Shouldnt we add Power Manipulation to the wikia? When I say "Power Manipulation" I mean the ability to overide and take control of someone else's powers for your own purposes. I am very certain that this has been done enough in fiction to make it an actual power here.
ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: Shouldnt we add Power Manipulation to the wikia? When I say "Power Manipulation" I mean the ability to overide and take control of someone else's powers for your own purposes. I am very certain that this has been done enough in fiction to make it an actual power here.
like making the enemy's time stop heal and let you walk around while the enemy gets frozen or redirecting the attack while giving it new effects?
Antoniofer wrote:
Yes, but Power Modification is kinda specific and uncommon, so personally I would merge it with an hypotetical (Super)Power Manipulation.
Yeah, rarely there is food that isn't (or doesn't possesses) organic matter, unless it can control salt or similar (but in that case it would be Earth Manipulation [salt]).
Mm, I was expecting more elaboration than that (an one example at least). But going with the typical idea of "system", I guess you mean something like "manipulate the relationship and interaction between principles, ideas, laws and elementals that constitude a whole", that could vary between Biological Manipulation to Conceptual Manipulation, something that is pretty broad.
Mmm, broader powers are more acceptable than specific ones in general, but then we got powers that are the mix of other ones; I'm not the last word tho, other ones can say what they think, but I believe that not just system can cover several things, but also few characters have it (at least I do not remember any).
I imagine a imaginative writer could make that very interesting as an ability.
I myself when writing took “adding anything to anything” to its extremes, having the character add space between them and people, or add “death” to a person.
Hmm, what if it's evolution of an ability? Biological manipulation doesn't fit there.
Also what Procell does is evolve inorganic objects so doesn't really fit there either.
Procell's evolution can fit under time manipulation since his ability advances objects to their future forms, idk about Arifureta though, they can evolve objects, people and abilities.
The adding anything to anything isn’t system manipulation, I was giving an anecdote about my writing of a character having an ability and extending it to its logical extremes.
@Antioniofer In regards to who Procell or Arifureta characters?
For Procell off the top of my head only remember him being able to advance things to their future forms, he used it on a MOAB, making it far more powerful.
In regards to Arifureta, Evolution Magic allows the user to basically make themselves more powerful, it's explained as like changing a persons stats from level 1 to level 2.
In addition it strengthens their abilities and basically evolves all the other 6 abilities such as time manipulation, soul manipulation, gravity manipulation etc to create concept manipulation.
Later on it is explained that the version of the abilities the characters use is limited so really Evolution Magic is a limited form of Information Manipulation, still think listing whatever Evolution counts as an ability would be nice though.
I mean, cause progression via Time Manipulation its possible, but it do not help to turn stuff into anothers if they wouldn't eventually change without outside influence.
That magic sounds like it increase experience, thing that allows other to increase stats, in whose case, I believe it qualify as Variable Manipulation (that I guess its covered by our Information Manipulation).
Celestial Pegasus wrote: @Antioniofer In regards to who Procell or Arifureta characters?
For Procell off the top of my head only remember him being able to advance things to their future forms, he used it on a MOAB, making it far more powerful.
In regards to Arifureta, Evolution Magic allows the user to basically make themselves more powerful, it's explained as like changing a persons stats from level 1 to level 2.
In addition it strengthens their abilities and basically evolves all the other 6 abilities such as time manipulation, soul manipulation, gravity manipulation etc to create concept manipulation.
Later on it is explained that the version of the abilities the characters use is limited so really Evolution Magic is a limited form of Information Manipulation, still think listing whatever Evolution counts as an ability would be nice though.
Isn't that time manip? Evolve something to a future version. Or did I understand wrong?
@Antoniofer Yea i do think Procell's ability is time manipulation.
Evolution magic enhance all other forms of power, no matter how weak. As i said it is covered by information manipulation cause the true extent of the ability is interfering with information, it evolves stuff by interfering with a persons body's information that says level 1 and raises it to level 2.
Average users of the ability can only evolve things, proficient users like Hajime and Yue can interfere with the information in all objects and do things like erasing information on the internet on a planetary scale or erasing ppl's power.
Anyway i will just add time manipulation to Procell.
It was for anything that its inanimated, manufactured, tangible and not alive, if want to be more specific. Its basically telekinesis, but without psionics and/or limited to specific objects.
For characters like Miyako Hotsuin and The Player (Wizard101) who have a form of paradoxical existence. There are more examples, but I can think of those of the top of my head.
I thought of something like rage power but instead of being limited to anger would include any emotions (i.e. getting stronger when being sad or happy)
Paradoxical Existence like, being alive and undead at the same time, existing despite having your parent being killed in the past and thus having no origin, and so on?
Antoniofer wrote: Paradoxical Existence like, being alive and undead at the same time, existing despite having your parent being killed in the past and thus having no origin, and so on?
I feel like in most case, its give Acausality Type 4
Antoniofer wrote:
Paradoxical Existence like, being alive and undead at the same time, existing despite having your parent being killed in the past and thus having no origin, and so on?
Like, being simultaneously light and darkness, or existing as two beings that have one set of information
People with time paradox immunity are paradoxes of the space time continuum, and there are other ones who ignores the laws of logic like Alis Color who's dead and alive at the same time, and reality warpers that can manipulate it altogether like The Doctor's TARDIS and Q Continuum.
Crzer07 wrote:
People with time paradox immunity are paradoxes of the space time continuum, and there are other ones who ignores the laws of logic like Alis Color who's dead and alive at the same time, and reality warpers that can manipulate it altogether like The Doctor's TARDIS and Q Continuum.
Well, think of people that basically still exist despite their origen were destroyed, whatever a time paradox or their creator were decreated, people that are alive but at the same time dead (not an undead).
Eh, no, Organic Manipulation is the power to control organic matter, it was made to cover character that can manipulate ink, oil, food, sugar, and all these compounds (there weren't a previous power that covered that). You're confusing it with Biological Manipulation, and yet its still different than Life Manipulation.
Why is it needed though? Bio manip pretty much covers that, sure its a bit weirder/esoteric form of bio manip but its still a character manipulating organic compounds from what I can tell....
I meant obscure, odd, very limited, getting late around here. I don't know it just seems bizzare to try and make up their own category but thats just my take.
I beliwve that there were a category of it even before the page itself was created. But either way, the power is not covered by neither Life or Biological Manipulation, and its pretty common.
I dunno if this has already been discussed elsewhere but I feel there should be a construction/building power, a large amount of characters would have this, especially from games like Minecraft or even Fortnite, but it obviously wouldn't be exclusive to game characters as others like Emmet would also have it, it'd simply be the ability to build large structures in a short amount of time (or just in general).
Fortification, maybe? I'm not adverse to it, it isn't exactly a supernatural power so much as the ability to create large structures in a short span of time. I agree the power does exist, whatever we call it. If it warrants an ability page, it at least isn't redundant.
I actually had intentions of creating a power like that, but never got around to it
The main thing to decide is what the requirements would be to have this power, because not fully supernatural abilities like these always run into the risk of being given to characters who really shouldn't have it
perhaps characters who are notably proficient such as the characters I mentioned above, like game charactes who's game revolves around building bases or characters like Emmet who are explicitly stated to be "master builders"
Maybe they didn't know about the Glyph Creation page, it's not really that common here tbh so a lot of people wouldn't know about it, I didn't until 5 minutes ago XD.
IR’s only glyph creation for characters that actually create some sort of platform (if it’s fancy it’s glyph creation, if not it’s platform creation but links to glyph creation). If it’s stuff like kicking the air, it’s only pseudo flight.
I feel like Glyph Creation should called Platform Creation instead, as its current name suggest more association to runes/magic (as the same page suggest).
Yeah, jumping off air like Mario's double jump. I guess it would be pseudo flight or even better if the character can continue jumping or even stack multiple jumps into a single one.
Power Manipulation. Summary: The power to manipulate powers.
Meaning - The user can create, manipulate, remove, change, etc, the supernatural energies/properties in all beings that give them their powers, including themselves, thus allowing every variation of powers and manipulative abilities.
Limitations - Universal Irreversibility, Omnilock, Probability Manipulation have slight resistance.
Users of Power Anchoring cannot have their powers manipulated.
May be unable to create powers, being limited to manipulating only already existing ones.
May be limited to a certain nature of the abilities (DNA, Magic, etc).
AConfusedPerson wrote:
Power Manipulation. Summary: The power to manipulate powers.
Meaning - The user can create, manipulate, remove, change, etc, the supernatural energies/properties in all beings that give them their powers, including themselves, thus allowing every variation of powers and manipulative abilities.
Limitations - Universal Irreversibility, Omnilock, Probability Manipulation have slight resistance.
Users of Power Anchoring cannot have their powers manipulated.
May be unable to create powers, being limited to manipulating only already existing ones.
May be limited to a certain nature of the abilities (DNA, Magic, etc).
Also, please don’t just copy pages from the superpower wiki
Power Modification only changes the function of powers. Power Manipulation lets you change them, give them, remove them, copy them, and anything more esoteric like fusing them.
Power Modification only changes the function of powers. Power Manipulation lets you change them, give them, remove them, copy them, and anything more esoteric like fusing them.
Power Modification only changes the function of powers. Power Manipulation lets you change them, give them, remove them, copy them, and anything more esoteric like fusing them.
I only mentioned it making power bestowal redudant due to this :P
That was a statement that had a limit, read. Plus, I exaggerated it. They give themselves Logic/Data Manipulation, Meta-reality warping and then they have pretty much no virtual limitations. Something like Superman (Original/OP).
AConfusedPerson wrote:
That was a statement that had a limit, read. Plus, I exaggerated it. They give themselves Logic/Data Manipulation, Meta-reality warping and then they have pretty much no virtual limitations. Something like Superman (Original/OP).
I don’t think you really understand how things work here. A power doesn’t suddenly have infinite potency in any case without extreme amounts of evidence, especially generic power pages that are not verse specific.
We can only rate a character based on what they've shown, and assume that's their cap. For instance, Saitama's best feat is stopping Boros' surface busting attack, and although he is likely far more powerful, that's where we assume his limit to be.
GyroNutz wrote:
You mean Saitama's moon jump? That's about 8x lower than Boros' SCRC, which is backed up by a guidebook to be able to wipe the surface of a planet.
Power Modification feels a little redundant, but would Power Creation be useful? Off the top of my head I can only remember one character with it, are there any others?
Possibly any user under these pages: Ability Creation and Meta Ability Creation. Although, I feel it could be covered under Power Manipulation (if its made).
Everything on it, besides Power Creation, is already covered by other profiles, and it'd basically be a combination of those. It seems better to just make Power Creation, and give any character with Power Manipulation all the sub-abilities they demonstrate.
EDIT: Sorry, I meant Power Manipulation's redundant, not Power Modification.
Agnaa wrote:
Everything on it, besides Power Creation, is already covered by other profiles, and it'd basically be a combination of those. It seems better to just make Power Creation, and give any character with Power Manipulation all the sub-abilities they demonstrate.
EDIT: Sorry, I meant Power Manipulation's redundant, not Power Modification.
Well, the current issue is that Power Modification should have some of the applications of Manipulation as described above, but not all of them. That’s what the revision I made was for.....
Agnaa wrote:
Power Modification feels a little redundant, but would Power Creation be useful? Off the top of my head I can only remember one character with it, are there any others?
One quick ability I know could share in a lot of characters (or I at least know a few). What about a page for Adhesive or like stickyness. Quite a few characters who use this offensively to hold opponents down or stick them to an area. But I’ve never seen a page on it. So Adhesive Manipulation. Or some other better name
I see. While i'm here are we allowed to make powers & abilities pages, i've only ever seen staff members that've made them so I just assumed it was left to staff, never really confirmed it to myself though.
I think Surface Scaling was originally called Adhesivity or something along that line. Dunno why it got changed tho because it's so much more than just climbing walls, like the stuff you mentioned too.
KieranH10 wrote:
I see. While i'm here are we allowed to make powers & abilities pages, i've only ever seen staff members that've made them so I just assumed it was left to staff, never really confirmed it to myself though.
I think Surface Scaling was originally called Adhesivity or something along that line. Dunno why it got changed tho because it's so much more than just climbing walls, like the stuff you mentioned too.
I read the page as making sure on that. And it doesn’t cover it being a form of attack. Only what the page calls it. Scaling surfaces.
“Surface Scaling is the ability to move along walls, ceilings and similar surfaces without the risk of falling from gravity. This could involve a variety of different methods ranging from creating attraction between a part of one’s body and the surface to making use of spiked footwork. What’s important is that the user be granted a free range of motion across all conventional walls and ceilings without needing to significantly alter the wall or ceiling itself or rely on specific features present on them that wouldn’t be found in smooth surfaces.”
So doesn’t actually cover those who can manipulate and use stickiness offensively or defensively
There's a thread on it happening rn if you want to add some input there. I fully agree Adhesion should have stayed as it was, surface scaling could have been it's own thing, they are 2 seperate powers.
I disagree with Trap Mastery as a power due to being a normal skill anyone can have that can just be elaborated within a characters' Feats part, in its Intelligence and as Preparation, which they will always have anyway. Trap Mastery is redundant.
Walker21232123 wrote:
Soda Manipulation. Pepsiman has it.
No. We're not going to have a different Manipulation page for every food or drink a handful of characters can manipulate. We're not the powerlisting wiki.
That can be said About Stuff like Weapon Mastery and Martial arts. Technically anyone can have it. the degree can vary. Like Dan Hibiki and James Bond. Both have it to vary different degrees. Saying a random character could have it through just trying to make one shouldn’t be used if they haven’t ever displayed trap making.
Trap creation I think is different enough to be a variation. It’s significantly different enough. Trap mastery focuses on waist to restrain and or incapacitate an opponent.
Preparation usually is equipment they have Already have but need prep for, Increasing physical status through certain mean, or mentally preparing.
On top of that. Trap mastery doesn’t require prep to say. If one is quick enough. They could theoretically make traps mid fight. People like naughty bear make traps mid fight. One using their environment and other such things to trap opponents is a trap mastery skill which plenty of fictional characters have displayed. This skill specifically should be different enough from prep to have its own page.
As said before, it can just be added to a character's Feats part or its Intelligence, it has no reason to be yet another new power. Having many unnecessary powers is harmful to the wiki as it can be expected to many users to like, pay some (unnecessary) attention to them, and the amount of powers we already have is overwhelming.
also trap creation can just be part of creation, matter manipulation or the construction power that may be accepted, it is unnecessary and its variant, trap mastery, is obtainable with intelligence and speed, kinda like the constructiuon power.
but even the mastery was a actual supernatural abilty, it would probaly be related with genius intelligence
We rather create Innate Capability or similar to cover any knowledge about certain ability or knowledge other than weapons and combat: architech, craftmanship, traps, cooking, etc. So, if people do not want to write it on the intelligence part (fair enough, a character can be suited in a certain field without the need to be smart), at least they would have a power that cover several others.
Has something like Shockwave Manipulation been considered? This power happens way too much to bother to count, unless something else already covers that.
If construction gets accepted and posted. Trap mastery can be a possible Variant of it
Yeah it could be, i've already mentioned how it could be used to build traps on the page, I don't think it should be it's own variant but it could be discussed.
Not really. While traps can be built with prep. Trap mastery is just a great skill of creating traps, and don’t even require prep to even make them. People like naughty bear utilize trap building mid fight. Even Homer once created a trap within a few seconds using a small tree.
By the logic of traps being used quickly within combat then the same still applies to Preparation, you can prepare a trap in less than a second, it is still Preparation as long as the trap wasn't there before. Just try to change the wording in Technological Preparation, that would be better than making a new power.
Also question. Would Synchronization work as a power? I’ve seen a few characters use this ability. But not sure if it has a page already or something that defines it. Someone in very early naruto used it in early naruto to synchronize with someone in a class for a test so he could get the right answers. (I’m talking early early. First few episodes possibly.) As well, Andy and Ollie as twins are able to move synchronized with each other perfectly due to their mental states. This also could maybe apply for Thunder McQueens stand. Since it sort of synchronizes him and his opponent.
Should we make a page about Passives in general? I noticed there isnt one and you have stuffs like Hax who have their own page and Passives are more common in this wiki
A few people on this thread agree that adding a Dynamax ability to the Pokemon within SwSh would be better than adding Dynamax as a key for every Pokemon (Plus, having a Dynamax and Gigantamax key on the same Pokemon is redundant). Gigantamax Pokemon will receive a key in addition to the ability, as it's a unique form for only a limited amount of Pokemon, like Megas.
The Pokemon/keys that would receive this ability are every Pokemon that appears in SwSh within the first (pre-evolution) key. Pokemon with a Gigantamax/Mega key (which I'll be adding soon) would note that they do not have this ability ("All previous abilities, except Dynamax")
Verse-exclusive powers don't have the Powers and Abilities category on them, idk if they should be discussed beyond the threads of their respective verses. This is because they are mostly good to go, they just facilitate writing and other stuff like that.
Eficiente wrote: Verse-exclusive powers don't have the Powers and Abilities category on them, idk if they should be discussed beyond the threads of their respective verses. This is because they are mostly good to go, they just facilitate writing and other stuff like that.
Eficiente wrote: Verse-exclusive powers don't have the Powers and Abilities category on them, idk if they should be discussed beyond the threads of their respective verses. This is because they are mostly good to go, they just facilitate writing and other stuff like that.
TBF gem physiology is more about several abilities inherent to an entire race, rather then a single ability common across several character. Everything else fair game.
Eficiente wrote: Verse-exclusive powers don't have the Powers and Abilities category on them, idk if they should be discussed beyond the threads of their respective verses. This is because they are mostly good to go, they just facilitate writing and other stuff like that.
Are there any specific regulations on creating pages for verse-specific Powers and Abilities? Or is it just a "make sure it's okay with admins" kind of thing?
DarkGrath wrote: Are there any specific regulations on creating pages for verse-specific Powers and Abilities? Or is it just a "make sure it's okay with admins" kind of thing?
The knowledgeable users on the verse have to be fine with it, as Eficiente told me, but beyond that, none as of now.
Gotcha. I was planning on making one for the Code Vein verse in which I'm pretty much the closest thing to a knowledgeable member who's interested in it. :P
DarkGrath wrote: Are there any specific regulations on creating pages for verse-specific Powers and Abilities? Or is it just a "make sure it's okay with admins" kind of thing?
It'd need to be unique/seperate enough compared to other powers and abilities.
Survivalism - A character's ability to survive in the wilderness without modern comforts. Things like hunting/tracking, knowledge on edible plants/fungus, basically any skill or knowledge that keeps you alive outside of civilization.
I just noted that slimy/liquid characters tend to have consistent powersets (Shapeshifting/Body Control, Elemental Intangibility, Regeneration), and thought that listing it as a single power would be convenient.
Regeneration seems way too variable to be listed like that, and without it you're just combining Body Control and Elemental Intangibility, which seems too niche/pointless, especially when (I think?) Elemental Intangibility was considered too niche for its own page.
Agnaa wrote:
Regeneration seems way too variable to be listed like that, and without it you're just combining Body Control and Elemental Intangibility, which seems too niche/pointless, especially when (I think?) Elemental Intangibility was considered too niche for its own page.
It's a little unusual as a type of regeneration, though we can still quantify it on the same scale. It really stems from immortality type 2, and the ability to put oneself back together.
That reminds me, we should have a scale for type 2 equivalent to type 3.
The God Of Procrastination wrote:
It's a little unusual as a type of regeneration, though we can still quantify it on the same scale. It really stems from immortality type 2, and the ability to put oneself back together.
But what I mean is that there's no default level of regeneration to be assumed from that, so regeneration would need to be listed on its own on the profile anyway.
I agree with Agnaa's points. There is no default regeneration from from those cases of Elemental Intangibility. For example, in One Piece, characters with those type of Elemental Intangibility have regeneration that wildly varied like Borsalino's High Regeneration, Sakazuki's Low-High Regeneration, and Kuzan's High-Mid Regeneration.
Ok. So I gave it a little thought, I do know several characters who use it, just felt a little to useless at first. But I do see potential use that they have used this power for
Color Manipulation. Exactly what it sounds like, able to manipulate, change, or remove the color from objects or people.
The uses i have seen in this as a sort of Camouflage. People like Pink panther have turned his environment pink to conceal his body,
Removing the color is capable of turning them invisible (as lacking color, they become clear)
A certain characters have removed emotional or manipulate them through color or lack of color. I believe De Blob is an example for that
It can be useful against people who use color specific stuff as well potentially. Certain characters like maybe Inkling who can utilize a specific color of ink. Though that may be situational depending on the character
Mmm, marginally, by altering the properties of objects (unless you suggest using Matter Manip to control light, in which case yes, but still mainly Light Manip).
To be fair, anything can be Conceptual Manipulation, is the meta level of any power, consider Meta Color Manipulation to be a subpower Meta Light Manipulation.
The Smashor wrote:
The only two characters I can think of that can get that are Minecraft players and D&D players (Especially Artificers)
Epithet Erased would get it since those characters can imbue their powers into objects. i.e. if they can de-age someone they can add that to bullets to de-age people when they're hit by them. So it's not even just RPG verses.
Retrocog is a significantly more limited form tho, it only allows you to see stuff that's already happened and might or might not be dependant on touch.
For example, take Arkham Batman's Detective Vision which creates accurate representations of past events via observing evidence and not actually touching it. Or Eagle Vision in Assassin's Creed, which literally requires you to do nothing and you'd see all the past events that happened (And sometimes in places where you're not supposed to see them but do anyway due to overexposure to a machine that allows to relive ancestor's memories which casuses halucinations of memories of previous ancestors merging with the present).
I've used Power Bestowal for Enchantment in the past, but Power Bestowal seems to apply to beings, while Enchantment would apply to objects. Maybe Enchantment could become a subtype?
Eagle Vision doesn't involve math, it's a literal sixth sense. Doesn't require the user to anything except just activate the sense. Though it does also analyse stuff to give more info about objects and whatnot in addition.
I've been told that Information Analysis doesn't have to be mathematical. I've given it to characters who've had "Detect Magic" spells and stuff like that. I'm sure sixth senses would fall under it too.
Aim is more of a skill thing than Superhuman Physical Characteristics, I'd say, that page focuses more on raw stats. And Weapon Mastery doesn't really cover well people who have super aim with pretty much anything (like, say, Ultimate Hawkeye or Bullseye).
Agnaa wrote: I've used Power Bestowal for Enchantment in the past, but Power Bestowal seems to apply to beings, while Enchantment would apply to objects. Maybe Enchantment could become a subtype?
Well, I find very illogical that Power Bestowal only works on beings. But if you mean subtype as in "Enchantment" linking into Power Bestowal then I agree with that.
I think Mediumship is a fair bit different from all that. Speaking to animals isn't exactly in the same school as being able to communicate with spirits/spiritual realms/etc.
After reviewing these comments so far, I'm gonna give some feedbacks and clear up some confusion people have with certain powers and more responses will come in a few minutes.
@The God of Procrastination You're right but instead of the word "bypassing," we should use the word "Penetration" for abilities that ignores immunities/resistances (yet they aren't negated nor removed) and abilities that involves penetrating (involves piercing, breaking and etc. collectively) any form of defense (such as shields and forcefields) as well.
For Example: Resistance Bypassing would be called Resistance Penetration.
@Elizhaa Bypassing/Penetration is definitely different from Negation, they clearly are not the same.
Example: A person use a force-field or possesses a resistance/immunity to your powers, so what do you do in order to use your offensive powers on them?
Answer 1: Get through their defenses & use a specific ability that ignores resistance (this is Penetration).
Answer 2: Get rid for their defenses & resistances (this is actually Removal because if you use Negation, they will still have it but they can't use it until you stop using the ability)
Answer 3: Temporarily deactivate the force-field and their resistances so your powers can be used on them (this would be Negation if its temporary, not allowing powers to work permanently is actually called "Power Deactivation")
@ZackMoon The type of language-based ability they will get is dependent on how the characters in the verse does this
@Professor Yeah, I agree with having Power Manipulation since we have powers like Mind Control and all.
@Unshakeable I wouldn't automatically consider "Power Modification" as Power Manipulation per se as you can still use your powers (which is the exact opposite of what controlling-based powers do) and the person who modified it could either make your powers better to your advantage or worse to your disadvantage.
@Muchacho mrm That's called Air Jumping (also ability we need to have) & infinite air jumping would fall under psuedo-flight. As for the other ability you mentioned, that's Platform Creation.
@ChaosAyase What the...just h...no. Glyph Creation =/= Platform Creation and see one of the responses about that I sent for @Antonio.
@Celestial Time Manipulation cannot cause progression because that only affects the growth of things, not their genetics.
@Agnaa From what I know about Power Manipulation, you don't get more powers from using this ability, which that will be Power Absorption + Power Mimicry (if you can use the stolen powers) in this case. The only thing you're doing with this ability is simply just controlling powers similar how Mind Control and other abilities based on controlling things usually works.
@Mr. Bambu Organic matter like honey, gasoline, wax, bones and etc. that @Antonio said may be organic "living" matter but neither of those forms of matter has a life force, so Life Manipulation would not apply here.
Organic Manipulation is still considered acceptable here, moving on.
I'm okay with Fortification (Creating Castles, Fortresses, and Strongholds).
@Andytrenom Yes, all physical things but not non-physical ones, so that isn't enough reasoning to not have object manipulation.
@Crzer Intangibility doesn't automatically allow scents and gases to go through you unless the character's Intangibility is stated to be capable of doing so & invisibility prevents being seen by sight, not from being heard.
That's like saying "I'm invisible from your line of sight by hiding behind a separated wall that was placed outside of a building, so that automatically means you cannot hear me make a sound behind it despite standing right in-front of the wall where sounds can be easily heard near the wall."
@Just a Random Conditional Abilities will definitely needed as there are quite a variety of them.
@Kieran Regarding Surface Scaling, you are not required to have Adhesion to do this since its possible to do it with speed alone. Adhesivity means having natural adhesion that allows you to stick onto objects/solid materials while Adhesion Manipulation allows you to control the adhesion of things in general.
Nothing wrong with Construction Manipulation since some characters were shown to have that.
@Buttersamuri We should have both Adhesivity and Adhesion Manipulation.
@Walker Soda Manipulation would fall under Liquid Manipulation if it was already on the VSB wiki that is.
Which I would suggest possibly adding Matter State (Solid, Liquid, Gas and Plasma) Manipulation in this case.
@Bobsican Doesn't that logic only apply for Cold & Ice and Fire & Heat? Ice being created naturally requires matter state manipulation (Liquid to Solid) or existing water (thats nearby or secreted from your body) being frozen into ice via Cold Manipulation (Thermal Manipulation also works too in this case but you already knew that).
Calling it "Heartlessness" is pretty straightforward and I prefer that name instead imo.
@The Smashor Having Pain Tolerance wouldn't be too bad. I believe that we should have both Pain Tolerance & Pain Suppression since Pain Suppression can be done manually while Pain Tolerance is having it naturally or requiring a buildup of your pain threshold in order to have this.
@Buttersamuri Traps can be created either manually in any length of time, which always requires preparation or be created supernaturally. Unlike Trap Intuition (which is the right term for it, not Trap Mastery), Martial Arts is one of those combative-based skills that has given levels of proficiency (Novice|Expert|Master) and that would be allowed to receive a "Mastery" rating if the character is justified to have it.
Synchronization would be needed.
@MrDrProfessor Goo is a type of organic living matter, not inorganic non-living matter.
@Agnaa Yea, Goo physiology can also be linked there too.
I agree, if any characters have Elemental Intangibility, then giving them regeneration is considered unreliable unless already stated to also have that ability.
@ApiesDeath Survivalism sounds like a skill involving a collection of physical and mental-based skills that may fall under this, it should be under Intelligence for now.
@Kieran Burrowing should be fine.
@Monkey Dunno Zoolinguilism and other -lism powers related to being able to speak any non-English & non-human languages =/= Translation
Translation = Translating a language to a language that you understand but however, you aren't able to speak the unknown language
Zoolingualism = Being able to both speak language of animals and translate what they say to people who understand your natural human language.
Evolution may be a part of Biological Manipulation in a way but still different from it.
I already mentioned about Power Modification to @Unshakeable
Imperceptibility (can't be preceived by the 5 human senses) would be needed and separated into types. which Inodorosity, Ingustability (having no taste as mentioned by @Crzer) and Inaudibility are considered as good examples of it since they fall under that power.
I also wish dividing powers into types weren't a thing too but if we don't do that, superpowers would be too complex to understand without separating any possible differences that it may have. Also, dividing sub-powers into types under 1 power reduces the creation of specific powers anyway.
Paradox Defiance might need its own page and this pretty much gives you the first 3 or 4 types of Acausality by default, according to what the ability allows you to do as explained on the page.
Paradox Existence may be a part of Acausality but actually a different power & there's multiple types of it.
Undead Pulse can be named to Perfect Undead (being both alive & dead) and we really need that on the Immortality page since Undead is already a thing, so should Perfect Undead.
Also, Deathless Immortality should be changed to "Amortality" (neither dead or alive) tbh.
Innate Capability would be needed as well.
Glyph Creation =/= Platform Creation, using glyphs to create platforms is a type of method of using this ability, it does not automatically mean they are the same.
Trapping Intuition would be the right term since just having the knowledge of being capable of doing it, doesn't automatically mean you mastered it and this applies to all other skills based on having the knowledge to do it.
Language Assimilation should be a separate power as you're gathering knowledge of how to speak the language of the person you're using this ability on through physical contact.
I agree with separating -lism (ex: Zoolinguilism) abilities into types under 1 power.
Enchantment: Power Bestowal and/or Statistics Amplification.
Retrocognition: Limited Clairvoyance, Extrasensory Perception and/or Psychometry. For the given examples it's none of those powers but Information Analysis because math.
Mediumship: Well, I don't disagree with it but I do have to say that I don't find it worth it.
Enchantment: It clearly does not work that way, its a type of spell (also known as a hex) to bewitch things such as objects and/or people, so it has nothing to do with bestowing power. As for Statistics Amplification, this just a bonus to it but then again, not all Enchanters can do this due to possible limitations their enchantments may have.
Retrocognition: It's funny that we can't have this somehow but we have Precognition, which is basically that but the exact opposite of the ability. So yeah no, that's not a valid reason why we can't also have Retrocognition. Retrocognition involves seeing into the past and knowing past events, not Information Analysis (since it allows you to immediately know all biological-rated things about a person, which Recognition cannot automatically give you that knowledge instantly). It may be a type of power that you could do if you have Psychometry and/or Clairvoyancy but is still considered different from that.
Mediumship: This power may not be worth it to you in your viewpoint on it but not to others.
Superhuman Marksmanship: Who said that this ability only involves weapons? It could also involve objects being used as projectiles, so you wouldn't automatically have Weapon Mastery by default.
Edit: I'm rephrasing this as I'm really trying to say here is that perfect accuracy that Superhuman Marksmanship allows you to have is gained through supernatural means, which is something that Weapon Mastery cannot automatically give you because some characters aren't guaranteed to have perfect aim nor do they always possess supernatural abilities when using real weapons.
Another thing, just because Superhuman Physical Characteristics exists does not mean this ability cannot be mentioned on the character's profile and should be considered as a type of Superhuman Physical Characteristics like we do with other powers that are separated into types. Not every character has all types of the ability, so in the character's powers & abilities should list only the specific types of superhuman characteristics they have instead of saying "Superhuman physical characteristics" if they only have like one or two that falls under SPC.
Who said that this ability only involves weapons? It could also involve objects being used as projectiles, so you wouldn't automatically have Weapon Mastery by default.
Weapon Mastery doesn't actually require for the object to be a real weapon, it just has to be used as a weapon, such as would be the case with using a projectile. Iihiko Shishime's an example of this, since he can use any object as an effective weapon. Having used glasses, a rubber band, and air as weapons in fights.
@JoshSSJGod Oh that, this would be OHKO (One Hit KO) Immunity, which is another thing that we should also have but still don't yet.
This only prevents instant-killing/instant knockout attacks for the character. Other methods such as Erasure, Disintegration, and durability penetration-related hax would get past this tho.
@Sean @Magi It isn't always just a OHKO immunity, in quite a few RPGs there's abilities like that which let characters survive any attack as long as they're above 1 hp; they don't need to be on full HP for the ability to kick in, so it doesn't always just prevent OHKOs.
@Agnaa In order for it to be considered as weapon, they have to use supernatural means on the object or any non-physical thing they're using to work like one.
Otherwise its just throwing objects with perfect accuracy without having to use anything in a form of an actual weapon. Weapon Mastery is basically having full knowledge on a variety of ways to use an actual weapon but this does not automatically give you Superhuman Marksmanship as you are not guaranteed to have perfect aim in all of the weapons that you use.
I never said they needed to be at full hp for it to work & I mentioned other methods that can bypass that immunity.
There's 2 responses for you that talks about Power Manipulation and Elemental Intangibility.
You're correct that Weapon Mastery does not automatically give Superhuman Marksmanship. But Weapon Mastery also does not automatically give Superhuman Swordsmanship. All different forms of expertise with all different forms of weapon are part of Weapon Mastery, and this would include Superhuman Marksmanship. Thus, it does not need its own page.
I never said they needed to be at full hp for it to work & I mentioned other methods that can bypass that immunity.
OHKO immunity sounds like it only works on one-hit KOs, hence my assumption. And sorry, the stuff you edited in got edited in as/after I posted my message.
There's 2 responses for you that talks about Power Manipulation and Elemental Intangibility.
I had nothing to say to your response about Elemental Intangibility, since you were just agreeing with me and the topic was long settled. I'm not sure what post of mine you were responding to about Power Manipulation, even when searching through my old posts. Since I can't follow your logic, I can't comment further on it.
@Agnaa I mean, the point of Superhuman Marksmanship allowing you to have perfect accuracy is through supernatural means.
All those forms of expertise that involves ultilizing variety of weapons without using supernatural abilities to have it would not include Superhuman Marksmanship but something similar to a far lesser extent that allows peak & enhanced human characters, for example, would get a lesser form of that ability instead.
My response to you in regards to Power Manipulation was:
"From what I know about Power Manipulation, you don't get more powers from using this ability, which that will be Power Absorption + Power Mimicry (if you can use the stolen powers) in this case. The only thing you're doing with this ability is simply just controlling powers similar how Mind Control and other abilities based on controlling things usually works."
So having this ability on the wiki shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Weapon Mastery through supernatural means is still Weapon Mastery, and is still listed as such on pages. I also wanna note that some forms of supernaturally enhanced accuracy would be Probability Manipulation or homing attacks.
I know what your response IRT Power Manipulation is, but I don't know what I said for you to respond that way.
@Agnaa That logic only applies if the character uses supernatural means and would be considered as an advanced version instead of a regular version of Weapon Mastery. It would also fall under Vector Manipulation too (and again, only applies if the character uses this ability for that) and its more like it has a homing effect due to your supernaturally enhanced line of sight that Superhuman Marksmanship gives you rather than using an ability to auto-aim your targets for you.
I was hearing about your disapproval about it and wanted to point out somethings of why it could still be added.
Yeah, that's what I said. Supernaturally-granted skill still falls under skill, and gives Weapon Mastery. Other supernatural forms of aim help can be Probability Manipulation, homing attacks, Enhanced Senses, Vector Manipulation.
Okay but regardless, that wouldn't disprove the idea of it being added and also, Superhuman Physical Characteristics is dependent on abilities like that anyway.
Power Mimicry copies powers either by seeing it being used once or using Power Absorption (which this method can last temporarily or permanently), which Power Manipulation wouldn't fall under since that ability is its own power. It definitely does not fall under Power Nullification and Power Bestowal, which aren't good examples. Lastly, Power Modification only alters & interferes with powers by only improving or worsening it, Power Manipulation has nothing to do with that at all.
We don't need new abilities for every single different niche way that a character can be above-normal-human. The ones we have already are more than enough.
Power Mimicry doesn't require seeing it used, but you're probably right that copying something wouldn't quite fall under manipulation, mb for including it.
It definitely does fall under nullification and bestowal. Power modification lets characters nullify or bestow abilities, right? How does power manipulation have nothing to do with modifying powers, nullifying them, or bestowing them? What do you think it does?
@Agnaa So I guess that would make it somehow perfectly acceptable give all characters "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if there are cases where they only have 1 type of this power then. It shouldn't take to long to see the problem in this.
So if you controlling something from someone, are you changing the quality of the power, stopping it from working, or giving your own powers to it?
No, just because you can improve, weaken, or malfunction their powers, does that mean their powers is your powers? Of course not.
Its like how a normal human modifies a robot's powers since the powers the cyborg has cannot be learned by any human due to possessing the right physical capabilities that they alone can use.
No, because then there would be no reason to control it in the first place and is the literal opposite of that.
No, because how would just giving your powers to someone somehow grant auto-access to all of their powers from them in any way, shape or form? It's like donating your power to someone which some characters use this method to heal them and somehow by doing this, they can also control their powers? Just what? No, definitely not related to that in the slightest.
@The God Of Procrastination So if a normal human can change the function of the robot they created, does that also mean the human can do all the physically impossible things that only the robot can do then?
I mean like Hansode Shiranui or Cure Scarlet. Doing those things yourself is a seperate power, we call Power Mimicry. I believe that you are talking about cases where power is treated like a substance, can you confirm that before we proceed?
If they get whatever tech the robot uses to do that (maybe they make it using the same knowledge with which they modified it), and then use it themselves, then they can.
So I guess that would make it somehow perfectly acceptable give all characters "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if there are cases where they only have 1 type of this power then. It shouldn't take to long to see the problem in this.
We already do this and it's not seen as a problem. You don't need superhuman lifting strength to get Superhuman Physical Characteristics lifted. And regardless, your suggestion would go under Weapon Mastery, where Superhuman Marksmanship fits perfectly. As I said earlier, you don't need mastery over all weapons to have Weapon Mastery.
So if you controlling something from someone, are you changing the quality of the power, stopping it from working, or giving your own powers to it?
Yeah. You could do all of those things.
No, just because you can improve, weaken, or malfunction their powers, does that mean their powers is your powers? Of course not.
This sounds true but I don't see the point.
Its like how a normal human modifies a robot's powers since the powers the cyborg has cannot be learned by any human due to possessing the right physical capabilities that they alone can use.
No, because then there would be no reason to control it in the first place and is the literal opposite of that.
I don't understand what this response and comparison means.
No, because how would just giving your powers to someone somehow grant auto-access to all of their powers from them in any way, shape or form? It's like donating your power to someone which some characters use this method to heal them and somehow by doing this, they can also control their powers? Just what? No, definitely not related to that in the slightest.
Giving your powers to someone wouldn't grant auto-access to their powers unless the verse specified it worked that way, sure. I don't understand what's not related to what, and am having a hard time understanding what parts of my post you're responding to, or if you're even responding to mine.
@Agnaa Never said it like that, my explanation is intended to mean that you can't automatically get "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if you have a singular type of power that falls under it. So if you only have "Superhuman Strength" and that's it, then only that gets mentioned on the profile & not the category itself of where its found. Weapon Mastery is just having full knowledge about the weapon and how to use said weapon (either just one or several of them) in a variety of ways, never said you need to master all weapons to have that.
As for Superhuman Mark...actually, scratch that. I shouldn't even be naming it "Marksmanship" if it's mainly referring to ranged guns, no wonder it sounds very confusing for me explain that this entire time, so I'm going to use the term "Accuracy" instead of "Marksmanship" in general instead so I can explain this more better. It's more preferred this way.
Other than that, I think I begin to now understand your point about Marksmanship being a part of Weapon Mastery (which only refers to guns since you can't scope/aim from long distances away with melee weapons). As for Supernatural Accuracy, which involves both using objects as projectiles & abilities that can be used like projectiles and based on the character's accuracy of successfully hitting the target using 3 of the 5 senses (and yes, including ESP in some cases but you already knew that) to do this, even though that could be related to Weapon Mastery in a way, that type of accuracy would be specifically called Marksmanship for a specific group of weapons. In a way, I guess you can say that this would fall under Enhanced Senses.
No, you cannot as that requires a few extra steps and by a few extra steps, I mean having extra abilities that you need to have other than Power Manipulation alone. Changing how something works does not automatically mean you have control over it.
@Muchacho It would also be called Yin-Yang Manipulation and that's if we have it on the wiki but we don't yet. Also, read my response to @Udlmaster about duality/yin-yang manipulation.
Anyways, I have a response for you about one of things you mentioned earlier:
That's called Air Jumping (also ability we need to have) & infinite air jumping would fall under psuedo-flight. As for the other ability you mentioned, that's Platform Creation.
@Udlmaster Duality/Yin-Yang Manipulation doesn't require you to affect conceptual dualities, so no it won't fall under that power.
If a character just has good aim, then you could do that sort of Weapon Mastery thing that you explained. Some characters have "Expert swordsman" listed on their profile, so you could write something like "Superhuman Accuracy".
If your definition of "Power Manipulation" is just "changing how powers work" then that would be Power Modification, something we already have a page for.
Marksmanship may always apply for Weapon Mastery using sight but for Superhuman Accuracy, it mainly involves not only using sight but also may include the other 2 senses such as hearing & smell (to know the exact location), which helps with accuracy and ESP, another thing that a lesser, but also regular, form of Weapon Mastery cannot do without this, without supernatural abilities, and without using any other senses besides sight.
Dude, I was clearly saying Power Modification =/= Power Manipulation in that statement and with examples also explaining why they are different things.
If you control powers from someone, then you can only use it against them. Power Manipulation doesn't allow you to change how they work or affect the quality of it without also having Power Modification, a separate power that a character must be mentioned to have first.
Weapon Mastery = a form of intelligence Accuracy = quality of your precision in general
I'd say that precision is done through skill, which is considered intelligence.
Dude, I was clearly saying Power Modification =/= Power Manipulation in that statement and with examples also explaining why they are different things.
And I clearly didn't understand on what basis you were saying that they're different.
If you control powers from someone, then you can only use it against them.
That isn't always true. That's one form of controlling powers.
Power Manipulation doesn't allow you to change how they work or affect the quality of it without also having Power Modification, a separate power that a character must be mentioned to have first.
Oh. I've always heard that sort of thing being called "Power Hijacking" or something like that. That idea's been brought up before, and people were sympathetic to it. Antoniofer suggested renaming Power Modification to Power Manipulation, and making Power Hijacking a subset of that. Both of these ideas make sense to me, but only considering Power Manipulation to be the hijacking part sounds really wack.
@Agnaa Well actually, skill is rather more of ultizing the knowledge you have to perform a natural ability you can be capable of doing using said knowledge than intelligence, which involves how fast you can learn said knowledge in general but I don't want to get into that topic for now.
I mean, with Power Modification, you can make something like regular Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation, make someone's time Manipulation affect time in all 3 parts of an entire timeline, be able to control multiple minds instead of just one at a time (something that most people can't do with just mind control alone if there's cases where they need outside sources to use their abilities to this extent) and etc.
And you're still arguing that Power Manipulation alone can do all of that? Absolutely not in the slightest.
That is the main way of how Power Manipulation usually works, being used against someone. Controlling only your powers is a limitation, letting somone have control over it is Power Bestowal (which not every user can do b/c its a different separate ability), letting someone have control over it by syncing your body with your teammate to do the job for you is Synchronization (also a different separate ability that not every user can do) and etc. that involves a number of forms of Power Manipulation that requires you to also have a different ability that you must be stated and/or shown to have.
Well that's because Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation in a way (unlike Power Modification, which is more different) as that allows you to do this temporarily and can be used at any time once you have access to someone's powers & if you still maintain access to it. So it would be more preferred to have both Power Manipulation and Power Modification separately with their own pages.
Its like Possession, once you take over a body or something that can work like one, you have control over it but you can't make the possessed body any better or worse than it already is b/c the physical capabilities of the possessed body varies as it could either work in your benefit or give you more limitations than you would've had without it.