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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3732384
    10:43, November 20, 2019

    Please report any rule violations in this thread. Notifying us of such incidents is highly appreciated.

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    • @Rin

      You have a point there, i'm not suggesting ban or another warning at all but rather it need to be looking for, and also Mindovin summaries better than me

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3664546?useskin=oasis

      Malomtek is intentionally derailing this thread with provocative comments. Can someone send him a message on his wall to permanently stop this behavior?

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    • To be fair, other members had apparently provoked him quite a lot before that, and it was only one comment that I know of.

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    • While Malomtek does need to calm down, he was only doing so with good motives and was trying to teach the actual violators a lesson. While not everyone was overboard, several of them were really hostile. And he was trying to defend me and Matt. Still a lowclass method, but nothing ban worthy. And I already asked him not to go too far into it.

      And he was provoked because people were attacking me and Matt.

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    • Agreed.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      To be fair, other members had apparently provoked him quite a lot before that, and it was only one comment that I know of.

      His very first comment on the thread was attacking Sonic fans. No one was provoking him.

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    • Yeah, he just kept attacking Sonic fans, and I don't think it was because other people were doing stuff, and even then it doesn't excuse you of trolling because people were arguing

      But he should get a warning to not do things like that again at least

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    • The thread in general seemed horrible, I say this to people on both sides, both people in favor and those in not, regular users as well as certain staff contributed to it

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    • Agreed Andy, I slept and when I woke up boom, there was that mess

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    • Just noticed that there are even more people on the thread who derailed, insulted, attacked, etc before Malomtek even showed up. No need to single out one user. Several people on that thread would get a warning by that logic.

      As far as the thread goes, the matter is okay now. You all need to go chill.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: While Malomtek does need to calm down, he was only doing so with good motives and was trying to teach the actual violators a lesson. Still a lowclass method, but nothing ban worthy. And I already asked him not to go too far into it.

      And he was provoked because people were attacking me and Matt.

      I don't want to clog up a fresh RVR thread, but are you serious?

      A certain staff comes in with the very intention of getting people hostile, if not something similar, and the people who respond in justified anger are the violaters? This has to be a joke.

      I will 100% agree that both sides were unnecessarily hostile, and in all reality Matt's comments should've just been ignored, but how are you gonna try to pin it on us as if we did something indescribably horrible? If somebody spits on you and you throw a punch, are you a mindless brute for doing so? Two wrongs don't make a right, but you're acting as of we were the only ones doing wrong.

      Anyways, I've said my part. I apologize for the derailment.

      Edit: Sorry Andy, I didn't mean to post after you.

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    • I agree with AKM sama.

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    • Also, for the love of Gawd, people, grow a thicker skin. You’re all for real insults and trash talking when it’s on Discord and “just venting” but the second someone (namely Matt) calls out your crap you act like he’s being hostile, despite the stuff being said there being objectively worse and far more insulting than “your argument sucks, mate”.

      Attacking someone’s arguments is not hostile, it is not a personal attack on that person. Yes, Matt and Malom’s first few comments weren’t productive at all and they need to chill out for real, but at the same time you lot are acting like they called you homeless bums with no life or something.

      I’m all for being polite and civil, and I’m against making unproductive comments (it’s something even I need to work on sometimes), but Jebus Chris Unmighty, stop being so fragile. Most people that were “insulted” clearly overreacted.

      Grow up, people of both sides.

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    • I agree with Sera and AKM.

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    • Sera EX wrote:
      Yes, Matt and Malom’s first few comments weren’t productive at all and they need to chill out for real, but at the same time you lot are acting like they called you homeless bums with no life or something.
      I feel attacked.
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    • That assessment strikes me as more than a little bit unfair, Sera.

      You're telling me that Matthew gets to walk into a thread, intentionally coax people into calling him out in an attempt to prove some point and all he needs to do is "chill out for real"? Do you not see the irony of him "calling us out" about something that is only caused because of his actions? Worse still, when people go on Discord to vent to one another about their frustrations about this sort of behavior from him (which is a reoccurring issue with him and other members) you come here and try to use that as tool to say "the things you say are objectively worse", even though him acting this way on the wiki and people complaining about it to their friends off-site are not at all comparable situations.

      Not only that, but saying stuff like: "you lot are acting like they called you homeless bums with no life or something." or trying to write off this reaction as "fragility" on our part is grossly misrepresenting the source of our frustration in regards to Matthew and trying to frame it as disproportional response, as if this was the first time anything like this little tantrum of his has ever happened and not the hundredth.

      Also, I'd like to note that his comments were aimed at all, or at least many, of the Sonic supporters in the thread, and when people rightfully call him out for it, others take the opportunity to frame it as him "getting ganged up on", or several members responding to it "only proving him right", when that makes no sense if you're talking about someone who addressed several people at once with his unfair statements.

      Furthermore, if you want to talk about fragility, I'd suggest you take a look at the fit DDM threw in regards to people saying bad poopoo words on Discord and likening it to actual murder.

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    • I’m going to stop you right there, since you have a habit of running your mouth and just say that I clearly acknowledged what Matt did as unproductive and unnecessary, so there’s nothing unfair about it. And no “grow a thicker skin” wasn’t targeted specifically at Sonic supporters, but the site as a whole because there’s even staff that act like the slightest critique of their character or argument is an insult when it isn’t.

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    • Sera does have a good point about that there are massive double standards at work when the same members who overreact to others somewhat rudely disagreeing with them, launch much more severe attacks towards them elsewhere, but this is not the right place to talk about it, and we should stop now.

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    • Well, I hope things get resolved later. I supported the 2-B but there was so much back and forth and people bringing up things that were already talked about over and over, that I don’t whether the whole thing was true, or even if it was false.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3430319#147

      Supreme of Universe resorts to middle school insults because he is unable to accept that Oblivion loses.

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    • LordUrien935 wrote:
      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3430319#147

      Supreme of Universe resorts to middle school insults because he is unable to accept that Oblivion loses.

      If you look at his wall he’s been warned for hostile behavior before and clearly didn’t shape up. A block might be in order.

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    • Looks like both him and Obscenly were being toxic on that thread.

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    • Ok my wifi cut that’s great

      Essentially, I think Supreme should get a strict warning for what he said on that last thread. Although he was provoked, he clearly went against the rules.

      Considering giving Obscenly a warning too

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    • Okay. Feel free to do so.

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    • @Sera

      I mean you no disrespect, but whatever habits you think I have are irrelevant to what I've said here.
      The premise of your assessment being unfair is not based on whether or not you acknowledged Matthew's actions as unproductive. The point is that it is unfair in spite of that, for the myriad reasons I brought up, including but not limited to how much of slap on the wrist it came across in comparison to how you addressed what you perceive to be our misconduct.

      So, when you said "(namely Matt)" and "Most people that were “insulted” clearly overreacted." Did that not include the Sonic supporters in specific? Because, and I may be missing some context here, I figured that bit of context was meant to indicate you were talking specifically about the whole fiasco with the blog.
      If you really weren't addressing the 2-B thread I'll just retract what I've said, since it is what my criticism of your comment is based on.

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    • I commented.

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    • GyroNutz wrote:

      Considering giving Obscenly a warning too

      I gave Obscenly a general warning since he was very frequent with slurs (the main one being the R-Word) and showing irrational hostility

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    • Zark2099 wrote:

      GyroNutz wrote:

      Considering giving Obscenly a warning too

      I gave Obscenly a general warning since he was very frequent with slurs (the main one being the R-Word) and showing irrational hostility

      With a name like that, is it any surprise that the person does that?

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    • Both Obscenely and Supreme both look very suspicious. Their usernames aside, the hostility towards each other being great between the R words, or sexual harassment towards "Your Mother" related comments. Furthermore, I personally get vibes that Supreme has Saitama as his avatar in combination with his hostility. Not going to jump the gun and say it's Jonathan since I heard he decided to move on with his life, but it could be someone impersonating him; which is just as suspicious.

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    • I doubt that it is Jonathan. From what I remember he has lost interest in trolling, and was never comparatively all that bad to start with.

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    • User:TataHakaiJr obvious troll.

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    • Blocked

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    • Thank you.

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    • Thank you for helping out.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: Both Obscenely and Supreme both look very suspicious. Their usernames aside, the hostility towards each other being great between the R words, or sexual harassment towards "Your Mother" related comments. Furthermore, I personally get vibes that Supreme has Saitama as his avatar in combination with his hostility. Not going to jump the gun and say it's Jonathan since I heard he decided to move on with his life, but it could be someone impersonating him; which is just as suspicious.

      So what should we do about these members?

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    • Zark already gave them the warnings, so I think we can just wait for now. If they continue to act up, we could block them. But I think they're fine for now.

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    • Okay. Thank you for the help.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3667021#79

      I doubt he'll even try to appear again, but in case he does, I think CorrectingYourMistakes needs a good warning. He was unnecessarily hoatile declaring others wankers, which is itself not a big deal, but was also antagonistic to the whole website saying we had no clue what we were doing and came here to "correct us". I really couldn't careless and he can have his opinion, but this smells like someone that will be an immense pain in any thread he tries to partake in. This is more of a "keep an eye on him".

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    • He seems like a troll ngl, as looking through his edits, the only thing he did was wank his own characters and badmouth the wiki, while calling whoever he was arguing with as kids, so yeah either an obnoxious idiot or an ineffective troll. Might be personal bias on my part however, so...

      Nonetheless he should get a warning I suppose

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    • Don't like to be a snitch, but a fella called MLP fans pedophiles in this thread. Deserves a warning

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    • I gave him a warning on that thread.

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    • A dude got banned for that a few days ago, a two week ban. Considering that person was much more insistent/unapologetic/inflammatory than this dude is (from what I can tell), I think a lighter punishment is in order despite the similarity between the cases.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/A_Stoned_Orc

      I don't know what the hell is literally wrong with this dude's problem, but by reading his comment on my blog that I'm still working on is the biggest troll I have ever encounter in this site. He didn't even wait for me to finish my blog, and he already started harassing me because of it.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:JohnCenaNation/Major_Naruto_Content_Revision_Thread:

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    • That link breaks when clicking, anyone interested use this link instead.

      For my personal thoughts, none of A Stone Orc's replies on that blog seem like trolling or harassment, just responding as most users do to the content of a blog.

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    • That URL links to a blank page for me. But looking at the actual blog, I didn't see any trolling or anything report worthy. All I saw was just some standard debating.

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    • Another person saying MLP fans are pedos?

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    • I agree with Agnaa and Medeus. I went through the comments. Stoned Orc seems to be genuinely debating, not harassing.

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    • Yep, Stoned Orc basically did nothing wrong, and if you were so worried of people commenting on your unfinished blog, JohnCenaNation, you should've unchecked the commenting section before publishing it, and then rechecked it once you were done. It wouldn't be trolling nonetheless anyhow, unless you wanna argue the staff that visited the page are trolling too

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    • Thank you for helping out.

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    • SsjKale100 (a new account), has been posting in a manner that appears designed to stir up trouble between the Naruto and Bleach fandom: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3689771#35

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3688772#36

      On two threads specifically for Naruto characters he has started posting about Bleach, and complaining about unfair treatment.

      He's also complaining that I have a "hate boner" for Naruto: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3689771#37

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    • I gave him a warning, if he acts up more, I may ban him.

      Edit: I actually noticed he uploaded this video, and his account name is Yella Ninja, who is a well known sock. I think it might be safe to ban him. All in favor?

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    • Should be fine to ban him then if that's the case.

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    • Yes, ban Him.

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    • I have blocked him.

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    • I was told to make this report for Corgi the Gen Z God aka Violet Void. His official final warning was this. It has been a almost 2 months and this was three threads ago, but his behavior hasn't really changed for better at all.

      You can see on the same thread if you scroll down to the bottom that he persisted on spamming, and he got really upset at me for removing his posts. A pretty common job here that's literally stated in the OP not to derail. But I'll get to stuff like that later.

      He also said more stuff here right out of the blue. Specifically these four comments here. He insulted Cal behind his back when he wasn't even on the thread.

      And there are many other examples in an above thread linked above. To quote Sera, quite literally everyone on the website needs to grow some thicker skin, or even everyone off site as well. But Corgi was being explosive and acting like trash talking the wiki offsite especially with the severity of it in context, when they get explosive about Matt for simply saying "The arguments don't hold up."

      I also feel I should link these scans. Aside from some drama which Violet Void was banned by Mr Bambu for. There was also the link of him sending Wokistan a false report based on personal vendatta. He claimed I called him "The worst person ever" when if you read what I actually said, I simply said he was "One of the worst people to violate Fandom's terms of service"; which is vastly different. And in actuality, the comments were removed just for derailment. I also feel the need to quote Bambu that trash talking the wiki on Discord is not an excuse to performing awful duties just because it happened behind closed doors.

      Sera also said she has her two cents, but I'll let her comment.

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    • This seems like enough grounds to ban him. He has had his chances. The off site stuff should probably be handled elsewhere though as it didn't happen on the wiki.

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    • I support a ban

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    • I second the ban.

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    • I’ll wait for more staff before commenting.

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    • Yeah, Violet's been generally problematic in most threads I come across involving him, and the cal stuff is legit disruptive and rude, so I'd vouch for a month long ban for him.

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    • I'll come back to defend myself. This is not right and it's essentially bringing back old beef months ago. But I'm at work so I can't really do much rn.

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    • I would appreciate input from more staff members regarding this.

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    • Corgi the Gen Z God wrote: I'll come back to defend myself. This is not right and it's essentially bringing back old beef months ago. But I'm at work so I can't really do much rn.

      If you're continuing behaviour that you got told to stop months ago, then it's okay to "bring back old beef".

      @DDM From what I can tell and remember he wasn't spamming the old RVT, he was arguing to defend himself incessantly to the point where he was disrupting the thread. I think this is a really important distinction to make, and isn't something worth banning over, since his warn had nothing to do with that.

      Those horrid "unjustified insults behind Cal's back!" are a real nothingburger imo. "Cal is biased against sonic" is really contributing to a member getting banned? His other three messages were him not understanding why you'd take an issue with it, no insults or bad behaviour.

      Those "other examples in the thread linked above" were already dealt with with a warning, he should only get in trouble if he continues behaviour, he shouldn't get in trouble for something he was already reported for months ago if there's no more substance.

      After reading those Discord scans, all the ones are bad are the ones he got his last warning for. I think the way you're portraying his HR group report is overblown and really goes against the spirit of what we should be aiming for with HR group.

      All of those seem like things that a member not very familiar with the rules could reasonably consider reportable offenses. It seems reasonable enough to mistake "The worse person ever" with "One of the worst people to violate Fandom's terms of service", I know that myself and many many others have had miscommunications on that level before. Remembering something you're upset about a little different from reality isn't a false report - it's something that HR group should look into and realize (as I assume they did here).

      You deleting his posts definitely isn't a reportable offence, but imo just sending a single report to HR group over one non-reportable offence shouldn't be considered a violation on a user's part, as this heavily discourages people from sending reports to HR group. I want HR group to ultimately be a thing people feel comfortable submitting reports about staff members to, even if not every report ends up resulting in the staff member being found in the wrong.

      tl;dr most of this is old, the new stuff is one insanely minor insult of calling a person biased for one verse, and one misguided HR group report. None of this should result in Corgi being banned.

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    • If it's older than when he got his final warning then I'm against a ban.

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    • I haven't seen the other stuff, but I will note that it's definitely not a fake report. (Also, how do you even have pics of my dms?Edit: He sent pics to a server that ddm got pics from, so that's just on him.)

      Screenshot (397)

      It was said "You're legit one of the worst people here who the violates community guidelines by using inappropriate words and ignores warnings as Antvasima said." Now you may not have meant it like that, but even I read that as saying that he was one of the worst people in general and saying that he violated guidelines as the reasoning for it. There's also that the only difference between "worst person" and "worst person who violates the guidelines" is semantic at best.

      I also agree with agnaa on that trying to get someone banned because he reported someone to HR just makes people not want to do that. It'd be one thing if it was doctored or whatever, but I went and checked and as you can see from my screenshot, that statement very much happened and we'd handle that ourselves anyways.

      Now, as for the on site thing: They did happen after the warning, but given that Cal himself has literally admitted to that bias I really don't see how that's banworthy. Abrasive sure, but banning people for saying someone else is biased just seems real dumb. The other 4 comments are from the same thing, as opposed to being 4 other instances.

      This is just everyone giving everyone rather minor insults and trying to get one another in trouble over it, except it happened months ago and got resurrected now for some reason.

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    • Disagree with the ban for Aggnas and Wok's reasons

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    • I have been told that VioletVoid/Corgi has also behaved very badly via Discord.

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    • After reading those Discord scans, all the ones are bad are the ones he got his last warning for.

      There’s plenty more where those came from, though. A lot of them after he received his final warning.

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    • Antvasima wrote: I have been told that VioletVoid/Corgi has also behaved very badly via Discord.

      You're gonna ban someone for behaving badly off-site?

      It'd be different if he was messaging people from the wiki and starting to cause trouble, but he hasn't done so with the intention of causing an issue. That's all I really had to say, I'm not gonna give input on the rest.

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    • I don't think he should be banned for things off site if they don't affect the wikia, it's like banning for things people might say irl for example, but I don't want to get involved into this off site talk

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    • Offsite behavior shouldn't be a factor at all if it is not relayed here.

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    • I thought that he had been causing trouble with some of our members via Discord, but I am not certain. Sera is better informed than I am.

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    • @Shake

      Mate, we banned a full group of people including staff and ex-staff for the Discord fiasco last year due to how it impacted the site.

      I told you this before. Also, as Mr. Bambu said, “off-site” doesn’t automatically mean you can say what you like, especially if it’s heavily involving vs battle wiki users.

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    • If most of the stuff is from the past for which he was already warned, then I'm with Agnaa.

      However, I agree that stuff that happens in discord shouldn't be brushed aside completely (at this point I don't know about what happened there exactly, I'm just speaking in general). It tells a lot about a person's mindset, motives and behavioural patterns and it was the reason why the whole "discord" incident took place.

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    • @Ant As far as I can tell that was all part of the last report

      @Sera And I thought I responded to those? But looking over them there's one I failed to respond to. Where Corgi said "I'm yeeting on DDM's mom to this song" from one day after he got warned. Knowing what yeet means I don't think this is meant to imply r*ping DDM's mom as DDM suggested. I don't think this adds enough substance to make Corgi bannable.

      We banned that group on the Discord because they were working behind the scenes to get various staff members banned, as well as spreading personal photos of users. Can you see the difference in scale between that and "yeet on your mom"?

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    • Agreed petty schoolyard insults =/= docking.

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    • @Agnaa

      You didn’t. There’s way more scans than those linked above that not only involve Corgi, but several others as well. Have you seen the insults towards Dragonmaster for example? How about the one where he says “Sera is married and ugly”? I’m not sure you have because from what I’ve seen in that link, it’s only a few scans.

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    • If petty schoolyard insults is nothing to get upset over, so is a boomer-ex admin calling someone a wanker.

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    • @Sera If they weren't linked as evidence I can't have seen them, and can't base my evaluation on this report off of them.

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    • He got banned from vs central. The other one is probably still pretty bad (haven't looked at it in a while) but last time I did it was just bad in general and not as directly linked to vbw besides people not liking ddm and matt.

      Someone calling someone a wanker really isn't worth getting upset over. I believe we established that it wasn't worth reporting

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    • I support a ban.

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    • I was told to make this report for Corgi the Gen Z God aka Violet Void. His official final warning was this. It has been a almost 2 months and this was three threads ago, but his behavior hasn't really changed for better at all.

      “His behavior hasn't really changed for better at all.”? One can find evidence to the contrary in this very thread. If you were to scroll above and check his most recent messages (where he is addressing the staff member “Sera EX”), you can see he is presenting his criticisms in a reserved and collected demeanor, especially when compared to the other RVT.


      You can see on the same thread if you scroll down to the bottom that he persisted on spamming, and he got really upset at me for removing his posts. A pretty common job here that's literally stated in the OP not to derail. But I'll get to stuff like that later.

      If memory doesn’t fail me, due to the existence of documentation of the incident, which happens to include some screenshots of some of the messages before their deletion, it was called into question by Corgi whether or not your basis for deleting those messages were as simple and straightforward as would be indicated by your statements here.
      If we are to bring this incident into the table as a piece of evidence to support your assertions here, I’m sure you’d agree that said documentation should also be presented in order to provide more fair and accurate insight to what happened and why Corgi had concerns regarding the matter (as already has been done to some extent through the conversation with Wokistan you’ve shared bellow).


      He also said more stuff here right out of the blue. Specifically these four comments here. He insulted Cal behind his back when he wasn't even on the thread.

      These are not insults. He simply stated his opinion regarding the behavior of a certain member in regards to how they feel about a certain verse.
      Yes, it was unnecessary and not constructive, but he did drop the subject. I don’t see how this is any different from the behavior recently displayed by a certain member in the Sonic Shuffle 2-B thread, who was reprimanded with what amounts to a relative smack on the wrist, nor how this minor offense is at all a significant factor towards getting him banned.


      And there are many other examples in an above thread linked above. To quote Sera, quite literally everyone on the website needs to grow some thicker skin, or even everyone off site as well. But Corgi was being explosive and acting like trash talking the wiki offsite especially with the severity of it in context, when they get explosive about Matt for simply saying "The arguments don't hold up."

      I’m pretty sure Corgi addressed this very same "explosive off-site behavior" complaint you’re making in his reply to Sera EX. From what I see, the arguments he made are quite sound and valid, so unless you have a counter for those, I think it covers this point well enough.
      Furthermore, saying something on Discord, on servers unrelated to the Wiki in any substantial official capacity is in no way comparable to saying something in the wiki and shouldn’t be treated as an even remotely equivalent offense.


      I also feel I should link these scans. Aside from some drama which Violet Void was banned by Mr Bambu for. There was also the link of him sending Wokistan a false report based on personal vendatta. He claimed I called him "The worst person ever" when if you read what I actually said, I simply said he was "One of the worst people to violate Fandom's terms of service"; which is vastly different. And in actuality, the comments were removed just for derailment. I also feel the need to quote Bambu that trash talking the wiki on Discord is not an excuse to performing awful duties just because it happened behind closed doors.

      These comments are not based on any personal vendettas, that is pure conjecture on your part. Rather, it was based on valid concerns Corgi had in regards to the behavior of a moderator that he then voiced to HR. Which, to my understanding at least, is a perfectly acceptable thing for a user like him to do.
      These are relatively comparable statements, or at least ones that can be reasonably be understood as comparable statements, so it’s not like he was making that much of a stretch. Either way, he also voiced other concerns, as seen in the screenshots themselves, so it’s not like it makes that much of a difference. At most he misunderstood something you said and got the idea you were making a more egregious claim than you actually were, which given the least bit of credit can just be written off as a reasonable mistake. Also, while he has made some rude comments off-site and he’s admittedly not the most tactful person, he did not do it with the intention of spreading it onto the wiki itself.

      I don't see why he should be banned.

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    • I’m not too comfortable with my unofficial server’s rulings being used to back up a ban here, but otherwise, this makes sense.

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    • I'm speaking in general, sure insults aren't pleasant but escalating it to the point of being compared to legitimate criminal activity is too much imo, either way I won't waste any more time on this thread, since I'm not experienced with this kind of scenario (I'll just have to hope the system takes it's due course).

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    • Wasn't several people (I.E, LordXCano) banned for insulting members off-site?

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    • The reasoning on his log is that he leaked info on 4chan, not just insults I think

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    • I'm still supporting a ban. Corgi is a really aggresive person, along with how he r-slured Ant on MYHERO's discord, and keep in mind, a number of users got banned in a ban wave for insulting Ant and others on discord. This includes Filfourne, Unite My Rice, Thebluedash, etc., who where staff members once

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    • Void’s only recurring problem post-final warning on-site is his deranged view of the staff being corrupt people that want to make everyone’s little hobby frustrating when they’re just doing their jobs.

      Is this ban worthy? No. Is he a pain to talk to and try to reason with? Absolutely.

      I’m neutral here because I don’t want anything to do with him. If Medeus wants to post his assortment of scans later, he’s welcome to. I’m just tired of being a part of this bullshit just because I’m a fan and knowledgeable member of Sonic. It’s why I’m retiring from the verse entirely. I’d rather not be a part of this anymore.

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: Wasn't several people (I.E, LordXCano) banned for insulting members off-site?

      Matthew Schroeder wrote:

      ZephyrosOmega wrote: No need for the sarcasm, Matt.

      It's absolutely true. Sonic in this wiki is choked by an echo-chamber of people that just support each other in every upgrade imaginable and nobody does anything because the walls are impenetrable to outsiders.

      It's true for most verses actually.

      And if you complain? Boo Hoo you're just a hater / opponent get of my lawn and let me wank with my friends who like the series!

      I mean, I’m a member and I was very insulted but receiving insults doesn’t make me want to ban or block the other person. Banning people or blocking them should be decided by actions and intent.

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    • @Elixir

      I meant to say insulting staff members. Insulting normal members is not ban worthy

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: @Elixir

      I meant to say insulting staff members. Insulting normal members is not ban worthy

      Insulting anyone, staff or not shouldn’t really be tolerated

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    • I'm really not surprised if this breaks the rules here.

      (I hope it doesn't though)

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    • K

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    • Insulting anyone is ban worthy. Don’t pretend all those trolls weren’t banned for attacking pretty much anyone they could put their hands on.

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: @Elixir

      I meant to say insulting staff members. Insulting normal members is not ban worthy

      ... huh?

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    • @Sadistic Sleuth

      And insulting staff is more so?

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    • BigSmoke4269 wrote:
      I'm really not surprised if this breaks the rules here.

      (I hope it doesn't though)

      Considering how copywrite trigger happy Derek Savage is, I'd say it would be safer to not have the profile on the wiki to avoid drama with him

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    • And insulting staff is more so?

      Not even close.

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    • My bad, man I suck at elaborating things.

      What I meant is that Insulting Staff members and getting banned is easier than insulting other members. But both are bannable nontheless. Corgi did both

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    • pretty sure we don't instaban people for insulting people though

      And yeah given Derek Savage and his history of impersonating a law firm it's prob best to not

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    • FanofRPGs wrote:

      BigSmoke4269 wrote:
      I'm really not surprised if this breaks the rules here.

      (I hope it doesn't though)

      Considering how copywrite trigger happy Derek Savage is, I'd say it would be safer to not have the profile on the wiki to avoid drama with him

      He has stated that he's okay with "fans" using his content as long as it's not monetized.

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    • Take back everything I said. I'm looking like an idiot.

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    • Can we stay on the topic of Void/Corgi? That profile’s existence being questionable belongs on a general discussion thread.

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    • It is not allowed to severely insult normal members either. However, depending on how useful and hardworking a member is for the site overall, we sometimes have to be more lenient. It isn't entirely fair, but I am afraid that it is necessary for the wiki to function properly. We almost always tell them that they have to make a serious effort to shape up though.

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    • Okay, I'll start a new thread

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    • Sera EX wrote: Can we stay on the topic of Void/Corgi? That profile’s existence being questionable belongs on a general discussion thread.

      Yes. Go here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3673649

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    • I still support banning Corgi

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    • Sera EX wrote: Can we stay on the topic of Void/Corgi? That profile’s existence being questionable belongs on a general discussion thread.

      Sure... but now i’m wondering if this issue has a secondary objective... cause I don’t really know what Sleuth meant by insulting Staff is ban worthy and insulting normal members is not (example: Matt to Sonic supporters)

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    • Matt is usually just harsh iirc.

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote:
      Take back everything I said. I'm looking like an idiot.
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    • Matthew has been extremely useful to the site overall for a very long time, and we cannot go around banning staff members as soon as they have a bad day, or feel stressed out from all of the constant demands of the work here. It would quickly destroy the cohesion of the site. We recently did demote Matthew for repeated bad behaviour though.

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    • GojiBoyForever wrote: Matt is usually just harsh iirc.

      He was kinda using the same language as Corgi has been using on the site lately. I don’t know how Matt talks off Wiki like we know how Corgi talks.

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    •   Loading editor
    • Did matt use the R-Slur? Did he insult Ant off-site?

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    • There is no “secondary objective”. It’s completely false that insulting regular users is not bannable or is harder to get you banned. Go ask all those trolls that were harassing ProfessorKukui (a normal user) how “hard” it was for them to get banned.

      Two staff were once demoted for bullying a regular user. So no, it’s not very difficult for staff to get punished. It just needs to be severe enough due to the trust we built between each other.

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    • Matthew is just being too rude at times when pointing out issues that he is recurrently technically correct about. As far as I have understood, Corgi has been legitimately abusive off-site.

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    • @Sera Ex Ok. I got worried for a moment and my mind went places. I’m just reading the texts from each side and this issue seems personal. I’m hoping that the decision doesn’t come from biases from either side.

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    • Anyway, let's please stop focusing on other unrelated issues and evaluate the one concerning VioletVoid on its own please.

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    • On-site, Corgi just has bad arguments like “you need to be a fan of a series to be knowledgeable”/“being a fan means your argument has more weight than someone who isn’t”, on top of having controversial political opinions.

      Neither of those are ban-worthy. The off-site stuff is another story.

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    • I still believe in what I said about off site affairs.

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    • Well, he used to behave much worse on-site than he does nowadays, but Sera is correct about his current behaviour, yes, and his political views should be a non-issue.

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    • Sera EX
      Sera EX removed this reply because:
      21:52, November 9, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Is the problem with how Corgi thinks about someone and the language he uses when expressing those feelings off the wiki?

      Cause I didn’t see any criminal activity from DDM’s initially post on the matter.

      Also DDM’s scans of Discord don’t seem to be providing context to what Corgi is responding to or his conversation after.

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    • Guess I should further elaborare that this is how Void responded to Dragonmasterxyz telling him to knock it off on a thread.

      A highly unnecessary and immature thing to do.

      This isn't the only time he's overreacted to something so minute and responded to with aggression, trolling, or hate. When I merely suggested he talk to the people he has problems with, he got very defensive and even got personal.

      Now you see why I don't want anything to do with him.

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    • I don't know the context behind the last thing so I won't touch on it.

      I agree that the insult he gave Dragon was unnecessary it happened offsite and didn't directly affect anything on the site.

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    • What further context could you possibly need? I showed my message he responded to.

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    • @Sera EX Why would you tell someone who is upset with you, how to act?

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    • Oblivion Lightning
      Oblivion Lightning removed this reply because:
      22:29, November 9, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • I support Sera, and think that it is very relevant if a member here behaves very badly to other members off-site.

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    • Gis behavior here hasn't really reflected that though after his warning.

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    • @Goji

      Here’s the entire conversation up until that point:

      https://gyazo.com/7af21c801475b4f3f16fc2371468d613

      https://gyazo.com/b775574107ad5591d8d7f83092787c06

      https://gyazo.com/989dee82b70b5c20c54a80fc5aedb719

      https://gyazo.com/e4bd78b9fef9121fcedb75160aae66ac

      https://gyazo.com/f98fd9aeee17ba0ad196360e3a5f9383

      https://gyazo.com/d9e680f1b7ed7e3a066df683d8a11e98

      @Elixir

      He’s upset because he got caught saying rude things about people. FYI, I had plenty to be upset with him over first, since it was actually personal. I even got dragged into this because of a personal comment he made about me before I even knew who he actually was.

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    • Are we going to ignore how ShadowWarrior1999's username on MYHERO's server is "Matt and DDM suck d*ck" or...

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    • No, but this isn’t about Shadow.

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    • I don't want to get involved but you also insulted alot of staff and members of the wikia on Discord Sleuth, so you shouldn't talk much tbh

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    • Alright, we'll talk about him another time

      Also sorry for saying the D word without censoring it, I will censor it next time

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: Alright, we'll talk about him another time

      Sleuth, you are being suspicious to me right now.

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    • Fine

      We won't talk about him at all

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    • No problem. I only edited your message because I didn’t want Fandom to end up banning you over quoting someone/something. It’s happened before.

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    • How is he being suspicious? He is just saying well talk about Shadow later.

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    • I don't support Violet's ban. While I do think he has done rather questionable and dumb things on the site, banning someone for off-site behavior is absolutely ludicrous unless it's something extreme. You have to have some of the most unrealistic expectations if you don't expect some of the users to get heated off-site. That's the literal point of not doing it on-site from the fact they are trying to not be disruptive if it's just talking about problems. There are things people do off-site all the time that would go against things that happen on Wikia. For example, cursing? I can say from plenty of interactions and friends mods curse off-site and do similar things to where they complain. That's just a human attribute. There needs to be better reasons to ban someone for off-site stuff if they were doing something like attacking the site with sockpuppets, doxxing, etc. Otherwise you might as ban half of this site.

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    • ...Inverted actually kinda changed my mind here.

      I now think Corgi shoudn't be banned outright, but maybe a warning for aggresive behavior

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    • ElixirBlue
      ElixirBlue removed this reply because:
      I’m making too much drama and I hate it
      22:58, November 9, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Tempest, no one said you can’t get heated or vent off-site. As I’ve shown however, Void does in fact vent over minute things and even his friend ShakeResounding admits that he can’t keep his mouth shut sometimes. I’m not saying “ban him!” but this is not your typical “venting”. BlueDash and them also started off just venting. It eventually became the massive problem that we had to deal with last year.

      Venting is not an excuse for personal attacks.

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    • Do I have to reply to TheUser?

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    • Yeah, in those scans it seems that he felt targeted for being banned about his beliefs and "hate speech". He doesn't necessarily seem aggressive and he said he was joking.

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    • Ok, i’m done with this. I don’t think Corgi should be ban because whatever he said didn’t effect the site but I’m done because I feel myself starting drama and I hate starting drama.

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: Are we going to ignore how ShadowWarrior1999's username on MYHERO's server is "Matt and DDM suck d*ck" or...

      That wasn’t in my server.

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    • Oh sorry, I just assumed it was because that's his PFP he has in the server. My bad

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    • Sadistic Sleuth wrote: Do I have to reply to TheUser?

      I was just giving you advice for you, it doesn't affect the site to be worthy a report

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    • K

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    • @Goji

      So you think it’s okay to “joke” about someone’s personal life even when you don’t even know them? This was before I even got involved in this stuff.

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    • You yourself said it was fine if it was a joke though.

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    • Yeah well, I’m not feeling so forgiving anymore.

      Let me guess, this is a joke too, yeah? Well it sure as hell isn’t funny.

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    • Well, jokes are meant for different people with different senses of humor. My main point is that you said it fine if it was a joke and he clearly finds humor in certain things that you do not.

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    • “It’s a joke” ain’t cutting it anymore.

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    • Here's the thing about jokes. When you make one, it's for the purpose of making other people laugh and smile. I should now, I make plenty of jokes all the time.

      What that guy said... that's not a joke. That's an insult masked in laughs. There is hate and ignorance bred into the words that he typed. 

      That was not a joke... and as a collector and lover of humor, I find it insulting for anyone to try and use 'It's a joke' as an exuse for such a hateful statement.

      Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me. 

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    • ElixirBlue
      ElixirBlue removed this reply because:
      I have a problem :(
      23:25, November 9, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Jokes are highly subjective. To one group might it be highly offensive and to another group it might a joke ou say to your friends and family.

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    • @Goji 

      Let me ask you this... how many times has he made 'jokes' like that? 

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    • I don't know.

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    • Imma just say I agree with Agnaa and Wokistan that the dude shouldn’t be banned for what Medeus posted. However giving his history and what he said, I’d kindly and very much appreciate it if he and anyone else involved in the Sonic fan club would stay away from my wife. Leave her alone. Keep her name out your mouth. Probably be best to not have any contact with her ever and that includes on site (Yes, I’m serious. Please make it work somehow).

      This is not a threat, it’s just a request from one man to the next. I’m sure despite the stuff he’s said Corgi is still somewhat of a reasonable guy. I’m sure he wouldn’t want anyone saying that stuff about his girlfriend, sister, or mother. I don’t want anyone messing with my wife and stressing her out. This here is just supposed to be a hobby for her. Something for her to do so she can relax after she’s spent the day taking care of our two kids. Only reason she’s still here is because she’s met some genuinely good people here like Antvasima, Medeus, Andy, Wokistan, Crab, Agnaa, etc. etc.

      Now I’m not the one to fight another man’s battles, especially when he didn’t ask me to, but somewhat do the same for my man Cal Howard. He’s genuinely a good guy just trying to do his moderator duties while chilling with his buddies. He isn’t out here to hurt anybody. Same for Medeus, and even Matt (believe it or not).

      TL;DR

      Leave each other alone. Stay away from each other for awhile if you have to. Cal and DDM don’t always have to respond to Sonic CRTs, let some other mods take a look to let the tension between the Sonic supporters and them die down a bit. Sera gave me her word that she will stop being involved in this mess as we don’t want a repeat of 2017’s drama, so she won’t be messing with Sonic CRTs for a long time.

      Hope I was of help somewhat. I also really hope no one takes this aggressively as I’m just looking out for my wife, who’s had enough drama, depression, and stress over the course of her time spent on this here fandom. Thank you, and be blessed 😔🤝

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    • Do you realise that most sites would ban him for comments like that? He said it because he thought that no one would know that he made it. Well guess what, he was found out.

      When he talks to Sera, and whoever DDM is, that's what's going on through his head. He has no respect for the people that mod/admin this site. 

      He makes terrible 'jokes' on top of that. 

      I say ban him. It's obvious that a warning won't get through his head. 

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    • @VenomElite

      Amen brother!

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    • Guess how many of those sites he's said it on? He said it there because he wouldn't be allowed to say elsewhere. And still its offsite and not affecting anything here as he has stopped the behavior here.

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    • I’m only interested in fairness. Whatever happens here, I hope it holds to the standard, not case-by-case basis. Because Bans are serious and they effect everyone.

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    • BlueDash and them also started off just venting. It eventually became the massive problem that we had to deal with last year.

      Venting is not an excuse for personal attacks.

      I don't think it’s appropriate to bring that up in such a way. 
      These situations aren’t comparable as it stands. While I understand that there may be some concern regarding “Y could end up like X, because X started like Y.”, or something along those lines, they’re still separate. Creating this sort of… “Association”, I guess, may end get in the way of someone objectively judging what is happening here for what it is. ​​​​​​​With all due respect, of course, I'm not implying that is your intention.

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    • Fair enough.

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    • I agree with Venom. That’s the most sensible solution. It’s obvious Corgi, Shadow, and them don’t like Cal, Matt, and Medeus, and they don’t like the Sonic supporters back. And poor Sera got dragged into the crossfire when she clearly didn’t want to. It’s best if all y’all do the right thing and leave each other alone, rather than insult people off-site or make weak RV reports to get people banned. Props to that man Ven from coming at the situation like an adult, seriously.

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    • Yeah you two are right, maybe all this should be water under the bridge and move on with our lives?

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    • Yeah, but we should let Medeus and Corgi reply here first. The former is still at work according to Sera and the latter said he was real busy but was gonna reply later.

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    • NostalgiaTrip wrote:
      Do you realise that most sites would ban him for comments like that? He said it because he thought that no one would know that he made it. Well guess what, he was found out.

      When he talks to Sera, and whoever DDM is, that's what's going on through his head. He has no respect for the people that mod/admin this site. 

      He makes terrible 'jokes' on top of that. 

      I say ban him. It's obvious that a warning won't get through his head. 

      The reason why other sites that is not Discord would ban me is because of how restrictive they are and how little they care about C O N T E X T. Like for example: Twitter will ban you for saying the F-word in positive light if you're in love with the same sex. They did it to SonicFox and he's actually gay. Discord on the other hand is less restrictive as the only rules you need to follow are those in different servers created by individual people and they're (suppose to be) private. Hence why I'm free to do whatever I please on Discord ESPECIALLY if it's on my own server.

      Also my jokes are funny. You just have a different taste.

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    • Regarding Void: I would agree just those actions aren't bannable. But Violet hasn't gotten any better. Multiple warnings and RVT events later and he is still doing the same things with the same group of people, generally with the intent to tilt someone. 

      In a discussion with Agnaa over this issue some time ago, insults/hate speech offsite should be a genuine offense (in my own opinion). The words themselves don't possess power, the ideas behind them do. If you jokingly cuss out another user as a back and forth, sure, whatever, if you're friends I don't care. But to repeatedly and consistently use social media platforms to insult the users on the site and spread hatred and nothing else, then I am of the opinion that you just shouldn't be here.

      Play nice or don't play at all, your views don't come into the equation as long as they aren't harmful. We can't just pretend off-site stuff doesn't have a tangible impact here on main site when we clearly keep coming back to this subject.

      Finally, I'd like to note that constructive criticism not only isn't outright insults, it's helpful. People are free to critically view VS Battles. But just blindly insulting individual users is just wrong. There's no defense for it. 

      This is solely my idea for a policy off-site. Just because a person keeps their shit-slinging to media off the main site doesn't mean that it won't reach back here and continue to cause problems.

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    • I agree with Bambu.

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    • Actually my guy, Discord has general guidelines that every server and their users must adhere to.

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    • ^But how restrictive they are and how adamant they are towards them is a different scenario. Which is what I'm talking about.

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote:
      Regarding Void: I would agree just those actions aren't bannable. But Violet hasn't gotten any better. Multiple warnings and RVT events later and he is still doing the same things with the same group of people, generally with the intent to tilt someone.

      Actually, I have gotten better. By better I mean not as active as I use to and nerfed my attitude down a bit. I'm more active on Discord than I am on here. And the stuff DDM is advocating me for a ban? Yeah all of that stuff plus the stuff Sera has with Ashen happened over a month ago. And is now only being brought up when I haven't been like that ever since.

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    • Being here less isn't indicative of being better. My Post's greater purpose was to push for rules regarding off site hatred.

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    • Alright, I am back from work, and about to make a long post. Yes, it was rushed and I was in a hurry because I was late for work. But I was doing it out of a request from Sera. I know since she's here I didn't share her name, but yes, there is far more evidence and Corgi is not the only one. There are about eleven Sonic fans out there who have been permaban worthy things. And Sera already probably leaked a little too much information to the point of no return. I really wanted to wait till we had all the needed information and do what Kepekley did with the previous Discord group. However, the information I have still has seven of them exposed. And this includes 76 images uploaded on Imgur.

      But yes, I will right a long post. It might be controversial and it may even sound "preachy". But if "Political drama" isn't something rule worthy, then using a combination of religious documents and scientific articles in my post to prove the meaning of my words is justified. But with emphasis that it's the in depth information rather than the source that's important. I will be writing a long post that might be at least 10 paragraphs long explaining the situation and why it's truly serious. I guess you could say, I will post an entire Bible. Quite literally.

      But yes, it isn't just using slurs, but they legit used slurs and deliberately bigoted against people with Autism, among other things. And they've been doing more than just attack the wiki, but rather other websites and other vs debating communities in general. And it even goes beyond using slurs, I will explain exactly what I mean in my next post. As a side note, I'm glad Sera, Venom, and Bambu are helping the situation.

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    • Should also note that there's no statute of limitations here on the wiki. A banworthy offense is a banworthy offense.

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    • Before I acknowledge DDM'S "Bible of Wisdom", I just wanna point out something. If y'all ban me for petty insults (not doxing or plotting to destroy the wiki like what other people did) off site on Discord? Nothing will change and I won't learn a lesson because there's no lesson to learn. I'm literally a harmless fellow. Just because I throw insults off site doesn't mean I'm that equal of a murderer or a criminal. Like this stuff is objectively pointless and shouldn't have started this uproar with me and my "toxicity" for the third time in a row. I'm getting sick of it as much, if not more than, as everyone else here. So let's just move on from this month old stuff and let's continue to do our vs debating.

      Thank you.

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    • It isn't about petty insults. It's about the inability to stop being insulting towards everybody. If you claim you won't change then from a purely utilitarian point of view it is more beneficial to ban you. Clearly your actions are disruptive and ultimately counter intuitive towards our goal of maintaining a peaceful community.

      Your argument adds up to suggesting we just ignore you because we should. But the fact is this has happened multiple times now, with no change and direct confirmation that you won't change.

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    • If I want to insult people off-site like everyone else, I can do that. Hence we made these Discord servers in the first place: to become ourselves and not to be restricted and watched 24/7 like some prison inmates. I won't change as far as outside of fandom goes. In fandom? Yeah I can change and I have. The actions of myself shouldn't be that distracting as I'm not trying to start fights with anyone on these threads here. It's like working at a job here. While outside of it is my own business that nobody should take any part of. It's my first amendment right.

      Multiple times, yet the only evidence y'all have dates a month or more old.

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    • You can, that's called freedom of speech. With that freedom comes the freedom to accept the consequences. The consequences of being hateful towards other members with no remorse should be a ban.

      Once again, we have no statute of limitations here on VSBW, and a month wouldn't be top long even if we did have one.

      So, for the record, I obviously support a ban. There's simply no valid defense other than it not being out business- which is flawed at best, considering that it should be our business, if we (those on the wiki) are the ones being shamelessly insulted behind closed doors.

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    • It should be the one who is the victim of the insult's business but at the end of the day, it's a insult made off site and one that you have to actively look for to feel offended by it. Insults off site shouldn't determine an on site ban, no matter what because at the end of the day that's what they are, just insults. (Yeah, I know this argument has been overplayed but it's valid here) 

      Sure let's make on site insults a bannable offense but leave it on site insults. Off site bans should only be given when serious stuff is involved that affects the on site wiki and it's structure. If this person did any of that, then I accept them being banned.

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    • I've already established why that point of view is invalid. Like I said before, if all you can contribute is insults, then you don't need to be here.

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    • Is a large portion of Corgi's recent on site contributions insults? If not, then he shouldn't get banned, even if he's toxic on discord.

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    • Keep in mind that borderline cyberbullying, sexual harassment, death threats, and especially encouraging people to commit suicide (Especially this one). All of that stuff is ban worthy regardless of platform. And yes, this stuff is what me and Sera meant by off site crimes that I'm writing about right now.

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote: I've already established why that point of view is invalid. Like I said before, if all you can contribute is insults, then you don't need to be here.

      Matthew Schroeder wrote:

      ZephyrosOmega wrote: No need for the sarcasm, Matt.

      It's absolutely true. Sonic in this wiki is choked by an echo-chamber of people that just support each other in every upgrade imaginable and nobody does anything because the walls are impenetrable to outsiders.

      It's true for most verses actually.

      And if you complain? Boo Hoo you're just a hater / opponent get of my lawn and let me wank with my friends who like the series!

      I keep bringing this up for fairness. This whole thing started when Sonic fans wanted to bring Sonic to 2-B. Then Matt came in and only contributed insults and left a broken 2-B thread.

      He gets a slap on the wrist. And that happened on site.

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    • If the above is true then proper action should be taken. Encouraging suicide is definitely ban worthy and that's downplaying the situation entirely.

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote:
      I've already established why that point of view is invalid. Like I said before, if all you can contribute is insults, then you don't need to be here.

      Then wouldn't I have been banned as soon as I came here? I mean have y'all just immediately forgot how useful I am here?

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    • Rin The Dragon Empress wrote: If the above is true then proper action should be taken. Encouraging suicide is definitely ban worthy and that's downplaying the situation entirely.

      If that’s the case, yes

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    • He doesn't just contribute insults here though.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote: Is a large portion of Corgi's recent on site contributions insults? If not, then he shouldn't get banned, even if he's toxic on discord.

      A large portion of what he says impacts the site by reaching here. If someone says "oof bambu that daft bastard fuck him" and it doesn't make it here, fine. If it makes it here and I don't care then I wouldn't push for a warning.

      But Corgis hatred does make it to the site, so it should be punishable.

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    • @Elixir I agree, staff shpuld be held to the same standards. But ultimately that's in the hands of HR. Not me.

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    • @Mr. Bambu

      No, that seems like a terrible way to think about this situation. It sounds like any type of insult some user makes off site about a user on site can get someone banned which is bad. 

      Unless that off site hatred leads to a use making an on site insult directed at a another user, then the one who made the insult should get banned, otherwise It shouldn't be mentioned as an bannable offense on site.

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    • It seems like it to you, maybe. I'd compare it to managing a kindergarten class- an increasingly accurate metaphor, really.

      If the a student is bullied outside of school, the teacher can't do much. It isn't within their power. If a picture of the students bullying the other kid are brought in, though, it is now in the teacher's jurisdiction.

      That's the case here. If it ends up on our shores then it becomes our job to clean it up. If you fine folks just refuse to grow up and have some basic fundamental respect for your fellow human being, then you shouldn't have access to a site that gives you access to said fellow human beings. Beginning and end of the situation.

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    • @Corgi Insulting other users because of a superiority complex isn't useful. Your situation is complicated, and you have received official warnings regarding this. It isn't as if this is some spur of the moment realization, this has been an ongoing issue for months that should rightfully culminate in a ban.

      I personally advocate a permanent ban. Not because the offense is so dire, but because we have verbal confirmation that he refuses to change. If it were any other scenario one or two months would work fine.

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    • This would probably go better if there were more options for punishment than just defaulting to bans.

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    • Actually, I would more relate it to committing a crime in one state and getting caught for said crime in another. Yes you were caught there but you have to answer to the original State's laws and not the others.

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    • @Mr. Bambu

      The kindergarden metaphor doesn't fit because the victim here isn't aware of the bullying and has to actively chose to go on another site to feel it's effects. If a person's insults is causing "hatred" against a user then banning that person wouldn't prevent them from making those off site insults nor prevent that hatred for spreading and would actually amplify it which basically doesn't help anyone and makes the site look tyrannical. The best thing to do is leave on site offenses as on site offenses when it comes to insults.   

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    • ElixirBlue wrote: This would probably go better if there were more options for punishment than just defaulting to bans.

      I would also agree to this, but there aren't outside of warnings, whivh hasn't worked.

      @Dienomite True, but it would incentivise not being toxic towards your fellow man. Display that there are very real consequences for consistent disregard for anyone but yourself. The best thing I can do is argue that Corgi should be banned, actually, I don't know where you got that notion from.

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    • GojiBoyForever wrote: Actually, I would more relate it to committing a crime in one state and getting caught for said crime in another. Yes you were caught there but you have to answer to the original State's laws and not the others.

      This also works, sure.

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    • C2CFC269-0096-4CB1-91C9-F248CBCAB5E6

      🤔

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    • Yep. I talk about my ban all the time. So I know what I'm talking about here. I called Hop an asshole and received an admittedly heavy handed ban, but when I returned I did better.

      So what you've done here is prove the site already does this sort of thing, and has since I was banned (in 2016). Thank you.

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    • that has nothing to do with anything

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    • for the record, since I've rejoined I consider Hop one of my better friends here on the site, even though he's a cretin shitposter

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote:

      @Dienomite True, but it would incentivise not being toxic towards your fellow man. Display that there are very real consequences for consistent disregard for anyone but yourself. The best thing I can do is argue that Corgi should be banned, actually, I don't know where you got that notion from.

      You can't try to control toxicty on site by banning using off site offenses, it never works and only leads to more hate that won't be towards just the users but the site as a whole.

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    • Just to be sure, shitposter isn’t an insult, right? I don’t view it or use it as an insult.

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    • @Elixir Nah but we insult each other frequently, it's part of a code.

      @Dienomite Bring me tangible proof that says I can't. Bring me actual reasons to not ban a user who only contributes insults and ego to the site. Not your ideas on how things ought to be. Because, as we can see from this thread, his actions trickle down to the site eventually. And we have proof that the site has banned for this exact reason. For a year.

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    • The information Sera gave out has some accusations that are unfounded especially towards my freinds and before you target others on it hear both sides.

      Thank you.

      Sorry for the derail.

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    • Hold on I will back. Got a fight to watch.

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    • @Mr. Bambu

      I'm not literally saying you can or can't do something but it would give the site a terrible reputation and overall be morally questionable despite the good intent behind the action. Look at recent Youtube, Patreon, Twitter and I believe GoFundMe controversies everyone of these sites began banning people for off site and past behaviors/opinions and they all were huge controversies that damaged the views considerable of each of these sites. Now I'm not saying this would be that big but this reaction would undoubtedly cause more problems to the site than it would fix.

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    • Something like this should definitely be handled somewhere else, we have an HR group for this exact reason. To prevent unnecessary arguments on the wiki, from what I'm gathering if there is a lot of trouble going on a different platform then it should be handled and investigated behind the scenes rather than handling it here. It's pretty disorganized, wastes time and if I'm honest it's rather unprofessional.

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    • The site should have a reputation of casting out toxic people with nothing to contribute. Other forms of media do this. What we know is that all Corgi has contributed in the broad scheme of things is another voice among tons to Sonic threads, and verbal abuse towards anyone he disagrees with.

      Any platform has the right to ban people for such things. The fact it was committed elsewhere and then came here doesn't change what it is and what it means.

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    • I'm starting to think that this has nothing to do with the guy specifically, but we're just talking in general now. I r that is the case, let's create a different thread for that. Ok?

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote:
      The site should have a reputation of casting out toxic people with nothing to contribute. Other forms of media do this. What we know is that all Corgi has contributed in the broad scheme of things is another voice among tons to Sonic threads, and verbal abuse towards anyone he disagrees with.

      Any platform has the right to ban people for such things. The fact it was committed elsewhere and then came here doesn't change what it is and what it means.

      Has Corgi did any of this on site recently? What do you mean by "was committed elsewhere and then came here"?

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    • We have an HR group to consider delicate rule situations such as those concerning staff. Their role is not to go undercover and investigate. If I'm honest, I've handled this in an extremely formal manner and have been reasonable throughout this despite my desires to do otherwise. Thank you for your consideration, but this is an open forum for discussing rule breaks.

      If the situation becomes truly awful then it should be discussed privately. But thus far it isn't, it's about discussing site policy in a level headed way and how it regards to the current situation with Corgi.

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    • We should preferably stop spamming the RVR thread until I post the actual more in depth report.

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    • Discord, Dieno, I mean Discord. Also, once again, time passing has zero to do with this discussion, it's irrelevant and it isn't a defense when Corgi himself states he will not change and thus we should just allow him to perform heinous acts.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: We should preferably stop spamming the RVR thread until I post the actual more in depth report.

      If that is your wish. This subject is not finished, but very well. I will speak to Ant and others regarding this later.

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    • @Mr. Bambu

      That's my point, it's on discord and it's only on discord. No one seemed to have actually insulted anyone on the VBW on site or came from that discord to insult someone on site and no one here seems to have regurgitated the insults. You would have to go to discord to find this insult.

      @DarkDragonMedeus

      I will withdraw for now.

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    • Going to try to remain calm throughout this post, but I will be discussing a bunch of elaborate text.

      First of all, it wasn't just Corgi's insults towards Cal, but he legit said them in context and used them as if he was "Mentally incompetent". And basically discriminated against him. And Dragon Master telling him, "Can we not?" made him explode on discord, and he also got upset just for me kudosing DragonMaster's comment. And actually, sending out obviously false reports is generally considered rule violation. We recurrently ban people for creating fake scans in an attempt to get other users banned. And yes, we don't consider misunderstandings a rule violation, but we do consider people flat out lying about what people actually said is bad. Corgi also notes he's trying to recruit the entire Sonic fanbase to plot something.

      Now anyway, there is another scan above; where ShadowWarrior1999 literally has "DDM and Matthew Suck D***" as his username, and there is a lot more where that came from in the stash. But yes, that is borderline sexual harassment because of other comparisons. Side note, Godhand1999 is Moon Man, and he also refered to be as "Dark Dragon C**ksucker"; another example of sexual harassment. Shadow also blantantly mocked the Everlasting. And so did God Hand. It's considered sexual harassment IRL to have someone else's nudity as your avatar on facebook without said person's consent, so using someone else's and adding "Sucks D***" is the same context. Just likes having "Blank should die" as your username is considered a death threat. And this disturbing but truthful video is proof of that claim.

      Now about slur words, I agree with Bambu that saying the N word back and forth as just a friendly African American gangster slang is fine as long as it's kept offsite. But if it's legit used as racial offence, it is ban worthy. Same with the B word, saying it out loud offsite isn't ban worthy, but using it as a sexist slur is. And calling people the R word behind their backs is not okay, and neither is bigoting against people with Autism. Side note, I do not even have that, but I'm still deeply offended because I respect people with Autism. I do have minor levels of social anxiety however. I know Sera said everyone needs to grow thicker skin. But at the same time, we also absolutely have to be sensitive for other people and groups because discrimination has 0 tolerance. It's like Fandom's #1 rule that any comment that is racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, anti-religions, or mocks people based on age or physical disabilities or mental illnesses can result in a block without warning. And while they do have a tendancy to exaggerate context, this rule has good reason to be here. TheUser also called HST Master and Zamasu Chan some homophobic slurs in a scan above.

      I'm also going to be super blunt with this, but cyberbullying is a very cut and paste definition of murder. This is wear some religious parts come to play, but there is this list; specifically this one and this one. So, Word of God literally says insults are murder. Now to prove this isn't just religious but rather all of these articles further elaborate upon this idea. And there is also this list. I have written a research paper and spoke a persuasive speech for college, so I know all about cyberbullying. And yes, sexual harassment, discrimination, doxing, insulting people greatly, telling a big lie on social media to make people look far worse then they are, and especialyl suicide encouragement are all forms of cyber-bullying. And Cyberbullying is also the leading thing that causes suicide globally. And in these, three scans we have examples of the Sonic Discord group cyberbullying ZaStando and EarthyBoy. While they may be banned users who often going on about 1-A Base Sonic, trash talking him that strictly and calling them a "Nappy Head" is going too far. If you're wondering why, we're concerned about banned people, keep in mind that they still look at our wiki regularly and shouldn't be attacked this way. They also called, ImagineBreaker a homophobic slur. They do change their names a lot as RightWingShadter is once again ShadowWarrior and RightWingGuile is Corgi. Playerback Tokyo Smash is Radical Resident Khan as seen here.

      And of course, I really don't need to say this, but encouraging people to kill themselves is the absolute worst. And yes they did that too, which Shadow Warrior also seconded it but at least shown some humanity. And yes, this is also the very reason cyber-bullying and discrimination equates to murder, is because doing so equates to this, which equates to murder. And I know this not just from online research, but from personal experience. I have had plenty of friends who struggled with this, and also met a few people actually became victims of this. I probably have one of the most level headed understandings of cyberbullying and suicide here. I know for a fact, that all this stuff is ban worthy, and so does everyone with common sense.

      I myself have struggled with this, and in fact. I have been feeling depression and anxiety ever since I had to move to the other side of the country. I still haven't fully adapted to everything; I have missed all my childhood friends, as well as the church I grew up at, and many other things. Plus, but new job has been at least twice as stressful as my old job and the managers are a lot harder on me and make my overwork feel extra exhausting. And I've been struggling with, that s word for months now even before this fiasco. But that fact that I'm forced to put up with the persistent harassment, dog piling, and the offsite bigotry/sexual harassment is making it even more stressful. I'm able to work really hard on the wiki despite this, but even I have limits. And legit, these people left and right are encouraging people to do horrendous stuff. It really needs to stop.

      I've been on numerous mission trips, I helped served free food and clothes to homeless people, I was a performer in this skit (I'm not in the video from what people thought I meant, but this is a skit commonly played in churches global wide which I have part of numerous times), and even to this day. I help fund for campaigns to help other people who deal with anxiety, depression, and suicide. So I really don't like the constant lies about me that the Sonic fan club think I'm some butt hurt debater who downplays their favorite verse. Especially here and now and on this Discord group. And I don't care if people are shitposting memes that roast me and stuff like that for fun. But the overboard insults are a hard no. And I'm usually more offended by other people getting insulted then I am of myself. It's the type of person I am. I've always been sympathetic to others. It's for that reason I sympathize with people who struggle with that, because absolutely no one deserves to be a victim of that.

      Now back to the main topic, here is proof of some of the aforementioned users. The Based is TheUser789. Hiryu-Z is also part of their group as Stealth. Who also called me the R word. And also Oblivion Lightning is also part of the group. Now, I might as well link the whole stash here for more information.

      So in conclusion, Corgi, GodHand, Shadow, Oblivion, Theuser, Hiryu, and Radical have all done something ban worthy. And it's not just them, but there's more whom we haven't discovered their identities. They also persistently trash talk not only various users, but also the whole wiki. And even go into bigotted, sexual harassment, cyberbullying, and suicide encouragement category. I don't quite have every single bad action, and the one who shown me those has more. But this is still more than enough information to ban all seven of them of the current culprits. And there are apparently plenty more examples of them encouraging people to commit suicide among other things.

      I will also need to sleep soon, writing this took a lot out of me, and I really didn't want to post this all so soon. But I was about to reach my limit.

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    • Yeah see I'm still in favor of a ban for all of that.

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    • This seems more like a discord problem rather than a VBW one. Although I think it's ridiculous to visit the discord if it makes one upset since the discord will still exist regardless and it would just make the insults increase in quantity and naturally lead into unavoidable on site trolling, if you truly dislike what's going on in the discord I'd recommend getting into contact with bigger heads at Discord and try to ban them there for violating the rule presented there. I'm still not seeing anything banned worthy for this site but I despise their discord behavior over this site but whatever, that's my last two cents on this subject.

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    • I know Oblivion Lighting irl and the things he said was mostly out of anger and rage and shouldn’t be mistaken for bigotry,racism,sexism on his behalf.Oblivion deals with anger and over expressive emotions and deals with some medical issues I wish not to say about him now but I do want to say that most of the things he said which is very few in the grand scheme could be due to this emotional problem he has.A warning for him seems to be fine to get assistance in controlling this outlash.

      Banning someone over a problem they have a very hard time controlling seems a bit extreme and more overly just receive a warning and input on how to handle their anger better.

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    • It is a VSBW thing that happened over Discord. It is about VSBW members concerning events on VSBW.

      If the insults increase it will be from people effectively disconnected from the site. We can't just turn the other cheek for fear of more punishment from them, that isn't how this works.

      Again, I will speak to others concerning a policy about this sort of scenario, but I absolutely understand DDM's position, having been on the other side of it at one point. I advocate a ban.

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    • I'll be honest, equating cyber-bullying to murder via religion seems incredibly disrespectful and ignorant to victims and should not even be considered as a reason for punishment. Please have some common sense staff members and hit what breaks the rules without bending 6 ways to justify it.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote:

      Now about slur words, I agree with Bambu that saying the N word back and forth as just a friendly African American gangster slang is fine as long as it's kept offsite. But if it's legit used as racial offence, it is ban worthy. Same with the B word, saying it out loud offsite isn't ban worthy, but using it as a sexist slur is. And calling people the R word behind their backs is not okay, and neither is bigoting against people with Autism.

      Perhaps this should be discussed and decided upon before enforcing, because there are even current staff that have done these actions. So, let's think and make things official or decide against them before acting upon them.

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    • Mr. Bambu wrote:
      It is a VSBW thing that happened over Discord. It is about VSBW members concerning events on VSBW.

      If the insults increase it will be from people effectively disconnected from the site. We can't just turn the other cheek for fear of more punishment from them, that isn't how this works.

      This all is happening on an apparently private discord server, that one would have to go by ones own choice, all the while no one in said server seems to be coming out of the discord server to directly message or harass any other victims. Your going to get insulted either way just one would be on a discord and the other would be out in the open and directly in you face at an increased rate, banning them on this site won't fix the issue when your reporting off site behavior and it's ridiculous to think so.  

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    • DDM:I'm also going to be super blunt with this, but cyberbullying is a very cut and paste definition of murder.

      My lad u be wildin with this boi

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    • Yes, obviously that isn't correct, but that isn't the point.

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    • Break VBW rules on VBW get banned on VBW. See someone break VBW rules on VBW, report them to the RVR thread.

      Break Discord rules on Discord get banned on Discord. See someone break Discord on Discord, report them on Discord.

      That's my mindset here, I personally prefer websites who take this stance and my opinion will not change. (With the exception of some bizarre example or situation that I can't think of right now)

      Sorry to sort of clog the thread, hopefully this a reasonable solution can be agreed upon and that's all I got to say.

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    • Uh oh, this shifted a lot.

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    • Okay, DDM's comment is lacking in context, lots of misrepresentation, and half of those scans aren't really relevant. We can respond accordingly to each and every single one of those claims, but because it's so late and some of us (myself included) are going to bed now. We'll have to respond to all of this tomorrow.

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    • "Break Discord rules on Discord get banned on Discord. See someone break Discord on Discord, report them on Discord."

      If we know the user has proven to be troublesome, problematic and detrimental to the site, still they're not trying to change anytime soon and it's not worth keeping them around, then we won't keep them around. Simple as that. The evidence can come from any other site on the internet for all I care. It's the intent and its effect that matters.

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    • I like DDM. He is a very nice and helpful staff member, and I agree with him about that cyberbullying very much leads to a massive amount of suicides and mental health problems worldwide, but not that it is automatically equivalent to murder.

      Regardless, it is extremely important that both the staff and other members of this wiki have a good work environment, and do not get systematically harrassed, or we soon won't have either a staff or a functioning wiki, so I am fine with if Mr. Bambu properly evaluates all of the scans of the Sonic group's offenses that are sent to him, via Medeus or others, and bans the people that need to be banned in order to maintain some degree of peace and harmony in this community. However, it may be best if he talks with the HR group about it in private first.

      We also need to stop spamming this thread about it.

      Also, for the record, I am extremely against the Silicon Valley giants systematically banning or censoring people for their political views and/or cutting off their livelihoods/financial support, but this is about personal harrassment. That is a very different issue.

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    • I plan on speaking to HR about several issues brought up here and elsewhere tomorrow. After that I will make a decision.

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    • Okay. Thank you.

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    • First of all, it wasn't just Corgi's insults towards Cal, but he legit said them in context and used them as if he was "Mentally incompetent".

      I take huge issue with this characterization. Corgi made these four comments here. I cannot see any way that this context implied that Cal's "mentally incompetent", what am I missing?

      And actually, sending out obviously false reports is generally considered rule violation. We recurrently ban people for creating fake scans in an attempt to get other users banned. And yes, we don't consider misunderstandings a rule violation, but we do consider people flat out lying about what people actually said bad.

      As I and many others have said, it seems much more like a misunderstanding than a flat out lie. I myself and many around me have had misunderstandings like that tons of times.

      Saying that people suck dick as sexual harassment

      I don't think this is important enough off-site sexual harassment to be reportable, but I do realize I have a much more extreme view on what's bannable than most others.

      Just likes having "Blank should die" as your username is considered a death threat. And this disturbing but truthful video is proof of that claim.

      I don't agree, same caveat as above.

      Now about slur words, I agree with Bambu that saying the N word back and forth as just a friendly African American gangster slang is fine as long as it's kept offsite. But if it's legit used as racial offence, it is ban worthy. Same with the B word, saying it out loud offsite isn't ban worthy, but using it as a sexist slur is.

      I can't quite tell to what extent you're planning to enforce this, but it almost sounds like it would result in me getting banned, if enforced. Feel free to DM/PM me about this if you wanna discuss this specific point off-site.

      and neither is bigoting against people with Autism.

      Someone saying off-site that you "have autism in the brain" sounds way too minor to me. Again, same caveats.

      A paragraph about how discrimination and cyberbullying is bad

      Unnecessary imo.

      First cyberbullying scan

      How much do we have to care about site-users cyberbullying a banned user off-site? imo just about 0, but I do agree the shit they said is pretty toxic.

      Second cyberbullying scan, trash talking him that strictly and calling them a "Nappy Head" is going too far.

      I could not care less about some dudes calling a banned user a "nappy head" off-site. "Nappy Head" is hilariously childish, in what world is that going too far?

      Third cyberbullying scan

      They said: "I will beat him in a debate" "He thinks this thing which is dumb" "He thinks this thing which is dumb" "He conceded to me" "He's a bad debater" "He's delusional". Even on-site and to users that aren't banned I can't see these sorts of statements being reportable.

      And of course, I really don't need to say this, but encouraging people to kill themselves is the absolute worst. And yes they did that too, which Shadow Warrior also seconded it

      On a side note, you really need to make these albums easier to sift through, this one you linked there has over a dozen images, most are captioned as not even being banned or are just complaining about fake scans.

      But onto the content, like I said a few quotes up, I think this is stepping too far into territory that we shouldn't police. People going off-wiki to do shitty things to people who aren't on the wiki.

      Two and a half posts about how cyberbullying is bad

      Not necessary imo.

      Hiryu-Z, who also called me the R word.

      That is a pretty bad mischaracterization. He said:

      He said Egg Wizard > Solaris. The {r-slur}-ation is already done.

      He called one opinion you had the r slur. I hold no care about this.

      The whole stash.

      From my count that's around 80 screenshots. If I wasn't about to have all my free time sucked away by a new job tomorrow I'd be inclined to look into it. Please pick out the actually important highlights. But assuming that you already did with the rest of your post, in total we have:

      • ShadowWarrior1999 and Godhand1999's nicknames being "so and so sucks d*ck"
      • ShadowWarrior1999 saying you have "autism in the brain"
      • Hiryu-Z saying one of your opinions was {r-slur}
      • Some legitimately shitty behaviour, towards people who aren't site members, committed off-site.

      Overall, nothing presented so far makes me support a ban. I'm also astonished at the lack of evidence against Corgi, considering I thought he was the main focal point of this report.

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    • Well, DDM had this issue thrown upon him before he had a chance to properly organise all of the evidence.

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    • We should probably give DDM a chance to respond again on this issue. I doubt he would be eager to do so after the massive post he wrote before, but he should surely get a word in on the current refutations to his point.

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    • Personally, I’d prefer we just take Ven and Reclusive’s advice rather than continuously drag this out.

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    • VenomElite's, Reclusive's, and Sera's solution that the Sonic fans in question simply make a serious effort to shape up and permanently leave our staff and other members alone, would obviously be best, yes.

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    • Since my name was mentioned by DDM I try my best to keep the things I say off site, most of the things I say on Discord, especialy those scans were just messing around, I don't actualy mean those stuff, and even then from what I looked the only thing it would be ban worthy would be the slurs, but I keep them off site as much as I can since they are allowed there but not here

      Also I don't harass Fuzzie, I just thought those arguments were bad and I was mocking them since It was allowed in the server, but when talking to him I respect him and everything, the same to Zastando, I am even friends with him and everything

      All in all I don't think I should be banned from insults off site when they were allowed there and I try my hardest to not let that influence the wikia

      Also what was done there wouln't even affected the wikia if it wasn't leaked

      I shouldn't be insta banned when I try to keep my behavior the best in site and not let things off site affect the wikia me, plus most of those pics were monyhs old and I barely even do those things anymore

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    • I suppose that is a valid point if true.

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    • I also apologize if anyone got offended for anything I said, after some self reflection I realized that I shouldn't insult anyone even if off site, most of those examples were because either I was angry or frustated and the rules allowed that atitude.

      So I apologize for that

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    • Thank you, Theuser. Tbf you're not even bad even with those scans in mind (and are in general much easier to talk to than some of the others). Now if instead of defending themselves incessantly, Corgi and the rest would just agree to Venom's message (Medeus too, as Cal basically agreed on Discord) then we can finally move on. We've spent enough time on this.

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    • That’d be for the best.

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    • Yes, I would greatly appreciate a response from them. Though I’m primarily focused on the involvement with Sera (for obvious reasons). It’d be best if Medeus could agree too, because he seems to be negatively impacted by this like Sera was. Good to know Cal agrees, as well.

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    • Thanks Sera

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    • I might as well be blunt and honest as well.

      Neon is correct that I struggle with difficult mental issues that make it extremely hard to deal with my anger and I genuinely apologize for any distress ions due to lack of control over this.I would never EVER hate anyone over their views as that’s pure ignorance and I really don’t like that.It’s just VSBW Game Sonic debating isn’t healthy and causes me to get so angry and hostile what it’s something I need control.I always intended that to be private vent to just let out petty anger to feel better.I even get into big debates and arguments with my freinds due to this problem however that’s not an excuse and I will be genuinely seeking help with dealing with my problems with a professional.

      Again,I’m sorry.

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    • It’s alright, Oblivion. You and User apologizing (especially in the latter’s case as he does believe he isn’t entirely guilty, which is true) is nonetheless a testament of your character. If we had more of this from staff and non-staff alike, the site would be a better place overall.

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    • I heavily agree with Agnaa.

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    • I mostly wanted to stay out of this. But I wanted to say I do commend Oblivion and Theuser for being reasonable and showing some remorse over everything.

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    • Apparently, from the time I took a break from this wiki to now, almost nothing changed and we're still acting as if the wiki is a war between two operating factions, the "People who come to the thread to say a bunch of crap, derail the conversation, draw out people's anger and then hide behind the baited people's even-worse response to feign innocence" Coalition, and the "People who fall for the bait and lash out, making things even worse for themselves a Foundation. And then those two come to war on the RVT thread trying to pretend they're not doing anything wrong.

      I miss 2017. I'm too naive for my own good sometimes, thinking people who are over 17 can act in ways not to suggest they're half their real age.

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    • I strongly agree with Bambu, Ven, and Reclusive. I’m sorry but just because Corgi hasn’t done anything specifically ban-worthy doesn’t mean he should get off entirely scott-free. His past and current actions have negatively impacted the other’s behavior. DDM isn’t not a bad person. He’s genuinely very nice, easy to talk to, and a joy to be around. While he admittedly may take some things a bit to heart unnecessarily and misrepresent what some people have said as Agnaa recently pointed out, this is only because of Corgi/Void and the Sonic gang’s attitude towards him and what they said off-site. None of you can pretend that someone saying bad things about you wouldn’t affect your behavior somewhat.

      Then we have Cal. Yes, Cal by his own admission has some biases and he thinks Sonic is high-balled. Does that mean he should be hated for disagreeing with you? No. He generally is a good guy and is just an admin trying to keep the place from being invaded by even more bad statistics (because as Antvasima said, our current stats are quite inflated).

      Of course we can’t forget about Sera. Sera is the key factor here, once she got involved, this began to get escalated. She would’ve never got involved if Corgi didn’t get exposed joking about her personal life and later, be caught with his chumps talking about her appearance (despite never seeing her face before) and calling her a thot (despite being married). Now you can blame the person who leaked it all you want, the dude should’ve never said those things.

      By her own words, the tension in the Sonic threads since then has been high. It’s always the same group of people bickering back and forth. It’s clear what got leaked and the tension being high has affected Medeus, affected Cal to the point of him basically giving up on Sonic, and affected Sera to the point of near-depression ...again. Not everyone is Matt people. Just because Matt has this idgaf attitude doesn’t mean the rest of the staff involved do. They have feelings, their own personal problems, and struggles. Medeus is generally stressed out nowadays, I can tell whenever I talk with him on Versus Central, Sera has adult issues going on, and Cal is trying to focus on his education (same can be said for Matt really). Is it really worth making their lives harder over a b,he hedgehog on a power-scaling site?

      This is why Bambu is spot on. What people say off site is exposed can have an effect on how someone sees you. You can’t hide behind “it was a joke” or “it was off-site so I can do what I want”, then turn around and get upset because a moderator decided to investigate if you’re inciting drama off-site. That’s childish. It’s like being upset with the police for investigating a crime you committed after you got ratted out. Don’t blame the rat, blame yourself. Take responsibility for your actions. Learn from the. Lue hedgehog you support. Because Sonic wouldn’t condone this behavior.

      Reclusive is also absolutely correct. Just leave each other alone and this won’t have to continue any further. And I agree with Ven. Let’s keep this non-personal and definitely leave Sera out of it. Don’t bring her up. Don’t even allude to her existence. We’re tired of how this site has been continuously impacting her negatively. What happened in 2017 was partially her fault, but this here? She was dragged in and she never wanted to be.

      In resume

      Involved Sonic Supporters: Leave those staff alone, like Ven and Rec said. They’ve got enough problems to juggle. I don’t care if it’s your server, someone else’s server, a YouTube video, Instagram, or on the freaking Moon. Don’t go bad-mouthing people off site as that creates tension on threads and prevents anything productive from getting done. This has been proven to be disruptive several times in the past and is negatively affecting them, that’s why they’re trying to get you banned (duh).

      Involved Staff: Chill out for a bit. Don’t let your personal problems get someone you don’t like banned, as much of a d-word they may be. It’s not worth worsening your stress, because as Agnaa said, he didn’t exactly do anything ban worthy and you are exaggerating some things. Stay off Sonic threads for a while like Ven suggested. There’s plenty mods that can look over it and see if they’re legit. It’s their job to review CRTs after all.

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    • Sorry Kep, but the only person “coming to threads to say a bunch of crap, derail the conversation, draw out people's anger, etc.” is Matt. Cal and Medeus have never done that, neither have I or Dragon and we’re the other four mods part of this whole thing. Your comment really didn’t help anything either. It was arguably just as unproductive as the comments Matt makes on threads, which you just spoke out against.

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    • Off site things should be handled offsite by off site mods

      On site things can be handled on site by onsite mods

      Why can't it just be like this? If you see someone insulting you somewhere else just ignore it. It's all sticks and stones.

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    • And I didn't claim Cal and Dragonmaster and etc. did it. I respect both of those huge friends who made this wiki worth experiencing and staying in for me.

      This entire thread is an unproductive mess, all because people decided to be a bunch of crazy assholes. Some people here are undeniably unfit to be staff members in my view if this is their reaction.

      Simply put, the wiki has decayed a lot ever since my entrance. I legitimately feel a lot less attached to it than I originally did. I've literally been attacked by Youtubers with hundreds of thousands of subscribers on public livestreams, for minutes straight, and I still talk to those same Youtubers as half-friends.

      There is simply no maturity taking place here, in my view. People need to grow a skin.

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    • The fact that this is still going on and that people are bending over backwards to defend harassment at all costs makes me sick. What exactly does giving everyone perpetual endless chances solve? It makes you seem nicer and kinder to others? Gives you a feeling of moral superiority? Or is it because it seems too mean to ban a troll for trolling or a harasser for harassment?

      You'd think after years VBW would have got more mature with this but no. 

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    • About the Discord points; a LOT of those are undeniably worth of further attention and are horrible. A good portion, however, are just....insults or something. Insults shouldn't be worth anything. I know some people might not take to being insulted that well, but unless we're growing systematic hate/systematic wiki destabilization posts, we shouldn't care. Simple as that. You're not even there to receive the insults.

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    • @Kep

      There’s no maturity? Ven made the most mature comment on the entire thread that no one seems to be listening to. That’s not our fault that instead of making peace, some decided to just defend their actions. User and Oblivion made peace. How is that not mature?

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    • Upon looking at DDM's scans, what the Sonic Oompa Loompas did and said was a literal repeat of last year's incident, albiet a bit more minor

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    • I obviously agree with Pritti and I think everyone adding their two cents about the maturity of people on the site and comments of “grow some skin” / “it’s just sticks and stones” are not helping the situation at all. Especially when you have no idea what other people are going through. Not everyone is savage like Matt.

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    • I know I'm not helping the situation. I'm expressing my feelings and my perception of the wiki's decay - the people in it's decay. My objective in this thread is not helping, because I personally don't think this matter is all that serious.

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    • I am for the most part in agreement with Kepekley.

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    • I don’t think it’s serious from a wiki-wide objective standpoint myself and you have a point about the wikia’s decay. That’s why I’m not supporting a ban here. Keep in mind that if Void would’ve just agreed to my man-to-man request instead of defending his off-site actions and prolonging this thread, we would’ve all be done with this by now. You see where I’m getting at? It strikes me as if he’s just going to be uncompromising all throughout. That will cause nothing but more problems in the future. However, I understand context and I believe he just simply didn’t read it. So I’ll patiently wait.

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    • And, DDM, don't get me wrong. Some of those scans are definitely worth looking into, ban-worthy even. You simply have to recognize that, at a certain point, you got too involved with the situation, hence your frustration.

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    • After looking it over, I'm starting to think not every user I linked was all that bad at least based on the scans I listed. I'm glad TheUser and Oblivion apologized. However, I could only share what was given to me, and didn't have enough time or energy to organize everything as others have said. As well as single out specific scans of the more ban worthy stuff. But as I said, there's apparently a bunch of other stuff, and there are legit scans of people mentioning plots against the wiki. I can agree it's best discussed privately with Bambu and the HR group some more before taking action, but I'm consistently told there's a lot more too this.

      Anyway, I do apologize for everything here, and I'm going to take a break from some of the bigger Sonic revisions until the main issue is resolved aside from making the Staff only thread addressing MaginaryWorld and/or 2-B stuff which I was asked to make. But I legit felt the need to get the information off my chest before it ate me alive.

      I also do agree that it isn't ban worthy to simply have strong political and/or religions/spiritual view points, but being an extremest is a different story. And I agree 100% with Matt that harassment is never something to be ignored. Last time I'm posting here on the issue for now.

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    • Sera EX wrote: It’s alright, Oblivion. You and User apologizing (especially in the latter’s case as he does believe he isn’t entirely guilty, which is true) is nonetheless a testament of your character. If we had more of this from staff and non-staff alike, the site would be a better place overall.

      Thank you Sera.

      And I apologize for my outbursts it’s something I do need to control and will get help with it.

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    • It all just makes me so disappointed that people are so reluctant to take action. VBW has always moved with the velocity of a tectonic plate with people seemingly incapable to differenciate someone being harsh and aggressive against one's arguments in a thread than someone name-caling, throwing slurs, harassing and ridiculing others and personally attacking them often.

      God forbid people grow a little bit of a thick skin and accept that not everyone is enforced by law to act nice to them and agree. 

      In fact, the ultimate "Let's Ban Someone" strategy in VBW has nothing to do with gathering evidence of harmful behavior and posting it. It has to do with acting passive-aggressive on threads until your opponent snaps, at which point you immediately go to RV and feign that you're hurt and distraught. And then the person will get banned for "hurting your feelings" pretty much.

      I also greatly enjoy being used as a perpetual shield by these people ("W-Well, Matt said my argument was stupid so it's fair game!"). Like, Jesus Friggin Christ on a Segway. Can't people tell the obvious difference between actual harrassment and just being a bit harsh?

      I just get disappointed, really... You'd think after so many experiences with horrible drama the VBW staff would be more quick to recognize it and deal with it before it spreads like a cancer

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    • Well, I think that it seems best if the HR group tries to take a look at all of the available evidence. What Medeus showed on its own was likely largely not all that bad, but it is a very different issue if there actually is a coordinated effort to harrass others or destabilise the wiki.

      That some of the people in question have apologised and seem willing to shape up their behaviour also speaks for some leniency.

      Anyway, Matthew is obviously correct about that there is a major difference between just being blunt/rude and genuinely harrassing others.

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    • Why on earth is an RVR still being used to discuss all of this, and not a Staff Discussion thread?

      Why on earth are Staff members openly lamenting that evidence of breaking rules on-site is needed to ban users, and lamenting that impulsive 'well we just KNOW it's cancerous' reasoning cannot be used to nuke persons they disagree with?

      Why on earth are people using so many ignorant appeals to emotion to try and argue their side?

      Good lord this is a mess, make a Staff Only thread, go discuss it, obviously Staff need to re-evaluate the rules before doing anything here since nobody can even agree on what needs to be done; that in and of itself is proof no bans should be issued since no unified rule list can be pointed to that proves a ban OUGHT to be handed out in this situation. 

      Go from there, evaluate in another thread, and move on as necessary. 

      Good lord.

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    • I also disagree about that the wiki is genuinely decaying. I think that the reliability of the content is largely gradually improving over time. However, several of our staff members are increasingly busy with schoolwork and/or other real life concerns, which leaves me more stressed out from trying to take care of many things at once as best as I can manage.

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    • I dunno why but reading Xulrev comment make me kind of mad, maybe because the good lord and why on earth

      Sorry but i really want to say this

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    • Xulrev is probably correct. A staff only thread and/or a private HR group discussion, would be better.

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    • Probably best to let HR handle it.

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    • Yes.

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    • I am getting a little bit lost right now, is anyone getting banned or are the staff simply going to discuss the rules? I already said everything I needed to say at least about myself. Also I will be inactive for 7 hours so hoppefuly no big action against me is nade during it, not that I think it will after apologizing

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    • Antvasima wrote: I also disagree about that the wiki is genuinely decaying. I think that the reliability of the content is largely gradually improving over time. However, several of our staff members are increasingly busy with schoolwork and/or other real life concerns, which leaves me more stressed out from trying to take care of many things at once as best as I can manage.

      The reliability of the ratings is being traded in for a significantly larger amount of drama. Less than one year ago, there were only 26 RVT Threads. When I joined in 2017, exactly two years ago, there were only 18 of them or less, from what I recall.

      In less than one year, there have been as many RVT threads made as the amount of RVT threads made between 2015 and 2018. Let that sink in.

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    • Well, much of that was because we used to be harrassed by fanatic trolls all the time, but they have repeatedly told me that they have lost interest, so I hope for the best in that regard.

      I would much prefer less drama though, yes. My social skills, sense of judgement, and available time are not good enough to deal with it very well.

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    • Theuser789 wrote: I am getting a little bit lost right now, is anyone getting banned or are the staff simply going to discuss the rules? I already said everything I needed to say at least about myself. Also I will be inactive for 7 hours so hoppefuly no big action against me is nade during it, not that I think it will after apologizing

      I think that Medeus will show Mr. Bambu and the HR group all of the available screencaptures that he has, after which they will evaluate it and weigh in the severity of the misdemeanours against the displayed willingness to shape up. Or that's the idea anyway.

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    • I really feel the need to apologize myself, mostly for not being able to turn the other cheek and just ignore some things. After talking with Kep and friends on Discord I realized they were mostly right. Mean words on the internet are just that, sticks and stones.

      At the end of the day, I'm sure none of the Sonic supporters discussed here have any ill intentions. I should've just ignored it. I know better, I'm an adult.

      It's just I've been going through several episodes of depression, and seeing that comment from Void back in the RV 56 and the following drama triggered my PTSD of the moments I nearly took my own life during the 2017 drama-fest. I don't want to go back to being that person. I hate drama, I hate feeling angry all the time. It makes me sick. To protect myself I biasedly just followed whatever Medeus and Cal told me and they're not the type to lie, but I should've been able to judge the situation better. But I was so afraid of drama coming back into my life that I subconsciously was trying to get them all banned, despite saying I don't care if Void was banned or not.

      It's not easy suffering from mental illness in Japan. Mental illness isn't treated very seriously here, so I haven't been able to get much professional help. Regardless, it's unacceptable to try and get someone banned when they have at least on site, have shapened up somewhat. Even though I was doing so subconsciously. I just want to make friends here. I don't want to have "beef" with anyone ever.

      I realized that I still have a lot of growing up to do. My sister was right, numerical age doesn't automatically make you an adult. And your 20s is the perfect time to finish properly maturing into a true adult. So to Corgi, Oblivion, Shadow, User, and the rest, I sincerely apologize for my behavior. And to all the staff here + Agnaa and GojiBoy, I also apologize for being incapable of handling this situation better than I have. I should know better by now.

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    • Antvasima
      Antvasima removed this reply because:
      17:05, November 10, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • The "mole/rat" who took a majority of these screenshots and was feeding them to... Whoever it is here, has since been dealt with in response to breaking one of the rules of the server he took a majority of those screen caps from.

      "Don't bring your beef in this server/Drag Beef from in the server to other servers, this includes screenshotting comments from inside the server to show people outside of the server, or bringing in outside people here to add on to trouble or drama, if you get caught turning on the server, that's grounds for an auto ban."

      You need not concern yourselves with this any longer. This is the last you'll be seeing of anything of this sort.

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    • Look guys. I'm not someone trying to make everyone my enemy here. I came on this site to make new friends and continue my debating skills after G+ got deleted. All I really is the staff treat themselves on the same level of respect they give to regular members. Because at the end of the day, we're still people. We shouldn't be banning people we don't like because of a series they support or giving other people a hard time and getting them stressed out.

      That's my hot take.

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    • @Sera

      I am very sorry that you have been feeling this bad. Feel free to talk with me in private about it if you wish.

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    • @Sera

      Its ok, you tried your best to convey your side of the situation to us. There are two sides to every coin and both of them just need to understand each other here.

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    • If you want someone to talk to, feel free to hit me up on Discord.

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    • Talking is by far one of the simplest, yet best ways to handle feelings like that, the above is correct

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