+ outside of that calculation.

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    • Beerus uses more power against SSG Goku and is thus using more speed than when he was just flying to go get some food. Goku absorbs that power into his Super Saiyan and it then scales to SSG. His base would be 40x slower going by the wiki's accepted multiplier, which would still make him MFTL+. Aside from that, there is nothing else. 

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      I have already discussed this nonsense about Base Goku post SSG>BoG SSG Goku at length several times now. All that people can come up with is apparently lying about dialogue and context. 

      Would you let it go, my dude? Sometimes I think I'm right and everybody else is just an idiot for disagreeing with me, even if they give reasons but my interpretation just won't accept those reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right and they're wrong. Even if very slight, there might be chances that maybe, just maybe, the fault is somewhere within my own interpretation and not anybody else's. Maybe I'm in the wrong and need to rethink from another angle and not keep bringing it up everytime and throw shade like a salty dude.

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    • I’m also tired of that logic. Somebody disagreeing with you and maybe getting a point wrong/screwing up by accident doesn’t mean they’re lying. You could also be wrong because opinions aren’t facts.

      I should know, because I mess up all the time, yet most people on here don’t call me a liar because they’re rational people who know others can make mistakes.

      PFM18, just stop treating everything you say like it’s gospel, no offence.

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    • Most people promoted you to discussion mod boi...you don't mess up all the time.

      And did you see that beautiful looking explosion scene where Piccolo blew up the moon in DBK? Totally disproves that it was just vaporized...because the game is canon ovo

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    • Thanks.

      What ever happened to that thread, by the way? I just sort of took my hand off it and the whole thing was covered by the steam from that moon Piccolo totally vaporised.

      By the way, I was thinking of making another thread about downgrading Roshi’s calc based on the manga, and King Piccolo’s City-bust.

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    • What are you talking about ? are people trying to say Piccolo just 'core busted' the moon or whatever ?

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    • No. It was a thread I made with a different calc to the one used on the profiles.

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      PFM18 wrote:

      -snip-

      See now that, makes perfect sense. But that's not what you said
      "Post-SSG SS Goku is as strong as he was with SSG, so with my scaling (SSG = SS2), a hyper lowballed Base Goku would be at least 4x FTL.

      However, it has been calculated that Goku (after absorbing SSG) became at least twice as powerful, meaning Base Goku would actually be at least 8x FTL."

      He meant this part "Goku (after absorbing SSG)", was taking into account the first part of the post, that SSG was only absorbed into SSJ. 

      Okay my bad.  I think I misinterpreted it then. 

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    • ByAsura wrote:
      No. It was a thread I made with a different calc to the one used on the profiles.

      Which was based on vaporizing the moon since that damn Akira Toriyama never really drew the moon getting blown to bits like in every other media. I still think that the explosion he represented by the white light and loud sound effects in the manga would more accurately result in something getting blown to bits, but ByAsura thinks otherwise. So there's your context @Dragomer

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    • ByAsura wrote:
      I’m also tired of that logic. Somebody disagreeing with you and maybe getting a point wrong/screwing up by accident doesn’t mean they’re lying. You could also be wrong because opinions aren’t facts.

      I should know, because I mess up all the time, yet most people on here don’t call me a liar because they’re rational people who know others can make mistakes.

      PFM18, just stop treating everything you say like it’s gospel, no offence.

      I never called anybody a liar other than AKM Sama, who literally lied about the dialogue, given that this was a pretty lengthy exchange, I find it hard to believe he didn't ever think to double check the dialogue at any point, especially since he well into detail about what he claimed the dialogue to be. so he's a liar. And I'm only treating the factual as the dialogue, I'm not claiming my opinion to be any more, in and of itself than anybody else. 

       Would you let it go, my dude? Sometimes I think I'm right and everybody else is just an idiot for disagreeing with me, even if they give reasons but my interpretation just won't accept those reasons. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right and they're wrong. Even if very slight, there might be chances that maybe, just maybe, the fault is somewhere within my own interpretation and not anybody else's. Maybe I'm in the wrong and need to rethink from another angle and not keep bringing it up everytime and throw shade like a salty dude.  

      Your "reasons" were based on dialogue that either does not exist or didn't happen in the order you claim it did. And what other angle? I've been very consistent, never changed my angle. 

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    • Ah shit, here we go again

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    • Way to ignore the other half of my entire point, or AKM’s whole point about interpretation. I wasn’t really referring to you, by the way, just people who do that in general.

      You do seem to be treating your opinion as fact elsewhere. It’s not just here.

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    • @PFM At this point I don't even remember which specific dialogue or line you are talking about. Either you misunderstood what I said or I made an error while saying it but I sure as hell didn't "lie". And I'm not gonna turn this discussion thread into another to and fro so if you still wanna reply to this, do it on my wall.

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    • I mean, Toriyama mostly represent stuff that got blown up as being vaporized anyway so it doesn't change much either way.

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    • So how did Goku came back after being vaporised by U7 Spirit Bomb

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    • he pressed respawn

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    • Shubham Sonsurkar wrote: So how did Goku came back after being vaporised by U7 Spirit Bomb

      He wasn’t vaporized, although that scene is a mystery.

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    • yeah like even Grand Priest considered him Dead

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    • I mean, Broly and Gogeta outright broke reality during their fight and went into some kind of interdimensional space, wouldn't surprise me if Goku's Spirit Bomb, when reflected back at him and interacting with his pure heart/soul, did something similar, and Goku Vice Shouted himself back or something.

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    • @Orc that's actually pretty interesting

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    • It would be cool if the characters ended up breaking reality and ending somewhere else in another dimensional space again and found something there. Maybe a prisoner who was banished or an eldritch monster to show why breaking reality is a bad thing.

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    • Shubham Sonsurkar wrote:
      So how did Goku came back after being vaporised by U7 Spirit Bomb

      He dodged the omnidirectional blast at the centre of the explosion.

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    • But no one was able to sense Goku's ki even Grand Priest considered him Dead

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    • Hence, why I like my explanation the best.

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    • do you guys know obd also gave resistant to transmutation to gogeta because just like vegeto he is also a fusion of same beings and he is stronger than vegeto who was conscious when he turned to candy

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    • Everyone should have said resistance if we are honest instead of insisting that 'muh standards of the site' as if any franchise ever gives a shit about a wiki's guideline, otherwise you have Buu candy beam soloing everyone except Vegito for no reason.

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    • It's pretty clear DB does have some hax that are influenced by AP where others aren't. 

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    • Mechikabura perfect state render website by maxiuchiha22 ddo5x2t-pre
      We should use this image for Mechikabura's new form
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    • HrishikeshM wrote: do you guys know obd also gave resistant to transmutation to gogeta because just like vegeto he is also a fusion of same beings and he is stronger than vegeto who was conscious when he turned to candy

      We aren't OBD. They also have 1-A YHVH which means Shin Megami Tensei tops at Tier 0 there. Here, we're never, ever, accepting such non-sense such as 1-A SMT.

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    • But instead we accept a lot of other nonsense.

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    • Modders found character models for God Vegeta, Blue Vegeta, Whis and Beerus inside DBZK's files. The two expansions will most likely be BoG and RoF, and we'll find out exactly when and how Vegeta achieved God.

      83927454 2658156280906637 6727255460962893824 o
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    • That's hot

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    • So BoG and RoF DLC incoming.

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    • Wait, if they change something in DBS, will it effect the anime or the manga?!?! ._.

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    • Yes.

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    • ^Correct response

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    • Technicaly, they would probably only following Toriyama's script like both the manga and anime did or just use the anime with a few added notes.

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote: Wait, if they change something in DBS, will it effect the anime or the manga?!?! ._.

      Nothing this games changes affects the canon, so no.

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    • INB4 someone look into it and Toriyama wrote more stuff for Kakarot than for DBS.

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    • I wouldn't be surprised.

      From the look of it Toriyama seems invovled heavily in Kakarot and after spending 30 min or so reading the Dragon Ball files they go deep into the world lore.

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:
      Wait, if they change something in DBS, will it effect the anime or the manga?!?! ._.

      no. 

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote:
      Modders found character models for God Vegeta, Blue Vegeta, Whis and Beerus inside DBZK's files. The two expansions will most likely be BoG and RoF, and we'll find out exactly when and how Vegeta achieved God.
      83927454 2658156280906637 6727255460962893824 o

      Is there a chance we could get the rest of Super?

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    • @PFM18 I think that'll probably happen in the next game. Apparently this game is already a big deal and sold more than FighterZ in their first week

      It was heavily hinted that Xenoverse 3 is in the works in an interview, so Xenoverse 3 would still be released before a new supposed Kakarot 2

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    • PFM18 wrote:

      ArgosaxDespair wrote:
      Modders found character models for God Vegeta, Blue Vegeta, Whis and Beerus inside DBZK's files. The two expansions will most likely be BoG and RoF, and we'll find out exactly when and how Vegeta achieved God.
      83927454 2658156280906637 6727255460962893824 o

      Is there a chance we could get the rest of Super?

      Unlikely. BoG and RoF are still DBZ movies so it's make sense for them to be in the game but everything past that is exclusively DBS territory.

      Maybe in a sequel.

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    • Man, a complete Tournament of Power arc in an improved version of Kakarot's gameplay style would be great.

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote: @PFM18 I think that'll probably happen in the next game. Apparently this game is already a big deal and sold more than FighterZ in their first week

      It was heavily hinted that Xenoverse 3 is in the works in an interview, so Xenoverse 3 would still be released before a new supposed Kakarot 2

      I mean I have to wonder if Super without BoG and RoF really has enough material to make a sequel out of. Hopefully we get more dbs material in the anime between now and then when this would possibly come out, but obviously the prospects for the dbs anime look poor.

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    • Ionliosite wrote:

      We aren't OBD. They also have 1-A YHVH which means Shin Megami Tensei tops at Tier 0 there. Here, we're never, ever, accepting such non-sense such as 1-A SMT.

      i dont even care about the verses you mentioned they dont even matter.....just because they have flaws in rating some other franchise does not mean they are flawed in everything and cannot rate some other franchise correctly

      even this wiki has flaws in rating many shows and characters no one is safe

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    • Bandai released an official Dragon Ball Quiz. 3 challenges and 20 questions each. If the hashtag #KakarotQuiz surpasses 59,000 tweets, they'll release a Freeza saga video or some shit like that.

      Quiz: https://dbzk-quizchallenge.bn-ent.net/

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    • HrishikeshM wrote:

      Ionliosite wrote:

      We aren't OBD. They also have 1-A YHVH which means Shin Megami Tensei tops at Tier 0 there. Here, we're never, ever, accepting such non-sense such as 1-A SMT.

      i dont even care about the verses you mentioned they dont even matter.....just because they have flaws in rating some other franchise does not mean they are flawed in everything and cannot rate some other franchise correctly

      even this wiki has flaws in rating many shows and characters no one is safe

      I actually agree there. That's why I said that just because OBD does it, doesn't mean we should. Everyone can make mistakes, that's human after all.

      For the record, I only mentioned 1 verse on that post, Shin Megami Tensei

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote: Bandai released an official Dragon Ball Quiz. 3 challenges and 20 questions each. If the hashtag #KakarotQuiz surpasses 59,000 tweets, they'll release a Freeza saga video or some shit like that.

      Quiz: https://dbzk-quizchallenge.bn-ent.net/

      It's in Japanese. I had google translate to help but I still didn't understand 3-4 questions and answered randomly.

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    • That's weird, It's in English here

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    • It's in English for me too

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    • It's normal for me too.

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    • So, how strong are Mira and Towa in DBZ Kakarot

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    • Here's the fight: https://youtu.be/RwbmU665T30

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    • Shubham Sonsurkar wrote: So, how strong are Mira and Towa in DBZ Kakarot

      About 20+ levels above Kid Buu (lvl 77) at lvl 100 and given how the game scales levels I'd say they are somewhere at Solar System lvl or maybe higher

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    • BTW game is fun as hell, been taking my time between sagas just relaxing with the side activities.

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    • Card7
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    • They inflated this quiz with a lot of easy-to-forget stuff, I could barely remember these things (got two wrong answers)

      What result did you guys get?

      Card8
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    • One of the questions was a cheat, though.

      Mr. Satan won both the 24th and 25th!!

      Got it perfect, surprisingly enough

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    • ArgosaxDespair wrote: They inflated this quiz with a lot of easy-to-forget stuff, I could barely remember these things (got two wrong answers)

      What result did you guys get?

      Card8

      The quiz is meant to be taken after DBZ Kakarot I think.

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    • Master Xar wrote: BTW game is fun as hell, been taking my time between sagas just relaxing with the side activities.

      Yeah. Going around, doing side mission, farming for a new skills and searching for nods and lore is a lot of fun.

      I just finished namke saga and I am 15 hours in.

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    • VbSLgijnz
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    • Yamcha actually fights competently for once in the new chapter

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    • Kek no 2uper even in 2020.

      I really wish Dragon Ball "in anime form at least" would just end after Toriayama retires tho.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:
      Kek no 2uper even in 2020.

      I really wish Dragon Ball "in anime form at least" would just end after Toriayama retires tho.

      Otherway around for me, i want it to end in manga form after Toriyama retire and continue with anime and video games so Toyotaro's chance of fucking everything up get really diminished.

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    • Why does so many people hate Toyotarou again?

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    • Well, hes doing a terrible job. 90% of the fan base have not been happy with his work since late Zamasu arc.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:
      Why does so many people hate Toyotarou again?

      He keep tracing panels from the original manga, his fight scenes look like screenshots of the fight rather than the actual fight, he try to use fucking fandom memes in the actual work (like Krillin being a coward that can do nothing but hides or die to the point that's even how Goku, the dude who see Krillin as his best friend no matter what, see him despite Goku always encouraging Krillin in OG DB and even DBZ), his characterisation sucks (Goku is a parody of his TFS self at times, with Toyotaro even having Goku and Roshi say he is a shit student who never learned what his masters tried to tell him, 18 has no personality at all beyond 'cold and wants money' gags and seem to hate her husband which is NOT how it's supposed to be, Vegeta being presented as a good dad) and he put way too much focus on Vegeta, especialy in the Moro arc where Goku has basicaly doine jackshit except being a cheerleader and went nowhere with his training while Vegeta is doing better than Goku ever did according to the Yardrat, he keep overusing the 'Buu is sleeping' shit, Krillin, Piccolo and Gohan basicaly showed up just to be useless etc.

      There was also the whole TOP disaster, with none of the univers having a last stand, Kale just eliminating like 4 univers in 3 panels and Kefla vs Gohan being an offscreen fight that doesn't even make sense given that Kale alone took out most participant, which is clearly not shown to be something Gohan could have done and the whole UI Roshi shit, the same Roshi who in the previous arc couldn't even see Frost fighting because it was too fast but here he dodge Jiren like it's nothing.

      And the list goes on and on.

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    • Although Toei, Toyotaro and Toriyama are all guilty of bad writing with some of modern Dragon Ball's stories. I am quite worried about the future of Dragon Ball series

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    • To be fair with Kale mass knock out, that's how it usually goes when fodder is against a God Tier in DB, it's weird Jiren didn't even try it.

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    • So Vegeta is just supposed to be perpetually a shitty dad?

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    • Lollipop The King wrote:
      So Vegeta is just supposed to be perpetually a shitty dad?

      No but you're not supposed to portray it as if he always had been a good dad or doesn't have problems with even being around since he litteraly never does anything with Trunks and hadn't cared enough to hug before the Buu saga, which is barely 3 month before the start of super.

      With Toyotaro we get Vegeta, the guy who left baby Trunks and Bulma to die without giving a shit calling Goku a bad father.

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    • You are being too harsh on the man IMO.

      Personally I think Toyotaro has been doing great job recently with the Moro arc

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:
      You are being too harsh on the man IMO.

      Personally I think Toyotaro has been doing great job recently with the Moro arc

      Personaly the Moro arc is the one i dislike most, except maybe the TOP, it's litteraly everything wrong with DB fanmanga but into an official DB product.

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    • Weird. Majority of the fans has been praising the Moro arc recently but it seems you don't even want to give poor Toyotarou a chance.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:
      Weird. Majority of the fans has been praising the Moro arc recently but it seems you don't even want to give poor Toyotarou a chance.

      I gave him a chance until the TOP so no, i did give him a chance, not my fault if he fucked it up and keep fucking it up, especialy with all the tracing he does.

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    • It's nonsensical for Yamcha and Chaotzu to be useful at all by this point, it reminds me of Toyo's garbage with Roshi dodging Jiren. 

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    • ...So it makes more sense for the Galactic Patrol, an org who couldn't even deal with first form Freeza (whom Yamcha should be around Namek Saga first form Freeza AT LEAST), to have a bunch of criminals locked up that so surpass that level as to make Yamcha completely useless?

      It actually makes less sense that any of them would be stronger than Yamcha. These guys are elite-level Freeza Force goons at best save for Seven-Three, and Yamcha has been >Ginyu-level as a lowball since the Android Saga

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    • I fully agree with Dragomer, the Galatic Patrol Prisoner Saga was what totally destroyed my hopes in Toyotaro. Sure, his work on the Future Trunks and Universal Survival Sagas hadn't been stellar, but this saga is literally just a fanfic glorified to the level of official material.

      Also, doesn't Super start 6 years after Majin Boo's defeat? Pan was 4 at the end of Z, and it's been 10 years between Majin Boo's defeat and that epilogue.

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    • Ionliosite wrote: I fully agree with Dragomer, the Galatic Patrol Prisoner Saga was what totally destroyed my hopes in Toyotaro. Sure, his work on the Future Trunks and Universal Survival Sagas hadn't been stellar, but this saga is literally just a fanfic glorified to the level of official material.

      Also, doesn't Super start 6 years after Majin Boo's defeat? Pan was 4 at the end of Z, and it's been 10 years between Majin Boo's defeat and that epilogue.

      I don't remember the full timeline but the narration at the start of DBS say it has been 3 or 6 month

      Also the galactic patrol couldn't even deal with an adult saiyan according to Jaco.

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    • Super already retconned the End of Z, I'm pretty sure they'll end it their own way now whenever they get to that point.

      Remember, guys, Toriyama is writing the main story points of this stuff. He can change whatever he wants.

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    • The Moro arc has pretty awful pacing and its villain, Moro, hasn't impressed me in the slightest thus far. His 'hax' is incredibly boring and offers nothing to the table. Merus is a character I just don't understand or like, being a 'trainee Angel' that just happened to be around to train Goku and is also magically a far more effective teacher than Whis ever was (seriously, Toyotaro shits on Whis constantly. Vegeta dismisses him publically, Roshi teaches Goku to go UIS the first time and Merus, his baby brother, is who teaches Goku to go UIS at will). Merus seriously comes off as a Gary Stu at times.

      He chose to generically rehash the Frieza saga by having Moro go to Namek and commit genocide (how many times has Namek been genocided in the franchise now?) just for his super special wish to be...releasing a bunch of fodders from prison (why couldn't he do that himself?) and then stupidly spares Goku and Vegeta multiple times.

      The only new character that is even remotely interesting or cool is Seven-Three, due to his abilities. All of the other characters are painfully dull and, even then, all of them are based on another character that Toriyama designed...displaying zero creativity on Toyo's part.

      Overall, the only parts I like would be Galactic Patrol, Spirit Control and the Gohan/Piccolo vs Seven-Three fight. Everything else is just inconsistent, bland or rehashed.

      Manga-wise it roughly goes:

      Black > Universe 6 > Beerus > Moro > Universe Survival

      Whereas anime-wise I would rate it as:

      Universe Survival > Black > Universe 6 > Beerus >> Frieza

      I hope he manages to make up for my issues by the end of this arc, but this pacing is seriously horrendous.

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      I fully agree with Dragomer, the Galatic Patrol Prisoner Saga was what totally destroyed my hopes in Toyotaro. Sure, his work on the Future Trunks and Universal Survival Sagas hadn't been stellar, but this saga is literally just a fanfic glorified to the level of official material.

      Also, doesn't Super start 6 years after Majin Boo's defeat? Pan was 4 at the end of Z, and it's been 10 years between Majin Boo's defeat and that epilogue.

      there's a 6 month timeskip to Satan giving Goku the 100M zeni after everyone had forgotten about Buu, and there is a 4 year timeskip after that, and Pan is in the whom during this, which aligns with her being 4 at EoZ, but she should be turning 5 pretty soon. 

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    • Wow. You guys really don't like Toyotaro. Like, on a scale of 1 to 10, it's an 11.

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    • I am a 5. I am neutral. I got say though I expected better especially for the tournament of power where I think the anime was way better there.

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    • I like the Yamcha spotlight

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:

      Super already retconned the End of Z

      How Super retconned the end of Z?

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    • I guess the potara time limit

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    • I like Toyotaro. Only stupid idea of his was Dyspo and the Potara retcon, IMO. As for retconning the end of Z, Pan has been born far too early. She's going to be nearly 10 by the end of Z at this rate.

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      I like Toyotaro. Only stupid idea of his was Dyspo and the Potara retcon, IMO.

      As for retconning the end of Z, Pan has been born far too early. She's going to be nearly 10 by the end of Z at this rate.

      no she wasnt. she is excactly at the time she was stated to be born before. the heck you even talking about?

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    • Seeing as the anime isn't around the corner and maybe won't even adapt this arc, you guys want to create profiles for Merus and that copy villain?

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    • Don't care about Merus but I wanted a 7-3 profile for a whil now.

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    • Long ass comment ahead, but keep in mind that Toyotaro made me do it

      What tier would Chou Gohan and Chou Piccolo be?

      Gohan easily defeated Seven-Three before the latter used Moro's power. We know that Seven-Three (after absorbing Piccolo's power) had a slight edge over Piccolo, but what tier would Chou Piccolo be? He could harm Seven-Three too, which would mean that he and Gohan wouldn't be too far apart. After the two-month time skip, the situation changed a bit: Gohan and Piccolo got stronger, and they're both explicitly comparable to each other.

      We know that Gohan was equal to Kefla in the ToP, but it's kinda hard to scale Kefla. Vados said that due to Caulibae and Kale being severely weakened when they merged, Kefla only had Kale's power and Caulifla's fighting skill, but it's hard to scale Kale to anyone. She stomped Freeza, but Freeza stated that if he fought her seriously, he would've been able to defeat her, so I guess this could make her somewhat comparable to SSJB Goku, but her getting stomped by base Goku level characters due to "lack of control" makes it even harder to measure, after all, why would Freeza need to go serious in his Golden Form to beat someone who got beaten by the people that failed miserable to beat base Goku? I might be crazy because I don't remember much of the manga, but I remember discussing this issue before

      Do you guys remember some statements or feats that could put Piccolo in the 4-B area or comparisons between Gohan and Goku/Vegeta since Piccolo scales to Gohan?

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    • Kale (and thus Kale) is undoubtedly into the 3-B, she almost knocked both Toppo and Freeza off, but her terrible skills as a Berserker made her power drop quickly (Toyo puts A LOT more of enphasis of technique and attacks, more than Toriyama ever did)

      7-11 is a case of a glass cannon, but his hax allows him to copy power wiith the same AP, Already before he was wrecked by Gohan, but survived due to Moro's power (and now it seems 17 is going to end his career.

      I'd say At Least High 4-C (could contend with Piccolo), 3-B by power copying

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    • 7-3 never fought using his power. Even back when he solo'ed Piccolo he did it after he stole his power and then he beat Gohan with Moro's power. #17 will likely put an end to him but we will see.

      Can't they frankly let #18 and #17 take care of Moro? He's little trick doesn't work against them.

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    • We will see an excuse for such not being possible (EXAMPLE: Moro grew too powerful)

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    • Moro basicaly sucked Goku and Vegeta dry multiple time, Moro should kill both of them with a slap if we are logical.

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    • I mean, Moro sucked both Goku and Vegeta "this sounds wrong" in their first fight and Vegeta still said theu could wipe the floor with him one on one.

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    • Petition to change Moro to Female Moro

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    • It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.

      You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.

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    • Dude that came out of no where. Did you come off from some hot debate or something?

      Yeah, Vegeta is a maniac who didn't care about his race of even his freaking parent. Frieza had nothing to do with it he just used him a his loyal dog to do his dirty jobs.

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    • I was reading a fanmanga and the author note was the author bitching about how canon was ruined by the DB minus thing were Vegeta just ignore the order and that 'it wasn't true' (whatever the fuck that means when talking about the goddamn canon version) so i was annoyed.

      And since i was reading that fanmanga because of something i saw on this site, i felt appropriate to bitch about it here.

      For all his flaws, Toyotaro was clearly not the worst DB fanmanga artist they could have chosen.

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    • IMO the best DB fanmanga artist is Dragon Garow Lee.

      Both Dragonball Sai AND The Case of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha have given me the most 'Dragonball but with a twist' feeling

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    • The Yamcha manga was a great read tbh.

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    • Yamcha was lit af

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      IMO the best DB fanmanga artist is Dragon Garow Lee.

      Both Dragonball Sai AND The Case of Being Reincarnated as Yamcha have given me the most 'Dragonball but with a twist' feeling

      I pretty much agree, the one who made DB SD make pretty good gags though.

      The Yamcha Isekai was really good, would be funny to have a 'King Cold Isekai' with the MC having to raise Freezer.

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    • When the fusion time runs out in the middle of the fight

      When the fusion time runs out in the middle of the fight

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    • Dragomer wrote:
      It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.

      You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.

      Freeza only kept Vegeta alive for two reasons. A) he could get some use and entertainment out of him, and B) he believed that he could easily kill him at any point in time, because most of the Freeza Force pre-Namek seem to believe that power levels are static (which makes me wonder how any of them got any power to begin with, they can't all be mutants like Freeza).

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    • A Stoned Orc wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:
      It's annoying how people are still in denial about the fact that Vegeta was and would have been a genocidial maniac even without Freezer and didn't give a shit about his father nor his planet.

      You show them scans of Vegeta ignoring the call to go back to planete Vegeta and they still screech that Freezer spared him on purpose and was like his evil mentor or some shit when it's made clear Freezer didn't give a shit.

      Freeza only kept Vegeta alive for two reasons. A) he could get some use and entertainment out of him, and B) he believed that he could easily kill him at any point in time, because most of the Freeza Force pre-Namek seem to believe that power levels are static (which makes me wonder how any of them got any power to begin with, they can't all be mutants like Freeza).

      They seem to account for growing up and military training but they don't believe that anyone can jump beyond their prediction or something like that, to be fair, Vegeta only got stronger due to a biological quirk back then so he didn't disprove their way fo thinking unlike Goku.

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    • I think it's kind of implied that the Frieza Force constantly sends their men on missions, so there isn't much time to train or progress in-between their work. Elites like Zarbon and Dodoria have no real impetus to grow stronger, due to being comfortable in their positions among the Top 10 in the entire universe. You also have to note that Saiyans were considered the most elite and powerful warriors in the universe, so judging all of the other races in Frieza's army based on them is a tad ridiculous.

      Hell, Goku, Vegeta and their kids are all 0.0001% of the Saiyan race, who are already considered the 1% of warriors in the universe so they are basically massive outliers.

      The issue is why Vegeta didn't seem to grow much stronger over the course of his work in the Frieza Force. You can argue Nappa and Raditz just lacked the potential of Goku and Vegeta's lineages, but why wouldn't Vegeta get stronger from Zenkai boosting?

      Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.

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    • I think it was stated Vegeta surpassed his dad as a child.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote: Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.

      Makes sense to me.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      I think it's kind of implied that the Frieza Force constantly sends their men on missions, so there isn't much time to train or progress in-between their work. Elites like Zarbon and Dodoria have no real impetus to grow stronger, due to being comfortable in their positions among the Top 10 in the entire universe. You also have to note that Saiyans were considered the most elite and powerful warriors in the universe, so judging all of the other races in Frieza's army based on them is a tad ridiculous.

      Hell, Goku, Vegeta and their kids are all 0.0001% of the Saiyan race, who are already considered the 1% of warriors in the universe so they are basically massive outliers.

      The issue is why Vegeta didn't seem to grow much stronger over the course of his work in the Frieza Force. You can argue Nappa and Raditz just lacked the potential of Goku and Vegeta's lineages, but why wouldn't Vegeta get stronger from Zenkai boosting?

      Considering that Vegeta's loss on Earth made him capable of stomping Cui and defeating Dodoria, I think the implication is that Vegeta just never lost a fight or had a rival to improve against. He was likely just running around bullying much weaker fighters his entire life.

      Yeah I don't think that he truly lost a fight until he fought Goku, he more or less was dominating weak fighters up until his he fought Goku from my understanding. 

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    • I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.

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    • discuss and chill here

      vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3970413

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    • Dragomer wrote: I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.

      Isn't this common sense tho? Why would Vegeta take on Freiza or the Ginyu forces if he knew he had no chance of coming out alive? Even Goku knows when to pull back.

      Imo what Vegeta lacked was hard battles that put his life on the line, not fighting people who can 2 shot him.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: I mean, it's pretty much said Vegeta only fought weaker people and avoided stronger people like the Ginyu force, that's litteraly what does during the namek saga.

      Isn't this common sense tho? Why would Vegeta take on Freiza or the Ginyu forces if he knew he had no chance of coming out alive? Even Goku knows when to pull back.

      Imo what Vegeta lacked was hard battles that put his life on the line, not fighting people who can 2 shot him.

      Avoiding Freezer is common sense but the Ginyu, Dodoria or Zarbon was simply 'i never take on someone without having a massive power advantage'.

      I doubt Guldo could one shot Vegeta.

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    • About the 'furry drug' in DB Kakarot, Oolong mention that he is a full blooded beastman so not all furries were due to the drug, it's just that it was a fad for a while and now it's over so there aren't as much around but actual beastman still exist and are still around.

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    • So I got a question. Goku supposedly got stronger after UIO1. He went from fighting SSJ2 Caulifla as a SSJ2 to fighting her in base. This implies he got 50-100x stronger than before, would this mean UIO2 is that much stronger than UIO1?

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    • Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

      It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.

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    • SS Cabba is as strong as SS Vegeta in the Universe 6 arc but:

      • Base Black scales to SS2 Goku and is stated to be holding back
      • Base Black stomps SSB Vegeta
      • Post-HBTC SSB Vegeta thrashed a much stronger SSR Black

      Assuming this was purely consistent and Black was in base form, this means Vegeta grew at least over 5,000x more powerful after training in the Time Chamber. Even if we assume Black was using SSG's power in base form (Beyond God from the RoF film) that would still come to Vegeta easily becoming over 50x more powerful since he fought Cabba.

      We have no reason to think Caulifa is massively stronger than Cabba, or for Cabba to have grown much stronger since he fought Vegeta. So Base Goku scaling to SS2 Caulifa is actually pretty reasonable.

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    • That doesn't mean he got 100 times stronger.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote: Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

      It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.

      Base Goku was blatantly as strong as her no amount of skill can close that gap just look at Broly. Even then Base Goku being stronger than her SSJ2 state at the beginning of the tournament makes sense IMO. Especially since Base Vegeta one shot Monna despite Cabba needing SSJ2 to overpower her.

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    • As for UIS scaling:

      • A heavily weakened Post-UIS Goku Blue managed to briefly pressure SS Kefla, who is stated to have power equivalent to the U7 Spirit Bomb (which should scale above Pre-UIS KKX20 Goku)
      • Post-UIS KK Goku Blue managed to hurt SS Kefla significantly 
      • Vados believes a full power SSB Goku would be difficult for SS Kefla to defeat

      Overall, Post-UIS1 Goku Blue seems to be about 20x more powerful than before.

      • Post-UIS2 Goku Blue managed to push Jiren harder than UIS1 Goku could

      UIS is considered to be 'at least' 40x Blue, on the wiki. So Post-UIS2 Goku is at least twice as powerful as before, although it's worth noting that Goku's stamina had also recovered much more by this time.

      Given the pattern above, it isn't wrong to claim Goku likely grew multiple times stronger after UIS3 and UI but either:

      • A) UIS is far more powerful than a 40x boost (Post-UIS1 Goku Blue scales to Pre-UIS1 KKX20 Goku whereas Post-UIS2 Goku Blue would only be twice as powerful if UIS = 40x Blue)
      • B) UIS gives diminishing power boosts after UIS1

      So it's overall up to debate regarding UIS scaling and boosts.

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:

      ZERO7772 wrote: Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

      It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.

      Base Goku was blatantly as strong as her no amount of skill can close that gap just look at Broly. Even then Base Goku being stronger than her SSJ2 state at the beginning of the tournament makes sense IMO. Especially since Base Vegeta one shot Monna despite Cabba needing SSJ2 to overpower her.

      It just to show that Cabba is a fodder and she-Goku is better tham him. Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.

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    • Cabba is only slightly weaker than her tho.

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    • 'Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger everytime he sneezes

      Look at the namek saga .....Yeah, sure.

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    • Jumping from 90,000 to 3,000,000 in one fight STONKS

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    • Dragomer wrote: 'Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger everytime he sneezes

      Look at the namek saga .....Yeah, sure.

      I-It's just a PIS I swear....

      Real talk, even that wasn't a 100x time boost it was closer to 30 times when Zenkai was THE sh!t.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: 'Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger everytime he sneezes

      Look at the namek saga .....Yeah, sure.

      I-It's just a PIS I swear....

      Real talk, even that wasn't a 100x time boost it was closer to 30 times when Zenkai was THE sh!t.

      8000 to 3 million in just a bit of gravity work out and a fight, it's a 375 time boost and the 33 time boost was from getting his ass kicked once, the bulk of the increase was training and it's not like Goku didn't get his shit kicked in a lot in DBS, hell Black exploit it to even more bulshit height.

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    • Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.

      Yeah, we know thats just broly.



      But goku does get ridiculous zenkais consistently.

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    • So? You just mixed 6 days of training under 100x gravity and Goku getting almost killed and compared it to "Goku sneeze and get 100 times stronger"

      Dragon balls power ups in genreal are inconsistent as hell with Vegeta getting a 6,000 boost from his first and second zenkai but magically getting a 500,000 boost from his third one. Same apply to goku.

      I don't disagree with you that Goku get a lot of power-ups in most stupid ways and him getting 100 times stronger isn't out of the image, but nowadays every time a saiyan gets roughed up a little people start screaming "muh 5,000 times zenkai boost" which annoys me tbh.

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    • Ovrhide wrote:
      Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.
      Yeah, we know thats just broly.



      But goku does get ridiculous zenkais consistently.

      And DBS introduced 'limit breaking', which are Zenkai on steroid and without the need to be healed.

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    • He sorta stopped getting Zenkais after that big one.

      Does Kakarot explain why they stopped getting Zenkais?

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    • BlastX wrote:
      He sorta stopped getting Zenkais after that big one.

      Does Kakarot explain why they stopped getting Zenkais?

      They never stopped having Zenkai, ever, we just stopped getting power level numbers so we don't know the details.

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    • Pretty sure the DBS manga mentioned that they stopped getting zenkais long ago.

      Of course, because in the anime everything is on steroid and taken up to 11 no such concept exist

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    • IIRC the only kind of explanation was given by Future Trunks in the manga. He said that since Goku and Vegeta were always training to break limits even when they were already at their limits, they couldn't do it naturally anymore via healing.

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    • Basically "limit-breaking" concept replaced the Zenkai then.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:
      Pretty sure the DBS manga mentioned that they stopped getting zenkais long ago.

      Of course, because in the anime everything is on steroid and taken up to 11 no such concept exist

      Even the manga doesn't commit to it, they start getting zenkai by the next chapter, that's like when Vegeta had mentionned they were near their limit and it turned out to be bulshit.

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    • They are always getting zenkais, and they have hit no limits. That shit was thrown out a long time ago. Even the broly recap states how they got stronger from the encounter

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    • Meh, that revision is based on taking 'the universal seed' and it's concept way too directly rather than what it has shown, that's like trying to make a revision on HOTU Thanos just because the HOTU is called 'heart of the univers' and is used to creat one rather than look at what was accomplished with it.

      Also using Xeno characters when 99% of everything DBH was never released outside of Japan was a dumb idea to begin with.

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    • Dragomer wrote:

      Also using Xeno characters when 99% of everything DBH was never released outside of Japan was a dumb idea to begin with.

      Why is it a dumb idea? We literally have verse where everything important never came out of Japan, so I don't see the problem.

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    • Dies Irae and IWKB are both officially translated.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote: Dies Irae and IWKB are both officially translated.

      The whole High 1-A justification comes from Kajiri Kamui Kagura, the only part that explains Throne, Hadou Gods and Singularity in depth.

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    • So both Dies Irae and it spin off are "not important" now? Hadou gods, throne, Singularity were all expained in DI.

      KKK just added the Taiji BS and some exra lore.

      High 1-A is new on me lol.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      KKK just added the Taiji BS and some exra lore.

      "Some extra lore", which is where all the justification for High 1-A comes from in the first place.

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    • Couldn't care less about the tiring to be honest.

      I was talking purely about the universe lore.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote: Couldn't care less about the tiring to be honest.

      The thread that led to this discussion was talking about tiering, so it's totally the only thing that mattered for my argument.

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    • I didn't check the thread. But when you disregard everything in the verse as "not important" just because it didn't give you "muh high 1-A" it's rubs me off the wrong way.

      If you meant just the tier 1 stuff you should have specific it tbh. I mean, just think about it, Dies is the backbone for any Shinza title that was released down the line after it.

      Anyway, this is off topic as hell. People don't care much about DBH because they must better DB material that they can sink their teeth into in english.

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    • ZERO7772 wrote:

      But when you disregard everything in the verse as "not important" just because it didn't give you "muh high 1-A" it's rubs me off the wrong way.

      I didn't disregard everything in the verse as not important. Dies Irae doesn't give anything that really supports the High 1-A rating, and given we're talking about ratings, Kajiri Kamui Kagura is the important one here, since that's where the whole justification comes from. I think Dies Irae is important since it was the 2nd instalment on the trilogy (soon to be quadrilogy), but for tiering proposes, which what I was talking about due to the linked thread, Kajiri Kamui Kagura is the only important one to support the rating.

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    • Dragomer wrote:
      Ovrhide wrote:
      Doesn't mean Goku grow 100 times stronger every time he sneezes.
      Yeah, we know thats just broly.


      But goku does get ridiculous zenkais consistently.

      And DBS introduced 'limit breaking', which are Zenkai on steroid and without the need to be healed.

      Not really? It's jusst a euphemism to describe the goals that they have always had and have always strived for becoming, in addition to just being a generic verbatim to describe why a transformation is stronger than before. 

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:

      ZERO7772 wrote: Goku didn't grow 100 times stronger.....

      It's mentioned that he could fight her like that due to him being a superior martial artist not because he's stronger. Not to mention Caulifla catched up with him pretty quickly.

      Base Goku was blatantly as strong as her no amount of skill can close that gap just look at Broly. Even then Base Goku being stronger than her SSJ2 state at the beginning of the tournament makes sense IMO. Especially since Base Vegeta one shot Monna despite Cabba needing SSJ2 to overpower her.

      No, it was explicitly as a result of a gap in skill, the story goes out of it's way to make that very clear. 

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    • I do find it kind of funny that only now does Dragon Ball introduce the concept that skill can make up for a power gap (e.g. Roshi vs Ganos, Goku v. Caulifla) when before, fighters like Nappa are able to use brute force alone to dominate opponents who have years of martial arts training and battle experience under their belt, even though there's only a 9x gap between Nappa and the weakest Z Fighter at most, whereas Base Goku is at least 100x weaker than SS2Caulifla, if I understand it right.

      ...I mean, Nappa and Vegeta had experience, and I think there's some evidence of there being a Saiyan martial art style that Vegeta knows, at least,, but there's never any evidence of any undertaking any martial arts training like Goku, Krillin, etc.

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    • Nappa is a Sayian Elite they are trained from birth

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    • Skill should only help you win if the gap in power is really, REALLY small.

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