Doesn't Sans also have time manipulation though? There are multiple points in the game where he appears to either teleport or stop time. I believe he can do both. Sans shortcuts are likely teleportation, but the points where the screen goes black for a second is likely time stop. For starters, it wouldn't make sense for teleportation to distort your vision at all if he's the only one being teleported, it's also worth noting that when Sans talks to you at Grillby's, when things seem to stop around Frisk and him at the bar, it makes the same sound that happens when he teleports, some people argue that this is just for dramatic effect, but if that was the case, it wouldn't make sense for everything around the two to completely stop. And obviously, when he shortcuts, the screen doesn't black out like it does in other scenarios, it just happens. Papyrus also comments on how Sans pranks people across time and space, obviously there isn't much to take from this, but it's worth noting.
I was really hoping that we were done with people trying to argue that Sans has time manipulation. No he doesn't have it, most of what you pointed has already been went over and been ruled out to not be time-hax and in a versus thread, we go off of what is shown on the profiles and not personal takes on a character's powers.
Oof, I didn't know it was already discussed, I joined like, a few hours ago. I also didn't know that information used in a versus thread was entirely based on what's stated in the profiles, for the same reason, I did check out the rules, but I just skimmed through most of them, so my bad there I guess.
Planck69 wrote: I was really hoping that we were done with people trying to argue that Sans has time manipulation. No he doesn't have it, most of what you pointed has already been went over and been ruled out to not be time-hax and in a versus thread, we go off of what is shown on the profiles and not personal takes on a character's powers.
Although if you don't mind, can I get a link to where this was discussed or something? Kinda wanna see it for myself rather than just hearing about it, I don't doubt you or anything, I'm sure you get it.
Not really any specific threads that I have on hand, sorry. Try to look for the downgrade threads for Undertale, they seem to go over a lot of this. Undertale really went through a lot of changes during its time on the wiki. Hell. there used to be a time when Sans vs this guy was a fair fight.
Lol, rip. It's fine, but thanks anyways for clarifying all of that. Wasn't there once an argument for Sans Vs. Beerus as well? I think I also once remember the Annoying Dog being tiered at 1-C, but I may be wrong about that.
It makes sense, Undertale is a very confusing, vague, and difficult to tier verse when it comes to power related topics like these.
It's been three years and it's still undergoing revisions. This is getting kinda ridiculous at this point. Of the top of my head I can remember 2-B Undyne the Undying, High 2-A Asriel, 7-C fodder monsters and at one point 6-B Sans.
LOL "2-B" UNDYNE THE UNDYING WHAT EVEN. I mean, I've seen people say things like Asriel (with 6 human souls and all monster souls) is only as strong as 7 human children combined because he has the equivalent of 7 human souls absorbed, and they meant, like, actual human children equal to human children irl, but seriously, that's just ridiculous.
Edit: Decided to delete like half of my message that included other verses and could quickly cause a bad situation to arise.
Yeah but he never uses any time Hax during the time stop, which is good since otherwise he’d probably stomp Sans lol. He does move around opponents during time stop so he can just throw Sans into one of his gaster blaster beams.