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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    18:28, April 9, 2020

    Hey everybody, so i had some things i wanted to talk about the tekken series that could or not change the verse a little when it comes to their overall tiering, scaling, feats etc

    1)Looking at Jin story from Tekken 6 after he declares war with the whole world, its said the Mishima zaibatsu swept taking over nation after nation, in Jack 6 story from the same game the Mishima Zaibatsu is said they had manufactured their copy of Jack made for large scale massacre.

    Now i dont wanna jump too much to conclusions, but the part where they say it was designed for such scale could be very likely be talking about the countries that Zaibatsu was attacking, since Jin goal was to cause destruction around, also on google it gave me as synonyms for large scale the word nationwide here

    Is it making sense or not? In the case it does, this could probably be an upgrade, since Jack 6 which is the newest model at the time is sent there as its answer to it and those that scale to the character would in turn get that level of power too, but thats just a suggestion so opinions on this are highly needed if its fine or not

    2)The Top Tiers and above in the verse have City level+ from a feat from Gun Jack, some other characters from Upper Tiers and Mid tiers scale to this too, since characters in these ranges defeated superior models to that one, like Alisa, so these characters could very likely get City level+ as well, as for the speed, the Upper Tiers which mostly are scaling to the levels of the Mishimas back then at the time like Paul for example, could get Sub-Relativistic speed, Heihachi before Tekken 1 events dodged a laser from Devil Kazumi that the devil gene users have this fast

    Now a bigger thing to discuss, since the Top Tiers and above are way more powerful then those tiers below them by a wide margin and the feat in question from Gun Jack is like high end City level, i was thinking for them to go up to Mountain level if possible given the large gap between the feat of the character and the ones from Top Tiers and above, opinion on this are also needed highly if its fine or not

    3)Now this one is gonna be maybe harder to accept perhaps, but Tekken Blood Vengeance movie was said by the director of Tekken that it is half canon and that not everything in it is canon, any feats or stuff from the movie werent counted before for the series on this site cuz it was contradicting some stuff, but honestly, given he said its half canon, only the parts that are fine should be used from it, like the devil forms for example, before its pointed out that they are unique to the movie only, they arent really, Tekken 7 shown for Kazuya at least that devil form in the story, the only difference is the design really, in rest they look pretty much alike, its even stated in the movie that it is the true devil form, pretty much like what the one in T7 is

    Also verses like Devil May Cry uses stuff from one of its novels, like feats and abilities which is also pretty much regarded as half canon and has contradicting stuff, like a guy from there being Vergil actually even though he was a pawn for Mundus in DMC1 and what not, so i dont see why Tekken should be any different, not to mention that in T7 story we see flashbacks from the movie as well, cementing the fact events from it happened in the series

    Thats all i have for now, more could be discussed here, but these are the main things i wanted to bring up

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    • Here is a list of people who are knowledgeable on the verse. I hope it helps.

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    • 1. i mean it could be from city to city cuz its mass produced so they could do any sort of damage due to the amount

      2. Idk at least *insert tier* seems more appropriate because no indication to what extent

      3. i mean in that movie even then we have to be selective though dmc novels is cuz there is a time gap that can be filled in but for BV idk

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    • DMC novels were stated to be canon by Matt Walker (It's producer) and have actually fits the timeline minus retcons and contradictions so I wouldn't use that as an example.

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    • 1)Well in the case of the Jack unit that G Corp sended, although for Mishima Zaibatsu they didnt imply to make mass produced ones as far as i read, plus given the context for Jin forces wiping a country after the other

      2)Ok, what about the other things?Is it fine the change for the Mid and Upper tiers?

      3)tekken 7 states between its story and teken 5 intro its a gap of months, tekken 5 takes place 2 months after its intro with jack 4s assault, between tekken 5 and tekken 6 at minimum you could throw another 2 months gap given the statement earlier said

      The DMC novel still had contradicting stuff there regardless but its accepted for using feats and what not, the BV movie was said its half canon and some events from it happened, with tekken 7 showing flashbacks from it, as said only the parts that work should be used, its not too hard to select which ones

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    • DMC games themselves have contradictions and retcon stuff between each iteration and canon novels but we ignore said contradictions. The contradicting DMC novel wasn't considered canon on the wiki until WoG said otherwise and the most recent DMC novel canonized 95% of the said contradicting novel. 

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    • Either way, in both cases the ones responsible for the franchise said about the canonicity of their stuff and later on they included things from it in canon

      Anyway the thread is regarding tekken series, DMC was brought as a comparison only

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    • I know but DMC has a definitive WoG statement unlike here. Stuff from the contradicting DMC novel wasn't accepted on the wiki until the statement appeared even though canon novels canonized a large portion of that contradicting novel. I don't think the comparison could be made here and since the "half-canon" is less conclusive than something being called canon despite their contradictions. Maybe anything not contradicting the games are canon?

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    • As i said, the things which dont affect canon or arent that contradicting should be used, which in this case would be the final showdown of the movie since the rest isnt too much relevant

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    • This still needs some discussion to get to a conclusion

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    • I guess 1 and 2 are fine. As you said, 3 is a stretch.

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    • I know TB movie isnt easy to accept, but as said, Harada answered where it falls under,that its half canon and some of its events happened, plus its seen in tekken 7 main story too, its easy to ignore the events that dont fit the canon

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    • Off-topic: I wish that we can revise Samurai Shodown next

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    • That matter you gotta bring to the supporters of that verse, not here, since its not related to this

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    • I agree with 1 and 2. I’m pretty sure that “half canon” refers to something like Harada confirming Leo’s gender, but I don’t think that the plot should be counted as canon.

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    • It answers to a guy question if BV is canon, he replies that not everything is but just some of it, making it half canon, the most relevant stuff from the movie that could fit that is the mishima 3 way battle including the devil forms fight

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    • Bump

      Also since so far there are people who agree on point 1, is it Low 6-B whats used for countries destruction or 6-B?

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    • If any supporter or knowledgable member for this verse still follows this, i would want to discuss more things here

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    • Seems too vague to assume they could just wipe out a country with a single or few attacks. Something that vastly upscales from an old 7-B+ model would be more than enough to tear through a country's military and general landscape

      What would the movie's canonicity mean?

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    • I mean Jin goal was cause destruction and damage around as much as possible, which prompts to create something for large scale levels of destruction

      It means the parts that arent that contradicting have happened or its likely they did, its not hard to see which are and which arent

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    • Creating City level+ craters with an entire army of robots would still be immensely destructive. There's no actual proof they can blow up a country with an attack, and the level they'd already be is more than enough.

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    • Actually, another thing I want to bring up:

      Shouldn't only Golden Azazel, whom has their unrestrained, planet destroying power, scale to High 6-A? It doesn't make sense that the plot would be about stopping Azazel from blowing up the planet, yet the whole time he could just decide to do it.

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    • Unlike Jinpachi, Azazel is stated he has such power already from start, not from his stronger form like Jinpachi where its shown and said if no character defeats him before that moment

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    • Jack 6 would be much closer to his tag 2 feat power wise, wouldnt be far fetched but anyway thats why i asked more people to comment about it

      What you say about top tiers and above going a tier higher?okay or better to say likely higher

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    • I think it would be fine to scale them to 7-A considering Heihachi casually oneshots several of them and tanks a dog pile of self destructing robots to the face

      And I think it was an upgraded model at that

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    • Alright, so far pretty much everyone agrees with 7-A rating for top tiers and above

      But it doesnt says anywhere he was upgraded, nor implied

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    • Don't JACK models get at least minor improvements between models?

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    • They do, but i dont think jack 6 from tekken 6 to tag 2 had any improvements

      They improve them with each new generations

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    • In comparison to Gun Jack, one plenty of models down the line?

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    • From Gun Jack to Jack 4, from Jack 4 to Jack 5, from Jack 5 to Jack 6, then Jack 6 to Jack 7, they get improved

      What im saying is that Jack 6 from 6 to tag 2 is the same jack 6, he didnt get anything there

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    • The 7-B feat is from Gun Jack though

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    • I mean given they are improved each time, it wouldnt be surprising if one model was miles ahead the previous ones power wise, jack 6 as said would be much closer to his tag 2 feat, not that much of a stretch to me

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    • Tag is noncanon

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    • I know that, but i gave it as a comparison, since its the same character

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    • A staff member has to come and give his opinion too i assume for these right?

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    • Yeah

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    • @DMUA

      What are the conclusions here?

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    • Ugh

      People would upscale to 7-A from fodderizing JACK units upgraded up from Gun JACK

      that's kinda it I think

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    • Okay. That is probably fine then.

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    • I was about to ask you about the thread Ant, guess i dont need anymore

      Besides the 7-A upscaling, some characters would get upgrade in speed and tier for feats that they scale to

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    • Okay.

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    • in Tekken 5 Bryan prologue its said he has a perpetual generator that gives him "endless power", could this be counted as infinite stamina?

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    • I do not know. It seems like hyperbole that the generator will never wear down and cease to function, or run out of power.

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    • As far as i remember he never shown to be ever tired out, plus the androids in dragon ball have their stamina listed as such too for never running out of energy, much like Bryan

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    • It is a repeatedly stated canonical feature of Dragon Ball. I do not know if Tekken has similar levels of lack of realism, and has also made infinite stamina repeatedly firmly official.

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    • Well there wasnt stated that many times from what i recall, as for realism, the only thing realistic of them is the fighting styles they use, other then that Tekken isnt really a realistic verse, they have devils, angels, aliens, boxing kangaroos etc

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    • Okay. I do not think that an unproven claim is sufficient proof for something as extreme as infinite stamina though.

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    • I see

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    • Maybe it is enough to simply state that the stamina is "Extremely high" for this character instead?

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    • Fair enough i guess

      Two points are left now from here

      If statements about large scale massacre in reference to the Zaibatsu destruction of countries is legit(50-50 so far on this) and the Blood Vengeance movie being considered based on the durector if the game word about its canonicity and appearance in canon of the story

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    • Okay.

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    • Question about something, Gun Jack has a 7-B+ feat and the next models which are more improved and above that one, Jack 4, can self destruct, Heihachi tanked the self destruction of like 7(if i remember) of these Jack 4s dog piled on him

      So what i wanna ask, can the value of of the 7-B+ feat be multiplied with the Jack 4s that detonated to Heihachi face to get the power of the explosion?Or there is a rule or something against doing such a thing?

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    • I am the wrong person to ask, but wouldn't that be calc stacking?

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    • First time i hear that word "calc stacking"

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    • See here: Calc Stacking

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    • Not entirely sure  if it is, since its the first time i heard of the term and im not familiar with it, gotta ask around if it is or not

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    • Okay. You can ask one of our calc group members if you wish:

      VS Battles Staff

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    • Regarding what i asked above a few comments ago here, i was told its fine and it wouldnt be calc stacking apparently, in this case those that can harm Heihachi and are comparable to him would be more then baseline in 7-A tiering

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    • Okay. As long as a calc group member has told you that it is fine, I don't mind either.

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    • Well in that case the result would be like 554.75 megatons, would that grant a + in the 7-A rating to them right?The arithmetic mean between 100 and 1000 would be 550 for this tier

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    • Considering there were multiple flashbacks of Tekken Blood Vengeance and Tekken Tag 2 events during Tekken 7's story, I support feats and scaling from them being taken into consideration as well.

      Also I have found more evidence for canon Tekken Tag Tournament 2

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    • We need to ask those knowledgable on the verse again for input

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    • Is there a way you can better communicate what the third point is trying to upgrade or downgrade or...anything?

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    • The Tekken Blood Vengeance movie wasnt taken in consideration in the past because its non canon and contradicts stuff from the game, but in Tekken 7, flashbacks to it are shown in the main story of the game

      The director of the series(Harada) was asked where it falls in the canon of the series, he said its half canon and that events from the movie has indeed happened while some not, so certain stuff from this movie should be used and those that are contradictory should be ignored given that it was said not all of it is canon

      The main things that we can consider is the devil forms we saw in it, which are stated as the true forms of the devil gene like the one we see in tekken 7 for Kazuya, they even look more or less simlar, just a different design

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    • Well then in that case, no. 3 seems sound.

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    • alright we will need a few more people about this one to see if thy agree with it to use elements from it

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    • Oh I'm pretty experienced in Tekken as well. Been playing since the very first game and have followed the story and series intensely since then. In fact the Multi-Continent stats and stuff they have on them right now, is stuff I've been saying for YEARS on my YT channel. Like, for the exact same reasons too.

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    • Well thanks to Dark649 they got the Multi-Continental stats and more stuff after discussing it a previous thread, but now he is inactive for some reason

      After Blood Vengeance will be accepted to be used as well for the series, we gotta see what events of the movie should we look for potential upgrades and what we will exclude and falls under contradictory things around

      About Tekken tag 2, thats anotber topic for another time atm

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    • Has someone checked the satellite feat recently? Someone in the calc's page pointed out a mistake that changes the result to just over 2 megatons.

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    • The calc was accepted by calc members that know better then a random person that shows out of nowhere to comment on something

      Also dont bother the calcer on his wall on the same subject especially since he might be out for holidays as of now

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    • The mistake was for using wrong units. Other calcs using overpressure like the one I'm refering used bars, but he used PSI instead.

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    • For example, using PSI in these pages like he did, the results would be like these:

      Killua = 631 Tons

      Fodder Power Suits = 6.41 Kilotons

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    • Buddy the calc was checked by others that did hundreds of hundreds of calcs, if there was any issue or problem they would have pointed out or said something about it back then

      The word of someone like him means none, that calc stays as it is 

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    • Then I guess the other calcs I mentioned should be changed as well, because that's the way he did it. Now we'll have casual MCB+ durability for base Killua and Town Level OMP fodders.

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    • Talking like the calcs on these are remotely similar to this one

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    • Calc stays as it is, dont know why some people like you who are inactive mostly have to come and complain for everything you see randomly around

      The tekken calc is a different feat compared to these two you try to make a comparison, you bring irrelevant things here 

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    • Any calc member could have pointed out any problem it could have had when they looked at it, no issue was said, a random user that is mainly inactive and has complainings on something no others with more experience on calcs isnt gonna change anything

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    • What does being inactive have to do with any of this? I could have been visiting this wiki without being logged in for long time and only done it to comment like I'm doing now.

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    • BlackDarkness679 wrote: The calc was accepted by calc members that know better then a random person that shows out of nowhere to comment on something

      Anyone can do any math

      I missed crimson accidentally using PSI for P myself, the proper result is 2 Megatons.

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    • @DMUA

      So what should we do here?

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    • Ok last time i think the Blood Vengeance movie was accepted when asked if we should count it, there was also brought up Tekken Tag 2 about having things from it applied to the canon, so feats from there could be used too?Tag 2 has no story mode unlike other titles so all it has for it are endings mainly

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    • Wished there were more people to help with this

      Anyway still waiting on a response if the things suggested are ok

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    • You can ask DMUA and the people that Krukov recommended to comment here via their message walls.

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    • Antvasima wrote: @DMUA

      So what should we do here?

      the calc should be adjusted with Bars, but on the other hand if Tekken Tag 2 is canon, that would give JACK a high 6-B, possibly high 6-A feat

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    • Okay. What calculation are you talking about, and would you be willing to make your own version if necessary?

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    • the Gun JACK feat, it's already been fixed now that I look

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    • Antvasima wrote: You can ask DMUA and the people that Krukov recommended to comment here via their message walls.

      Dark649 is inactive since october of 2019 and few others are inactive too, but i will try to ask the rest again

      But anyway one of the points was pretty much agreed to be counted, that being the BV movie, then there is the Tag 2 game as well to be talked about

      Some calcs would be required for some feats, that i will ask on that calc request thread for them

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    • @DMUA

      Okay. That feat can probably be applied then.

      @BlackDarkness

      Okay. Thank you for helping out. Please summarise what was agreed about the BV movie.

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    • Well to be accepted as part of the canon given the movie its acknowledged, as such feats from it and other stuff can be used out of it, thats pretty much it

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    • Okay. As long as it is officially part of the main canon that should be fine.

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    • I agree with the possible High 6-A/Tag 2 revisions.

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    • Alright a few more would be needed and its all good for that as well

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    • I agree with High 6-A as well

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    • I of course agree.

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    • So is this enough approval, or should somebody ask a few staff members as well?

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    • I think its enough imo unless you think otherwise Ant

      Well in that case we are finished with BV movie and Tag 2 topics

      Next step is to get some calcs done for some feats now for more supporting proof in any case

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    • I do not mind.

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    • Well then some calcs are left then to do

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    • Okay.

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    • Speaking of calcs and feats, I was wondering how the hell Nancy-MI847J was 80 tons heavy. Don't you guys think that's a little bit too much? I mean the robot should only be around 15-40 tons I think(I mean judging it by it's size and all)? While I'm exactly aware that the lifting strength scaling would be drastically downgraded due to this, I think this feat(https://youtu.be/82uRNGeE_tk , Jinpachi lifting a gigantic rock or something) would do as a compensation. And even an upgrade could be possible if this was calced.

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    • So I demand a proper calc to NANCY-MI847J's weight, the Raven lifting feat, and the TK5 DR Jinpachi feat.

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    • Nancy is said on tekken wiki to be 82 tons if i remember, as for Jinpachi, you can ask a calcer for that, at the moment i gotta take care of other feats i asked of and so on

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    • I can't find it on Tekken Wiki. Can you give me the link?

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    • What is left to do here?

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    • The calcs i requested to see their results before doing any changes, all can do is wait

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    • The Web Adventurer wrote: I can't find it on Tekken Wiki. Can you give me the link?

      When tekkenpedia was still around it said there, all left is from its french version https://tekken.fandom.com/fr/wiki/NANCY-MI847J

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    • So it's actually 82 tonnes, not 82 tons? Tonnes and tons are two different weight measurements. Converting 82 tonnes to tons would be 90.3 tons.

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    • @BlackDarkness679

      You can ask a few calc group members directly for help if you wish. Just avoid bothering DMUA, as he has been very overworked.

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    • Ok.

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    • The Web Adventurer wrote: So it's actually 82 tonnes, not 82 tons? Tonnes and tons are two different weight measurements. Converting 82 tonnes to tons would be 90.3 tons.

      Tonnes in french translates to tons, its 82 tons

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    • Ok

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    • https://youtu.be/hfNlRan_lfI

      Yoshimitsu in this ending dodges a laser, which goes in straight line, reflects of the sword and it shows colors of light in 1-2 shots

      Is it good enough to be counted as being light? Yoshimitsu is already Sub-Relativistic casually

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    • Nope, I don't think so.

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    • I will wait for more opinions to this one

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    • You can check here: Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats

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    • I checked and it fits the criteria of reflecting from something and coming from a realistic source, the weapon he carries

      Dont see it to fall under anything that dismisses it on that page

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    • I suppose that it is probably fine then.

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    • It needs a calc or something if its accepted now?

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    • Yes.

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    • the feat is non-canon, Tekken Tag 2 is not canon

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    • We discussed already above about tag 2 and was accepted, so dont come here without knowing what you talking please, i had enough of these users with no profile pics showing up randomly here

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    • stop being so fucking disrespectful already to anyone who opposes your upgrades already . You dont own this place, I'm freely allowed to criticise or agree with a CRT, just like everyone else. I dont need a profile pic in order to participate on this wiki, that's just ridicolous, VSBW is not a social media site or a dating site. 

      As for the thread, care to list me the reason you think Tekken Tag is canon? Where is the proof of this? All that was discussed about that in this thread was:"Considering there were multiple flashbacks of Tekken Blood Vengeance and Tekken Tag 2 events during Tekken 7's story, I support feats and scaling from them being taken into consideration as well." which is hardly evidence for anything.   There are plenty of evidence as for why Tekken Tag 1 and Tekken Tag 2 are non-canon such as:

      - Ogre was killed in Tekken 3 by Jin, yet appears in Tekken Tag 1 and in Tekken Tag 2.

      - Jinpatchi was killed by Jin in Tekken 5, yet appears in Tekken Tag 2.

      - Kazuya didnt appear in any Tekken tournament between Tekken 2 and Tekken 4, as frequently stated in the series, yet he appeared in Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanation given.

      - Jun was dead before Tekken 3, yet appears in Tekken Tag 1 and Tekken Tag 2, with 0 explanation given.

      - Baek was hospitalized by Ogre prior to Tekken 3, until Tekken 5, which is why he didnt appear in Tekken 3 and 4, yet he appears in Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanation given?

      - Raven was wounded by Dragonuv during Tekken 6, which is why he doesnt appear in Tekken 7.

      I could go on and on. There are too many continuity errors for Tekekn Tag 1 and Tag 2 to be canon, and 0 evidence that supports it being canon. Tekken Tag has never been stated or implied to be canon. Tekken Tag 1 and Tag 2 are games that are made to ignore continuity, and bring every character from the series in 1 game. This is why there are no mentions of any event of Tekken Tag 1 and 2 in any other Tekken game.

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    • Is the laser feat derived from a non-canon source?

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    • @doorinthehouse

      The tag games have no story to say they contradict anything just because the characters you said appeared, even in tekken 7 someone like Kazumi appears in the game yet she is dead before tekken 1, are you gonna complain of that too now and call the gane non canon cuz she is in the game?None of the characters mentioned return lore wise from dead, they are put in the game like Kazumi(what if)

      Tekken 7 has flashbacks from tag 2 and others like julia wrestler persona jaycee which is from tag 2 only said there, if they are shown along past tekken games it means they are acknowledged to have events of it happen

      Also Dragunov didnt wound Raven, neither is Jun dead(said by Harada to be missing only)

      Im not disrespectful to anyone here, you on the other hand though....also i cant take no profile pics accounts seriously when they are just newly made accounts that come to complain for 2-3 things and never return any soon at all after

      @ant

      Its from tag 2 but it was already discussed above if its ok and asked knowledgable members about it be taken in consideration for canon given the series shows about it

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    • Okay. What are the arguments for and against its canonicity, in summary?

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    • @BlackDarkness679 

      You were disrespectful to not just me, but also that other guy that were criticising a calc.

      Kazumi's apperance in Tekken 7 is explained by Harada to be her ghost , so you're wrong about that. There is an actual explanation for her appearance in T7, unlike many characters in Tekken Tag . Tekken 7 can have as many flashback from Tekken Tag 2 as they want, doesnt change how non canon it is, Dragunov did wound Raven, watch Dragonov's ending in T6 and play as Master Raven in Tekken 7.

      Master Raven mentions Dragunov being the reason Raven is absent at Tekken 7, I dont give a fuck if you cant take no profile pics, I dont post on VSBW to satisfy you, my account was made months ago, what did I complain about? Why do I need to return soon? Who do you think you are?

      @Antvasima my arguments against canoncity are various continuity erros, such as many characters being present in Tekken Tag that died long before them , and characters that were stated to be too injured to enter T3 & T4 somehow entering Tekken Tag 1 with 0 explanations.

      Blackdarkness679 argument for canoncitty is that there where flashback from Tekken Tag 1 and Tag 2 in the Tekken 7 story mode + Julia is mentioned to be a wrestler on the Tekken 7 official site, something that was only ever mentioned before T7 in Tekken Tag 2.

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    • @Antvasima BlackDarkness679 argument for canoncity is the same as people saying that the Dragon Ball Z anime is canon to Dragon Ball Super and the original Dragon Ball manga, because a few flashback from the Z anime appeared in Dragon Ball Super, but obviously that does not make Z-anime canon to Super.

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    • Okay. That does sound unreliable, yes.

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    • @BlackDarkness679

      You need to make an effort to be more calm when trying to get your point across. Saying someone's opinion is stupid or that you can't take them seriously just because they don't have any profile pic doesn't help you, nor your point. Thank you.

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    • @dootinmyhouse

      You came here cursing and talking shit buddy dont try to twist it, between us you started and act like you are a big deal, your opinion which is exactly like i said plus more



      Dragunov didnt wound Raven, first of all Dragunov in his ending had to capture Azazel which didnt happen, Jin killed him and fought Azazel, Raven was in the desert where his team found Jin, nothing with Dragunov, M Raven says he was the guy giving Raven trouble, not that he wounded him nor the reason why she is there instead of him, debunked here



      Tag 1 and Tag 2 has no story at all unlike the others, just endings and thats it, so you saying it contradicts the others based on nothing is utterly wrong, flashbacks in the main game story of T7 shows events in past, if those were non canon they wouldnt have showed them, events that didnt happen shouldnt be shown then, the fact they do proves some things happened in canon



      Jaycee which was a thing for Tag 2 is mentioned in her story for entering in the tournament in T7 and DLC=/=non canon, this is just a lame attempt of disproving, Dark649 which worked the most of this verse has in his blog there things from tag 2 and tag 1 counted for the canon of the series and he has more knowledge then you 100% on Tekken



      The dead characters appearing in both tag games doesnt affect anything, there is no story for in these games as i said and they werent said to be back in canon or anything, there is no error at all, they are "what ifs" in them, which anyone can tell easily

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    • The knowledgable members on Tekken agreed with it when u asked them, told them the deal about it too, your single vote against it doesnt change anything, especially with flawed arguments and acting like a jerk and personal head canon

      Dragon ball canonicity isnt the same as Tekken bad comparison and reffering or acknowledging something in canon that was thought non canon before means that the events there happened not to mention if they integrate things from it to the canon too like Jaycee 

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    • you cant insult and be condescending to someone and then whine like a toddler when a person starts cursing, that's not how it works buddy.  I didnt start shit, how delusional are you?

      How does Dragonuv finding azazel contradict Jin killing him? Do you think Jin took Azazel with him? Dragonuv didnt capture Azazel, all he did was find its dead body. Why do you think Raven isnt in T7? We see Dragonuv and Raven's interaction only in Dragonov and Raven's ending.

      Tag 1 and Tag 2 do have stories, and lol, now you're contradicting yourself, if they have no story then how is anything from Tag 1 or 2 supposed to be canon to T7? What do you think those flashbacks are a part of?

      If there is no story in Tag 1 & 2, then how the fuck is the story of  Tag 1 or Tag 2 supposed to be canon to Tekken 7? You are not making any sense. If they are "what ifs" then guess what, THEY ARE NOT CANON. Do you know what "canon" means? 

      JayCee first appeared in Tag 2, yes, so what? Does that make every event in Tag 2 canon? No it doesnt, again, for the same reason Z isnt canon to Dragon Ball Super, even though Super has flashbacks from Z.  

      Learn what an analogy is, I never said Dragon Ball canoncity is the same as Tekken's. Read my analogy again.

      And you're telling me that I'm acting like a jerk, even though you are the one who started insulting me for no reason? Are you being for real?

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    • Can both of you please calm down and handle this discussion in a more respectful manner please?

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    • sure

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    • I agree with AKM Sama and Antvasima, everyone needs to stop attacking each other, if it persists, we may need to take action.

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    • The only thing the tag games have are openings and endings, there is no story mode at all in these, what contradictions you gonna have from them huh? 



      Never said all endings in them are canon, as much as not all endings in the main games are either, not hard to see which are fine for use and which arent, in T7 they shows few scenes from the tag games that they have, as well as they do for the main games the same in the flashbacks, meaning tag 1 and 2 are part of the canon (with what can be counted for the series), if you cant even understand that i dont have anything else to how stubborn you are on this head canon of yours



      Kage, Gill, Akuma appeared in SF5 as DLC with their own story in this installment, you will claim them non canon cuz they are DLC? Julia story says her deal in T7, as much any character in the game, its no different from Paul, Bob or Yoshimitsu story in the game, Anna story ties with Nina, you will say its non canon too just cuz she was added later as new content?



      DLC=/=non canon and guest characters(except Akuma) are never considered canon, they are guests for a reason, they dont change or have any deal with the series they get in, not only you compare two entirely different things(a legacy character and guest one) you also insist strictly on your own personal opinion that she shouldnt count just cuz you say so



      What ifs are the characters that arent present during the intervals of games or which are dead, clearly you didnt read at all, even then, Ogre ending in tag 2 shows him causing destruction what its contradicting here?it doesnt say he is alive beyond T3 or affects anything in the lore its just him destroying stuff there, thats all in it, no different then Feng ending in T6 where he destroys a ball of lava, it affects anything?No



      The temple crumbled down after the Jin killed Azazel, Dragunov in his ending shows the temple still intact, also whats proof to say his body was still intact afterwards?None at all, his ending implies he beat him which didnt happen and Raven when he arrives and finds Jin body, there is no temple anymore, you will tell me he somehow got to Dragunov after there is nothing left? In T7 we even see Raven with Jin body there in the story nowhere implies he got hurt by Dragunov

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    • I talked with the knowledgable members of the series, told them the deal with this, if they agree with all this and asked Ant here too if its all good 



      You just come here start to speak agressively, use curse words like f***ing and what not, use Cap Locks for more agressive talk and you started this, all i told you from start is dont talk if you dont know what was discussed comments ago and that i had it with users that just come to point something they think its wrong and then they dont return after, where i was rude or insulted you there huh?You started and you keep continuing

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    • Endings are a story, every game before Tekken 4 only had openings and endings, are you saying every game before Tekken 4 didnt have a story ???? No ending in Tekken Tag are canon, a few flashbacks being present in T7 does not make the game canon, when the appearance of several characters make 0 sense and is never explained at any point. If Kage, Gill and Akuma dont have any mention in the story mode of SF5 then their appearance is non canon, yes.

      Julia is only mentioned on the Tekken website, never in the game, same with every other non-canon DLC character.  Ogre is dead before Tekken Tag 2, anything he does in Tekken Tag 2 is a contradiction to Tekken 3. His ending is non-canon as well. It was stated Jin killed Ogre back in Tekken 4 and in Tekken 6, yet he appears in Tag 2?.

      Feng didnt die in Tekken 5 or 6, so since his ending and his appearance doesnt contradict anything, it's fine to apply the feat +  his T5 ending was mentioned in T6.



      Antvasima said that he agrees with me, after I presented to him my reasoning for not having Tekken Tag as canon. You were the one insulting me after I made my first post https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3729859#127

      Why do I need to return after? You are not makign any sense

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    • Same debunked arguments, from now on i will preted you dont exist, you are a waste of time and stubborn individual



      Also the website is official one with news and what not, a story is a story wheter in the game or not



      His tag 2 ending i explained already, you just ignored it im not gonna repeat again



      Your opinion on the flashbacks ammounts to 0, tag games had no story in it, most of the story in the main games were in the old manuals tag has none 



      You insulted after, dont try to lie and pretend you didnt



      There is no rule a character needs to appear in the story mode, made up head canon rules dont apply cuz you say so, literally no one will agree with you if you said these 3 characters in SF are non canon cuz you claim so



      Only one with no sense is you, think all you want, you wont change anything

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    • @Ant 

      One thing for you, as you did this in other threads too, i know you probably wont remember all threads in which you are present and what was discussed in each, but please dont just say yes to every little thing pro or counter pro for everything, same thing you did for Matthew in DMC threads were you said yes to all his stuff while others proved his arguments null or when he was the only one against the revisions



      None of things @dootinmyhouse said to you have any relevance or proves him right, as these things were adressed and discussed long ago, all he does is bringing old stuff



      Tag 2 is refferenced in the main story and to one of his characters it says a thing that only in tag 2 it existed, that shows the game at least is part of canon with certain things

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    • you have yet to explain to me why we should accept Tag 2 as canon despite all the dozens of continuity errors it has, such as Ogre + Jun being boss characters in Tag 2 despite being dead for years before the game . You are claiming T7 using flashbacks from Tag 1+2 means both games are canon, yet DBZ anime isnt canon to DBS anime despite also using flashbacks from the Z anime. How do they differ?

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    • Saying tag games dont have a story, only opening and endings is the same as saying T1,T2 & T3 dont have a story because they too only have opening and endings. This obiovusly is not the case.

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    • DBZ anime shows what manga shown too, whats so hard to understand?It didnt show anything the manga hadnt, it shown the fights with Vegeta, Frieza, Cell and Buu recap of the Z series how is this counter proof?

      Ogre and Jun as bosses dont mean anything, any game has bosses, also i said this a lot and so Harada, Jun isnt dead

      It has no errors....STOP using made up stuff! The dead/missing characters are just what ifs there and there is no story for why a tag tournament happens or anything either

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    • Talking to a wall here, simply just gonna pretend you arent here, your beyond ridiculous with your non sense and head canon

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    • So the Z anime isnt canon because it doesnt show stuff the manga didnt? Did you forget about Gregory? Gregory never appeared in the manga, only in the DBZ anime, yet he also appears in Dragon Ball Super. So by your logic, that would make the Z anime canon to Super, yet it isnt. Kazuya , the narrator and Heihachi all state in several games that Kazuya did not appear in any tournament from Tekken 2- Tekken 4,  meaning he could not had entered Tekken Tag 1, it doesnt matter if a 1 second flashback shows otherwise. Tekken Tag Tournament is never once mentioned in any other Tekken game, yet you want me to believe that the tournament did take place??  You're right, the dead/missing characters are what ifs, but so is Jack 6's endings and everyone else's because the entire Tekken Tag game is a what if.

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    • oh yeah forgot to ask, care to show when Tekken Tag's canoncity was brought up a long time ago? Because you keep mentioning it, yet dont link the thread.

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    • @BlackDarkness

      You need to make a serious effort to immediately stop with the insults. Doorinmyhouse is currently trying to get you banned and has people agreeing with him. If you continue, you will likely be removed. This goes for your future behaviour as well.

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    • Can somebody experienced summarise the arguments here?

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    • Antvasima wrote: @BlackDarkness

      You need to make a serious effort to immediately stop with the insults. Doorinmyhouse is currently trying to get you banned and has people agreeing with him. If you continue, you will likely be removed. This goes for your future behaviour as well.

      What insults have i said after AKM or anyone? In none of them after i said any insults, also is it gonna ignored what he says in his?

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    • You made some (in my opinion not particularly severe) insults to Doorinmyhouse, and also have a previous warning. As I said, you need to shape up quickly or other staff members might ban you.

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    • I dont see any insults after AKM told me or the others, but anyway, not gonna take that guy seriously here anymore after all his popr attempts ar denying

      Also i told you a bit above about the deal with tag Ant, all he says against it has no relevance and others knowledgable already said yes including you before he came here

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    • Well, just try to keep a polite tone to stay out of trouble, both here and in other threads.

      Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, a summary would be appreciated here.

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    • Tekken 7 story shows flashbacks of previous events from games (which includes tag and tag 2), meaning they are considered part of canon with some of its stuff, not saying literally everything in them is canon, since even in the main games not everything is either, but at least they are acknowledged of existing


      The tag games have no story so they dont add anything contradictory, they got only openings and endings, Dark649 which is one of knowledgable members of this series that worked the most has it in his blog he made of the verse, things from both tag games counted for canon, the tag 1 opening and some tag 2 endings if i remember


      A character in Tekken 7 in her story its said a thing that only in tag 2 it exists, more to support of the tag game existing in the series for its canon


      The guy only counters are missing or dead characters appearing in these, yet nowhere says they are back in canon, they are added there as what ifs, which other fighters do too in their games, plus we ignore most games endings even from the canon titles as some are what ifs


      Thats why i proposed way back in this thread for the tag games to be considered part of canon and the endings that dont contradict anything and are fine should be used

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    • I tried to keep it as short as i can

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    • Well, if Dark649 considered it as canon, it should hopefully be fine.

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    • can someone tell him to argue for canonicty in this thread? or the other one

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    • Dark is inactive since october, i tried to contact him many times since then, you aint gonna get a reply from him

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    • ok, who else is a knowledgeable member that are argue for Tag's canoncity?

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    • Alrighty. I don't have time to read the FULL thread. But I'll just give my own full take on it. So sorry if some things have already been discussed and covered.

      The Tag games have never been confirmed as non-canon. It has always just been assumed because of its side-game or spin-off nature. Flashbacks of it, as well as Tekken Blood Vengeance (which is half-canon, confirmed by the series director. Whatever half-canon means lol.) So I say it should be usable. Especially since Kazuya's devil form in the final battle also resembles a form EXCLUSIVELY used in Blood Vengeance and an early build of Tekken Tag Tournament 2. (Known as Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Prologue.)

      As for the DLC characters in Tekken 7, Julia's story calls back to Jaycee (Her wrestling persona which has ONLY existed in Tekken Tag Tournament 2.) These characters, as well as new original ones like Leroy and Fahkumram are likely to appear in Tekken 8, bringing their stories with them. Plus canon DLC isn't unheard of. Asura's Wrath had it, Kingdom Hearts just got some, so it should at least be taken into consideration.

      Now as for Tekken Tag 2 specifically... Dead, deceased, or missing characters appearing in it doesn't really contradict anything. Heihachi Mishima appeared and was playable in Tekken 5 despite canonically being in a coma and absent during the events of the game due to his injuries from the JACK explosion in the intro. Heihachi being YOUNG in Tag 2 is even explained in his own ending there. He's just drinking some youth formula or whatever.

      Everything that could be seen as contradictory in Tag 2 has some sort of silly little explanation for it. And there are even some bits of actual canon lore and character expansion that began in Tag 2 and expanded to the main canon with Tekken 7. Like Leo and Steve's stories, as well as Julia's like I previously mentioned.

      IN CONCLUSION - Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is canon. There are multiple elements that began with it, which then got carried over into the main canon that still acknowledge their origins in Tag 2. Especially with characters and their stories. Also it's never been confirmed as non-canon.

      Compare it to like Kingdom Hearts X or something (The browser/mobile game.). Not a numbered title in the series, and doesn't have an actual story. But it IS canon as it reveals and details essential parts of the story and lore which are key and necessary to putting the plot together in Kingdom Hearts 3 and other games.

      This is essentially what Tekken Tag Tournament 2 does as well. So story and endings from it should definitely be included as long as it doesn't contradict anything in the main canon. Just like the endings of every Tekken game. For example, Leo and Steve are fine obviously, Jack 6 should be good, Lars, Xiaoyu, Alisa, etc. Lots of these characters have their own little lore bits and character expansions that either stand on their own, or connect to what happens in Tekken 7 WITHOUT contradicting anything before or after. And stuff like True Ogre or Jinpachi showing up even though they are deceased, can simply be shrugged off on their own without dragging the whole game down with them. Just as Heihachi was present and playable in Tekken 5 despite his absence in the story.

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    • Heihachi not appearing in Tekken 5 is a plothole or retcon, because his storymode in Tekken 5 very clearly states that he does enter the tournament 1 month after being blasted by Jack 5's, they just changed his story in T6 to say he was in a coma for 1 week and never entered. A retcon is hardly the same as a continuity error.  

      And how does Tekken Tag's canoncity differ from DBZ and DBS? Dragon Ball Super has a character that only appears in the Z anime, Gregory, but that does not mean Z is canon to Super. And no, not everything that could be seen as contradictory in tag 2 has a silly explanation, far from it. 

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    • Leopold seems to make sense to me.

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    • Same

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    • Doorinmyhouse wrote: Heihachi not appearing in Tekken 5 is a plothole or retcon, because his storymode in Tekken 5 very clearly states that he does enter the tournament 1 month after being blasted by Jack 5's, they just changed his story in T6 to say he was in a coma for 1 week and never entered. A retcon is hardly the same as a continuity error.  

      And how does Tekken Tag's canoncity differ from DBZ and DBS? Dragon Ball Super has a character that only appears in the Z anime, Gregory, but that does not mean Z is canon to Super. And no, not everything that could be seen as contradictory in tag 2 has a silly explanation, far from it. 

      In Tekken 7, there wasn't even a tournament. Heihachi announces one, but it's cancelled. Yet many character episodes mention them joining the tournament and partaking in it. So obviously anything that has to do with a tournament should be disregarded since it never canonically happened. But stuff like Nina and Steve meeting up to discuss Steve's creation and whatnot (important plot and lore exposition) in his character episode which has nothing to do with the tournament is totally fine as none of it contradicts the fact the king of iron fist tournament 7 never happened.

      That should be applied to Tekken 5. Jin has the canon ending, so any others that contradict it (Like Heihachi's where he interacts with Jinpachi in cutscenes) should be ignored. Meanwhile someone like King who is just goofing off doing whatever should totally be fine with his ending being canon as it has nothing that contradicts Jin's.

      Plus Jin was in a coma all of Tekken 7, yet is still playable. No retcons there. That's just how it is. He even shows up in Miguel's ending.

      As for DBZ/DBS, The DBZ anime was CONFIRMED non canon. So Gregory in Super is nothing more than just a plot error. Tekken Tag 2 again, has NEVER been confirmed non canon. People just assume it is. Also, none of Super's plot points and lore are locked behind Z's anime, where as many characters stories in Tekken 7 are reliant on what goes down in Tag 2. Steve especially since his is pretty much a direct continuation where he's searching up more about his past.

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    • @Leopold

      So what should we do here?

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    • We should use the endings or scenes from tag games that arent contradicting anything from canon and ignoring those that do

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    • Okay. That seems fine.

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    • I will try to ask someone to calc some feats though before doing anything

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    • Antvasima wrote: @Leopold

      So what should we do here?

      Yeah pretty much just treat it like every other game in the series. Include all the standalone endings that don't contradict anything in the main story.

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    • Okay then.

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    • Well Yoshimitsu speed feat was calculated, if its accepted it would upgrade the verse speed by quite a lot

      Im waiting for another feat for AP to be done now and then changes can be applied to the profiles

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    • Okay.

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    • Waiting evaluation on the feat

      On other matters Jack 6 has a feat with a meteor which is the same that killed the dinos (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chicxulub_Impact_Event), Mishimas can one shot squads of these in later games so its fine to have them upscale from that? The value there is 310 for the meteor and the high end of that tier starts at 430

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    • Geez why all of them? Also i asked before if upscaling is fine for a different feat

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    • Not all of them, just a few.

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    • So i need to ask them if its okay to upscale from that?

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    • You can ask a few discussion moderators to help out here in general. I am very distracted at the moment.

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    • Alright, i will

      Also DMUA said the speed calc should be good, does it needs more input or its good to go?

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    • Alright, time to take a look at this. Don't know much about this, but I think I can help.

      So, if I understand correctly, a robot character destroyed a meteor as big as the one that killed the dinosaurs, and there are characters who are capable of one-shotting this robot. The feat of the meteor killing the dinosaurs is 310 teratons, and the upper limit of the tier is 430 teratons. Are you asking if we can use the one-shotting to bring them to the next tier via scaling?

      First, and most importantly, destroying the meteor itself probably warrants a calculation (since destroying the meteor via certain methods would likely result in at least a slightly different joule value than the impact it caused when it killed the dinosaurs).

      Second, I don't think we can bring them to higher tiers via scaling here. We use the 7.5x AP advantage as being a "one-shot" here on the wiki; but that is only for Versus Debates. In fiction, depending on how it is depicted, the AP advantage needed to one-shot could easily be anywhere between 1.1x to 500x. As such, I don't think we can simply bump them up a tier on the basis of one-shotting characters who are close to the upper limit. Perhaps "At least Large Country level, likely higher" would be more appropriate?

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    • The robot went and gave it a good solid blow and destroyed it, he didnt do it by chain reaction, the character is fodder compared to most, even to a mid and upper tier, top tiers and god tiers are vastly above everyone

      Not next tier but like from large country to large country+ given the scaling chain

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    • Well, again, the feat of actually destroying it would need to be calced, as I'm not certain if it would yield the same energy as the meteor strike.

      Either way though, with this in mind (and assuming the current energy yield is accurate) something along the lines of "At least Large Country level, likely higher" should be perfectly acceptable if the character is fodderised.

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    • DarkGrath makes sense to me. Thank you for helping out.

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    • BlackDarkness679 wrote:

      Also DMUA said the speed calc should be good, does it needs more input or its good to go?

      Can you link to it here please?

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    • Yeah, pretty much what DarkGrath said. Destroying the meteor itself that destroyed the dinosaurs != the impact that the meteor made. So first and foremost you would need a calc for that feat and go from there.

      And even if the calc is the same yield it'd be a lot better to give them a rating of "At least High 6-B, likely higher". It's still a difference of over a 100 Teratons so I don't feel comfortable giving them a higher tier.

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    • An offsite calc for it gave a High 6-A result, but i thought its better to use the value VS Wiki has for it

      Also here Ant (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:BlackDarkness679/Tekken:_Yoshimitsu_speed_feat_calc)

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    • Also yah its still a difference of 100, but even those below top tiers and god tiers can beat the character in question

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    • ok, so as i understand it, as long as a game/ series hasnt been confirmed non canon, we can assume it's canon? Ok, noted. @BlackDarkness Yoshimitusu feat is non canon, because Yoshimitsu does not kill Bryan ever, his laser feat cant be used.

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    • also here is Jack 6's ending in TT2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-aP0UOKzz8

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    • @BD679

      It is probably fine to use the calculation.

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    • @antvasima, i thought only stuff that doesnt contradict the story was allowed to be used? In the ending, Yoshimitsu kills Bryan, which obviously contradicts Bryan's story in T7 were he is never mentioned to have been killed. 

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    • We also used endings like Yoshi outrunning and reacting to the minigun bullets too where pretty much Yoshi does the same, its not out of the real of possibility

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    • @Ant

      Got the other calc for AP too, this would support Mountain level in case the Jack 6 one in the future gets disregarded ever

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    • Ok, so now you're telling me that you use every ending, including endings that contradict the story?? As Leopold said :" story and endings from it should definitely be included as long as it doesn't contradict anything in the main canon." 

      So basically every ending can be used, including endings that obviously contradict the main canon? Why not use just use every non-canon feat at this point then?

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    • I didnt say all of them could be used and once again, a feat of Yoshi were he dodges and outrun minigun bullets was considered for use as well by Dark649 when he was still helping with the verse, even though in that ending he slices Bryan too

      And other verses btw like DMC series did too, where it has contradictory things to the canon but are ignored and focus on the those that dont affect anything

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    • I will get the AP calc posted on a blog too from the guy who did Yoshimitsu speed feat and get evaluation for that too and will ask him another time for jack 6 feat a calc, he has other calcs to do now so i dont wanna bother him since it did enough with those i requested

      So till then i will apply those accepted, use new renders for Heihachi and Kazuya last keys(the current ones are bad in quality) and anything else needed

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    • But you and everyone else in this thread told me several times we can only use feats that dont contradict the canon, but now you're telling me we can use anything regardless? If you used a feat previously where Yoshi cut Bryan, that just means that you did something werong ever since back then. Seriously, are you telling me that every ending can be used, including an ending where Ling Xiyaoyu beats up Heihachi? Or Wang kills Azazel? Can we now scale Ling Xiayu and Wang to Tekken Top tiers?

      You are not making sense, you are saying we do the same for DMC, but clearly you dont because you ignore the ednings that contradict the canon.

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    • DMC has a novel which claims a guy that fights Dante its his brother Vergil, yet his brother was actually made a minion for Mundus, yet that part is ignored and anything else from there is used

      Also no, cuz Ling and Wang arent comparable to those they beat in there and Ling ending im sure its just for comic relief, there is clear power levels between these instances

      Things like Law defeating Jinpachi and the like cant be used at all, also some endings can be half canon only, like Feng ending in 5, he gets the scroll he was looking for as we see in 6, but didnt beat Jinpachi as the endings showed, so half of that is canon, same can be applied too for Yoshimitsu in that case, ignoring the part he slices him and it wasnt me who used that other one for Yoshimitsu, Dark649 was when he made a previous revision and nothing was wrong with that

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    • Literally the only reason we ignore Ling and Wang's ending is because they contradict the canon story, yet here you are telling me that it's okay for us to ignore the fact that Yoshi's ending also contradict the  story? Why cant things like Law defeating Jinpachi be used, but Yoshi killing Bryan can, when both are equally contradictory? Feng ending can be used because it doesnt contradict anything, Feng was stated to have found the scroll in T6, so his ending is confirmed to be canon, nothing in Yoshi's ending in TT2 has been confirmed to be canon.  We know for a fight Yoshi didnt kill Bryan so it's impossible for his ending to be canon.


      Using Yoshi's ending goes against everything Leopold said previously in this thread, Yoshimutsu's FTL feat is not applied at all to his profiles, i have no clue what you are talking about. If Dark649 did apply all it means he was wrong to do so

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    • I am not sure how we should handle the endings, if they contradict other parts of the story.

      You can ask a few of the following staff members to help out with giving input here if you wish:

      Promestein, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokistan, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, The Calaca, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSan, DarkGrath, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

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    • There is no need to ask any of them for such a thing, this is just getting again in circles again over things that should be understood but are argued only to for the sake of it

      No he wasnt wrong at all, also i gave you an example above of such a case from another series and Street Fighter does the same too for a feat that gives a speed feat for certain characters despite having a part there that to you wouldnt be aplicable

      That FTL feat is nothing wrong to be used, also told you why those like Law or Wang cant

      Leopold used endings like that Yoshi one btw in his videos for fights when he was doing them, so that point you quote from him is irrelevant

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    • Okay. I suppose that it should probably be fine then.

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    • How is that quote irrelevant? Since when does Street Fighter do this? So what you are saying is that any feat from any ending regardless of the circumstances, can be applied? Throughout this thread you have been telling me that it's okay to use feats from TTT even if the game was non canon, as long as the ending arent contradicting anything, but now you're telling me that you can use any feat regardless if they contradict the canon story? We arent going in circles, YOU are going completely against everything you previously said in this thread, as well as the arguments other people brought up for TTT's feats.

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    • what was all that about Tekken Tag being canon because some stuff in T7 was only ever brought up in TTT1 + 2, when you just resort to using endings that straight up go completely against the canon story anyway? why not  use feats from Street Fighter X Tekken as well

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    • Check out Street Fighter page for Bison, he gets MHS+ from a calc in an ending which to your opinion shouldnt be used if we follow your logic, nobody had anything against it and its accepted

      I gave the example with DMC too, which once again by your opinion shouldnt be used cuz you say so

      Earlier you didnt even were in agreement for tag games to be counted at all, now all of a sudden after a long time passed since then you are now cool with it, after how many comments to be told at you

      You didnt help with anything here, you just go in circles and argue things that shouldnt be argued in the first place and caused only problems, if you have something that actually contributes to the series in any way then thats appreciated, if not then dont

      SF X Tekken is a non canon crossover stop

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    • @Doorinmyhouse

      Please drop this subject, as it has been argued to death already, and it is preventing us from getting anything constructive done here.

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    • @Antvasima  what the norm has been for years in VSBW is to use any Ending in Tekken as long as they dont contradict the canon story.

      This is even what Leopold and many other has said repeatedly in this thread and in other threads, , heck YOU even agreed with him when he said this exact thing not 2 weeks ago , so no I'm not going to drop anything. I'm not arguing for something new, how is repeating something that has already been established for years arguing something to death exactly????



      @BlackDarkness679 Do you have any proof the game is non canon, was it confirmed? Just like with TTT , even if it has many contradicting plot holes, as long as the game hasnt been confirmed non canon, we cant claim that it is. What happens in Bison's ending that contradicts the canon story of Street Fighter? 

      Why does it matter if I agree with counting Tag games as canon after a long time, am I supposed to never change my opinion no matter what? I find it extremely weird that you kept arguing to use any feat for TTT as long as they dont contradict the canon story, only to do a complete 360 and use endings that contradict the canon story anyway.

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    • That ending with the feat for Bison has Chun Li defeating him, which she never did or even Dhalsim destroying a satellite with power to nuke a city in his ending after beating Bison too, but we ignore these things and focus on the feats they have there, same can be done with Yoshi and which was done before with his other feat where he outruns bullets

      You are just going in circles with this, as i said if you cant help and you just complain over every thing then please drop it

      I could have used Jinpachi killing Heihachi or Combot wrecking the Mishimas endings by your last claim in your comment, yet i didnt, the only things i used from tag 2 was just 2 feats, one of which you make a way too big deal of it

      SF x T is a crossover, no crossover is canon unless stated to be so or acknowledged as such like how Mortal kombat vs DC game is in injustice and MK games are or Marvel and DC with theirs, SF x T aint one, which is why Akuma in tekken is treated as a different character compared to his original

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    • Ok, so what im getting from this is that every ending, no matter how contradicting it is, can be used, if it is from a canon game? Then what was the point of people, like Leopold and yourself, saying that  a feat can be used only if it doesnt contradict the canon story? 

      I still dont get why Wang's ending's cant be used, so what if it contradicts the story of Tekken 6 and Tekken 7, so does Yoshimitsu's but that can be used apparantly?  What are the standards for when an ending can and cant be used?

      why arent crossovers considered canon, since stuff like dozens of continuity errors have 0 relavance as to whether a spin-off game is canon ? 

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    • Antvasima wrote: @Doorinmyhouse

      Please drop this subject, as it has been argued to death already, and it is preventing us from getting anything constructive done here.

      I'll step in here real quick. I PERSONALLY do not believe the Yoshimitsu ending should be counted. Because he kills Brian in it, which contradicts canon. I know some other verses are wonky and allow it somehow, but two wrongs don't make a right.

      This Jack 6 feat however, should absolutely be considered. Although he dies, this does NOT contradict canon as Jack models are mass-produced. This could literally be any Jack 6 model out there. They are fodder and pretty much the base of what most characters in the verse can scale to. Characters like the Mishima's can one-shot them, while lesser characters like King are still capable of defeating them in battle. So Jack 6 shattering a meteor 6 miles in diameter here should 100% be looked into for the rest of the cast.
      Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - 'Jack-6 Ending' TRUE-HD QUALITY-1

      Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - 'Jack-6 Ending' TRUE-HD QUALITY-1

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    • As for a SPEED feat. If you're really looking for something FTL. Tekken 2 has something for you. While it's quite odd, not deaths or plot contradicting events occur here.

      Heihachi here outpaces the already sub-relativistic Devil Beam by a significant amount with his own movement speed. This should definitely yield a substantial speed buff if it's looked into.
      Tekken 2 Kazuya Ending-0

      Tekken 2 Kazuya Ending-0

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    • Doubtful you can get FTL from sub rel lasers

      Also if Tekken cant use that feat, other verses then should be called out on them, as this is just not fair others allow it while others not

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    • Doorinmyhouse wrote:

      why arent crossovers considered canon, since stuff like dozens of continuity errors have 0 relavance as to whether a spin-off game is canon ? 

      Because crossovers are inconsistent, unless you wanna think Luffy from One Piece is in the same league as Goku since they had a crossover episode and is just a special episode, crossovers are never canon

      You just bring up irrelevant stuff and dont contribute with anything

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    • Crossovers should almost never be used, yes.

      Anyway, since we do not seem to get anywhere here, I would appreciate if Leopold or BlackDarkness could write a summary of what we need to evaluate here right now, and then ask some of the following staff members to comment here:

      Promestein, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokistan, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, The Calaca, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSan, DarkGrath, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

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    • At the moment the only issue is that the feat cant be used cuz it has a part thats contradictory, yet other franchises like Street Fighter and Devil May Cry does the same and perhaps more others probably and no one said anything about them in theur respective threads

      So either those franchises exclude these things as well or the speed calc is accepted, its unfair if other verses can count certain things while others not, plus that would feel like favoritism if we gonna just treat similar cases entirely different instead of the same

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    • Well, it depends on if the ending is intended to be consistent with their regular power levels.

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    • @BlackDarkness679 


      how can you say I bring up irrelevant stuff or dont contribute to anything, or keep going in circles, when all I'm doing is bring up stuff that you and everyone else keep telling me??? Sorry If I care about consistency, If other series like  DMC or SF uses contradicting feats, then that simply means that they shouldnt. however decided to do that was wrong to do so. And you have still to explain why we can ignore some feats that completely contradict the story, but not others.

      @ LeopoldTheBrave

      Pretty sure using the speed of his laser in T7 to calc the speed of Heihachi in T2 is calc stacking, which is not allowed.

      @Antvasima I agree with Leopold that feats like Jack-6's ending should be used, because it contradicts nothing, but disagree that Yoshimitusu's feat should be used because he kills Bryan in it which he never does in the canon story.

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    • Excuse me but what you done here ever since you replied the first time in the thread @doorinmyhouse? Ever since you came up you spoke rudely and called names and just filled the thread with long texts on how you are against things which were adressed before or shouldnt have been argued at all

      Ever since Dark649 became inactive in October i tried to take care of the verse and so on as no one else was here to do, not once you helped with anything here, only disagreements and what it bugs you for X or Y thing

      Mods for these other verses could have easily rejected them since they participate in the threads too, Dark also used another feat from Yoshimitsu in a similar case, also some tag 1 and tag 2 things way before this thread, so that feat isnt a big deal to use, if you have issues go on and point out to these other verses as well this thing they do, i wont gonna reject that feat while others dont and they get ratings out of it, either all get the same thing or not at all

      And one last thing, endings from Ling beating Heihachi or Wang beating Azazel are inconsistent power wise, Ling and Wang dont compare to any character to imply these endings holds any weight, Yoshimitsu is depicted to be comparable to Bryan more then once and doesnt involve anything about beating a boss character or top tier like in those you gave examples

      @antvasima

      The other speed feat for the verse from which they get the rating they got now scales back to the characters early on in the series, it should be consistent since this FTL one happens waaaaay later in the series and characters by then are more powerful then at that time

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    • TL;DR

      The FTL feat would be consistent and the part that was brought up as an issue for it can be ignored easily as other franchises done with theirs

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    • `@BlackDarkness679 why do you want to do this again? you were the one who started insulting me out of nowhere, because I dont have a profile pic, stop being delusional already and let it go.

      and im not obliged to help out with anything here, why do yout think you are so entitled? you should really stop  feeling personally attacked because I happen to disagree with something you said. it has become beyond annoying at this point

      You're wrong about another thing,OgreYoshimitsu , Bryan , Paul etc get their speed scaled to Kazuya's laser's speed in T7, they dont get scaled from a feat early on in the series. Their speed is listed as sub-relativistsic, from this feat that happes in T7, which is clearly not early on in the series, the feat happens after Yoshi's feat in TT2.

      In fact, Yoshimitsu's FTL feat is 6943 times faster than the fastest speed feat in T7 from a top tier ( Devil Kazuya), so if anything, shouldnt the feat be an outlier??? Considering Yoshimitsu is mid tier, and nothing in the series comes anywhere close to that.

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    • 1) you started with this i didnt said anything offensive till you began with the cursing but whatever

      2)i didnt say you are obliged to help, yet you arguing to death things that shouldnt have been in the first place isnt needed either for your info, its wasting time in which more things could have been done instead of back and forth debating, its tiring to argue with a troublemaker that only responses are against everything without listening

      3)you are the only one wrong here, Heihachi dodges a devil laser before Tekken 1 against Kazumi when he was out of breath and characters like Paul was comparable to him back then, else he and others would have been MHS+ at best, dont try to correct me when i saw the story of T7, its early in the series as that battle happens before Tekken 1 chronologically

      4)Yoshimitsu is an upper tier, which is below top tier, not mid tier also its not outlierish at all, stop trying to argue something when you dont know the deal with it

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    • You are the only person here which keeps preventing anything to be done or discussed over irrelevant and repeated things, cause troubles over whats bothering you

      Ant already told you to drop it with your arguing in circles here especially if there is nothing relevant or helpful in anyway for the series

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    • I agree that Doorinmyhouse seems to keep this thread from ever going anywhere. It is probably best if he stops responding here.

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    • 1) stop being in delusional and stop playing the victim already

      2) yes im supposed to accept any wank argument you make at face value of course, my bad.

      3rd)

      How does Kazumi's pre-T1 laser scale to T7 sub-relativistic Kazuya, when Kazuya and everyone else got much much faster after T1, according to you?? Kazumi isnt the one with the sub-relativistic speed feat, it's T7 Kazuya, so how would pre T1 Kazumi scale to T7 Kazuya who you are saying is much faster than he was back in T1 when he beat Heihachi? it makes no sense to scale Kazumi to T7 Kazuya and then say every  T7 character including Kazuya are way faster than Heihachi who defeated Kazumi pre T1. That's circular reasoning.

      Either you are saying that Kazumi is as fast T7 Kazuya, meaning her laser is FTL, or you are saying she is slower than Kazuya, meaning you cant scale her to Kazuya.

      and @antvasima Yes Im the only one going in circles here and im the only one arguing against everything BlackDarkness is saying , so I will just let Leopold say literally the exact same thing Im currently arguing... https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3729859#215 

      Both of your reading comprehension are subpar, im literally just repeating what BlackDarkness and Leopold told me several times throughout this thread, but sure you wont hear from me again in this thread, since you are obviously incapable of comprehending BlackDarkness and Leopold's several comments from earlier in this thread.

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    • 1) im not playing anything, you came here in the first place with an agressive attitude and caused ruckus along lying as well like that i insulted someone, only so you could put in a bad light and have me blocked

      2) "wank" if i wished to wank as you claim i could have easily put the verse with way different ratings and more, all you do is lowball and just go with your vendetta hate on me

      3)all devil gene users have the same speed for the laser, something that Dark649 also said, there aint a reason to assume they have different speeds and just fir the laser attack speed, not the characters themselves and its not circular scaling, you clearly dont know whats the deal here, this was a thing established by a someone that kmows about the series unlike you

      4) already told you a million times the deal, im not gonna explain it for you again just so you can simply ignore it and have it to repeat again, also the only one with the comprehension issues is you, where long comments had to be written for time and time again

      As Ant said, stop responding here, you do not help with anything and just fill the thread with nothing other then arguments going in circles

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    • Let's move on with the discussion please. He seems to have left now.

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    • Well anyway, there is an AP calc i got too now its discussed by the calcer of it and another one whether the final result is good or not

      The tag 2 Jack 6 one is one that would need a calc too since we cant use the value on the wiki of the meteor for reference, so thats all so far

      I will update the speed and apply other changes needed till we get everything else done

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    • Okay. Thanks.

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    • So, we accept a feat from a non-canon ending now to justify this FTL BS? This ending contradicts heavily on the canon story, and thus should be null and void.

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    • We already had this discussion already, dont start it as well like the other guy....

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    • And what was the consensus exactly, why this particular non-canon feat was used? Not gonna browse the thread, looks like it's a whole lot of reading.

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    • Other verses like DMC and Street Fighter for example are in a similar case, using something that has a thing that makes it contradictory, yet those parts are ignored and its focused only at the other stuff instead, no one has said anything about those two even though they are in a similar scenario with some of their stuff, so why Tekken should be the exception to this?

      Also Dark649 which was responsible for the verse used a different feat that would fall under the same thing, didnt see anyone complain for that one either

      And in case you wanna argue its from Tag 2, it is accepted as part of canon, since the story mode of Tekken 7 acknowledges it to be part of it along elements from there being carried over as well fo a character

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    • Well, I am not certain either. Perhaps you could write a summary of the previous discussion and then ask a few of the staff members below to give input here?

      Promestein, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokistan, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, The Calaca, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSan, DarkGrath, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

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    • I’m a bit too busy to evaluate everything here right at this moment, but I’ll take a look through when I can.

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    • Thank you for helping out.

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    • Wait, wait. I'm sorry I was out for a while but, is it really okay to include BV? And which feat made the Mishimas FTL?

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    • Its not from BV movie, its from a calc from tag 2

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    • Have you asked some staff members to comment here yet?

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    • Been busy, didnt had the time to also i think we already went over this for a while now last time over the speed buff

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    • Okay. I would appreciate some input though. I am not a very good person to ask.

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    • it would be better to have an opinion from someone that has knowledge on the verse or at least an understanding of it rather then asking others who dont really know of it

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    • Well, you can ask knowledgeable members listed in the Tekken verse page as well, but you need staff to approve of any important changes.

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    • I will try to ask members of the verse and a staff when i get the opportunity for that

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    • Okay. Thanks.

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    • I was referring to as to why Jin's True Devil form(from BV) was included in his page, although now I see it as somewhat fair to do so. As for the FTL, which feat specifically?

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    • Kazuya true devil form was in both the movie and the game, they look about the same and in BV its stated thats the devil gene true form, so thats why Jin has it

      Yoshimitsu tag 2 feat, it was calculated and its like x7 times SoL

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    • Link please?

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    • Thanks

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    • That feat looks more like "aim dodging" to me. He already had his sword up and was running at Bryan when he intercepted the laser.

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    • Its not aim dodging when earlier he reacted to the other shots from before

      And nothing implies he had the sword already up and it would be dumb to shoot at him if he was already defending

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    • Bryan starts firing off to the side, giving Yoshimitsu plenty of time to dodge. The rest of the time he's reacting to Bryan moving the laser and firing at him. Later, when Yoshimitsu is charging, there is clearly a time buildup before the laser starts firing, providing plenty of time for Yoshimitsu to have his sword up before the laser actually fires (he already has his sword up when he comes into frame).

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    • He dodges the first one after he fires it, when he jumps away the laser hits the pillar not long after that, next one he fires at him he reflects it as seen there, the laser follows Yoshimitsu after it got fired and close to him

      Its not aim dodging unless he moves before its fired, he does after Bryan shoots each time, also him already having the sword up when he appears on screen isnt proof for your info, the laser was already fired, nothing implies he put the sword before and earlier he reacts to these after Bryan shoots, not before

      Also whats the point to fire the laser at him if he had the sword up as you claim, Bryan isnt dumb to shoot him when he had his guard up, aim dodging isnt a case here

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    • It's still tracking / aim dodging. Bryan doesn't fire directly at him without forewarning. The very first shot shows Bryan firing way off to the side and slowly dragging the laser horizontally, giving Yoshimitsu plenty of time to dodge. He then teleports out of the way when the laser would hit. Then Bryan catches up to him while he's spinning, hitting him but causing no damage (can't explain that one, unless he has some kind of forcefield while invisible), then he falls below Bryan's aim and out of the path of the laser. Then Bryan let's off the laser, and fires again, showing a visible delay in the firing time. Yoshimitsu appears in frame with his sword already up, which is inconclusive at best for determining reaction time.

      The visible delay in the last firing, the fact Yoshimitsu obviously expects it, and the fact he appears in frame with his sword already up sheds considerable doubt on this being a true feat. You say there's no proof that he reacts before the laser is fired, yet it's inconclusive at best that he reacts after the laser is fired.

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    • No matter how much you wanna stretch this, this isnt aim dodging, one person after another comes to complain about that feat with something at this point

      He reacts to all shots after its fired, aim dodging would be if he did before, the one where he does horizontally hits the pillar immediately after Yoshimitsu jumped away, there was no plenty of time there since he moves right when the laser was about to reach, thats reaction

      The one that its fired after him as he spins is reacted as well as it catches up to him and needs to reflect it, last one you were you also try to assume something, Bryan has no reason to fire the laser at him if he had the blade already up, unless you wanna say Bryan is an idiot and attacked someone with its defense up, nowhere its implied he had the sword up before its fired and given in the ither instances he does it after, its legit reaction

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    • Should we start a new thread with a summary of what we need to do and the discussion so far about this topic? It seems like that would be more likely to get feedback from the staff.

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    • The only things we need so far is to get an opinion from a calcer about a 7-A feat if its good or not to use, a calc on the meteor feat from Jack 6, there isnt much, honestly i will wait till it hits almost 500, so far its at 261 only, so no need for a new one

      The Yoshimitsu feat i dont see why a few people need to bring up stuff for it, which dont even disregard anything, thats arguing a dead horse, its legit reaction and we discussed about it about being used, if we have go through explanation for each time somebody happens to see the thread and say whats their irks about it, we wouldnt get anywhere

      Main priorities are the two feats mentioned above to get them done, after this, we dont have anything else left, so all we will do is wait for those

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    • Well, this is taking too long. Would you be willing to ask several calc group members to help us out here? You can tell them that I would appreciate the help.

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    • I will ask more of them and that you said it too the help wpuld be appreciated

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    • Okay. Thanks.

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    • The distance used to calc the time is wrong. You'd have to use the distance from the gun to the blade, not the distance from the blade to Yoshimitsu's head. You also have the exceedingly poor assumption that Yoshimitsu would be moving his arm 90 degrees, when he normally stands with his blade in an upward position, meaning it would require very little actual movement of his arm, so the distance his arm moves is an incorrect assumption as well...meaning the entire calculation is formulated on incorrect assumptions and is entirely wrong.

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    • What the calc does is calculate a 90 degree movement of Yoshimitsu's arm during the timeframe of the light passing from his sword to his head, rather than using the timeframe of from the gun to where his sword ended up - which is a much greater distance but which is also an unknown since we don't know exactly how far away Yoshimtisu was. Since Yoshimitsu normally has his sword up and to the side of his head, 90 degree movement of his arm is a vast overexaggeration. He'd move his arm somewhere between 6 inches (.1524 m) to 12 inches (.3048 m) at most. His normal stance in TT2 has his sword basically in front of his face, which is why the 90 degree movement is a very poor assumption.

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    • If you have problems with it contact the calcer, instead of saying all that here buddy

      Also funny how many people jump at the verse to say something is wrong or shouldnt be used, yet any other verse somehow doesnt get such stuff, this looks a lot like people got something against the series with something

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    • You were the one who posted the calc link, I'm just stating that the entire calc is based off poor and wrong assumptions.

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    • I posted it cuz i was asked to by somebody, telling me all that doesnt ammount to anything, as i just requested a calc for it, therefore you talk with the one who did it and was credited for

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    • I posted on the calc group discussion to see if it can be reworked or if it'll have to be thrown out. I may be a chemist, but I also majored in physics, which is why I know the calc is wrong. I'll leave it up to someone who wants to work with assumptions to do an actual recalc though. I don't think there's enough information to do a proper calc for it. When dealing with near light speeds, a small uncertainty introduces very large errors.

      Yoshimitsu starts to jump long before the laser even gets close to the pillar. Watch it back at .25 speed. The reason I say it's aim dodging is that it's a continuous beam and Yoshimitsu it reacting to Bryan's tracking for the most part.

      Trust me, this isn't me picking on the verse itself. I only look at interesting verses as I come across them. I've simply decided to ignore the DBS stuff since it's starts at ridiculous and gets worse from there. I don't say anything about Street Fighter since most of my knowledge is from the Street Fighter II movie which there are no profiles for. I like reading Naruto fanfiction, but can't be bothered about the actual show since it went downhill very quickly post-timeskip...a lot like Harry Potter fanfiction being vastly superior to the original. Bleach was fun.

      There are no Charmed profiles and very few Buffy profiles, so I don't see much point in saying anything there. I played a lot of Tekken, though I stopped all video games after PS2 and I enjoyed them. Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Underworld, etc. are all interests but they aren't particularly active, this just popped out on the thread and I happened to take a look.

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    • Aim dodging is only if he moves before he fires, also he is with the back behind the pillar, so he doesnt see the laser from behind and even at 0.25 time the speed right here shows Yoshimitsu barely off the ground and the laser already near the pillar, in fact it slices a little bit of it, before he went away, so no, he moves when its really close 
      20200224 231858
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    • The basis of the calc is based off assumptions. It assume's Yoshimitsu moves his arm 90 degrees - we don't know if this is true. Let's assume it is. Instead of finding a pic of Yoshimitsu and calculating the actual length of his arm from that, he makes an assumtion to use for Yoshimitsu's arm length. Still, let's assume the 90 degrees is right even though his stance in the game shows he would have his blade basically in the correct position for the feat.

      The distance used to calc the reaction time is undisputedly Wrong. The only way that number is right is if the laser originated at Yoshimitsu's eyes, not across the room at the end of Bryan's gun.

      To properly calc his reaction time from the firing to Bryan dragging the laser across the room, you'd have to calc the time it took for Yoshimitsu to start reacting to the time he left the floor and the distance the arc of the laser moved across the room. It had not touched the pillar before he started reacting (you see him bend down a little before that). 

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    • You cant see in the screenshot that the laser cuts a bit of the pillar when he barelly was off the ground, what you say on that part is not the same as what is seen in the picture at all, so your words are wrong for what the image shows there

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    • Whatever, regardless, the feat that gives him FTL is fundamentally wrong. The feat is calculated as if Yoshimitsu shot the laser from his eyes and decided to cut the laser with his sword. It isn't calculated from the actual point of origin - across the room where Bryan fires the gun.

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    • I saw now that you left your comment on the blog, so will ask, where you said its rel+, its the actual value instead?

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    • No, I posted the problem to Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan then took it upon myself to actually estimate it. The rel+ came from simply saying Bryan was just over 5ft away. I watched Yoshimitsu run at him and it looks like he makes 10-12 steps on screen (in between it cutting between Yoshimitsu and Bryan). You can see the highball recalc here: 

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4063612#6.

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    • Ok you know what, at this point i just had enough with the feat, gonna throw it away be done with at this point, i dont have the time to change the speed stat on the profiles as of now, so if anyone else could can go do it

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    • If the calculation is wrong, is somebody willing to redo it?

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ChemistKyle89/Recalc_on_Yoshimitsu%27s_speed_feat. See how that looks. I ran it by Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan. Waiting on final approval, though that's basically on the format of the blog and other's agreeing with the calc. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

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    • Thank you. I replied.

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    • I have a question.

      If Raven and Alisa can keep up with lars, shouldn't he have Sub-Relativistic speed?

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    • They arent really on the same level as Lars, so no

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    • Was it decided that edits need to be reverted here? I do not remember so well.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Should we start a new thread with a summary of what we need to do and the discussion so far about this topic? It seems like that would be more likely to get feedback from the staff.

      Also...

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    • FTL rating is gone, i removed it long ago

      At the moment im waiting on Spino to do a calc for a feat, when we get that done, dont think there will be much left to do

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    • Okay. Thanks for helping out.

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    • Spino calced it, will post it in a blog and get it evaluated soon

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    • Okay. That is good. Thank you for helping out.

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    • Well everything aimed here is pretty much done

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    • Okay. Do you mean that all of the revisions have been finished? If so, should I close this thread?

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    • Yes you can, as there aint anything left now

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    • Okay. Thanks.

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