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  • 600px-Hero SSBU (1)
    Sans-1-

    Speed equalized

    win via by death, incap, or KO

    SBA

    both are in-character 

    battle takes place in the judgement hall









    Sans: 2 (TheAresnal1212) (Super Ascended Sean Pazdera)

    Hero: 2 (Modernrmidon) (Im blue dabe dee dabe die)

    Incon: 1 (Lucas Carvalho Santiago)

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    • Aye, Unsure about that one, Hero has no resistance to Soul Manip, so sans could just raise his arm, if hero gets even little close to sans Hero atomizes sans into the groud, and if sans can't manip his soul it is a win for the Hero.

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    • Following.

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    • Bump

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    • Lucas Carvalho Santiago wrote:
      Aye, Unsure about that one, Hero has no resistance to Soul Manip, so sans could just raise his arm, if hero gets even little close to sans Hero atomizes sans into the groud, and if sans can't manip his soul it is a win for the Hero.

      So maybe inconclusive?

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    • So this is a who hits first battle...kinda. I go for Hero. Any projectile can be reflected with bounce, his speed can be increased with acceleratle , and kaboom is a projectile that pulls the enemy towards the explosive.

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    • Sans because of soul manip

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    • Sans needs to do that by hitting Hero with his bones or gaster blaster, which gets sent back with bounce.

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    • Hero FRA

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    • Hero FRA

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    • Can Hero deflect intangible stuff with bounce ?

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    • TheArsenal1212 wrote:
      Can Hero deflect intangible stuff with bounce ?

      Darn. That's a good question actually.

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    • I would say maybe? He can attack the ghosts from Pac-Man and harm spirits. Iirc, he can also reflect a projectile that is used to remove the spirits from yourself.

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    • The ghosts from Pac-Man aren't intangible though.

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    • If he can't, he attempts to block and rebound and it doesn't work. Sans then soul haxes

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    • Not to mention Smash characters aren't exactly known for their danmaku dodging skills.

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    • Yep. I'm voting for Sans

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    • So am I

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    • Why wouldn't the ghost from Pac-Man be intangible? They're ghost. And the shielding makes you safe from them. Actually, what I said before about bounce I am now certain. Assist trophies can damage ghosts, including the ones with projectiles and Hero's bounce can reflect them.

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    • Except everyone can hit them normally. 

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    • I'll go with inconclusive FRA

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    • Because they have non physical interaction.

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    • They don't, actually. Unless it's something pertaining to Hero.

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    • Why wouldn't they be non-physical? They're literally ghost, which commonly do not have a physical body. This is don't different. And yes, they do have it. So my vote for Hero stays. Bounce will reflect any projectile Sans throws, acceleratle boosts his speed, and kaboom will pull Sans into the explosion.

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    • Name one ghost in Smash Bros who your attacks pass through.

      And Sans just teleports Hero back every time he tries to get close.

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    • There's not a lot in Smash Bros. Either way, it doesn't disprove my point at all.

      Sans doesn't teleport people away from him in battle, at least not during the start. Again, Hero's Kaboom is just going to pull him towards the explosive, not sure how he's going to avoid that and Hero attacking him at the same time.

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    • Actually, I don't believe the Pac-Man ghosts as an Assist Trophy can be hit.

      He'd teleport Hero's Kaboom onto Hero.

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    • They can. I've played the game, you can actually damage the Pac-Man ghost, and so can other assist trophies.

      Which would only get reflected by Hero again. Not sure how Sans deal with Hero's fairly large range explosives. Hero has the speed advantage anyways.

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    • DatOneWeeb wrote:
      Hero has the speed advantage anyways.

      Yeah but speed is equalized.

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    • Acceleratle boosts his speed. I am aware that a speed boost should not be the main reason however. But, I doubt Hero won't be able to hit Sans once. He can't really do anything to attack Hero once he has bounce.

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    • Hero should be able to get in the first hit on sans via his spells before sans can shoot a bone at hero before you say speed equalized it doesn't apply to combat speed so hero could throw out something like sizz or sizzle and kill sans before he could throw out a bone

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    • Smash Fighters can tag ghost pokemon in Smash Run and ghost entities in SSE

      But Hero is Ultimate so he doesnt have either of those... closest is punching lower-dimensional beings

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    • Ghost Pokemon aren't as noncorporeal as actual ghosts. For example, Red's Charmeleon in Origins could hurt Ghost Pokemon but couldn't hurt the Ghost of Cubone's Mother.

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    • Cool, that doesn't change anything.

      @Edward Every base abilities (such as shielding) can be applied to characters from Ultimate since it didn't add much. Even if we don't apply this to Hero, it can still work in some ways. If the previous fighters can attack ghosts, we should be able to include their projectiles. In which Hero's bounce can reflect. So it still applies to him actually.

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    • Ey, It's been a while, anyways Hero no u's with bounce, as Blaze said.

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    • 4 votes for Hero.

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    • Agletonwiki wrote: Hero should be able to get in the first hit on sans via his spells before sans can shoot a bone at hero before you say speed equalized it doesn't apply to combat speed so hero could throw out something like sizz or sizzle and kill sans before he could throw out a bone

      What? Speed Equalized applies with all speed.

      Anyways, there are no proof Smash ghosts are intangible and NPI isn't on there profile anyways. Ghots aren't automatically intangible either, as neither Homestuck ghosts nor Danny Phantom ghosts passively (emphasis on passively, I'm well aware DP ghosts can go intangible at will) go through stuff. Make a CRT for it.

      In order to win, Hero would need to speed boost off the bat. Sense he's a video game character with no "in-character" starting move, this is unlikely.

      Sans bones him.

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    • I'm pretty sure you don't need to objectively prove ghosts aren't intangible. In fact, it's the other way around as if there are things contradicting them from being intangible, then they aren't. This however isn't the case. Hero should also scale to the other fighters who can harm other ghost enemies, such as Floow which is described as a ghost in its description.

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    • First I've heard of that. Also, Occam's Razor. What requires less assumptions? That everyone can interact with intangible people for no apparent reason or that those ghosts simply aren't intangible because they don't show signs of it and everyone can touch them.

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    • How is that occams razor? Please tell me why do I need to prove ghost are intangible when they're commonly displayed as that. It's not an assumption. Everyone being able to interact with them doesn't exactly negate them from being intagible, since everyone in Smash Bros can share the same abilites, such as shielding. The ghosts aren't even the only example as the fighters have fought several ghost enemies. I don't think them having non-physical interaction is something new. Even characters such as Ness from their own game has it from fighting ghost enemies, yet show no proof of being intangible. This includes others as well.

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    • They're commonly displayed as that.... outside of Smash Bros. Unless the ghosts in Smash Bros have feats of actually going through things, then it requires less assumptions to presume they can't, as everyone in the setting can interact with them.

      Feats from their home series don't count. Shulk is Low 2-C in his franchise, doesn't mean his Smash equivalent is.

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    • You have yet to prove the ghost aren't intangible. I honestly don't even know why they wouldn't have NPI since they've been able to consistently harm ghost throughout the series. I've literally given 5 examples of them attacking ghosts.

      You didn't understand my point. The ghosts from EarthBound don't have feats of being "intangible". Yet we allow it as NPI and see no problem with it. Why is this any different?

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    • If that's the case, then Earthbound shouldn't have NPI. But that's a CRT for another day.

      The ghosts aren't intangible because they've never shown having the power and we've actually seen people touch them. How are we supposed to prove someone doesn't have an ability? By that logic, vampires can smell the blood in people's veins without proof of having done so as that's something vampires are commonly depicted as doing.

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    • Gastly itself is actually intangible. It passes through every attack that ain't a projectile.

      Projectiles however can hurt it, and Hero has alot of those.

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    • Can he be deflected by a shield? Because that's kinda the crux if Sans argument is his attacks not getting deflected.

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    • It's not just EarthBound, it's other series as well. However this shouldn't mean they can't have it. Because harming ghosts is allowed to be NIS unless there are contradictions.

      "we've seen people touch them" is NOT A valid point as to why a ghost isn't intangible. Otherwise the entire ability of NPI should just be removed. NPI is just an ability all fighters have.

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    • It is a point against them if they've never walked through any walls or gone through solid objects.

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    • The Wright Way wrote:
      It is a point against them if they've never walked through any walls or gone through solid objects.

      We have seen the Floow being able to fly in between the moving platforms. Edward also made a good point, physical attacks can't harm ghastly yet projectiles can. What does Hero's bounce reflect? Projectiles.

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    • There we go. That's the kind of proof I was waiting for.

      Wait, so reflecting attacks that can hurt intangibles means it can reflect intangibles? What?

      Anyways, Hero FRA. NPI means Sans likely can't hit first.

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    • 5 for Hero.

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    • Even if Hero didn’t have NPI, Sans’ bones’ intangibility is so selective that it doesn’t change anything and wouldn’t get past Bounce. Bones going through Frisk when they hurt him is like, the most paltry intangibility on the site.

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    • Is that a vote for Hero?

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    • Something that'll also massively negatively affect Hero is that he has no idea what Blue Attacks are, and since standing still is practically the last thing he'll do, Hero likely won't figure it out in time. 

      As Sans has shown with Frisk's INV (Post-Hit Invulnerability), he can damage opponents even while they should be in an invulnerable state, meaning Bounce is really Hero's only option to counter Sans. Only Hero doesn't know that, and it would be much harder for him to figure that out than Frisk did against Sans, and unlike Frisk, Hero only has one shot.

      Speaking of which, Hero does not have SAVE and LOAD, and he doesn't even have much skills in dodging danmaku like Frisk had even far before they fought Sans.

      Furthermore, as Abra has shown in Ultimate, Smash characters being teleported puts them at a massive disadvantage, even when they know it's coming.



      Yeah, no intel is kind of broken when Sans is involved.

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    • Hero FRA honestly

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    • 6 for Hero, possibly 7 if we count Cal which would start grace. Anyways.

      @Sean

      His blue attacks will be useless if Hero uses bounce since they will simply be reflected. If anything, this will be bad for Sans because he needs to stand still once they get reflected but at the same time, he can't with Hero trying to attack him.

      Yes, Hero needs bounce. Which is why it was my argument. It doesn't matter if Hero knows Sans uses a ton of projectiles, he will use Bounce even against characters will low amounts of them. This might be considered headcanon so don't take this 100% seriously. If a Sans costume was in Smash Ultimate for gunner, someone who mainly uses projectiles, this will likely give Hero the mindset to use bounce even more.

      It's only trouble when they get teleported because of the blast-zone underneath which won't be included here. Not to mention Sans will only start using it during the second half of the battle, and I doubt he will be able to survive that long.

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    • It is not remotely within Hero's character to spam Bounce, nor can he since it's RNG to even find it in his menu and Hero may run out of MP. And Sans will be able to tell that Bounce can counter his attacks faster than Hero will be able to figure out Blue Attacks, all Sans has to worry about is timing his attacks until Hero runs out of MP, after which Hero will not live to cast another Bounce. And all of this is assuming Hero can even ACT on Sans's turn.

      I highly doubt any Mii Fighter costume is canon.

      That's not what I meant. It's also dangerous because they have no idea where they're going thus surprising them and leaving them open to attack, which is much more of a threat with Sans than with Abra. Also Sans against Frisk =/= SBA.

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    • ....Does Smash Bros even have canon? I don't think you can make tgat argument for game that's literally "Video Game characters beat the shit out of each other: The Game".

      "Sans against Frisk =/= SBA" What else are we supposed to use? It's literally the only fight we see of him on screen.

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    • You do realize you cannot choose what Hero will do, correct? His menu rng is literally just game mechanics to prevent him to be op in game. Hero's MP can replenish over time, and Bounce only uses 14 MP, so I doubt it will be much of an issue. How is Sans going to realize bounce will reflect before Hero even uses it? Bounce is gonna reflect literally anything he throws. He cannot do anything but dodge until Hero's bounce runs out, which will be hard because he can just use it again and increase his speed, along with shooting a projectile that will pull Sans towards it. If you're going to use his game mechanic as an argument, Sans will only do that "special attack" as a last resort. I highly doubt Hero won't be able to hit him once.

      Any evidence for this?

      Sans will only start teleporting them during the second half, in which he still cannot harm Hero. Frisk is the only time we see him fight, that's all we have seen him do as stated by Wright.

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    • The Wright Way wrote: ....Does Smash Bros even have canon? I don't think you can make tgat argument for game that's literally "Video Game characters beat the shit out of each other: The Game".

      Subspace tho

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    • In which Plautena stated that those events did actually happen, as well as spirits from the mode appearing. 

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    • Edwardtruong2006 wrote:

      The Wright Way wrote: ....Does Smash Bros even have canon? I don't think you can make tgat argument for game that's literally "Video Game characters beat the shit out of each other: The Game".

      Subspace tho

      Oh, wow, I genuinely forgot. Thanks.

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    • Bump

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    • Did a recount, Hero had 7 votes, not 6. Meaning grace started and was over 2 days ago. I'll go ahead and add this.

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    • A FANDOM user
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