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  • I don't want to be that guy, but I feel this is neccessary for accuracy.

    Busting the Sokovian capital feat and tanking the Neutron stars feat are important for scaling the MCU, but I believe that they have been unreasonably exaggerated.


    1- Busting Sokovia

    From what I've seen, Thor is credited for one-shotting the Sokovia capital with his attack, and people can't be blamed for getting that impression, but when you look closely at the context of the feat and movie it is not so straight forward. In short, Ultron used Hydra-developed Chitauri anti-gravity engines to lift the city with the intention of dropping it as a meteor, and the whole thing is held together by a vibranium spire.

    Iron Man proposes that Thor hits the vibranium spire to spread his force throughout the city, but F.R.I.D.A.Y. states that this will only cause the city to crack:


    Tony: Spire is vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it...
    F.R.I.D.A.Y: It will crack. That's not enough. The impact would still be devastating.
    Tony: Maybe if we can cap the other end. Keep the atomic action doubling back.
    F.R.I.D.A.Y: That could vaporize the city. And everyone on it.


    Cracking the city should be Base Thor's real AP (a quick calc with fragmentation puts him at low 7-B). So Iron Man plans to cap one end of the spire to "keep the atomic action doubling back" and create a "heat seal". Iron man ends up using the 3% power left in his suit to heat up the vibranium spire from below for a while, and then orders Thor to strike from above to create a loop magnifying Thor's AP many times over as it reverberates within the vibranium, which resulted in the devastating destruction of Novi Grad.

    It is possible for Base Thor to have higher tiers of weather manipulation, but this kinda puts a limit on his striking/thunder AP; so a downgrade from 7A+ to Low 7B. Maybe trying to scale Thor surviving the aftermath can yield something higher?


    2- Tanking a neutron star

    Thor reignited a dying Neutron star in order to allow the forge to melt down the Uru ingots.

    The average temperature of the core of neutron stars is used for IW's dying neutron star (They start with a billion Kelvin, and then have a rapid cool down phase down to a million Kelvin after a few years). The thing is that the temperature of the core of the sun is more than 15 times of that (and the sun's luminosity is a million times more than a neutron star), and nukes can cause a temperature over a hundred times of that. If we go with realistic values, if Awakened Thor was all but burned to death from the neutron star, he'll probably be burned to ash by your run-of-the-mill nuke, which is not reflected by his durability tier.

    Tanking the core of the sun has been calculated to be at Tier 8 (and Thor got charred to near death by the inferior neutron star). Of course, more often than not fiction is very... flexible when it comes to heat durability and damage, so it would be more of a feat for stars in the MCU than it is a feat for Thor, and practically we can only scale the neutron star's AP based on how hyped up it is. The relation between heat and AP has been discussed here. If we use the method used to calculate the Nidavellir feat at Low 6-B, shouldn't we be able to calculate the feat of tanking the sun's solar rays at close range as a Tier 5 durability feat for consistency?

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    • We have discussed the neutron star feat many times and it was calculated to be Tier 6 here 

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    • I am aware and previously went through its steps of the calculation, but according to that method tanking our sun's heat energy should be at Tier 5.

      It has been established for a longer time with more conventional methods that tanking the sun is tier 8 at best, and the neutron star feat would be inferior. So it seems this is a case of rule of cool, where a Tier 7 should be able to tank the neutron star with little difficulty.

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    • You actually believing that the MCU should be Tier 8 is one of the biggest downplays ever

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    • facepalm. I never claimed MCU should be Tier 8, only that this particular feat is Tier 8 (otherwise, tanking the sun is Tier 5). If you actually read the post, you'll know that I made an argument that Base Thor is at Tier Low 7B, and Awakened Thor would obviously be higher.

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    • Iirc we were actually supposed to bring tanking the sun up to High 6-C we just never did

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    • The script says Thor has the raw power to destroy Sokovia

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    • Interesting. I'll await more input for that.

      I was unable to find the script, can you link to it please? If it is from the same movie, it would seem this got retconned as the dialogue in the movie establishes that Thor can only crack the city on his own, leaving devastating large fragments.

      Also, found something else to powerscale Base Thor to; in Civil War, General Ross compares both Thor and Hulk to 30 Megaton nukes, which is 7-B, further justifying the downgrade from Mountain level+.

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    • In the movie, Iron Man specifically mentions the fact that the Vibranium core has a magnetic field surrounding it. He also notes that Thor could destroy the land mass, but that they would need him to fully vaporise it to prevent a massive death toll. Tony then comes up with the solution to create a heat seal at the bottom of the Vibranium core, thus disrupting the magnetic field and allowing the energy from Thor's attack to make contact with the core. As noted earlier, Vibranium has the capacity to absorb vibrations, not amplify energy. However, as I noted earlier, a good explanation is that once Vibranium reaches its capacity for vibration absorption, any incoming energy is bounced away (similar to how photoelectrons work). This makes sense in context of the feat, as Iron Man removes the heat seal, enabling Thor's attack to spread down into the core and rebound of it, all the way down its length, ensuring the power from his attack is dispersed throughout the landmass. This is supported by the feat in the forest from the first Avengers film. So, I feel it was all Thor's power, just redistributed to maximise the level of destruction.Things to note:

      The Vibranium core is intact after the destruction of the landmass The city flew due to repurposed antigravity technology taken from the Chitauri Leviathans (as indicated in the Age of Ultron: Art of the Moviebook.)

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    • If we go by the theory that one of their objectives is distrupting the magnetic field, then it would make the feat less impressive, since F.R.I.D.A.Y mentions that the magnetic field is "what is keeping the rock together". Also, Thor is directly hitting the core/spire (from above); his energy is already making contract with the core by hitting it. It isn't like there is a magnetic forcefield surrounding the spire.

      When Iron Man mention that Thor can crack the city, he said that he can crack the city BY hitting the vibranium core/spire; so the vibranium already helps enhance Thor's attack without needing to create a heat seal (i.e. by redistributing his power). The scale of the destruction Thor can do has been specified in the move, which is cracking/fragmentation; lower than the final result. Oh, and by 

      I don't think there is a "Unified Theory of MCU Vibranium" that doesn't have counterexamples; the material works based on what the plot demands. Your explanation depends on a lot of speculation, but Iron Man explictly explains the purpose of creating the heat seal: "Keep the atomic action doubling back", in other words for Thor's energy to keep bouncing inside the vibranium multiple times. Feat from the forest doesn't come close; has been used as evidence that Thor is 8A.

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    • 1st thing. Is what is this supposed calc you are talking about?? Show it

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    • It is pretty trivial, we already have the volume of the city calc'd, so we input the fragmentation factor.

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    • The Neutron feat was calves at Low 6-B

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    • Yes, I am aware and acknowledged that in the post, as well as mentioned my objections.

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    • Ah I see my bad

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    • ShadowWhoWalks wrote:

      2- Tanking a neutron star

      Thor reignited a dying Neutron star in order to allow the forge to melt down the Uru ingots.

      The average temperature of the core of neutron stars is used for IW's dying neutron star (They start with a billion Kelvin, and then have a rapid cool down phase down to a million Kelvin after a few years). The thing is that the temperature of the core of the sun is more than 15 times of that (and the sun's luminosity is a million times more than a neutron star), and nukes can cause a temperature over a hundred times of that. If we go with realistic values, if Awakened Thor was all but burned to death from the neutron star, he'll probably be burned to ash by your run-of-the-mill nuke, which is not reflected by his durability tier.

      Tanking the core of the sun has been calculated to be at Tier 8 (and Thor got charred to near death by the inferior neutron star). Of course, more often than not fiction is very... flexible when it comes to heat durability and damage, so it would be more of a feat for stars in the MCU than it is a feat for Thor, and practically we can only scale the neutron star's AP based on how hyped up it is. The relation between heat and AP has been discussed here. If we use the method used to calculate the Nidavellir feat at Low 6-B, shouldn't we be able to calculate the feat of tanking the sun's solar rays at close range as a Tier 5 durability feat for consistency?


      About the neutron star, I think that somethings are bad calculed or  ignored about this feat. 

      People sometimes  forgets the gravity of the neutron star or even the strength that Thor needed to move the structure around he dyson sphere. 

      There are other factor, we could meansure  the neutron star beam using the laser formula and reach a high dura for Thor.

      I would agree if the calculations considers others factors like the strength feats performed by Thor earlier or the gravity of star and even other formulas.  

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    • Since the Neutron star has been mostly resolved, let's focus on sokovia.

      Like I said before, you need a calc posted on this wiki and accepted for your downgrade to be put in place. Before you can show the calc they will always stay at 7-A+

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    • That is not true at all. You can absolutely rip a calc to shreds, especially if it's context that is wrong and not numbers, without making another calc.

      What kind of logic is that, anyways? If the new calc isn't made then they simply have nothing to scale to, they will still not stay a wrong tier.

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    • Luck100 wrote:

      About the neutron star, I think that somethings are bad calculed or  ignored about this feat. 

      People sometimes  forgets the gravity of the neutron star or even the strength that Thor needed to move the structure around he dyson sphere. 

      There are other factor, we could meansure  the neutron star beam using the laser formula and reach a high dura for Thor.

      I would agree if the calculations considers others factors like the strength feats performed by Thor earlier or the gravity of star and even other formulas.  

      Awakened Thor currently has class T lifting strength. Also, the whole star is covered by a metallic shell with vents that can be opened, so anti-gravity technology is not out of the question.

      Didn't see the laser formula get used this way, but be my guest. If you scale the energy produced by the star to Chris Hemsworth's tiny surface area, we'll barely be getting Tier 8 even with a ten minute timeframe.

      Lifting Strength doesn't get scaled to Striking Strength or Durability per wiki policy.

      I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote: Since the Neutron star has been mostly resolved, let's focus on sokovia.

      Like I said before, you need a calc posted on this wiki and accepted for your downgrade to be put in place. Before you can show the calc they will always stay at 7-A+

      Not entirely. If we accept the calc this means that the calculation policy for stars (and possibly radiation energy overall) is out of date, and this is a good place to discuss and learn about the new policy.

      As Ricsi-viragosi mentioned, we are allowed to criticize a calc in a content revision thread without having to make a new calc.

      The calc is trivial, but if you insist:

      Fragmentation: Volume of Novi Grad x Fragmentation value = (2/3*pi*1953.768^3*2800) * 8 = 3.4988523e+14 [7-C Town Level]

      Violent Fragmentation: Volume of Novi Grad x Violent Fragmentation value = (2/3*pi*1953.768^3*2800) * 64 = 2.7990818e+15 [High 7-C Large Town Level]

      Actually lower than I originally thought.

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    • Novi Grad?? What the hell is Novi Grad??

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    • The capital of Sokovia

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    • And we also need to find the volume of Novi Grad

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    • Capital of Sokovia. Not the whole "Country of Sokovia" was destroyed, only its capital which has a diameter less than 2 kilometers.

      As I said, the volume is already calculated.

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    • if you talking about the diameter of the city itself, then there is something wrong with the calc, thor destroyed the whole rock of novi grad, not just the main city

      Another thing is how you are just doing fragmenting the city and not including the KE Part due to how the whole city fell

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    • The calc assumes that whole rock is a hemisphere (half a circle) for simplicity, and we can get the volume of a hemisphere with the radius from equation: 2/3* π*R^3. Now you mention it, there is something wrong with the calc since it used the diameter instead of radius. So the actual results should be:

      Fragmentation: 4.3735654e+13 [7-C Town Level]

      Violent Fragmentation: 3.4988523e+14 [7-C Town Level]


      Please read the post to learn why it is fragmentation.

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    • You actually didn't add in the KE of sokovia falling itself, which is the reason we got 7-A in the 1st place

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    • Why would that scale to them? It falling was supposed to wipe out all of humanity.

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    • It falling also had nothing to do with Thor whacking it. KE has no relevance when he wasn't opposing said KE in the slightest.

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    • He destroyed a falling sokovia, he had to counter the energy of Sokovia when he destroyed it

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    • >The city is falling down

      >Thor is hitting down

      >Both are falling at the same speed

      >Thor needs to overcome the KE he does not interact with because ..... reasons?

      Logic disagrees with your stance.

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    • He neutralized sokovia. If he destroyed Sokovia when it was falling at the same speed, it's impact would have been far worse.

      He also forgot to add the KE of the debris of the result of Thor's mjolnir explosion

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    • No. If Thor was countering Sokovia from the other directoon you would have an argument but the conditions of his feat is the same as if he busted a similar sized rock that was sitting on the ground.

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    • He still also forgot adding the energy of the debris after the explosion

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    • Shadow@ What Stark meant with "keep the atomic action doubling back"?

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    • Newendigo wrote: Shadow@ What Stark meant with "keep the atomic action doubling back"?

      Make Thor's attack keep being doubled by the vibranium through movie science.

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    • We accept bullshit science all the time so okay.

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    • Don't think anyone disagrees with the BS science, just saying that it doesn't scale to Thor.

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    • Newendigo wrote:
      We accept bullshit science all the time so okay.

      Yeah, but Thor doesn't have a giant pile of vibranium already logged inside his target to amplify his strikes.

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    • The vibranium don't amplify the damage only reflects the damage like captain's shield. Stark overheat the core to Thor destroy the island without the core re attract all together like a meteor. 

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    • Luck100 wrote: The vibranium don't amplify the damage only reflects the damage like captain's shield. Stark overheat the core to Thor destroy the island without the core re attract all together like a meteor. 

      No, it was up and stated, quotes given above. The vibranium kept making Thor's attacks bouncing over and over to amplify the damage.

      Regardless, it is up and stated that alone he can only fragment the thing, and only enough to make chunks big enough to make meteors still.

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    • But they destroyed 500 meters long chunk of vibranium (stark + Thor) with a uni-beam and mjolnir hit.

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    • The neutron star feat's results would vary wildly depending on the temperature used. We've used 1000000 Kelvin for nearly all of our calcs.

      If the average temperature of a neutron star is used.

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*(4*pi*177.6765^2)/7.1631454094501*1.14*3.6477=1.6923029e+21 joules or 404.46 gigatons (Large Island Level)

      But, the temperature of neutron stars are not particularily consistent, and can range from a few Kelvin to billions. Also we've assumed that the beam is channeling the literal full power of the star, which I feel is an erroneous assumption, as the rest of the star remains bright even when the beam is fired. Eitri's statement of "the full force of a star" is likely exaggerated.

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    • And if we use laser formula to calculate the neutron star feat ? 
      We could calc the strength to open the "doors" of nidavellir + the gravity of the star to add in the calculation too.

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    • The laser formula depends on the power of the laser, which would still depend on the temperature of the neutron star and the amount of the star's power concentrated in the beam. As for the strength required to open the doors of nidavellir, I do not know how we would calc that.

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    • Dino W wrote: The neutron star feat's results would vary wildly depending on the temperature used. We've used 1000000 Kelvin for nearly all of our calcs.

      If the average temperature of a neutron star is used.

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*(4*pi*177.6765^2)/7.1631454094501*1.14*3.6477=1.6923029e+21 joules or 404.46 gigatons (Large Island Level)

      But, the temperature of neutron stars are not particularily consistent, and can range from a few Kelvin to billions. Also we've assumed that the beam is channeling the literal full power of the star, which I feel is an erroneous assumption, as the rest of the star remains bright even when the beam is fired. Eitri's statement of "the full force of a star" is likely exaggerated.

      Which is why we went for the Low 6-B

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    • You just ignored every reason why the calc is flawed after that... you quoted it, but you still ignored it.

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    • I'm just gonna call the supporters of the verse because this shiet ain't advancing.

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    • Thanks.

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    • If we use Comic Books vs The World's method of calcing the neutron star feat, which simply takes the power output of the star per square meter.

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*1.14*3.6477=3.0557092e+16 joules or 7.303145 megatons (City Level

      This method however still requires the assumption of temperature, and is otherwise a low-end, as we do not know how much of the neutrons star's power is concentrated in the beam. Unless there is a way to determine either of these, I'm not sure if the neutron star calc can be used.

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    • But we know by Eitri quote "full force of a neutron star" if we downgrade this feat why not all feats of this kind ? 

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    • Yes, Eitri states that Thor will have to withstand "the full force of a star," but that is clearly not the case, as the rest of Nidavellir remains bright.

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    • Like a supernova a caracther only take 1% of the energy and the 99% of the energy blows away, but he still solar system level ... 

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    • Luck100 wrote:
      Like a supernova a caracther only take 1% of the energy and the 99% of the energy blows away, but he still solar system level ... 

      We don't do that at all. Some profiles might get through the cracks, but explosions and other types of energy spread is a pretty big factor in not using a lot of feats for characters.

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    • I already called most of the members for opinions.

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    • But here we have others factor like the gravity of the star after he awake the neutron star and etc ...

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    • For whatever reason, Nidavellir's gravity seems fairly minimal, which is strange for a neutron star. In fact, Nidavellir does not behave like a neutron star at all. It is not nearly bright enough for one, it can be reignited which is not a feature of neutron stars, it exerts minimal gravity, and the effects of what should be an extremely powerful magnetic field are unseen.

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    • Surprise, MCU takes liberties with it's feats.

      But yes, the feat should be pretty much unusable. There is no way Nidavellir is an "average" neutron star, so using that for calcs wouldn't work anyways.

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    • Magnetars can still be reignited in real life (eruptions) and they are one type of neutron star. About the gravity, I think that the movie dont need to show to we assume that exists and if we think about it, he opening the gates of nidaveliir would be a good strength feat because that gravity. 

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    • Not really sure if a magnetar eruption can be considered a reignition. They occur when the crust shifts and ruptures, rapidly releasing energy, which seems very unlike what is happening on Nidavellier. XTE J1810–197 reawakening does not seem to relate to its temperature, but rather its radio wave emissions and magnetic field.

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    • But in nidavellir we have a structure doing the reignition of the star and protecting its core.

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    • Actually, now that I think about it, radio wave emissions may relate to luminousity, and thus the neutron star calc. However, there are still too many unknowns to properly evaluate the feat as of yet.

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    • Dino W wrote: For whatever reason, Nidavellir's gravity seems fairly minimal, which is strange for a neutron star. In fact, Nidavellir does not behave like a neutron star at all. It is not nearly bright enough for one, it can be reignited which is not a feature of neutron stars, it exerts minimal gravity, and the effects of what should be an extremely powerful magnetic field are unseen.

      Most of this can be waved away with bad science. Nidavellir is called a neutron star in the film by people who probably know what they are talking about

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    • Even if Nidavellir is a proper neutron star, we would still need to determine temperature, as well as energy concentrated in the beam in order to properly perform the calc.

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    • 10^6 Kelvin is the temperature of neutron stars. Or is there a reason why that value is unusable?

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    • Neutron stars have extremely varied temperatures. New neutron stars can reach billions of kelvin, whereas older ones can be just a few degrees Kelvin. 1000000 Kelvin is reached just a few thousand years after the neutron star is formed, whereas 600000 Kelvin is the average temperature of a neutron star. However you would likely be hard pressed to find a neutron star at either of those temperatures. If we were to assume a temperature, 600000 Kelvin would probably be the best, although still tenuous. We would still have to tackle the issue, however, of the amount of Nidavellir's energy that is concentrated in the beam.

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    • Nidavelir gotta be at least 1500 years old, since Thor's hammer was made there.

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    • Mjolnir was owned by Hela before Thor. In the MCU guidebook, it was stated that there was a 5000 year gap between the imprisonment of Hela, and the birth of Thor.

      The statement can be found on one of the later pages (30 somethingish if I remember correctly) here, along with an Iron Man arc reactor 10 gigajoule statement.

      https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/marvel-cinematic-universe-feat-thread.338412/

      This makes Nidavellir at least 6500 years old.

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    • You still haven't calced the KE of the debris after the explosion

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    • The mechanism didn't suck up the star's energy and shoot it into a laser like the Starkiller Base. Thor basically opened up a window that allows for direct exposure to the star's heat and radiation. This is what is meant by "full force of a star". The only reason he did this is to allow enough heat to melt the ore Stormbreaker is made from.

      As mentioned, by how we usually evaluate heat radiation AP into the surface area of a person, even if the star is as hot as our sun (two dozen times hotter than the average neutron star) it would be Tier 8 AP. The supposedly new standard for stars/heat AP is not detailed yet.

      Nidavelir is definetly not the typical neutron star, considering its diameter is less than 700 m. It is also several thousand years old which makes it unlikely to be particularly hot.

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    • The issue with using the result from tanking the temperature of the sun is that it is based on specific heat capacity of a human. Since Thor is not a human, we do not know his specific heat capacity.

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    • ShadowWhoWalks wrote:
      The mechanism didn't suck up the star's energy and shoot it into a laser like the Starkiller Base. Thor basically opened up a window that allows for direct exposure to the star's heat and radiation. This is what is meant by "full force of a star". The only reason he did this is to allow enough heat to melt the ore Stormbreaker is made from.



      He only needs to be electromagnetic radiation emissor to be considered a laser not a deathstar's base.

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    • From what I understand, this thread's arguments are about the science of a neutron star vs the statements surrounding Thor's feat? I'm inclined to agree with Azoth, this seems like a case of writers not knowing science. 

      It's worth mentioning that there was a discussion about how we treat heat resistance feats in fiction, which would make it so tanking a certain amount of heat isn't attributed to durability but a resistance, and vice versa.

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    • You still haven't calced the KE of the debris

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    • The KE of the Debris don't matter at all, that I'm not calcer and I still know that.

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    • Yes he does, it shows how much energy thor put in into destroying sokovia

      The faster it is, the more energy it took to reach that

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    • Newendigo wrote: The KE of the Debris don't matter at all, that I'm not calcer and I still know that.

      KE is still the amount of energy that you're hitting something with

      We do usually go for frag, but that doesn't spontaneously make KE invalid

      ... Remind me what exactly is wrong with Spino's calc on it?

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    • I think you are confusing the KE of the debris with the speed in which the debris were blown away.

      And we already through this, Thor's attack was amped.

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    • ... Mass moving at a speed is kinetic energy

      that said, good point on the amp. What other feats do we have at our disposal?

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    • The OP is treating the calc even after getting amped as fine and what the value is.

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    • DMUA wrote:
      ... Mass moving at a speed is kinetic energy

      that said, good point on the amp. What other feats do we have at our disposal?

      The Ancient One reality warping a city, which I think would be 7-B. But that would only scale to her,kaicellius, and strange

      We also have Thor's lightning to be calced at 7-B+

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    • DMUA@ I was talking to Blue where the fack did you came from?

      Ah, we have Thor weather featsss... I think of them is 7-B.

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    • It's High into 7-B+

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    • Newendigo wrote: DMUA@ I was talking to Blue where the fack did you came from?

      The darkness in your soul

      That said, where is the lightning calc? I swear if it's lightning math I'm going to stab someone

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    • "This storm clearly didn't cover all of Manhattan, there's a blue sky around it not even a few hundred meters away from where Thor is."

      Kep kinda has me covered

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    • Tier 7 I will miss you.

      Getting hammered to Tier 8 fodder.

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    • When did it say they will be tier 8?

      Also, the calc is still incomplete.

      And at worst the sorcerers will be downgraded to 7-B

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    • I was half joking in there, everyone may stop at 7-C going by the last calc that Shadow wrote.

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    • Except the Sorcerers.

      And he forgot the KE of the debris

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    • The sorceres bend space itself in the Mirror Dimension, that is not AP applicable.

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    • Didn't kaiecillius bend space of new york outside the mirror dimension??

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    • I don't think bending space is applicable to AP

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    • Reality warping isn't really an ap feat to my knowledge, theres nothing to really calc there. It's...It's just hax

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    • Newendigo wrote: Tier 7 I will miss you.

      Getting hammered to Tier 8 fodder.

      They’d still be solidly high in Tier 8 thanks to Thor creating tornadoes, him busting that ice and Hulk sinking an ice shelf

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    • Both can scale several times above Iron Man if we use AR multipliers.

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    • We need to wait for Shadowwhowalks to respond to DUMA's question and for the recalc before we start on who scales

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    • The problem with the KE calc is:

      1- Thor's attack was amped and we should use fragmentation. This has been elaborated upon already. Destruction calculations takes priority over KE calculations anyway.

      2- It is arbitrary. The city was constantly being accelerated by the gravity engines up till it is capable of extinction-level impact. If Thor waited until the city is faster, and delivered the exact same amped AP, could the city potentially tank the AP just because it is moving faster downwards?

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    • That's only in the case where the thing hitting it is moving at a certain speed yet the damage is way lower. In this case, Thor is hitting it and it's exploding so forcefully that the pieces are sent flying at 7-A speed.

      Not really, but the work Thor is putting into it would have less of an effect on the pieces

      Either way, what was the 7-C feat from earlier? And, that ice shelf feat on Hulk's part could be something.

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    • Is the ice Hulk feat even canon? Wasn't it a deleted scene?

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    • ah, that would just about throw a wrench into it

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    • KE doesn't matter because Thor's attack was massively amped. Other discussion about it isn't really that important for this.

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    • ShadowWhoWalks wrote:
      The problem with the KE calc is:

      1- Thor's attack was amped and we should use fragmentation. This has been elaborated upon already. Destruction calculations takes priority over KE calculations anyway.

      2- It is arbitrary. The city was constantly being accelerated by the gravity engines up till it is capable of extinction-level impact. If Thor waited until the city is faster, and delivered the exact same amped AP, could the city potentially tank the AP just because it is moving faster downwards?

      1.Fragmentation is Thor destroying the rock, the KE is in addition because that shows how hard Thor wacked it. About amping, we can do a Tier 7 when amped or something like that

      2. No. That would be a question if Thor was wacking in an opposite direction. That was elaborated on already

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    • About the when amped thing we couldn't really give thor a tier based off it, thor doesn't carry a super heated core of vibranuim around with him, we can't really use his amped feat for anything, it will never be relevant to his fighting/combat feats as it's explictly done with outside help/equipment that isn't combat applicable.

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    • I don't remember the impact in vibranium amplify the damage, someone have the quote about this statement ? 

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    • Why would we say he is 7-A when amped when he isn't getting amped but the specific strike is? I really doubt any match will allow a giant stick of vibranium to be shoved through his opponent Vlad style and Tony swoops by to make a heat seal.

      Thor was stated to only be able to crack Sokovia. Nothing else is in the scene is relevant to his tiering. The KE of the debris cant count towards his AP as that is also a result of the energy "doubling back".

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    • Wasn't it that how Iron Man heating up the vibranium helped soften the vibranium which helped thor break it.

      Also then, if this isn't applicable then we have to remove the whole sokovia feat and put them as tier 8 fodder. OOF

      Edit: Tier 7 fodder OOF.

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    • There was a argument that the vibranium was not used to Amp Thor's attack, but to spread it over. Because Thor could only crack the city due to his small range, the spire was used in tandem to widen his AoE.

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    • But Vibranium don't amplify the damage only throw the damage back. 



      In AoU script Friday says that Thor can crack the city but the magnetic field of the vibranium core would still damage the earth. 

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    • Atomic action doubling back is a chain of events not a energy amping thing. Thor still mountain level by calc.

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    • @Newendigo

      Tony literally states the heat seal will keep the "atomic action doubling back". This isn't spreading his attack and giving him AOE, this is blatantly saying that the force of his attack will keep repeating to destroy the landmass.

      @Luck

      Thor cracking the landmass is the only relevant part of that statement. Note how even your own statement separates the act of him only cracking Sokovia and the vibranium being able to damage Earth.

      If a chain reaction is responsible for the destruction, Thor won't scale or does Luke's X-Wing or the Falcon scale to oneshotting a Death Star?

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    • I agree with the Sokovia stuff, and I've actually been thinking this for a while now.

      "anti-gravity technology is not out of the question". This is neither shown nor implied by the movie. You would actually have to prove this, especially since none of these vents are opened when he moves it.

      ShadowWhoWalks wrote:

      Tanking the core of the sun has been calculated to be at Tier 8 (and Thor got charred to near death by the inferior neutron star). Of course, more often than not fiction is very... flexible when it comes to heat durability and damage, so it would be more of a feat for stars in the MCU than it is a feat for Thor, and practically we can only scale the neutron star's AP based on how hyped up it is.

      Thor wasn't dipped in the core of a star, he withstood the energy of Nidavellir as it was being magnified through what's essentially a Dyson's sphere. This isn't to say I agree with the original calc, however, just it's not Tier 8.

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    • InfiniteSped wrote: Is the ice Hulk feat even canon? Wasn't it a deleted scene?

      Yes, it’s in the novel and the scene is referenced in the film

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    • The reference in the film is different, no? He says he put a bullet in his mouth and Hulk spit it back, while on the scene he turns before he even fires or points the gun, iirc.

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    • Still tho the scenes in the official novelisation and it seems to be considered as canon

      IF we can’t use it we still have 8-A+ for Thor creating tornadoes and having his own glacier feat

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    • Can you post the quote from the novelization?

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    • I don’t have the quote on me

      I’ll see if I can find it

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    • I think there are way too many arguments going on and it's getting very confusing.

      Based on what I understand, if Thor busting Sokovia was indeed an amped feat, it should not be used. Efforts now should be finding another feat he can scale to.

      As for the neutron star feat, I have no opinion, considering I'm still in the dark when it comes to heat feats due to Dargoo's revision thread.

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    • Ano@ I will try to look for the meanings of heat seal (I know it mainly refers to sealing plastics).

      We could also try to ask the writers of the film.

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    • That IS against the rules to do that.

      Also, I think Joss Whedon doesn't care anymore about the MCU due to the problems working on AoU

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    • Is not against the rules.

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    • I thought you can't contact the writers on power and stuff like that. 

      Either way, he is still too busy and probably doesn't care about answering MCU stuff anymore due to the fact of how long ago that was

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    •  

      @Luck

      Thor cracking the landmass is the only relevant part of that statement. Note how even your own statement separates the act of him only cracking Sokovia and the vibranium being able to damage Earth.

      If a chain reaction is responsible for the destruction, Thor won't scale or does Luke's X-Wing or the Falcon scale to oneshotting a Death Star?


      Poor example.

      Friday says that Iron man needs to heat up the vibranium core to revert it's magnetic field, never to amp thedamage made by Thor (that would destroy the city too) so the feat still aply to Thor stats.

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    • He does say that it would amp his attack. "Keep the atomic action doubling back." clearly refers to the attack being repeated over and over.

      Point is, it is plain stated that without vibranium, Thor would only crack the thing.

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    • "Keep the atomic action doubling back." is a very abstract concept and can be used to the vibranium core magnetic field over the city. For example the statement can be refered to revert the magnetic field of the city instead of just ampying the damage. 

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    • ummm, I don't know how your getting that interpretation, nothing in that sentence involves a magnetic field it seems to imply thors energy will repeatedly double back through the city destroying it. As he states thor just hitting it will crack the landmass on it's own leaving massive debris to crash into the world.

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    • Except that doesn't matter.

      It is first established that Thor on his own would only crack it (It will crack. That's not enough. The impact would still be devastating)

      Then after the above quoted suggestion, it is said that it would vaporise the city (That could vaporize the city. And everyone on it.).


      It is plain stated that Thor on his own would only crack the thing, and whatever the doubling entails, it allows him to vaporized the whole thing. Which means that the atomic doubling is what allows that to happen, hence he doesn't scale.

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    • ^ Also this, thors hit can only crack it on it's own, he can't vaporize the city and requires the heated vibranium core to accomplish that feat, he can't scale to it.

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      ummm, I don't know how your getting that interpretation, nothing in that sentence involves a magnetic field it seems to imply thors energy will repeatedly double back through the city destroying it. As he states thor just hitting it will crack the landmass on it's own leaving massive debris to crash into the world.

      Avengers AoU Scrips :

      "FRIDAY: The Vibranium core has got a magnetic field, that's what's keeping the rock together."

      Avengers AoU Scrips too:

      Tony Stark: The spire's Vibranium. If I get Thor to hit it...

      FRIDAY: It'll crack, but that's not enough, the impact would still be devastating.

      Didn't Ultron and Vision are made from vibranium ? Crack vibranium would be mountain level too.

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    • How does that help your case, thor can only crack the landmass on his own, he can't vaporize it without the heat sealed vibranium core ergo we can't scale his ap to the destruction of the city beyond him normally cracking it.

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    • So, we aply the downgrade to only Thor or we apply to characters who scale too ?

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    • Yep. all the tier 7's in the MCU scale to thor

      They are now 100%%%%% fodder. Nice going Nasuverse fan

      Sad thing is, is that there is nobody interesting in 7-C to fight. all the interesting characters in tier 7 are in 7-A.  

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    • Why would anyone that scales to Thor not be downgraded?

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    • If they're scaling only to thor they get downgraded....

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    • The pen or the sword
      The pen or the sword removed this reply because:
      wrong reply
      22:07, November 27, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote:
       

      Sad thing is, is that there is nobody interesting in 7-C to fight. all the interesting characters in tier 7 are in 7-A.  

      Alex mercer would like to know your location

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    • Ricsi-viragosi wrote:
      Why would anyone that scales to Thor not be downgraded?


      Because I think that Iron Man have a 7-A feat while amped and figthing Thor.

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    • Where?

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote:
       

      Sad thing is, is that there is nobody interesting in 7-C to fight. all the interesting characters in tier 7 are in 7-A.  

      Alex mercer would like to know your location

      I don't care about mercer, now I can't do Ben 10 VS Strange, Edelgard VS Strange, and MCU Iron man vs Godzilla (Take that back, there is some 7-C godzilla's)

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    • Alex already beat leo mothra and stomps several godzillas (even ones outside 7c):P

      7-B ainz ooal gown would also like to know your location

      Don't diss tier 7

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    • Blue@ I suggest to stop delaying the thread with this nonsense of personal battles that you want to make.

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    • Sorry.

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    • Eh Im more to blame then he is, apologies all around, I just wanted to point out tier seven isn't awful.

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Where?

      Stark have two charges of 200 petawatts lasers of MCU (47 megatons) the energy come from the armor, when Thor striked stark went to 400% above baseline. I think this would give mountain+ because Stark hit Thor with that energy.  

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    • Was this ever calced/accepted?

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Was this ever calced/accepted?

      No, I think I will make a thread about it. 

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    • Wait, but Thor would still have mountain level dura by the feat, rigth ? 

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    • IF it's accepted as legitmate? Maybe, depends on if thor tanked the energy of the blast I think.

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    • He didn't tank all the energy of it, the explosion happened within the vibranium spire while he was on top of the whole thing several meters above.

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    • He was above the spire and she reflects the damage. He would still tanking the attack.

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    • What scene is this?

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      What scene is this?

      When he hit the Vibranium Core. He would still tank his on attack. 

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    • Um when did thor get hit by the energy? as wendigo pointed out he was several meters above the explosion...more we would have to calculate his surface area to figure out how much energy he was actually tanking.

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    • Thor doesn't seem to be hit by the central explosio, we'd need to calc his surface area and his distance from the central explosion to figure out how much energy he actually tanks, more the whole scenes a bit difficult to sort out with the debris flying everywhere. Still could be a solid feat when calced.

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    • Luck100 wrote:
      This scene :

      https://youtu.be/jMv80Q63xAA?t=32

      From the looks, the whole surface of the city was complety obliterated with him being in the center.

      It would not scale to the whole 7-A, but pretty high.

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    • Yeah no, the explosion was waaaay to wide for him to scale to anything good. He'd be lucky to have tanked a thousant of the power.

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    • For record, there wasn't one singular explosion. The energy release happened all over the spine itself, which reduces the amount of energy he tanked massively.

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    • If he's in the center, wouldn't he tank the whole thing

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    • No, he would not. This is not an explosion. This is his kinetic energy amplified and spread over the whole vibranium spine. Hence, the amount of kinetic energy released where he was is not remotely as much as all the kinetic energy, since it's absorbed and released equally from all sides of the vibranium.

      It's the reason why hitting the vibranium was first proposed, the amping of his attack came in later.

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    • Gonna call more knowledged members cus some of the users I called were uninterested as the thread is confusing from top to bottom.

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    • Why the energy would go to all spine but don't reflect in Thor face's like what happened with Captain's shield ?

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    • He means the force that got amped (7-A) is spreading from the entire spire rather than spreading from the spot Thor hit. Cap's shield is a very small piece of vibranium in comparison and does not have the area to spread the force much. Plus if the spire reflects it directly back, why on earth is Thor hitting it and why was Sokovia busted?

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    • I don't know, why the the damage don't reflect back to Cap's ? Even the director's don't know. But yeah, the ligthing bolt and the surface would still been hit even of the spire direct the hit to Thor.

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    • The grammar in the last sentence did not really help but anyways...

      Vibranium is a deus ex machina. It can reflect kinetic energy, amplify it, and be used to make balls that work as super EMPs among the many uses Black Panterns balls do (please don't make the obvious joke).

      Whatever they did to the vibranium, it made the kinetic energy be amplified and spread all over Sokovia.

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    • Wakanda has huge balls, that's why they are the most advanced civilization.

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    • Ricsi-viragosi wrote:
      Yeah no, the explosion was waaaay to wide for him to scale to anything good. He'd be lucky to have tanked a thousant of the power.

      Can you calc the amount of energy he tanked tho?

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    • Do we have the width and length of the vibranium spine?

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    • IIRC the length is mentioned by Iron Man

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    • Also I want to ask what is the issue atm, didn't follow this thread for a period of time.

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    • So the attack is amped by the vibranium heat seal, there is an explosion that thor tanks as the island is destroyed, now we need to figure out how much energy he tanked from that explosion.

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    • Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
      Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan removed this reply because:
      never mind
      11:37, November 29, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Luck100 wrote: I don't know, why the the damage don't reflect back to Cap's ? Even the director's don't know. But yeah, the ligthing bolt and the surface would still been hit even of the spire direct the hit to Thor.

      You see a flash of light, vibranium probably converted kinetic energy to light energy.

      Vibranium absorbs energy and converts it to something else. For example Black Panther's suit probably converts it to potential energy to store kinetic energy.

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    • Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan wrote:
      Can't we just scale the explosion to the KE of Sokovia exploding or the fragmentation of Sokovia?

      I think the issue is he doesn't tank the entire explosion. As for vibranuim, Im in agreement it's deus ex machina that does whatever the heck the writers need it to do to further the plot.

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    • Yeah never mind, I saw it from above replies.

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    • Well I agree vibranium's kind of a plot device at times but we can still kinda guess how it works based on real life science. As we all learned in primary/middle school energy cannot be created an destroyed. Vibranium seems to convert energy to something else. For example, when Cap blocks Thor in the Avengers, we see a flash of light probably indicating that the kinetic energy has been converted to light energy. Or for Black Panther's suit its properties are plausible. It can either use a chemical reaction to molecularly break down the energy to something else or use elastic compression to store it as potential energy.

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    • Thats a nice theory overall but its just an interpretation the writers have never confirmed, probably so they don't ever have to worry about breaking their nonexistent rules in verse. Either way we need to try and calc the energy thor tanked from the explosion.

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    • So what are the conclusions among the staff members here?

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    • The 7-As will be downgrade. We gotta wait until someone calc the bare amount of energy that Thor withstood.

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    • Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan wrote:
      Well I agree vibranium's kind of a plot device at times but we can still kinda guess how it works based on real life science. As we all learned in primary/middle school energy cannot be created an destroyed. Vibranium seems to convert energy to something else. For example, when Cap blocks Thor in the Avengers, we see a flash of light probably indicating that the kinetic energy has been converted to light energy. Or for Black Panther's suit its properties are plausible. It can either use a chemical reaction to molecularly break down the energy to something else or use elastic compression to store it as potential energy.

      That's just a strech man.

      We can not, in fact, gues the physics behind it. Because the guesses will lack any proof behind them. Keeping the "atomic action doubling back" in mind, it seems more plausable that the release of Thor's energy kept doubling back.

      Creating energy out of nothing is hardly less scientifical than up and absorbing kinetic energy and making light so strong that rocks evaportate. THe molecules assumption is even more farfetched.

      But if we know how long and wide the spine is, that might be calced. Until then, we should just downgrade them to the next best feat.

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    • Newendigo wrote: The 7-As will be downgrade. We gotta wait until someone calc the bare amount of energy that Thor withstood.

      Okay. Thanks. I will unsubscribe then. You can send me a message later if you need my help.

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    • Rics@ Here a shoot of the spire, the scan that F.R.I.D.A.Y made says 2380 something long, I can't see if its in meters or kilometers.

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    • Definitely meters. No way vaping Sokovia was only 7-A if its thousands of km wide.

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    • That says 2380 feet, and about 1 meter width eyeballing it.

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    • Which... makes the calc for it's mass kind of wrong, too. Not my much tough.

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    • Ulysses Klaue stole 0.25 tons of vibranium, which was the Vibranium sold to Ultron. Vibranium's density ranges from 2.58 to 2.68 g/cc as it is a third of the weight of steel.

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    • It's weight doesn't really matter here.

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    • Using the length and mass to find the remaining dimensions would make the pillar 0.209473507 meters in diameter, which is very clearly not the case.

      I did my math wrong. The result would be 2.40672477235 cm in diameter.

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    • Anyways, that's a surface area of 32889456.612313 meters2

      ...An energy release spread over all of that isn't giving much for the surface area of a human.

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    • Thor's cross sectional surface area was calced to be 1.14 meters^2.

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    • Woa, go a brain fart there.

      The surface is 2280.5575054645.

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    • 623790000(Tons of TNT)/32889456.612313m^2*1.14m^2~21.6 Tons of TNT (City Block level) 



      623790000(Tons of TNT)/2280.5575054645m^2*1.14m^2=311818.754 Tons of TNT (Large Town level)

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    • 2.61e+18/2280.5575054645*1.14=1.30468098e15 (High 7-C)

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    • That is fairly consistent, as that amount of energy knocked Thor out.

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    • If we are unable to find feats above 7-C, General Ross statement comparing Thor and Hulk to 30 Megaton nukes is evidence for 7-B.

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    • It occurs to me that Thor's Wakanda Storm feat (formerly calced by spino) may be worth looking at. 

      This is mostly Spino's old calc word for word, just with new numbers and methods.

      00:37, Thor creates a storm in the timespan of a jump.

      Stretches all towards the horizon and covers the sky. It took 0.76 seconds for Thor to land from that height. 

      0.5*g*t^2

      0.5*9.81*0.76^2 = 2.833128 m

      Adding 1.9 m to account Thor's height, so 4.733128 m. Then deduct 10 cm to account for the distance between Thor's head and his eyes. 4.723128 m, so horizon is 7.8 km.

      Clouds appear to be cumulonimbus.

      Using C.A.P.E.

      Assuming strong instability.

      Low End

      pi*7800^2*8000*1.003 = 1.5336632e+12 kg

      1.5336632e+12*4000=6.1346528e+15 joules or 1466182.0192 Tons of TNT (Small City level)

      High End

      pi*7800^2*11800*3*1.003 = 6.7864597e+12 kg

      6.7864597e+12*4000=2.7145839e+16 joules or 6487855.521 Tons of TNT (City level)

      Looking at other calcs, this is Thor's best storm feat, as the cloud radius is the highest here.

      Edit: Did the math wrong, fixed it.

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    • That is done in his tier 6 key. Assuming the neutron Stark gets slapped away, maybe.

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    • Yeah. I think that the neutron star feat should not be used, as Nidavellir is featless other than melting Uru and nearly killing Thor, both of which would simply scale to Thor himself. Neutron star temperature is simply to variable to choose one concrete temperature, and we do not know how much of Nidavellir's energy is actually concentrated in the beam. 

      But if we assume 600000 Kelvin (average temperature of a neutron star), and that the beam holds the same amount of energy per square meter as the rest of the surface of the star. 

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*1.14*3.6477=3.0557092e+16 joules or 7303145.04177 Tons of TNT (City level

      Surprisingly consistent with the storm creation feat.

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    • Wait, why?

      Oh wait, troll.

      I'm colorblind lol

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    • its a troll, his name is blue and misspelled

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    • Dino W wrote:
      Yeah. I think that the neutron star feat should not be used, as Nidavellir is featless other than melting Uru and nearly killing Thor, both of which would simply scale to Thor himself. Neutron star temperature is simply to variable to choose one concrete temperature, and we do not know how much of Nidavellir's energy is actually concentrated in the beam. 

      But if we assume 600000 Kelvin (average temperature of a neutron star), and that the beam holds the same amount of energy per square meter as the rest of the surface of the star. 

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*1.14*3.6477=3.0557092e+16 joules or 7303145.04177 Tons of TNT (City level

      Surprisingly consistent with the storm creation feat.

      There is another calculation by this dude and he got Mountain level as the end result

      https://youtu.be/OAX8t2bEvsA?t=420

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    • He used 1000000 Kelvin instead of 600000.

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    • Hold on, made an error in my neutron star calc.

      (5.67e-8*600000^4)*1.14=8.3770848e+15 joules or 2002123.2672 Tons of TNT (Small City level)

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    • Dino W wrote: Yeah. I think that the neutron star feat should not be used, as Nidavellir is featless other than melting Uru and nearly killing Thor, both of which would simply scale to Thor himself.

      Excuse me but ugh

      what

      Why are we spontanously deciding a calc with solid measurements approved by several calc group members is obviously inflated because

      whatever the above logic is

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    • Woah, and here I thought this guy's calc might be worth checking out

      https://youtu.be/SxEcbpAhUSk?t=605

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    • DMUA wrote:

      Excuse me but ugh

      what

      Why are we spontanously deciding a calc with solid measurements approved by several calc group members is obviously inflated because

      whatever the above logic is

      I assume its due to the greatly varied nature of nuetron stars, the older they get the cooler they are and the nuetron star presented in the movie is supposedly rather old. Beyond that not sure sorta spaced out on this thread a bit.

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    • Lack of notable gravity was also brought up, I think.

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    • Plus the whole heat revisions.

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    • Ricsi-viragosi wrote: Plus the whole heat revisions.

      You mean the one that concluded at "No we aren't getting 20 different types of durability that's dumb"

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    • I'm pretty sure that did not disregard the idea of simply giving resistance to heat instead of scaling heat to resistance to kinetic energy.

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    • It acknowledges that heat and KE can be two different things but for simplicity, we should treat durability as the same sort of thing

      Show me Thor tanking massive heat attacks yet going down to much less significant blunt impacts and maybe, but otherwise the calc is fine

      Though I guess if heat is actually inflated that's another ordeal

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    • I mean, if you want him taking high temps but getting riggity rekt by physical blows, there is literally every feat Thor has in the MCU. He takes the neutron star and Surtur's flamethrower but gets pwned by Thanos, an angry Hulk, Ultron slapping him, Loki and pointy stuff, Kurse throwing hands (and rocks) etc. None of these guys have feats anywhere close to the neutron star so why would we scale the first 2 (and what seems to be the rest of them) up to it rather than say Thor can handle X force and Y temp?

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    • If I understand the issue correctly the value used in that calc would be a nuetron star a few years after forming, the nuetron star presented in the movie is at least 6500 years old just going off the age of mjolnir and as I doubt the creation of the forge around the star conincided with the hammers creation it should be older still.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      I mean, if you want him taking high temps but getting riggity rekt by physical blows, there is literally every feat Thor has in the MCU. He takes the neutron star and Surtur's flamethrower but gets pwned by Thanos, an angry Hulk, Ultron slapping him, Loki and pointy stuff, Kurse throwing hands (and rocks) etc. None of these guys have feats anywhere close to the neutron star so why would we scale the first 2 (and what seems to be the rest of them) up to it rather than say Thor can handle X force and Y temp?


      Didn't Thanos crush the tesseract ?

      And Surtur have mentions to burn planets ... the wikia don't consider that's mentions but I don't get why Thanos feat was ignored. 

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    • Does the tesseract have any significant durability feats that makes thanos crushing it overly impressive?

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Does the tesseract have any significant durability feats that makes thanos crushing it overly impressive?

      Well, Banner said in Avengers :

      "BANNER : He's got to heat the cube to a hundredand twenty million Kelvin just to break through the Coulomb barrier."

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    • Thanos crushing the Tesseract was calced at High 6-B IIRC. But was disregarded because the Neutron Star calc was recalced at Low 6-B and Thor nearly died from it, by this making the feat and outlier.

      Then again we are supposedly turning all heat-based feats to purely resistance, so we may get Large Contry MCU back.

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    • Well, I already said that the nidavellir feats can't be only city by temperature because the tesseract feat being far above the neutron star low ball. 

      So country level still consistence by that logic.

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    • Considering the feat is even higher then the neutron star feats current high ball (The star is to old to be at the temperature the calc uses), the city busting feat and afaik nothing else in the entire mcu comes close to high 6b, seems like an outlier. Especially as thor couldn't do more then crack the city without the vibranuim heat sealed core. (Also could somone link the calc for the breaking of the tesseract?)

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Considering the feat is even higher then the neutron star feats current high ball (The star is to old to be at the temperature the calc uses), the city busting feat and afaik nothing else in the entire mcu comes close to high 6b, seems like an outlier.(Also could somone link the calc?)


      There are dozens of feast and consistency power scaling too high 6-b, but many people want to nerf MCU because like other verse more or whatever others reasons.

      You want some MCU feats and mentions who are above high 6B ? 

      - Base Thor and Loki getting rammed in the Bifrost at MFTL speed.

      - Odin creating star more than one time. 

      - MCU Ego itself and his expansion.

      - Infinity Stones.

      - Statemen (ship) flying thougth a neutron star inside a wormhole and fauce bending its metal ...

      And few more not worth to mention.

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    • Only infinity stone with anything close to high 6b was the power stone to my knowledge and we can't scale anything to it as it took some time to actual accomplish it's destructive feat, the rest of the stones are nothing more then hax.

      Ego's expansion was again overtime and didn't involve much in the way of destruction, he was going to grow across the cosmos not much of an ap feat. especially as he had to go across the universe and spread bits and peices of himself everywhere, even more his expansion was only possible after he created another being to help him spread. Ie it was impossible under his own power.  Even as a planet he didn't do much that was overly impressive to my knowledge.

      Id need to see a clac for the bifrost impact to make anything of it.

      Odin created stars? Sounds like a solid feat! How long did it take? How did he do it? Should have that calced.

      Don't know enough about the last feat to comment.

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    • Odin creating stars would be an outlier.

      Bifrost is more of a teleportation technique than an amp for, and getting rammed MFTL would get stuped results as hitting someone at light speed would be High 3-A alone.

      The rest is wrong for reasons that have been explained hundreds of times.

      Drop the subject.

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    • Newendigo wrote:

      The rest is wrong for reasons that have been explained hundreds of times.

      Drop the subject.


      I never see the fauce's feat being explained, only ignored for none reason like Dr.strange transforming the infinity stone in "a star". 

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    • The Statesman flying through a wormhole would have to withstand the gravity of the neutron star I guess, but I'm not sure how we would get an energy value out of that. We don't know how far the Statesman is from the neutron star. It is mentioned to be a "collapsing" neutron star, which could mean it's a quark star or maybe even black hole? But that seems dubious, and I really have no idea how to quantify that feat, nor does anyone scale to it other than Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      I mean, if you want him taking high temps but getting riggity rekt by physical blows, there is literally every feat Thor has in the MCU. He takes the neutron star and Surtur's flamethrower but gets pwned by Thanos, an angry Hulk, Ultron slapping him, Loki and pointy stuff, Kurse throwing hands (and rocks) etc. None of these guys have feats anywhere close to the neutron star so why would we scale the first 2 (and what seems to be the rest of them) up to it rather than say Thor can handle X force and Y temp?

      Only thing is though that only 2 of those 6 characters harmed awakened Thor. The ONLY Characters who harmed awakened Thor were Thanos, Hulk, and Hela. For Ultron and Kurse, it seems like they warrant a downgrade due to inconsistencies, not try to remove tier 6 from the MCU

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    • And Awakened Thor is irrelevant. Base Thor performed the neutron star feat so all of those guys are applicable as anti-feats. The only thing Awakened Thor performed was the Wakanda storm.

      We currently scale Surtur to 7-A for fighting Mjolnir Thor but then a few minutes later we have 7-A Thor (weaker than against Surtur) clapping calm Hulk who is apparently Tier 6, gets angry and beats up Thor before lightning mode shows up where he wrecks ass. Unless that rage amp lets him jump tiers, we have issues with the current scaling.

      Hulk (Tier 6) < Sakaar Thor (Tier 7) < angry Hulk (Tier 6) <  Awakened Thor (Tier 6)

      Someone is gonna have to point me to the part of the movie where he magically gets stronger in base because lightning mode is not it. Even before getting it, he was able to harm Hela and take hits from her in base which would put her at 7-A cuz he is weaker than Mjolnir Thor. Please don't bother bringing up Gungnir cuz that only makes King Loki and Thor 1 Tier 6 and I am sure no one wants to pull that pin. It also ends up with Base Thor scaling to what I have been saying, just in a different tier, which makes everything I said before applicable as anti-feats.

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    • Is there any point in Ragnarok that says Hulk got stronger?

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    • To a tier jumping extent, I mean.

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    • Nope. Nothing suggests anyone gets stronger aside from lightning mode and rage amp which would both still be within whatever tier the base was in.

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    • Well... let's first downgrade 7-A, then discuss tier 6 after?

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    • Aight.

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    • I think we decided that everything after Thor: Ragnarok counts as Awakened Thor. Since "Awakened Thor" is basically after he realises his true power. He doesn't have to go lightning mode or something.

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    • Anyway I agree let's discuss 7-A first. Is there anyway we can calculate the energy Thor tanked?

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    • I still don't get the 7-A downgrade, I mean didn't Prime Surtur destroying Asgard calc at High 6-C as well as Hela in her weakest state casually crushing Mjolnir calc at High 6-C? 

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    • Thor has 2 keys. Pre-Ragnarok and Post-Awakening

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    • Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan wrote:
      Thor has 2 keys. Pre-Ragnarok and Post-Awakening

      So we're discussing Pre-Ragnarok now?

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    • RanaProGamer wrote:

      Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan wrote:
      Thor has 2 keys. Pre-Ragnarok and Post-Awakening

      So we're discussing Pre-Ragnarok now?

      Yes for now.

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    • base Thor didn't do anything to hela. It was only awakened Thor who did that

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    • We still need the calc of Thor tanking sokovia

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    • But base Thor hold his on agaist saakar Hulk who is low country. 

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    • Luck100 wrote:
      But base Thor hold his on agaist saakar Hulk who is low country. 

      Base Thor held his own against that hulk. However, some form of Hulk should still be Low 6-B due to fighting Thanos

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    • As far as I am awere, Hulk is never said or implied to have gotten much more powerful.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      And Awakened Thor is irrelevant. Base Thor performed the neutron star feat so all of those guys are applicable as anti-feats. The only thing Awakened Thor performed was the Wakanda storm.

      We currently scale Surtur to 7-A for fighting Mjolnir Thor but then a few minutes later we have 7-A Thor (weaker than against Surtur) clapping calm Hulk who is apparently Tier 6, gets angry and beats up Thor before lightning mode shows up where he wrecks ass. Unless that rage amp lets him jump tiers, we have issues with the current scaling.

      Hulk (Tier 6) < Sakaar Thor (Tier 7) < angry Hulk (Tier 6) <  Awakened Thor (Tier 6)

      Someone is gonna have to point me to the part of the movie where he magically gets stronger in base because lightning mode is not it. Even before getting it, he was able to harm Hela and take hits from her in base which would put her at 7-A cuz he is weaker than Mjolnir Thor. Please don't bother bringing up Gungnir cuz that only makes King Loki and Thor 1 Tier 6 and I am sure no one wants to pull that pin. It also ends up with Base Thor scaling to what I have been saying, just in a different tier, which makes everything I said before applicable as anti-feats.

      Awakened Thor destroyed Bifrost bridge in a single lightning bolt, while base Thor required 10 blows to destroy it. 

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    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote:
      base Thor didn't do anything to hela. It was only awakened Thor who did that

      Hela barely flinched from base Thor's blows while Awakened Thor managed to slam her

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    • If there is a problem for the Low 6-B calc, we still have two 6-C feats and one High 6-C.

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    • There is no Low 6-C rating <-<

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    • ^?

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    • Okay and? That means he is stronger than his base which was already established. It doesn't explain how Thor jumped 4 sub tiers when people he takes multiple hits from in base can get up from those tier 6 hits.

      Flinching has nothing to do with dura. Thor ran her through. Flinch or no, he still blatantly damaged her.

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    • Newendigo wrote:
      If there is a problem for the Low 6-C calc, we still have two 6-C feats and one High 6-C.

      It goes from High 7-A to 6-C, not Low 6-C

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    • I have no idea what you are even trying to come with...

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    • Newendigo wrote:
      I have no idea what you are even trying to come with...

      You wrote Low 6-C instead of Low 6-B

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    • What Low 6-C calc are you talking about btw?

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    • What a joke.

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    • What are the other 6c/high 6c feats?

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    • Hela choked base Thor with one hand which Thor couldn't free using both of his hands. And Hela was weakened at that time. 

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    • So weakened Hela has better lifting than him, still doesn't change Thor running her through.

      @Pen

      One of the 6-C ones is Tony taking the meteor on Titan. Not sure about the others.

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    • So, should we do that powerscalling ?

      Thor (base) =< Saakar Hulk < Awakened Thor < Hela < Stormbreaker Thor (probaly fat too).

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    • Can anyone calculate Uru's durability from the snap feat? The snap released enough energy to be sensed across light years. And Thanos tanked it. Twice. 

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    • Or we can just calculate the mass of 6 infinity stones and atomize them. 

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    • The energy tanked by thanos is mostly gamma radiation, which is why thanos has a solid resistance to radiation, its not a durability feat overall as we know the user simply has to resist the gamma radiation to a large enough extent to use the stones without dying. More importantly the stones are mostly hax to my knowledge.

      Was the mass of the stones ever stated?

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    • We need density mensure of Uru to calcule it's durability.

      The snap I think would be pretty close to star levels.

      And the atomization of 6 gems I don't know.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      So weakened Hela has better lifting than him, still doesn't change Thor running her through.

      @Pen

      One of the 6-C ones is Tony taking the meteor on Titan. Not sure about the others.

      I need the clip of Thor running her. 

      Here's the throne room fight.  The only time Thor harmed Hela here was with Gungnir

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      What are the other 6c/high 6c feats?

      Iron Man tanking the meteor that Thanos throw at him.

      Captain Larson destroying Thanos' spaceship (Can't find the calc, but it was 6-C IIRC, but I could be wrong).

      Scratch the High 6-C, is actually 6-C.

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    • It's been a while can someone link the calc for him tanking the meteor?

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    • Newendigo wrote:
      The pen or the sword wrote:
      What are the other 6c/high 6c feats?
      Iron Man tanking the meteor that Thanos throw at him.

      Captain Larson destroying Thanos' spaceship (Can't find the calc, but it was 6-C IIRC, but I could be wrong).

      Scratch the High 6-C, is actually 6-C.

      Captain Larson tanking Kree bombs actually. It was High 6-C.

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    • Pen@ Radiation is still a form of energy output AFAIK. It can be converted into joules.

      The Meteor calc is listed in Iron Man's profile.

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    • Thanks, As for converting radiation to joules, is it possible? Ive never seen it (Probably because we treat radiation as dura neg on this site)

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    • Depends on what kind of radiation, but that kind of energy really should scale to raw AP without some good reasoning.

      As for the meteor calc... I have no idea where the pixel scaling comes from. Watched the video, can't find one instance where you can see all of the meteor and ironman to pixel scale it with.

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    • Limited, and material with high enough density (Or durability) would be uneffected by certain levels of radiation.

      For example, X-Ray can penetrate the flesh of a human, but not their bones.

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    • That doesn't affect my point. Radiation can be anything from the realease of stray subatoms to the energy (like vibration of them) "radiating" out as it's passed onto other atoms nearby.

      Do you know what kind of radiation this is specifically?

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    • its called gamma radiation in the movie, iirc but it has some...Odd properties to say the least/

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    • Ricsi@ I was talking to Pen...

      Sweating
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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      its called gamma radiation in the movie, iirc but it has some...Odd properties to say the least/

      I don't think there is a proper way to calc photons penetrating for durability.

      Newendigo wrote:
      Ricsi@ I was talking to Pen...

      Point stays still, gamma radiation is photons moving with electromagnetic fields. Density is far more important against them than durability.

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    • So not really calculable/ap applicable due to the type of radiation?

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    • I don't think so, though mabe I'm just not awere.

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    • Hard to see, is there a higher qaulity scan? It kinda looks like she's blowing them up before flying through, but it's quite blurry. Also doesn't she fly through other explosions?

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    • I'll get screen shots.

      But heads up, if you destroy or blow up a bomb before it can blow, there's a good chance it's not going to blow as well or at all like it should. Nukes most of all would do up and nothing.

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    • BecauseScience made a video about it and he calced the energy to be 54 billions of joules.

      What you guys think?

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    • That's hella weak. I'm not sure tough.

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    • might have been different missiles, because the one they bombed a planet with got way bigger explosions

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    • Ricsi-viragosi wrote:
      That's hella weak. I'm not sure tough.

      Really?

      How much is 54 Billions Js in terms of Tons?

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    • DMUA wrote:

      might have been different missiles, because the one they bombed a planet with got way bigger explosions

      That or she just destroyed them before they could detonate. Stuff that powerfull by all means should have some pretty complicated procedure, and the missiles do seem kinda high-tech.

      But the result is the same, she wouldn't scale to those... unless the ships are shown tanking stuff like that.

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    • Was a calc ever done for the missles she's shown flying through?

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    • Newendigo wrote:
      BecauseScience made a video about it and he calced the energy to be 54 billions of joules.

      What you guys think?

      He assumes "power a continent" as the energy output of a snap, which is just... no.

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    • Newendigo wrote:

      Really?

      How much is 54 Billions Js in terms of Tons?

      12.906309751434 tons of tnt. That's tier 8.

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    • Drite77
      Drite77 removed this reply because:
      hec you Ricsi, you gosh damn ninja
      19:14, November 30, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Was a calc ever done for the missles she's shown flying through?

      Yes. 

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    • Drite77 wrote:

      12,906309751434 Tons of TNT

      NinjaFatPrincess
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    • =(

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    • Those are't the explosions she flies through/tanks though? The explosions shes exposed to seem notably smaller possibly due to being a different model or the fact she blast them before flying through. Either way she's not tankning the explosion in that scene unless im missing something (Further she flies through after the explosions have detonated....So she should only get a fraction of the overall energy unless Im mistaken)

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    • Tier 8 Thanos then.

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    • The pen or the sword wrote:
      Those are't the explosions she flies through/tanks though? The explosions shes exposed to seem notably smaller possibly due to being a different model or the fact she blast them before flying through. Either way she's not tankning the explosion in that scene unless im missing something

      The missiles are the same. Stated so, and shown to look exactly the same (1:41:10).

      I've got the scans, will post in a sec.

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    • Okay. How much to light up an entire continent?

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    • So Im guessing them looking far smaller is due to her blasting them out of the air? OR just common Hollywood inconsistency

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    • Revan Laha wrote:
      Okay. How much to light up an entire continent?

      To light up a continent, not that much. I don't remember the formula for light calcs tough... Percy Jackson had one, will go back to look at it if needed.

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    • Nearly lighting a planet barely reachs into tier eight iirc luminosity calcs are really weak afaik

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    • I recall Key Issues making his own calc with higher results.

      But, he assumes with "Light up" it means "Blow up". I assume that's not getting accepted.

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    • Just a FYI, lighting the entire planet is like, 7-B+, so an entire continent is not that great

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    • TheMissile

      The first missile

      YeetTheBomb

      She yeets it back at the others

      Exploooosion

      It explodes (on it's own)...

      ChainPlothole

      ...which causes a chain reaction, making them all explode (and it's not one explosion. They all, individually detonate)

      So... yeah, no. The explosions are the missiles detonating, and they are not even close to a hundred meters wide.

      Edit: This happens at 1:41:00 of the movie. 

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    • There was a High 6-C Power Rangers calc for illuminating half of the world

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    • Revan Laha wrote:
      There was a High 6-C Power Rangers calc for illuminating half of the world
      6883 hyperthonking
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