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  • The Calaca
    The Calaca closed this thread because:
    Answered
    17:34, February 8, 2020

    How come the god tiers of Fairy Tail (Acnologia, Zeref, Natsu, the Phoenix, the Five Dragon Gods, etc.) were all downgraded from High 6-A to being from High 6-C to Low 6-B, likely 6-A? I understand why Irene was downgraded because of the calculation of her Deus Sema making her a Large Island buster and August and Erza (when enhanced by emotions) were scaled accordingly, but the Phoenix's feat of destroying the planet's surface still stands, right? Wouldn't that keep the god tiers at High 6-A? 

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    • Read that whole thread and I frankly disagree with it but discussions about Fairy Tail's god tiers have been beaten to death already so I won't even bother.

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    • If you have solid evidence to why they shouldn't have been downgraded then you should make thread regardless of if it has been done to death. Just my thoughts.

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    • I probably will later on, but I really don't have the time or the patience to make that kind of thread right now, especially when I know what it'll erupt into.

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    • I get what you're saying.

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    • Because I'm a monster

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    • ^Truer Words have never been said

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    • Well now I'm here thinking: Okay, you're saying the Phoenix took 2-3 minutes to charge the attack and it used more than its own power. If that's the case, why are things like Goku's Spirit Bomb and Natsu's Seven Flames Dragon Mode, both being states (or an attack in the former's case) that took time to activate (especially the former, taking way longer than the Phoenix's 2-3 minutes) and used power beyond what the user was capable of producing. That reasoning is (unless I'm missing something here) pretty flawed, as time was never a factor used for power scaling and neither is going beyond one's normal capacity unless it is made CLEAR that it's an outlier, which isn't the case here as it's shown as something that the Phoenix is more than capable of pulling off whenever it wishes. The other thing I'm seeing is that the comparison to Zeref is flawed, but given that it was even shown in the movie that the Phoenix's attack was going to encompass the surface of the Fairy Tail planet, I simply don't see the reason for this downgrade. Additionally, just logically speaking, with Zeref being the most dangerous wizard known to man, wouldn't it make sense that the Magic Council of all people has a good understanding of Zeref's power (since he's a constant threat they need to be careful of). I know it's not concrete evidence, but just saying.

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    • I'm going to answer that pretty quickly by saying that the time the Phoenix needed is one of the most minor and irrelevant reasons why the scaling is flawed.

      Goku doesn't scale fully from the Spirit Bomb in any of his forms (only in UIO but that's another can of worms).

      >Whenever it wishes

      If it needs charge and absorb magic from the enviroment, it clearly can't do it whenever it wishes.

      The comparison with Zeref was made with the mountain busting feat and the old men didn't know the fully extent of the Phoenix's power. There's no evidence of them knowing of the surface wiping attack being scalable to Zeref at all.

      So they compared Zeref to the power of the feat performed and witnessed by them, aka the event where the two mountains disappeared, not the surface wiper attack.

      For the sake of highballing, they said that they have reasons to believe that's not its full power (and of course it wasn't), so they compared Zeref >>> the feat, but not to High 6-A energy.

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    • In that same conversation among the Council, they said they had reason to believe it was a fraction of the Phoenix's power (which was clearly true given what it was able to do), so that deduced full power was what they were comparing to Zeref.

      August's 6-A feat and this are pretty similar. They're both suicide attacks that require time to perform (I'm using the time argument because it's one of the three points you brought up in the original thread), and I'm using Goku's Spirit Bomb to show that drawing power from the environment or an outside source has never once been deemed as not being considerable for a character's scaling, since Goku was High 5-A, then 4-C with Spirit Bomb, which was your second argument in the initial thread. Saying "whenever it wishes" is a flawed statement, I'll admit that, but if it's forced into doing so, it definitely CAN do it, just like with August's suicide attack.

      They didn't compare Zeref to the feat, they compared Zeref to what they deduced to be the Phoenix's full power. Additionally, it's simply worth noting that statements like these typically aren't made for no reason. I know flowery language is a thing, but in most cases, these statements are made to address the degree of a threat the character and then are backed up later with feats (Example: Jiren was stated to be beyond a God of Destruction [statement of power that at first glance might just be flowery language], which was backed up by him easily demolishing SSB Goku (post-second UI Omen) and SSBE Vegeta [feat to back up the statement])

      PS: I swear I'm not doing only Dragon Ball references on purpose, it's just what I thought of off the top of my head

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    • Yes, an unknown fraction. They compared Zeref to an unknown amount of power, not to a High 6-A being.

      Does Goku scale to his Genki Dama? The only reason why he would (If he does) is that people have tanked the damn thing and he has overpowered such people or clashed with (Freeza and Vegeta respectively). The Phoenix was going to die from an attack that took 3 minutes with energy beyond its own. Not a similar case at all.

      "If it's forced into doing so..."

      Provide evidence to support this.

      The Phoenix' reason of existence is dying and resurrecting. It had no reasons to delay its purpose as the mages are irrelevant to his power.

      They didn't hinted the Phoenix' full power when they compared it with Zeref's. That's the main problem with the scaling.

      > The Phoenix did this

      > Oh, and it's more powerful

      > Yeah, just like Zeref

      No clear estimation of its power = No real reason to scale Zeref to it.

      The knowledge of the characters who make the statements is also important. The Council has reasons to believe the actual Phoenix was stronger than that. Nothing certain. Just assumptions.

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    • Goku doesn't scale to his Genki Dama AT ALL. That technique has always been shown as way above his own power.

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    • > They didn't hint at the Phoenix's full power when they compared it with Zeref.'s

      Pretty sure that was the entire purpose of that statement, to set up just how powerful the Phoenix was. Statements like that aren't just made for no reason. Despite you saying that the statement about the Phoenix being comparable to Zeref isn't valid since it's not a clear estimation, the Phoenix is at Likely High 6-C for that same reason: Being stated to be a rival in power to Zeref. Wouldn't this imply that the statement was accepted?

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    • I made him likely since he should at least scale to Base Zeref, but it's not confirmed, it's only likely and his Suicide Attack scales far higher, butr normal AP should scale to Base Zeref

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    • Why isn't the suicide attack High 6-A then at least? It was made clear it was going to destroy the Fairy Tail planet's surface, which was calculated to be a High 6-A feat?

      Also, on an unrelated note, shouldn't Natsu's Dragonification be upgraded for defeating Animus with the Dragon Cry (who is 6-A)? I'm confused on that as well.

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    • Dragon Cry itself is 6-A, but Animus never absorbed the full power into himself, he only aborbed a few energy blasts, most of Dragon Cry's Power was an external source of power that was concurrently being used to destroy Ishgar over time

      Animus himself doesn't scale to Dragon Cry, it's just a tool he can use

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    • I didn't touch the Phoenix's profile to begin with. I didn't know it was changed from High 6-A to High 6-C to begin with.

      The Phoenix should be High 6-A through ED and overtime, and such attack shouldn't scale to anything but its AP through it.

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    • I haven't seen Dragon Cry in a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Animus absorb the Dragon Cry's power? I need someone to catch me up on what happened.

      Also yeah, at the very least, the Phoenix should be High 6-A with the suicide attack, it's oddly listed as Unknown

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    • I just saw the movie thinking i was watching the Phoenix one but no he used the staff to unlock his true form, didn't really absorb it. And the staff itself is a joke, it was destroying the country overtime when Animus ate it.  Is this movie canon as well? 

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    • You're talking about Dragon Cry, not the Phoenix.

      In theory, Dragon Cry is also canon.

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    • In theory?

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    • Unlike Phoenix Priestess' events which were referred in 100YQ showing that the two original characters there are dead and Natsu knew them, Dragon Cry is considered canon because it takes place in a timeframe between arcs (but I didn't pay attention at this) and foreshadows a character's backstory (Acnologia).

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    • So compared to NNT's movie for example which meets similar conditions why is one accepted but the other isn't, especially with Nakaba's HEAVY involvement in the movie

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    • Actually forget what i said, forgot this takes place after Merlin returned Mel his powers and doesn't fit in any timeframe

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    • Another reason that the Dragon Cry movie is canon is that the 4th generation dragon slayers, which were introduced/shown in Dragon Cry, have been mentioned once again in 100 Year Quest, confirming the events in the movie as canon.

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    • Dragon Cry works perfectly in the story between Avatar and Alvarez arc, in the movie...

      We never see the guildhall, because at this point in time, it’s being reconstructed

      We never see Makarov, cause at this point, he is currently in Alvarez

      Natsu has his arm bandage on the entire time, because he wore it all the time till his battle with Zeref

      It just works so perfect

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    • FT Movies are canon, NNT movie isnt. This isnt the place to discuss NNT anyway.

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    • The question has been answered. Should I close this?

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    • Yes.

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