FANDOM


  • Schnee One
    Schnee One closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    20:00, July 31, 2019
    • Speed Equal
    • Pre Headshot Accel
    • Low 7-B Esdeath
    • SBA

    Accelerator:

    Esdeath: 7 (Triforce, Schnee, PaulFrank, Sins of Man, Cal Howard, Ecstasy, Ionliosite)

    Inconclusive:

    AcceleratorPreheadshot
    Esdeath
      Loading editor
    • Bless you sir

      Okay so Esdeath is Low 7B to Accelerators baseline 7B so he has AP by a minimal margin, he's also significantly smarter has better combat expirience, and basically everything Esdeath can do that isn't time Stop gets reflected.

      Issue is, Esdeath has a good chance of attempting to time Stop before Accel gets serious. As this version jobs.

        Loading editor
    • Isn't that literally a last resort though? By the time she likely tries to pull that card out he'd have touched her and imploded her organs and nerves from inside out. Unless she for some reason does it immediately, it's highly in Accel's favor since OT3 Accel tends to rush people as an intimidation tactic if they do not back down like touma did, so Esdeath will likely trigger the 'death train'. 

        Loading editor
    • Define Last resort because she uses it whenever she's about to get hit.

        Loading editor
    • It seems to imply it's an Ultimate Trump card and from what I know, would she really waste that immediately? It has major negative draw backs as well so if she doesn't hit vitals immediately, Accelerator can likely patch up any holes she tries to put in him in that time-stop depending on the time frame of it and she'd be drained.  Not to mention even a single vector rock can likely take out her entire organs as well, so he doesn't even specifically need to touch her. 

        Loading editor
    • Without vectors, Accel has 9-C dura. Pretty sure any attack Esdeath does (with TimeStop) would basically obliterate Accel

        Loading editor
    • Seems pretty cheap to use Accels form that doesn't try.

        Loading editor
    • Seems to be reoccuring theme of using Jobber form now that his current form is too strong. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: It seems to imply it's an Ultimate Trump card and from what I know, would she really waste that immediately? It has major negative draw backs as well so if she doesn't hit vitals immediately, Accelerator can likely patch up any holes she tries to put in him in that time-stop depending on the time frame of it and she'd be drained.  Not to mention even a single vector rock can likely take out her entire organs as well, so he doesn't even specifically need to touch her. 

      Ignoring that a Low 7B attack is going to kill 9C Durability and that Esdeath dmfreezes her opponents as well

      Esdeath isn't heavily drained when she uses it, she kinda fought off Night Raid after time stopping

      And no, Esdeath isn't going to sit there and take a hit from Accelerator, she's a Sadist, not an idiot.

        Loading editor
    • If she's able to assess that a wandering vector rock is going to turn her into swish cheese or a single tap of a finger will turn her inside out, and knows Accel's threat level then yeah, she probably would time stop and win.  Also pre-accel has like no applicable battle experience. Half of the 10k clone fights were just them shooting him and him standing still, it's why he got CQC'd by Touma so hard. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator literally kicking a vector rock towards her isn't going to kill her, Accelerator is baseline 7B.

      The finger will kill her, but she never goes CQC unless forced to she uses range.

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath doesn't use Mahapadma immediately though. She uses it sparingly, from what I remember.

        Loading editor
    • A single vector rock is stated to be able to tear straight through Curtana Empowered Elizard guts which is Archangel tier at fully power and his vectors don't magically get stronger from Pre to Post. I'm still not sure why the key's aren't scaled to eachother since his powers don't work that way, but whatever. 

        Loading editor
    • TIHYDDWBE wrote: Esdeath doesn't use Mahapadma immediately though. She uses it sparingly, from what I remember.

      Mostly correct, she doesn't use it unless absolutely necessary, being hit by a dude who has done nothing but reflect literally every attack at her calls for it.

      @Accelerate Yeah I feel you, but that's how the site works.

        Loading editor
    • Not gunna lie, Accelerator having a definable AP is odd. His attacks borrow energy from other sources always.

      And the other half of the time he ignores durability.

      @Accelerate420 Wow that still didn't get done. If I recall it was accepted but nobody could do anything because it's locked and/or were too busy to apply it.

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator's abilities don't really have a 'limit' so much so as the story demands he doesn't kill someone. He has shown some caps but half of the time he's stress testing/not wanting to literally destroy the entire city. Like with Migrates and the Windowless Building, plus he's able to magnify vectors now as well so there's nothing stopping him from magnifying the kinetic energy he put into a rock by x100000 except for plot. But outlier/hyperbole I guess, it's also stated he uses just as much as he needs to to end a fight which means we haven't seen a cap limit yet truly.  Yeah, it doesn't help that his vectors are invisible to begin with. Theoretically he should be able to punch hard enough to emplode the universe since he can magnify what is already there, but clearly we'll never see that happen. Anyways, off topic.  Esdeath's win con is an instant win, but what reasons do we have to believe she'll do it immediately just because some attacks get reflected? As he continues to close the distance he'd likely be able to get a single scrape and it's game over. It depends on her conditions for doing it. 

        Loading editor
    • TIHYDDWBE wrote: Seems pretty cheap to use Accels form that doesn't try.

      They don't like that their fav char gets murdered by a serious Accel.

        Loading editor
    • Also, even tho Accel is a jobber, he still cripples his opponents. And theres the fact that he can use info analysis by touching her.

        Loading editor
    • I'm not implying that Esdeath will immediately do it, Im implying she does it the moment Accelerator really pressures.

      When Esdeath is inevitably pushed into a corner with her own attacks, which she absolutely will since Accelerator's reflection is well beyond her ability, that's when she's going to feel pressured.

      For some examples, when Esdeath is about to get shot by Mine and could not dodge, she stopped

      When Esdeath is about to be hit by Susanoo, she stops.

      Akame, She stops

      Etc.

      It's a situation of "Will Accelerator get serious before Esdeath stops time"

      Also worth taking to consideration, Accelerator loves to enjoy a spectacle, Esdeath causing a bunch of ice sculptures to bring him down and him reflecting it? He's going to sit back and enjoy it.

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath knew about Susanoo and Mine's power. The same applies for when she was fighting Akame. She doesn't know Accel and he is just a weird looking kid without any equipment. She wouldn't really take him serious unless he uses some strong attack.

        Loading editor
    • If she doesn't back down after the first few reflections he's likely to just say 'screw it' and rush her immediately. 

        Loading editor
    • <Knew about Susanoo

      Lolwut? She literally met Susanoo in that fight.

        Loading editor
    • With Najenda using him? She knew he had something.

        Loading editor
    • Najenda is kinda fodder tho.

      Esdeath trashed her even when she wasn't injured.

        Loading editor
    • I agree with Schnee. It's true that Mahapadma tires her out, but it's not as much as people assume, as she fought Akame right after using it. She tends to use it if she's cornered (like when she used it to destroy Susanoo in the fight when Night Raid had to kill an important person) or if she cannot do anything else. It's not like she cannot fight anymore if she uses it.

      She'll probably start with Ice range spam, Accel deflects everything, attacks her, Esdeath protects herself with Ice, Ice shatters or gets badly damaged due to AP gap, Esdeath realizes she's cornered, uses timestop and kills Accel

      Voting Esdeath

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath FRA for now.

        Loading editor
    • If she doesn't get damaged by her own ice being reflected at her guts, ya know

        Loading editor
    • >Ice Shatters and gets badly damaged due to AP gap


      If he's literally damaging her himself the gap is irrelevant at that point, she's turned inside out. 

        Loading editor
    • If she gets damaged, she'll stop time to prevent the injury from getting too grave. That's exactly what she did when Akame slashed her arm.

        Loading editor
    • Why would she die because of him touching an ice shield?

        Loading editor
    • Because he launches the debris while destroying the shield directly in front of her.

        Loading editor
    • Also, Esdeath can shatter her ice by just thinking, just like she can control it.

      She did it with her Ice cavalry out of the top of my head, and I remember her doing it other times. Reflecting Esdeath's Ice is out of question.

        Loading editor
    • <Launching Debris

      You are literally asking for Esdeath to time Stop unless you're honestly saying she will just sit there and die.

        Loading editor
    • Like she is totally expecting a weird kid to just explode her shield out of nowhere without anything that resembles a Teigu.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think her stopping time the moment Accel touches her will do anything. It may prevent her from immediately exploding but the moment she comes out of Time-stop the formula is already inputted into her body and she'd explode. 

        Loading editor
    • Thinks the person that has nothing that resembles a Teigu.

      Given that they can be belts, and that half of them were lost to history, Esdeath's not going to let her guard down. Also, if Chelsea can be an assassin, she's not going to underestimate Accel.

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: I don't think her stopping time the moment Accel touches her will do anything. It may prevent her from immediately exploding but the moment she comes out of Time-stop the formula is already inputted into her body and she'd explode. 

      Accel has no way of getting closer to Esdeath without using his vector powers, which would alert Esdeath and use Timestop to manage to hit him.

        Loading editor
    • TriforcePower1 wrote:

      Accelerate420 wrote: I don't think her stopping time the moment Accel touches her will do anything. It may prevent her from immediately exploding but the moment she comes out of Time-stop the formula is already inputted into her body and she'd explode. 

      Accel has no way of getting closer to Esdeath without using his vector powers, which would alert Esdeath and use Timestop to manage to hit him.

      His vectors are invisible to begin with. How would it alert her? She'd think he's just kicking really strong. She'd have no idea a touch from him, even a scrape, would flatline her entire nervous and organs system. 

        Loading editor
    • Alternatively, he can snipe her or blitz her via speed amping or lettimg her try a meelee attack.

        Loading editor
    • I keep forgetting vectors are speed amps since he's still just a regular human. So in that respect I don't think she's reacting to an immediate bowl-dozing vector change if the speed is equal. 

        Loading editor
    • I thought Accels speed amps made him Mach 292

      Also sniping in a speed equal fight is just a no

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath will use her ranged ice spam. If Accel blocks them in any way and gets dangerously close, Esdeath will just use timestop as she's not letting a guy who can somehow block or deflect all of her attacks close to her.

        Loading editor
    • His speed amp should be Sub-rev since vectors don't just magically power-up, no matter his form. Especially in the form where he has absurdly more calc power. 

        Loading editor
    • (Sigh) Accelerators file is really that garbage?

        Loading editor
    • My theory is people just want to keep the jobber form where it is so people can have easy time-stop win matches and the like. 

        Loading editor
    • It still needs some adjustments. Black wings, White Wings and Platinum Wings are transformations that he can access at will, no need for other keys.

      It still lacks information analysis (He can literally read what something is and its composition by analysing vectors) too.

        Loading editor
    • That's bullshit. Hell I didn't agree with the Post Headshot or High 6C keys being removed either.

        Loading editor
    • It also lacks gravity and light manipulation too, considering he can influence both if he wants too, which has been said in like early OT even. There's really nothing stopping him from influencing the gravity vectors of Earth since he needs to consciously allow gravity through his filter. 

        Loading editor
    • Just add the tier to a key in the Post-HS form. Also, the wings are legitly power ups, being stated to be so. Tho its more like dura/ap for his body and more calcing power/range for his vector hax.

        Loading editor
    • Someone should probably bump that old thread to scale Pre injury to post injury. Wherever it is. Lost to time.

        Loading editor
    • Bumped it. 

        Loading editor
    • TIHYDDWBE wrote:
      Someone should probably bump that old thread to scale Pre injury to post injury. Wherever it is. Lost to time.

      I don't think we had a thread like that, the other was about the keys, which turned into a discussion about Pre and Post keys and the thread itself became very messy as well. I can do a new thread though with the scaling of Pre and Post headshot to each other.

      Accel's profile needs a lot of updating to be quite honest, probably other profiles as well. Personally there are a couple of things that I have an issue with but I will discuss those later.

      Anyway about this actual thread. I haven't been convinced that Esdeath would win but I'm willing to wait and see any other arguments before I give my opinion.

        Loading editor
    • Isn't the ability to stop time temperature based ? How would it bypass the reflection field ?

        Loading editor
    • Hers is the ability to literally “freeze” time itself. That’s just flowery language and a strange justification for how Esdeath can stop time.

        Loading editor
    • Tho it has a short duration and strains her. Continuous use can drain her out, tho just  1 or 2 don't

        Loading editor
    • TBF Accel has crap Dura and they're both MHS at least

      It lasts for about 15 seconds, which is long enough.

        Loading editor
    • ^^^

      That won't affect his reflection though.

        Loading editor
    • Since when does Accel Reflect time Stop?

        Loading editor
    • TriforcePower1 wrote:
      Hers is the ability to literally “freeze” time itself. That’s just flowery language and a strange justification for how Esdeath can stop time.

      Considering her teigu gives her ice manipulation it should be related to that, and if it uses that teigu power as medium for the ability, and not some other ability she was born with, it should not be capable of bypassing the field

        Loading editor
    • Schnee one

      I never said that Accel can reflect time stop, so I don't even know where that even came from.

      But his reflection should still work during time stop.

        Loading editor
    • Im pretty sure his reflection doesnt work on timestop 

        Loading editor
    • You said that time Stop won't affect his reflection, I took that as the reflection still working in time stop

        Loading editor
    • No I meant his reflection working during stopped time. He can't reflect time stop itself so he would still be stopped in time but his reflection should still work during stopped time. So basically if she attacked him during stopped time and it's something that is black listed in his vector shield then that should be reflected as his reflection works on a passive/subconscious level and he doesn't even need to know he's being attacked, as seen in OT 3.

      Has she got anything that can normally bypass reflection?

        Loading editor
    • His reflection absolutely would not work during time stop considering it's based on him quickly calculating and reversing the vectors subconsciously it's not a passive forcefield

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777During true time stop reflection would not work as the brain would still need to do the basic formula of x = -x

      in this case tho he should be unaffected by how it works

        Loading editor
    • Its passive tho

        Loading editor
    • it's passive but it still need the brain to work

        Loading editor
    • I know, I was just quoting Paul's comment

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank and Malox

      His reflection is passive so it should most certaintly work. If this was the case then he shouldn't be able to reflect things that he doesn't know about, like the bullet that the Sister clone fired at him during OT 3. 

        Loading editor
    • Its subconscious which is why he can reflect things that he doesn't know about

      During time stop his brain literally doesn't do anything, no synapses fire or anything like that so he cant reflect anything

        Loading editor
    • That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator: I can reflect anything you throw at me, and a single contact from me can kill you

      Time Stop

      Esdeath During the stop:
      Tenoru (1)
        Loading editor
    • It's time stop

      Time doesn't pass

      It takes time to do those subconscious calculations

      It takes time time for synapses to fire within the brain and allow the mind to function

      It takes time for accelerator's vector manip to even work

      It there is no time passing none of those can work so there is no reflection

        Loading editor
    • If it's so excepted that anyone with time stop can defeat Accel, what is the point of this fight? Is this a spite match or something?

        Loading editor
    • Hey dont look at me, it was Schnne who suggested this match

        Loading editor
    • in this case this time stop won't work tho as the medium is temperature/ice manipulation

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: If it's so excepted that anyone with time stop can defeat Accel, what is the point of this fight? Is this a spite match or something?

      Because Esdeath doesnt usually open with time stop iirc since she has a limit on uses

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: in this case this time stop won't work tho as the medium is temperature/ice manipulation

      That was changed a while ago im pretty sure

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: If it's so excepted that anyone with time stop can defeat Accel, what is the point of this fight? Is this a spite match or something?

      Esdeath doesn't lead with time Stop, thus Accelerator has a good chance at winning

      Hell we were even having a back and forth debate on who would win, how is it a Spite match?

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: in this case this time stop won't work tho as the medium is temperature/ice manipulation

      What?

        Loading editor
    • It's literally her ability, the Makahadoma , is a Technique she developed using her teigu (that gives her the ability of ice manipulation), unless she somehow was born with the ability to directly control time and space she has to use it to affect time and space, that medium would be negated by the field as it's not directly controlling it like let's say ZA WORUDO

      it would just not affect accelerator and not reflect the time stop to her

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank 

      That makes more sense, what are her limits and when does she mostly use time stop?

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote:
       

      That makes more sense, what are her limits and when does she mostly use time stop?

      When she is in danger most likely

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      Her time stop is described as her freezing time and space

      The freezing bit is not her literally using ice though

      @scr

      She can only use it once a day because it takes alot of stamina, she usually uses it if in danger or as a last resort iirc

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: Paul Frank 

      That makes more sense, what are her limits and when does she mostly use time stop?

      When she's pushed into a corner.

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:
      @malox

      Her time stop is described as her freezing time and space

      The freezing bit is not her literally using ice though

      exactly she freezes time and space by using her teigu, that teigu power can be affected by the field, so when it would try to freeze the area around accel (time and space around the AIM too) it would just do nothing

        Loading editor
    • She just uses it if she finds it necessary. It strains her but she can still go on fighting normally if she uses it only once.

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      So your saying accelerator deflects her time stop because she freezes it in an area around herself instead of the entire universe

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:
      @malox

      So your saying accelerator deflects her time stop because she freezes it in an area around herself instead of the entire universe

      no, she can even affect the entire universe but time is not same for everything u know that right (aka mass gravity time and space dilation) ? It would just not affect the area around him

      again she is using her teigu powers to affect time and space it's not direct control

        Loading editor
    • EmperorDoom25 wrote:
      Scrlk666777 wrote:
       

      That makes more sense, what are her limits and when does she mostly use time stop?

      When she is in danger most likely

      This might be a problem for her then as she might not realize she's in danger until it's too late. Although that said, this Accel (I'm assuming it's pre headshot), likes to toy with others and take his time, which is probably why tree diagram said that he would defeat Misaka in 128 moves, but really he can defeat her in one, if he really wanted to. 

      Accel is a difficult one in a danger sense as to most, he probably looks quite harmless, unless you know him and his abilities. So for example if he wanted to make her blood explode, she might not realize she's in danger until it's too late. Because let's face it to most, a skinny white haired person, who looks like someone anyone can break in two wouldn't raise the danger alarm bell. 

      She might see him reflecting stuff as dangerous, which is most likely what he would be mostly doing during the fight. Esdeath would be the one attacking and he would just be standing there reflecting her attacks until he got bored. 

      Accel may be his own downfalll in this match. 

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      She literally has time stop on the profile

      Her ability is described as freezing space and time

      The fact that it is a power that she gained from her teigu doesn't change this at all


      Esdeath fra

        Loading editor
    • .... well yes it does, this is no different from a bullet that can stop time, it just uses her teigu power as a medium, it would not work

      any way stomp for accel

        Loading editor
    • She doesn't hit him to stop time or anything though

      She just kinda does it

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:
      She doesn't hit him to stop time or anything though

      She just kinda does it

      she affects time and space using the power of the teigu to freeze space and time, the moment it tries to affect the field to freeze the time and space of accel surrounding AIM it would just be negated and not affect him, while everything else stops apart from her

        Loading editor
    • If her time stops works the way Malox suggested then yeah, this would be a stomp for Accel. 

        Loading editor
    • That’s not how timestop works. While he’s, resistance to extreme cold is enough to resist her timestop, she doesn’t literally freeze time, as it’s metaphorical freezing. Her ice powers are just advanced to extend to a metaphorical level.

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote: That’s not how timestop works. While he’s, resistance to extreme cold is enough to resist her timestop, she doesn’t literally freeze time, as it’s metaphorical freezing. Her ice powers are just advanced to extend to a metaphorical level.

      It isn't anymore.

        Loading editor
    • Even better then

        Loading editor
    • resistance has nothing to do with this tho, it's just the medium, unless the teigu power changed to time and space manipulation, the ability is just an application that stops time, but it still requires the teigu power as a medium

      the difference is important as it's the same difference between having an ability that let u always win and an ability that creates a situation where u always win

        Loading editor
    • So you're telling me

      That even though she has the ability to stop time in space

      She can also use her Teigu as ice manipulation

      So it won't work

      Malox, stop, literally no one agrees with you on this.

        Loading editor
    • I’ll wait for further input, cause I’d say Esdeath easily takes this cause this version of Accelerator isn’t exactly serious from the get-go, but the discussion regarding Time Stop is still a thing...at least from what I came upon so far.

        Loading editor
    • Schnee One wrote:
      So you're telling me

      That even though she has the ability to stop time in space

      She can also use her Teigu as ice manipulation

      So it won't work

      Malox, stop, literally no one agrees with you on this.

      1 she has a teigu that as ice manipulation

      2 that ability lets her stop time

      We are clear on this right ?

        Loading editor
    • By that logic, Dio can stop time with his stand

      But he can also punch with it

      So his time stop fails

      Or

      Reinhard can use his spear as an instant hit 1-A deleting attack

      But he can also smack people with it normally so it fails

        Loading editor
    • guys u are purposely miss interpreting the argument

      i thought playing the strawman was not allowed here

        Loading editor
    • Then make it better, because it's ridiculous.

        Loading editor
    • ok respond to my question so u can understand

      does her ability to stop time comes as a consequence of her using the teigu that lets her manipulate ice/temperature ?

        Loading editor
    • In a way yes but her time stop has nothing to do with ice

        Loading editor
    • Yes it is,

        Loading editor
    • we are running in circle, does it come from the teigu that manipulates ice yes or no ?

        Loading editor
    • I see what you're trying to get at

      Yes it comes from the same power source

      No it has nothing to do with ice

        Loading editor
    • Yes, but it has nothing to do with it.

        Loading editor
    • "Yes, but it has nothing to do with it "



      so u are arguing the teigu has both ice manipulation and direct space-time manipulation ?

        Loading editor
    • Yes.

        Loading editor
    • Well ok can i ask u why ? Considering i did read the manga from when it was out and it was stated it only had ice manipulation ?

        Loading editor
    • Because Ice Manipulation and Time Stop are very obviously unrelated abilities unless you honestly think they're the same because she can do both.

        Loading editor
    • First straw man now black or white loaded answer and false cause

      her ability to stop time comes from her ability to manipulates ice, to the point she can affect space and time, it was never stated to have other abilities

      in fact there is no space and time manipulation in her profile

        Loading editor
    • I don't even know what that first sentence meant, it's also not a straw man as that's literally what you're arguing,

      Yes, now how can Accelerator reflect Ice that freezes space time?

      Time Stop is on her file.

        Loading editor
    • Yes accel can’t be affected by ice that freeze time, same reason he can deflect bullet that stop time

      Yes TIME STOP is on the profile

        Loading editor
    • Does the attack have a vector? If so preheadshot Accel would most likely be unaffected. Does Esdeath freeze time for everything all at once or does the ability radiate out with her at the center? Assuming that the time stop counts as something like an Esper power that Accelerator would be able to understand the vectors of since preheadshot Accel didn’t know anything about magic.

        Loading editor
    • You seem to be misinterpreting how her time stop works

      She isn't actually using ice to stop time

      She isn't hitting time with her ice, she isn't hitting someone with ice to time stop them

      She is stopping time using the same powersource as her ice powers that is the only connection

        Loading editor
    • Spread out or not it still uses a medium, if the medium gets negated there is no effect

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: Yes accel can’t be affected by ice that freeze time, same reason he can deflect bullet that stop time

      Yes TIME STOP is on the profile

      A bullet has a vector, stopping time doesn't.

      Yes, Time Stop.....Is there something wrong?

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: Spread out or not it still uses a medium, if the medium gets negated there is no effect

      How is he negating the medium

      Again

      Her ice is not involved in the stopping of time it's not actually the medium

      She isn't using ice on anything to stop time

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote: You seem to be misinterpreting how her time stop works

      She isn't actually using ice to stop time

      She isn't hitting time with her ice, she isn't hitting someone with ice to time stop them

      She is stopping time using the same powersource as her ice powers that is the only connection

      That would imply that the teigu has space time manipulation, and that is false , she is using her ability to stop time, it’s not direct

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator still can’t do anything without a vector, so if Esdeath just sort of stops everything instantaneously there’s not much Accel can do. Post headshot would probably bullshit something but that’s not this fight.

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      You are literally the only person who seems to think that for some reason she is using ice to freeze time, even if she was there are still no vectors involved so he cant deflect it either way

      So can you please drop this topic it's clear no matter what we say you aren't going to change positions on it

        Loading editor
    • She doesnt timestops instantly on a fight, only when in danger

        Loading editor
    • Is Esdeath’s time stop instantaneous and thought based?

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote: @malox

      You are literally the only person who seems to think that for some reason she is using ice to freeze time, even if she was there are still no vectors involved so he cant deflect it either way

      So can you please drop this topic it's clear no matter what we say you aren't going to change positions on it

      Being the only one does not change facts, ur whole counter argument is on the assumption she controls time with her teigu something false and without proff

      As the teigu Ice manipulations is the medium, and it’s something that can be reflected by the field, the time stop would not work on him cause the medium is cut, u have this wrong idea of time as one, time is relative, it’s not like a recorder where u hit stops, it affects the whole universe

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      Okay let me summarize your arguments

      Esdeath's teigu gives her the ability to control ice

      Esdeath's teigu also gives her the ability to freeze space and time

      This means Esdeath's time stop uses ice despite that never being shown, and being completely illogical

      Going off the assumption Esdeath's time stop uses ice it somehow gets nulled despite lacking vectors anyway

      Did I miss anything?

        Loading editor
    • That really really depends on the time stop. They work in all sorts of different ways.

        Loading editor
    • TheMightyDanks wrote: Accelerator still can’t do anything without a vector, so if Esdeath just sort of stops everything instantaneously there’s not much Accel can do. Post headshot would probably bullshit something but that’s not this fight.

      Both pre and post head shot can’t do anything vs true time stop, in this case the vector affected is the medium, the ice manipulation

        Loading editor
    • If it’s instantaneous, thoughtbased, doesn’t have momentum, and effects the the area without any vectors, there isn’t anything preheadshot accel can do. Post-Headshot bullshits conceptual magic stuff like curses away through the Clonoth even though they don’t have vectors as we understand them, but preheadshot Accel cannot interact with anything that isn’t a scientific phenomena.

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote: @malox

      Okay let me summarize your arguments

      Esdeath's teigu gives her the ability to control ice

      Esdeath's teigu also gives her the ability to freeze space and time

      This means Esdeath's time stop uses ice despite that never being shown, and being completely illogical

      Going off the assumption Esdeath's time stop uses ice it somehow gets nulled despite lacking vectors anyway

      Did I miss anything?

      My argument: Her teigu power give ice manipulation

      Her teigu does not have time and space manipulation

      She freezes time and space with her teigu

      This means that she uses an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space like she says

      Ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

      This means that as the medium is cut so the time stop will not affect the area accel is affecting with his reality warping powers (the reflection field)

      Clear now ?

        Loading editor
    • if her ability doesn’t have a scientific vector then there’s nothing preheadshot Accel can do. He’s hard countered by stuff like this before he got brain damage.

        Loading editor
    • Ok so let me counter this

      >her teigu gives her ice manip

      Absolutely correct

      >she freezes time and space with her teigu

      Yes her ability to freeze time and space does indeed come from her teigu, which is also the source of her ice powers

      >her teigu doesn't have space and time manipulation

      That's not needed to stop time in the first place, her teigu has time stop

      >that means that she uses her an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space

      No it does not, she is not literally using ice to freeze time it's a metaphorical thing since ice freezes she gets to freeze time. It's pretty clear from her uses of it that she isn't using ice on anything to stop time

      >ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

      Its not ice manip, even if it was explain how the vectorless time stop gets reflected

        Loading editor
    • TheMightyDanks wrote:

      Again the vector affected is the ice manipulation, same reason u can’t spawn a fire ball inside his reflection field

      Btw all the post head shot thing u said is just speculations, as of now he has no counter to true time stop

      Btw again what u said about pre headshot accel is wrong, it can interact with the part that follow normal rules, that why he still deflected DM it’s a white list not a black list

        Loading editor
    • I just looked at a video of Esdeath using her time stop in the anime and it’s portrayed as being a field that she projects out from her own body which isn’t instantaneous. If this is true could it be said that this particular usage of time stop has a vector since it actually moves outwards? Assuming that preheadshot accel would be able to reflect Teigu energy or the like to begin with.

        Loading editor
    • @Mighty

      That's Anime only, want a manga scan?

        Loading editor
    • Would Esdeath against Platinum Winged Accel be a better match up?

      Themightydanks

      His reflection doesn't exactly work like that, it's why he can reflect things like dark matter, something that doesn't exist and why he was able to reflect certain magic before even learning about it. His ability is based on what he understands, basically if he can understand it, he can reflect or maniplate it, no matter if it's scientifcal or not.

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator still had to calculate the kinds of vectors that Kakine was including in his attacks, Kakines first attacks were able to penetrate the reflection since they included vectors that Accel didn’t know at first. Also, it was post headshot that fought Kakine.

        Loading editor
    • @Scrilk

      The 4B one....?

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      Ice manip isnt a vector and there are no vectors involved in her time stop

      @mighty

      Im pretty sure thats just artistic effect in the same way Dio's time stop looks like a bubble expanding from around himself when used

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I was just limiting preheadshot accel to natural phenomena since that’s all he’d encountered, it wasn’t until after the brain damage that he started to include new vectors.

        Loading editor
    • Mightydanks

      Actually that's not exactly true, it was only when Kakine tricked Accel's shield by changing the properties of light that he was able to get through. He basically used Accel's own filter system agaist him, until Accel added dark matter fully into his calculations.

        Loading editor
    • Platinum wings would be incredibly unfair hahah

        Loading editor
    • Accel confuses me, both pre and post headshot.

        Loading editor
    • I gotcha on the dark matter bit

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:

      >she freezes time and space with her teigu

      Yes her ability to freeze time and space does indeed come from her teigu, which is also the source of her ice powers

      >her teigu doesn't have space and time manipulation

      That's not needed to stop time in the first place, her teigu has time stop

      >that means that she uses her an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space

      No it does not, she is not literally using ice to freeze time it's a metaphorical thing since ice freezes she gets to freeze time. It's pretty clear from her uses of it that she isn't using ice on anything to stop time

      >ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

      Its not ice manip, even if it was explain how the vectorless time stop gets reflected

      Again , that’s false she developed that, the teigu did not have any ability to stop time she is the one who found application for her powers

      Well instead of reflecting the time stop he just negates the ice manipulation that carries the effect (example let’s assume he could not reflect light,if a fire manipulator wanted to create a flame to blind him with light inside his reflection field, he would be unable to do it as the fire manipulation would just be negated even tho the light could pass it)

        Loading editor
    • She would even beat Platinum winged Accel? Time stop really is Accel's achilles heal.

        Loading editor
    • From what I know of Accel, platinum wings wrecks her

        Loading editor
    • @malox

      Evidence with the assumption that its Ice Manipulation your argument still doesn't make sense

      Ice Manipulation isnt a vector

      Accel doesn't powernull

      He manipulates vectors

      What vector is involved in the time stop

        Loading editor
    • I mean accel does start screwing with things that don’t have traditional vectors later on. Also platinum wing accel wouldn’t play games and would probably just obliterate her instantly.

        Loading editor
    • Platinum wings is several tiers above her so of course he does

        Loading editor
    • I doubt platinum wings would even give her the opportunity to do anything

        Loading editor
    • Pre NT22 Black Wings Accelerator solo's the verse by virtue of having distance

        Loading editor
    • He also physically has solar system durability

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote: @malox

      Evidence with the assumption that its Ice Manipulation your argument still doesn't make sense

      Ice Manipulation isnt a vector

      Accel doesn't powernull

      He manipulates vectors

      What vector is involved in the time stop

      Mine is not an assumption as it’s all things said in the manga and 1+1 logic

      Ice manipulation IS a vector, like water , fire etc, why do u think he was untouchable by all the wannabes n1 in the city ? (They are all sub part of energy manipulation, in this case thermal)

      By negate I mean it does nothing, nor it get reflected or pass trough not power null , as it’s simply try to affect an area already affected by another reality warping ability

        Loading editor
    • Ice Manipulation isn't a vector it's a power

      He was untouched by the others because their applications of the powers had vectors

      Even with your assumption that she is using ice to time stop there are no vectors involved so no, it's not being negated that's not how accelerator's vector manipulation works

        Loading editor
    • That doesn't mafter, it's still Ice. She uses her powers to control and manipulate ice. Accel can reflect Ice. 

      Her time stop is a different story. I'm still confused how it really works though.

        Loading editor
    • She stops time with no ice involved

      Also it does matter if it has vectors, vectorless ice for instance cant be reflected just because its ice

        Loading editor
    • How is it vectorless? That doesn't make any sense. 

        Loading editor
    • Her ice manip isnt vectorless I was just making an example since you said something being vectorless doesn't matter

      Her time stop is vectorless though

        Loading editor
    • I didn't say any such thing.

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: That doesn't mafter, it's still Ice. She uses her powers to control and manipulate ice. Accel can reflect Ice. 

      Im not sure what you were saying didn't matter then, I was assuming it was in response to me saying that be was able to reflect the other espers powers since they had vectors

        Loading editor
    • You said that her ice powers would work in general and be able to bypass reflrection and I counteracted saying that it can't.

      I literally said underneath the quote you posted that time stop was a different story, do you actually read these posts fully?

        Loading editor
    • I unfollowed this but.


      >Vectorless ice can't be reflected just because it's ice

      Technically it can since he'd substitue the temperature of the ice for the lack of the vectors. 

        Loading editor
    • @scr

      I never said that her ice powers in general work though?

      @accelerate

      I dont think that's actually a thing he can do

        Loading editor
    • You said that her ice manipulation would work on him because it's a power, which is illogical since every manipulation is a power. 

      Also you don't think he can do what? Reflect the cold?

        Loading editor
    • I said that her time stop would work even if we assumed it was ice manip because her time stop is vectorless so it wouldn't matter if it was ice based or not

      I dont think he can switch the temperature for the lack of vectors since the lack of vectors is kinda something he cant manipulate

        Loading editor
    • Literally the whole point of ice is it's a frozen liquid from cold/lack of air. It's frozen and has a temperature. His power works on focusing on what's there so he can easily create vectors from a force that's there. This is ignoring the method that he can just apply vectors regardless of whether they lack them or not. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: Literally the whole point of ice is it's a frozen liquid from cold/lack of air. It's frozen and has a temperature. His power works on focusing on what's there so he can easily create vectors from a force that's there. This is ignoring the method that he can just apply vectors regardless of whether they lack them or not. 

      No one said he can't manipulate the vectors of ice

      I said he couldn't manipulate the vectors of a hypothetically vectorless ice

      Pre headshot cant just give vectorless things vectors to manipulate them

        Loading editor
    • I still don't see why this fight is still a thing when PRe-headshot just speed-amps to sub-rev and bodies, unless Speed-amping is restricted. 

        Loading editor
    • Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

        Loading editor
    • Because that's not a thing he has on his profile or has ever done pre headshot

        Loading editor
    • It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping? 

        Loading editor
    • Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel. 

      Then you should make a crt

      He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping? 

      Insert obligatory "everything is technically reality warping" statement here.

      Scalar quantities aren't poorly defined vectors. Vectors require direction, scalars lack it. If Accel has vector manipulation and manipulates heat, for a very scientific show it messed up some basic Physics 101. Of course, he gets a pass if it's heat flux, which is a vector.

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:

      Accelerate420 wrote: Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel. 

      Then you should make a crt

      He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

      There is a CRT right now. Post doesn't have 'better vector manip'. He just learned how to apply it better, the vectors never quantifiably changed properties. He just learned he can do more than reflect. Vectors aren't even technically tierable to begin with. 

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Accelerate420 wrote: It's canonically stated he can control heat. Scalar's are vectors to Accelerator as well, since Scalara's are just poorly defined Vectors to begin with. Do people seriously not understand his power isn't actually Vector Manipulation but Reality Warping? 

      Insert obligatory "everything is technically reality warping" statement here.

      Scalar quantities aren't poorly defined vectors. Vectors require direction, scalars lack it. If Accel has vector manipulation and manipulates heat, for a very scientific show it messed up some basic Physics 101. Of course, he gets a pass if it's heat flux, which is a vector.

      Not sure you missed the memo but that's literally how Esper Abilities work. "I think I can do this so I can do it". If he understands an attack regardless of them being scalar's or not, he can apply vectors to them. It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out. 

        Loading editor
    • That's...absurdly broken.

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

      Actually he can, this is actually a canon fact. Also while heat is a scalar itself, heat flux is a vector. But Accel has manipulated things that techically he shouldn't be able to like energy and electricity, both of which are scalars. 

      But Accel's power is based on reality warping and manipulation, it's only called vector manipulation but really his power is basically based on what he understands. If he can understand it, he can manipulate it in some way. It's why he can manipulate conceptional energy to break a demon's contract. 

        Loading editor
    • It's based off of Schrodingers Cat so yeah.  But the draw back is he has to take it into his body to input these things. If he's hit with a vectorless attack, if it kills him right away, that's that. 

        Loading editor
    • "Heat" may not have a vector but it's not like he can't apply a direction to it. heat flux is a vector so for all intent and purposes there's no real difference between controlling "heat" and "heat flux"

        Loading editor
    • Also, Accel manipulated Dark Matter. You know, the thing that doesn't work according to physics and doesn't exist. He just "oh, cool. Let me add that to my calcs." and forced it to work by normal vectors. 

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote:
      That's...absurdly broken.

      Kek. That's how Esper's work in To Aru. They are warping reality via quantum manipulation and enforcing their own microcosm/personal reality (thats why they need the calculations to make their powers work) on the macrocosm/normal reality. 

      And there are the holistic ones, who literally make a bigass event happen on the macrocosm to create an event on a micro scale (like colliding planets to create a fire thats barely hot enough to boil water)

        Loading editor
    • Schro talk to me on Discord I have so many questions about ToAru

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote: Heat is a scalar quantity, not a vector. So no, Accel couldn't manipulate it.

      Lol heat is literally moving atom and electrons, we count it as scalar but it’s not, hell he got inside lava and 0 kelvin no problem

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath fra,

        Loading editor
    • Paul Frank wrote:

      Accelerate420 wrote: Vectors don't magically get stronger when he gets brain damaged. Pre-Accel is meant to be scaled to Post Accel. 

      Then you should make a crt

      He has never shown to use his vector manip to the same scale as post hs who could be argued to have better vector manip anyway

      Post head shoot has better uses as he is more creative, pre head shoot has more calculation power as his brain was not damaged

        Loading editor
    • SinsofMan wrote:
      Esdeath fra,

      I will glad if you retract your vote, from what i see there is a new discussion here that will make Accel power more broken.

        Loading editor
    • Does Esdeath have knowledge of Accel and his powers and vice versa? 

      @Malox

      Are you still on that?

        Loading editor
    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:

      SinsofMan wrote:
      Esdeath fra,

      I will glad if you retract your vote, from what i see there is a new discussion here that will make Accel power more broken.

      You have zero right to decide votes, and if you paid attention this doesn't relate to the fight

        Loading editor
    • Going against what? 

        Loading editor
    • About the scalar thing and dark matter, right?

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: Going against what? 

      Scalar and Dark Matter

      Which has literally nothing to do with this fight Might I add. Esdeaths Ice isn't vectorless, but her timestop is.

        Loading editor
    • @Schnee one

      Who is going against this? It's canon that he can manipulate dark matter and it's also canon that he has manipulated things that are considered scalars in real life. This is all canon. 

      Back onto the fight though I think Esdeath having knowledge or Accel's ability or not and how it works might be important in this fight.

        Loading editor
    • As I said time stop is vector less but the medium that causes its not, if she is using an application of ice manipulation to create a time stop , rejecting the medium would leave him unaffected (example magneto is not immune to heat, but if u use a hot slab of steel to try and hit him and he just send it back his vulnerability to heat does not matter as he is affecting the medium of the heat)

        Loading editor
    • @Malox The Magneto example doesn't apply when that is still steel that's just really hot

      Esdeath does not use ice to literally freeze time. It's a swoerate application of her Teigu

        Loading editor
    • Scrlk666777 wrote: @Schnee one

      Who is going against this? It's canon that he can manipulate dark matter and it's also canon that he has manipulated things that are considered scalars in real life. This is all canon. 

      Back onto the fight though I think Esdeath having knowledge or Accel's ability or not and how it works might be important in this fight.

      The fact that he can do this? No one

      The fact that it matters this fight? Me, Esdeath doesn't have vectorless ice, just standard ice and time Stop, she also has no knowledge.

        Loading editor
    • Schnee One wrote:
      @Malox The Magneto example doesn't apply when that is still steel that's just really hot

      Esdeath does not use ice to literally freeze time. It's a swoerate application of her Teigu

      >her teigu has ice manipulation power

      >she says she freezes time and space

      >she developed the tecqnie by herself

      >Nah it gotta be time and space manipulation

      if that's not over reaching I don't know what is

        Loading editor
    • ...You kinda need to affect time and space to stop time...

      Like seriously, how does time Stop that "Freezes time and space" not affect "Time and Space"

        Loading editor
    • She has no knowledge?

      If this is the case would Esdeath actually use time stop or rather would she even think there's any use in using it?

      If one doesn't know of Accel's ability most, if any, would guess he can control vectors. In fact she would most likely think he has some kind of force field and/or some kind of attack reflection that allows him to reflect attack back. 

      If she uses everything against Accel before using time stop and everything is being reflected back at her, she might just believe that even in time stop this would also be the case.

      and since her time stop tires her extremely she might think that there's no point. 

        Loading editor
    • It affects space-time but brought a medium, her manipulation power, do u get it ?

      let's make an example with accel since he is her opponent

      accel has vector manipulation

      he can affect gravity with his ability

      if character A is immune to vector manipulation but vulnerable to gravity manipulation do u think the accel could control his gravity ? No, as the medium he would use would be negated

        Loading editor
    • @Scrilk

      1. Esdeaths time Stop doesn't "Tire her extremely" for a person who stopped time and fought off Night Raid while laughing.

      2. If she uses literally everything against him and she has no other option she will use it, she isn't an idiot set on sitting there and dying.

        Loading editor
    • Yes but if she believes that he only has reflecton she might just think that all she needs to do is stop attacking him.

      And would she even guess she's in danger as well from him reflecting her attacks? She might just accept that she can't do anything to him rather than think he's a danger to her life at this point.

        Loading editor
    • Esdeath not attacking Accelerator would be her assuming that time Stop won't work even if she tried, Esdeath isn't drained massively when she does it

      At the absolute worst Esdeath goes "Worth a try" and then stops time."

      Even then someone reflecting all of Esdeaths attacks like nothing is practically unheard of in AGK, assuming he isn't a threat to her after doing that would be out of the question.

        Loading editor
    • Leaving aside that it would not work,

      she used time stop only when she was about to lose or die, if she ever touches/gets hit the field around accel she would die from the reversal of blood and bio electricity

      my vote stll the sma ea stomp

        Loading editor
    • <Only when she was about to lose or die

      And?

        Loading editor
    • You know, this match are interesting and then it goes downhill like crap

        Loading editor
    • Accelerator is going to be at least 5-b soon anyway.

        Loading editor
    • ...nani

        Loading editor
    • Bakana..

        Loading editor
    • On a scale from 1 to 10, how much does Pre-H Accel job? So I can know who to vote for.

        Loading editor
    • really depends on whether hes having a good day or a bad day.

        Loading editor
    • The real cal howard wrote:
      On a scale from 1 to 10, how much does Pre-H Accel job? So I can know who to vote for.

      I'd say 8

        Loading editor
    • 9/10

        Loading editor
    • Then I'd vote for Esdeath.

        Loading editor
    • Thats 5 votes I think

        Loading editor
    • Yeah Esdeath fra

        Loading editor
    • 4 if his opponent doesn't try running away and talks back (unlesss you're Touma or have a method to getting through his redirection.)  7 if his opponent is trying to space him out.  10 if it's obligatory time stop immediately. 

        Loading editor
    • The Albino gets one shot, although Esdeath might not walk out ot if uninjuried

        Loading editor
    • Xantospoc wrote:
      The Albino gets one shot, although Esdeath might not walk out ot if uninjuried

      Is that a vote?

        Loading editor
    • all the votes are based in the fact that 1) the time stop works but it wouldn't, considering what power she uses to achieve it and 2) she knows about accel power and never goes melee and uses time stop the moment she is about to be hit (she only used it when it was game over, like AFTER getting hit by the blade or just before mission failure with VIP death)

      both are arguments with no foundations

        Loading editor
    • It doesn't matter since the fight is technically has no reason to happen now since pre is about to be scaled to post Accel soon, so this fight is gonna go outdated very soon via relativistic amp blitz. 

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote:
      It doesn't matter since the fight is technically has no reason to happen now since pre is about to be scaled to post Accel soon, so this fight is gonna go outdated very soon via relativistic amp blitz. 

      Will his dura still be 9-C without vectors?

        Loading editor
    • Yup. He's not scaling to wings, just his Post-Headshot NT22's stats. 

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: all the votes are based in the fact that 1) the time stop works but it wouldn't, considering what power she uses to achieve it and 2) she knows about accel power and never goes melee and uses time stop the moment she is about to be hit (she only used it when it was game over, like AFTER getting hit by the blade or just before mission failure with VIP death)

      both are arguments with no foundations

      What is it with you thinking you're authority overrides all the votes just because you disagree even though every single person disagreed with you?

      2) Outright ignores literally every time she used time Stop to avoid an attack instead of getting hit.

        Loading editor
    • Accelerate420 wrote: Yup. He's not scaling to wings, just his Post-Headshot NT22's stats. 

      <When Kakine might get a buff

      Ohhhhh.....I like

        Loading editor
    • Malox1696 wrote: 2) she knows about accel power and never goes melee and uses time stop the moment she is about to be hit

      "never"

      X29AGK
        Loading editor
    • Schnee One wrote:

      Accelerate420 wrote: Yup. He's not scaling to wings, just his Post-Headshot NT22's stats. 

      <When Kakine might get a buff

      Ohhhhh.....I like

      Actually the discussion is removing Kakine's scaling to Accel, so he shouldn't be getting a buff. He should have never been scaled to Accel anyway.

        Loading editor
    • DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

      Although that would explain how Kakine hit Accel through his shield but didn't kill him.

        Loading editor
    • Wait but doesn’t Accel have human durability? If Kakine could hit him through the shield without it killing Accel, how weak is Kakine? Actual question btw.

        Loading editor
    • Kakine hasn't got a massive AP, so his 7-B tier was always a bit off. Kakine's ability is more based on creation and durability rather than outright AP. But I'm not sure how he didn't kill Accel but Accel himself is a strange one in this regard.

        Loading editor
    • Kakine will probably be like 9C.

      Accel didn't even really hit him during their fight to protect civilians and completely stomped him when he got serious.

        Loading editor
    • Personally I think Kakine should be about 8-B-8-A. He and Accel was causing immense damage to the street and buildings. 

      To be honest Kakine should have never been scaled to Accel for the reason you just stated. Accel was holding back and when he did get serious Kakine was defeated easily.

        Loading editor
    • Schnee One
      Schnee One removed this reply because:
      I
      22:03, July 27, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • No problem

        Loading editor
    • Eh lemme just keep waiting till then I guess.

        Loading editor
    • To begin with, Kakine's wings probably do not have a set AP more so than it's dependant on the materials he has created using them. Smacking Accel with that wing through his barrier may not have the same affect as slicing through a building considering he's infusing 25k different particles and matter into it at the same time. His wings are likely far higher than his own natural AP is. Accelerator did launch an attack that far exceeded a Railgun's velocity which was enough to evaporate a rock just barely meters after it's kicked, and he tanked it like it was nothing with his wings. Though with true DM manipulation AP is not really a thing for him. 

        Loading editor
    • Who else has their towering changed due to this? I imagine Gabriel

        Loading editor
    • Kakine tanking Accel's attack just speaks about his durability than his AP.

      On this fight though, to be fair even with the upgrades, it's only really the speed that makes the difference really. Accel's AP was always higher than Esdeath's and his durability without his vector field is still the same. 

        Loading editor
    • Accel wouldn't really amp if he's just sitting back enjoying a spectacle

        Loading editor
    • That's true.

      Truthfully if Accel wanted to he could probably defeat Esdeath easily in a matter of seconds but Pre-headshot Accel just likes playing around a bit too much and takes more time than necessary which will probably be his downfall in this fight, upgrades or not.

      If this was Post-headshot then Accel would most certaintly win because he would just take her out as he doesn't mess around and likes to take people out as quickly and effortly as possible if he can.

        Loading editor
    • Schnee One wrote:
      Who else has their towering changed due to this? I imagine Gabriel

      Gabriel should be fine, I see no reason to change anything about Gab. 

        Loading editor
    • @Scrlk I agree Accelerator would take this if he was a lot more serious.

      I assume that's a vote for Esdeath to conclude this?

        Loading editor
    • Schnee One wrote:

      What is it with you thinking you're authority overrides all the votes just because you disagree even though every single person disagreed with you?

      2) Outright ignores literally every time she used time Stop to avoid an attack instead of getting hit.

      Again how would she knows simply going near him is death ?

      i mean what would the connection be from, skinny dude that send back my attack to esper that controls vectors and will instantly kill me, even the sister had to go 10000+ fight to understand part of it

      she used only if it was game over, like getting shot to death not a punch or a kick

      btw how do u explain this ?

      https://s3.mkklcdnv3.com/mangakakalot/r1/read_akame_ga_kill_manga/chapter_54_kill_the_adversity_part_2/31.jpg

      >resistance to cold

      >frozen space


      again the time stop argument just doesn't work by virtue of how it's achieved

        Loading editor
    • We had an entire thread about that scan, and it was later decided that resistance to cold doesn’t grant resistance to Esdeath’s time stop due to further context.

      Also, where are the vectors? Accelerator cannot deflect things without a vector, so show me where the vectors are. Even ignoring all common sense and assuming that Esdeath’s using Ice powers to freeze time, where are the vectors?

        Loading editor
    • TriforcePower1 wrote:
      We had an entire thread about that scan, and it was later decided that resistance to cold doesn’t grant resistance to Esdeath’s time stop due to further context.

      Also, where are the vectors? Accelerator cannot deflect things without a vector, so show me where the vectors are. Even ignoring all common sense and assuming that Esdeath’s using Ice powers to freeze time, where are the vectors?

      Temperature manipulation = vector, both ice and fire, it's literally agitated state of the atoms freezing something is literally stopping the energy exchange of atoms making them stand still

      btw it's u ignoring common sense when literally every scan talks her about freezing space-time using her ice manipulation power, and the teigu only has that power as stated by the manga

      and still all the vote are done assuming she knows accel power, which is false

        Loading editor
    • Malox are you really still trying to push the whole "time stop is done with ice" thing so you can say accel deflects it somehow even though literally everyone disagreed with you and showed how you were wrong

        Loading editor
    • Considering her teigu was mentioned to only have ice manipulation, and she herself always says frozen space or freeze time and space, it must be an application of her power, it's a sub category of reality warping after all (im not arguing that resistance to cold would negate the time stop like u are implying, im saying that accel power passively negated the activation of time stop around him as it negates the teigu powers from influencing the area around him)

      btw u all keep ignoring the fact u made the whole argument on her knowing accel power once again, cause after all u know that argument stand on a slim rope and u better just ignore any counter argument than actually respond and risk the fall

        Loading editor
    • Bump

        Loading editor
    • Bump?

        Loading editor
    • Accy can't deflect Time Stop FRA

        Loading editor
    • The Grace

      Has finally ended

      Feel free to add whenever ya'll wish

      I am closing.

        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.