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  • Sera EX
    Sera EX closed this thread because:
    OP request.
    22:07, October 6, 2019

    This will be a quick CRT that’ll give a slight upgrade to the low 2-C scaling chain. 

    In Jiren’s clash, with the Spirit Bomb, that’s when it’s mentioned he’s stronger than anyone they’ve faced. It’s also stated that Goku could’ve defeated Jiren with the Spirit Bomb if it hit him. Belmod was even worried about the Spirit Bomb, supporting Roshi's statement. Not to mention, IIRC, UIO1 was being fueled off the Spirit Bomb energy, and Spirit Bomb level attacks awaken UIO.

    My proposal is low 2-C spirit bomb. This would scale to ssj Kefla, making her low 2-C instead of 3-A. 

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    • "Not to mention, IIRC, UIO1 was being fueled off the Spirit Bomb energy, and Spirit Bomb level attacks awaken UIO."

      Is this what would make SSJ Kefla Low 2-C?

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    • She kicked Goku as hard as the spirit bomb. 

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    • For him to go into UIO?

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    • It was Jiren pushing the Spirit Bomb away that made him greater than Infinite Zamasu was it not?

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:
      For him to go into UIO?

      UIO2 yeah. 

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    • AwkguyDB wrote:
      It was Jiren pushing the Spirit Bomb away that made him greater than Infinite Zamasu was it not?

      Yes. 

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:
      AwkguyDB wrote:
      It was Jiren pushing the Spirit Bomb away that made him greater than Infinite Zamasu was it not?
      Yes. 

      So anyone above the Spirit Bomb should be Low 2-C

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    • I guess it's fine.

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    • AwkguyDB wrote:
      Zamasu Chan wrote:
      AwkguyDB wrote:
      It was Jiren pushing the Spirit Bomb away that made him greater than Infinite Zamasu was it not?
      Yes. 
      So anyone above the Spirit Bomb should be Low 2-C

      Yes. 

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    • I see no problem with this?

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    • yeah I agree with this too

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    • I agree with this.

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    • Seems alright

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    • I agree btw

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    • I guess this is okay.

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    • Considering Jiren very casually deflected the Spirit Bomb, I don't think it's safe to directly scale it from him. It did how ever cause Goku to become UIO, which would count for something. But I'm unsure if that's enough to qualify as Low 2-C, and Master Roshi hasn't sensed Jiren's true power, so I doubt he'd actually be destroyed even if he hadn't blocked it.

      SSJ Kefla was implied to be comparable if not stronger than that Spirit Bomb and was what forced Goku to go UIO and even stronger than before, but she was pretty much getting stomped by UIO Goku until she went SSJ2.

      I can wait for more input, but I'm still iffy on this.

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    • Jiren casually deflected it initially, but had to physically and audibly exert himself to push it back and engulf Goku with the attack. And iirc, Whis stated the Genkidama was powering Goku while he was in UIO, which is more backing to Low 2-C.

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    • Disagree with this. A lot of context is missing here. It was quite clearly stated that UIO1 was much stronger than the spirit bomb and Jiren, even when suppressed, handled it quite effortlessly. Master Roshi's statement was just disproved later by Whis.

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    • I agree with AKM Sama, I don't think Spirit Bomb is Low 2-C. Kefla also doesn't have quite enough proof outside of SSJ2 to be Tier 2. Also, Jiren wasn't demonstrating power beyond Infinite Zamasu until after Goku became the first time UIO.

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    • AKM sama wrote: Disagree with this. A lot of context is missing here. It was quite clearly stated that UIO1 was much stronger than the spirit bomb and Jiren, even when suppressed, handled it quite effortlessly. Master Roshi's statement was just disproved later by Whis.

      Suppressed Jiren > IZ. Jiren was stated to be the strongest during his clash with the Spirit Bomb. Even during their clash Jiren actually had to use some effort using two hands instead of his initial one hand. The clash is even drawn out through the course of the battle. Roshi’s statement still holds up because getting hit with the Spirit Bomb would have more of an impact. For example Kid Buu was able to clash with the Spirit Bomb but when Goku pushed it further, he got vaporized. BTW which statement from Whis are you talking about?

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    • I think that AKM and Medeus seem to make sense.

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    • Using one hand, two hands or just the glare, doesn't matter when you know it was casual. It was drawn out only because Jiren was toying. Roshi's statement doesn't hold unless you think the Spirit Bomb is stronger than UI Goku, he knew Jiren wasn't even at his full power, due to Whis's exposition. Also the Spirit Bomb didn't work on Buu because it wasn't powerful enough until Goku's energy got refilled and he poured his own. 

      Android 17 (who witnessed the Spirit Bomb): "Somehow Goku instantly overcame that overwhelming difference in power."

      Krillin: "You mean he powered up by absorbing the Spirit Bomb?"

      Tien: "But the power of the Spirit Bomb didn't work on Jiren. Even if that power boosted him, it doesn't explain how he can match him."

      Whis: "Precisely." And then he goes on to explain how the spirit bomb's energy only acted as a source of stamina for his depleted body and worked as a trigger to help him break his own limits.

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    • I agree with AKM sama.

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    • AKM sama wrote:
      Using one hand, two hands or just the glare, doesn't matter when you know it was casual. It was drawn out only because Jiren was toying. Roshi's statement doesn't hold unless you think the Spirit Bomb is stronger than UI Goku, he knew Jiren wasn't even at his full power, due to Whis's exposition. Also the Spirit Bomb didn't work on Buu because it wasn't powerful enough until Goku's energy got refilled and he poured his own. 

      Android 17 (who witnessed the Spirit Bomb): "Somehow Goku instantly overcame that overwhelming difference in power."

      Krillin: "You mean he powered up by absorbing the Spirit Bomb?"

      Tien: "But the power of the Spirit Bomb didn't work on Jiren. Even if that power boosted him, it doesn't explain how he can match him."

      Whis: "Precisely." And then he goes on to explain how the spirit bomb's energy only acted as a source of stamina for his depleted body and worked as a trigger to help him break his own limits.

      True but UIO was constantly getting stronger as he fought. It was the Genkai + UIO's ability to get stronger.  I get Jiren was stronger than the spirit bomb but with Belmod being scared, it provides some context for how strong it could be.  Also the point I was trying to make, with Jiren using two hands, is that the bomb would require a little more effort against the spirit bomb.  ​​​​​​One more thing, the energy he used to push back the spirit Bomb, is the same energy Shin said was different from anything they've faced. So if that energy is required to counter the Spirit Bomb, then it should logically scale.  ​​

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    • Belmod wasn't scared. He was all smiles the whole time. 

      And soon after Shin stated that, Jiren was able to explode the Spirit Bomb. Just like a weaker character doesn't scale to the stronger one just because he was able to hang with the other before getting demolished, the Spirit Bomb also doesn't scale to Jiren.

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    • Didn’t Belmod say the Spirit Bomb had him worried?

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    • I, too agree with AKM sama. 

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    • Meh, it’s nothing major anyway. This can be closed.

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    • Ins't Beerus surprised by Jiren's Ki even before the fight between Jiren and Goku starts?

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    • And Beerus also sensed Infinite Zamasu's ki in the Goku Black Arc but he wasn't was even surprised

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    • I think the point is that the Spirit Bomb required Jiren to use the power which "Is nothing like we've seen before" - The Spirit Bomb triggered Jiren's power which was superior to Infinite Zamasu. 

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    • Let’s not do this again. We already dealt with the whole “suppressed Jiren” misunderstanding which is based on a lack of context.

      Now with that out of the way, the Spirit Bomb is not Low 2-C. Saying Jiren used power > IZ to push it back to support backwards scaling is false. Jiren effortlessly handled the Spirit Bomb before that statement was even made. Only after Goku went SSBKKx20 to push it back at Jiren did Jiren decide to use a bit more power to push it right back at Goku again, and even then he was just glaring at it.

      It doesn’t support Low 2-C via backwards scaling, not even it triggering Goku to enter UIO 1 support that because Tien said the Spirit Bomb would not have been enough to give Goku that kind of power boost and Whis confirms that Tien was right, the Spirit Bomb did not give Goku a power boost, it only replenished his depleted ki for a very short time (since UIO 1 didn’t last long).

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote: Meh, it’s nothing major anyway. This can be closed.

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