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  • Zark2099
    Zark2099 closed this thread because:
    Completed
    02:31, November 24, 2019
    • bump

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    • What can Deku do against Spidey?

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      What can Deku against Spidey?

      i assume you mean what can Deku do to/against spidey? if so, he has air bullets, iron soles, black whip, and he can just kick and punch.

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    • I mean, it would be difficult for Deku to even touch him due to that precog.

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    • i agree his spidey-sense does make it more difficult but with speed equalized i dont believe it would be impossible. aswell as his spidey sense isnt flawless hes been caught off gaurd before, in homecoming, shocker, vulture and iron man suprised him, in infinity war thanos and quill suprised him and in endgames final fight he got hit and caught of gaurd a lot while carrying the gauntlet so it is by no means impossible to hit him.

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    • I'm pretty sure speed equal would make it easier for Spider-Man to dodge.

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    • well no if speed was unequal spidey would blitz.

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    • Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.

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    • Kappatalism wrote:
      Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.

      try rereading the last line of the op.

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    • Except that his senses should work better in speed equal?

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    • Peter Tingle GG, plus more experience, and there’s no way he’s escaping Peter’s web.

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    • ok, so any actual votes?

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    • I voted Peter.

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    • ok, counted.

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    • Spider-Man FRA

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    • So, does "Speed Equalized" imply that Deku doesn't get any speed boosts from Full Cowling?

      By that I mean, would he be the same speed at 5% as without OFA?

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    • Ionliosite your vote is counted, and 8r34kn3ck this is what the rules have to say about that:

      • During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character.
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    • So, this would mean that base Deku (without the use of OFA) is at the same speed of Spider-Man.

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    • 8r34kn3ck wrote:
      So, this would mean that base Deku (without the use of OFA) is at the same speed of Spider-Man.

      No, it means 20% Deku is at the same speed of the Iron Spider.

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    • the way i see it is: with speed equalized base deku is on spidermans level (speed wise) but cant get much faster than that no matter what percent OFA hes using. that might be wrong but that is how i interpret it.

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    • Peter’s senses don’t work any better in equal speed than they do normally iirc. Vs Vulture, Captain America, Starlord to an extent, and Mysterio’s illusions, the Peter Tingle doesn’t activate in a way that makes it overtly useful for direct combat outside of alerting him of sneak attacks, and even then it’s not guaranteed. The best showing for it he’s had was when he was actively focusing solely on it, which isn’t in character for him considering the circumstances he was under. Also, the spider sense can be overwhelmed, especially by multiple attacks.

      Deku has shockwaves with his WHOLE body in this key btw, not just his fingers, and since staying at 20% hurts him, he’s going to end this fight as fast as possible. He also has an AP (I believe) and experience advantage over Peter, as he’s fought and learned more from villains and heroes than Peter has. It would only take him a few moments to know Peter’s movepool, and then devise a way to counter. Not to mention he’s had experience with people that fight similarly to Spider Man, like Shinso and his classmate Sero. Peter would have to restrain Deku with webs before Deku gets near him to win this cleanly, which is going to be rough considering Deku isn’t just going to stand still, and can disrupt the webs with shockwaves. He could honestly just grab the webs and pull Spider Man considering his physical LS is way higher.

      Will wait for further input.

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    • bump

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    • Bob899999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 wrote:
      Kappatalism wrote:
      Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.
      try rereading the last line of the op.

      tie/incon:

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    • Kingofwolves999 wrote:
      Peter’s senses don’t work any better in equal speed than they do normally iirc. Vs Vulture, Captain America, Starlord to an extent, and Mysterio’s illusions, the Peter Tingle doesn’t activate in a way that makes it overtly useful for direct combat outside of alerting him of sneak attacks, and even then it’s not guaranteed. The best showing for it he’s had was when he was actively focusing solely on it, which isn’t in character for him considering the circumstances he was under. Also, the spider sense can be overwhelmed, especially by multiple attacks.

      Deku has shockwaves with his WHOLE body in this key btw, not just his fingers, and since staying at 20% hurts him, he’s going to end this fight as fast as possible. He also has an AP (I believe) and experience advantage over Peter, as he’s fought and learned more from villains and heroes than Peter has. It would only take him a few moments to know Peter’s movepool, and then devise a way to counter. Not to mention he’s had experience with people that fight similarly to Spider Man, like Shinso and his classmate Sero. Peter would have to restrain Deku with webs before Deku gets near him to win this cleanly, which is going to be rough considering Deku isn’t just going to stand still, and can disrupt the webs with shockwaves. He could honestly just grab the webs and pull Spider Man considering his physical LS is way higher.

      Will wait for further input.

      We know that the webs do not have the same durability, and what is stopping the shockwaves from turning them back onto peter?

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    • Kappatalism wrote:
      Bob899999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 wrote:
      Kappatalism wrote:
      Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.
      try rereading the last line of the op.
      tie/incon:

      vote counted.

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    • Hey Kappa, haven’t seen you since Seth’s 1st server imploded.

      Also, Deku turning Peter’s webs against him is a great point. Tying Spider-Man up in webs above his LS is an easy way to incapacitate him, and doing so wouldn’t be a difficult strategy for Deku to figure out. Honestly, if Deku works fast enough, he should have this fight in the bag.

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    • Deku FRA

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    • counted.

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    • Bloodlust is automatic for vs threads right? 

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    • No

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    • bump

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    • Kingofwolves999 wrote:
      Hey Kappa, haven’t seen you since Seth’s 1st server imploded.

      Also, Deku turning Peter’s webs against him is a great point. Tying Spider-Man up in webs above his LS is an easy way to incapacitate him, and doing so wouldn’t be a difficult strategy for Deku to figure out. Honestly, if Deku works fast enough, he should have this fight in the bag.

      deku has feats of deducing things quickly, like figuring out Mirio's quirk by seeing it one time. Idk why deku has aboe avg intellect and parker has genius. deku has better problem solving feats.

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    • How does Deku counter Instant Kill mode and Peter Tingle? Shockwaves are cool and all, but the opponent can literally predict your every move, so he'll be long gone before you even connect the hit, not to mention the insane amounts of attack speeds Deku will have to counter with the instant kill. Also, Peter has more than 5 years on the job as well by Far From Home, so he isn't like, absolutely moronic when it comes to fighting, hence I find it super hard to believe that Deku can pull off anything before Pete overwhelms him.

      Anyhow, isn't Deku's high 8-C impractical in combat?

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    • This battle is for incapacitation only, and Peter doesn’t use instakill in character. Speed is equalized so the attack speed of the extra arms is irrelevant, and Deku has dodged things similar to them before, like Overhaul’s spikes and all those balls during the provisional license exam.

      The Peter Tingle was already addressed in previous posts.

      Peter doesn’t have 5 years of experience, he was snapped out of existence for that entire time. He only has the experience he’s shown on screen and a bit before Iron Man found him.

      Deku at 20% is imparactical in that it strains his body, hence why he’s going to rush through this fight and attempt to incapacitate Peter as fast as he can. It is very much battle capable.

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    • The AP difference and the fact that spiderman does not react well to taking lots of damage, IE, thanos hitting him puts him down for a while. Durability-wise his suits won't protect him from the shock waves generated at each punch at 20%. He will get rattled from the inside out, since the shockwaves are larger than what he can dodge, being equal speed. Deku has been studying heros and their fighting styles for 10 years, indicated him being an all might finatic and hero finatic as a young child. There are people with similar fighting styles and similar quirks in the My Hero verse. Deku has the AP, Stamina, Durability, and experience advantage. Also, deku can fight while incapacitated. With his arms shattered, he can use OFA still and attack with his shoot style. During the training arc, chapter 70-90ish, he fought muscular with broken limbs.

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    • also, why am I at a tie/incon? Its obviously deku

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    • Also, in the MCU, peter's tingle isn't "precog" in so far as it lets him know when he isn't looking in the right direction.

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    • I’m also going for Deku

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    • Kappatalism wrote:
      Bob899999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 wrote:
      Kappatalism wrote:
      Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.
      try rereading the last line of the op.
      tie/incon:

      i took that as a tie/incon vote. but i will change it.

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    • ok, votes updated.

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    • Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff wrote:
      Bloodlust is automatic for vs threads right? 

      in character, willing to kill. but this is to incap. Deku has training to incap, being in his 2nd year of pro hero school. He also has tons of experience over spooderman

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    • bump

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    • Deku FRA 

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    • counted

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    • given that they start at spidey range of hundreds of meters( iirc sba right) , i think spidey take this easily .

      spidey have a tendency to hold back and especially in this case because deku is a kid but i think he would incapp with web way before deku can even reach him , let alone hit him.

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    • this might be dumb and redundant but just to be safe, is that a vote for spidey?

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    • yrs , sorry , if i wasn't clear, i vote for spidey

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    • I don’t get the reasoning here. Because Spidey has more range with webs he wins easily? Did you ignore the rest of the thread? Deku disrupts the webs with shockwaves, dodges them, and uses them against Spider-Man himself to incapacitate him. Peter also fights in close combat, and it’s not like he knows how Deku fights, so why would he just hang back and spam webs, especially if they’re not effective? Also, do you think Deku is just going to stand still while Peter shoots webs at him? He has enough mobility to close that gap without getting webbed, and keep up with Spider-Man should he try to widen it.

      Also, you didn’t even address all the other numerous reasons me and Kappa gave for why Deku takes this, how does starting range alone equate to a win, let alone an easy one?

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    • Is Deku able to use Detroit Smash shockwaves without breaking his fingers? If he isn’t then Spidey can just Spider Sense then and dodge them.

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    • Uhh

      Spiderman one shots Deku due to his durability?

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    • ChocomilkAlex wrote: Is Deku able to use Detroit Smash shockwaves without breaking his fingers? If he isn’t then Spidey can just Spider Sense then and dodge them.

      Yes, his standard equiptment includes his concussive gloves which remove the damage to his handa

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      Uhh

      Spiderman one shots Deku due to his durability?

      please forgive my ignorance but is the difference between "High 8-C" and "at least High 8-C" is that huge ?

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    • Depends

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    • Naeblis495 wrote:
      yrs , sorry , if i wasn't clear, i vote for spidey

      ok, sorry i took a while, but counted. and or future refrence (this is dierected to everyone.) please make your votes very clear, sorry for any inconvenience.

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    • Spiderman FRA

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    • counted

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    • Naeblis495 wrote:

      Schnee One wrote:
      Uhh

      Spiderman one shots Deku due to his durability?

      please forgive my ignorance but is the difference between "High 8-C" and "at least High 8-C" is that huge ?

      No, you're not wrong, it's just Deku has 8C Durability

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    • Schnee One wrote:

      Naeblis495 wrote:

      Schnee One wrote:
      Uhh

      Spiderman one shots Deku due to his durability?

      please forgive my ignorance but is the difference between "High 8-C" and "at least High 8-C" is that huge ?
      No it's just

      Deku has 8C Durability

      ho... well then i guess spidey do one shot .

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    • Excuse me? Deku has High 8-C durability at 20%, did you read his profile?

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    • Yeah his physical Dura does not scale to High 8C in 20%

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    • Schnee One wrote: Yeah his physical Dura does not scale to High 8C in 20%

      We specified earlier in the thread that parker does not have the iron spider suit.

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    • Bob899999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 wrote: (speed equalized, 20% midorya, iron spider spiderman.)

      Are you sure?

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    • ? Yes it does? It says so right on his profile? Why on earth would it not scale? There was a whole thread on how increasing his percentage of One For All DOES make his durability higher. There’s even reasoning for it with his arm being able to survive the clash with Muscular, who is 8-B.

      What is your reasoning for it not?

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    • My reasoning is anything that isn't 20% means Izuku gets hit once and Spidey calls it a day, Izuku cannot stay in 20% forever, and he's nowhere near as agile as Spidey.

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    • Kappatalism wrote:
      Bob899999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 wrote:
      Kappatalism wrote:
      Since you didnt specify the iron spider suit, which he does not normally go around in, Deku has the AP advantage and can AOE spam like he did against the Gentle Villian. With Equal speed, spiderman cannot dodge that large of a blast when he is close range. Precog won't help when they are close quarters and equal speed. Deku also has more fighting experience as he goes to school for being a hero and close quarters combat with specialists. Peter just has his senses which won't help in equal speed.
      try rereading the last line of the op.
      tie/incon:

      im an idiot, when i posted the ¨try rereading the last line of the op.¨ thing the last line of the op was: ¨(speed equalized, 20% midorya, iron spider spiderman.)¨ but then i edited it because i forgot the votes. so just to clarify this is iron spider suit spidey.  that is entirley on me and i apologise for any confusion.

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    • Schnee One wrote: My reasoning is anything that isn't 20% means Izuku gets hit once and Spidey calls it a day, Izuku cannot stay in 20% forever, and he's nowhere near as agile as Spidey.

      Hes fought someone who can move like spiderman and had matter/wtomic manip on top of that. Mido can stay isolate parta of his body to take anything peter can hit him with. Spider gets negged by shockwaves. Peter cant come close anyway. Since its speed equalized, and peters body is much smaller than the shockwaves deku makes, its cery heavily in midos favor. He can sit still and fire these off with a greatwr range than spooderman can hit him with damage woise.

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    • Who? Gentle Criminal? The guy who Spiderman is wat stronger then?

      The Shockwaves being large makes them predicable and dodgeable, plus Shockwaves don't do much damage anyway so they hardly matter.

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    • Schnee One wrote: Who? Gentle Criminal? The guy who Spiderman is wat stronger then?

      The Shockwaves being large makes them predicable and dodgeable, plus Shockwaves don't do much damage anyway so they hardly matter.

      His shockwaves have similar/equal damage to his striking ability. Also, peters durability feat with thanos was not a striking feat. He just pushed him on the ground and ignored him. Where is the feat of him taking a missle? His shockwaves are larger than peters body, so at close range he cannot dodge them.

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    • Yes, Deku is as agile as Spider-Man, and nothing Peter has is new to him enough to make a difference. Earlier in this thread, we mentioned Sero, Deku’s classmate, who uses movement exactly like Spider-Man, and Deku completely outclassed him in agility. Not to mention Deku has several feats of agility and mobility that definitely put him on the same playing field as Spidey, especially the MCU version that doesn’t have nearly as much experience fighting super powered beings as most other Spider-Men do.

      What can Spidey do that keeps Deku off of him, honestly? Webs argument has been addressed, speed is equal, and both of these characters use buildings to their advantage when it comes to mobility. Deku literally ping pongs off buildings, and can think up entire plans in between jumps, while also using air bullets, but you’re saying Spider-Man would be able to play keep away long enough to time him out? Especially when he’s going to be rushing to finish this because he’s at 20%? I don’t see it. If anything, Spider-Man getting away from Deku just gives him time to recuperate and use 20% for even longer, and Deku could fight for hours many arcs ago.

      Also, what is Spider-Man’s AP? The only potency listed is that his suit should output more energy than 10 Giga joules, but I’m having a hard time translating it into terms of Deku’s Dura which, at 8%, would be much higher than 1.28 tons of tnt. Would appreciate clarification on that, as your argument of Spidey one shotting Deku depends on you proving the 7.5x gap needed to one shot.

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    • Also, the Gentle Criminal being weaker than Spider-Man is irrelevant, as your point is that he outpaces and outmaneuvers Deku. If the Gentle Criminal has comparable mobility to Spider-Man, but Deku could keep up with and overcome it, even using his own power against him, than Kappa’s argument is very valid.

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    • I was referring to both overhaul and gentle criminal.

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    • bump

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    • My vote goes to Deku because Spider-Man was kicked out of the MCU. 

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    • im not sure if i can count that as a vote due to that not acually being a legitamate argument.

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    • it’s funny tho

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    • The year is 3476. All human life has been extinguished, cats run the world, Waluigi is in smash bros, and One Piece is finally ending.

      But this thread is still being bumped.

      If any spidey fans would like to argue against my points on why Deku wins, please rise up.

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    • i just need three more votes, an admin to unlock spidey and this can be added.

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    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die
      I'm Blue daba dee daba die removed this reply because:
      Bumping a dead thread
      03:18, November 18, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Deku FRA

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    • counted.

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    • Deku FRA he’s got a pretty hefty AP and Dura advantage at 20%

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    • counted.

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    • @Bob you forgot to change the vote count it still says 4 for Deku

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    • Spiderman FRAs.

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    • I'm voting Spiderman.

      Far more agile than Izuku and he can't be in 20% forever

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    • He isn’t far more agile and Deku doesn’t even need 20% to survive hits from him he’d likely shrug off Spider-Man’s blows

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    • MCU Web Slinger FRA.

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    • Deku is more experienced than Spider-Man and has formal training, Deku could potentially oneshot Spider-Man if his claim of oneshotting Overhaul is to be taken seriously, his movements will repel Spider-Man’s webs and Deku has better analytical abilities he’d pick Spider-Man apart pretty quick

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    • One for all fra

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    • There's the spider sense, there's the overall experience, there's the agility and mobility, there's the whole Kill mode deal, plus the fact Deku can't stay like that for long. 

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    • Spidey has experience fighting far greater threats than deku like Thanos (sure he is the weakest Tier 6 on the site, but he is greater than anything in MHA) and dodging point blank danmaku missles.

      He is definately more experienced than Izuku

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    • Insert creative name here 12 wrote:
      He isn’t far more agile and Deku doesn’t even need 20% to survive hits from him he’d likely shrug off Spider-Man’s blows

      Except he is. He can web sling, he can wall crawl, he's not much different from Deku in the jumping department and all the while he's way more acrobatically skilled. Saying he's not more agile is lying so bad is embarrassing. And unless you have AP values to prove it, no, he won't shrug his hits off.

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    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote: Spidey has experience fighting far greater threats than deku like Thanos (sure he is the weakest Tier 6 on the site, but he is greater than anything in MHA) and dodging point blank danmaku missles.

      He is definately more experienced than Izuku

      >Weakest tier 6 on site.

      >Stomps other tier 6-Cs in-universe.

      Yeah, sure, buddy.

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    • The MCU in general are the weakest Tier 6's on the site. 

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    • He doesn’t rely on spider sense in character and it’s inconsistent

      He isn’t more experienced he’s had a couple months plus his on screen adventures vs Deku’s almost a year of training and fighting

      Kill mode isn’t something he uses vs people he’s trying to incap

      Again if Deku drops from 20% he can still sustain 8% and fight

      Spider-Man dodging attacks doesn’t mean he’s more experienced, Deku dodged Overhaul at 20% and he was in continuous pain while his environment was shifting around him, Deku has also taken on more varied opponents some include Overhual who was far more experienced and spammed range, Gentle who was stronger than Deku, Bakugo who was also more experienced along with possessing flight etc

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    • I have to wonder how many of the characters on Tier 6 you know at all, Blue. 

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    • 8% Deku is 3.19 tons, 20% started he could oneshot Overhaul who is above 3.19 tons and his durability scales to his AP Spider-Man is vaguely above 2.39 tons

      Deku is just as agile web slinging let’s move in different ways but it doesn’t improve his agility not to mention Deku has pseudo flight with his wind pressure

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    • Insert creative name here 12 wrote: He doesn’t rely on spider sense in character and it’s inconsistent

      He isn’t more experienced he’s had a couple months plus his on screen adventures vs Deku’s almost a year of training and fighting

      Kill mode isn’t something he uses vs people he’s trying to incap

      Again if Deku drops from 20% he can still sustain 8% and fight

      Spider-Man dodging attacks doesn’t mean he’s more experienced, Deku dodged Overhaul at 20% and he was in continuous pain while his environment was shifting around him, Deku has also taken on more varied opponents some include Overhual who was far more experienced and spammed range, Gentle who was stronger than Deku, Bakugo who was also more experienced along with possessing flight etc

      1. Post Far From Home ge both relies on it and has it operate consistency, much like how Deku gets better at One For All as the series progresses.

      2. I'm pretty sure Mysterio alone is far more dangerous than anyone Deku has fought.

      3. Deku's pseudo flight is less percise and could potentially hurt him if he puts to much force into it. Spider-man can move in ways that Deku flat out can't and has far more control.

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    • LSirLancelotDuLacl wrote:
      I have to wonder how many of the characters on Tier 6 you know at all, Blue. 

      All the ones I know destroy Thanos for breakfast.

      Tier 6 Thanos has literally no hax at all. He is just an overglorified 9-B

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    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote:

      LSirLancelotDuLacl wrote:
      I have to wonder how many of the characters on Tier 6 you know at all, Blue. 

      All the ones I know destroy Thanos for breakfast.

      Between this abd the "weakest characters for every tier" list, you really seem to hate Thanos.

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    • You can't even give an argument how that MCU Thanos isn't one of the weakest in Tier 6.

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    • 1. Based on what? He relied on it vs Mysterio because it was all he could do even then it seems to just alert him to surprise attacks

      2. And? Deku has still taken on a wider variety of foes along with being in more fights, having formal training and having more experience since Spidey has only had a couple months and his movie showings vs Deku’s training and fighting for about a full year

      3. We’ve seen Deku knows how to boost himself withit and his control of 20% isn’t so bad that he’d hurt himself now the dude has been practicing mental multi tasking and has shown clear growth in it he even has black whip now

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    • Whatever, different thread. Get back on topic.

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    • 1. No, he used his spider-sense to dodge point blank drone strikes from Mysterio. He also used it to realize something wrong is happening like when he was about to get dusted and when he realized aliens were invading New York

      2. Spider-Man has been doing spidey stuff for years, we have been shown just a few months. And no, he fought the Vulture, Cap, Bucky, Falcon, Giant-Man, Ebony Maw, Cull, Thanos, The elementals, and Mysterio. All of who have different fighting styles 

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    • Insert creative name here 12 wrote: 1. Based on what? He relied on it vs Mysterious because it was all he could do even then it seems to just alert him to surprise attacks

      2. And? Deku has still taken on a wider variety of foes along with being in more fights, having formal training and having more experience since Spidey has only had a couple months and his movie showings vs Deku’s training and fighting for about a full year

      3. We’ve seen Deku knows how to boost himself withit and his control of 20% isn’t so bad that he’d hurt himself now the dude has been practicing mental multi tasking and has shown clear growth in other even has black whip now

      1. Mysterio effectively forced him to master the power in order to do anything. Compare his showings from Homecoming vs his showings from Far From Home. He obviously improved.

      2. Spidey has beaten people with more experience who are more skilled than anyone Deku has dealt with. Winter Soldier, Falcon, and Mysterio are all far higher caliber opponents than Deku. Two of them had formal training and experience that vastly surpasses Deku's and they got borderline stomped.

      3. That doesn't change the fact that Web-Slinging just provides far more options than Deku's jumps do when it come to Aerial Control.

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    • Spider-Man FRA.

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    • 1. Again provide proof that he relies on spider sense now against Mysterio it was his only option and involved him blind folding himself and completely focusing on spider sense

      2. Winter Soldier and Falcon were far weaker than Peter and went into the fight not knowing anything about him while all he had to do was realise Bucky is strong and Falcon can fly, Mysterio uses drones and illusions I don’t think that compares to Matter Manipulation and geokinesis or intangibility that’s similar to teleportation

      3. Deku has pseudo flight as I’ve said and we’ve seen Deku utterly outclass someone who moves in a similar fashion to Spider-Man and he could even beat Gentle who could move through the air by bouncing on his barriers

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    • 1. The Mysterio fight is proof. If he just mastered a really good power, it would be completely out of character for him not to use it. Also, we're given plenty of proof that he can't exactly turn it iff either. Why would he use something that's passively active?

      2. Cap scales equally to Bucky though and he beat Peter. Skill still played a role, it's not like he AP stomped them. Also, people like Thanos and Obsidian exist. Peter's survived fights against tier 6 characters by not getting hit.

      3. Bouncing isn't Web-Slinging. Pseudo-flight isn't web-slinging. Spider-man stil has better air control. Not to mention he's beaten people with actual flight.

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    • And some of those people are actual flight masters

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    • i believe i've updated the votes, let me know if i messed anything up or missed anybody.

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    • 1. He still had to put all his focus on it to get it working in that manner so he gets warned about surprise attacks even if it were passive it doesn’t predict people’s exact actions

      2. Peter didn’t out skill Bucky at any point he caught his punch, threw something at him, then kicked and webbed him. He got tagged by Cull twice and got tagged by Thanos

      3. Never said any of what Deku does is web slinging even though he could likely replicate it, Spider-Man doesn’t have better air control vs someone who can ping pong off of objects, can fly and swing around

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    • Spider-Man FRA

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    • Spidey boi FRA

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    • That's Grace.

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    • counted and i believe grace begins now.

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    • 2. None if that required outskilling him how exactly? You have be pretty skilled to catch a punch. Plus, he was fighting two Captain America level people at once. Saying Peter's success was entirely because of him being stronger would be like saying the same thing about Deku. It completely ignores everything else about the fight. Weren't said tags just him getting thrown? They never directly managed to squash him or anything.

      3. Only, Peter can do all of those things with his own Web-Slinging and Acrobatics. Hell, just watch the fight at the end of Far From Home.

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    • Ok so

      Deku at 20% can fly, wall jump at high speeds and is compared to people that can actually fly, can swing around, has displayed greater skill in analysing his opponents and using that analysis to gain an edge, has formal training and can oneshot a character who is over 3.19 tons and somehow vaguely over 2.39 ton Spider-Man is winning

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    • Both are comparable to and have ways of effectively flying, Peter has powers Deku can't know about "Spider-Sense" and hence, can't analyze, and Peter hasn't beaten people both more trained and stronger than him.

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    • The Wright Way wrote: 2. None if that required outskilling him how exactly? You have be pretty skilled to catch a punch. Plus, he was fighting two Captain America level people at once. Saying Peter's success was entirely because of him being stronger would be like saying the same thing about Deku. It completely ignores everything else about the fight. Weren't said tags just him getting thrown? They never directly managed to squash him or anything.

      3. Only, Peter can do all of those things with his own Web-Slinging and Acrobatics. Hell, just watch the fight at the end of Far From Home.

      So peter caught a punch, threw something at him and kicked him the webbed him and that somehow relies on skill really? The fact that he got caught shows he couldn’t avoid them continuously Cull even caught him twice

      Deku has displayed acrobatic skill and is compared to Bakugo who can straight up fly you can just go check Deku vs Kacchan 2 to see Bakugo’s movements and Deku has improved beyond that

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    • Bruh. Spider-Man fought trained martial artists like Bucky Barnes and Captain America. He has plenty of skill, FFH proves it even further with plenty of acrobatics and martial arts against the elementals and Mysterio

      Look again, he fought cap

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    • 1. The fact that he managed to do any of that to a guy like Bucky at all? Yes. Yes, it does.

      2. And Spider-man is also comparable to people who can flat out fly. He's even fought hundreds of flying enemies at once before.

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    • Have you seen the ridiculous shit he had to avoid in Far From Home?

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    • 1. He caught Bucky’s punch that’s reaction time and strength, he threw something at Bucky that’s also reaction time and strength, he swung into Bucky and kicked him while he was running then webbed him while he was down. None of that is him out skilling Bucky and if he could out skill Bucky why did Cap kick his but so hard

      2. Drones that just fly and shoot and don’t pull off any acrobatic manoeuvres whatsoever

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    • All those Drones in that tiny ass corridor isn't impressive? He couldn't see or hear them, he only just figured out how to use the Spider-Sense.

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    • 1. While also fighting Falcon. The fight was a two on one and Peter won. That takes a certain level of skill.

      2. Drones that fly, shoot, create illusions, and swarm in droves of hundreds.

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    • Spider-Man’s method of agility and movement is nothing new to Deku, please take a look at Sero. I severely doubt he can catch him off guard or out perform him in any way mobility wise. Also don’t disregard Gentle Criminal. Gentle’s movement abilities outclass Peter’s by a long shot, they don’t need to be 1-1 in order to compare or judge which ones are better. Gentle could make precise movements and applications of his quirk such that he became completely untraceable, all at the drop of a hat, with ridiculously high battlefield control and precision, but Deku could predict and match him due to his high battle intelligence and analyzing. Spider-Man just web swinging towards Deku and jumping around is not enough to out maneuver him. Gentle could bounce off the air itself not just objects, his level of air control was insane.

      Deku himself has dodged literally dozens of projectiles while mid air with no footing easily (without precog to help him). He trickshot reversaled Shinsou in midair and tied him up in his own weapon like it was nothing, right after getting blasted in the face. He correctly memorized and used Gentle’s own air barriers against him by bouncing on, predicting, and abusing their positioning after only having fought Gentle for like 4 minutes.

      Deku’s air movement is comparable to Spider-Man’s at least, I would appreciate any evidence that it isn’t.

      8% Deku has an AP and dura advantage over spider man btw. 20% Deku is almost shrugging off Spidey’s blows, and if he runs out of 20%, his pain tolerance lets him keep fighting for hours on end, something Peter can’t keep up with.

      The best argument for Peter winning is the spider sense but he doesn’t rely on it as much as some people are claiming he does in actual combat. Against Mysterio, the circumstances were clearly very different than they would be in a 1v1 fight. Peter had to actively focus solely on his spider sense ability due to Mysterios trickery and illusions, I severely doubt he’s capable of insta predicting every single attack his opponent is capable of while they’re bouncing all over the place with as good agility as him. Maybe if he gets pushed into a corner in the fight he could replicate that same level of pre cog.

      The spider sense would need to consistently work perfectly basically every time Deku attacks in order for Peter to inflict any damage, and can we all not forget that’s Deku himself is an analysis based fighter? He would analyze Spider-Man’s entire move pool in the first minute of the fight, other than spidey sense, and come up with strategies to overcome him, it’s not like Deku is fresh off the block, he’s been fighting and figuring out super powered enemies for nearly a year straight.

      Spider sense is a win con, but it’s unreliable as hell unless Peter focuses hard, and even then he would have to beat Deku in the instance he does that otherwise he gets beat up the second he loses concentration. Deku can’t predict spider sense tho, so it is indeed a win condition.

      Spider man has not out skilled a single person that would be impressive compared to how Deku outskilled Gentle. He didn’t out skill Bucky or Cap or Falcon or Thanos or Cull, so don’t count them when thinking about that last statement I made. The best he’s done is catch people more skilled than him off guard with how annoying he can be to fight against first time. His best skill feats were with spidey sense again Mysterio, every other instance he’s fought a skilled fighter, they’re either hilariously weaker than him or surprised at his existence cutting into a fight they were having with someone else,

      Lmao at catching someone’s punch being a skill feat when it was incredibly telegraphed and Spidey had the drop on him and Falcon. Skill had no play in that confrontation, it was spider man tossing them around because he’s ridiculously stronger than both of them.

      > Falcon being captain America level in skill

      Deku has AP, Dura, Stamina, Combat Experience, and more reliable ranged attacks. At a cost, he’s in discomfort for being at 20%.

      Peter has Precognition, Intellect and isn’t in constant pain.

      How does he even start on beating Deku without spidey sense? Webs get dodged, airblasted or used against him, his attacks get dodged and countered, and he can’t play keep away forever against someone with comparable mobility. Spidey sense is literally his win condition, but it’s unpredictable and unreliable unless he focuses.

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    • No, much of the fight was Spidey out manuvering a double team of Bucky and Falcon, it wasn't based on skill besides the metal arm part

      Spidey outskilled Bucky, Giant Man, Vulture, and Falcon, the reason why he didn't to Thanos was because they are far stronger than him

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    • He did not outskills any of the people you just mentioned. He started the Bucky and Falcon fight literally drop kicking Falcon and then catching Bucky’s arm. He then proceeded to literally just toss the two of them around, easily handling all of their attacks, because nothing they could do would phase him. He’s stronger than them, not more skilled.

      Outskilling Giant Man is not a feat, the dude is like the easiest person to outskill in his giant form.

      Vulture beat the ever living daylights out of Spider-Man in every single confrontation they had.

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    • The Wright Way wrote: 1. While also fighting Falcon. The fight was a two on one and Peter won. That takes a certain level of skill.

      2. Drones that fly, shoot, create illusions, and swarm in droves of hundreds.

      Both of them are far below him and most of the fight was him jumping around and spamming webs

      Drones that weren’t creating illusions when he fought them on the bridge and didn’t even swarm from multiple directions they just chased him

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    • I just rewatched Spidey vs Bucky and Falcon.

      How on earth are you guys claiming that was skill.

      Falcon was kicking and tackling Peter all over the place the whole fight until he moved and webbed his pack. Bucky didn’t even do anything other than throw a punch and toss a sign.

      That wasn’t even Spidey over powering them for the most part, he just spammed webs, dodged like 2 attacks and they lost.

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    • @Knight that puts them in par in the air then. Spidey had to deal with thousands of fire shooting, illusion creating drones, in tight corriders even at one point.

      If Bucky was hilariously weaker, than Cap shouldn't have been able to hurt Spidey hardly at all. Spidey's feat over him is lifting strength based anyways.

      Here's the thing. When Deku starts bouncing around, why wouldn't Peter start to focus? Deku has no way of knowing Spider-Sense is even a thing, so he can't analyze and counter it.

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    • Yeah Bucky was hilariously weaker in lifting strength the inky way he attempted to contest Spider-Man up close.

      Why would Peter’s immediate reaction to seeing someone come at him to close his eyes and hyper focus on spider sense? Even then if his mobility is greater than Deku’s he’d still get caught as Cull a far less mobile opponent proved and Deku has proven he could do against Gentle

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    • Yes, being stronger than someone means your muscles automatically move out of the way of hits from someone comparable to you in speed and skilled enough to trash or match someone else also comparable in speed that is a complete melee skill combat monster.

      And Pete ended up more or less wrecking Vulture near the end when he properly got his confidence in. You fail to mention anything Deku could do comparable to easily side stepping and destroying multiple attacking, invisible drones in cloaked in hyper realistic illusions inside of a small corridor without any difficulty. So no, not convinced.

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    • Glad we can agree their mobility is at least equal.

      Peter dealt with 6 drones in that tight corridor max, don’t overplay how many drones he could keep up with. He was running for his life and getting shot up and down the street, don’t pretend Peter was doing perfectly fine against those drones.

      You’re right, Bucky didn’t even do enough to warrant Spidey being stronger than him. Threw a punch and tossed a sign.

      Peter would have to focus specifically on his spidey sense activating flawlessly, similarly to how he did against Mysterio, not just focus in general. Also he’d have to keep it up for a very long time. Deku having some fancy bouncing movement is not enough for Spidey to activate his “oh shit can’t keep up help me spider gods” mode, speed is equal, Peter can react, he just gets outskilled in cqc.

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    • Why would Peter need to close his eyes here? Were his eyes closed as he avoided Mysterio's last attempt at killing him, shooting himself instead?

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    • All of Peter’s good skill feats were with spider sense. He has no good feats that put him on par with Deku in terms of skill without that ability. So he loses unless he focuses, and even that isn’t a guaranteed win since he can’t do it forever.

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    • He wasn't really that focused when Mysterio tried to just shoot him with a handgun.

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    • Except, again, he really needed no focus, he just needed to trust it and not use his eyes. Again, he used it easily enough against Mysterio's last attack with eyes open.

      I call it Skill that Bucky couldn't do anything, when Cap obviously could when he had a chance despite Bucky being explicitly comparable in everything, besides being stronger with his metal arm.

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    • I know his spider sense doesn’t need to be focused, but that was literally the most basic application of it: helping him against stealth attacks. Deku is not going to stealth attack, so the most spider sense can help is letting him dodge some air blasts or kicks.

      Also, still a skill feat only for spider sense. Not seeing a lot of skill feats outside of this one ability that helps him keep up consistently with Deku for the hours they might be fighting for.

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    • Bucky threw one punch and then ran away. Spidey did not outskill him. Pls stop

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    • So Spider-Man can out skill a captain America level fighter who has help but gets bodied by Captain America? Ok

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    • That's so incredibly dumb I am dumb founded. Is not sneak attacks, is about evading attacks in general. Peter had trouble with the drones even with way bigger amounts of space before, the moment he uses spider sense he side steps them with the greatest of eases. Heightened, omnidirectional reflexes aren't just "good for stealth".

      You not believing they aren't is entirely inconsequential. I really can't care that you believing Bucky being unable to do anything is "just muscles".

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    • Kingofwolves999 wrote:
      Glad we can agree their mobility is at least equal.

      Peter dealt with 6 drones in that tight corridor max, don’t overplay how many drones he could keep up with. He was running for his life and getting shot up and down the street, don’t pretend Peter was doing perfectly fine against those drones.

      You’re right, Bucky didn’t even do enough to warrant Spidey being stronger than him. Threw a punch and tossed a sign.

      Peter would have to focus specifically on his spidey sense activating flawlessly, similarly to how he did against Mysterio, not just focus in general. Also he’d have to keep it up for a very long time. Deku having some fancy bouncing movement is not enough for Spidey to activate his “oh shit can’t keep up help me spider gods” mode, speed is equal, Peter can react, he just gets outskilled in cqc.

      He was doing perfectly fine in the final battle of FFH. 

      His spider-sense activates flawlessley and there is no such thing as it turning off.

      It isn't just by closing his eyes

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    • Peter taking out six barely moving drones isn’t comparable to Peter taking on far more drones that are actively chasing him and moving

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    • Peter literally gushes about Captain America and you can notice. Contrast and compare Bucky, who he doesn't really care for but he is curious about his arm. His glee and lack of experience was pretty obviously acting up with Cap.

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    • Superman? I don't remember that.

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    • "Six completely cloaked drones that he doesn't know the placement or distance off attacking him in a small hallway is less impressive than a ton of drones in a place Peter can easily outmaneuver them and sees them coming from a mile away"

      Now you are just saying laughable stuff.

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    • His spider sense told let him deal with them and the drones being stationary takes away friction their danger and again the drones were few. On the bridge there were a lot more that he had to evade and they were constantly chasing him down

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    • And he still took care of them.

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    • A lot more that he saw coming, again, from a mile away whwre he could abuse all his ability to move and weave around them. Not a small hallway where getting out of the way of one could easily put him in the attack line of another.

      Compare both feats with and without Spider Sense. If you still think cloaked drones in super realistic illusions in a small corridor is less hard in both cases, I cannot take you seriously.

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    • I didn’t say it was only for sneak attacks, I’m saying that feat for spider sense isn’t incredibly relevant as it’s application there is nothing new or jarring enough to sway my opinion. Deku out classes Spidey in skill easily. With the spider sense, Peter can keep up enough to dodge Deku’s moves. Pre cog is good like that.

      What I am trying to get across to you is that Spidey sense is not consistent enough to beat Deku. Spidey loses hard in cqc without spidey sense, he loses at ranged, his LS is weaker, his combat experience is lesser, and his opponent analysis is incomparable to Deku’s.

      What Peter has is the spider sense to even the playing field despite all that, but it is not enough. Reacting to Deku’s attacks is not enough if he’s throwing them out consistently and always expecting a counterattack. Peter needs to consistently dodge Deku’s attacks to win, because even a couple hits will be wearing him down with the AP diff. Peter needs to be 100% on point in this fight, but the spidey sense is not consistent unless he focuses. The fight with the drones showed this. If his spidey sense was as perfect as it was in the hallway as it was outside, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

      The spidey sense is not infallible or always active or perfect. It comes and goes as it wants unless Peter focuses solely on using it, and persists for a single sequence that could be considered dangerous. Deku is going to be tossing out strategies and attacks that Spidey needs to adapt to immediately, and he needs the spider sense for practically every single one of them. The spidey sense is good. It is not that good, especially against someone with Deku’s mobility and skill.

      He dodged those six drones with his pre cog which I’ve already said is enough to dodge Deku. The illusion part is irrelevant because he closed his eyes, so they didn’t affect him at all. It is his best skill feat to date, I am not downplaying it. Him getting his ass kicked by the drones outside, however, is not impressive for his skill. You phrased him fighting those drones as if he was handling it easily. He wasn’t. He got stomped on by their numbers and barely survived, only because he had a way of turning them off so they didn’t obliterate him by going for Mysterio.

      Peter w/o spidey sense << Deku Peter w/ spidey sense > Deku

      He loses if his pre cog isn’t consistent enough to help him dodge every attack Deku sends his way. Which it isn’t. He can’t focus on spidey sense for the entire fight.

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    • >He needs to adapt

      Spidey can adapt to things quickly, he adapted to Falcon, Thanos, Mysterio, Vulture.

      >He got stomped outside of the building

      Um no, when you watch the fight again, he was dealing with the things very well, the reason why he was so broken inside was due to Mysterio phsycophatically torturing him earlier

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    • He didn’t adapt to any of those characters other than Mysterio, and that isn’t my main point anyway. Deku adapts better than him btw.

      The fight he had right before he goes to the hallway and focuses on his spider sense is the one I’m referring to, where he’s fighting the thousands of drones. Their numbers kicked his ass, if spider sense is as perfect as its being claimed to be when Peter isn’t focusing, he wouldn’t have gotten touched at all. But he got blasted and nearly died several times. There is a limit to his pre cog, it is not perfect or always on.

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    • He doesn't lose any precog, I am not sure how many times I have to say he used it easily with his open eyes. You even see his eyes opened near the end of the fight. And it does, because Peter can react much better to anything Deku does no matter from where or how.

      No, Deku doesn't outskill anything. You not believing the Bucky case doesn't change that it happened.

      And he wasn't actually, it wasn't a cake in the walk, but he wasn't having much trouble. The biggest trouble he ever got was with the explosions, which are a bunch of AoE coming from many individual targets, and that sonic surprise attack while he was catching his breath. He didn't even lose any momentum getting rid of the drones while putting off the flames on himself.

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    • Peter’s Pre cog without his eyes closed is worse than his pre cog with them closed. That’s fact.

      He didn’t outskill Bucky just because he blocked one punch from him and then got kicked by Falcon right after. That’s not how skill works. Prove he outskilled Bucky or literally any other character that has decent skill feats, don’t just say that because I don’t believe it means my argument is invalid. I’ve given clear reasons as to why he didn’t outskill Bucky at all, and it’s contradictory that he outskilled Bucky since he couldn’t do the same to Cap. He fanboyed like once that fight, he was perfectly ready to fight him and wasn’t weighed down by his inner fan. That’s headcanon.

      The point is that Spidey sense isn’t perfect or always on as some people are claiming. How did he get surprise attacked if the spidey sense makes him immune to surprise attacks? Because it’s not perfect. It’s not always on. Also peter beating the drones, is not a good skill feat for 1v1. It’s a good feat for his mobility, crowd control and endurance. Not for fighting someone comparable to his mobility, with better ranged and higher AP and endurance.

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    • deku FRA IG

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    • counted, but is it win by two votes? or three?

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    • No it isn't, peter's spider sense is just as fine without eyes being closed

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    • @Bob8999 Winning is 3 votes, currently this is incon

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    • It was at grace, but the added vote upped it to Incon yes.

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    • win by three, got it, thanks.

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    • Deku FRA

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    • counted.

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    • I'm Blue daba dee daba die wrote: No it isn't, peter's spider sense is just as fine without eyes being closed

      Please name a point in time where Peter showed as much skill as he did in the hallway vs Mysterio as he has anywhere else. That is literally the best skill feat he has ever performed. When Peter focuses solely on letting his Spidey sense guide him, he can perform great feats of precognition. When he is not, it is a semi random occurance that can be overwhelmed by sheer numbers, overt advantages his opponents have over him or too many sudden changes Peter isn’t expecting. The hand gun scene after he opens his eyes is just a basic application of the spidey sense, alerting him to sneak attacks, and is not impressive enough to say he can outskill Izuku. It shows his precog is strong when used, which is obvious and something I’ve already noted is a win condition, not that his base combat skill is high enough to keep up with Deku.

      The spidey sense does not consistently warn Peter of every single attack or movement the enemy is going to make unless he focuses on it and it alone, which was great for that hallway scene vs Mysterio, bad if he wants to win this fight. Deku is going to be on Spidey relentlessly, trying to KO him in the fastest, most efficient way possible right off the bat because he’s at 20%, and the AP gap is high enough for him to do it if Peter gets hit too much. Not to mention that every attack Deku makes with his body is also going to be releasing air shots strong enough to stun and hurt other High 8-c’s with better scaling than Spider-Man.

      Add to this a combat experience gap + Deku’s opponent fighting style analysis just seems like too much for Spidey to handle before he gets knocked out. His webs are pretty pointless as Deku can blast them with air pressure, and god help Peter if Izuku grabs on to them like he did against Shinsou, because Deku can be notorious for using his opponents abilities against them. Spider sense helps and is very good precog, but in direct combat, against someone with comparable mobility and higher stats otherwise, it is not a big enough difference for spider man to reliably win this fight.

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    • Spider-Man beats up a bland anime character fra

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    • How dare you.

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    • >calling deku a bland anime character

      Assketchup
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    • Blood will be claimed



      Anyway, we are in grace again since 2 hours ago. 

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    • Stalker Maggot wrote:
      Spider-Man beats up a bland anime character fra

      counted but rude.

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    • 11-9

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    • GoCommitDi wrote: >calling deku a bland anime character

      Assketchup

      I rather have Ash than Deku as main character tbh.

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    • Say sike right now
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    • I like Ash 

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    • Ash is ass

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    • Match Completed as Incon. Closing this. Feel free to add it to their respective profiles

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