FANDOM


  • One of the least haxxed Touhou characters vs Goku. Why not?


    Broly Movie Goku vs Windows Marisa

    Both Low 2C

    Fight takes place in the World of Void

    Goku starts in SSGSS and can use MUIS if he is pushed to that point

    Marisa already drank the Ultramarine Orb Elixir

    Both willing to kill

    Speed equalized

    Who wins?


    Goku: 2

    Marisa: 1

    Incon: 1

      Loading editor
    • Marisa steals + use Ultramarine Orb Elixir solos

        Loading editor
    • does Goku AP stomp before that happens tho?

        Loading editor
    • Still questioning how higher is Goku in Low 2-C

      Also he can't be able to touch Marisa if she can dodge every attack, and sum that she can use the Elixir to see the future and revert time to dodge more of Goku's attacks

      She just steals his techniques and dodge his attacks = solos 95% DBS

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Still questioning how higher is Goku in Low 2-C

      Also he can't be able to touch Marisa if she can dodge every attack, and sum that she can use the Elixir to see the future and revert time to dodge more of Goku's attacks

      She just steals his techniques and dodge his attacks = solos 95% DBS

      Baseline Low 2C =< Infinite Zamasu <<<<<< Very Heavily Suppressed Jiren = Initial UIS <<< Kefla =< Second UIS >=< GoD Toppo <<< Third UIS < Base Jiren <<< MUIS > Burning Ultimate Warrior Jiren

      Basicaly several thousands if not millions of times Baseline

        Loading editor
    • Still wondering why that chain scaling makes him above baseline, because apart from that he is totally a fodder for his tier xddd

      Unless he has some heavily broken hax, or some kind of good anti-hax to anything, chain scaling would not change that Goku is just another baseline in tier 2, not all is Power Scaling

      And that would not change that Marisa can just steals his techniques and use the Elixir to prevent any damage, and then she uses her Master Spark to defeat Goku, even as I know after some ending in LoLK she obtained an occult ball, so she would be able to use it and its powers (RW, Subjective Reality and other stuffs) in a fight, another thing that can give her the victory over Goku

        Loading editor
    • Goku speed stomps, Goku backscales from 438 Quadrillion times SoL, while Marisa is Massively FTL+ due to being comparable to someone who can do interstellar travelling and doesn't even have a calc.

        Loading editor
    • Goku speedblitzes

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Still wondering why that chain scaling makes him above baseline, because apart from that he is totally a fodder for his tier xddd

      Unless he has some heavily broken hax, or some kind of good anti-hax to anything, chain scaling would not change that Goku is just another baseline in tier 2, not all is Power Scaling

      And that would not change that Marisa can just steals his techniques and use the Elixir to prevent any damage, and then she uses her Master Spark to defeat Goku, even as I know after some ending in LoLK she obtained an occult ball, so she would be able to use it and its powers (RW, Subjective Reality and other stuffs) in a fight, another thing that can give her the victory over Goku

      sigh

      Infinite Zamasu is slightly above Baseline, while Mastered UI Sign Goku is possibly thousands if not millions of times above that

      Soooooooo... he's pretty much one of the strongest Low 2Cs on this site. In fact, thanks to Beerus and Champa, we know that anyone who meets or approaches the power of a GoD (which Goku surpassed with MUIS) will reach freaking 2C by simply doubling their power, since Beerus + Champa = 2C

      So basically in terms of AP Goku can slap her with his nonexistent tail and turn her into flecks of blood and protein

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:

      sigh

      Infinite Zamasu is slightly above Baseline, while Mastered UI Sign Goku is possibly thousands if not millions of times above that

      Soooooooo... he's pretty much one of the strongest Low 2Cs on this site. In fact, thanks to Beerus and Champa, we know that anyone who meets or approaches the power of a GoD (which Goku surpassed with MUIS) will reach freaking 2C by simply doubling their power, since Beerus + Champa = 2C

      So basically in terms of AP Goku can slap her with his nonexistent tail and turn her into flecks of blood and protein

      How do you know MUI Goku is "thousands or even millions" of time above Infinite Zamasu??

      The chain scaling is still bullshit, not for being superior to X character in your own verse you will be above baseline because of that. If a character has such good abilities sum with a good amount of defenses and more stuff and feats than simply PS so then he would be above baseline, but nope Goku doesn't have anything that I say before, a good example of someone who is above baseline in his tier is Hades (SS), who's not just only have a good justification for his lvl but also has a great amount of abilities that put him above the baseline of a 2C. Not all is PS x2

      Beerus + Champa = 2C?? Why??

      And doubling the power of someone it's not a good justification to say that this character, there's no reason to think that, and by that logic Asriel would be 2A because of being infinitely far superior to Flowey or Chara xd

      Also unless he can dodge a Danmaku of the lvl of a normal Touhou character the he would be able to touch Marisa. She just only uses her magic, the Occult Ball and the Ultramarine Elixir Orb and so gg kokum

        Loading editor
    • Ionliosite wrote: Goku speed stomps, Goku backscales from 438 Quadrillion times SoL, while Marisa is Massively FTL+ due to being comparable to someone who can do interstellar travelling and doesn't even have a calc.

      Well, Dreams are entire realities/universes itself, so then with that upgrade Marisa was flying between universal distances with ease, and she should possibly scales from Kaguya who with her instantaneous manip can do anything in a mere instant, so there you have infinite speed for Marisa

      Why Goku backscales from 438 quadrillion times SoL?? It wasn't the best feat of speed in DBS that Whiss was able to travel the universe in 30 minutes??

        Loading editor
    • Beerus + Champa is 2-C because it was stated that a clash between two gods of destruction can destroy 2 universes

        Loading editor
    • That maybe can be Chain Reaction rather than a direct 2C statement, specually if we consider the best thing that a GoD showed xdd

        Loading editor
    • Here it is Whis calc: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AKM_sama/Dragon_Ball_Super:_Whis%27_Speed_Feat

      I was wrong with 438, it is actually 498 times SoL.

      Why would she scale to Kaguya? Has she ever shown to do somehting similar? And doing everything in an instant it's not moving at infinite speeds.

        Loading editor
    • Also, you are above baseline if you are above someone that is baseline in your verse. Hades is a bad example because he is mostly hax rather than AP and has legit 3 universes feats.

        Loading editor
    • Why would someone need good hax, or anti hax to be above basline? There is no real correlation there.

        Loading editor
    • Even when I enter and saw directly "outdated" I can deduce that it's a bad calc, and that was completely confirmed when it was used filling scenes from the anime to scale xddd, ah yeah but Whiss stating that at the max speed that he has it would come to Earth in 30 minutes don't contradict it, topkeks

      She directly fight Kaguya at the end of IN, then she should be able to react to her movements and Danamku at this speed. To bad tha the instants in Touhou was defined as being what makes up time, the smallest unit of time and something that was used by Kaguya to create an endless corridor and exist within different timelines, ergo is infinite speed, so then Goku gets blitzed ;(

      And really?? So then what a trash of method to determine something above baseline, specially since in DBS it's just PS and 0 feats xddd, and honestly more haxs and at least 3 universal feats >>>>>> chain scaling that doesn't really ends in anything 🙃

        Loading editor
    • TheMonsterOfTheAbyss wrote: Why would someone need good hax, or anti hax to be above basline? There is no real correlation there.

      Because if you don't have at least one of both then even characters of a low lvl with OP hax can defeat you (as an example, Giorno curbstomps Goku, keks)

        Loading editor
    • “Goku is thousands to millions of times baseline.”

      What the fuck is this?

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:

      TheMonsterOfTheAbyss wrote: Why would someone need good hax, or anti hax to be above basline? There is no real correlation there.

      Because if you don't have at least one of both then even characters of a low lvl with OP hax can defeat you (as an example, Giorno curbstomps Goku, keks)

      Totally unrelated to being baseline or not, being above baseline (insert tier) refers to being above the minimum threshold of Ap/Durability for that tier. Not how good the character is compared to others in the tier.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:

      TheMonsterOfTheAbyss wrote: Why would someone need good hax, or anti hax to be above basline? There is no real correlation there.

      Because if you don't have at least one of both then even characters of a low lvl with OP hax can defeat you (as an example, Giorno curbstomps Goku, keks)

      Thats not really how it works. You dont need hax/anti hax to be above baseline

        Loading editor
    • It is outdated because before didn't have the correct size of the DB universe, which is bigger than the regular one. And it doesn't contradict it because when he travelled to earth in 30 minutes he didn't stated that he was going at full speed, he could have going casually.

      Then made a CRT to make Marisa Infinite speed, because as it is then Goku blitzstomps.

      Scalling chains were always a way to determine if something is above baseline. I don't get what you mean by PS, and there are multiple feats in DBS, I don't know why are you saying that there are 0 feats. Yeah because Hax > AP, let's say Hades is Low 2-C and he doesn't have that many hax, Goku's scalling chain would be bigger than him and thus he would have bigger AP.

        Loading editor
    • PS = Power Scaling (I think)

        Loading editor
    • I'm voting for Goku, he is simply faster and stronger.

        Loading editor
    • Ionliosite wrote:
      It is outdated because before didn't have the correct size of the DB universe, which is bigger than the regular one. And it doesn't contradict it because when he travelled to earth in 30 minutes he didn't stated that he was going at full speed, he could have going casually.

      Oh I see, but why you're still using a filler episode to scale?, if you don't know, fill scenes = unrecognized to make scaling, because this contradicts other feats or statements such Whiss stating to Bills that at the maximum speed they would reach the Earth in 30 minutes, oh but when it's related to food then they are infinite time faster than SoL xddd. That's why fill scenes aren't used to make scaling, keks. And nah he really stated it, "don't be mad that this is the maximum speed of the universe" or something like tht was sayed by Whiss when they was travelling to Earth, honestly I don't remember it clearly

      Then made a CRT to make Marisa Infinite speed, because as it is then Goku blitzstomps.

      Don't worry, when I got time I will make a CRT about that and other 2hu stuff :), but since that Goku gets speeblitzed and outsmarted by someone that is really intelligent xddd

      Scalling chains were always a way to determine if something is above baseline. I don't get what you mean by PS, and there are multiple feats in DBS, I don't know why are you saying that there are 0 feats. Yeah because Hax > AP, let's say Hades is Low 2-C and he doesn't have that many hax, Goku's scalling chain would be bigger than him and thus he would have bigger AP.

      PS = Power Scaling, keks. The chain scaling in DBS s really wanked and it's literally trash, I'm not saying that always this method will not work, but with cocobal soap this is used to wank their characters to ridiculous lvls, that "Goku is thousands if not millions above baseline" confirms what I'm saying XD. And what with you example of Hades??, there's nothing related with what I'm saying, keks Reminder that Hades solos fodder-sama xdxdxdxd  , but if we assume that Hades doesn't have feats and just one o another scaling-statement, then he just gonna be a baseline fodder, like Goku xddddd. Besides that, Marisa just uses her Danmaku and the Elixir, plus her ability to steal techniques to steal the MUI, and her occult ball to solos kokum and the rest of cocobal bro

      Also, I see that kokulibers are really prepotents when it's talked about Goku, keks

        Loading editor
    • goku FRA xddddddddddddddddddddddddd 

        Loading editor
    • Marisa solos ;(

        Loading editor
    • whatever floats your boat

        Loading editor
    • Paradisum wrote:
      whatever floats your boat

      ADMIT IT CRACK. DRAGON BALL SUPER IS ULTRA FODDER AGAINST TOUHOU

        Loading editor
    • the hell is a crack?

        Loading editor
    • A miserable little pile of secrets!

        Loading editor
    • wOah.

      I switch to inconclusive. immortality (type 5) vs thicc durability 

      unless someone argues that a baseline level being with no offensive hax ( e.g. infinite zamasu ) would be able to do jack against someone in the same ballpark as jiren then this stays incon

        Loading editor
    • can’t goku incap?

        Loading editor
    • Goku doesn't need to get past Type 5. He can knock her out in a few punches

        Loading editor
    • TheMonsterOfTheAbyss wrote:
      can’t goku incap?

      Well above I already make an explanation about how Marisa can defeat Goku, feel free to mention it if you want :)

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I was talking about the type 5. I do not have the time to adress the other stuff at the moment.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: Well above I already make an explanation about how Marisa can defeat Goku, feel free to mention it if you want :)

      Can you post the feat which makes her infinite speed?

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      Creeplord wrote: Well above I already make an explanation about how Marisa can defeat Goku, feel free to mention it if you want :)

      Can you post the feat which makes her infinite speed?

      Even if he could, it wouldn't count for this fight until it was accepted in a CRT, her profile say she's MFTL so that's what we have to use.

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote: Can you post the feat which makes her infinite speed?

      Basically scaling with Kaguya

      "Manipulation of the Instantaneous: Through manipulation of the instantaneous, Kaguya can perceive and exist within different timelines, and she can manipulate the instantaneous so that things can happen in a literal instant. Watatsuki no Toyohime described the "instant" (also known as "Femto") as being what makes up time, the smallest unit of time measurable. She used it to compare it to the "Femto Ropes" she used on Yukari, being ropes made out of infinitely small strings all tied on themselves, making them unbreakable. This implies that an "instant" is also infinitely small. Kaguya can use said "instants" to construct the "Endless Corridor" by infinitely linking small gaps of space-time together, effectively creating an infinite corridor."

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      Even if he could, it wouldn't count for this fight until it was accepted in a CRT, her profile say she's MFTL so that's what we have to use.

      Even if you don't want to accept it, Marisa has abilities to defeat Goku and he wouldn't be able to harm her with the Ultramarine Elixir Orb

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:

      Even if he could, it wouldn't count for this fight until it was accepted in a CRT, her profile say she's MFTL so that's what we have to use.

      Even if you don't want to accept it, Marisa has abilities to defeat Goku and he wouldn't be able to harm her with the Ultramarine Elixir Orb

      The site doesn't agree, it doesn't matter if I agree or not, make a CRT or you can't use it, simple as that 

      And i disagree with Marisa having ability to defeat Goku, Goku can litteraly snap and creat a shockwave that would knock her out.

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      The site doesn't agree, it doesn't matter if I agree or not, make a CRT or you can't use it, simple as that 

      And i disagree with Marisa having ability to defeat Goku, Goku can litteraly snap and creat a shockwave that would knock her out.

      That's why I'll make a CRT about it, anyway

      How Goku can get closer to Marisa if she uses her Danmaku? Even she can predict every Goku movements and then revert time to prevent it, so Goku can't be able to hurt her, that's how the UEO works

      She just use the Elixir and then use her ability to steal techniques to defeat Goku, also she can use the Occult Ball that she borrowed for Sagume against Goku, so Goku still lose xd

        Loading editor
    • 1. Goku can dodge Danamku with UI and use his own

      2. Goku apparantly blizstomps, so he kills before Marisa does anything. (should I equalize speed?)

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:

      The site doesn't agree, it doesn't matter if I agree or not, make a CRT or you can't use it, simple as that 

      And i disagree with Marisa having ability to defeat Goku, Goku can litteraly snap and creat a shockwave that would knock her out.

      That's why I'll make a CRT about it, anyway

      How Goku can get closer to Marisa if she uses her Danmaku? Even she can predict every Goku movements and then revert time to prevent it, so Goku can't be able to hurt her, that's how the UEO works

      She just use the Elixir and then use her ability to steal techniques to defeat Goku, also she can use the Occult Ball that she borrowed for Sagume against Goku, so Goku still lose xd

      Goku has danmaku too so it's meaningless, he also has IT and UI, he is also much faster.

      Stealing Goku's technique won't allow her to win, she won't even be able to use them, that's like stealing a spell when you can't use mana.

        Loading editor
    • Paradisum wrote:
      wOah.

      I switch to inconclusive. immortality (type 5) vs thicc durability 

      unless someone argues that a baseline level being with no offensive hax ( e.g. infinite zamasu ) would be able to do jack against someone in the same ballpark as jiren then this stays incon

      she only has immortality via drinking some elixir, and she would bet blitzed before that happens

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:
      1. Goku can dodge Danamku with UI and use his own

      2. Goku apparantly blizstomps, so he kills before Marisa does anything. (should I equalize speed?)

      How? None of DBS """Danmakus""" are so hellish as the Touhou ones, unless they are closed to this, also Marisa basically can dodge every Danmaku from Goku, so GG

      How he can kill someone who has Immortality Type 5??? XD, and also all what I say above x3, and no you didn't equalize speed

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Mickey1940 wrote:
      1. Goku can dodge Danamku with UI and use his own

      2. Goku apparantly blizstomps, so he kills before Marisa does anything. (should I equalize speed?)

      How? None of DBS """Danmakus""" are so hellish as the Touhou ones, unless they are closed to this, also Marisa basically can dodge every Danmaku from Goku, so GG

      How he can kill someone who has Immortality Type 5??? XD, and also all what I say above x3, and no you didn't equalize speed

      1. if human Touhou players can dodge it, Goku can too

      2. cause she needs to drink the eixir to get the immortality, and Goku blitzes before than happens. Plus she doesn't drink it as her first move

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: That's why I'll make a CRT about it, anyway

      How Goku can get closer to Marisa if she uses her Danmaku? Even she can predict every Goku movements and then revert time to prevent it, so Goku can't be able to hurt her, that's how the UEO works

      She just use the Elixir and then use her ability to steal techniques to defeat Goku, also she can use the Occult Ball that she borrowed for Sagume against Goku, so Goku still lose xd

      Goku has danmaku of his own

      Precognition doesn't means instant win. Goku is a more experienced martial artist, has reactive evolution and is far stronger. Also he's resistant to time manipulation (to what extent I'm unsure).

      BTW Kaguya isn't infinite speed either. That never-ending corridor feat is considered as spatial manipulation in her profile

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Mickey1940 wrote:
      1. Goku can dodge Danamku with UI and use his own

      2. Goku apparantly blizstomps, so he kills before Marisa does anything. (should I equalize speed?)

      How? None of DBS """Danmakus""" are so hellish as the Touhou ones, unless they are closed to this, also Marisa basically can dodge every Danmaku from Goku, so GG

      How he can kill someone who has Immortality Type 5??? XD, and also all what I say above x3, and no you didn't equalize speed

      Sorry but from the video, DBS Danmaku seems superior, since Goku's danmaku contest against Jiren didn't have such wide gaps between the attacks and covered an equal if not greater distance.

      Her immortality seems contingent on drinking something during the fight so that ain't happening most likely and Goku can knock her out or BFR her anyway

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      Goku has danmaku too so it's meaningless, he also has IT and UI, he is also much faster.

      Stealing Goku's technique won't allow her to win, she won't even be able to use them, that's like stealing a spell when you can't use mana.

      Goku's "Danmaku" aren't closed to the Touhou Danmaku, if Goku attacks with this would be meaningless because Marisa also fought against those kind of characters with a more powerful Danmaku than the DB ones

      She can steal UI and Kaiyoken, so she should has more equal physical stats, and Marisa's magic is based on her inner power, such her Master Spark, so she easily would be able to uses his techniques :)

      Also, Magic is in the second layer of the world, the layer of sorcery which represents soul, mind and emotions, so she can attack Goku's soul and mind to screw him more xddd

        Loading editor
    • I highly doubt she's strong enough to trigger UI

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Dragomer wrote:

      Goku has danmaku too so it's meaningless, he also has IT and UI, he is also much faster.

      Stealing Goku's technique won't allow her to win, she won't even be able to use them, that's like stealing a spell when you can't use mana.

      Goku's "Danmaku" aren't closed to the Touhou Danmaku, if Goku attacks with this would be meaningless because Marisa also fought against those kind of characters with a more powerful Danmaku than the DB ones

      She can steal UI and Kaiyoken, so she should has more equal physical stats, and Marisa's magic is based on her inner power, such her Master Spark, so she easily would be able to uses his techniques :)

      Also, Magic is in the second layer of the world, the layer of sorcery which represents soul, mind and emotions, so she can attack Goku's soul and mind to screw him more xddd

      Yup, as i said, they aren't close, Goku's look clearly superior.

      good luck with that, even if she could use it, any mistake with either technique would turn her body into litteral mush and the gap is too large to be closed with just Kaioken while we don't know the raw boost of the UI.

      Inner spark and magic =/= Ki, just like Goku can mimic her spell, it's pointless since it's magic and Goku doesn't even know shit about it, same for her and magic.

      Goku has resistance to soul erasure and mind is a component of ki so it wouldn't work since Goku has the AP and durability advantage (which come from his ki)

      Also none of what you said is on her profile so make a CRT and drop it until it's accepted.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: Also, Magic is in the second layer of the world, the layer of sorcery which represents soul, mind and emotions, so she can attack Goku's soul and mind to screw him more xddd

      Proof?

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:

      1. if human Touhou players can dodge it, Goku can too

      2. cause she needs to drink the eixir to get the immortality, and Goku blitzes before than happens. Plus she doesn't drink it as her first move

      XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDXDXDXDXXXDXDDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXD

      XXXXX""""""""""""""""""""DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDXDXDXXDXDXDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      Awwww man, I can't stop laugh x""DDD

      The main kokuliber argument "If X character cna do it, so Goku can make it" xD

      There's no reaosn to do it, also the players has such more reflects and precision than that stupid monkey XD, and there's something you have to know that there's a thing called in-game

      And it's very different dodges something from a game than dodge it a real time, but how... *sigh*

      She literally drank it before anything in LoLK, so yes that's her first movement, Goku still gets curbstomped dude ;), and also if we going to that way, Goku it's a very confident and let his opponent to attack first, take this to your poor husbando ;(((((

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      Creeplord wrote: Also, Magic is in the second layer of the world, the layer of sorcery which represents soul, mind and emotions, so she can attack Goku's soul and mind to screw him more xddd

      Proof?


      )))

      https://i.imgur.com/yM0Z5dr.jpg

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      Mickey1940 wrote:

      1. if human Touhou players can dodge it, Goku can too

      2. cause she needs to drink the eixir to get the immortality, and Goku blitzes before than happens. Plus she doesn't drink it as her first move

      XXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDXDXDXDXXXDXDDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXDXDXDDXDXDXDXD

      XXXXX""""""""""""""""""""DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      XDXDXDXXDXDXDXDXDXDXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

      Awwww man, I can't stop laugh x""DDD

      The main kokuliber argument "If X character cna do it, so Goku can make it" xD

      There's no reaosn to do it, also the players has such more reflects and precision than that stupid monkey XD, and there's something you have to know that there's a thing called in-game

      And it's very different dodges something from a game than dodge it a real time, but how... *sigh*

      She literally drank it before anything in LoLK, so yes that's her first movement, Goku still gets curbstomped dude ;), and also if we going to that way, Goku it's a very confident and let his opponent to attack first, take this to your poor husbando ;(((((

      1. That's pretty disrespectful of you

      2. I mean that since Goku blitzstomps and since Goku's Danmaku doesn't leave intentional massive gaps in it, Goku can easily dodge even without UI, and his Danmaku actualy hits

      3. Still doesn't stop Goku from killing her a couple of thousands of times over before the bottle touches her lips

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:

      )))

      https://i.imgur.com/yM0Z5dr.jpg

      She's a Youkai Hunter not a Youkai. You gave zero evidence that she can control mind or manipulate souls

        Loading editor
    • This is a stomp for Goku

        Loading editor
    • Lord Ace900 wrote:
      This is a stomp for Goku

      should I equalize speed?

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce
      JackJoyce removed this reply because:
      17:07, September 28, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Dragomer wrote:

      Yup, as i said, they aren't close, Goku's look clearly superior.

      good luck with that, even if she could use it, any mistake with either technique would turn her body into litteral mush and the gap is too large to be closed with just Kaioken while we don't know the raw boost of the UI.

      Inner spark and magic =/= Ki, just like Goku can mimic her spell, it's pointless since it's magic and Goku doesn't even know shit about it, same for her and magic.

      Goku has resistance to soul erasure and mind is a component of ki so it wouldn't work since Goku has the AP and durability advantage (which come from his ki)

      Also none of what you said is on her profile so make a CRT and drop it until it's accepted.

      If you think that throw energy balls is far superior to something as the movements and patrols that Marisa has as I showed up with her video then I can confirm that you're a kokuliber in all words

      And how do you know that??

      Basically her magic has the same properties of the Ki, it's such Patchy who borrows her power over the Wu Xing (Chi), so I don't see problems over Marisa stealing Goku's techniques, that Goku didn't knew any shit about magic it's because he has at most average intelligence, keks

      Resistance to soul erasure=/=immunity to soul, if he didn't shoed resists direct soul attacks then there's no evidence to think that he would be able to resist it, also Marisa can just affect his emotions to leave him incap, so again GG

      As I say, don't worry about it, I will make it, but know I'm discussing who wins, not if the things that I sayed are in the profiles or not, also some things that are in the profiles aren't true, as the Goku's profile as an example :)

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:

      Lord Ace900 wrote:
      This is a stomp for Goku

      should I equalize speed?

      I think he AP stomps also so it wouldn't matter.

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:
      She's a Youkai Hunter not a Youkai. You gave zero evidence that she can control mind or manipulate souls

      If you can understand you can see that the magic layer it's compossed over the soul, mind and emotions, not only the Youkai can affect it because humans can learn magic to, so Marisa still have the ability to affect the soul, mind and emotions

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:

      1. That's pretty disrespectful of you

      2. I mean that since Goku blitzstomps and since Goku's Danmaku doesn't leave intentional massive gaps in it, Goku can easily dodge even without UI, and his Danmaku actualy hits

      3. Still doesn't stop Goku from killing her a couple of thousands of times over before the bottle touches her lips

      Sorry then :(

      Ad exactly how he blitzstomps?? Because I already debunked that "498 quadrillions faster than SoL" above, but it seems that everybody ignored it. Marisa has feats of travelling troughout DW, which has entire universe/realities in it, and do it with ease, so it's not a blitz from Goku as you say, even as I say, Marisa can scale from Kaguya

      The same as I say above ^

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:
      Lord Ace900 wrote:
      This is a stomp for Goku
      should I equalize speed?

      If you want to do it then ok, for me there's no matter

        Loading editor
    • Resistance to soul erasure should be stronger than direct attacks to the soul, because if you can resist getting your soul erased you can pretty much resist attacks that only damage them. Goku has resistance to Empathic Manipulation, so controlling his emotions won't give her the win.

      If she has done it one time, then pretty much isn't her leading move because there are much more battles in which she has been in which she didn't lead by drinking that.

      As it is Goku blitzes Marisa, and Kaguya's thingy is Spatial Manipulation not speed, so even if she scales to that, she should have spatial manipulation which she doesn't.

        Loading editor
    • This is a stomp. Goku is half 2-C. Has the speed to blitz. And marisa has no means of durability negation on her profile. 

        Loading editor
    • i'm officialy equalizing speed

        Loading editor
    • Goku hits before she uses the UOE and she dies. If she starts with it, I don't know how is she negating Goku's durability.

        Loading editor
    • Still a stomp. The gap between low 2-C and 2-C is potentially infinite and goku backscales from the latter. Marisa doesn’t have any means of beating goku as far as im aware.

        Loading editor
    • Read this post wrote:
      Still a stomp. The gap between low 2-C and 2-C is potentially infinite and goku backscales from the latter. Marisa doesn’t have any means of beating goku as far as im aware.

      So basically 

      If Masrisa fails to drink the potion, she gets 1 shot

      If Marisa drinks the potion, does she outlast?

        Loading editor
    • Oh that. Doesnt the elixir reverse time in some manner? Because in that instance it would just be an outright inconclusive since marisa would just keep getting one shotted forever.

        Loading editor
    • Read this post wrote:
      Oh that. Doesnt the elixir reverse time in some manner? Because in that instance it would just be an outright inconclusive since marisa would just keep getting one shotted forever.

      I think it's like Gold Experience Requiem

      so yeah she just gets 1 shot over and over again

        Loading editor
    • However, does she lead with that in character?

        Loading editor
    • Considering it's used before an incident or so, you either use Marisa without it for a fight, or Marisa with it

        Loading editor
    • Ciruno Fortes wrote:
      Considering it's used before an incident or so, you either use Marisa without it for a fight, or Marisa with it

      so what if I gave her the option of using it mid-fight?

        Loading editor
    • If she has it then im not sure. But either way she either gets one shotted, or applies a golden experience reqium affect to herself

        Loading editor
    • @Mickey

      You're better of choosing between two versions. It's a bit silly to force that

        Loading editor
    • then I'll make it more fair and let her have the elixir

        Loading editor
    • In that case, this is an incon. Goku can't put Marisa down, and she can't scratch Goku.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: If you can understand you can see that the magic layer it's compossed over the soul, mind and emotions, not only the Youkai can affect it because humans can learn magic to, so Marisa still have the ability to affect the soul, mind and emotions

      Then make a CRT to add it in her profile else she doesn't have it for this fight. Also you didn't debunked anything. I've already mentioned Kaguya isn't infinite speed because it's considered as space manipulation

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      Then make a CRT to add it in her profile else she doesn't have it for this fight. Also you didn't debunked anything. I've already mentioned Kaguya isn't infinite speed because it's considered as space manipulation

      It's not in her profile =/= she doesn't have it, unless you can debunk what I showed to you, then she still have those abilities

      Bruh keking. I already debunked that 498 quadrillions of time faster than SoL Goku, and that chain scaling that put him "thousands (if not millions) of times above baseline", but nobody responded to it xdddd. Feel free so answer it if you want btw :)

      Why Kaguya's ability it's just considered space manip?? The mention is clear, she can manipulate the instantaneous that are the smallest units of time, and do anything in literally an instant, which means that Kaguya have that speed

      "She used it to compare it to the "Femto Ropes" she used on Yukari, being ropes made out of infinitely small strings all tied on themselves, making them unbreakable. This implies that an "instant" is also infinitely small."

      So yeah she still have infinite speed

      And nope, that she created the endless corridor with the instants doesn't make it just space-time manip, it just another of the things that she can do with those units

      And also, that feat can be considered as an infinte speed feat tho, keks

        Loading editor
    • I mean, if any value on the s = D x T formula is infinite, then that is the speed result.

      Travelling across infinite space is infinite speed, moving at an infinitely minuscule moment, i.E infinitely small time, then Infinite speed.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: Why Kaguya's ability it's just considered space manip?? The mention is clear, she can manipulate the instantaneous that are the smallest units of time, and do anything in literally an instant, which means that Kaguya have that speed

      "She used it to compare it to the "Femto Ropes" she used on Yukari, being ropes made out of infinitely small strings all tied on themselves, making them unbreakable. This implies that an "instant" is also infinitely small."

      So yeah she still have infinite speed

      And nope, that she created the endless corridor with the instants doesn't make it just space-time manip, it just another of the things that she can do with those units

      And also, that feat can be considered as an infinte speed feat tho, keks

      It is explicitly mentioned she can manipulate time. Where's the confusion?

        Loading editor
    • That it's not mentioned it, but it's mentioned that can interact in infinitely smallest units than time?? Nothing

        Loading editor
    • I'm gonna need better clarification on the DBS scaling chain, cuz it seems to me that Goku is only 8x above baseline.

      Besides wasn't shaking an infinite universe a big deal in the ToP? The exact same feat 2hus scale to when Hell was shaken?

      Voting Incon anyways, Goku gets flooded by danmaku and tanks it, Marisa spends eternity in a time loop looking for a way to kill Goku. Of course, with enough time.... anything can happen.

        Loading editor
    • PaxCruento wrote: I'm gonna need better clarification on the DBS scaling chain, cuz it seems to me that Goku is only 8x above baseline.

      This is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

        Loading editor
    • That's true, Goku it's just at most Low 2C baseline xd

        Loading editor
    • btw, any 2hu that's willing to kill ignores spellcard rules. meaning NO spellcards. No set attack patterns. Might as well assume omnidirectional attacks, especially since Marisa's Master Sparks cover her wholly.

      All I'm saying is Kasen shook infinity and then Suika broke an even bigger infinity, so 2hus might be comparable to Base Jiren

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      That's true, Goku it's just at most Low 2C baseline xd

      HOW?????!!!!! Infinte Zamasu is Baseline

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      That's true, Goku it's just at most Low 2C baseline xd

      At this point I'm pretty sure your replies are devolving into downplay territory more and more mate. Better to make your sarcasm more apparent or don't be so disrespectful which can potentially give you an infraction :(

      Also how? Infinite Zamasu at the very least is Baseline and this Goku utterly fodderizes Infinite Zamasu.

        Loading editor

    • Adasdasdasdsadsasdad
        Loading editor
    • goku fra

        Loading editor
    • Goku fra.

        Loading editor
    • AwkguyDB wrote:

      Creeplord wrote:
      That's true, Goku it's just at most Low 2C baseline xd

      HOW?????!!!!! Infinte Zamasu is Baseline

      You have only chain scaling to say that Goku it's far above baseline, plus one mention that surely it's a post hoc ergo propter hoc (Jiren being the most powerful enemy at the time), and the chain scaling is bullshit, I already explained why far above

        Loading editor
    • Akreious wrote:

      Creeplord wrote:
      That's true, Goku it's just at most Low 2C baseline xd

      At this point I'm pretty sure your replies are devolving into downplay territory more and more mate. Better to make your sarcasm more apparent or don't be so disrespectful which can potentially give you an infraction :(

      Also how? Infinite Zamasu at the very least is Baseline and this Goku utterly fodderizes Infinite Zamasu.

      Downplay territory?? Ignoring all the explanations that I I mentioned above of what I think?? Ignoring all the discussion that I have?? Ignoring that when I debunked that millions of times above baselime Goku and quadrillions of time FTL no one answered??

      Yeah, maybe because you don't like the power that I give to kokum I'm downplaying him, nice logic. But hey, that can change, feel free to answer all my debunks if you want

        Loading editor
    • It’s not scaling from Infinite Zamasu that makes DBS character’s high in low 2C AP, it’s scaling from Beerus’ stats as providing 1/2 the energy of a 2C feat that makes them so high, which this version of Goku definitely scales to by the sheer fact he’s higher than TOP Goku Blue, who could both push Jiren to show a “hint of his full power” and temporarily go toe to toe with Jiren at full power (which should either rival or surpass Beerus).

        Loading editor
    • That 2C ""feat"" is still keking, if it's what I think, sure that no one needs a more direct statement or feat, keks

        Loading editor
    • Well thus feat has direct statements from Whis and Vados, who are among Dragon Balls most reliable characters (not exactly saying much but still) and is currently accepted by the site, so make a content revision to change that if you have gripes.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: Downplay territory?? Ignoring all the explanations that I I mentioned above of what I think?? Ignoring all the discussion that I have?? Ignoring that when I debunked that millions of times above baselime Goku and quadrillions of time FTL no one answered??

      Yeah, maybe because you don't like the power that I give to kokum I'm downplaying him, nice logic. But hey, that can change, feel free to answer all my debunks if you want

      If you have a problem with Goku or Marisa's profile go ahead and make a CRT about it. Also you should know that everything in DBS anime is canon (excluding PIS obviously). So 498 Quadrillion C stands and Goku scale's from it

        Loading editor
    • People still haven't understood he is just shitposting ?

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      If you have a problem with Goku or Marisa's profile go ahead and make a CRT about it. Also you should know that everything in DBS anime is canon (excluding PIS obviously). So 498 Quadrillion C stands and Goku scale's from it

      I'm working in a CRT about Touhou now, Goku is the next btw

      And you can't use filling scenes to scale, if you has problems with what I'm saying then you're free to answer all my debunks above ;)

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote: People still haven't understood he is just shitposting ?

      Maybe I have a joking tone, but I'm not just shitposting as you say m8

        Loading editor
    • I start to thinking some or most of recent 2hu matches are goes mess because Creep arguments, like no offense but you should stop that or you just make 2hu getting a bad rep

        Loading editor
    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote: I start to thinking some or most of recent 2hu matches are goes mess because Creep arguments, like no offense but you should stop that or you just make 2hu getting a bad rep

      ¿?

      That I just disagree with many stuff doesn't give the verse a bad reputation, keks

      And exactly how is the mess??

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:

      Dragomer wrote: People still haven't understood he is just shitposting ?

      Maybe I have a joking tone, but I'm not just shitposting as you say m8

      Sorry dude but 'joking tone' (if that's how you want to call 'spamming shitposting terms like kek', fine) + not respecting the basic rule of the forum (AKA you can't use something that isn't on the character's profile unless you have made an already accepted CRT) = shitposting and that's being generous.

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      Sorry dude but 'joking tone' (if that's how you want to call 'spamming shitposting terms like kek', fine) + not respecting the basic rule of the forum (AKA you can't use something that isn't on the character's profile unless you have made an already accepted CRT) = shitposting and that's being generous.

      Bruh, keks

        Loading editor
    • Also it's curious what you say, because in others threads such Flandre vs Beerus someone was using stuff that wasn't on Beerus profile, and I didn't see so much problem like the one that you're saying now, KEKING INTENSIFIES

        Loading editor
    • See? You just like "bruh" and said "keks" overtime, just stop

      You also doesn't give a crap about the others said and straight up downplaying

        Loading editor
    • "Downplaying because I said so"

      And I already responded all what it's needed, if no one is able to debunk my debunk, then that's not Downplaying xdd

        Loading editor
    • Creep you didn't debunk anything. If you want to actually change the stats your CRT has to be made and accepted (which I doubt it will) until then use the currently listed and accepted stats or move on.

        Loading editor
    • I answered all the questions, I don't see why it wouldn't count as "don't debunk anything"

      Anyway, I see keep discussing this is ridiculous

        Loading editor
    • Incon marisa can't harm goku and goku can't kill marisa cuz ultramarine orb

        Loading editor
    • incon fra

      And would someone kindly give a link to where Goku is shown to create gapless danmaku? -_-

        Loading editor
    • Bruh momento número FRA 😔👌

        Loading editor
    • Icon fra

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: I'm working in a CRT about Touhou now, Goku is the next btw

      And you can't use filling scenes to scale, if you has problems with what I'm saying then you're free to answer all my debunks above ;)

      Says who?

        Loading editor
    • Bummel wrote: Incon marisa can't harm goku and goku can't kill marisa cuz ultramarine orb

      Is ultramarine orb similar to the temporal do-over of Whis?

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      Bummel wrote: Incon marisa can't harm goku and goku can't kill marisa cuz ultramarine orb

      Is ultramarine orb similar to the temporal do-over of Whis?

      Nope, she need to drink a potion, which basicaly remove the death status and then allow her to turn back time, she need to drink it before it does anything though, which i doubt she would be able to here.

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      JackJoyce wrote:

      Bummel wrote: Incon marisa can't harm goku and goku can't kill marisa cuz ultramarine orb

      Is ultramarine orb similar to the temporal do-over of Whis?

      Nope, she need to drink a potion, which basicaly remove the death status and then allow her to turn back time, she need to drink it before it does anything though, which i doubt she would be able to here.

      Op say Marisa already drink the elixir

        Loading editor
    • Is that allowed?

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:

      Creeplord wrote: I'm working in a CRT about Touhou now, Goku is the next btw

      And you can't use filling scenes to scale, if you has problems with what I'm saying then you're free to answer all my debunks above ;)

      Says who?

      Who knows? Maybe the most simple logic and rule when you gonna talk about the power of a character and make a vs?

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      JackJoyce wrote:

      Creeplord wrote: I'm working in a CRT about Touhou now, Goku is the next btw

      And you can't use filling scenes to scale, if you has problems with what I'm saying then you're free to answer all my debunks above ;)

      Says who?
      Who knows? Maybe the most simple logic and rule when you gonna talk about the power of a character and make a vs?

      That's not simple logic, that's canon whinning and not even warranted in this case given that the DBS anime can't have filler as it is the original product, not an adaptation.

        Loading editor
    • As I know the real canon is the manga, not the anime :eye::eye:

      And even if is the ""original product"", it doesn't means that cannot have a filling scene such the one mentioned, specially if you consider that this scene contradicts another real feats such Whis going to Earth in 30 minutes to stop Frieza, or even Zeno unable to see Dyspo, keks, look at that totally accurate 498 quadrillion of time faster than light xdxdxd

      Also, here you can see a blog that shows why the manga is the real canon (but it's in spanish, bruh momento numero latino)

        Loading editor
    • Does the elixir stop her from being KO. Also what about Goku BFR?

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote:
      As I know the real canon is the manga, not the anime :eye::eye:

      And even if is the ""original product"", it doesn't means that cannot have a filling scene such the one mentioned, specially if you consider that this scene contradicts another real feats such Whis going to Earth in 30 minutes to stop Frieza, or even Zeno unable to see Dyspo, keks, look at that totally accurate 498 quadrillion of time faster than light xdxdxd

      Also, here you can see a blog that shows why the manga is the real canon (but it's in spanish, bruh momento numero latino)

      No, it's not, Toyotaro's manga is nothing more than advertisement, nothing else.

      It is the original product, no "", try again

      Yes, it being the original product mean exactly that, it has no filler so your canon whinning is invalid, try again.

      No one care about your blog, what matter is the actual reality and the official standing of the manga and the anime and the anime is official the only canon there, try again.

      Your shitposting is just as boring and low level as your argument.

        Loading editor
    • Lord Ace900 wrote:
      Does the elixir stop her from being KO. Also what about Goku BFR?

      It doesn't, as was agreed earlier in the thread.

      And she has no counter to BFR either, as was also discussed earlier in the thread.

        Loading editor
    • Dragomer wrote:

      No, it's not, Toyotaro's manga is nothing more than advertisement, nothing else.

      It is the original product, no "", try again

      Yes, it being the original product mean exactly that, it has no filler so your canon whinning is invalid, try again.

      No one care about your blog, what matter is the actual reality and the official standing of the manga and the anime and the anime is official the only canon there, try again.

      Your shitposting is just as boring and low level as your argument.

      If there's no problem then I will start first showing you why the manga is the real canon, using information of the post that you say "no one care" (btw, it's not my blog)


      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-web-version/

      INTERVIEW WITH TORIYAMA AND TOYOTARO ON THE V-JUMP WEB PAGE WHERE THIS CONFIRMS TO REVIEW THE STORYBOARDS OF EACH CHAPTER OF THE HAND AND THE PRECISIONS OF TOYOTARO'S STORYBOARDS:

      Speaking of the manga, I want to ask you two about how you put the manga together. I hear Toriyama-sensei checks the storyboards for each chapter. - Toriyama: That’s right.

      [...]

      - Toyotarō: No no, not at all! Seriously… The more I draw, the more I realize the gap between us… (sweat). - Toriyama: Don’t be so hard on yourself! You might actually be the closest to my style. There aren’t many people who can manage that! Well, maybe there are people who can imitate my pictures, but not many artists can pull off an entire chapter the way you can! Your storyboards are really tight!


      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-1-tori-toyo-interview-book-version/

      NTERVIEW WITH TORIYAMA AND TOYOTARO ON VOL. 1 OF THE SUPER MANGA WHERE THIS SETS THE MANGA AS THE CONTINUATION OF HIS HISTORY AND HOW SATISFIED IT IS WITH THIS, RATHER THAN THE ANIME:

      - Toriyama: You’re really good at composition! It looks so cool; these days there’s no way I could draw such energetic artwork! Whenever I supervise anime and whatnot, there’s always something that bugs me and that I’ll ask to have fixed. But when I look at your storyboards, I can just take it easy. I can give it the OK in no time flat; it really makes things convenient (laughs).

      [...]

      - Toriyama-sensei, what advice do you have for Toyotarō-sensei? - Toriyama: Frankly… I’m perfectly satisfied with things the way they’re going (laughs). - Toyotarō: U-Um… Really? There’s nothing you think needs to be fixed or thrown out? Don’t hold back for my sake… (sweat). - Toriyama: Hahahaha (loud laughter). Not really… (thinks about it a little bit). Nope, not a thing! Well OK… If I have to say something, then I guess your compositions would be even better if you utilized more diverse angles. Also, I think it would be great if you included more of your own original ideas. I’m really grateful to you. I never thought an artist like you would come along TO DRAW THE CONTINUATION OF MY STORY!


      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-super-manga-vol-2-toyotaro-sensei-super-anatomy/

      INTERVIEW WITH TOYOTARO IN VOL. 2 OF THE SUPER MANGA WHERE DETAILS AS TORIYAMA SUPERVISES EACH MANGA PAGE AND CORRECT THE DRAWINGS:

      What’s your process working with Toriyama-sensei?! - I draw a rough draft based on Toriyama-sensei‘s original story, then I send it to my editor, who gets sensei to check it. It’s an honor to be able to give concrete form to sensei‘s ideas, but sometimes sensei will send over a part he drew himself, which sends me into an uproar, going back and forth between being all hyped up and feeling really down in the dumps.

      [...]

      Toriyama-sensei does corrections, making the planet larger and adding dialogue. Toyotarō-sensei then makes the final image based on these corrections.


      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/05/09/future-trunks-arc-announced-dragon-ball-super/

      http://www.kanzenshuu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/toriyama_super_trunks_quote.png

      TORIYAMA DECLARATIONS ON THE ZAMASU SAGA WHERE CONFIRMS THAT HE ONLY MADE THE ORIGINAL DRAFT OF THE HISTORY AND THAT HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT IS THE FINAL SCRIPT:

      "Next up in Dragon Ball Super, adult Trunks will be putting in his first appearance in a long time! I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office. Like last time, I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be.

      [...]

      Even I haven’t checked the final script yet. Let’s enjoy this together (laughs)!!"


      Etc etc etc. You can see all the blog. Even in spanish (if you see this as a problem), the information is clear and the sources are there to prove it.

      And as I told you, even if you want to consider the anime as ""canon"", you can see that it still has fill episodes that obviously doesn't helps to scale, I will put here an episode list that shows you all the filling episodes of DBS

      http://www.animefillerlist.com/shows/dragon-ball-super

      How curious that in the list you can see the same episode used to wank kokum's speed (:

      Seeing all this stuff and this fallacies' party, I think that the 2hu stuff can wait for a moment. I will make a CRT talking about all the fallacies that involve DBS as a whole, so don't worry m8, I will talk about that "Goku is thousands (if not millions) of times above baseline" and other stuffs :y

        Loading editor
    • Lord Ace900 wrote:
      Does the elixir stop her from being KO. Also what about Goku BFR?

      That maybe can work, but how this works? Also Marisa can evade it with the UEO if we consider that she can see the future and then revert the time to evade it

        Loading editor
    • Yes, Toriyama help Toyotaro not make the manga an absolute disaster, cool, still not the main canon, to the point DBS Broly is fully about the anime, not the manga, as Toriyama said directly here : https://66.media.tumblr.com/4a77045ce8f2c35ec964c48d179640ca/9f2f0d49e1c6da40-8e/s500x750/f72a70a9b829ec4285156cce49f3f79c7948b02d.png (cause i have the actual freaking screenshot rather than a random spanish blog that from your copy paste doesn't even say which one is canon)

      There is no 'want', the anime is canon, that's reality, welcome to it and no matter how desperate you get, inconvenient episode to your shitposting won't magicaly become fillers.

      Step up your shitposting and argument, dude cause that's just boring.

      how about you stop wasting typing time and actualy do a CRT about anything rather than just make random empty claim ? cause you haven't made any yet.

        Loading editor
    • Creeplord wrote: As I know the real canon is the manga, not the anime :eye::eye:

      And even if is the ""original product"", it doesn't means that cannot have a filling scene such the one mentioned, specially if you consider that this scene contradicts another real feats such Whis going to Earth in 30 minutes to stop Frieza, or even Zeno unable to see Dyspo, keks, look at that totally accurate 498 quadrillion of time faster than light xdxdxd

      Also, here you can see a blog that shows why the manga is the real canon (but it's in spanish, bruh momento numero latino)

      Yeah just like Vegeta not being able to lift Magetta because he weighs friggin 1000 tons, Roshi dodging Jiren's punches or Chadhan beating Kefla LMFAO

        Loading editor
    • If Marisa gets BFR'd she just needs to kill herself to go back to the battlefield, since the Ultramarine Orb Elixir will bring her back in time when she dies. Still voting incon.

        Loading editor
    • Does she get to chose at what time she comes back. Or is it just before she dies she comes back

        Loading editor
    • Also if the Elixir just brings her back from death. Goku just KO her.

        Loading editor
    • If she dies, the elixir's effects will just involuntarily happen after she dies, reversing time to before she died. If Goku manages to KO, the characters are "willing to kill", so he might not stop at just that, and kill her while she's KO'd.

        Loading editor
    • Goku is more likely to KO then Kill.

        Loading editor
    • does KO count as a win?

        Loading editor
    • Usually but it's up to you

        Loading editor
    • Lord Ace900 wrote:
      Usually but it's up to you

      i mean technically its incap, so i guess

        Loading editor
    • Incon For Reasons Above

        Loading editor
    • KO is a win condition. Being willing to kill and going for the kill or victory via death are different things.

        Loading editor
    • Also it is an unfair afvantage to let Marisa drink her stuff before the fight begins. Give Goku prep time or negate that to make it fair

        Loading editor
    • Yeah why does she have the elixir orb but Goku can't use Mafuba?

        Loading editor
    • Cause you guys weren't arguing for it? Or at least not in character for Goku even if he's willing to kill.

      The only reason it's unfair is because it turns this into a tie. Despite you guys arguing Goku has the AP advantage and him easily winning thanks to a lot of other abilities.

      If anything, it's Unfair without it.

        Loading editor
    • Not my problem.

      Make it fair or close the thread.

        Loading editor
    • This is why I said it's a stomp in the first place. She can't win

        Loading editor
    • JackJoyce wrote:
      Yeah why does she have the elixir orb but Goku can't use Mafuba?

      i never said he couldn't...?

      also if KO is a win condition then it's not necessarily an incon match

        Loading editor
    • Considering the absurd AP gap, any blow from Goku can likely kill. Wit hhis nature of always going all out, it's probably not going to be something he considered to KO. Can still happen though.

      And wow this is a fairer thread like this Ted. It's your problem if you prefer a stomp for a match instead of a fair one.

        Loading editor
    • Goku spend 80% of the TOP holding back.

        Loading editor
    • It's not Goku nature at all to go all out in the beginning.

        Loading editor
    • Exactly. Goku holds back when he wants to test his foe, specially when he is fighintng what looks like a teenager on a silly witch outfit, Goku would be less likely to hold back if Marisa looked like Kenshiro or someone really buff or with an evil ki

        Loading editor
    • AMEN
      Goku vs Touhou danmaku
        Loading editor
    • LMAO

        Loading editor
    • Paradisum wrote:
      AMEN
      Goku vs Touhou danmaku

      Is... the joke supposed to imply he'll have an easy time dodging or countering it?

        Loading editor
    • Nah, Goku is gonna get his ass whooped by Jiren and co, but then it turns out Vegeta is the fan of Goofy Goobers or something.

        Loading editor
    • Ted Ed wrote:
      Goku spend 80% of the TOP holding back.

      And like another 15% of that was when he was weakened or tired. 

        Loading editor
    • Goku FRA.

        Loading editor
    • XSOULOFCINDERX wrote:
      Goku FRA.

      jumping into a thread and fra'ing without restating the exact reason to show you actually read the whole thread

        Loading editor
    • Doesn't Goku AP Stomp her?

        Loading editor
    • XSOULOFCINDERX wrote:
      Doesn't Goku AP Stomp her?

      and then time reverses for her to respawn because of the ultramarine orb elixor

      he doesn't really have a counter to that

      so apparently you haven't read the thread

        Loading editor
    • I did, I thought he could just knock her out or something.

        Loading editor
    • XSOULOFCINDERX wrote: I did, I thought he could just knock her out or something.

      He CAN knock her out as a wincon.

        Loading editor
    • For how long would she be knocked out? And has Goku ever canonically used this as a tactic in combat?

        Loading editor
    • Dangeroustaco wrote:
      For how long would she be knocked out? And has Goku ever canonically used this as a tactic in combat?

      If killing her over and over again only leads to her reviving over and over again, then he will either 1. Knock her out, or 2. use Mafuba

        Loading editor
    • Goku's AP and BFR make him take this for me, vote for Goku.

      Or he can chop her on the back of the neck for incap, a fair few options to use tbh.

        Loading editor
    • Goku punches.

        Loading editor
    • Mickey1940 wrote:
      Dangeroustaco wrote:
      For how long would she be knocked out? And has Goku ever canonically used this as a tactic in combat?
      If killing her over and over again only leads to her reviving over and over again, then he will either 1. Knock her out, or 2. use Mafuba

      But how will he know to do that after all the deaths? The deaths cause time reversal, and Goku would lose his memories of having fought her in the first place. Think of it like Frisk and their save file in Undertale.

        Loading editor
    • Dangeroustaco wrote:
      Mickey1940 wrote:
      Dangeroustaco wrote:
      For how long would she be knocked out? And has Goku ever canonically used this as a tactic in combat?
      If killing her over and over again only leads to her reviving over and over again, then he will either 1. Knock her out, or 2. use Mafuba
      But how will he know to do that after all the deaths? The deaths cause time reversal, and Goku would lose his memories of having fought her in the first place. Think of it like Frisk and their save file in Undertale.

      It's quite in-character for Goku to neck-chop against beings vastly weaker than himself

        Loading editor
    • Beste-Serien-King-Chappa-820x410

      neck chop

        Loading editor
    • How long does this incap for?

        Loading editor
    • ... It's a neck chop. How long do you think it lasts for?

      Anyways, SBA says this:

      "Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions."

      Getting hit on the neck by such a stronger person would definitely make you stay conked out for more than an hour, I'd say. If I get smashed in the face by Hulk Hogan or something, yeah I'm staying down for a good 2 hours. Possibly get hospitalized. Still technically KO. 

        Loading editor
    • Son Goku FRA

        Loading editor
    • goku fra

        Loading editor
    • yeah I'm voting Goku

        Loading editor
    • I see 7 Votes for Goku Cena so I think we are in Grace

        Loading editor
    • Goku FRA

        Loading editor
    • This can be added now.

        Loading editor
    • Goku fra

        Loading editor
    • Goku Cena Wins Lol
      Goku x john cena fusion painting by allenthomasartist dd6v43b-fullview
        Loading editor
    • This still needs to be added.

        Loading editor
    • Added it on Marisa's Profile but Goku's profile is locked.

        Loading editor
    • Does Marisa even have a wincon here ?

      Like, Goku scales immesurably in Low 2-C via scaling to GoDs being halfway from Low 2-C to 2-C, so she can't harm him

        Loading editor
    • Does Marisa even have a wincon here ?

      Like, Goku scales immesurably in Low 2-C via scaling to GoDs being halfway from Low 2-C to 2-C, so she can't harm him.

        Loading editor
    • saiyan FRA

        Loading editor
    • Am i nonexistant to you ?

      <-<

        Loading editor
    • I just wanted to point out that Goku starts out in SSGSS here, not UI

      Do the arguments still stand?

        Loading editor
    • The arguments stand because the victor is already announced

        Loading editor
    • Ciruno Fortes wrote:
      The arguments stand because the victor is already announced

      but were they aware of this rule tho?

        Loading editor
    • Saiyajin FRA

        Loading editor
    • Grace already happened. That's what I meant

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Does Marisa even have a wincon here ?

      Like, Goku scales immesurably in Low 2-C via scaling to GoDs being halfway from Low 2-C to 2-C, so she can't harm him.

      ^^^^^^^

      it very much looks like a stomp to me

        Loading editor
    • Won't incaping her require melee contact?

        Loading editor
    • When Marisa can scale to Suika, the Drunk Oni who destroyed an infinite-sized realm known as 'Heaven/Paradise' just so she could make people fear, which had a being that's- uh... really bigger than the Universe itself within it (Amitabha, who dwarfs the Universe itself as if it's at the planck length)... And she did that in maximum 12 hours (overnight).



      Yeah, considering that, plus the fact that Marisa can dodge her attacks like how every 2hu protagonist or mid-high tiers or 2hu do... Busting such an area with relatively small amount of time (????) should equal to a great amount of 'greater-than-baseline' AP for her to be honest.

      Here's the calc, even though it's a lowball.

        Loading editor
    • Marisa, like Reimu; was able to beat Kurumi (In Pc-98, there were no spellcard rules.), a Vampire (Where Vampires were said to be maintaining the power-balance in Gensokyo, also equal in-power to inhabitants of Youkai Mountain. Including Oni's -The likes of Suika, since they also were living in the Youkai Mountain). I can provide everything via screenshots, so there it is. ^^

        Loading editor
    • Goku's scaling chain is so massive isn't not even funny, so no, Marisa can't even scratch him.

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Goku's scaling chain is so massive isn't not even funny, so no, Marisa can't even scratch him.

      But she could beat/harm the 'Sagacious Spirit' who wasn't bound by any concept (Purified herself to lack names/concepts) under Spellcard Rules and with the help of UOE, which she already drank it as how it seems.

        Loading editor
    • Junko being aconceptual doesn't make her any large margin higher in potency. it's just a different state of being

      also under spellcards rules characters restrain themsels, so it's not usefull for scaling

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Junko being aconceptual doesn't make her any large margin higher in potency. it's just a different state of being

      also under spellcards rules characters restrain themsels, so it's not usefull for scaling

      Technically, harming aconceptual beings should qualify, since she is the only one who completely lacks conceptual bounds.

        Loading editor
    • 1. Junko's true form is the only aconceptual one, her physical forms aren't like those of every other god

      2. It would just be Nonphysical Interactions anyway

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      1. Junko's true form is the only aconceptual one, her physical forms aren't like those of every other god

      2. It would just be Nonphysical Interactions anyway

      Non-physical interaction on that scale, yes. Now why can't she exactly stratch Goku?

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Goku's scaling chain is so massive isn't not even funny, so no, Marisa can't even scratch him.

      ^

        Loading editor
    • TheMonsterOfTheAbyss wrote:
      Overlord775 wrote:
      Goku's scaling chain is so massive isn't not even funny, so no, Marisa can't even scratch him.
      ^

      Scaling Chain =/= having haxes of those which you surpass, though.

        Loading editor
    • NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      Non-physical interaction on that scale, yes. Now why can't she exactly stratch Goku?

      Pretty sure at its most low-balled, Goku is dozens to hundreds of times baseline. Yeah, he stands there and wonder why this little girl is pelting him with weird shiny things. Then he K.O.s her and tries to look for her parents.

      Goku FRA.

        Loading editor
    • Planck69 wrote:
      NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      Non-physical interaction on that scale, yes. Now why can't she exactly stratch Goku?

      Pretty sure at its most low-balled, Goku is dozens to hundreds of times baseline. Yeah, he stands there and wonder why this little girl is pelting him with weird shiny things. Then he K.O.s her and tries to look for her parents.

      Goku FRA.

      Welp, so be it  -\_(/-/)_/-

        Loading editor
    • NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      Scaling Chain =/= having haxes of those which you surpass, though.

      >NPI being actual hax

      Wut?

        Loading editor
    • Planck69 wrote:
      NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      Scaling Chain =/= having haxes of those which you surpass, though.

      >NPI being actual hax

      Wut?

      I didn't mean that, but I am just wondering. Does he negs NPI via his chi/ki?

        Loading editor
    • NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      I didn't mean that, but I am just wondering. Does he negs NPI via his chi/ki?

      JamesonLaugh

      Why would that help her here?

        Loading editor
    • Planck69 wrote:
      NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      I didn't mean that, but I am just wondering. Does he negs NPI via his chi/ki?

      JamesonLaugh

      Why would that help her here?

      Hell if I know, I have no idea about DB, soo-

        Loading editor
    • How negating NPI when both of you are physical even be relevant in a fight is what I want to know.

        Loading editor
    • Planck69 wrote:
      How negating NPI when both of you are physical even be relevant in a fight is what I want to know.

      I've mistaken her NPI with soul-based attacks, chill :(

        Loading editor
    • NothingToDebateWith wrote:

      I've mistaken her NPI with soul-based attacks, chill :(

      No worries, I just found it very funny.

        Loading editor
    • @Plank

      The AP stomp gap is only 7.5x, so this very much is one

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      @Plank

      The AP stomp gap is only 7.5x, so this very much is one

      She doesn't have anything that negates durabilty? Then what was that shit-show I just read through in the above posts? Even if he were baseline, he'd still horribly out-skill her. Welp, so much for this match-up.

        Loading editor
    • So did goku win

        Loading editor
    • Goku stomped

        Loading editor
    • Btw how many ultramarine orbs can Marisa carry is their a set ammount of numbers or infinite?

        Loading editor
    • Ultramarine orb elixir's effects don't wear off, it has unlimited uses

        Loading editor
    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Ultramarine orb elixir's effects don't wear off, it has unlimited uses

      oh ok

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.