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  • Schnee One
    Schnee One closed this thread because:
    Going to hell. And grace passed
    17:56, December 2, 2019

    As Irene Belserion was defeated by Aokiji in a fight, I figured August should try avenging her


    Speed Equalized

    7 meters apart

    Location - SBA

    Low 6-B Keys used


    Aokiji - 8 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro, Jimboydejuan12, Strawboi, MonkeyDeeLuffy, Xulrev)

    August - 10 (AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105, Zackra1799, HenryWong122, ShadowGun45, Nerd1435, Beast Zero Gudako)

    Inconclusive - 0 ()

    Aokiji
    August Dark Form
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    • Wait, 10-A?

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    • I meant Low 6-B

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    • Kek. So August AOEs with fire as his first move, Reflector negs any non organic attacks from hitting him, he can hear Aokiji's thoughts and time slows to the extent of blitzing multiple comparable people at the same time. How does Aokiji respond

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    • The fire would be a non factor as Kuzan is getting a Resistance to fire and heat manipulation. What has August reflected exactly? Been a long time since I've read his fight. Hearing Kuzan's thoughts is nice but that's something that a basic application of Kenbun Haki offers and Kuzan is operating at a pretty high level, said ability grants users the ability to react to things faster than the user.

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    • Kuzan's CoO should be comparable to Katakuri's due he being able to avoid haki-based attacks just like him.

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    • You may want to get that heat resistance thread concluded before we move on, Fix was contesting it and it's not on the files for now

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    • Natsu has a resistance to fire and heat manip but he still can't neg August's fire.

      August scales to being better than Macbeth who reflects everything from cloth to metal to fire to ice to earth to energy to light to air etc etc while asleep so Kuzan needs to go cqc where August can just Crash him which works on elements so he can't even logia his way out of it.

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    • We treat heat as AP and Kuzan should be getting his from a Low 6-B+. Also Crash isn't an issue, it does work on elements but there's nothing stopping Kuzan reforming upon getting dismantled.

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    • it's also Powernull

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    • Doesn't August have speed acceleration that he spams?

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    • Pretty sure the power null wouldn't work on Kuzan as we don't equalize Devil Fruit abilities to Magic.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote: Pretty sure the power null wouldn't work on Kuzan as we don't equalize Devil Fruit abilities to Magic.

      Crash work om non-magic thing as well, like we seen gil using it on mountains

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    • Schnee One wrote: Doesn't August have speed acceleration that he spams?

      That's actually speed slow, he can slow down other.

      With mindreading, all august need to do is put him in sleep, search for some water source, and throw kuzan in it. I doubt that he can use his ice power when he is sleeping

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    • Mountains don't regenerate and what do they have to get powernulled to begin with?

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    • CoO works even if the user is sleeping. This should wake up Kuzan if August try something

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    • Bump

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    • Gonna bring the trophy to my boi Aokiji.

      August might have fire manipulation but that doesn’t mean it’s a prime advantage over Aokiji, who is made of ice so he won’t suffer from internal injuries. Plus his ice is so potent enough it matched Akainu’s magma for 10 days straight. Said magma evaporated a steel sword without any contact, Natsu’s has never evaporated steel in the same way as he did.

      Reflector is not going to work when a flash freeze goes in all directions, so August is getting hit regardless. The Wizard can’t also copy Aokiji’s devil fruit since it comes from a object, and it has been stated August cannot copy holder magic. Which is basically magic granted from items, however this is assuming devil fruits are magical to begin with when they have not unless with vague sayings.

      Sleep magic is not going to work on a person who fought for 10 days strait, scales above people like Zoro who can suffered from his insides being torn apart while in a weakened state. His will power can simply keep him awake, when sleep magic just focuses on making his tiredness increase and if Aokiji can fight off tiredness for 10 days August’s is not sending him to bed. That like above assumes if he can even effect people with the same or more endurance as Aokiji.

      August’s time magic just alters Aokiji’s perspective of time, yet his Observation Haki can help him re align his attacks. Moving onto his Crash magic it is useless when Aokiji can simply reform himself from a pile of shattered ice. All Aokiji has to do is constantly spam ice age get August frozen and do whatever from their. Even if August does go for the waiting game, he is going to get outlasted due to his and Aokiji’s gap in stamina.

      Water doesn’t mean anything when Aokiji can simply freeze it, are we forgetting what happened when his ice touched the ocean? Look at his fight with Whitebeard he was completely shattered and feel into the bay and froze it with his broken parts.

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    • (Sure, let's just completely dodge Doffy vs August which i made a few days ago. Also, isn't Low 6-B FT gonna be downgraded?)

      Also, August only used sleep magic on a character immensely inferior to him. He never used it in combat against people who were actually threats to him. So either 1) it doesn't work on people comparable to him, or 2) he doesn't use it in character. Either way, it wont be a factor.

      Aokiji FRA

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    • @CinCameron20 - Whether Low 6-B Fairy Tail is getting downgraded or not all depends on this thread since the Low 6-B calc for Fairy Tail depends on it. 

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    • Well it better go through, or else i'm pulling up my 2x Sun sized OP planet to make the verse hit 6-A again lol.

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    • Natsu's fire can vaporize sand in far weaker forms, passively melts a huge stadium and vapes lakes despite not contacting them just from his magical power alone and no actual flames etc. This is the guy who can't neg August's flames.

      Reflector say no u. Everything non organic that enters the field gets shunted outside or around the user so August is untouchable unless Kuzan goes cqc where he isn't even allowed to use his logia or get removed from August's Reflector.

      Sleep magic will work unless he can resist it. It doesn't focus on making people more tired, that's pure headcanon.

      Once again wrong. In Racer's first ever appearance it gets explained that it actually slows the time of everything within the field and the only way to get around its time slow beyond simply being fast enough that it doesn't matter is for something to begin its motion outside the field and enter in hence Gray sniping with his IM:Cannon from the top of Lyon's pillar. Even if Aokiji does this, Reflector 'no u's once again.

      August never fought someone who was a threat to him except for Acno who resists magic and his sleep hax has shown no such weakness. He literally flexed on everyone he ever fought and the one time he got serious was when he was bloodlusted and used Ars Magia. He wasn't going for the incap nor needed to so unless Aokiji has resistance to sleep manip, he takes a nap the moment August whips it out.

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    • CinCameron20 wrote:
      Well it better go through, or else i'm pulling up my 2x Sun sized OP planet to make the verse hit 6-A again lol.

      I don't remember OP being 6-A in the past, only 6-B.

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    • <Sun sized one Piece planet

      What idiot thought that was accurate?

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    • @Beast Shirahohi was High 6-A if I remember corrrectly

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    • also by these scan its nearly confirmed that august copy natsu fdsm 1 2 

      Sleep magic is not going to work on a person who fought for 10 days strait, scales above people like Zoro who can suffered from his insides being torn apart while in a weakened state. His will power can simply keep him awake, when sleep magic just focuses on making his tiredness increase and if Aokiji can fight off tiredness for 10 days August’s is not sending him to bed. That like above assumes if he can even effect people with the same or more endurance as Aokiji.

      he keep able to fight 10days, didnt give him abiliy to resist sleep manipulation.

      when sleep magic just focuses on making his tiredness increase and if Aokiji can fight off tiredness for 10 days August’s is not sending him to bed

      that's not how sleep magic works, that's drowsiness which larcade posses.

      August didnt use it in character

      he can read mind, using it he can easily figure out how to deal with akoji.

      once he put in sleep, i doubt his logia pwer will work. and without his logia healing, he isnt going to survive august attacks 

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    • Kuzan FRA

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    • Aokiji FRA

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    • What FRA tho? He can't hit August aside from cqc that prevents him from using logia whereas August can just Crash him then and there or block with barriers or sleep manip.

      August even comes with a Meteor amp if needed so he is even faster on top of a blizworthy time slow.

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    • Crash is useless, Kuzan can regenerate from it. Logia isn't only "lol intangible hax." It's more along the lines of "Lol intangible, regen and passive aura hax."

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    • So he gets removed from Reflector and is thus unable to touch August once again.

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    • It just occured to me than since August knows all magic, we should probably add every ability from every type of magic character in Fairy Tail...

      That'll be hell

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    • well, he doesnt actually know all magic, he just copies any magic near him.

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    • No, it's stated he's learned nearly every magic, copy magic is an ability he uses to learn these magics

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    • someone does say he knows every magic (i think, but i dont remeber exactly whats said by who or when.) but i always just assumed that was because he copied every magic he came across and no one but him knew he could just copy them, not that he actually learned them.

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    • Once he copies a magic, he can use it forever, it's not a one and done situation, so he's basically Kakashi

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    • i thought there was a range to it like he could only use copied magic that is near him, like in his fight against gildarts and cana he's only uses crash magic (gildarts magic) but never uses any kind of defense magic to protect himself against canas cards or use a diffrent kind of magic to take them by suprise or something (exept mabye the self destruct magic at the end.).

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    • To be fair, we've never once seen August get seriousm, he was kinda toying with Gildarts

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    • not really he seemed pretty serious to me, gildarts and cana even forced him to use his self destruct magic and he was in his higher form for atleast some of the fight..

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    • Nah, he was going to use the Self Destruction Magic even before Gildarts Attacked him, that was always his plan, plus Gildarts barely scratched him with his strongest attack

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    • ill have to rewatch it, i dont remember it all that well.

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    • I mean reflection isn't really gonna do much since Kuzan is naturally resistant to ice. So attacking him with ice isn't gonna do much.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote: I mean reflection isn't really gonna do much since Kuzan is naturally resistant to ice. So attacking him with ice isn't gonna do much.

      That's not how reflector works.he it reflector any attack, even if they are made up of light(since midnight can reflect light to create illsuion), it's basically Like Gaara sand defense, but better version.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote: I mean reflection isn't really gonna do much since Kuzan is naturally resistant to ice. So attacking him with ice isn't gonna do much.

      Reflector is what prevents Kuzan from hitting August with ice.

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    • I'm aware, I'm not sure if you understood the point I've tried to make. Reflecting an ice attack back at Kuzan isn't gonna be negative to Kuzan. I.E, it's useful but it wouldn't have much of an impact.

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    • Yeah, in this fight it's going to be more useful as a defense than an attack.

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    • Did ANYONE see that post?

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    • Dude you will not post that fast enough

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    • August has the magical ability to hear a person's very soul, allowing him to tell what they are going to do next, and allows him to hear their thoughts. With it, August is able to foresee all of the attacks performed against him and react accordingly, countering them without effort.

      So with August being to hear aokiji very soul I can't kuzan winning; how can conq haki counters sound magic I'm which can hear souls as well as thoughts my vote is August only for that reason other wise aokiji high diff

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    • Weird, last I checked Cobra's mind reading doesn't work on the soul.

      It sounds a lot like Kenbunshoku Haki, anyway.

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    • Also reflector doesn’t works on humans.

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    • Schnee One wrote: <Sun sized one Piece planet

      What idiot thought that was accurate?

      Literally everyone. They only started going like "wait wtf" when some random fodder like Gladius ended up being tier 6 lmao.

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    • Mother of god.....

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    • Gladius final explosion is obviously a DBZ reference so he should be High 4-C

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      Natsu's fire can vaporize sand in far weaker forms, passively melts a huge stadium and vapes lakes despite not contacting them just from his magical power alone and no actual flames etc. This is the guy who can't neg August's flames.

      Reflector say no u. Everything non organic that enters the field gets shunted outside or around the user so August is untouchable unless Kuzan goes cqc where he isn't even allowed to use his logia or get removed from August's Reflector.

      Sleep magic will work unless he can resist it. It doesn't focus on making people more tired, that's pure headcanon.

      Once again wrong. In Racer's first ever appearance it gets explained that it actually slows the time of everything within the field and the only way to get around its time slow beyond simply being fast enough that it doesn't matter is for something to begin its motion outside the field and enter in hence Gray sniping with his IM:Cannon from the top of Lyon's pillar. Even if Aokiji does this, Reflector 'no u's once again.

      August never fought someone who was a threat to him except for Acno who resists magic and his sleep hax has shown no such weakness. He literally flexed on everyone he ever fought and the one time he got serious was when he was bloodlusted and used Ars Magia. He wasn't going for the incap nor needed to so unless Aokiji has resistance to sleep manip, he takes a nap the moment August whips it out.

      Okay thats unquantifiable, we don't know how much stronger Natsu's heat increased since those feats unless your going to use vague multiplyers which is calc staking. They are all nice feats but their boiling points are all lower than steel, and even if it is hotter. As I said before it isn't going to give him that much damage due to his body having no flesh, meaning his stamina won't be that dented.

      Refectlor can only affect one area at a time, Aokiji's might not get to freeze August in his first atempts but once he decides to flash freeze in all directions August cannot defend himself because the biggest weakness of Reflector is that he can't defend from both around and above so he will get flash frozen. Logia's like Ace stopped the Drum Kingdom from snowing for as long as he was there, which the Admirals are superior to by replicating the same feat yet they don't need to stay for it to work so they have the range.

      The burden of proof is for you to make, not me, you said it without any evidence supporting it and if you say I haven't well you still haven't proved it. Meanwhile people will go with the ones with the shown limitations, unless you like high balling.Aokiji has not demostrated to affect people who has the same will power as Aokiji, unless your one of those people who think Itachi can genjutsu Goku when his power and will power transcend anything he has done. No it's not my headcanon, it directly affects their tiredess since it is sleep manipulation who needs its main contributer tiredess. Even if he managed to put him to sleep, his logia activates even if the user is not aware of the situation. Look at Doffy cutting off Croco's head, no FT character August scales to has demostrated Admiral levels or stamina or let alone that of Ace/JInbe.

      Aokiji has Observation Haki that is good as Augusts precog, they will both know what their opponent is going to do and time it correctly. However if it comes down to them trying to block each other or stall then August is not going to win when he has not been capable of fighting with seriously injuries as Aokiji for 10 days. Finally August has not faught someone as big of a threat as Aokiji. Stomping Natsu in sheer power is not going to prove he is capable of fighting as long as an OP Top Tier, when the feat isn't stamina based and sorry if I get anything wrong sometimes I read things then get the wrong idea.

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    • Since when was that a weakness of Reflector? Where did you get that from?

      Itachi would be able to genjutsu Goku. Goku's not 4D and doesn't have any resistance to mind manipulation.

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    • NOTE: DO NOT QUOTE WALLS OF TEXT

      They clog up the thread

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    • Sorry Schnee, haven't been in this community for a while.

      Check Erza vs Midnight, the weakness gets mentioned there.

      I meant transcend as an expression, and no thats not has it works your asuming Itachi's Genjutsu's power is strong of that as Goku's. When their is a clear gap in power, and if you cling onto the possibility of him doing that to Goku I can cling onto the possibility of him negating it. Both are not being able to be proven unless we follow extremely high assumptions, look up NlF. I just wanted to clear of that lets just walk it off and if you have any problems go to people who tell you about it.

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    • Genjutsu negates durability, Goku being physically millions of times stronger than Itachi doesn't make Itachi's genjutsu not work on him.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hax

      "Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore one or more of an opponent's statistics and effectively render them irrelevant, such as soul-based attacks ignoring conventional durability."

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    • What I think

      You were talking about

      While it is true that he can't effect multiple areas, that isn't the same as him only being able to effect a specific direction. He can still effect the entirety of the area around himself which makes AOE/attacks that come in from several directions useless. Since August isn't going to be using Reflector magic directly on Kuzan, he is free to use it on any attacks that get near him.

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    • Some hax don't always bypass the NLf, some do if that Hax as something remotely has to do with the opponents power in any way it applies to the nlf. Like Itachi's genjutsu it still relies on manipulating chakra aka power, and if he hasn't shown it affect the energy of Goku's level it is a NFL to assume. This applies to August as well, he is affecting the will power of a person by making them more sleepy, thus if their was a person to exceed he will power of those he made asleep he will not affect them. I however might of made a mistake saying that my possibility is not valid, when the low ball assumption is more valid than the high balled. Thats why I mentioned them altering the island, meaning it goes in up, down, left and right since a potent Logia Fruit can affect the sky if they wanted to. Meaning Aokiji's power does affect multiple areas at a time bypassing th Reflector.

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    • Effecting multiple areas at a time does not bypass Reflector. Reflector can only work in two areas at a time. If August uses Reflector on Kuzan, then yes, he can get hit while doing that. But if August is only using Reflector in the area around himself(Which he would do), then Kuzan will not be able to hit him even if he attacks the entire country they're in.

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    • Refectlor can only affect one area at a time, Aokiji's might not get to freeze August in his first atempts but once he decides to flash freeze in all directions August cannot defend himself because the biggest weakness of Reflector is that he can't defend from both around and above so he will get flash frozen. Logia's like Ace stopped the Drum Kingdom from snowing for as long as he was there, which the Admirals are superior to by replicating the same feat yet they don't need to stay for it to work so they have the range.

      umm, no, reflector can reflector anything from all direction [1], its just cant be used on two palace at same time.

      Aokiji has Observation Haki that is good as Augusts precog, they will both know what their opponent is going to do and time it correctly. However if it comes down to them trying to block each other or stall then August is not going to win when he has not been capable of fighting with seriously injuries as Aokiji for 10 days. Finally August has not faught someone as big of a threat as Aokiji. Stomping Natsu in sheer power is not going to prove he is capable of fighting as long as an OP Top Tier, when the feat isn't stamina based and sorry if I get anything wrong sometimes I read things then get the wrong idea.

      the difference between akoji haki and august mind reading is, akoji can only predict oppoen next move, while august didnt just read his mind, he can also read his memory/weakness and their plan.

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    • @Tryhard

      Unquantifiable? Sand requires goddamn lightning to sublimate and even then it barely does it to half a cm around the bolt. Who the hell needs "vague multipliers" when Natsu's flames have feats putting them over x5 above the sun's temp and his resist still can't neg August. By the way, vague multipliers aren't calc stacking at all, learn what the term actually means.

      Dragon already explained why you were completely wrong here

      Burden of proof is on me? This shit is explained on Racer's page on this very wiki. They say perception but its blatantly obvious that everything inside the filed is slowed or else people would be able to make themselves go "faster" than what they normally do if it only slows perception. Something on a profile >>>>>> absolutely everything you say without a crt.

      Dragon also explained the hax so no need to bother with that. Stamina has nothing to do with being forcefully put to sleep. If Aokiji can sleep and has no resistance to it, he takes a nap.

      And now you are just throwing out random claims no one mentioned at all. He puts him to sleep. No one is arguing August will play a game of attrition. Reflector negs all range so Kuzan needs to cqc, Time Slow and Meteor speed amp August for the advantage in cqc and he just uses sleep manip to incap.

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    • August FRA

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    • August fra

      @Rin

      What were the reasons you FRA'd Kuzan for?

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    • The Calaca wrote: Weird, last I checked Cobra's mind reading doesn't work on the soul.

      It sounds a lot like Kenbunshoku Haki, anyway.

      Cobra ? I'm talking about August

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    • August copied that magic from Cobra.

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    • Aplogies I meant that his transformations don't multiple his heat is what are unquantifiable, rather than the feats in those forms which a quantifiable. The same goes for Dragons points, Reflector can't affect two areas such as theirs and the opponent at the same time.

      Again I meant something else that I may of not clarified as well, what I meant was August hasn't affected people his tier with sleep magic or has demostrated the ability to put someone with similar or more endurance than Aokiji to sleep. Before you say I need to prove it, you need to prove it first since you made the claim with a lack of evidence supporting August can do it to his own tier. 

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    • Aplogies I meant that his transformations don't multiple his heat is what are unquantifiable, rather than the feats in those forms which a quantifiable. The same goes for Dragons points, Reflector can't affect two areas such as theirs and the opponent at the same time

      Natsu in the base from can vaporize sand, but when he goes Fdkm(with his own power) he can set the earth on fire/vaporize the whole lake, just by his body heat. So yes, transformation increases his fire temp and power.

      Yes, reflector can't affect two area, which everyone know, but if user use it on himself, they can reflect attack from everywhere, which is shown in above scan, midnight can even reflect/bend Natsu fd roar in his sleep, without looking at him, same against erza, he reflects blade coming from side and behind. Which proof reflector can deflect both physical and elemental attacks.

      Again I meant something else that I may of not clarified as well, what I meant was August hasn't affected people his tier with sleep magic or has demostrated the ability to put someone with similar or more endurance than Aokiji to sleep. Before you say I need to prove it, you need to prove it first since you made the claim with a lack of evidence supporting August can do it to his own tier

      Sleep magic is a hax, it's not a ap based attack,akoji didn't have any feat to resist magic based attack, endurance can't do anything if you can't resist hax.

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    • Akoji can with 10day with sleep is his natural endurance against sleep. Its not a resistance from slepp manipulation.

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    • Number1Tryhard wrote: The same goes for Dragons points, Reflector can't affect two areas such as theirs and the opponent at the same time.

      Yes, I know. I didn't say he would. August will only use Reflector on his own area, which would neg all of Kuzan's ranged attacks.

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    • Has anyone counted the votes yet

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    • Bump

      Is this correct

      Oh well

      Aokiji - 4 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro)

      August - 5 (AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105)

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    • so nuts im voted Kuzan Fra.

      anyone who sides?

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    • Ice man fra

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    • Wizard King fra

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    • The last month of Natsu FRA!

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    • HenryWong122 wrote:
      The last month of Natsu FRA!

      Lol, never thought of it that way.

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    • If Tryhard's initial comment is what everyone is FRAing Kuzan for, all of its combat relevant points have been debunked.

      Reflector works on AOE attacks, August's Time Slow is actually Time Slow and doesn't get negged by Observation Haki, and Stamina/Endurance does not give you resistance to sleep hax.

      The only other thing you could argue his comment is saying is that Kuzan would wear out August's Reflector with spamming attacks but that would be wrong too since Midnight can keep it up while sleeping and August has the same level of competency if not better.

      With Reflector negging any ranged attack Kuzan tries, he would have to do CQC which August would still beat him in due to having Time Slow and Meteor (A speed amp).

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    • ZackMoon1234 wrote: Bump

      Is this correct

      Oh well

      Aokiji - 4 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro)

      August - 5 (AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105)

      my vote goes to August

      put me on this list too

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    • Aokiji - 4 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro)

      August - 8 (HenryWong, ShadowGun, AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105, Zackra)

      Grace started 5 hours ago

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    • Strawboi and Jimboy also voted for Kuzan so it's 6 to 8, so no grace

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    • Grace is on. If it ends and the difference is less than 3 votes, this is deemed as inconclusive.

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    • The Calaca wrote:
      Grace is on. If it ends and the difference is less than 3 votes, this is deemed as inconclusive.

      Oh okay

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    • I see Kuzan taking this based on the arguments above. I may look biased because of my username. but that's how I see it. Voting Kuzan FRA

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    • hat well gueZackra1799 wrote:
      Strawboi and Jimboy also voted for Kuzan so it's 6 to 8, so no grace

      no matter that well guess no way switch too.

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote: Aokiji - 4 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro)

      August - 8 (HenryWong, ShadowGun, AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105, Zackra)

      Grace started 5 hours ago

      I vote for August. He can also gain speed advantage by delaying Aokiji

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    • He also copied Crash Magic didn't he?

      Yeah then that's absolutely insane. He can crash Aokiji, Gildarts has crashed light in the Ice Trail spin off.

      The caster who hails himslef as the greatest in the continent csays that Gildarts has crashed light itself.

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    • Logia regen negs Crash. It only makes August more deadly in cqc

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    • Bump

      Aokiji - 7 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro, Jimboydejuan12, Strawboi, MonkeyDeeLuffy)

      August - 9 (AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105, Zackra1799, HenryWong122, ShadowGun45, Nerd1435)

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    • Natsu's nephew for reason above

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    • It's worth noting that Kuzan also have speed amps via Soru.

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    • That's not confirmed.

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    • So

      Aokiji - 7 (Number1Tryhard, CinCameron20, Rin The Dragon Empress, Rei Rubro, Jimboydejuan12, Strawboi, MonkeyDeeLuffy)

      August - 10 (AnonymousBlank, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, 1997KD, Kunglao105, Zackra1799, HenryWong122, ShadowGun45, Nerd1435, Beast Zero Gudako)

      Although ShadowGun45's vote could probably be removed since they told me that their vote is August without any reasonings, making the Votes 7-9 in favor of August

      While Nerd1435's vote could probably pass since he talked about Speed Advantage via Delay

      Has August ever used Crash Magic when he copied it

      The only thing I remember from him was Fire Magic and his Suicide Magic

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    • He got diced up by Crash from behind and beat up Gildarts while a pile of legos before returning to normal. Aside from negging it, he doesn't use Crash as he was beating up Gildarts anyway and then got pissed off by the parental love shizz.

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    • Definitely going with Aokiji due to August never utilizing useful abilities pertinent to this fight in-character against powerful foes, Crash Magic not working on an intangible block of ice to incap Aokiji, and Aokiji having canon fights against someone with absurdly more potent heat-based attacks for 10 days on end to a near-draw conclusion. 

      That, and also FRA. 

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    • Someone add this

      It's Inconclusive

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    • Xulrev wrote: Definitely going with Aokiji due to August never utilizing useful abilities pertinent to this fight in-character against powerful foes

      August has never fought anyone on his level once. All the abilities that were mentioned on this thread were ones that he did use and on people who were far weaker than him. It makes no sense to say he wouldn't use such abilities against someone who is actually on his level.

      Crash Magic not working on an intangible block of ice to incap Aokiji

      Crash was mentioned to be used in cqc where logia cannot be used or else he will get removed from cqc by Reflector.

      and Aokiji having canon fights against someone absurdly more potent heat-based attacks for 10 days on end to a near-draw conclusion.

      August scales above Natsu's heat feats which are multiple times hotter than the sun vs vaporizing steel.

      Most of these FRA don't even mention a wincon for Aokiji. Xulrev did but it is literally the ability to outlast August which definitely is not more likely than getting sleep hax'd by a guy much faster than him.

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    • Not like this can be added anyway since Kuzan is the faster of the two and August is using a speed amp. Also I doubt Reflector is gonna be very effective against Kuzan even in CQC, Kuzan is naturally resistant to his own attacks and can even imbue attacks with Haki. Also speed amping isn't gonna do much against Kuzan since he has the better precog and lol passive Logia guard. Seems like August really only has one win con which is sleep manipulation. Also Akainu has two feats that place his magma hotter than the sun, one of which was done passively.

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    • Why are people saying August will win?

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    • Sleep has + Speed amp which the latter should be taken care of by Kenbun Haki. Sleep has is also something that's debatable since skilled Haki users can still react and counter attacks while unconscious as seen with Luffy.

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    • August's abilitiy isn't speed amp, it's time-manip based.

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    • Also would Haki equalize with FT magic? Given that both Magic and Haki reside within everyone in their respective verses and for it to be awakened, you have to either train or experience a tramatic event, which is true for both verses.

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    • Nah this wiki doesn't really equalize Haki with any other enegry.

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    • Kuzan is the faster of the two and August is using a speed amp. Also I doubt Reflector is gonna be very effective against Kuzan even in CQC, Kuzan is naturally resistant to his own attacks and can even imbue attacks with Haki

      It does not speed amp, it's passively slowing other perception of time.

      Why everyone thinks august will reflect akojj ice back to him, the reflector can use to reflector back attack, but it's primary use is make user immune to any physical/element attack.

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    • Reflector works on physical attacks?

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    • It reflects swords so physical attacks can be reflected, the limitation seems to be it can’t reflect organic attacks, so punches and kicks work fine

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    • Aight so how it goes is Aokiji uses range attacks, Reflector no diffs it and can be left on even while the user is asleep. Literally has to go cqc now as he wont be able to insta kill August since the guy walks off a 2 foot long gap through his chest in a weaker form Mest messing with Brandish was actually good for something

      Cqc means he is definitely within Slowing Magic's AOE which lets Racer blitz Gray, Lyon, Natsu etc despite initially being slow enough to get blitzed by them even across a huge distance (I'm talking a km minimum) while he is looking right at Gray. There is also Meteor's speed amp which Jellal has a special suit to utilise even better but August's Meteor is even better without a suit of his own.

      So Aokiji has to cqc against a guy who will kick him out of Reflector the moment he uses his logia so he cannot afford to use it or it just resets their fight. No logia means Crash turns him into bloody chunks. Ignoring Crash, Sleep Magic KOs ftw. Sound Magic and whichever Haki lets him precog will cancel each other out. Remove Slowing Magic and August can still do the above anyway, it just becomes somewhat of an actual challenge when he isn't blitzing twice over.

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    • If it goes the way Blank claims, then it's an objective stomp since Kuzan has no way of ever harming August, and shouldn't be added regardless. 

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    • Bump

      We are probably gonna need the input of the OP supporters if it's indeed a stomp or not to see if they could counter his arguments

      I'll hold on adding this as Inconclusive

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    • Reading the enitre Racer fight over it doesn't actually look like his Magic is ever been stated to be related to the manipulation of time. Lyon just states that Racer is slowing his opponents.

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    • Anyone want to add this as Inconclusive?

      I'll add it later if no one does.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote:
      Reading the enitre Racer fight over it doesn't actually look like his Magic is ever been stated to be related to the manipulation of time. Lyon just states that Racer is slowing his opponents.

      It's Perception Manipulation.

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    • Which is useless via Kenbun Haki.

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    • It isn't perception manipulation. It is time slow as it slows down everything in it's range except the user.

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    • ZackMoon1234 wrote: Anyone want to add this as Inconclusive?

      I'll add it later if no one does.

      Considering there's still a discussion about this, we can't add the matchup yet. We have to decide if this is a stomp or not.

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    • Zackra1799 wrote:
      It isn't perception manipulation. It is time slow as it slows down everything in it's range except the user.

      Slow Magic is an area-effect Magic that allows the user to slow down whatever they wish within a certain radius of themselves; doing so makes themselves appear as if they are moving much faster than they actually are. Should anyone be outside of the area of effect and be viewing the caster's performance, they appear to be moving at their usual, normal speed. This Magic also only works on sentient, living beings, as the original caster, Sawyer should have theoretically been able to slow down Gray's arrow when it entered his sphere of influence, but did not.

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    • It is never stayed to be limited to living/sentient beings. It's an area of effect spell as stated by Lyon that targets everything in range. This is shown by the bird which sped up when it left the range of the spell. Unless you want to say Racer targeted the birds. The situation with Gray seems like Plot armor tbh.

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    • August FRA

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    • Zackra1799 wrote:
      It is never stayed to be limited to living/sentient beings. It's an area of effect spell as stated by Lyon that targets everything in range. This is shown by the bird which sped up when it left the range of the spell. Unless you want to say Racer targeted the birds.

      The situation with Gray seems like Plot armor tbh.

      I got that off the fandom page!

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    • I'll post something about this thread in a while. Please wait.

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    • HenryWong122 wrote:

      I got that off the fandom page!

      Just looked it up on the fandom page as well and it also states it's time manip based, and doesn't state anything about it only affecting living things.

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    • Zackra1799 wrote:
      HenryWong122 wrote:

      I got that off the fandom page!

      Just looked it up on the fandom page as well and it also states it's time manip based, and doesn't state anything about it only affecting living things.

      Did you read this page? https://fairytail.fandom.com/wiki/Slow_Magic

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    • Okay, I reread August's fight so I can revise this thread properly.

      First, Reflector won't work on DF powers nor intangibility. It works on magic, and DF powers ain't magic. August isn't nulling Kuzan here at all, much less reducing him to CQC. Worth noting that he need feats of copying non-magic shit as well, so he's not getting those powers.

      Second, Reflector won't reflect the ice either. If there's a way to equalize this, we have to consider that the Hie Hie no Mi powers come from the fruit, just like how Celestial Spirits come from the keys. Bit of a stretchy equivalency, but without the fruit, Kuzan doesn't make "ice magic", so August can't reflect that.

      Third, I need the chapter for Sawyer vs Gray's fight. This would be solved much easier if we look at the scans rather than the wiki which might not be reliable.

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    • HenryWong122 wrote:

      Did you read this page? https://fairytail.fandom.com/wiki/Slow_Magic

      Hmm, it seems that i missed that page, but in any case, that information comes from the "Emergancy Quest" section at the end of the volume, so do we count those as canon.

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    • If Reflector wouldn't work on the ice powers, then Kuzan opens this fight putting August heavily on the defensive and all votes for August citing Reflector need be removed since Kuzan absolutely wins in light of that fact

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    • @Calaca Reflector isn’t an ability that solely reflects magic, where you got that from I don’t know. It reflects Erza’s swords most of which are none magical in nature, her base armour which provides no inherent magical abilities and it warps clothing which again was non magical and the only special thing about it was that it was stretchy.

      So all in all an inaccurate counter point

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    • Slowing magic isn't stated to be time based in the manga going by thr official scans.
      20191201 194722
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      • Thats slowing magic not reflector
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    • Meant to say slowing magic.

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    • @David magic is in all things. And considering a lot of Erza's weapons have magical characteristics it's not strange to think that he's, I don't know, reflecting the magic.

      Chapter of MacBeth's introduction and fight, please.

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    • And even then, he doesn't reflect Cana's cards for some reason. Maybe he can't. Well, the same happens with Kuzan's ice.

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    • @Calaca

      Chapter 154

      It's not just Magic or Erza's swords it's also able to bend light and air as well.

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    • Which contains magic in it.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote:
      Slowing magic isn't stated to be time based in the manga going by thr official scans.
      20191201 194722

      If thats the case then someone should make a crt for it because his magic is listed as time manipulation

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    • Also Erza never attacked Midnight from behind, she attacked directly in front of him. Which is made useless considering Kuzan can just spawn spikes of ice aiming for every spot on August.

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    • Okay, read the chapters. What I can get from that is:

      • Reflector can't be used in two spaces at the same time. Either he attacks or defends, but not both at the same time. Meaning that Kuzan can spam swords in the air if August tries to reflect his ice.
      • August doesn't go Reflector on people. If he didn't use it against Cana's cards or Gildarts' punch then that's not in-character.

      So no. Reflector isn't an argument here.

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    • Oh for the love of, please, saying “magic is in all things” isn’t an argument especially when you take into consideration that based on SBA it is established that the fight takes place in a neutral location that provides no inherent advantage or disadvantage to any character. What you’re trying to do there is apply a technicality to the fight so as to give a character an advantage, frankly it’s a dishonest and irritating tactic.

      Reflector is a passive defence normally, if the individual is attacking its defence isn’t activated, it cannot work on two places at once but it can be manipulated with August at the epicentre and it doesn’t work on living organisms these are the rules of Reflector, no weird caveats aside from these, everyone just stick with them for heavens sake

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    • You could've just let it go but NOPE, y'all gotta be difficult!

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    • SBA doesn't make Kuzan's ice magical either. It has been established that Reflector doesn't bend the human body. Welp, Kuzan's human body will not be affected, and moving his ice won't do shit either.

      Not like it matters. August doesn't even use Reflector againt fodder shit. There's no evidence he'd do to Kuzan here.

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    • HenryWong122 wrote: You could've just let it go but NOPE, y'all gotta be difficult!

      ?

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    • Not like it matters. August doesn't even use Reflector against fodder shit. There's no evidence he'd do to Kuzan here

      He never fights without having logia body, why he will take extra damage when he can just shrug off that attack, and akoji being on same tier as august didn't make akoji or his attack fodders

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    • The Calaca wrote: SBA doesn't make Kuzan's ice magical either.

      I never suggested SBA makes Kuzan magical, I’m saying it doesn’t matter because an absence of magic isn’t reflectors weakness. Ur trying to argue that because everything has magic in FT reflector can only effect things with magic, I point out that that is never an established weakness and your response is “well magic exists in everything so he’s only reflecting the magic” which isn’t even an argument since you have no evidence to prove that he’s exclusively reflecting magic and not the objects physical form, he reflects light, he reflects the ground, he reflects air these are all natural phenomena.

      If we adopt ur ridiculous stance on this matter it’ll basically make FT battles inapplicable on the site because you’ll just argue well X happens in a universe without magic so this ability won’t work, completely ignoring the fact that this particular system of an ever present energy permeating everything isn’t a unique concept. Tons of verses adopt this concept and we’ve hardly ever had an issue of someone attempting to use that as a technicality to exclude abilities.

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    • HenryWong122 wrote: You could've just let it go but NOPE, y'all gotta be difficult!

      I assume this is referring to me. Y should I let it go? I think it’s a poor argument and a dishonest one so I’m going to point it out, better to address than just ignore it

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    • What I meant is that August doesn't even use Reflector on fodder attacks. He prefers to dodge or even take the hit rather than using it (Cana and Gildarts, respectively).

      @David In a world full of magic, but okay. I concede on this one. Doesn't disprove the lack of use of this ability.

      But that's exactly what we do. Characters with Magic Nullification can't affect characters without magic even through verse equalization. Heck, they don't even affect characters with a chi-based energy. We don't do things just because how aplicable they are. Look at Bleach or Star Wars if you don't believe me

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    • The issue is reflector isn’t magic nullification, it’s is attack reflection. There is no evidence that suggests it is only effective against magic, it’s isn't described as been effective solely against magic, it isn’t described as reflecting the magic in objects, all we are told and shown is that attacks are reflected or diverted around Midnight.

      My problem here isn’t the vs (I honestly couldn’t care less) my issue is that you’re trying to argue that because reflector is only ever used in its home universe, that is sufficient reason to argue that it won’t work on abilities without the omnipresence of magical energy when that isn’t a limitation presented in the story nor is it a reasonable assumption to make based on the description of the power itself.

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    • Yeah, there's a difference between someone with magic nullification trying to powernull a kamehameha and someone with spatial manip magic trying to move it. The former requires the Ki attack to be magic and the latter does not. Reflector is not a magic that requires something to have magic in it to be used on them and this is never stated anywhere in the story or by WoG.

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote: Also Erza never attacked Midnight from behind, she attacked directly in front of him. Which is made useless considering Kuzan can just spawn spikes of ice aiming for every spot on August.

      I already responded to this earlier but I posted scans of the fight above. The reason Erza managed to hit Midnight is because Reflector can not be used in two places at once. It can be used in the area around the user or on someone else. It does not only work in front of Midnight or August.

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    • Also, Midnight can bend light himself to create magic, and pretty sure that he can make the 3D illusions like mavis by bending light.

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    • Relfector works on natural elements, thus it works on ice. Provide the scan that specifies it is on magic only. Next.

      August not using stuff against a pair of fodder is absolute PIS and not a reason to say he won't against someone equal when he used it to flex on other fodder who were stronger than Cana like .... yesterday. The fact that he can't copy what he would believe to be magic would be even more reason to actually use his stuff against a relative opponent.

      Him dodging Cana's cards is also a narrative choice as Mashima needs a way for the Copy Magic to be explained beyond villain explains his power to reveal a convenient weakness trope. Mashima does the same thing when Erza figures out Midnight's Reflector in the Nirvana arc. Gildarts, who I think we can all agree shits on Cana power wise, blew up his arm with an overcharged attack because August can't null item based bagic yet the old man just ignored a direct hit and bodied them even more. Him dodging is PIS, no way around it, and him not Reflecting anything else from them is because he negged everything.

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    • Tbh I really don’t agree with any points presented about August.

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    • Mind explainimg why? Just saying so is less helpful that not saying anything.

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    • Let this end listen everyone here is constantly repeating the same points with some facts more of opinions Kuzan does not I repeat does not have any form of resistance against magic, so to my point August flames are magic based not DF based and how can kuzan counter magic in any sense then again how can August counter all of kuzans abilities; he can't so battle is inconclusive. A FUCKING DRAW/TIE lol

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    • If you ignore sleep hax, then sure.

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    • I love how you jump over a debunked argument that I agreed with.

      But none of you provided August using Reflector in the fight to protect him from anything. So your arguments matter little to nothing. He doesn't reflect in-character, so he's not doing that to Kuzan.

      Next.

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    • Fuck it

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