He absorbs, quit a cheaty lot of times actually. And why the armor would mean anything of his fighting style?
She can avoid the attacks, cool. Stark throuws homing attacks, energy drains her from the kinectic, thermal, electrical, magnetic, radiant, radiactive, nuclear, acoustic energy from her attacks (Everything from her). Or just nullify all previous with Zero-Point energy.
Stark resist AZ. While he can't "absorb" the missiles themselves, he can suck their kinetic and thermal energy.
Oh, and before anyone bring it up, Samus's AP advantage is useless once IM absorbs energy and/or stat amp.
I wonder how can you suck a AZ body's thermal energy, i mean, its 0K temperature, there isn't thermal energy to begin with, its 0, AZ attacks are weird but 0K (pun intended), as its fiction... Also, can an AZ item have kinetic energy? If its moving, its because it got momentum from something, if it recieved a force, then it recieved energy, so it should be higher than AZ, AZ projectiles are a contraction just by the mere concept, well idk why im questioning fiction logic xD.
Ill wait for a vote as SomebodyData has something to say.
Yeah, but in comparsion to every time he hasn't used absorption, the difference is rather massive. This armor was explicitly made with the idea of interstellar combat and was modified accordingly, so I would assume fighting style would change.
I never mentioned avoiding them? Though she does have sensemove, which has worked on homing attacks before. And she also has absorption with her Charge Beam, so its not really anything to be using as an argument.
I mean, PIS only goes so far, especially for a character with a decades long comic existence. Considering he has been defeated in the past, the 'other options doesn't really work here', not to mention actively proves the point that he doesn't use absorption all that often.
If he uses the same style (which is unlikely, since each suit has its own advantages and abilities), then that means I literally have every single fight he's had with the suit and not using absorption as a point. It's kinda a counter argument.
But there are no 4-Bs here, for that level of absorption to be remotely useful it would require something that level. For the sake of this battle, its just absorption.
The 4-B characters have always held back against Tony and would have stomped him if they were actually serious. Also, Wave Beam isn't ordinary electrical energy. It's basically a weaponized FM Radio that phases through objects; something Tony is only going to have 9-A durability against. Having the ability to absorb electromagnetic energy won't give you the ability to absorb Wave Beam. It's like Mega Man (Star Force)'s level of hax. And it's stacked with Ice Beam, thus bypassing Tony's resistance to AZ. Samus also has another obscure attack called "Speed Echoes". Whenever she used Shinespark, the afterimages she produces act on their own, fly towards the targets while phasing through all solid objects.
You guys do know that with the massive AP advantage Samus has on top of her scan visor letting her know ahead of time that Iron Man can potentially absorb her energy shots, she just needs to fire homing missiles at him and he'd be dead right? Especially considering he doesn't seem to absorb explosions with his tech that can all oneshot him.
Glass+ Don't you realize that Tony is able to absorb KE from beings of higher tier than him?
And is not just the overpowered energy absorption, but zero-point energy (which is quantum level) is going to nullify anyform of attack that relies on energy (being physical or a projectile). On top of the that Samus is not the only one on this match that scan their opponent's strength, abilities, and skill. A mere glance of Tony will tell him about Samus and what he has to do.
DDM+ No, Samus is not bypassing Tony's resistance to AZ, her ice is just near AZ.
DS+ Yes, his fighting barely changes through armors, only difference would be classic tight suits that had limitations, the special armor such as busters that actually change his fighting style. But Deep Space just adds Warp Speed that's it.
And what you assume is his fighting style would, in a hypothetical fight in which he is free of the pis of the writers? Straight on tank every attack without using his intelligence, abilities and resources to counter it?
Yes, the absorption is important because has been able absorb attacks from being way stronger than Samus to amp himself. Any atemp from Samus is just going to power up IM's stats all the time. Eventually she will not be able to do jack to him, he will beat her with pure strength.
And let me tell you, Energy Absorption is just one many issues that Samus has to deal/abilities that Tony can throw at her.
@Newendigo, She will and it doesn't even have to reach AZ. It just needs to phase through his armor which it will. Iron Man without his suit only has 9-A durability. FM Radio isn't radiation in the traditional sense and Samus' Wave Beam while a weaponized FM Radio is not an ordinary FM Radio. It's transferable Data. It's also phased through armor and worked on characters who otherwise resist radiation and absorb energy; don't see anything that makes Iron Man different. No one exaggerated the ability and the only one being exaggerated is Iron Man.
If he can passively absorb kinetic energy, why does he often get his ass kicked by characters less than High 6-A. Plus, Samus could absorb Iron Man's life energy with her grapple beam. Also, SomebodyData said Iron Man needs to activate his absorption which he doesn't lead with. And yeah, one Super Missile would simply kill Iron Man.
How does he when his model 8 armor only has High 7-A durability? We don't even have a key for unarmored Iron Man. But it's common knowledge unarmored Iron Man is below Captain America. Plus he doesn't resist anything unarmored.
Glass+ Explotions release kinetic, thermal, and radiant energy, on top of generating shochwaves, and four are absorbed by Iron Man.
DDM+ The blast is not going to phase the armor, FM Radio are just a way radio waves are used, and "being transferable data" is complety redundant if the ability still follows the same mechanics. Which are those supposed chars that resist and absorb radiation? Specifically for this key.
Never said that he passively absorbed KE, read my comment again. And is fully and utterly in-character for him to use energy absorption, I don't know why SD keeps bringing the point.
I'm not exaggerating anything, I'm using what IM has shown to do at this.
Schnee+ Tony lacks extremis in this key, but he has the upgraded Extremis 3.0 in Model 50 (I think he has normal extremis in Hulkbuster).
Tony used Extremis virus to literally power up himself higher leves because of the threat that Mallen was imposing.
Not sure I can agree with the scaling, since some previous suits have explicitly been shown superior to newer suits in some facets (Like AP, or speciality like invisibility)
But regardless, my argument is that she has every (relevant) ability that he has at that point, even if his energy absorption cap is higher, it really isn't relevant. Not to mention, like I've said quite a few times, its not in -character to go with absorption right off the bat. And I've actually brought an example.
And again, PIS is for a few off occurances, you are quite literally stating that 90% of his fights (ie the times that he didn't start or use absorption) are PIS. That, is just his fighting style, and unless you can prove it is his fighting style to absorb often in a battle, its not an acceptable point.
Samus has been able to absorb / redirect shots from low 4-C DS, trust me its not going to be a competition where they reach either gaps. So its irrelevant.
And honestly, the only reason Iron Man has ever defeated 4-B beings without a 4-B suit is simply cause said character simply let Iron Man win. Literally every "Stronger" characters in all of Marvel and DC does that against every "Weaker" character. Not to mention people could use the argument of saying Iron Man regularly struggles against people like Whiplash (Marvel Comics) as an argument by that logic. Samus' grapple beam is basically a far superior version of that in every way.
And yeah, all of Iron Man's suits are completely different from each other and. That hax that some of his suits have do not carry over to every other suit. So unless his High 6-A suit has explicantly been shown absorption on that level, it's not meaningful if other suits do it.
Samus also counters Iron Man's energy absorption with her own and also has life energy absorption like she does in Samus Returns. She also has experience dealing with SA-X, both of whom have energy absorption due to being literal duplicates. Also, it looks like only Iron Man's last 4-B key resists intangible attacks, so Wave Beam still bypasses it. There was also no counter argument against Speed echoes.
DDM+ The Iron Man armors are scaled to each, Deep Space armor doesn't need to have feats of said level of absorption when its already a far superior model of other armors, that is basic power scaling. And again no, the only that change something are the Stealths, The Busters, and maybe the Shapeshiftes, everything else it just Add-Ons standard IM armors.
Also, again no, Wave Beam is resisted, absorbed and/or nullfifed. Going by the example of FM Radio, it's qualities are pretty pathetic.
DS+ You gave one example? I just gave six examples of him using EA (Let's call it EA) in battle in one of my comments. Heck even if we go with the "not starting move" EA is either passive or though based, depending of the energy it itself (Energy Forcefields also absorb energy, and they are automatic), like I said in one of my first comments.
And as I said before (Again), energy absorption is just one problem, zero-point energy nullifies anything that Samus that relies on energy, and if the Iron Legion is summoned, Samy is done for as she is going to be facing over 45 Iron Men that have the same EA. And before you say "but is part of his combat style"; yes it is specially against enemies that are too strong, and if even if not, we are talking about the one of the most intelligent and experienced Avengers, he just has to scan Samus once to know deal.
Now, tell me what is Iron Man fighting style, because you keep repeating those words but it seems you don't even know it, like yeah "no EA", but aside from that what is his full mindset, going by your pure assumptions?
Before I go to sleep (I'm kidding) I will some counter some points of Medeus that I missed
Speed Echoes: The profile doesn't mention the technique in the movement system section, on top of that DDM explanation is weird; afterimages are just blurs that happen when an object/person moves at speeds that a viewer can't properly analyze. "Acting on thei own, flying around, chasing and passing through targets" needs a scan or video to elaborate in that.
Life-Drain: Didn't played Samus Return remake, but as far I'm concerned for spoilers, Samus is able drain life force from enemies because those creatures of said planet have a specific energy that the Aeon abilities uses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but until then Tony should not be in harm.
Again, it's not a normal FM Radio; FM Radios normally don't even damage things. It's an intangible attack that phases through "all sorts of conventional and non-conventional barriers". It's the same type of stuff Mega Man (Star Force) has. It also cannot be absorbed even by those who absorb the same type of energy.
Speed echoes was another ability mentioned on another thread and here's an example of it. And I already mentioned Speed Echoes aren't like normal blurs, they also function like super powerful homing attacks. Basically, she creates FM'ians to attack. And according to some information from a wiki Hunter linked, it's her most damaging attack.
And no, "that's specific limits fallacy." It would be the same thing as saying Iron Man's EA only works on Asgardians. She's specifically able to absorb life energy from any type of creature and convert it into her own energy; whether it be Aeon or her own life energy. She can also convert it into digital data and use that same data for digital materialization. She can also absorb energy from things she doesn't quite damage in gameplay, and she automatically absorbs any damage she gives. It's rather passive.
Dragon+ Yeah its weaponized FMR, FM Radio is the problem, the beam won't increase the quality of the said type of energy. Tony resisted blasts of Gamma rays, absorbed large amounts of Gamma energy, and is even able to nullify Gamma Radiation. Say it can pass all sorts of conventional and unconventional is a huge claim that needs backup feats.
Oh, and you have yet to prove 1) Those characters that absorb/resist said attacks. And 2) Prove that those goons have better versions than IM's.
Sorry for my lack of good devices, but I think to link a YT video. I tried on a minilaptop and is lagged, I tried on a a phone and is also lagged.
But if an ability is specifically stated to work on a certain thing why would assume otherwise without reason? This is not the same as "Master sword only for Ganon". It works inverse. Is like say that White Diamond can mindhax beings are not gems, that dragon slayer/holy weapons (From any generic fantasy) can induce extra damage against non-dragonic/demonic dudes, and that the most basic soul hax can affect souless beings. Did I explained myself?
Hold on, isn't resistance towards intangible attacks on his last key anyways?
I think he's refering to energy orbs Samus gets by killing normal enemies, not the bits of Aeion.
Back to your post against mine:
I don't have scans on me, so I'm literally gonna have to get random fight scenes from his fights and mention a few notable ones:
The original fight that damaged his Mark 45 (This armor) and by extension most of his fights as part of the GotG (Not sure about the exact number), his fight with Captain Marvel in Civil War 2, this random one, another one, his fight with the Superior Iron Man (Both the AI and him didn't use Absorption much if at all), the fight with Rescue, literally everytime he's fought the Hulk (including "Hulkling" foes like in Superior Iron Man, ie Original Sin, World War Hulk, Crash and Burn), my knowledge of Marvel comics really only perminates with Spiderman (Well I skipped a few of Dan Slott's run) so I can't really comment much more, but those are just some notable ones. Give me a while and I can comment more.
To be honest, I agree with Iron legion (Mostly because the number of times he's overwhelmed on Earth is much smaller). Issue is I'm not sure they would arrive in time, and some of the earlier incarnations can be easily hacked by Samus.
As for Iron Man's fighting style, generally repulsor rays (earlier incarnations use h2h more often didn't they?). Of course my understanding with Iron Man is mostly thru the bigger events and when he's in a Spiderman comic, so I'm probably wrong. But six times he's used Absorption? With a character whose spanned decades amoung multiple runs and teams? You would need a lot more to even remotely imply that Absorption is the case.
He does different things with preperation and previous experience of course, but that's not the case here.
Btw, grace stopped the moment more people started voting for Samus.
@ABoogie, it looks like he voted for Samus twice at least as far as posts on this thread are concerned. And looking at his comment history, he's said nothing different ever since.
Also, I forgot to mention that some of Iron Man's power ups could be stolen by Samus' Grapple Beam such as the Zero-Point and she could absorb energy using it. Also, looking at Iron Man's energy absorption again, he doesn't "absorb all of it and immediately becomes as strong as the outside source", he generally uses it to restore stamina.
Resist =/= Immune. And Samus deals with energy absorbers regularly; including SA-X who is a clone of herself. And absorbing energy only slightly increases his power, it doesn't give him an instant 20x multiplier or some crap. Samus consistently steals data based power ups with her Grapple Beam, even if it isn't physical. Iron Man also resists electric energy absorption, but not life energy absorption.
@Migue / Newendigo Her charge beam absorbs / redirects energy attacks, he may be resist to absorption but once his beams are out there, its fair game.
I'll be waiting for your counterargument then, but I'm telling you, I find it hard to believe you'll be able to counter twice as many showings that lead with him using his energy projection rather than absorption, all of them literally from the top of my head.
@DDM not sure I've ever heard of Samus stealing data via Grapple Beam before.
Yeah, but something common is Vs threads is that you have to bypass certain resistance with something better, and Samus has yet to shown an energy drain greater than Ultron.
Absorbing energy increase his strenth massively, he went from struggling against Jonny Storm to damage him with his own attacks, nearly K.Os Silver Surfer after sucking him in his Model 5, blasted through a mountain after taping power from Storm and Spectrum with his Model 4, equally fought a madded Thor after sucking Mjolnir and Magneto after drawing power from literally a whole planet.
"Data based power ups", that is a pretty bad comparition to ZPE, is not that is non-physical, read wikipedia's article to get a better understand of why Samus has no way to get around ZPE.
@SD, Dark Samus/Metroid Prime stole the Phazon Suit via after copying Samus' DNA. The Suits are data power ups that connect to her essence and mind. If Dark Samus appears to have learned that ability from Samus, it would imply Samus could do that.
@Newendigo But does Ultron absorb life/spirit energy? Data has mentioned that she was able to absorb and rebound energy attacks from At least Low 4-C characters, so Iron Man's increase in power won't be an issue either way. Not to mention that Phazon is absurdly broken levels of hax; something not even "Entities who see all time and space and exist outside of Space-Time" where able to deal with.
A lot of those other feats of Iron Man dealing with Tier 5 or above characters are outliers/PIS. Especially the ones regarding Thor who was obviously holding back given that even with Iron Man's best suits, it's implied Thor could effortlessly oneshot Iron Man if he was 100% serious. And also, the point was that Iron Man still has data within his suit that allows him to generate the ZPE Forcefield to begin with.
Um, at extreme risk of being a necro (and since it won't make a difference to the outcome anyway) I would just like to point out a couple of things I think were glossed over or misstated. First, I don't think Samus can absorb power-ups or abilities specifically through her grappling beam. I also don't think Tony's suit has a particularly good defense against the grapple voltage. His ZPE field would keep it from reaching his armor, but it would still be draining the power generating the shield. I don't know as much about Iron Man as Metroid, so I don't know if Tony's power source is infinite, but if it isn't that might be a weak point to (eventually) exploit.
However, the bigger point I wanted to bring up is that Samus actually has a hard counter to both his energy absorption and ZPE: she can spam mini-black holes and reality breaking annihilation reactions (unless she's not allowed her MP2 gear in the fight). A ZPE field is incredibly strong, and functions on a quantum level, but both of those weapons break down the laws of physics. Black holes are well known, the laws of space and time collapse at a point of infinite gravity. ZPE can't nullify the effect because gravity isn't energy, it's a mechanism of physical mass. Essentially, since ZPE can't remove the mass of physical object, it can't nullify a black hole, as it's a physical object.
The Annihilator beam might be enough to get past the shield on its own, seeing as how it's an annihilation reaction that uses energy fragments from different dimensions ("light energy and dark energy") as well as/instead of matter and anti-matter in its reaction. Even if the beam itself can't bypass the ZPE field, the Sonic Boom (I always hated the name, I think the listing here calls it the disrupter? much better, imo) would. It creates a tear in space-time, causing extreme damage to anything in the vicinity. That's some pretty serious hax as far as durability bypass goes. It doesn't really matter what Tony is using to protect himself: his molecular structure is just as vulnerable as everything else in the universe when something tears away at the fundamental principals holding it together.
So, maybe Tony has a way of survivng those, I don't know, but as far as I can tell the battle should end with Tony's molecules going through an estrangement of one kind or another.
Again, sorry for the necro. I will go a self-flagellate for my sins and think upon what I've done.
In my defense, I did read the OP and went to double check on Samus' profile. While I knew exactly where the line was drawn for suits, I wasn't clear as to beams. Since the Grapple Voltage had been mentioned previously by DarkDragonMedeus (though not by name, just by description when talking about the Grappling Beam), I guess I kind of assumed weapons were less restricted or something, since it didn't specifically mention any beams or specific games' power-ups as off the table, and that was certainly my mistake. I probably did miss someone pointing out that the Grappling Beam/Grapple Voltage thing wasn't correct as well.
I am but a wee fanboy, trying to go from lurking (and caring only about 2-3 characters) to something resembling participation; most of the time I just like to read the profiles and marvel at how much work has been put into everything. I rarely read the actual vs threads because, well, most of them that I do click on are 60% "bump"s, 10% actual reasoning, and 30% people saying "FRA." I don't mean that to sound as condescending as I'm sure it does, but between that seeming lack of real debate and the amount of unique terminology and style unique to vs battles, and this wiki in particular, has been pretty intimidating.
I do appreciate the reply, though, regardless of circumstances. It would have been easier to ignore my reply, let it stay dead, and not help me learn to read more carefully/make sure I have a better understanding of the parameters before I open my ignorant mouth.