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  • Apparently Mewtwo is stated as City level due to this hilariously awful line of logic: -The mountain-sized Torterra's in the movie were, well, large enough to have gigantic mountainscapes on their backs. -Mewtwo was stated to be the strongest Pokemon ever by a 9-C Pokemon who is not particularly smart. -Therefore, Mewtwo has more destructive capability than the Torterra, whose destructive capability would really (by scenes we see in the movie) come from just their sheer size.

    This is really dumb. There's no evidence to suggest that Mewtwo has anything near the equal destructive capacity of the Mountain-sized Torterras. In fact, we don't even know the power of the mountain-sized torterras: the only thing they do in the movie is wake-up, shake their head, and go back to sleep.

    I propose that Mewtwo be nerfed down to 9-B durability, attack potency and striking strength due to him being far superior to Detective Pikachu. I also propose nerfing Detective Pikachu himself to only wall-level durability/AP.

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    • The correct way to inform the info the profile gives would have been to mention the statement Mewtwo had and that it in turn makes him above those Torterras, instead the profile just presents Mewtwo being stronger than them as a fact.

      The arrogance there is a good example of what not to do.

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    • As far as Detective Pikachu Mewtwo himself goes, his page should be straight up deleted in general and just add his stuff onto Mewtwo's composite page.

      Detective Pikachu is already confirmed to have taken place in the same Pokemon Multiverse, it is not its own seperate thing. So there is absolutely no reason why Mewtwos stats from this movie should be any different from any other Mewtwo in the first place.

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    • Yeah, I was wondering why our composite Mewtwo didn't have his soul hax.

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    • Kukui’s right. Believe it or not, movie has been stated to be canon.

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    • If the movie is canon, why do they even have separate profiles?

      Shouldn't the new stuff just be moved to the already established profiles, then?

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    • It should. That’s Kukui’s suggestion.

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    • Seems fair to me.

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    • I mean, every Pokémon media taking place inside the multiverse is just the natural order of things, but this one was outright stated to do so?

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    • Ionliosite wrote: every Pokémon media taking place inside the multiverse is just the natural order of things

      I'm tempted to ask but I know I'm not gonna like the response.

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    • So Detective Pikachu Mewtwo = Wider Pokemon Multiverse Mewtwo? That's very odd. Could I get a link referencing the statement saying that Detective Pikachu is canon?

      and while we are at it, Pokemon has various separate canons, as stated on the bulbapedia page, so what exactly is Detective Pikachu canon for?



      Also, I think adding Detective P Mewtwo to Composite Mewtwo is very strange. His stats are so wildly different from normal Mewtwo's stats that it wouldn't make any sense.

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    • I agree with that. Even if Torterra is stronger than Mewtwo, he still poses less danger to humanity

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    • I agree with the OP.

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    • Pokemon Detective pikachu psyduck blast movie scene

      Pokemon Detective pikachu psyduck blast movie scene

      we also have a feat from Psyduck! 

      he must be weaker than Mewtwo

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    • A lot of people seem to agree with me here. Are any knowleageable sources disagreeing.

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    • You don't realize AP and DC are different.

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    • Bowser-us wrote:
      Pokemon Detective pikachu psyduck blast movie scene

      Pokemon Detective pikachu psyduck blast movie scene

      we also have a feat from Psyduck! 

      he must be weaker than Mewtwo

      I mean, Psyduck is already among the Pokemon that we scale to 8-A based on evolutionary stages, among a few other, less weighted factors. (And if you're wondering why 8-A, IIRC, it's because of moves like Twister, Earth Power, & various anime feats & such. The system is also in part, used so that Pokemon can have consistent ratings. It's very inconsistent.)

      I forget where, but there may be a more-or-less up-to-date blog about Pokemon tiering somewhere.

      Anyway, while that feat is impressive to watch, as a feat.... 3 Greninja is 120 kilograms, total.

      For comparison, here's an outdated calculation where an explosion launches 300 kilograms a distance of 1.33 kilometers: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Golem_Leaps_Between_Mountains

      That's more mass than those Greninja, & probably more distance than they were sent, & it's only Wall Level.

      And I doubt the dust that radiates out so far in a ring helps enough either.



      So unless I missed something, I doubt it's something our Wiki would consider impressive as a feat for any of the Pokemon involved, sorry to say.

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    • bump

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    • Bump?

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    • Now that the page has been deleted, have the abilities from that Mewtwo's profile been added to the main Mewtwo profile?

      Also, Detective Pikachu's tier 7 needs to be removed.

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    • I am not sure yet but here is the source code of the deleted page if needed:

      {{Tab2|maintext=Mewtwo|link1=Mewtwo|tab1=Original|link2=Mewtwo (Detective Pikachu)|tab2=Detective Pikachu}}[[File:Mewtwo_Detective_Pikachu.jpg|right|400px]]
      
      {{Quote|Humanity is evil, but you have shown me that not all humans are bad.|Mewtwo speaking to Harry Goodman}}
      
      ==Summary==
      '''Mewtwo''' is the Genetic Pokemon, created by an unknown organization 20 years ago. Later, He was later recaptured by Harry Goodman, who was sent by Howard Clifford. However, Mewtwo was later freed by Harry and [[Detective Pikachu|his Pikachu]]. After Howard sent a trio of Greninja after Harry, leaving him just barely alive, Mewtwo saved Harry's life by wiping his Pikachu's memory and transferring Harry's mind and soul into his Pikachu. He was sought by Howard due to his ability to fuse Pokemon and humans together, an act he saw as bringing out the best in humanity.
      
      ==Powers and Stats==
      '''[[Tiering System|Tier]]:''' At least '''7-B'''
      
      '''Name:''' Mewtwo
      
      '''Origin:''' [[Pokemon]]: Detective Pikachu
      
      '''Gender:''' Unknown (Male Voiced)
      
      '''Age:''' At least 20 years old
      
      '''Classification:''' Pokemon, Experiment, Clone of Mew
      
      '''Powers and Abilities:''' [[Superhuman Physical Characteristics]], [[Telekinesis|Psychokinesis]], [[Flight]], [[Energy Projection]], [[Memory Manipulation]], [[Soul Manipulation|Soul]] & [[Mind Manipulation|Mind Transfer/Seperation]] (Only works when the opponent is in [https://gfycat.com/informalimpressionablecrane a crazed or mental incapacitated state]), Limited [[Electricity Manipulation]], [[Healing]], [[Resistance]] to extreme temperatures ([https://gfycat.com/medicalkeenhamster Flew through an exploding Pikachu balloon with no difficulty])
      
      '''[[Attack Potency]]:''' At least '''City level''' (Superior to the experimented Torterras, who are large enough to hold mountains on their backs)
      
      '''[[Speed]]:''' At least '''Subsonic''' (Able to move up and down skyscrapers in seconds), likely '''higher''' (Flew through large sections of Ryme City within seconds)
      
      '''[[Lifting Strength]]:''' Likely '''Class M'''
      
      '''[[Striking Strength]]:''' At least '''City Class'''
      
      '''[[Durability]]:''' At least '''City level'''
      
      '''[[Stamina]]:''' High
      
      '''[[Range]]:''' Standard melee range, Kilometers with psychic abilities
      
      '''[[Standard Equipment]]:''' None 
      
      '''[[Intelligence]]:''' Above Average
      
      '''Weaknesses:''' Has been shown to become incapacitated by forms of electricity.
      
      '''[[Feats]]:''' [https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/cdr14q/respect_mewtwo_pokemon_detective_pikachu/ Respect thread]
      
      ==Others==
      '''Notable Victories:'''
      
      '''Notable Losses:'''
      
      '''Inconclusive Matches:'''
      [[Category:Characters]]
      [[Category:Movie Characters]]
      [[Category:Clones]]
      [[Category:Psychics]]
      [[Category:Pokemon]]
      [[Category:Heroes]]
      [[Category:Telekinesis Users]]
      [[Category:Flight Users]]
      [[Category:Energy Users]]
      [[Category:Memory Users]]
      [[Category:Mind Users]]
      [[Category:Soul Users]]
      [[Category:Electricity Users]]
      [[Category:Healers]]
      [[Category:Monsters]]
      [[Category:Legendary Pokemon]]
      [[Category:Cats]]
      [[Category:Male Characters]]
      [[Category:Artificial Characters]]
      [[Category:Tier 7]]
      
      
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    • I handled both.

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    • Actually, why do we have the Detective Pikachu page? Shouldn't it just scale to all other Pikachu?

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      Actually, why do we have the Detective Pikachu page? Shouldn't it just scale to all other Pikachu?

      Can't believe I didn't mention this before either. 

      Pikachu should be the same as Mewtwo, so IDEK why we even need a Detective Pikachu page. It's not a special pikachu, just a regular pikachu given Harry's soul but then becomes a regular pikachu again at the end of the movie. 

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    • So we should delete that page too?

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    • Ionliosite wrote: So we should delete that page too?

      ^^

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      Actually, why do we have the Detective Pikachu page? Shouldn't it just scale to all other Pikachu?

      Detective Pikachu is clearly set in its own world and shouldn't scale to the canon Pokemon verse.

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Pikachu should be the same as Mewtwo, so IDEK why we even need a Detective Pikachu page. It's not a special pikachu, just a regular pikachu given Harry's soul but then becomes a regular pikachu again at the end of the movie. 

      Read this

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    • That does not deal with it being seperate from mainstream pikachus entirely.

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    • Kukui is saying that Pikachu is the same as Mewtwo. If we already deleted Mewtwo's profile, why do we keep Pikachu's?

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    • Because it's not the same.

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    • Why it's not the same? That thing is literally a regular Pikachu with a man's soul, and then lost that soul anyway.

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    • It's a different continuity, one where pokemon are clearly not a strong as they are in other continuities.

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    • Blademan9999 wrote: It's a different continuity, one where pokemon are clearly not a strong as they are in other continuities.

      So you disagree with the earlier consensus of the thread? (where it was agreed that the pokemon are as strong as they are in other continuities, and thus the Mewtwo profile should be deleted)

      Meaning that you think the Mewtwo profile should be restored?

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    • But then why we deleted Mewtwo's profile? I'm going to quote Kukui's first post here:

      ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: As far as Detective Pikachu Mewtwo himself goes, his page should be straight up deleted in general and just add his stuff onto Mewtwo's composite page.

      Detective Pikachu is already confirmed to have taken place in the same Pokemon Multiverse, it is not its own seperate thing. So there is absolutely no reason why Mewtwos stats from this movie should be any different from any other Mewtwo in the first place.

      Now, give a counter argument, and if Detective Pikachu stays, then Mewtwo should be back.

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    • Detective Pikachu is blatantly its own thing. Its story contradicts that of the games, the pokemon are nowhere near their game scale, and the official statement is an offhand comment not supported by anything else.

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    • THEN WHY WE DELETED MEWTWO'S PROFILE? Give me the reasoning Mewtwo gets yeeted but Pikachu stays.

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    • It’s a specific Pikachu with vastly superior deductive skills, characterization and oh...ITS OWN MOVIE.

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    • But why we deleted Mewtwo's profile then?

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    • Same reason we don’t separate movie 1 Mewtwo from Legend Awakened Mewtwo.

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    • That being? Mewtwo Strikes Back!Mewtwo and that other one are different characters, but it's not like it really matters, given how Pokémon profiles work.

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    • Ionliosite wrote: THEN WHY WE DELETED MEWTWO'S PROFILE? Give me the reasoning Mewtwo gets yeeted but Pikachu stays.

      I kinda get the impression that Cropfist doesn't think Mewtwo's profile should have been deleted.

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    • I don't think Detective Pikachu is a normal pikachu, what the heck?

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    • He is a normal Pikachu in every single way. The only difference is having a human's soul, which doesn't affect its power at all, and loses it at the end of the movie anyway.

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    • Cropfist wrote:
      Detective Pikachu is blatantly its own thing. Its story contradicts that of the games, the pokemon are nowhere near their game scale, and the official statement is an offhand comment not supported by anything else.
      The real cal howard:
      It’s a specific Pikachu with vastly superior deductive skills, characterization and oh...ITS OWN MOVIE.
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    • That... doesn't contradict what I just said. The detective skill is because of the human, and the first post didn't save Mewtwo.

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    • Crop’s wrong for one major reason. It’s not connected to the games but to the anime. Also yeah. Some random on the internet’s words overwrite that of the people behind the movie. What clout does Crop have to say what is and isn’t canon over the directors?

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    • While our general Pikachu profile is for the Pikachu species at its wild, Lv 100 trait-neutral state, Ash's Pikachu is the one especially trained by Ash Ketchum, and Detective Pikachu is for the specific Pikachu (which is not necessarily Lv 100 and is trained by Harry Goodman whose soul is fused into by the specific Mewtwo in the same movie.

      At least three different Pikachu profiles here bro.

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    • Then explain me, why was Mewtwo's profile yeeted again? Oh, yeah

      ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: As far as Detective Pikachu Mewtwo himself goes, his page should be straight up deleted in general and just add his stuff onto Mewtwo's composite page.

      Detective Pikachu is already confirmed to have taken place in the same Pokemon Multiverse, it is not its own seperate thing. So there is absolutely no reason why Mewtwos stats from this movie should be any different from any other Mewtwo in the first place.

      And aside from that, we also have this:

      ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: Pikachu should be the same as Mewtwo, so IDEK why we even need a Detective Pikachu page. It's not a special pikachu, just a regular pikachu given Harry's soul but then becomes a regular pikachu again at the end of the movie.

      So why is the reason Detective Pikachu can stay?

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Crop’s wrong for one major reason. It’s not connected to the games but to the anime. Also yeah. Some random on the internet’s words overwrite that of the people behind the movie. What clout does Crop have to say what is and isn’t canon over the directors?

      The same clout we had to say over DBZ Kai and MLP comic's canonicity, or any other author statement that contradicted the showings, and it has nothing to do with the anime.

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    • We’re MLP or Kai said to be canon outright? No? Alright then.

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    • They have even better evidence (physical) than WoG that gets thrown out all the time? Yes.

      Next we should use Super Mario Bros. 2 even though it's a dream because Mario "has no canon"

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    • Yes. Because we already do.

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    • And that's definitely not an illogical problem at all whatsoever

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    • Well using the example from The Joker (Arthur Fleck), because Detective Pikachu is significantly weaker than the standard wild Lv 100 Pikachu and the Pikachu (Anime) that Ash raised and is one interpretation of the Pikachu in the Pokemon omniverse, he deserves a profile of himself.

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    • And the Mewtwo from Detective Pikachu has far weaker feats than our normal Mewtwo profile. Should that profile be restored?

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    • Cropfist wrote: And that's definitely not an illogical problem at all whatsoever

      Because it’s not like a character got their most iconic ability from that game, right? And it’s not like any recurring characters actually debuted in that, right? I mean Bomb-Ombs? Shy Guys? Ninjis? What are those?

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    • Oh my goodness this thread has gone off-track. I don't think we're here to talk about Mewtwo constantly, and that's like the only thing I've seen mentioned i.e. (if x exists, why doesn't y?). I think it's gotten a bit old.

      On another note, there's also the contents of the original post:

      Ayewale wrote:
      Apparently Mewtwo is stated as City level due to this hilariously awful line of logic:

      -The mountain-sized Torterra's in the movie were, well, large enough to have gigantic mountainscapes on their backs. -Mewtwo was stated to be the strongest Pokemon ever by a 9-C Pokemon who is not particularly smart. -Therefore, Mewtwo has more destructive capability than the Torterra, whose destructive capability would really (by scenes we see in the movie) come from just their sheer size.

      This is really dumb. There's no evidence to suggest that Mewtwo has anything near the equal destructive capacity of the Mountain-sized Torterras. In fact, we don't even know the power of the mountain-sized torterras: the only thing they do in the movie is wake-up, shake their head, and go back to sleep.

      I propose that Mewtwo be nerfed down to 9-B durability, attack potency and striking strength due to him being far superior to Detective Pikachu. I also propose nerfing Detective Pikachu himself to only wall-level durability/AP.

      Is this fine?

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Cropfist wrote: And that's definitely not an illogical problem at all whatsoever

      Because it’s not like a character got their most iconic ability from that game, right? And it’s not like any recurring characters actually debuted in that, right? I mean Bomb-Ombs? Shy Guys? Ninjis? What are those?

      What's your point, they're canon because they still appeared afterwards in real stories. Wart's complete further absence proves the game events itself are fictional

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    • Ayewale wrote: Oh my goodness this thread has gone off-track. I don't think we're here to talk about Mewtwo constantly, and that's like the only thing I've seen mentioned i.e. (if x exists, why doesn't y?). I think it's gotten a bit old.

      On another note, there's also the contents of the original post:

      Is this fine?

      I mean, we've moved onto this because the OP's been rendered redundant since Mewtwo's page was deleted. We can't just downgrade it to 9-B now, we'd have to restore the page as well.

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    • Agnaa wrote: And the Mewtwo from Detective Pikachu has far weaker feats than our normal Mewtwo profile. Should that profile be restored?

      Neither Mewtwo nor Pikachu have anything implying they're below the average for their species. If anything, Pikachu's profile should go to given there's nothing about it that makes it different from the average Pikachu in terms of power.

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    • Jasonsith wrote: Well using the example from The Joker (Arthur Fleck), because Detective Pikachu is significantly weaker than the standard wild Lv 100 Pikachu and the Pikachu (Anime) that Ash raised and is one interpretation of the Pikachu in the Pokemon omniverse, he deserves a profile of himself.

      By that logic, every single trained Pikachu should have a profile too. And Arthur is completely different from all other Jokers, so that's besides the point.

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    • Ionliosite wrote:

      Jasonsith wrote:
      truncated

      By that logic, every single trained Pikachu should have a profile too. And Arthur is completely different from all other Jokers, so that's besides the point.

      They should. If people can have the patience to make such.

      (Oh my there are a lot of other characters who should have a profile here but they just do not because no people have the love and time to create such.)

      The problem is the profiles are created by real people among whom may not make profiles in 100% accordance with our site rules, and real people like us all have a day job (studying or working whatever).

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    • I think it's asking a whole fucking lot of people to start harrassing the site for not adding the profiles for every single trained pikachu, most of which will most likely end up with generic ratings scaling from some other mon.

      Yah, screw off a bit.

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    • Ayewale wrote:
      ditto

      Pikachu is not the only character suffering from this issue. Your concern is being raised when people have argued for deleting/allowing composite characters here.

      To simplify (for me): treat Detective Pikachu like Arthur Fleck, or treat him like composite Godzilla?

      Ya talk to you more - I need to go to work now, IRL.

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    • @Ayewale No-one's harassing the site though.

      @Jasonsith There's big differences between Detective Pikachu, Arthur Fleck, and Composite Godzilla though, your analogies aren't useful.

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    • So when are we deleting the Detective Pikachu profile?

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    • Well the current profile of a Pokemon species suggests a wild Lv 100 unit of a species, with optimal skills for fighting that can be acquired by itself.

      The Detective Pikachu raised by Harry and Tim Goodman is much weaker and has some personalities. It pretty much serves as a character of its own. I am still of my opinion that the profile of this DP should stay.

      If a sudden appearance of profiles of multiple Pikachus raised by different trainers is your only concern, then I can say most people are smart enough to know which characters are notable enough to create a separate profile. We should be more worried why some other notable characters do not have a profile here yet.

      Any normie could easily differentiate among a wild Pikachu, Ash's Pikachu and Detective Pikachu.

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    • Bump

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    • So yeah, delete the Dective Pikachu profile.

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    • Ask them to do so in the profile deletion thread.

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    • That's pretty much the point of the this thread tho.

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    • Yeah, just go that other thread and link them this thread so the mods can do so.

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    • There's still a disagreement here tho, we can't delete it yet.

      I don't really care either way, but no broad consensus has been reached.

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    • Dude, read this thread on its entirity, you'll see why it's being done on this thread rather than that one.

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    • I'm saying to go post it on the other thread so more mods can actually help out.

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    • We don't really need more mobs, Kukui's argument is basically enough of a reason to delete the profile.

      ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Ionliosite wrote:
      Actually, why do we have the Detective Pikachu page? Shouldn't it just scale to all other Pikachu?

      Can't believe I didn't mention this before either. 

      Pikachu should be the same as Mewtwo, so IDEK why we even need a Detective Pikachu page. It's not a special pikachu, just a regular pikachu given Harry's soul but then becomes a regular pikachu again at the end of the movie. 

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    • Mod input is definitely necessary.

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    • Well Jason and Cal disagree.

      So Kukui and Ion agreeing isn't enough for deletion.

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    • Elizhaa already deleted Mewtwo's profile. Pikachu has the exact same problem. Thus, Pikachu must go too. This isn't hard to see.

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    • Agnaa wrote:

      So Kukui and Ion agreeing isn't enough for deletion.

      Elizhaa was the one who deleted Mewtwo's profile.

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    • Because Elizhaa was asked to. Elizhaa didn't contribute to this thread.

      Please do not turn this into a fucking 30-post long argument about whether we should continue arguing. If you think you're so right, go to the deletions thread and argue there.

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    • Fine, but it's literally the same as the thread, so I don't really see the need to use another thread.

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    • Because this thread is for discussing whether it should be deleted or not.

      The profile deletions thread is for posting profiles that are ready to be deleted.

      If you think it's ready to be deleted and no discussion is necessary, the profile deletions thread is where you go.

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    • Idk whats going on here currently, but im just going to reiterate what I said before and agree with Cal.

      The movie, again, has been blatantly confirmed to be canon to the multiverse by the creators of it. It's not a seperate continuity. So just like Mewtwo, the Pikachu page also needs to be deleted and have whatever new stuff he has added onto the Pikachu page (not Ash). 

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    • Our page about Canon wrote:

      The key issue overall is notability/relevance. If a spin-off version of a character is very popular, prominent, and distinctive from the original, with a sufficient number of feats or descriptions to scale from, it can generally be featured.

      However, if it is obscure, does not have enough of a distinctive story to even qualify as a separate character (such as if it originates within a fighting game), and very limited information to scale the statistics from, it should likely not be featured.

      I think Detective Pikachu is popular, prominent, and distinctive enough from a typical wild Pikachu or the Pikachu (Anime) we see within the adventures of Ash Ketchum. So the profile should stay.

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    • What Jason said

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    • But it ISN'T distinctive enough, it's literally just a regular Pikachu. I could also argue prominency given it only appears on a single movie (which reminds I need to make the thread to delete Pokémon 7 Lucario), and don't get started on "popularity".

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    • Honestly, Detective Pikachu is pretty much like Ash's Pikachu but not actually trained. Both are MC pokemon but one actually goes through battles on a consistent basis.

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    • Ash's Pikachu has actual differences between it and a normal Pikachu, such being able to do things that are literally impossible for others (Thunder Armor, for example), have way higher feats, and has an alternate form where he controls a legendary.

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    • Detective Pikachu is literally just Pikachu but with a human soul inside it, allowing it to talk. But even by the end of the movie, he's just a normal Pikachu again.

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    • Bowser-us
      Bowser-us removed this reply because:
      nah
      04:37, January 20, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • DatOneWeeb wrote: Detective Pikachu is literally just Pikachu but with a human soul inside it, allowing it to talk. But even by the end of the movie, he's just a normal Pikachu again.

      Yeah, basically, it's really no different than any other Pikachu.

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    • but this Pikachu was able to slightly hurt Mewtwo. Maybe  pis

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    • So you said we should scale this Pikachu to 5-B? That doesn't seem consistent, nothing else on the movie on Mewtwo's league.

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    • So does anyone have any counter argument to Kukui's points for the profile being deleted?

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    • He is too unique as a character.

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    • How is he unique?

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    • He is a major protagonist who is a seperate individual from other major pikachus, while also having a human mind that grants intellegence unlike other pikachus

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    • I can list you like 3 Pikachu just off the top of my head who are also major protagonist and separate individuals who don't have their own profiles.

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    • That's more because people decided to not make them profiles than any other reason. Sparky and Pika can quite easily have profiles.

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    • Isn't Sparky Ritchie's Pikachu? The dude that appears for like 5 episodes before never being seen again?

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    • Well, less Sparky and more Ritchie can have a profile.

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    • Cropfist wrote:
      He is a major protagonist who is a seperate individual from other major pikachus, while also having a human mind that grants intellegence unlike other pikachus

      A mind that literally goes away by the end. This Pikachu is only special when Harry's soul is placed inside it by Mewtwo and by the end of the movie, Harry and Pikachu are re-separated. There's nothing unique about this Pikachu other than temporary human mind status.

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    • The page's character is not his pikachu originally owning the body, it's harry who was in the body way more than long enough to be unique.

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    • Even if you want to go that route, Harry being in Pikachu's body still doesn't make it any stronger than the level of regular pikachu. 

      The only feat Harrychu has that makes it better is fighting Mewtwo, and thats an obvious outlier.

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    • And?

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    • Unless you seriously want to scale Detective Pikachu to Mewtwo, he's literally just your regular Pikachu.

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    • Except for that he's not.

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    • Yes he is. The only difference was his personality and the fact that he can talk. Other than that, he still has similar abilities to Pikachu. Which doesn't matter anymore because the soul gets removed towards the end of the movie and he's back to being a normal Pikachu.

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    • DatOneWeeb wrote: Yes he is. The only difference was his personality and the fact that he can talk. Other than that, he still has similar abilities to Pikachu. Which doesn't matter anymore because the soul gets removed towards the end of the movie and he's back to being a normal Pikachu.

      Just to clarify (even though I agree with deleting the page), we don't necessarily tier characters by what they are at the end of the story. The fact that it turns into a normal Pikachu at the end doesn't matter, we're cataloguing the detective version.

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    • Agnaa wrote: Just to clarify (even though I agree with deleting the page), we don't necessarily tier characters by what they are at the end of the story. The fact that it turns into a normal Pikachu at the end doesn't matter, we're cataloguing the detective version.

      I mean... Technically they're both the detective version.

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    • The real cal howard
      The real cal howard removed this reply because:
      09:30, January 24, 2020
      This reply has been removed
    • And remember: not all trainers train their Pokemon at their peak conditions, i.e. while true the strongest wild Pikachu (fed to Lv 100 with Rare Candy) IS 8-A and Ash's Pikachu is at least 7-A, not every Pikachu are. Most of them are not. And the one raised by Harry and Tim Goodman and at some point has Harry's soul merged to it is performing differently from the other Pikachu. And they are notably and relevantly different.

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    • Jason, this Pikachu defeated a Charizard (which may or not be an outlier anyway), so he's clearly not leagues below your regular Pikachu.

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    • DatOneWeeb wrote:
      Yes he is. The only difference was his personality and the fact that he can talk. Other than that, he still has similar abilities to Pikachu. Which doesn't matter anymore because the soul gets removed towards the end of the movie and he's back to being a normal Pikachu.

      What doesn't matter is that he loses it at the end. Character changes at the end of a story are not retcons. He does not have a massively similar moveset to other pikachus.

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    • He didn't know how to use his powers, but as shown at the end of the movie, he still had them.

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    • Crop, no move this Pikachu has is unique to it. They are just regular moves any Pikachu can learn, not Thunder Armor. So saying that he "does not have a massively similar moveset to other pikachus" doesn't matter either.

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    • Man I really do gotta repeat myself.

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    • It matters a lot that his movepool, bigger or smaller, is a moveset combination only he has.

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    • Of which Pikachu can learn every single one of the moves. Been a while since I saw the movie, but as far as I recall... Quick Attack, Volt Tackle, Electro Ball, and implied Thunderbolt.

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    • Thunderbolt, Electro Ball and Volt Tackle are the 3 moves listed on his profile. This is something literally any Pikachu can have, and it toally isn't only his.

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    • Technically, Volt Tackle isn't that common a move. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Volt_Tackle_(move)#Learnset

      From Emerald onwards, a Pichu where either parent held a Light Ball will know Volt Tackle. In Generation 7, move tutors are needed for it. Otherwise, it's the move of a gift Pikachu in Pokemon Battle Revolution, via the Pokewalker, or an Event Move.

      So yes, there could be any number of Pikachu that know Volt Tackle, but I'm not sure what circumstances easiest allow the Pikachu Harry was in the body of to know Volt Tackle.

      Presumably, it'd have to be a Pikachu born as a Pichu, born to parents where one held a Light Ball.

      And there may not be many ways to relearn it if it's forgotten after being born with it.

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    • A lot of that is not really important, since any number of Pikachu can have Volt Tackle and we've seen quite a few of them across media beyond just Ash. Volt Tackle may be uncommon, but it's still a regular move a Pikachu can have.

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    • I mean, I suppose in theory, it's possible all of those Pikachu, the one Harry entered the body of, knew Volt Tackle as a result of one of a parent Pikachu (Or Raichu) holding a Light Ball, given wild Pikachu can have an LB as a held item. (Or found a tutor or something.)

      I'm not sure how many individuals in media other than the games have how they had Volt Tackle be made evident to the audience, but I suppose there's at least one plausible way for all individuals without a specified explanation.

      (How Harry remembered the move, I don't know. I would've thought he wouldn't know how, due to being an amnesiac. Unless he found the Detective Pikachu setting's equivalent of a tutor or a move relearner that works for a move first learned at birth, in an evolution prior to what the Pokemon was when Harry entered its body.)

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    • Not to mention, Harry's not even a trainer. Least not anymore. His main stichk in the story is being a detective instead of a battler, so we don't have anything that even suggests his pikachu is even a well trained one in the first place. 

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    • Except he battled Sebastian's Charizard, who IS a frequent battler, and won prior to the events of the story.

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    • So you say the Detective Pikachu should be scaled to that Charizard?

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    • To be fair, he probably won via type advantage.

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      So you say the Detective Pikachu should be scaled to that Charizard?

      Oh yes. In the movie Detective Pikachu only couldn't hurt him because he couldn't use any moves at the time.

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    • We should also make a Game Detective Pikachu profile too.

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    • Super Ascended Sean Pazdera wrote:

      Ionliosite wrote:
      So you say the Detective Pikachu should be scaled to that Charizard?

      Oh yes. In the movie Detective Pikachu only couldn't hurt him because he couldn't use any moves at the time.

      So your solution to this issue is scaling Pikachu to 7-A for fighting a Charizard. Got it.

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    • > THAT Charizard

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    • Ok, so, literally what I said. Charizard is 7-A in case you missed it.

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    • Sebastian's is not.

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    • Why? It's a Charizard, Charizard is 7-A by default unless it has higher feats on a consistent basis.

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    • If that were the case in the Detective Pikachu universe, Pikachu wouldn't have been put at Wall Level in the first place.

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    • Which is why I'm saying the profile is absolutely wrong, since a Pikachu can't possibly be Wall level, that's below even a Pichu.

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    • So you WANTED me to say he's 7-A?

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    • No, I don't want you to say. It's just that you say he scales to a Charizard, and Charizards are 7-A.

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    • A FANDOM user
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