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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    15:08, September 1, 2019

    Hey hey, good new i guess, basically,i've finally remaked her profile in a blog but you need to know sopme things before asking questions

    • Ajimu's profile from the blog only use the hax she showed in the manga, not the wall of text she used against some characters, i've find the idea of just the skill she demonstrated pretty good (and less long to edits)
    • I've ajusted the format and the profile to make him normal, also, just for saying, i'll not change the pictures i used, i find it more cool and for unsealled Ajimu, there is no real pics (don't worry, i'll not ask people to make a render, i caould probably do it myself but the full pics is better to me.
    • The ability called complete arsenal come from Powerlisting but it's only for describing the number of her hax, and obviously, it's the only one which came from here.

    All her stats are unknown, but after the editing of some haxes, i've noticed that, indeed, she could probably be used in battle, i just want your opinion about this

    It's all i guess.
    Ajimu Najimi
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    • I have a lot of issues with it so far, but a really really important one is that Unskilled blocks Ajimu's own skills for 3 minutes. Not the opponent's.

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    • Agnaa wrote:
      I have a lot of issues with it so far, but a really really important one is that Unskilled blocks Ajimu's own skills for 3 minutes. Not the opponent's.

      Oh yea indeed (what a useless skill)

      Fixed.

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    • So, onto the rest of the profile...

      • Where's the scan saying that Ajimu came from nothing? The one linked just says she saw the creation of the universe.
      • Why is "even a resistance to Bookmaker" listed under Reactive Evolution? That wasn't mentioned in the scans linked.
      • There's a comma missing before Immortality.
      • That's not Text Manipulation.
      • Where is Ajimu shown to hurt Non-Corporeal things?
      • There's a comma missing before Martial Arts.
      • What is a "judo take"?
      • It should be "in response to Tsurubami's provocations".
      • I prefer "gave it to Kumagawa" over "imposed it to Kumagawa".
      • Missing a comma before Limited Nigh-Omnipresence.
      • The grammar for Alibi Block's description really needs to be cleaned up.
      • I'm not sure if that's great proof that Ajimu can appear at multiple places at the same time.
      • That Multiple Existence should be its own ability, it shouldn't be tucked away under Nigh-Omnipresence.
      • She shouldn't have "Multiple Existence", she should have "Creation". The Not Equals share just about nothing with Ajimu herself, they're not actual equally-powerful copies of herself.
      • Why does Limited Nigh-Omniscience refer to a note when you've already linked the scan in the explanation?
      • The note for Limited Nigh-Omniscience is inaccurate. The author didn't say that, the narrator did.
      • Lip Service isn't Power Modification, it's Power Bestowal and Power Absorption.
      • What did you mean by "As this ability was one of Ajimu's skills for a time, she could probably use it"? She shouldn't have the ability after she's given it back.
      • I don't get why you gave her Subjective Reality.
      • "Seems to be able to entering the dream world" should be "Seems to be able to enter the dream world".
      • Count Up isn't Mathematics Manipulation.
      • I'm not sure if that counts as BFR since it only mentally puts them there. I'd like more input on this.
      • You should link to the scan for Air Manipulation.
      • "On an certain extend" should be "To a certain extent".
      • That's a really bad justification for resistance to Causality Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation. It should be rephrased to emphasize that while it did affect Ajimu it didn't completely work.
      • Why would she resist Conceptual Manipulation when AF's only feat of working on concepts is erasing colours? There's no conceptual use of AF for her to resist.
      • I don't believe that's the reason why Kumagawa's looking for a skill that can defeat Ajimu.
      • You shouldn't have rewritten the AP section.
      • There's a lot more grammar issues with the profile but I only skimmed over most of the rest.
      • You should delete notes 1-3. 1 for the reason earlier stated, 2-3 since those abilities are no longer listed on her profile.
      • Why does she have an entire tabber for Complete Arsenal?
      • Why is Complete Arsenal linking to another wiki? Just write that she has many more skills at the bottom of the rest of her P&A section.
      • Why did you explain all of the skills in the P&A section? That bloats it to an insane degree when those can easily be moved to her list of skills at the bottom of the page.
      • You forgot one of Ajimu's skills. When she first talks to Zenkichi/Kumagawa after their battle, she says she used a skill to make Zenkichi unconscious. This skill doesn't have a name, but should be mentioned regardless.
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    • A few more things.

      • Ajimu being match banned isn't just because she doesn't have enough useful combat abilities. It's because of uncertainty regarding her tiering, and the fact that we don't know 99.999999% of her skills. But still, I'm neutral on whether she gets match unbanned or not.
      • You should also include the ability from the translated Good Loser Kumagawa novel. She lent one of her Not Equals the ability to reload guns without touching them.
      • I also wouldn't call Ajimu gaining abilities "Reactive Evolution", I'd call it Accelerated Development
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    • She resists conceptual manipulation because she was in full colour when Kumagawa erased colours.

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    • @Agnaa

      Thank you for helping out. I largely trust your sense of judgement.

      Anyway, Najimi has referred to her 700 million human component parts as terminals in the first Kumagawa novel, so she seems to be a shared collective unconscious for all of them.

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    • Is that a joke? Those weren't flashes of her at that moment.

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    • Antvasima wrote: @Agnaa

      Thank you for helping out. I largely trust your sense of judgement.

      Anyway, Najimi has referred to her 700 million human component parts as terminals in the first Kumagawa novel, so she seems to be a shared collective unconscious for all of them.

      The Not Equals...

      • Can be harmed by people far below Ajimu, so they don't share her physical stats.
      • Need to be told information by Ajimu, so they don't share her memories.
      • Act in different ways than Ajimu would, so they don't share her personality.
      • Need to be granted skills from Ajimu, so they don't share her abilities.

      I can't think of anything they actually share with Ajimu. The extent of them being terminals seems to be that they're people that Ajimu communicates with to try to get them to do her bidding. She presumably created them, but she doesn't even have control over their actions, since she gave them free will.

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    • Agnaa wrote: Is that a joke? Those weren't flashes of her at that moment.

      John Cena "are you sure about that?" GREENSCREEN (IMPROVED VERSION)-1

      John Cena "are you sure about that?" GREENSCREEN (IMPROVED VERSION)-1

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    • Ehh, let me breath owo:

      • The first one is here
      • Because as she explained in the scan above^ she do nothing and gain abilities, and this scan imply that she gained a resistance little by little to bookmaker so that some of Reactive evolution
      • Fixed
      • There was a thread that talked about this, if you can find it to me, it should be cool ( i still need to answer your questioning)
      • judo take = taking judo
      • Text stuff is fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed (i guess)
      • But it's probably good to use this description anyway i guess.
      • Fixed
      • I see, fixed
      • I've find the idea of a note good for it, the scan linked is not the good translation, the originakl translation is in the note
      • Power Bestowal and Power Absorption. is fixed
      • I see i see, fixed
      • Yea me too, dunno why i puted it in the profile, fixed.
      • Fixed
      • Count up is a form of Math manipulation, there is no need to manipulate math on a absurd scale, lower things like that work.
      • That a form of BFR i gues, it send your consciousness outisde your body.
      • lemme some time
      • Conceptual Manipulation not really affected Ajimu, the Combinaison of Bookmaker and All Fiction (only used to erase all trace of her in the world) worked.
      • It's a form of resistance to Conceptual Manipulation, only for erasure, not all form obviously
      • I see, well i'll just use the current then
      • because it's for separating the casuala ability to the 14 Quadrillion of other
      • It's still good to describe Ajimu's skill in the Attacks section
      • I'll fix this
      • It is though? i mean this reason is implicit but pretty much work.
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    • @Agnaa

      I suppose that makes sense, although I think that she is supposed to be a sort of collective overmind for them, like cells within her body that automatically grant her the information that they know, but not the reverse.

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    • @Antvasima I've forgotten too much to know whether that's accurate but it seems plausible. Maybe Enhanced Senses could be added, for her being able to collect information through those 70 million humans?

      @Causality

      • Cool.
      • Accelerated Development can happen from nothing, as stated on the page. Reactive Evolution needs something pushing it along. Also, Bookmaker weakened because Kumagawa's heart weakened, this is explained when Ajimu first transfers to the academy.
      • Cool.
      •  ?
      • I don't think that's the right word to use there, maybe something like "judo hold"?
      • Thanks.
      • Cool.
      • Sweet.
      • Awesome.
      • Amazing.
      • Keep it up.
      • If you say so.
      • Great.
      • Nice work.
      • You can just link both translations there, rather than referring to the note for the second one.
      • Ty.
      • You could probably still put Bookmaker on the profile, you just shouldn't have said that she keeps it after she gave it back.
      • With a large profile like this, ofc some things slip through.
      • Alrighty.
      • I don't think it's Math Manipulation at all, just her dipping into her Omniscience in a limited manner. It's not actually manipulating anything, just granting knowledge.
      • Yeah sure.
      • Can do.
      • It did affect Ajimu, it limited her abilities somewhat, but it didn't 100% work. The description for the resistance should mention this.
      • All Fiction doesn't have Conceptual Erasure. It doesn't EE on a conceptual level. It can just affect the concepts of colour.
      • Yeah, I think the current one's more than good enough.
      • I don't think that's needed since you didn't list the 14 quadrillion other.
      • I disagree, it makes the section really hard to read and the information can easily be put elsewhere. It would end up looking more like this profile which imo is much cleaner.
      • Epic.
      • Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
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      • Wait, All Fiction affect Concept by erasing them from Existence but it's not Conceptual Erasure? i don't get it.
      • Fixed the Attack section
      • Fixed the other tabber
      • I'll mention the things about resistance in the profile
      • Well then i'll remove Math Manipulation
      • Then i'll re-add Bookmaker later (the description said that after she gave Hundered gauntlet to Misogi, she stole Bookmaker, she didn't has it when she gave it back)
      • I'll fix the Nigh-Omni description then.
      • Accelerated Developpement is fixed

      Ehh, i'll probably take my time to fix the rest.

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    • Yeah, it doesn't erase everything on a conceptual level, but it's been shown to affect a concept. At least, that's sort of how Earl explained it to me.

      Some other verses apparently have stuff like this with absorption and other abilities.

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    • Count up would be limited Information Analysis, I think.

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    • Agnaa wrote:
      Yeah, it doesn't erase everything on a conceptual level, but it's been shown to affect a concept. At least, that's sort of how Earl explained it to me.

      Some other verses apparently have stuff like this with absorption and other abilities.

      Hmm that make no real sense to me. For exemple, Red is a Color but a Concept too, if you erase Conceptually Red, you erase a Concept, the same way as if you erase the concept of "10" which came from the Concept of "Number", you erase a concept.

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    • But, if he erases "you," then only your body disappears.

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    • Here's part of the Discord messages Earl sent on this.

      It just means it can erase concepts, not that it can erase everyone on a conceptual level. A CRT would need to be made to change this.

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    • The ability is Conceptual since it erase all object of this Concept from existence, for exemple, not only the visual color dissapear, but the physical object that represent those colors are removed, so yeah, only "your body" dissapear because it's the only object of your concept, the concept of "you"

      anyway, let's talk to this for another CRT i guess.

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    • Agnaa wrote: A few more things.

      • Ajimu being match banned isn't just because she doesn't have enough useful combat abilities. It's because of uncertainty regarding her tiering, and the fact that we don't know 99.999999% of her skills. But still, I'm neutral on whether she gets match unbanned or not.

      Isn't All For One similar in that regard?

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    • Have Agnaa's evaluation results been applied?

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    • @Ant I will be out for some times due to irl things, I'll let Agnaa handle the rest of the draft corrections, I've fixed most of the stuff. @Agnaa feel free to copy-paste [my draft] in your sandbox.

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    • Okay.

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:

      Isn't All For One similar in that regard?

      I'm not sure how similar All For One is, but I know Yū Otosaka, Oryx, the Taken King, and Scion (Worm) all have thousands/quadrillions/trillions upon trillions of abilities of which we only know about a few. This reasoning isn't consistently applied, but it's the one used for Ajimu regardless.

      Then again, I haven't seen any of those verses' communities argue that "We only know a fraction of their skills so they must have this random ability!" or complain that "We only know a fraction of their skills so this match doesn't count!" It may have been a combination of that reasoning and the community around the verse.

      @Causality I'll look at it some time today. Are you fine with me moving the description of the abilities away from the powers and abilities section, or do you want that to stay?

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    • About the conceptual EE. Yes, as i said in the discord msg which agnaa posted posting stuff i said without my permision *sike* affecting concepts doesn't make it conceptual. When he erased zenkichi, the concept of the human named Zenkichi didn't cease to exist, only Zenkichi did. This happens because authors tend to make a rather big difference between affecting a concept in general, and affecting something on a conceptual level. 

      So it would rather need some form of other feats or statements. So Kumagawa would have Concept Manip for being able to affect concepts, but he's not shown to conceptually erase everything. Kind of like Non Physical Interaction, you can touch wandering souls, but that doesn't mean that if you punch a human you'll punch his soul too. 

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:

      Agnaa wrote: A few more things.

      • Ajimu being match banned isn't just because she doesn't have enough useful combat abilities. It's because of uncertainty regarding her tiering, and the fact that we don't know 99.999999% of her skills. But still, I'm neutral on whether she gets match unbanned or not.
      Isn't All For One similar in that regard?

      There is a huge difference. All For One, Oryx, Yu etc all have a set of abilities they use and fight with. Example All For One fought All Might, so we know on average what he can and will do in character. Ajimu has like 12.8 Quadrillion, out of those she has shown about 620 or so, and out of those 620 we only know what 12 of them do. Out of these 12, 3 of them are not in her possession (hundred gauntlets, five focus and parasite seeing) so unusable by her. Out of the remaining 9, 2 of them are not even combat applicable (eternal life and count up). Out of the remaining 7, Life Zero has never shown to be used. Out of the remaining 6, one of them is specific to a single ability and therefore useless (the one which negates parasite seeing). Out of the remaining 5, she has used none for combat. 

      So like...what would you argue of her. It'd be different if we had like 20 abilities to work with (like how we do with Medaka), but this is just...impossible. 

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    • Well, we don't have to use her skills from the end of series, we could use any set of skills she owned at the same time, right?

      She'd be able to nullify skills with Life Zero, we could use her when she has Five Focus or Bookmaker, and she could make people unconscious.

      That's more than a fair amount of characters, but is only 4 skills out of her whole arsenal. On top of that, her AP and speed are both very ambiguous. Not a lot to go off of but there might be enough for a few fights. But you are right that we don't know what she'd use in an actual combat context. She's basically the Barney of manga

      @Causality There's still some things that we haven't really come to a conclusion on that I'd like you to address before I go through correcting all the minor mistakes and putting it in my sandbox.

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    • why dont we just say that ajimu is 247 times older than the universe instead of 246.5715192 times older... thats too many decimal places 

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    • @Agnaa

      Pretty sure we do not do that. Ajimu cannot have Bookmaker, otherwise we'd have to use her sealed form. We cannot use a composite skill version of Ajimu as it would be contradicting with the timeline. 

      We do not know when she had Five Focus either, we just know she gave it away. And many other points. And that's all coming together to a single point that is "we still do not know the limits to her skill". I mean All Fiction is a single skill and we do not know it's limits (by that i mean we can't settle on it's actual potency to the point where me and fate got bored of arguing), she has 12.8 quadrillion of these abbominations. 

      And "there might be enough for a few fight". No...just no. We don't give profiles for characters the unban card then say "there are like 4 possible opponents for her in the whole wiki, don't put her up against anyone else", if we're giving her the unban, she will be put up against many people, we can't restrict that part. 

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    • Bookmaker: Couldn't we make fights for the sealed version? It's not like most of her skills are useful anyway. But then again, we don't know if she could even use Bookmaker then or if she just had it. It should probably be removed from the draft.

      Five Focus: We could use Ajimu from 100 years ago to get around that issue, right?

      We don't know her limits: To paraphrase Saikou in a previous thread on this issue: It happens a lot, so what if it happens to Ajimu?

      There's only four possible opponents: Well, yeah. There are quite a few "Every fight is a mismatch" characters, that alone isn't a big deal.

      She'll be put up against a lot of people: True. I don't particularly care either way on the match ban. I used to support it, but after seeing arguments against the match ban I can see the benefits to either approach.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: @Agnaa

      Pretty sure we do not do that. Ajimu cannot have Bookmaker, otherwise we'd have to use her sealed form. We cannot use a composite skill version of Ajimu as it would be contradicting with the timeline. 

      What about before he sealed her? Actually, do we ever see him doing that?
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    • @Procrastination If it was before Ajimu was sealed, then Kumagawa still had Bookmaker, and Ajimu didn't.

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    • Ok, I was wondering if there was an interval where she had it, but wasn't sealed just yet. There's still dream world Ajimu.

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    • @Agnaa Do whatever you want with the draft.

      @Firephoenix, i don't agree. the Conceptual feat of All Fiction come from the anime, you can't argue that it' don't erase concept when the source we use, the anime erase them (I've already talked with Assalt about this feat and anime was clearly accepted as Conceptual Erasure), what you said about the manga isn't really relevant since we don't have infos of the effect of Zenkichi's erasure, you can't say that "the concept of zenkichi didn't dissapeared" without info and i know you will say "the is memory of him" but that also the case for the anime feat with the colors and was agree to be conceptual erasure.

      And from what i know, being able to interact with concepts isn't really conceptual erasure, but more a feat of non-corporeality

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    • @Causality

      As i said, im not saying the concept erasure isn't legit. It's just that as i said, interacting with concepts gives you concept manip, it doesn't make your ability conceptual in nature. 

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    • That's more a Sementic case i guess

      My thought about that is, interacting with Concept don't grant you Conceptual Manipulation, in the same way as interacting with fire don't grant you fire manipulation so imo.

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    • The Causality wrote: That's more a Sementic case i guess

      My thought about that is, interacting with Concept don't grant you Conceptual Manipulation, in the same way as interacting with fire don't grant you fire manipulation so imo.

      Some people agree with that interpretation too, but the thread in general disagreed, and gave the feat Concept Manip.

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    • As i said. It does give concept manip, it just doesn't make it conceptual erasure. Example, the ability can affect souls without being spiritual. 

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    • @Fire I know what you said and in a way i agree, that why i said that those case shouldn't be Conceptual Manipulation but just Non-Physical Interaction on a conceptual scale.

      @Agnaa Ah too bad for me then.

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    • Im saying "concept manip" is correct. Cus even though it may not be conceptual in nature you're still manipulating concepts. The profile is correct, we just shouldn't say the ability is conceptual in nature.

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    • I will unsubscribe to this thread due to time constraints. Please send me a message after you have finished.

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    • bump.

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    • Quoting something I told to Fire:

      Do you guys think Ajimu profile name should be changed to 'Najimi Ajimu'?

      Because her first name is 'Najimi' and her surname is 'Ajimu'

      much like everyone knows Kumagawa as 'Kumagawa', but his first name is still 'Misogi'.

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    • The name should be changed, yes.

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    • I’d say look into all her Mage abilities, they allow her to govern many many things, arguably things that would make people 1-A.

      Adaptive Power (Humour Contest: Be stronger than the Opponent skill.)

      Void Manipulation (Cool from Zero Cool: Subdue Nothingness skill)

      Absorption (Know How Vacuum: Absorb others skill)

      Power Nullification (Lost Password: Set enemy to level 1 skill)

      Subjective Reality/Reality Warping (Next Honest: Words become reality skill)

      Clairvoyancy/Precognition (Area Free: Clairvoyance skill)

      Life Manipulation, Death Manipulation (Zero Sum Real: Control Life & Death Skill)

      Probability Manipulation (Isolate Space; Control Probability skill)

      Fate Manipulation (Sequenced catastrophe: Invalidate Fate skill)

      Time Manipulation/???? (Feel Retaker: Do a retake skill)

      Passive Death Manipulation: (Deathst Moment: If you are seen they die skill)

      Skill Mimicry, Power Nullificatiin (Rob Airtain: Skill robbery skill)

      Spatial Manipulation (King Mapping: Manipulate Coordinates skill)

      Existence Erasure (I banish: Annihilation skill)

      Instinctive Reaction [?] (Death Meeting: Continue fighting even if you die skill)

      Law Manipulation (Excpetion Please; Create an exception skill)

      Plot Manipulation (Godeye: Interfere with the Narrative skill)

      Fate Manipulation (Transport Plan: Control Fate skill)

      Sealing (Sleeping skill: Sealing skill) < This one lied!!!!

      Law Manipulation (Rule Make: Create laws skill)

      Soul Manipulation, Absorption (Portable Soul: Absorb souls skill)

      Resurrection (Repeater kitsch: Revival skill)

      Accelerated Learning (Skillful: Master skills skill)

      Spatial Manipulation (Grab empty: Distort Space skill) 

      Fate Maniplation[?] (Murder Mathematic: Win against stronger opponents skill)

      Immortality (Type 5/7) (Undead Genius: Immortality skill)

      Heres a few for you, I may give you some more but as you may know things on my end are difficult right now.   

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    • Feel Retaler could be Fate/Causality Manip too.

      Death Meeting could be immortality as well.

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    • Which Tier would Ajimu finally be?

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    • @Udlmaster Causality did that for their last draft but decided against doing it here. Medaka Box isn't 1-A, we know about the skills that seem to imply it.

      @Coolest Unknown.

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:

      Agnaa wrote: A few more things.

      • Ajimu being match banned isn't just because she doesn't have enough useful combat abilities. It's because of uncertainty regarding her tiering, and the fact that we don't know 99.999999% of her skills. But still, I'm neutral on whether she gets match unbanned or not.

      Isn't All For One similar in that regard?

      Prime is, but we know most of his normal quirks

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    • Agnaa wrote:
      @Udlmaster Causality did that for their last draft but decided against doing it here. Medaka Box isn't 1-A, we know about the skills that seem to imply it.

      @Coolest Unknown.

      Yeah, the Beyond Higher dimensions stuff, but she also governs coordinates, parameters and such.

      But I think she should at least be “Unknown, at least Low 2-C“ 

      There’s more than enough evidence to prove she’s Low 2-C at the very least.

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    • Eugh, have you been in any of the past threads about Ajimu's tiering? You're not bringing up anything new.

      Why should she be considered at least Low 2-C?

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    • Considering how vague the tier 2 stuff is, “Unknown, Possibly Low 2-C” seems better

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    • Agnaa wrote:
      Eugh, have you been in any of the past threads about Ajimu's tiering? You're not bringing up anything new.

      Why should she be considered at least Low 2-C?

      Because she scales above multiple beings who have Low 2-C feats and has Low 2-C feats herself.

      Having abilities that can create a Universe, tanking the Big Bang, possibly multiple times if the Big Crunch is correct. 

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    • Udlmaster wrote: Because she scales above multiple beings who have Low 2-C feats and has Low 2-C feats herself.

      Having abilities that can create a Universe, tanking the Big Bang, possibly multiple times if the Big Crunch is correct. 

      No she doesn't and no she doesn't.

      We don't know what was exactly meant by creating a universe (is it a full-sized thing or just a pocket reality?) or how long it takes her to do it.

      Tanking the big bang is only 3-A and even then (if you're taking all of her single-sentence description skills as accurate) she could have used a skill to tank it or avoid it entirely by going non-corporeal.

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    • Medaka has Universal+ scaling, abilities and statements.

      Kumagawa has Universal+ EE which was stated to not affect Ajimu.

      She naturally has Baby Planet, she created the Dream world, which is shown to be very likely Universal in size and has its own time flow.

      Etc.

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    • Medaka and Kumagawa aren't universal+. That got rejected.

      I already commented on Baby Planet.

      What do you mean she created the Dream World? That seems plausible but I don't exactly remember it. And either way, the Dream World isn't an actual physical place, so creating it isn't an AP feat.

      This is all old-hat and why Ajimu was put at Unknown instead of just 8-B.

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    • >Medaka and Kumagawa aren't universal+. That got rejected.

      Why? Medaka has fought beings who control 4-D space, has her own Universe creating ability and so on.

      Kumagawa consistently shows Universal EE feats and was stated he was going to destroy the Universe.

      >What do you mean she created the Dream World? That seems plausible but I don't exactly remember it. And either way, the Dream World isn't an actual physical place, so creating it isn't an AP feat.

      It is a physical place though, Ajimu destroyed a Star in there, and people are obviously able to touch things, and even if we assume it’s not a physical place, she created a Universe on some level.

      >We don't know what was exactly meant by creating a universe 

      I wonder if it involves creating a Universe.

      >(is it a full-sized thing or just a pocket reality?) or how long it takes her to do it.

      It doesn’t use the words “Pocket realm” or “Pocket reality” so to say it is, is a baseless assumption, and by the text it would be assumpted to be instant as it doesn’t say “over time” or any such thing.

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    • Perhaps you should make a CRT.

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    • GojiBoyForever wrote:
      Perhaps you should make a CRT.

      There is a CRT, it died.

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    • Udlmaster wrote:

      There is a CRT, it died.

      Should I bump it?

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    • Sure

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    • >Why?

      Dude, you were in the thread.

      >Medaka has fought beings who control 4-D space

      Who?

      >Her own universe creating ability

      Same issues as Baby Planet.

      >Kumagawa consistently shows Universal EE feats

      Kumagawa has never ever EE'd a universe. The highest AP he's demonstrated with his EE is barely 10-A. He erased colour on a likely universal scale but that doesn't scale to AP and has its own weirdness with it, and is the only time it managed to erase something on that scale. It seemingly couldn't even erase the moon that Testament brought down.

      >and was stated he was going to destroy the Universe

      No. The scans used the word "world" and both of those statements are extremely dubious. One of them has Kumagawa lying about AF's capabilities in the next panel, and one of them stated that Kumagawa is trying to destroy the world when "I want to erase the universe" is never mentioned as a motive/goal of his.

      >Ajimu destroyed a Star there

      That doesn't make it physical. You can "destroy" things in non-physical dream realms.

      >People are obviously able to touch things

      This happens all the time in fictional dream worlds???

      >even if we assume it's not a physical place, she created a Universe on some level

      Not on a physical level, so it doesn't scale to AP.

      >baseless assumption, by the text we should assume it's instant

      Sure, but we have too little information on those skills to properly say, imo. There's three skills that involve Ajimu killing herself yet she stays alive. There's multiple skills that involve the other person dying yet they stay alive.

      I don't like taking two statements from these massive walls of text that don't result in actual effects on the series as evidence of tiers way above anything else demonstrated in the series.

      @Goji, Udl, Coolest No need, it was rejected.

      This kind of shit (repeatedly bringing up the same arguments with no new information for 4 years) usually gets discussion thread rules made about it.

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    • Agnaa wrote:

      @Goji, Udl, Coolest No need, it was rejected.

      This kind of shit (repeatedly bringing up the same arguments with no new information for 4 years) usually gets discussion thread rules made about it.

      Is this the CRT that got rejected? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3216866

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    • Actually, this topic already has a discussion thread rule about it.

      @Coolest Yes.

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    • >Who?

      I forget her name, she has 4-D space she manipulates and can turn people into 2-D beings on Cards.

      >Same issues as Baby Planet.

      There aren’t issues.

      > Kumagawa has never ever EE'd a universe.

      This is the same argument used against Cell being 4-B.

      >The highest AP he's demonstrated with his EE is barely 10-A. He erased colour on a likely universal scale but that doesn't scale to AP and has its own weirdness with it

      Erasing the concept of  Color across the Universe is a Low 2-C feat, 3-A if you want a very low ball.

      >It seemingly couldn't even erase the moon that Testament brought down.

      Likelt PIS or he just didn’t want to, being Chaotic Neutral personified.

      >No. The scans used the word "world"

      The kanji for “World” also means Universe and society (Insert Joker meme here), that’s why, and seeing as he removed the Universal concept of colour, individually erasing them, he has the range and EE AP to do it.

      >That doesn't make it physical. You can "destroy" things in non-physical dream realms.

      Okay, if it can be destroyed it means it’s real, meaning she did create a real Universe, and again, even if we assume it’s non-physical, which hasn’t been proven, it means she created a real realm on some level, it doesn’t matter if it’s physical or not, because it means that it was created as a real Universe, physicality doesn’t matter.

      >Sure, but we have too little information on those skills to properly say, imo.

      We do though, it states it creates a Universe, like, it’s very straight forward.

      >There's three skills that involve Ajimu killing herself yet she stays alive.

      Ajimu has resurrection abilities and immortality abilities as well, so they’d cancel those out.

      >

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    • I will unfollow this thread, my job is done I guess, I let Agnaa do the corrections he want in the draft. Sorry.

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    • I'm gonna drop this and respond in discord, since the topic's banned.

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    • @Udl Stop derailing. This is a formal warning. You know the rule on this one, I've seen you acknowledge its existence. 

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    • Mr. Bambu
      Mr. Bambu removed this reply because:
      .
      02:22, August 28, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • I have a few new abilities for Ajimu from the new translation of the new Good Loser Kumagawa novel chapter. The changes to All Fiction have their own CRT, but since we're already revising Ajimu I'll put her stuff here.

      One of Ajimu's Sword Skills, "Sword Looks", originally described as a "Sword purification skill" has its application shown here, where Ajimu used it to "make up" the Hero's Sword. To me, the scan implies Weapon Creation even though that is nothing like "sword purification".

      On top of this, Ajimu set up a rule for the Hero's Sword, making it so that only a hero can pull it out. This seems like Law Manipulation to me. However, since it's not a skill I'm not sure if Iihiko's power null would necessarily scale to it, any thoughts on this?

      To go back to things from other sources that aren't on Ajimu's profile yet, she should get the skill Lady Guitarist added in, which lets her reload guns without touching the gun or the bullets. I'm not sure what ability this should be, but it should be one.

      She should also get Sleep Manipulation for having an unnamed skill that instantly made Zenkichi unconscious.

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    • Thanks for the reminder.

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    • Re. Ok i have some time to throw so:

      • Changed Mathematics Manipulation to Information Manipulation
      • Changed her AP description with the current one
      • Mentionned that Najimi didn't completly resisted to Bookmaker's effect
      • The new Ajimu stuff is done (Weapon Creation, Law Manipulation, Sleep Manipulation, Summoning (for Lady guitarist)

      @Agnaa What should i do now?

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      • You should remove the leftovers of the tabber from the start/end of the P&A section.
      • I'd change "She demonstrated to being able to lift large structure in a sealed state but we don't know what she can do in her Ultimate form" to "She could easily lift a soccer goal when sealed by Bookmaker, but she lacks lifting feats when unsealed".
      • Stamina should have a comma after "Unknown" and before "possibly infinite", and the justification should be rewritten but I'm not exactly sure how.
      • Why does her range go up to Low-Multiversal? Shouldn't it only cap at Universal?
      • The skill names shouldn't be bolded in her range justification.
      • I'm not sure why "Ajimu is also defeatist and seems to overestimate his enemies, even when she win against them instantanously, she even asked Kumagawa to find someone who can kill her despite her astronomical number of skills " was added to the end of her weaknesses, it seems unnecessary and irrelevant.
      • The note is under a bullet point when it shouldn't be.

      I'll double-check her powers and abilities for grammar later, since I don't have the time right now.

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      • The leftover is for make my editing more easy,i will fix this don't worry
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Yeah that's Universal, i've fixed that.
      • Fixed
      • Well, i've find the fact that Ajimu is defeatist relevant for a weakness, but i can remove it if necessary.
      • Fixed

      OkOk

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    • That's all? I hope we can replace the old profile with the new tomorrow, my time is limited and in september i'll probably not being able to edit again. If the P&A is fixed, Agnaa just need to clean up if necessary and we're done.

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    • We could implement it now/tomorrow and I could edit in any grammar fixes later.

      Or we can leave adding it until I have time to check the grammar myself, and the page could be posted then (so you wouldn't need to edit when you're busy).

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    • the second solution is fine to me, also, i'am already at "tomorrow" now (it is 3am) so that fine after my sleep ;)

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    • Okay,last checking:

      • Agnaa, are you sure to not put an attack and technique section as i've originaly made?
      • Can we mention the "rest of her skill?" with a link to her page from the medaka box wiki? since actually, people use her 814 skills in battle
      • I'll also add Durability Negation since i've forgot it.
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      • I won't put it in, even though I'd prefer one, since you haven't put one in.
      • We can.
      • Thanks.
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    • I've originally made a Attacks section but i thought you tell me to remove it iirc.

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    • I wanted the descriptions of abilities to be in the attacks section, not the powers and abilities, and you wanted it to stay in P&A

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    • Ah no, they are separated, P&A have his own description when Attacks section has his own.

      I guess it's fine?

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    • I'm fine with the Attacks section being there or not. I'd rather the descriptions not be in the P&A but it's up to your discretion.

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    • I mean a lot of profile add a description of the move in their P&A and Attack section.

      Anyway, the change i've made are done, now you just need to check the draft again and fix stuff if necessary.

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    • @Agnaa are you done with your change?

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    • No, I've been too busy.

      Refer to what I said here for how to proceed.

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    • Okok, i've corrected the grammar errors i guess i can post it and after that could see if there is still errors

      I'll warn Ant that we reached a conclusion.

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    • Let's wait to see what Agnaa says first.

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    • The Coolest Water Bottle wrote:
      Quoting something I told to Fire:

      Do you guys think Ajimu profile name should be changed to 'Najimi Ajimu'?

      Because her first name is 'Najimi' and her surname is 'Ajimu'

      much like everyone knows Kumagawa as 'Kumagawa', but his first name is still 'Misogi'.

      Guys, should we consider a name change?

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    • Jotaro yes yes yes
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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      Jotaro yes yes yes

      Is that to me?

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    • It was to The Coolest Water Bottle. We should upload it, though.

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    • I would prefer to get a confirmation from Agnaa first.

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      • We should change the name to Najimi Ajimu.
      • The leftover tabber in the powers and abilities section is still there.
      • If we're actually listing out each power she has in the notable attacks/techniques, you should also list out "Unnamed Skill" (that made Zenkichi unconscious), and Sword Looks/Lady Guitarist.
      • "Ajimu in her quest to find an impossible thing gained" should be changed to "Ajimu in her quest to find an impossible task gained".
      • Why does that description of Accelerated Development say "Without any logic or purpose"? That wasn't mentioned in the scan and makes the ability seem more powerful than it is.
      • I still disagree with you mentioning a resistance to bookmaker in the Accelerated Development section. Here's my latest comment on it "Also, Bookmaker weakened because Kumagawa's heart weakened, this is explained when Ajimu first transfers to the academy."
      • That scan doesn't support type 3 self-sustenance, even though I wouldn't be surprised if Ajimu had it.
      • The description for type 1 immortality should probably just be "One of Ajimu's abilities grants her eternal life, she has lived for over 3 trillion yaers."
      • You never explained why you listed her as able to hurt non-corporeal beings.
      • The ability's called "Hundred Gauntlets" not "Hundred Gauntlet".
      • "A skill that reverse causality" > "A skill that reversed causality".
      • "This ability allow her to see what other peoples see through their own eyes" > "This ability allows her to see what other people see through their own eyes".
      • "The ability to tampers with a person's" > "This ability tampers with a person's".
      • The description of Alibi Block right now makes it seem like she has omnipresence across time and space "wherever and whenever she wants", when it's mere spatial omnipresence (the scan says "I can be wherever I want whenever I want").
      • To try to fix this description, I've rewritten it "A skill that allows Ajimu to appear wherever she wants, whenever she wants. Including physical places such as a locked room, space, heaven, and hell, as well as metaphysical places like dreams and hearts. However she has also demonstrated appearing in multiple places at once, appearing in both Kumagawa's and Zenkichi's hearts."
      • I think Creation's explanation should be "Ajimu has 700 million human terminals across the world".
      • I am still against having the redundant note 1.
      • Ajimu seems to have taken back All Fiction from Kumagawa, not Hundred Gauntlets. This may actually mean that Ajimu could get All Fiction on her profile for a time.
      • "an ability which allow the user to nullify and block her skills during 3 minutes" > "an ability which allow Ajimu to nullify and block her own skills for 3 minutes".
      • I've rewritten Five Focus' description "Five focus is a minus that manipulates ailments, it can both inflict and cure diseases for anyone scratched by the user's claws. Ajimu never displayed this skill herself, as she bestowed it to Aoki Aka."
      • "she must to first kiss them" > "she must first kiss them".
      • I think Bookmaker's description should cut the entire part about why she had to take Bookmaker. This is needless fluff that doesn't actually explain the skill.
      • Bookmaker's power list isn't Sealing, it's Memory Manipulation, Power Nullification, Statistics Reduction, Durability Negation, Non-Physical Interaction, likely Sealing. Even though I'm not sure why NPI is here, it should be consistent with Kumagawa's page.
      • "a metaphysical place by kissing them" "a metaphysical place, by kissing them".
      • "It's implied that Ajimu possesses a skill which allow her to control people's mind" "It's implied that Ajimu possesses a skill that lets her mess with people's minds".
      • "Ajimu say that she has a skill" > "Ajimu says that she has a skill"
      • The comma after Summoning should be moved before it.
      • "A skill created to negate the effect of Parasite Seeing" > "A skill that negates the effect of Parasite Seeing"
      • "Could Resist to the effect of Bookmaker to an certain extend although she didn't completly resisted to it, negated Momo Momozono's sealing" > "Partially resisted the effects of Bookmaker, escaped from Momo Momozono's sealing in a week".
      • Again, I don't think Ajimu should get resistance to Conceptual Manipulation for resisting All Fiction, as there's no indication AF erases people on a conceptual level.
      • I think the description for resistance to AF should be "Partially resisted the effects of All Fiction, although the skill was still an important part in sealing Ajimu".
      • Now that I look at the page, I think it's too confusing to include the "and hundreds of abilities". If it's at the end of that section, it makes it seem like Ajimu resisted those hundreds of abilities. If it's earlier it would look awkward. I think that part could just be removed.
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    • The Coolest Water Bottle
      The Coolest Water Bottle removed this reply because:
      No.
      22:42, August 31, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • I am fine with Agnaa's suggestions.

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    • I'am on phone now but I can answer to a few things.

      • About Conceptual Erasure, this Erase on a Conceptual level, if not, all objects of the "red", "blue" and the "colors" shouldn't disappeared, and the fact that Now it's stated to could be able to Erase Concept make the resistance more solid. (I've talked with Assalt about this feat and was agree with Erasure of a Conceptual level)
      • You should change Kumagawa's Bookmaker's description then, it's noted as sealing, and I trust Firephoenix decisions about this ability since he is the one who wrote this description and list every ability involved instead of just mention the effect is a waste of time.
      • The note is already on the current profile, and I think he is pretty fine.
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      • It still hasn't been accepted as such, a CRT would have to be made. And from the few talks I've had with other people, that isn't enough evidence for conceptual erasure.
      • I don't know what you mean by this, it's noted as "likely Sealing" but it's mainly categorized as memory manip, power null, and statistics reduction. Treating it this way was a decision made by Firephoenix iirc. The descriptions I see on profiles don't just call it "sealing". I think listing those effects is important, because if someone resists those things they resist those aspects of Bookmaker.
      • My bad, that note's fine. Her limited nigh-omniscience and precognition description references a deleted note, so that mention should be removed.
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      • It has been accepted though? Kumagawa's profile say "Could Erase the concept of colors", this is literally Conceptual Erasure, no need to make a CRT since the profile alredy have Conceptual Erasure.
      • Well, Fine then

      The other stuff

      • Tabber Fixed
      • Added
      • Fixed
      • Not really, Ajimu was surprised about the fact that she gained more and more skill randomly, but with or without the sentance, it's the same result as she gained those ability without doing anything.
      • Well, i've removed the bookmaker section instead of write your sentence for a better structuration.
      • It support though? being born before all creation and during million of year it's pretty enough for type 3.
      • Fixed
      • It was on a thread where this has been accepted, but i'll remove it, i'am too busy now
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Don't really see the issue, it look like fine since it's Ajimu's words, it's not across time
      • Fine.
      • Not really, she said that she "taken back Hundred Gauntlets" not All Fiction, that's the reason why Kuma still has a part of AF.
      • Fixed
      • Ok
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed 
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • Fixed
      • I've just move the hundreds of ability a bit above before the resistance, not removed it.
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    • It has been accepted though? Kumagawa's profile say "Could Erase the concept of colors", this is literally Conceptual Erasure, no need to make a CRT since the profile alredy have Conceptual Erasure.

      Again, that's not proof of erasing everything on a conceptual level, that's proof of erasure affecting concepts.

      I don't know what I can do to convince you. I've told you multiple times, I've shown you other people agreeing with me...

      Not really, Ajimu was surprised about the fact that she gained more and more skill randomly, but with or without the sentance, it's the same result as she gained those ability without doing anything.

      She didn't say she was surprised in that scan. And she never said anything about there being no logic or purpose.

      It support though? being born before all creation and during million of year it's pretty enough for type 3.

      I don't think that has anything to do with type 3. She could have slept in that empty void.

      Don't really see the issue, it look like fine since it's Ajimu's words, it's not across time

      Those aren't Ajimu's words though. She said "I can be wherever I want whenever I want" and you said "she can be wherever and whenever she wants". If you want I can try going through the difference, or you could take my word as a native speaker that the former only implies spatial omnipresence while the latter implies spatial and temporal.

      Not really, she said that she "taken back Hundred Gauntlets" not All Fiction, that's the reason why Kuma still has a part of AF.

      That scan was incorrectly translated, as was mentioned at the start of the next chapter. It was meant to say "Bookmaker". Also, she didn't even say she took back Hundred Gauntlets, she said she gave Kumagawa Hundred Gauntlets but had to take All-Fiction.

      But to give you back "Hundred Gauntlets", I had to trade your "All-Fiction" in for it.

      So taking that quote and applying the fixed translation, Ajimu took All-Fiction from Kumagawa to give him Bookmaker. And that's exactly what we see play out in the story.

      I've just move the hundreds of ability a bit above before the resistance, not removed it.

      I think you should have a comma before "and hundreds of abilities".

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    • >Again, that's not proof of erasing everything on a conceptual level, that's proof of erasure affecting concepts.

      The problem is that firstly the profile say that it can erase concept, not "affecting concept" and that's literally make no sense to Erasing a Concepts from existence and not Erasing on a Conceptual level, Kuma's feat affect concept by erasing them, but fine i'll drop this, i've not enough time to debate much.

      >She didn't say she was surprised in that scan. And she never said anything about there being no logic or purpose.

      No but you clearly understand in the scan, but fine i'll remove it too.

      >I don't think that has anything to do with type 3. She could have slept in that empty void

      This Concept don't exist yet since it's before creation itself so it's safe to say that this is type 3

      If the scan was not correctly translated, the i'll add All Fiction into her skill

      OkOk

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    • This Concept don't exist yet since it's before creation itself so it's safe to say that this is type 3

      Time still existed back then, there's no indication that the idea of "sleep" wasn't around then. I think type 3 is baseless.

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    • Time is arguably plausible, but "sleep" is pretty a huge assumption without concrete proof but meh, i'll remove it.

      That's all?

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    • All Fiction should be mentioned under Causality Manipulation, and should be included under Abnormalities/Minuses.

      And that's all, I'm pretty sure.

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    • Finished.

      Damn, you gave me a lot of task lol

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    • Actually, I think Lady Guitarist should be Teleportation and not Summoning, since it moves the bullets into the gun, rather than summoning new bullets into the gun.

      I'd also change its description under notable/attacks techniques to "A skill that lets Ajimu reload guns without touching the gun or the bullets."

      Also, all the skills besides All Fiction/Bookmaker/Lady Guitarist/Sword Looks have their Kanji written out, like this: (指折り確認, Kaunto Appu). Here's the Kanji for those four abilities:

      • (大嘘憑き, Ōru Fikushon)
      • (却本作り, Bukku Meika)
      • (弾爪の麗人, Redi Gitarisuto)
      • (見囮刀, Sōdo Rukkusu)

      And yeah, Ajimu's a pretty big profile.

      With these changes I think the profile is good to upload.

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    • Thank you

      Now it's done

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    • Thank you for helping out.

      Has the profile been updated or do I need to unlock it first?

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    • Ajimu's profile is still locked.

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    • Okay. I will unlock it. Tell me here when you are done.

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    • @Ant it's done

      And you should change her name to "Najimi Ajimu" instead of "Ajimu Najimi"

      And before we close this, i want some opinion about her usage in battle since now, the profile have clears abilities.

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    • She is as usable as Chiyo (Ane Naru Mono).

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    • I have renamed and locked the page.

      She still has impossible to determine power levels that risk to turn any versus discussions confused and neverending though.

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    • Remember when we had them fight? I was one comment away from saying how Chiyo won.

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    • Is there anything left to do here?

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    • No. Not unless people want the note removed.

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    • Okay. I will wait a little for more replies before I close this then.

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    • I'm neutral on whether Ajimu should stay match-banned or not.

      I'm not sure how we could even have a match with her, since we can't even tell what dimensionality she has, meaning we don't know who her hax would work against and whose hax would work against her. I'm still worried that matches would turn into a shitshow where people either ignore that fact, or assert a certain tier for her despite the profile being Unknown.

      But then again I don't think that's an issue with other Unknowns. I just don't know how the community would end up treating it.

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    • Remind me why she has all fiction.

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    • Agnaa wrote:

      I'm not sure how we could even have a match with her, since we can't even tell what dimensionality she has, meaning we don't know who her hax would work against and whose hax would work against her. I'm still worried that matches would turn into a shitshow where people either ignore that fact, or assert a certain tier for her despite the profile being Unknown.

      I have similar concerns.

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    • Yea the problem isn't really the tier but more with her bullshit number of usuable abilities, so dunno if we try to unban or stay the profile banned to be safe.

      But by looking at some Medaka/Kumùagawa/Iihiko's match-up, it's dangerous.

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    • I wouldn't take making a match with her lightly, but I'm not sure if an outright ban is necessary.

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    • Isn't there also the matter of her being from a metafictional series, that often has scaling involving metafiction elements?

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    • We have already discussed this issue to extremes, and consistently reached the decision that we shouldn't allow these matchups.

      Should we close this thread now?

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    • Yes

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    • What metafictional scaling?

        Loading editor
    • The theory of narrative causality/that main characters always win no matter how illogical it is, among other things.

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    • Anyway, I will close this now.

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