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  • Link's page got updated with SOL arrows and more Triforce shit, so let's do a thing! DMC5 Dante, Speed is Equalized, Yadda Yadda all that good shit. Both 3-A.

    Link: 12 (Schnee, Cal, Giver, Ted, Shikeiki, SoViewtiful, Ploz, Stalker, Unoriginal, Triforce, Zeldasmash, Nicco, Ashen, Migue)

    Dante: 1 (Tony)

    Inconclusive: 4 (Dienomite, DDK, Axiom, someone else idk who man)

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    • What changes from last time?

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    • Idk. Probably still incon, but there's a bit more of a discussion now IG

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    • I mean, I was the only one who keeped his vote on Dante while eveyone else was with the incon thing. 

      Dante for my reasons on the previous thread I guess. Heck, Dante can sidestep everything with the x10 AMP speed (and since we got info on the fruit granting 3-A lvls of powah then the AP gap stays as big if not bigger than before)

      redundant and unnecessary thread is redundant and unnecessary

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    • i mean the reason dante got inconned last time was the triforce being something he couldn't sidestep, the question now is "Can Dante perma-kill Link before he gets triforced"

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    • He will blitz before Link thinks on using it and when he keeps coming back he will send his ass to the demon world.

      The argument for the incon IIRC was that either Dante one shots till he seals or that Link manages to pull it in between deaths, your call if you want to continue with it.

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    • I'm pretty sure nothing changes. SOL arrows are nothing since Dante is FTL-MFTL and speed is equalized.The new Triforce additions doesn't provide anything new or game changing from the last thread.

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    • fine with me. incon again.

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    • Yeah nothing really changes. Neither can kill the other.

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    • What does Dante have agianst info analysis + thought based EE?

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    • Amping and crossing the distance to land a killing blow before he can get there, and then managing to keep link down without giving Link a chance to think

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    • Luke mindhaxes

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    • Speed amp cancelled by Pegasus Boots + Bunny Hood.

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    • In all seriousness, Link thinks and GG

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Speed amp cancelled by Pegasus Boots + Bunny Hood.

      We already went over that in the last thread. Those aren't enough to close the gap of minimum 10x speed advantage

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    • Full TF Link falls behind Dante in terms of AP, but not majorly, as stated last thread by Kep.

      Both have sealing, Link is quicker to the trigger with it and has more ways to abuse it.

      Link is supereffective on Dante. Demon slaying sword, after all.

      Dante can fly. Link can too but it’s limited.

      Link’s more experienced

      Dante has more cool points

      Link hands Dante his sword gg.

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      In all seriousness, Link thinks and GG

      I'm pretty sure this was covered too. Basically the general consensus was Link goes for Info analysis and arrows first in character and it works or Dante DT's somewhere in there and kills then seal Link.Inconcluesive

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    • DT=FDM. And FDM boosts Link just as much as it boosts Dante.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Full TF Link falls behind Dante in terms of AP, but not majorly, as stated last thread by Kep.

      Both have sealing, Link is quicker to the trigger with it and has more ways to abuse it.

      Link is supereffective on Dante. Demon slaying sword, after all.

      Dante can fly. Link can too but it’s limited.

      Link’s more experienced

      Dante has more cool points

      Link hands Dante his sword gg.

      I'm pretty sure after Kep's comment it was concluded Dante does have vastly superior AP. Even then Dante's scaling chain has grown since then, The Qliphoth which is the lowest in the 3-A chain is unknowingly above baseline.

      I dunno about that, apparently he does other things first

      True, probably.

      Largely debatable 

      Debatable

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      DT=FDM. And FDM boosts Link just as much as it boosts Dante.

      Doesn't Link "Think and EE GG" or "EE arrow"  first? And why would Dante give him the time to put on a mask?

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    • Tfw cal mentioned Link hands Dante his sword I was thinking of the scene where Riku throws Sora's keyblade back to him. Link gonna be like "here, catch".

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      The real cal howard wrote:
      Snip
      I'm pretty sure after Kep's comment it was concluded Dante does have vastly superior AP. Even then Dante's scaling chain has grown since then, The Qliphoth which is the lowest in the 3-A chain is unknowingly above baseline.

      I'm pretty sure that wasn't ever concluded. The 2 people voting dante just sort of went with that.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      I'm pretty sure that wasn't ever concluded. The 2 people voting dante just sort of went with that.

      Really? Then we can settle that in this thread, not like it's gonna change anything since this match relies on hax more than AP but it would be a good discussion

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    • Does Dante have anything that can deal with Low-Godly?

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    • Zeldasmash wrote:
      Does Dante have anything that can deal with Low-Godly?

      Sealing 

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    • In speed equalized matches, speed amps that allow one character to blitz are prohibited. So Dante can't amp his speed by 10x.

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    • They are allowed

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      In speed equalized matches, speed amps that allow one character to blitz are prohibited. So Dante can't amp his speed by 10x.

      "During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character."

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      They are allowed

      No, they aren't. This is a direct quote from the Versus Thread Rules page: "During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character."

      Dante becoming 10x faster would result in a speed blitz, so it wouldn't be allowed.

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    • @Unoriginal Memes

      Dante is the naturally faster character and they both have speed amps. It's allowed here. No rule is broken.

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    • And if Dante doesn’t blitz, how does he prevent Link from thinking?

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    • Isn't Link faster or am I missing something?

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      And if Dante doesn’t blitz, how does he prevent Link from thinking?

      No, Dante still blitzes but it's allowed. If speed was equalized and Link had a 1000x speed boost then it wouldn't be allowed since he's the slower character who gain a benefit from equalized speed

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      Isn't Link faster or am I missing something?

      Might want to reread the profiles

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      Isn't Link faster or am I missing something?

      Dante got upgraded due to a feat drenched with cinematic timing that really shouldn't be applicable

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    • Blitzing by speed amps isn’t allowed.

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    • Oh right Dante got upgraded lol

      Yeah, Dante is allowed to blitz as he's faster

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      Dante got upgraded due to a feat drenched with cinematic timing that really shouldn't be applicable

      Sounds like something that should've been brought up in the upgrade thread

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    • Did Link's starting tactics changed or something with his revisions?

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    • Nope, just getting some regen and more hax

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Both have sealing, Link is quicker to the trigger with it and has more ways to abuse it.

      Link is supereffective on Dante. Demon slaying sword, after all.

      Link’s more experienced

      Link hands Dante his sword gg.

      Don't really see how he can seal Dante with the sword when Dante can do the same thing at a distance with his pistols, especially when lol timestop isn't going to work on Dante.

      Being part demon AND part human doesn't exactly make it fully effective against it.

      So is Dante, he's fought countless of demons including the king of them all multiple times.

      Unless the bunny hood and the pegasus boots can amp him to 10X speed, I doubt Link will easily hit him, especially when DT is one of Dante's go to move.

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    • Pap Glass is here, watching us again…

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    • Also, Dante have Dimensional Travel, so he can escape normal Sealings

      However, his Sealing nulls that since Mundus, a guy who can use Dimensional Travel, Avatar Projection that works on another dimensions and Portal Creation to another dimensions can't escape or interact while sealed by Dante's Sealing

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    • And the holy dante trinity is here. DDK, Dienomite, and Tony.

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    • I fucking loled out of this world xD

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    • Dante having dimensional travel won't stop him from escaping this sealing unless he can resist having his movement negated.

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    • Wait when’d Dante get a speed buff?

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    • Lmao, now that I saw, yeah, me, Dieno and Tony Tony Chopper are in almost everything involving Dante

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Wait when’d Dante get a speed buff?

      Probably month or 2 ago.

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    • 2 weeks ago i think.

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    • Was Kep involved or no?

      Eh, my care factor’s low anyway.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:

      Unless the bunny hood and the pegasus boots can amp him to 10X speed, I doubt Link will easily hit him, especially when DT is one of Dante's go to move.

      Bunny hood can amp Link up to 25x.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Dante having dimensional travel won't stop him from escaping this sealing unless he can resist having his movement negated.

      He doesn't need to move to use Dimensional Travel tho

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Theglassman12 wrote:

      Unless the bunny hood and the pegasus boots can amp him to 10X speed, I doubt Link will easily hit him, especially when DT is one of Dante's go to move.

      Bunny hood can amp Link up to 25x.

      i beg ya pardon

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote: Bunny hood can amp Link up to 25x.

      W0t?

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Was Kep involved or no?

      Eh, my care factor’s low anyway.

      Nope, he abstained. But others were and conceded.

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    • Dante Demon Killah wrote:

      He doesn't need to move to use Dimensional Travel tho

      How does he use it?

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    • He just does It just works

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    • I swear if this came from the Mundus fight in 1...

      I’m not gonna do anything about it so I’m just gonna debate with the stars listed like a good boy lol. Like I said before, I owe Kep and Paradox wayyy too much to question the stats of either GoW or DMC.

      That said, Dante resists time stop but can he resist three layers of it? Time stop (stopwatch) on time stop (Phantom Sword) on time stop (Stasis Rune)?

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      He just does It just works

      Dante is stand user confirmed



      See this is why I love VBW, we can all fuck around and have a good time even on hot topics like this thread

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    • From the scans I've seen it looks like it requires a form of movement. So idk where the "it doesn't . require movement" is coming from. Regardless Ganon has DT yet he can't escape sealing.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      From the scans I've seen it looks like it requires a form of movement. So idk where the "it doesn't . require movement" is coming from. Regardless Ganon has DT yet he can't escape sealing.

      What scans? Because it's basically teleportation 

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    • Link’s sealing is better than Dante’s. That’s a given. Look no further than Demise getting his essence erased due to sealing, and that was without it being the Golden Master Sword and with the Triforce.

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    • Scans on his profile. Teleportation... out of a seal?

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    • If his essence was erased, I highly doubt he would be reincarnated as a gerudo king.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      That said, Dante resists time stop but can he resist three layers of it? Time stop (stopwatch) on time stop (Phantom Sword) on time stop (Stasis Rune)?

      If you have a issue with the speed rating it's best to address it to quell any issues or correct things.But to answer your question, most likely yes.

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    • Trismagia, Mundus pocket thingy and there are probably others.

      Also, isn't that and authority fallacy or something to not question something? I mean, if you think the tiers are wrong you can go and make a thread, no problem.

      Void Mundua and The Despair are able to cause time stops, paradoxes and other things via presence alone and he can resist them on his own from dmc2 onwards and in 5 he absorbs the Sparda that grants resistance to za warudo too.

      The question is, can link deal with 2 time stops and 1 time slow? plus the speed blitz

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    • Great knowledge on Zelda, bro. Except Ganon isn’t Demise’s reincarnation. He’s Demise’s hatred given form.

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    • Well, if Link sealed beings with Dimensional Travel and it works, he can seal Dante

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Scans on his profile. Teleportation... out of a seal?

      No, his dimensional travel

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    • Dante Demon Killah wrote: Also, Dante have Dimensional Travel, so he can escape normal Sealings

      However, his Sealing nulls that since Mundus, a guy who can use Dimensional Travel, Avatar Projection that works on another dimensions and Portal Creation to another dimensions can't escape or interact while sealed by Dante's Sealing

      ^ I don't think link is doing better than this

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Great knowledge on Zelda, bro. Except Ganon isn’t Demise’s reincarnation. He’s Demise’s hatred given form.

      Oh really, so the whole curse that he placed where he'd constantly hunt down Zelda and Link's reincarnations didn't happen at all? Great to know that. Also how exactly does that disprove my point on how is essence not being erased when we see them being sealed inside the master sword rather than being erased?

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote: Regardless Ganon has DT yet he can't escape sealing.

      Ganon is another son of Sparda

        • surprised pikachu face**
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    • You mean the curse he placed before he got sealed? Heck, you got it wrong because Link is the only one that reincarnated. Zelda has descendants and Ganon is the same barring FSA.

      The direct and explicit statement of his essence being eradicated is what proves it. You think I just randomly chose the word “essence”? Of course I didn’t. It’s right there in the HH.

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    • @DDK. Ganon can do all that and more tho.

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    • Dante has Yamato?

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    • Nope

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    • @Cal Right here when he loses to Link.

      My hate.... never perishes. It is born again in a cycle with no end!

      An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!

      Explain to me how in the hell this is NOT him being reincarnated?

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    • It literally says an incarnation his hatred right there.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      @DDK. Ganon can do all that and more tho.

      It doesn't matter what Ganon can do if Link doesn't resist it

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    • Yeah but Dante doesn't resist it either, and Link uses sealing faaaar more than Dante.

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    • @Grass Breh chill.

      This is the most unimportant hill to die on.

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    • Don’t worry SD Glass and I always talk like that to each other in debates.

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    • we're all chill. this is a happy place.

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    • @Cal that does not disprove the fact that the curse was why he was reincarnated, so him being erased when it was shown that his essence was sealed in the master sword makes no sense.

      >>>Only Link is reincarnated.

      Are you sure about that?

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Yeah but Dante doesn't resist it either, and Link uses sealing faaaar more than Dante.

      So what is Link's go to move then?

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    • Ray, if I had it, I could get out of any label that launches a link.

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    • In this key I think it's still triforce gg?

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    • Whatever Fi tells him to do. The sealing happens automatically when he’s fighting powerful enough demons like Ganon, Demise, and Vaati after he wounds them.

      Speaking of which, Dante being only half demon doesn’t save him, considering Ganondorf was born to human women given that he’s Gerudo, and Vaati is a Picori.

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    • Being Demon /=/ evil tho

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    • The sword sealed Link himself to seven years for not being worthy enough because he was 10. It’s not picky.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Whatever Fi tells him to do. The sealing happens automatically when he’s fighting powerful enough demons like Ganon, Demise, and Vaati after he wounds them.

      Speaking of which, Demise being only half demon doesn’t save him, considering Ganondorf was born to human women given that he’s Gerudo, and Vaati is a Picori.

      So it's a toss up what he will lead with meaning it could be a bunch of different things in his kit and his sealing will basically not happen at all because Dante is 10x minimum faster

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    • >Link was 10 y/o and the sword it's not picky

      Mi mind drifted to some darker places while reading that

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    • Wait how does Dante bypass Link’s invulnerability via Magic Armor(s) and Magic Cape, that’s active as long as Link has magic, and Link has unlimited magic for 3 days? Dante’s stronger but he’s not that much stronger to bypass invulnerability, DT or no.

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    • In short we are back to the same result as the last tread

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      >Link was 10 y/o and the sword it's not picky

      Mi mind drifted to some darker places while reading that

      >:3

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    • ...cal brings up a good point

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    • @Cal

      He IS so much stronger, he will slice thru him easily.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Wait how does Dante bypass Link’s invulnerability via Magic Armor(s) and Magic Cape, that’s active as long as Link has magic, and Link has unlimited magic for 3 days? Dante’s stronger but he’s not that much stronger to bypass invulnerability, DT or no.

      What type of invulnerability? Because if it's just AP or DB related then it's irrelevent and nothing will change except Dante using Sealing faster

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      The real cal howard wrote:
      Wait how does Dante bypass Link’s invulnerability via Magic Armor(s) and Magic Cape, that’s active as long as Link has magic, and Link has unlimited magic for 3 days? Dante’s stronger but he’s not that much stronger to bypass invulnerability, DT or no.
      What type of invulnerability? Because if it's just AP or DB related then it's irrelevent and nothing will change except Dante using Sealing faster

      >Implying link is gonna stand there while Dante uses all his options

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    • @ZephyrosOmega

      >Implying Dante has many options against someone with invulnerability or is unkillable. 

      If his opponent seems unkillable or invulnerability, Dante goes for sealing.Being 10x faster will help that process aswell. Dante has crazy amount of resistances but not a crazy amount of hax

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    • SomebodyData wrote:
      @Grass

      Breh chill.

      This is the most unimportant hill to die on.

      I don't know who this Grass person is, but he sure sounds pathetic. OwO

      Also me and Cal get into these heated topics all the time, it's nothing new between us

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @ZephyrosOmega

      >Implying Dante has many options against someone with invulnerability or is unkillable. 

      If his opponent seems unkillable or invulnerability, Dante goes for sealing.Being 10x faster will help that process aswell. Dante has crazy amount of resistances but not a crazy amount of hax

      Link can bump up his amps to heavily negate that advantage and has stuff that can end the fight, as has been discussed.

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote: @Cal

      He IS so much stronger, he will slice thru him easily.

      Dude

      He’s not

      Kep himself said otherwise and no offense, truly I mean it, I trust his word more.

      There may be more involvement in the scaling chain but nothing comes close to the gap between the True Force and anything else in the verse.

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    • Also Dante doesn’t start out 10x faster. He needs to activate DT first, and it’s not like he’s fighting a demon for hit to get all MOTIVATED lol. He’s fighting a boy dressed like a grasshopper, with the gap shortened with again, Bunny Hood and Pegasus Boots. Not mitigated, but lessened.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      Link can bump up his amps to heavily negate that advantage and has stuff that can end the fight, as has been discussed.

      No, we've got nothing conclusive about Link's amps besides GoP saying it's x25 which came as a surprise to even people who are familiar with Link. Nothing definitive

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Also Dante doesn’t start out 10x faster. He needs to activate DT first, and it’s not like he’s fighting a demon for hit to get all MOTIVATED lol. He’s fighting a boy dressed like a grasshopper, with the gap shortened with again, Bunny Hood and Pegasus Boots. Not mitigated, but lessened.

      Activating DT is his 10x faster. It's a passive add on to DT along with time stop and x10 ap 

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    • You do know that he's fought humans before in the form of Nero, that Sanctus, Arius and Lady and would still willingly go DT against them right?

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    • Even if Pegasus boots and Bunny hood were just x2 each that would mean dante wasn't even 3x faster

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    • And it isn't like Link's fought foes capable of blitzing him before (thunderblight ganon anyone?).

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    • Omega that's assuming Composite Link even leads with them, which again isn't considering how much of a coin toss Composite Link is when it comes to what he uses outside of Master Sword and Hylian shield.

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    • also flurry rush which IIRC is a 30x speed amp if he dodges one attack

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      Even if Pegasus boots and Bunny hood were just x2 each that would mean dante wasn't even 3x faster

      That's IF they are multiplicative boost in the first place.

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    • @Cal

      None taken It doesn't change the fact the he will slice link like a hot knife through butter

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    • Did research. Bunny Hood is a 1.5x amp. Pegasus Boots is 2x. Which combined is 3x

      ...if it weren’t for Pegasus Seeds which double Link’s speed with a single one eaten.

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    • For a "Composite" don't we assume his highest stats? Wouldn't that mean he has the Pegasus Boots and Bunny Hood on already?

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    • So Dante is only 3.3x faster, which is lessened to <2x with pegasus seeds

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    • Going with Link, btw. Too many win options. Only a matter of time before Link does a guaranteed win move (even without counting Fi and Ezlo), like Stone/FD Mask, Triforce GG, time travel, or land an Ancient Arrow.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Did research. Bunny Hood is a 1.5x amp. Pegasus Boots is 2x. Which combined is 3x

      ...if it weren’t for Pegasus Seeds which double Link’s speed with a single one eaten.

      I see Bunny Hood's 1.5x amp but can't find anything for Pegasus Boots 2x boost or the Seeds do you have a scan or link for them?

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      So Dante is only 3.3x faster, which is lessened to <2x with pegasus seeds

      If all of this is true, Link's attacks and most movements are still only 2.5x greater than normal and only when going in a straight line, his movement speed is 7.5x faster than normal.

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    • pretty sure 2 x 1.5 equals 3, not 2.5

      Dante being 3x faster is nothing, given that Link's tangled with the likes of Thunderblight ganon despite being heavily outmatched in terms of speed

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Going with Link, btw. Too many win options. Only a matter of time before Link does a guaranteed win move (even without counting Fi and Ezlo), like Stone/FD Mask, Triforce GG, time travel, or land an Ancient Arrow.

      That's assuming Dante doesn't just seal him beforehand.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      pretty sure 2 x 1.5 equals 3, not 2.5

      Dante being 3x faster is nothing, given that Link's tangled with the likes of Thunderblight ganon despite being heavily outmatched in terms of speed

      Correct.Dunno how I fucked that up lol.

      This doesn't matter in VS debates. I've tried to use this argument for GoH characters who constantly face characters who blitz but by the nature of VS debating, it doesn't matter or is taken note of.

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    • It should matter tbh

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      The real cal howard wrote:
      Going with Link, btw. Too many win options. Only a matter of time before Link does a guaranteed win move (even without counting Fi and Ezlo), like Stone/FD Mask, Triforce GG, time travel, or land an Ancient Arrow.
      That's assuming Dante doesn't just seal him beforehand.

      That assumes Dnate opens with sealing, which he does not according to the last thread we did on this and every fucking dante thread

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    • Ikr 

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    • Seriously tho, Link having experience fighting leagues faster opponents should count for something considering a 3x speed gap really isn't that much given the hax 

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    • @Zephyros When did I say he opens with Sealing? The moment Dante realizes normal killing won't do, he'll just pull the guns out to seal. He did that like twice against Arkham and against Mundus.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      @Zephyros When did I say he opens with Sealing? The moment Dante realizes normal killing won't do, he'll just pull the guns out to seal. He did that like twice against Arkham and against Mundus.

      That assuming Link doesn't use any of his many wincons first

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    • Which again all depends on what he even starts with considering Composite Link doesn't have a clear mindset unlike Dante.

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    • tfw the OP is at a constant debate

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    • ( :

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    • @ZephyrosOmega

      Which is assuming he would have the chance.Which is assuming what Link starts with.

      Remember Link's starting move is random unlike Dante.This is inconcluesive

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      ( :

      Did your pfp get closer?

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      ( :
      Did your pfp get closer?

      perhaps

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    • I want to sleep!

      Can we get some votes and end this already >:v

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @ZephyrosOmega

      Which is assuming he would have the chance.Which is assuming what Link starts with.

      Remember Link's starting move is random unlike Dante.This is inconcluesive

      The best that can be argued is incon for Dante, and Link has way more wincons that he's more likely to use (Triforce)

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    • No it's not incon at best for Dante. Sealing Link means he wins since Link doesn't resist it whatsoever.

      And again Link in this state has no mindset whatsoever, so it's inconclusive at best for Link since it's up in the air on what he can even do.

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    • I like that "link has no mindset" somehow equals "he's going to be stupid and not use any of his abilities while Dante freely whales on him until sealing"

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    • Dante has a wincon, it's sealing and in it's character. Link has many win con but relies on chance and assumptions.

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    • Dante's got one wincon. Link has at least 3, one of which is his main weapon, and the other of which is the main macguffin that he constantly uses.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      I like that "link has no mindset" somehow equals "he's going to be stupid and not use any of his abilities while Dante freely whales on him until sealing"

      But that isn't it. No mindset here means no typical starting tactic.The letting Dante whale on him part is from Dante having superior speed.

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    • Dante's wincon is ALSO one of his main weapons so how does that even debunk Dante's wincon?

      >he constantly uses

      He uses the triforce like TWICE total in the entire series. Only one of them was it used to wish away his foes, and the other was to just undo the damage Ganon did, and again this is a composite of DOZENS of Links. and majority of them hardly if ever use the triforce against their foes mid combat.

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    • Again, Dante doesn’t start in DT. Saying he would start in DT here is like saying Goku would open with SSB against a Budokai opponent.

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    • @Cal despite the fact that he's gone DT multiple times against formidable foes, and has Alastor to warn him of Link being a threat.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Again, Dante doesn’t start in DT. Saying he would start in DT here is like saying Goku would open with SSB against a Budokai opponent.

      >DMC5 Dante

      >Not using DT 

      Lol

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    • Every time Link has had the full triforce he pretty much immediately used it.

      Adventure of Link: Revived Zelda as soon as he had it

      Link to the Past: Fixed Ganon's mess as soon as he had it

      Link between Worlds: See above

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      @Cal despite the fact that he's gone DT multiple times against formidable foes, and has Alastor to warn him of Link being a threat.

      Ontop of that, he can detect threats aswell

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    • @Zephyros that's not the same as wishing someone to erase their existance. By that logic that's like me saying Dragon Ball characters with prep time can summon the dragon and wish their foes away, despite like none of them ever even doing that with the dragon.

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    • Please tell me how demons are comparable in perceived threat to a 17 year old in an elf getup? If Alastor would act like Fi in this situation, sure, but he has zero idea Link is formidable, as he sees a normal human, not a demon or half-demon. To Dante, Link is no different from Lady.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      @Cal despite the fact that he's gone DT multiple times against formidable foes, and has Alastor to warn him of Link being a threat.

      Dante never used alastor in DMC5, if memory serves.

      Also, like Cal said above, he's fighting a green man in a skirt. not exactly what he deems threatening.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Please tell me how demons are comparable in perceived threat to a 17 year old in an elf getup? If Alastor would act like Fi in this situation, sure, but he has zero idea Link is formidable, as he sees a normal human, not a demon or half-demon. To Dante, Link is no different from Lady.

      Alastor detect Nelo Angelo in a different dimension and disguised.Also, Dante can naturally detect his opponents.

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    • How does detecting presences equate to knowing link's capabilities

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    • Detect what, power level? No seriously, does he detect power level? Because if so, sure. But if not, it won’t matter.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      @Zephyros that's not the same as wishing someone to erase their existance. By that logic that's like me saying Dragon Ball characters with prep time can summon the dragon and wish their foes away, despite like none of them ever even doing that with the dragon.

      Every time Link has the triforce, he has immediately used it. Why would he not use it to erase Dante in a combat situation?

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      How does detecting presences equate to knowing link's capabilities

      I't s not just presence detecting.He can tell if his opponent is threat by reading the aura.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      How does detecting presences equate to knowing link's capabilities
      I't s not just presence detecting.He can tell if his opponent is threat by reading the aura.

      ANy scans or clips of him doing this?

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      ANy scans or clips of him doing this?

      It should be on his profile but if not gimme sec

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Please tell me how demons are comparable in perceived threat to a 17 year old in an elf getup? If Alastor would act like Fi in this situation, sure, but he has zero idea Link is formidable, as he sees a normal human, not a demon or half-demon. To Dante, Link is no different from Lady.

      The first thing he does in 4 is kill an old guy who is human in cold blood because Lady sended him there, now this is a battle, he knows he is fighting someone and is with the intent to kill.

      What will happen is obvious.

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    • @Zephyros He uses it to reverse any damage that's caused to his close friends and loved one, not to kill his foes. He did that once in the entire series. And Alastor sensing danger is a passive thing, it just happens even if Dante doesn't have it equiped as his go to weapon.

      @Cal I literally brought up characters that are human like Arius and Sanctum and even Arkham, they all are human and Dante was still serious against them. By that logic, it's like me saying Link won't attack Dante cause he doesn't look like a Gerudo or a pig monster.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      ANy scans or clips of him doing this?

      https://imgur.com/a/tTb2sM1

      The guy Dante is talking about is comparable to Dante in power aswell (3-A possibly Low 2-C)

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      @Zephyros He uses it to reverse any damage that's caused to his close friends and loved one, not to kill his foes. He did that once in the entire series. And Alastor sensing danger is a passive thing, it just happens even if Dante doesn't have it equiped as his go to weapon.

      Alastor didnt' do it in DMC5 either.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      ANy scans or clips of him doing this?

      https://imgur.com/a/tTb2sM1

      The guy Dante is talking about is comparable to Dante in power aswell (3-A possibly Low 2-C)

      That doesn't indicate any change in power level. THat just says that his aura changed, which given the context of the quote points towards his change in magic.

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    • @Zephyros this Dante has all the weapons from the rest of his games, so he does have Alastor in his arsenal in this fight.

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:

      The real cal howard wrote: Please tell me how demons are comparable in perceived threat to a 17 year old in an elf getup? If Alastor would act like Fi in this situation, sure, but he has zero idea Link is formidable, as he sees a normal human, not a demon or half-demon. To Dante, Link is no different from Lady.

      The first thing he does in 4 is kill an old guy who is human in cold blood because Lady sended him there, now this is a battle, he knows he is fighting someone and is with the intent to kill.

      What will happen is obvious.

      But did he use DT

      @Glass. Pretty sure Dante has prior knowledge of their threat level and then, false equivalency. One, I’m not saying he won’t use it at all and two, false equivalency because no shit he’d attack Link. You’d have a better argument if you'd have said Link wouldn’t use the FDM, but even then, Link’s more analytical and weakness searching than the hack-and-slashing Dante.

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    • @ZephyrosOmega

      Thing is Dante never cared for auras even from Void Mundus who is 3-A to Low 2-C and faced others who were the exact same thing as Chen (the guy in link) and he never cared about aura or power detections (aura reading) of his opponents until that point when Chen powered up and is stated to be on Dante's level.

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    • I've been off the thread, what exactly are the arguments atm and do any of them counter thought based wish granting?

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @ZephyrosOmega

      Thing is Dante never cared for auras even from Void Mundus who is 3-A to Low 2-C and faced others who were the exact same thing as Chen (the guy in link) and he never cared about aura or power detections (aura reading) of his opponents until that point when Chen powered up and is stated to be on Dante's level.

      And doesn't Dante have at least a slight AP advantage over link? Not enough to oneshot according to Kep and Cal, but he's still stronger by some amount.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      I've been off the thread, what exactly are the arguments atm and do any of them counter thought based wish granting?

      None really. the only one so far has been that Link wouldn't open with thought-based wish granting.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      And doesn't Dante have at least a slight AP advantage over link? Not enough to oneshot according to Kep and Cal, but he's still stronger by some amount.

      Dante had the advantage over Chen aswell yet he still detected he was a threat.

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    • @Cal he used DT against Arius and against the Savior, which was the old man he shot. Explain how is that false equivalency when you're using the superfluous point of Link not being a demon being the excuse Dante won't use DT when that same logic can be applied in reverse for Link? 

      >>Hacking and slashing Dante

      Right, the same guy who was smart enough to make Phantom fall to his death my making him break the glass ceiling in their last fight, or lead Griffon into a trap to incapacitate him for good, or the guy who when fighting Mundus, puts two and two together to make sure he doesn't absorb the orbs he summons by destroying them so he won't go all out.

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    • >Dante one shoting till he seals

      >Link erasing right of the bat

      Counters:

      >I don't belive Danre has an AP advantage and he won't go all out on a green guy

      >link doesn't have a mindset to actually say he will open with EE

      Thread in a nutshell

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    • tfw this became a legit debate

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    • It shouldn't be tbh, Dante one shots twice or thrice and notices Link coming back again and gives him the mundus treatment

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote: None really. the only one so far has been that Link wouldn't open with thought-based wish granting.

      Literally every game he has the triforce that's his go-to thing, why doesn't Link open up with it exactly?

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    • For the last time Dante doesn’t one shot. Even without the buffs Link has with his equipment. Literally nothing in the entirety of DMC has anything close a superiority level to that of the True Force, and the only reason he’s higher is because of chains. Frankly, chains in general are wanked, and I’m not even talking about Dante, and places like Death Battle handle it much better than us, but I digress.

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    • no u



      seriously tho kep/cal mundused that argument away

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    • I am still convinced Dante doesn't have a one-shot worthy gap over Link

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    • I doubt Dante one-shots especially due to the durability amp stacks Comp Link has and the AP doesn't even seem that vast.

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    • Your only proof of saying that is that the so glorius triangle is so above everything in the verse that it shouldn't be stomped, which Dante actually is by far too with such an ease that he should just tap but appeal to the authority is the best way to keep it down I guess.

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    • We can all go into Dante vs Link in AP but lets remember Link has invulnerability so it would ultimately be useless as a point to make (Even though I 100% believe Dante oneshots)

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    • Then prove that random >s compare to what the Triforce is shown to be. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that everything else in his verse would go to shit without him, 3-As included. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that 3 2-Cs recognize his power. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that thirty years of history hype it up to being the omnipotent macguffin in the franchise

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    • Same here, we can go all night with this and simply say "I dont belive you" or "you are wrong", yada, yada.

      I have class in 6 hours and I'm sleepy.

      I vote for Dante, he one shots and seals when he notices the pulp getting back to life.

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    • Durabiity amps and damage negation to the scale that he can reduce it to one heart, and invulnerability.

      No one-shot is happening and AP shouldn't even have it's time wasted when they're both 4 km away from each other so they'll be doing hax before AP.

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    • Chill Cal, no need to sound mad.

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    • I take after Giorno. I hate repeating myself.

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    • So do I... in two different threads...with the same battle...

      Fuck it, I'm going to sleep

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Then prove that random >s compare to what the Triforce is shown to be. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that everything else in his verse would go to shit without him, 3-As included. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that 3 2-Cs recognize his power. Show me Dante at his peak being so superior that thirty years of history hype it up to being the omnipotent macguffin in the franchise

      None of that is proof.Being the best thing in verse for years doesn't mean one is super powerful compared to other verses.

      The weakest 3-A in DMC is passively above baseline and blah blah blah Dante is superior to blah blah.You know what I don't even know why I care to explain this scaling.

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    • Pretty sure the whole "internal organ damage* that Sin Devil Trigger Dante has can oneshot since Link doesn't resist his internal organs from exploding.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Durabiity amps and damage negation to the scale that he can reduce it to one heart, and invulnerability.

      No one-shot is happening and AP shouldn't even have it's time wasted when they're both 4 km away from each other so they'll be doing hax before AP.

      This.

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    • Before I go

      They are 4km apart, that would be good and all if none of them could cross that distance before 1 second passed, speed is equal to Link I guess who is Rel, that distance is nothing.

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    • Anyways, where are the scans or links to Pegasus Seeds and Pegasus Boots respective speed boosts?

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      Before I go

      They are 4km apart, that would be good and all if none of them could cross that distance before 1 second passed, speed is equal to Link I guess who is Rel, that distance is nothing.

      I can still bet that between two people equal in speed, Link can still put on a mask/triforce wish/whatever before Dante can cross that distance, even IF he started in Devil Trigger.

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    • Dante will use DT or more specifically SDT at that distance. It's his main mode of transportating long distances in DMC5. And once again, that's assumming Link would use any of that.

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    • I mean considering that Link is in possession of the triforce, and literally every time he's had it he has opened with it...

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    • Even if he doesn't, the amp gap is around 3x, and all Link has to do is dodge once for that sweet sweet 30x flurry rush.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      Anyways, where are the scans or links to Pegasus Seeds and Pegasus Boots respective speed boosts?

      Peagsus Seeds are seeds that boost your speed temporarily in the oracles games.

      https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Pegasus_Seed



      Boots literally help you run faster and are a staple in the zelda series.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Pretty sure the whole "internal organ damage* that Sin Devil Trigger Dante has can oneshot since Link doesn't resist his internal organs from exploding.

      Immortality Type 7 & Low Godly regen.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      I mean considering that Link is in possession of the triforce, and literally every time he's had it he has opened with it...

      Unless Cal just forgot to reply to Glass's counter point on that topic, he doesn't

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      Before I go

      They are 4km apart, that would be good and all if none of them could cross that distance before 1 second passed, speed is equal to Link I guess who is Rel, that distance is nothing.

      So if Dante wants to be a dumbarse and attempt to move while a thought based hax wish lolnopes him and he keeps trying to punch someone with a bunch of damage negation and invulnerability stacks, he can be my guest and it makes it worse for him.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      Even if he doesn't, the amp gap is around 3x, and all Link has to do is dodge once for that sweet sweet 30x flurry rush.

      That's if Link could dodge, he's stil 3x slower and Dante himself fought against opponents who blitz'd him

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    • Link consistently dodges people equal to him in speed, don't see why this would be different especially since this is being telegaphed over 4 kilometers. Also Wind Waker Link can legit sense an attack coming and parry.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      Even if he doesn't, the amp gap is around 3x, and all Link has to do is dodge once for that sweet sweet 30x flurry rush.
      That's if Link could dodge, he's stil 3x slower and Dante himself fought against opponents who blitz'd him

      3x Slower is nothing, and- something we haven't mentioned yet- Triforce fuckin' grants Precog. Link's still invulnerable during that time by your own admission anyway.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Dienomite22 wrote:
      Anyways, where are the scans or links to Pegasus Seeds and Pegasus Boots respective speed boosts?
      Peagsus Seeds are seeds that boost your speed temporarily in the oracles games.

      https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Pegasus_Seed



      Boots literally help you run faster and are a staple in the zelda series.

      Is it a 2 to times boost?

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      Is it a 2 to times boost?

      2x boost and Bunny Hood is 25x based off the fact that it can gauge 10 seconds while regular Link can't even perfectly pinpoint 10 seconds.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      3x Slower is nothing, and- something we haven't mentioned yet- Triforce fuckin' grants Precog. Link's still invulnerable during that time by your own admission anyway.

      Dante out right resists precog.Check his DMC2 key.His invulnerability helps Dante out here because it just makes Dante go for Sealing faster, as I said before.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Dienomite22 wrote:

      Is it a 2 to times boost?

      2x boost and Bunny Hood is 25x based off the fact that it can gauge 10 seconds while regular Link can't even perfectly pinpoint 10 seconds.

      That sounds like getting a multiplier from ingame timing, which isn't allowed unless a verse has no description for anything I believe.

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    • No it comes from a mini-game where the bunny hood is required to even do the action I mentioned.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      No it comes from a mini-game where the bunny hood is required to even do the action I mentioned.

      Still ingame timing.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      Dante out right resists precog.Check his DMC2 key.His invulnerability helps Dante out here because it just makes Dante go for Sealing faster, as I said before.

      " Precognition (When serious, Dante was capable of surprising Chen, who was stated multiple times to be able to predict the future)"

      That sounds very... odd, anyways, I'll assume it's true. But it outright says "When serious", I legitimately do not remember Dante getting outirght serious unless facing people he has ties too, Link's not one of those. Why are we just assuming Dante is moving so fast that while he's hitting Link to no avail Link is just going to sit there and not counter back with thought based wish granting

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    • Where does DT giving a Kaio Ken boost come from anyway, if we’re playing that game.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      Still ingame timing.

      It's actually not, to do it without the bunny hood you'd need to irl use a stop watch and it does real-time.

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    • I'm really not seeing any way dante has to win this before link does

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Where does DT giving a Kaio Ken boost come from anyway, if we’re playing that game.

      Check the profile 

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      I'm really not seeing any way dante has to win this before link does

      This. A lot of the arguments I saw thus far just expect link to be dumb and not use the omnipotent macguffin he goes for in every game he has it.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:

      " Precognition (When serious, Dante was capable of surprising Chen, who was stated multiple times to be able to predict the future)"

      That sounds very... odd, anyways, I'll assume it's true. But it outright says "When serious", I legitimately do not remember Dante getting outirght serious unless facing people he has ties too, Link's not one of those. Why are we just assuming Dante is moving so fast that while he's hitting Link to no avail Link is just going to sit there and not counter back with thought based wish granting

      Dante had no ties to the person he performed this against (Chen) and DMC5 Dante is naturally serious. Nobody is assuming that.

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    • Scans. 

      You literally are when your argument was "oh well if invulnerability happens he just seals him" like the only way he'd be able to counter with sealing is if Link is just standing there letting him hit him.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      I'm really not seeing any way dante has to win this before link does

      Because Cal himself said Link relies on Fi to have an opening move.

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      • Devil Trigger: Dante can transform into a demonic form and his speed and strength increase, and can constantly recuperate vitality for a short time. He has a ton of these, each with a separate set of certain skills, to fit nearly every situation.
      • Majin Form: A stronger and more advanced version of Devil Trigger. It can only be accessed by Dante when he is in a near-death state
        • Sin Devil Trigger: The Strongest Devil Form that Dante has access. When Dante used the Rebellion sword to stab himself in the ruins of his former family home to stop Vergil, he absorbed its power alongside the Sparda sword. This granted him the Sin Devil Trigger, a powerful form that awakens his true inner demonic heritage. According to Nico, Dante's current state is suggested to be far more powerful than the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda himself.


      Not seeing anywhere that says "10x speed amp". Even in his powers list it just says "Statistics amplification and flight via devil trigger".

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      Scans. 

      You literally are when your argument was "oh well if invulnerability happens he just seals him" like the only way he'd be able to counter with sealing is if Link is just standing there letting him hit him.

      No, literally everything I'm saying is because Dante has the speed advantage and performs these actions in character

      and scans for what?

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      I'm really not seeing any way dante has to win this before link does
      Because Cal himself said Link relies on Fi to have an opening move.

      >Link's already touching the triforce

      >Link thinks "man I want to kill this guy"

      >Triforce: k

      Like, why are we just ignoring the wish is done upon touch and a comp Link already is touching it?

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      DMC 2 tab

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    • Hasn't Dante literally only used sealing for Mundus tho

      he didn't seal argosax

      he didn't seal vergil

      he didn't seal whatever that bullshit from DMC2 was

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      No, literally everything I'm saying is because Dante has the speed advantage and performs these actions in character

      and scans for what?

      How does he have the speed advantage, you didn't refute the bunny hood point adequeately, link has a 25x boost.

      Scans of what you claimed that Dante is always serious.

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    • I looked and saw Quick Heart. But if we’re playing the mechanics card as you’re doing with the Bunny Hood, does it make you move 10x faster in game?

      I mean, he’s not gonna sit there but yeah Fi tells him how to win after reading his opponent.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      I looked and saw Quick Heart. But if we’re playing the mechanics card as you’re doing with the Bunny Hood, does it make you move 10x faster in game?

      I mean, he’s not gonna sit there but yeah Fi tells him how to win after reading his opponent.

      The official guidebook states Quick Heart is a 10x boost, I'm saying speed boosts without official descriptions aren't taken at face value typically based off of there showings in gameplay and are considered Unknown in how much they boost

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    • I'm heading to sleep, hopefully while I'm asleep the thread doesn't turn into a shit-show.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:

      How does he have the speed advantage, you didn't refute the bunny hood point adequeately, link has a 25x boost.

      Scans of what you claimed that Dante is always serious.

      You didn't say anything.Gameplay boosts in speed are unknown unless a description or something provides the amount.

      Play DMC5 and WoG 

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    • I did. I literally pointed out why it'd be 25x and that the in-game timer is real time. It doesn't require a description, common sense.

      That's not what a scan is, so I have no reason to believe your claim now.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      Hasn't Dante literally only used sealing for Mundus tho

      he didn't seal argosax

      he didn't seal vergil

      he didn't seal whatever that bullshit from DMC2 was

      This point has been beaten to death. Reread the past thread. 

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    • If that’s true the the inverse should be too. Feats>statements after all. Statements without feats of being what the boost says it is should be taken as just hyperbole/hearsay.

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    • Also, Dieno, were you the one who made the thread:blog about sealing or was that someone else? Woever made that blog is the one I 100% agree with. Was it DDK?

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      I did. I literally pointed out why it'd be 25x and that the in-game timer is real time. It doesn't require a description, common sense.

      That's not what a scan is, so I have no reason to believe your claim now.

      Something being from a minigame doesn't prove anything especially when gameplay is inherently noncanon

      Do you want me to provide a scene from DMC5? Or the WoG?

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      If that’s true the the inverse should be too. Feats>statements after all. Statements without feats of being what the boost says it is should be taken as just hyperbole/hearsay.

      The reverse is true but gameplay is considered noncanon 90% of the time while a description from a reliable guidebook is canon which is how it is with Dante 

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    • No need. I can vouch for you here about Dante becoming more serious with age. He learned from Old Joseph Joestar lol.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Also, Dieno, were you the one who made the thread:blog about sealing or was that someone else? Woever made that blog is the one I 100% agree with. Was it DDK?

      Which one? I don't think that was me, I'm not good with stuff like that.

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    • All this thread needs to decide on at this point is whether or not dante actually blitzes, which doesn't seem to be the case as of now. If what Giver is saying is true, than Link is actually faster, though 2.5x (25x for link and 10x for dante) isn't enough to blitz IMO.

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    • >*Looks at clock*

      >tfw: O___O

      Yep, going to bed asap.Best of luck to yall.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      The real cal howard wrote:
      If that’s true the the inverse should be too. Feats>statements after all. Statements without feats of being what the boost says it is should be taken as just hyperbole/hearsay.
      The reverse is true but gameplay is considered noncanon 90% of the time while a description from a reliable guidebook is canon which is how it is with Dante 

      One last thing before I hit the hay. This is why Dante's speed in DT is still considered unknown despite gameplay showing Dante ranging from 2 to 3 times faster than base Dante.

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote: Being Demon /=/ evil tho

      Actually, Japanese Zelda constantly calls the Master Seems the “Blade of Demons’ Bane” more often than the blade of evil’s bane. I can give scans if you want.

      Dante being only half Demon doesn’t change much as the Master Sword reacts to Guardians, which are robots with just Ganon’s malice. In fact, Link would be aware that Dante is a (half) demon even before Fi tells him because the Master Sword will react to him. At that point, Link does what he always does against powerful demons (He would be able to understand that Dante’s strong thanks to the Champion’s tunic), and uses the Master Sword to seal him or something else that would be more effective according to Fi.

      It’s also quite funny that if Link just threw the Master Sword to Dante and he catches it, he gets haxed to oblivion as the Master Sword has almost shown more hax against Link trying to take it than against Ganon lol. Dante would get purified, physically attacked, his soul sealed, his life force absorbed and magic nulled

      Actually, is Dante’s sealing magic based? Because if yes, Link should be able to null it with the Master Sword.

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    • I know it’s 100% OoC (Unless Fi tells him to do it for whatever reason), but what would happen if Link gave Dante all of his gratitude crystals and made Dante fully human?

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    • I'm voting for Incon FRA both characters have an absurd amount of hax, counter hax, resists etc to the point there won't be a definitive winner imo.

      Alcuard (Castlevania), Dante (DMC), Composite Link (LoZ) etc are the kind of characters that are, shall we say "over-prepared" for almost anything lol.

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    • The Axiom of Virgo wrote:
      I'm voting for Incon FRA both characters have an absurd amount of hax, counter hax, resists etc to the point there won't be a definitive winner imo.

      Alcuard (Castlevania), Dante (DMC), Composite Link (LoZ) etc are the kind of characters that are, shall we say "over-prepared" for almost anything lol.

      I really wish Link and Alucard could fight, but Alucard would stomp due to AP...

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    • Yeah, I'll go with Inconclusive FRA here aswell, seems to be the best bet for this fight

      Also, how about Kratos vs Link tho ?

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    • Dante Demon Killah wrote:
      Yeah, I'll go with Inconclusive FRA here aswell, seems to be the best bet for this fight

      Also, how about Kratos vs Link tho ?

      Link is beating Kratos in that thread.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      Something being from a minigame doesn't prove anything especially when gameplay is inherently noncanon

      Do you want me to provide a scene from DMC5? Or the WoG?

      That's not what I said whatsoever. Firstly majora's mask entire appeal is the sidequest, this is a canon sidequest you need to do to complete the bomber's notebook, and the mini-game can only be done either: A. You have a stopwatch irl, which is clearly non-canon. B. You have the bunny hood's mask. 

      Either or and it needs to be an enemy that Dante has literally no ties too.

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    • Anywawys sticking with my vote. Link thought base wish grants and Dante legit has no feasible way I've been given that he does in-char that can stop him since attacking Link isn't going to do anything and by the time he thinks to seal, the wish has already taken place.

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    • Inconclusive for the reasons stated above

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:

      That's not what I said whatsoever. Firstly majora's mask entire appeal is the sidequest, this is a canon sidequest you need to do to complete the bomber's notebook, and the mini-game can only be done either: A. You have a stopwatch irl, which is clearly non-canon. B. You have the bunny hood's mask. 

      Either or and it needs to be an enemy that Dante has literally no ties too.

      I don't care if as side mission is canon or not. The gameplay part is what isn't, which is what I'm saying. 

      Then take Cal's word for it or look up anything DMC 2 or 5 related. (and Everything in DMC2 had no tie to Dante and he literally didn't care for any enemy nor harbored special hatred towards them in that game despite his serious behavior being prevelent)

      Also, the one Dante's fight with Chen in the DMC2 novel is another example of him being serious against someone who isn't tied to him

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      I don't care if as side mission is canon or not. The gameplay part is what isn't, which is what I'm saying. 

      Then take Cal's word for it or look up anything DMC 2 or 5 related. (and Everything in DMC2 had no tie to Dante and he literally didn't care for any enemy nor harbored special hatred towards them in that game despite his serious behavior being prevelent)

      Also, the one Dante's fight with Chen in the DMC2 novel is another example of him being serious against someone who isn't tied to him

      Gameplay part is canon as it's what the side mission correlates around and works in real time.

      Not my job to do.

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    • Wasn't DMC dante so moody cuz he was mourning vergil

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    • For the record, I see no reason to vote Dante in good faith, considering Link can become comparable or superior in speed, and by dodging he has more than enough time to pull any of his many hax

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    • I'm still confused on how Dante's countering the thought based wish granting in a feasible amount of time tbh.

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    • he's not, people are just voting incon because they still think Dante can somehow exhaust enough fo his options to go for the ONE hax that works

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:

      Gameplay part is canon as it's what the side mission correlates around and works in real time.

      Not my job to do.

      Yea, no. Gameplay isn't considered canon on this wiki  with a few rare exceptions or explicit proof.

      K, then you will just have to deny it then (despite Cal agreeing and it being common knowledge)

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      For the record, I see no reason to vote Dante in good faith, considering Link can become comparable or superior in speed, and by dodging he has more than enough time to pull any of his many hax

      You fail to understand that Link doesn't have a known starting route (Glass's points about "wish gg" with Triforce not being used was ignored or conceded) and Link has to perform multiple actions like eating, putting on boots, hats etc to even become somewhat comparable to Dante in speed meanwhile Dante just instantly uses DT.

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      he's not, people are just voting incon because they still think Dante can somehow exhaust enough fo his options to go for the ONE hax that works

      Nobody has ever argued this

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:
      For the record, I see no reason to vote Dante in good faith, considering Link can become comparable or superior in speed, and by dodging he has more than enough time to pull any of his many hax
      You fail to understand that Link doesn't have a known starting route (Glass's points about "wish gg" with Triforce not being used was ignored or conceded) and Link has to perform multiple actions like eating, putting on boots, hats etc to even become somewhat comparable to Dante in speed meanwhile Dante just instantly uses DT.

      Glass' points were just straight up debunked. Like has been said in the thread, if Link HAS the triforce, he has always used it. "No starting route lol" Is inherently unusable. Glass tried to claim that link wouldn't use it because he didn't always use it to wish away enemies, but Link was never in a position where he had to. In a position where he had to, he did. Why would anything change here?

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    • ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      Glass' points were just straight up debunked. Like has been said in the thread, if Link HAS the triforce, he has always used it. "No starting route lol" Is inherently unusable. Glass tried to claim that link wouldn't use it because he didn't always use it to wish away enemies, but Link was never in a position where he had to. In a position where he had to, he did. Why would anything change here?

      Glass already addressed that. It was one time he used it offensively and 1 incarnation of Link. Being in a position where he didn't need to isn't a point unless Link has a version of himself that just kills anything he doesn't like or is unfamiliar with with the Triforce.

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    • Ok so I want you to think rq about something as paradoxical as comp Link.

      Ganon merely touching the triforce 'immedieatly 'got his wish granted.

      Link in ALTTP touching it immedieatly got his wish granted.

      Cause the triforce bases the wish off what you're thinking, under SBA Link is thinking "i wanna kill dante" while touching the triforce.

      This is nigh-passive if it didn't require thought.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      Glass already addressed that. It was one time he used it offensively and 1 incarnation of Link. Being in a position where he didn't need to isn't a point unless Link has a version of himself that just kills anything he doesn't like or is unfamiliar with with the Triforce.

      Why does that change anything? That's one of the Link's that is willing to kill, you want to know the reason the other Links don't use it offensively? A. They don't have it. B. The threat is already gone.

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    • @GiverOfThePeace 

      SBA is willing to kill but in character.Not I wanna kill.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      ZephyrosOmega wrote:

      Glass' points were just straight up debunked. Like has been said in the thread, if Link HAS the triforce, he has always used it. "No starting route lol" Is inherently unusable. Glass tried to claim that link wouldn't use it because he didn't always use it to wish away enemies, but Link was never in a position where he had to. In a position where he had to, he did. Why would anything change here?

      Glass already addressed that. It was one time he used it offensively and 1 incarnation of Link. Being in a position where he didn't need to isn't a point unless Link has a version of himself that just kills anything he doesn't like or is unfamiliar with with the Triforce.

      What point are you even trying to make? Link only NEEDED to use it offensively once. That means he can and has used it offensively. Under Standard Battle Assumptions: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.

      Link is willing to kill. He has the method to do so. He has used it in the past.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @GiverOfThePeace 

      SBA is willing to kill but in character.Not I wanna kill.

      In-Character, Link immediately uses the triforce. so.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @GiverOfThePeace 

      SBA is willing to kill but in character.Not I wanna kill.

      So he has killing intent, circling right back to my point "i wanna kill this guy" and that's how Link thinks in-char irregardless.

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    • What even is Dante’s wincon? Sealing?

      If that’s magic-based, it gets nulled by the Master Sword.

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    • TriforcePower1 wrote:
      What even is Dante’s wincon? Sealing?

      If that’s magic-based, it gets nulled by the Master Sword.

      Disarming link then sealing, I guess.

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    • Link fraa

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    • So the only way I see him disarming Link (cause there's no fucking way he's that more skilled then Comp Link's bare min 300+ years of expereience himself and fighting a demon King whose reached well over that) is grabbing the master sword from him, which will immedieatly life absorb and seal his spirit if he does that.

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    • @ZephyrosOmega

      @GiverofPeace

      And who did he used the triforce offensively against?

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    • TriforcePower1 wrote:
      What even is Dante’s wincon? Sealing?

      If that’s magic-based, it gets nulled by the Master Sword.

      It's not magic.Demonic power is different from magic in DMC but go hand and hand sometimes

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @ZephyrosOmega

      @GiverofPeace

      And who did he used the triforce offensively against?

      Demise.

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    • Demise in SS

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      TriforcePower1 wrote:
      What even is Dante’s wincon? Sealing?

      If that’s magic-based, it gets nulled by the Master Sword.

      It's not magic.Demonic power is different from magic in DMC but go hand and hand sometimes

      That’s even worse given that the Master Sword can also null that (as shown when you get the Master Sword in TP)

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    • @TriforcePower1

      Demonic energy is considered seperate from magic in LoZ then I think it will work and make this a stomp but if it isn't then Dante bypasses

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    • I vote Link FRA

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    • TriforcePower1 wrote:
      Demise in SS

      Did he use it immediately, with a thought in character against Demise?

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    • Link should take this FRA.

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    • He got the triforce then thought about killling Demise. So the second he got the full triforce he used it's wish granting. Demise survives in the future cause acausality and then he fights Demise in a final battle, which by that point he no longer has the triforce.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      He got the triforce then thought about killling Demise. So the second he got the full triforce he used it's wish granting. Demise survives in the future cause acausality and then he fights Demise in a final battle, which by that point he no longer has the triforce.

      That's pretty sick (I like acausal bullshit).But didn't the Triforce just kill Demise by dropping that island on him? I remember this being discussed in the other thread but don't remember specifics

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    • It EE'd him via that. Pretty sure the only reason it did specifically that too was because the imprisoned couldn't move and it was a ironic death since hylia keept the island floating to keep it safe FROM Demise.

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    • Triforce also gives Link Type-2 Immortality and further invulnerability, so even if Dante can land hits, it won't stop him fast enough.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:
      It EE'd him via that. Pretty sure the only reason it did specifically that too was because the imprisoned couldn't move and it was a ironic death since hylia keept the island floating to keep it safe FROM Demise.

      But wasn't Link really bent on killing Demise (FI told him to focus now and wish with all your might for the destruction of Demise) and Zelda also put a seal on Demise (and thus was asleep) which is another reason for Link's mindset being what it is.Also, is the Triforce a one time use or is that only in SS?

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    • Cause he wasn't touching the triforce and chronologically that was the first wish ever made by a Link in the series. Why does that suddenly change the fact that he used it offensively? Yes Zelda might of been a motive, but a supporting motive does not equate to they won't do the same thing w/o said supporting motive. Seeing as Ganon touched it, corrupted the entire sacred relam, and his next wish was the conquer the light realm and the full triforce stays with him, it's multiple use. The only reason Link doesn't use it again is because iirc he wanted to keep it in an area.

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    • Being the first wish in the series doesn’t exactly make it the only way he would use the Triforce when he’s used it to bring someone back or restore a land back to normal a lot more than just wishing his foes out of existence.

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    • @GiverOfThePeace

      I don't even know what your first sentence is even arguing.Why does that suddenly change the fact that he used it offensively? Because it's a motive and Fi had to tell Link to wish with all of his might for Demise's destruction.If Link had predetermined motives for wishing for Demises destruction with the Triforce then that's important.He wouldn't have that with Dante.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Being the first wish in the series doesn’t exactly make it the only way he would use the Triforce when he’s used it to bring someone back or restore a land back to normal a lot more than just wishing his foes out of existence.

      LInk didn't have any foes to wish out of existence the other times, because every time, he had already killed them. Link to the past and Zelda 2 both.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Being the first wish in the series doesn’t exactly make it the only way he would use the Triforce when he’s used it to bring someone back or restore a land back to normal a lot more than just wishing his foes out of existence.

      The two other scenarios result in the foe being defeated. So I don't even know why you brought that up, yes he can use it other ways, why would he ever use it to restore someone in the middle of a fight where he's tryig to kill his opponent? 

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @GiverOfThePeace

      I don't even know what your first sentence is even arguing.Why does that suddenly change the fact that he used it offensively? Because it's a motive and Fi had to tell Link to wish with all of his might for Demise's destruction.If Link had predetermined motives for wishing for Demises destruction with the Triforce then that's important.He wouldn't have that with Dante.

      I was pointing out that the scene makes it a lot more dramatic and such due to that, and he's doing it without directly absorbing/touching the triforce. *Supporting motive. He would have that with Dante, cause again, he triforce's wishes activate upon thought. Don't know how many times i need to repeat this. This is nitpicking by this point. A supporting motive isn't suddenly a neccessity for him to do something like wish gg someone in a fight to the death.

      Comp Link is already touching the triforce

      Thinks to himself "I wanna kill this guy"

      Triforce: k

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    • Zelda 2 had the whole sub plot of using his blood to revive Ganon in the first place. If he was in character to use the Triforce to use it as he was in a Skyward sword he would’ve wished for the Triforce to wish away any and all trace from Ganon.

      If every single link out there got the Triforce and used it to wish his foes away, then I’d agree with you, but they all haven’t. They all have way too much of a different mindset and different Arsenal’s to use to even say that Triforce is a go to move for link when link hardly uses the Triforce to wish his foe away.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Zelda 2 had the whole sub plot of using his blood to revive Ganon in the first place. If he was in character to use the Triforce to use it as he was in a Skyward sword he would’ve wished for the Triforce to wish away any and all trace from Ganon.

      If every single link out there got the Triforce and used it to wish his foes away, then I’d agree with you, but they all haven’t. They all have way too much of a different mindset and different Arsenal’s to use to even say that Triforce is a go to move for link when link hardly uses the Triforce to wish his foe away.

      Link didn't even have the full triforce in Zelda 2 until the end. And Zelda was his top priority. you're just disproving your own points.

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    • And Link was also being hunted down by Ganon’s Minions in the second game, but he didn’t bother to use the Triforce to make sure Ganon wouldn’t revive or just wish his minions away when he used it.

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    • So we're just going to ignore that what was on Link's mind for a vast majority of that game was re-awakening Zelda and I don't even think he knew about the moblins plans and just knew they were attacking him. Irregardless, when he gained the full triforce and made his wish in Zelda 2 it wasn't while a fucking moblin was running at him trying to kill him, so false equivalence irregardless.

      K you're repeating your argument. Most links don't get the triforce. The links that do and don't use it offensively is because the main threat is dead. SS already proves if the main threat is still alive Link would use it offensively. Can we stop repeating the same debunked argument over and over again? Like half of these arguments are just ignoring context to try and make it work.

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    • @GiverOfThePeace

      But that's not it, Link had motives to kill Demise and wish him away .He didn't use it on random mooks he didn't know about or where unknown to him, he had to focus on his wish which comes from his mindset and an actual want to kill Demise vs here where it's someone he doesn't know and doesn't hate and is only willing to kill.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      And Link was also being hunted down by Ganon’s Minions in the second game, but he didn’t bother to use the Triforce to make sure Ganon wouldn’t revive or just wish his minions away when he used it.

      Link literally didn't have the full triforce until he fought his way through all of Ganon's minions to GET it.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      And Link was also being hunted down by Ganon’s Minions in the second game, but he didn’t bother to use the Triforce to make sure Ganon wouldn’t revive or just wish his minions away when he used it.

      Ganon can't revive because his regen was negated. He didn't wish the moblins away because again, his entire goal in that game was to re-awaken Zelda and restore peace to Hyrule.


      Lemme ask you a perfectly logical moral question, you have the powers of wish granting,  and your mother is lethally sick. Do you A. use the wish on your sick mother or B.Use it to wish a way a bunch of fodders you can deal with perfectly without the need to wish them away. That's basically LInk's scenario.

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    • GiverOfThePeace wrote:

      Ganon can't revive because his regen was negated. He didn't wish the moblins away because again, his entire goal in that game was to re-awaken Zelda and restoe peace to Hyrule.

      I thought it could be used multiple times?

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    • alsoDienomite22 wrote:
      @GiverOfThePeace

      But that's not it, Link had motives to kill Demise and wish him away .He didn't use it on random mooks he didn't know about or where unknown to him, he had to focus on his wish which comes from his mindset and an actual want to kill Demise vs here where it's someone he doesn't know and doesn't hate and is only willing to kill.

      Are you seriously attempting to compare a random mook to Demise. Jesus lord, well asides from the fact that I legitimately can't remember a single scene in Zelda where he has the complete triforce and fights random mooks, probably just because the mooks threat level isn't anywhere near someone like Demises? I already explained the focus part. He's not touching the tiforce and it's the first wish ever made chronologically. He doesn't need to know or hate Dante if Dante is fucking running at him attempting to kill him and he has killing intent, you're severly downplaying the concept of killing intent.

      https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillingIntent

      Also I'm legitimately getting sick of repeating this. Composite Link is already touching the fucking triforce so even if he doesn't open with wish gg in char the fact that he's touching and is clearly thinking "I'm going to kill this guy" would already activate the wish. It's legitimately nigh-passive under composite.

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    • @Giver Which doesn’t disprove my point cause this is a Composite version of ALL the Links in the timeline, not the one from Skyward Sword who was the only one who used it to wish his foes away. The one Link our of Dozens of Links who had the mindset of using the Triforce to kill his foes. The chances of Composite Link using it to wish his foes away is about as likely as Link opening with Dimensional BFR, which is from one Link out of the dozens of Links out there.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:

      I thought it could be used multiple times?

      Zelda 2 and SS act different about it, I assume it's that if you don't have the full triforce absorbed inside you, then you can only use it once. 

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