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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3317528
    18:46, July 27, 2019

    A thread to check the quality of new verses and profiles hailing from YouTube and to purge already existing ones that fail to meet our new standards.

    For a brief rundown on the new editing rules,

    "Characters and verses that originate from a YouTube series are allowed, but they should have a reasonably coherent narrative. Being a joke franchise with inconsistent feats and powerscaling should not automatically disallow the verse. However, the original YouTube characters should only scale from feats demonstrated within their own continuity rather than cross-scale from any notable cameo characters. For further information, read the following information pages: CrossoversAlternative Canon and Composite ProfilesOutlier, and Plot-Induced Stupidity."

    If a profile on the list below is in Bold, that means it has been agreed to be kept. If a profile is struckthrough, that means it will be deleted or revised, with additional specifications accompanying in (parentheses).

    Note: Staff Only




    Edit: A list of the YouTube profiles in this wiki:

    The Nostalgia Critic

    Anthony Padilla (Food Battle only)

    Ian Hecox (Food Battle only)

    The Nameless One (CalebCity) (Waiting on profile creator)

    The Guitar Guy

    The Glitch Gremlin

    Death Mwauthzyx

    Wilford Warfstache

    The Detective (Who Killed Markiplier?)

    Oishi Kawaii

    Noodles

    The Angry Video Game Nerd

    HABIT

    Filthy Frank (Francis of the Filth)

    Sassy the Sasquatch

    The Ginosaji

    Cecil the Sasquatch

    Choomahviathan

    Leslie Mackerel

    Clarence

    Mike Nolan

    Ellis Warnington

    Brandon Rogers (Character)

    Bryce Tankthrust

    Donna Phitts

    Eldest Elmer

    Sam (Brandon Rogers)

    Balgar

    Super Spiro

    Boris

    Green Man (Petscop)

    Marvin (Petscop)

    Firey (Battle for Dream Island)

    Announcer (BFDI)

    Four (Battle for BFDI)

    Look-See

    Animator (Animator vs. Animation)

    The Chosen One (Animator vs. Animation)

    The Second Coming

    Small Girl

    The Observer (TribeTwelve)

    Slenderman (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Salad Fingers

    Splendor Man (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    The Rake (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Ticci Toby (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Zalgo (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Jeffery Keaton (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Mr. WideMouth (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Eyeless Jack (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Jane the Killer (Jeff the Killer Saga)

    Elon

    Slenderman (EverymanHYBRID)

    Slenderman (The Angel's Game)

    Markiplier Manor (Who Killed Markiplier?)

    Tobuscus


    Verses

    Smosh (Verse)

    CalebCity (Verse)

    Cinemassacre (Verse)

    Brandon Rogers (Verse)

    Balgar (Verse)

    Petscop

    Animator vs. Animation

    Jeff the Killer Saga

    ASDF (Verse)

    Dross (Verse)


    New

    I Like Trains Kid (ASDF)

    Mine Turtle

    Stegosaurus (ASDF)

    Mr. Muffin

    Do The Flop Guy (ASDF)

    Darkiplier

    Sock

    Mephistopheles (Welcome to Hell)

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    • Following.

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    • I'll start. Should ASDF (Verse) stay on the site? I'm leaning towards the side of no, since they are an assortment of random gags and jokes, but I do know that there are some characters with mainstay continuity and dedicated videos. So I'm still sorta neutral on this.

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    • I would agree, it doesn't really have a consistent plot so much as brief jokes strung together. If they have any characters that would legitimately stand as a story then I'd say keep 'em. 

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    • I agree. It is just a bunch of skits and sketches without any real continuity.

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      • Do the videos exist in a strictly fictional setting?
      • Do the videos have continuity between them?
      • Do the verse have what can be classified as a decent amount of audience?

      If the answer to all these questions is No then you may assume I'm in favour of deletion (tho definitely attempt to ask for my opinion directly in case there's are complications)

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    • That's a yes to all but the second question.

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    • Depending on which character youre referring to the second question is a yes, some characters like Train Kid and Do The Flop Guy have full backstories

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    • But the series as a whole doesn't really have continuity.

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    • Correct

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    • ASDF is pretty much just a bunch of gags, and not much story.

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    • Well I feel like the smosh verse, markiplier and others should be removed

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    • Markiplier is actually alright. That has a story, Who Killed Markiplier?

      and others is...very generic. 

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    • I feel that Smosh should be removed but not Who Killed Markiplier.

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    • "Who killed Markiplier" is like, the only story, and has no actual relation to anything else in the channel, really.

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    • Doesnt Smosh have legitimate movies or something? Shouldnt those be okay?

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    • It's still a story tho.

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    • "Darkiplier" shouldn't exist, for example. Wilford I'm fine with if it sticks to the story of Who Killed Markiplier and the detective and all that. 

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    • Darkiplier is present in Who Killed Markiplier, though. He shows up st the end. I feel like he should be fine. 

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    • If he takes purely from that? Could be, but the profile atm doesn't look that way. 

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    • Lemme look it over real quick.

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    • No this all seems to come from just Who Killed Markiplier. 

      Is there a particular thing you’re confused about?

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    • Weekly is correct regarding ASDF. Only the characters with established backstories should have profiles.

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    • WeeklyBattles wrote:
      Doesnt Smosh have legitimate movies or something? Shouldnt those be okay?

      Movies that have almost nothing to do with the channel itself.

      Don't really know about the animated series though.

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    • Smosh cartoons are definitely okay

      The live action smosh is... on the edge. I’m not even 100% sure TBH.

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    • The movies can still be used even if they don’t regard the channel. 

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    • RDCWorld1 profiles?

      They fall under the rules. At least with Hood Avatar and orther videos which don't include fan characters.

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    • @All My comment was for all profiles that are in discussion not ASDF specifically

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    • YungManzi wrote: RDCWorld1 profiles?

      They fall under the rules. At least with Hood Avatar and orther videos which don't include fan characters.

      Coincidence. I was planning on making a Hood Avatar page.

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    • Calebcity should go tbh.

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    • Why so?

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    • From what I can tell, The Nameless One is just a composite from a ton of unrelated skits. No actual narrative tying them together.

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    • You could ask the person who made the profile about that. 

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    • And it doesn't even seem to be the same character in all of them, just the same actor playing a detective, an anime villain, insects, etc.

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    • I think it goes without saying that I massively stand against ASDF. A bunch of meme-like skits with extremely weak continuity aren't highly appreciated by me.

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    • WeeklyBattles wrote: Depending on which character youre referring to the second question is a yes, some characters like Train Kid and Do The Flop Guy have full backstories

      I see your point, but like this quote says the profiles that have a narrative and continuity should stay.

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    • Should this be a staff forum thread, to keep it more focused on results?

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    • I think it should stay open for now. If it starts to derail too much it should be changed to Staff Only.

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    • Okay.

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    • I'm pretty sure it's fine, but is and then we'll be okay suitable for profiles?

      It's a serious standalone ~20 minute video, detailing a fictional story.

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    • It should be if it follows a narrative and has continuity it's fine. Short stories aren't disallowed.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Yobo_Blue/Linkara#Base

      This man ain’t done, and it’s a Awesomeverse, so this should be fine, right?

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    • Yeah it's fine.

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    • Agnaa wrote: I'm pretty sure it's fine, but is and then we'll be okay suitable for profiles?

      It's a serious standalone ~20 minute video, detailing a fictional story.

      Watched the whole video and I do think it's fine

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    • Arrogant Schmuck
      Arrogant Schmuck removed this reply because:
      11:05, July 24, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • So on the topic of ASDF, should the profiles stay?

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    • Here is a list of the current YouTube profiles in this wiki: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3290528

      Please help out to evaluate which ones that should be deleted.

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    • Also, should I highlight this?

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    • Hmm. I'd rather this be on the staff forum if you intend to highlight it. I have a feeling the thread will be flooded with people coming to defend their verses if you highlight it the way it is now.

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    • I believe that the ASDF characters that have an actual story should stay. The rest should go.

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    • Yes. Moving this to the staff forum first seems wisest.

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    • So are you going to highlight this now?

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    • Okay, so just to start, I'm going to knock a couple of these YouTube Profiles off of this list here.

      Look-See should stay, as an entire continuity for the channel, CryptTV, is currently there and on-going. With the Look-See basically being the mascot for the channel and one of the primary monsters on the channel.

      The same goes for The Ginosaji, Salad Fingers, the entire Petscop verse, as well a couple of profiles that were missed on the list, such as Skitzo and Red Guy (Don't Hug Me I'm Scared).

      As for the Markiplier characters, as Jacky said, each one of them does not borrow anything from the rest of the channel. Their main source of canonicity is from the "Who Killed Markiplier?" on-going canon. Characters like Wilford Warfstache, The Detective (Who Killed Markiplier?), and yes, even Darkiplier. I know people are concerned about Darkiplier, but not only is he prominently shown at the end of the Who Killed Markiplier? series, but there was even an entire semi-animated video released afterwards focusing on Damien, which can be seen here: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q14pVTr1SxQ) There is an on-going narrative being told here, and I believe that it's fine as is, as long as it continues to only focus on this particular aspect of Markiplier's channel.

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    • @GojiBoyForever

      I have done so.

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    • I think The Nameless One should be removed.

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    • There should be more crypt tv profiles

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    • IDK what Crypt TV is but it would have to abide by these new rules for it to be so.

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    • Shouldn't have the Slenderman profiles and everything related to them be deleted by a while?

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    • It can easily do so. Also, if you're unfamiliar with the channel, it is a very horror-centric channel which can be found here: ( Crypt TV - YouTube )

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    • Crypt TV is pretty much a Horror Cinematic Universe.

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    • Eh, think I'll leave that up to someone else then, not really a fan of horror stuff.

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    • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMOB6uDg7e-h8OuCw8dK2_Q

      There is also this channel very similar to crypt tv

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    • I'm also going to knock off all Brandon Rogers (Verse) affiliated characters. The channel has serialized shows and all videos take place is a connected universe.

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    • Brofist Pewdiepie should not be on this list, he originates from a game not youtube videos

      Same for any other alternate media depiction of a youtube character

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    • @Andy

      Feel free to remove it from the list then.

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    • Filthy Frank from Francis Of The Filth is a book character.

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    • Matpat I'm pretty sure also shouldn't be here.

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    • Andytrenom wrote:
      Matpat I'm pretty sure also shouldn't be here.

      As in here on the list or on the site?

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    • Likewise, Tobuscus as a profile originates from the mobile game he released.

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    • Removed Pewdiepie and Matpat

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    • Please remove Filthy Frank as well.

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    • Yeah I think those profiles kinda ruin this wiki

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    • Black knight of the darkness wrote:
      Yeah I think those profiles kinda ruin this wiki

      I think they mean to remove them from the list.

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    • ^

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    • Wilford, The Detective and Darkiplier should stay, they're from a set continuity that disregard any other appearance of the character as the notes present in them state. Though Darkiplier should be renamed to Darkiplier (Who Killed Markiplier?) to avoid confusion, and the Markiplier Manor (Who Killed Markiplier?) profile should be deleted as it is a duplicate of the Darkiplier one.

      It is said at one point that Author Avatars were to be discouraged from being added to the wiki, and most of the profiles listed are infact, author avatars of some form, so that's something to note I reckon.

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    • There isn't someone named Darkiplier from another unrelated franchise, renaming is not needed

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    • Well, there are multiple versions of the character from different videos, so people may start adding random abilities to the page based on some 2012 video they saw.

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    • That only needs a note

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    • Somebody already changed it, so nevermind.

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    • Zark2099 wrote: Well, there are multiple versions of the character from different videos, so people may start adding random abilities to the page based on some 2012 video they saw.

      But there might eventually be more lore-appropriate videos that get released. If they're canon, and part of the same canon, they should be part of the profile; so it shouldn't be renamed.

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    • "Legitimacy", "size of audience", and "having an actual story" are not arguments. Have we grasped that yet? Every one of these threads end up being filled with the same nonsense that is used to defend modern art. I'm trying very hard not to be a buzzkill, but this has gotten quite ridiculous.

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    • Well, we cannot allow any incoherent figment from any YouTube video with a few dozen views.

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    • Size of audience kinda is. Not just for youtube, every verse needs at least some level notoriety to be added, even if it isn't the most popular thing ever.

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    • @Ant

      My point isn't that some random video with 3 views should be allowed. Quite the opposite actually. I'm saying something having a large audience does not automatically make it acceptable just because it tells some "story" and passes for legitimacy by the subjective standards being used. The line between the three wikis is being blurred.

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    • @Sera

      Well, I probably agree about that.

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    • @Andy

      Size of audience is irrelevant. You're making my point. Having a small audience doesn't disqualify something from being allowed. For example, Senshinkan and the Silverio series are obscure works though they have a sizeable audience in their home country (Japan).

      Something have a large audience doesn't make it acceptable either. Nazo Unleashed has over 30 million views on Youtube, doesn't mean it's allowed because it's a fan work.

      I'm not saying "BAN ALL YOUTUBE", but the arguments being used here are making me suggest some (even if possibly only a few of these youtube verses) set a bad example for what is allowed.

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    • Did anyone use high popularity as a reason for inclusion tho? People may have brought up popularity but that's because lack of it would a cause for rejection, I don't think it's because they think high popularity alone supports profiles

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    • @Sera it's not irrelevant, the size just has to be really small for it to actually keep the work from being featured. I'm of course not saying obscurity alone would disqualify profiles

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    • A Youtube series that has to be popular just to be allowed, is still unacceptable. We don't use popularity at such a degree to determine the validity of any other verse. We hosted an untranslated obscure Russian novel verse here for maybe around two years despite no one knowing a lick about it other than a very small group of people. We had the Masadaverse here since 2016 and most of those works are obscure (only truly popular outside of in Japan by vs debaters only) until Dies Irae's localization and Otaku Dai Kun's video on its lore.

      Again, this is not about the platform (Youtube) but the content posted there in relation to said platform being used to imply credibility.

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    • I don't think I ever argued the viewership criteria should be stricter for youtube profiles than other media

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    • Obviously Rock Hard Gladiators is okay. Nobody questioned it but in stating it anyway since it did originate from YT (well...kinda).

      That said, Sera is completely right. We need to draw a line somewhere. We gotta draw a line in the sand. We gotta make a statement. We gotta look inside ourselves and ask “what am I willing to put up with today?”

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    • Well clearly not this.

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    • I didn't say you did, nor am I saying that or the opposite. I'm saying it's irrelevant regardless. My point is "notable works of fiction" is not hard to define. The content matters, and the content is what needs quality control. This means that this isn't even a Youtube issue. There's Indige games and online games with the same problem and I'm sure out of 21000 pages we have some nonsense that went under the radar here. Someone thought "this has a story and is known by a lot of people so it belongs on VBW!" and it's all the result of a poorly defined rule.

      Basically, this here (Youtube profile quality control) shouldn't be the discussion as I mentioned Everlasting said said on the previous thread.

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    • I honestly agree with that. To me at least it feels like people treat youtube as a completely different thing from what we used to deal with in the past. But at the end of the day, isn't it just self published content? Like multiple books, internet stories, indie games etc?

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    • Most internet stories, aside from SCP aren't really allowed though iirc.

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    • @Andy

      Yes, that's basically what I'm saying. It's the rule itself that probably needs more tweaking. Anyway I have to go to bed, doc's orders. No more late night stands for this debater :/

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    • HeadlessKramerGeoff777 wrote: Most internet stories, aside from SCP aren't really allowed though iirc.

      That is true. Creepypasta isn't allowed on here even if it has a story, continuity, plot etc. What's different about Jeff The Killer Saga? Should probably be removed from the site.

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    • Talk about creepypastas somewhere else please

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    • I was just stating my reasons I think it should be removed.

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    • It has its own canon, similar to The Slender Mythos and The Creepypasta Comic. Just because something is inspired by something, doesn't mean it should be removed. Heck we have The Stalker from a creepypasta that became a book, and other similar cases.

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    • I suppose that makes sense.

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    • HeadlessKramerGeoff777 wrote: It has its own canon, similar to The Slender Mythos and The Creepypasta Comic. Just because something is inspired by something, doesn't mean it should be removed. Heck we have The Stalker from a creepypasta that became a book, and other similar cases.

      I think meme profiles aren't allowed

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    • They aren't though. In fact most CP stories aren't. But that is a different talk and should be handled elsewhere.

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    • Things like Balgar and Small Girl and things that have actually gotten shows or aren’t just shorts and have been unceremoniously absorbed into this conglomerate should be fine. 

      Sock and Mephistopheles (Welcome to Hell) are also perfectly fine as they come from a short as well and have an actual fictional universe set in, with arguably more lore than some things here. 

      Thats all I have to say. Just protecting my stuff here

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    • everyone's protecting their stuff here, this thread is becoming the equivalent of a mob storming a bank to ensure their cash is safe

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    • Okay, why don't we do this in a more orderly way: Let's go down the list and make decisions about the profiles. As such, we should start with The Nostalgia Critic. So, opinions on this one, and not other random youtube files?

      As ones are gone through on the list, I will edit the OP accordingly. Bolded files are accepted, strikethrough ones are not, and unformatted ones we just haven't gotten to.

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    • Nostalgia Critic should be fine. Actual story, continuity and all that good jazz. I don’t personally see a problem with it. 

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    • I'm on mobile, but I'm pretty sure Awesomeverse in general is fine fr various reasons.

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    • I agree with Sera's points of view. It's less about popularity or the quality of their story, but rather the distinction between original published works, fan made works, and throw away memes. Super Mario Bros Z does have a continuity, but it is a fan made parody that happens to mix Mario and Sonic characters with a DBZ style narrative. Thus, it qualifies for FC/OC wiki and not here. The various Roosterteeth original series are definitely allowed here given that it qualifies just as much of a published work as really any of the mainstream profiles here. That being said, it doesn't have to be mainstream to be here, just like some super obscure cult classic books and video games are allowed here as it's still a published work.

      I will say that Channel Awesome and Cinemassacre do qualify as notable publishers similar to Roosterteeth, and it is for those reasons that they're fine. There's also the fact that AVGN has both a feature film, and a game series; which are back up stuff to note about being a published work; but not saying those details alone are requirements. It's just the point is the three different wikis are designed for the three main categories of works.

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    • Yo can we not get off topic again, thread was more for saying what files specifically were and were not allowed as opposed to arguing over standards like we did the past several threads

      Seems like Nostalgia Critic accepted, so on to the next one: Anthony Padilla

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    • I disagree with allowing Smosh files myself. They don't have some sort of unified continuity to my knowledge, and the files attempt to tie together a bunch of skits and assume that any of these things are just constant capabilities.

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    • I heard their Food Fight series have continuity as well as their movies. Only those should be used if that’s the case. 

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    • I agree with what Jacky said. Seems to make more sense than what the profiles are now anyway.

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    • I'm not really much of a fan of keeping Smosh outside of Food Fight.

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    • Food fight is consistent and acknowledged across the series. They also have acknowledged their own deaths and bring up they just come back from death.

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    • Sorry, I know this is a staff only thread now, but I just find it funny how, because Roachman never put The Beard, The Sweeping Man, or Resident Enis on his thread list (Which I told him when I made them), they're not here either.

      I have, however, already talked to Sir Oven about why they should stay.

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    • So is the conclusion to go with food fight only, or is there opposition to this?

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    • I mean Butters has some opposition but I think Food Fight only is personally the best idea. 

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    • Food battle is where most their feats come from. With the acception of a few other videos which did acknowledge Food battle. And the movie. It would just remove a couple of abilities like Anthony getting laser vision from an older video.

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    • Food Battle, not Food Fight.

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    • Mr. Bambu
      Mr. Bambu removed this reply because:
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      17:30, July 24, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Let's go in order and not jump to tobuscus. The Nameless One (CalebCity) is next. Idk this one.

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    • Smosh also have a few cartoon series on a separate channel

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    • Oh. Sorry. Didn't know we had a lost to go through. I'll wait.

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    • Mr. Bambu
      Mr. Bambu removed this reply because:
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      17:30, July 24, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Its verse of origin wouldn’t be called Smosh. It would be called Oishi High School Battle.

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    • They exist in the same verse as having met before. Which is why it has both on there.

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    • Buttersamuri wrote:
      Oh yea. Noodle and Oishi Kawaii should stay. They are apart of the smosh verse. But that is definitely an ongoing cartoon series that had more than one season with an ongoing continuity.

      This brought up now cause they are apart of the Amish verse which is currently being discussed.

      Wrong Noodle?

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    • Wokistan wrote: Let's go in order and not jump to tobuscus. The Nameless One (CalebCity) is next. Idk this one.

      This needs to be removed tbh. The character is simply a cohesion of every single character that Caleb has played despite there being little to no continuity between each skit.

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    • I've heard talk about TNO and apparently it's pretty universally in the "delet" category. Dunno the character myself though. 

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    • Delete

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    • Nuke it

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    • TNO?

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    • I'm waiting for the makes of the files to opine on them before actually deleting anything, but I suppose we can move on to the next one in the list: The Guitar Guy. I have no idea who this is.

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    • Judging by the profile. He just is a AVGN character. So if AVGN is fine. He should be fine.

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    • If he's an AVGN character, let me tag the AVGN profile makers

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    • Thank you for helping out with trying to keep this discussion organised.

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    • The Glitch Gremlin and The Guitar Guy should stay.

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    • Since The Nostalgia Critic is fine. I think AVGN characters and himself should be fine for the same reasons.

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    • The Great YouTube Profile Massacre

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    • I will say, you cannot delete TNO without also saying that profiles like these should be deleted: Bugs Bunny (Composite), Mickey Mouse (Composite), Felix the Cat (Composite) among others, as he is composited for the same reasons they are.

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    • What is that reason again?

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    • That we don't want to make 100 different profiles for the same charcater for every single one of their appearances due to lack of consistency.

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    • Think there is a difference in this case but idk.

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    • The difference is that these characters are composited from actual fully developed storylines. Single one-off skits aren't the same as, say, the dozens upon dozens of Mickey Mouse cartoons, movies, games, etc. Ditto for Bugs Bunny. 

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    • It ain't the same character for TNO though. It's just the same actor playing many different characters

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    • Bugs Bunny only exists in short cartoons with no real story outside of the individual cartoons. Same for Felix.

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    • They're all still Bugs Bunny, while Caleb is playing obviously different characters in each skit, accentuated by the fact that he generally plays several characters at once

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    • CinnabarManx421 wrote:
      Bugs Bunny only exists in short cartoons with no real story outside of the individual cartoons. Same for Felix.

      Dunno about Felix but...

      Here's a list of, in total, 16 television series, 11 movies, 5 direct-to-video features, several comic books including 85 issues of just Bugs Bunny. We then get to video games, of which there are 11 based solely on Bugs Bunny alone. Please don't just say stuff man.

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    • The characters all generally act the same though and can easily be seen as the same person. And even then, that's still covered under the rules for Composite Characters.

      "It can also be justified if a certain fiction has multiple spinoffs of dubious canonicity, for which quantifiable feats are scarce, such as most Pokémon and Digimon characters. It should preferably be limited to franchises that actually need it for sufficient scaling, if the different versions are too dispersed and incoherent to make a clear picture of individually"

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    • So it isn't even canon that the character is the same, just 'generally acts the same and is played by the same person'. 

      I'm voting nuke. 

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    • They aren't the same person? Going nuke it then.

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    • One is an anime hero, other is an anime villain, one is a detective, other is a rapper. And, again, he plays several characters at once in the same video. You can't justify them being the same person.

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    • I agree. Nuke it.

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    • I agree with nuking Nameless One.

      Sera EX wrote: A Youtube series that has to be popular just to be allowed, is still unacceptable. We don't use popularity at such a degree to determine the validity of any other verse.

      So I can upload a YouTube video that gets 3 views and make profiles for it just because it meets all the other criteria? We need the popularity clause to weed out fanfiction written by vs debaters.

      It's not that some YouTube series need to be popular to be allowed, every YouTube series needs to be popular to be allowed.

      About the other points in your post, the Russian book series was eventually removed because it wasn't popular enough. Masadaverse is fine because the Japanese audience isn't just 1,000 vs debaters. It doesn't matter why it's popular in the west or how popular it is here, it matters how popular it is in the creator's circle and how reliably we can confirm its statistics (if the work's in another language).

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    • I actually don't agree on nuking TNO. I really don't see that being correct really.

      Caleb is just like some other characters on this wiki so if he gets nuked a lot of other characters are gonna have to get nuked aswell. If not then no

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    • You have effectively given no reason other than a vague "he's not alone". 

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    • Agnaa wrote: I agree with nuking Nameless One.

      Sera EX wrote: A Youtube series that has to be popular just to be allowed, is still unacceptable. We don't use popularity at such a degree to determine the validity of any other verse.

      So I can upload a YouTube video that gets 3 views and make profiles for it just because it meets all the other criteria? We need the popularity clause to weed out fanfiction written by vs debaters.

      It's not that some YouTube series need to be popular to be allowed, every YouTube series needs to be popular to be allowed.

      About the other points in your post, the Russian book series was eventually removed because it wasn't popular enough. Masadaverse is fine because the Japanese audience isn't just 1,000 vs debaters. It doesn't matter why it's popular in the west or how popular it is here, it matters how popular it is in the creator's circle and how reliably we can confirm its statistics (if the work's in another language).

      We have already finished discussing that in the other thread. This thread is only using the new rules to get rid of unneeded profiles.

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    • Creaturemaster971
      Creaturemaster971 removed this reply because:
      Didn't realize it was staff-only
      00:33, July 25, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • If TNO is playing different characters. Then that's vastly different. At least with characters like Anthony Padilla, he is always the same person. He isn't suddenly a new person with new life and other things. Anthony is always Anthony, Friend of Ian, lives same house, same likes, same dislikes. Ect. And even he seemed to get denied aside from the food battles and movie. (Which btw. The list should say Food battle and movie cause he movie is also most certainly canon.)

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    • The Smosh movie isn’t canon to Smosh, same with their cartoon YouTube series

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    • https://youtu.be/RYDCyXkvbQA

      https://youtu.be/2LaYILqP9KA

      https://youtu.be/x2Y5-4kLb5I

      A few of his videos, for example. He plays many characters at once, and they're generally not the same in different videos

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    • And what makes you say that their actual movie they made about themselves is not canon?

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    • Buttersamuri wrote:
      And what makes you say that their actual movie they made about themselves is not canon?

      It’s mostly due to how it contradicts stuff from the YouTube channel 

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    • Except it was said to by use most YouTube stuff. Just gonna use food battle. Which doesn't offer much to contridoct. Since the movie is only about Anthony wanting to grow up.

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    • Came here from the CalebCity disc thread, can someone just give me a short list or statement on why the Nameless's quality is not sufficient?

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    • It is not the same character across the skits.

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    • @Wokistan, I was contacted regarding Guitar Guy? Yeah, he's probably the 2nd most iconic AVGN character, he's the guy who plays the theme song. And did play a major role in three episodes; the Battletoads one, Bugs Bunny's Crazy Castle, and Ikari Warriors. In in the second one, he legit has traded blows with the AVGN when they were both trying to fight the Cinemassacre version of Bugs Bunny. He's also a playable character in AVGN Adventures and was able to defeat some of the various bosses such as The Giant Claw, Two Satans, ect. So his profile is perfectly fine to stay here.

      All the AVGN profiles currently made are fine.

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    • The Glitch Gremlin should stay as well.

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    • For the most part, it is the same actor in every skit. I'm pretty sure that the profile is detailing the abilities of all of the actor's different personas compiled. Is that not allowed?

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    • Yeah. It's not allowed.

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    • Composite Bruce Lee was removed so I would say no

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    • No. They are different people played by the same actor.

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    • If it's just the same actor, I too agree with removal

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    • Yeah, we won't be compositing any actors; reason Bruce Lee page got deleted. Mike Matei for instance would simply have his abilities from the AVGN Adventures game and not all the various characters he played in the various videos.

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    • Ah, maybe I should just copy the source text before deletion, if that's the case

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    • Death Mwauthzyx Was a major AVGN villian. So he should be good as well.

      Iirc. Above said that "Who kill Markiplier" characters are fine, So Wilford Warfstache and The Detective (Who Killed Markiplier?) should be good

      Oishi Kawaii and Noodles both come from an ongoing and consistent cartoon series. Perfectly fine

      The Angry Video Game Nerd is good since we seem perfectly fine with him

      Covering the next few quick ones

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    • Also. Can y'all Add

      Phil (So You're a Superhero) to the list to be discussed. While, He hasn't got a page yet. I have one prepared. However, I prefer it discussed before I post it so it isn't posted and then immediately deleted.

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    • Buttersamuri wrote: Also. Can y'all Add

      Phil (So You're a Superhero). He hasn't got a page yet. Though I have one prepared. However, I prefer it discussed before I post it so it isn't posted and then immediately deleted.

      On this note, I'm planning to make a profile for Chris Brown (Chris Brown: American Superhero)

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    • NGL. Seeing that really makes me want to make a page on Charlie and the other two unicorns from Charlie and the unicorn. And Llamas with hats.

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    • Buttersamuri wrote: NGL. Seeing that really makes me want to make a page on Charlie and the other two unicorns from Charlie and the unicorn. And Llamas with hats.

      I started on Carl but it fell apart, I can give you my WIP source code for it if you want.

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    • Since Filthy Frank is next I'll give my opinion of him. I believe that he should stay. In terms of story and plot afaik they are pretty consistent. Yes some silly things happen in the series but this sort of thing also happens in AVGN and Nostalgia Critic and we seem fine with those.

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    • I'd reiterate that Filthy Frank shouldn't be on this list, since this profile only covers his book version. Unless we're discussing whether his YouTube videos should get a profile too.

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    • Yeah someone should remove all the non youtube profiles from the list

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    • That's a discussion for a different thread.

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    • Remove Tobuscus then too.

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    • I'm on mobile in a car, someone else do it

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    • Btw Death Mwauthzyx should be fine due to being part of AVGN verse

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    • Not a staff, but just a note that Markiplier Manor was deleted, per request of the creator

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    • Honestly around 3/4 of the OP should be removed, in my opinion.

      I'll comment on them individually later today.

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    • From the list or the site?

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    • HeadlessKramerGeoff777 wrote: Btw Death Mwauthzyx should be fine due to being part of AVGN verse

      He never even appears on YouTube, just the movie and the second game

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    • Yeah, he's not technically a YouTube character but rather both a movie and a game character. But he is a major antagonist that also has some in depth lore about his power.

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    • Should be removed from the list then.

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Phil_(So_You%27re_a_Superhero)

      @Butters, are you literally adding more Youtube Profiles as we get rid of youtube profiles?

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    • I brought it up above because it was already made. And asked for it to be put on the list. I just uploaded it so it can have a link and a look at his summary and such.

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    • Butters, is it just your nature to spam an abundance of random, bottom-of-the-barrel profiles?

      You really could of asked people here about Phil before jumping the gun and making the page.

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    • Oh yea. How dare I make a page on the site where you can Make pages on characters. I'm such a horrible spammer.

      It was a page that would be discussed regardless to posting it or not. It literally only has the effect that now we have the page to look at. I posted it so we have something to look and link to. It's not like it cant be deleted. So don't come at me with the "spam an abundance of random". I'm aloud to make pages. This thread shouldn't Suddenly stop people from making YouTube pages. As long as they are ok under the guidelines, they should be fine. If it's brought up by higher ups to stop making them for the time being, that would be different. But all this thread is for us to discuss the pages. It will be discussed if there's issue. That's why I even brought up the page itself on here. So it could be discussed when we get too it. So Relax.

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    • Phil's page is full of mistakes, regardless of him being a acceptable youtube profile or not, but that's a issue for latter.

      I see that HABIT is on the list. Afaik, he's ok to stay, since he has a situacion that's similar to the Look See. I may be wrong tho.

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    • Buttersamuri wrote:
      Oh yea. How dare I make a page on the site where you can Make pages on characters. I'm such a horrible spammer.

      I know I speak for more than just myself when I say that you bring in many, many pages with very few assets that really make them at all worthwhile on the wiki, and then you proceed to spam them in battles. Some pages are fine. Some pages, such as Phil, are not fine. In the end, you can make characters and spam characters all you'd like.

      But Phil here is pretty blatantly an example of what not to do, and a pretty blatant example of what you do.

      A plethora of powers with little justification, Multiversal AP with poor justification, not to mention doing this literally while we are purging Youtube Profiles, without even asking on the thread if Phil would be fine before making him.

      Stop it.

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    • HABIT has more of a story than any other YouTube character we have so far. The only reason he’d get deleted is if literally all of them, big les included, would get deleted as well.

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    • HABIT is part of a huge ARG that spans across multiple platforms. EverymanHYBRID is a giant story that just uses Youtube as a primary medium, there's no reason for it to not be acceptable.

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    • Yeah, just gor confirmation. It's a horror story that happens over a youtube series. It has ended and it ran for over 8 years.

      It's fine to stay.

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    • I agree about HABIT. Definitely should be fine to stay.


      And @ThePixelKirby

      Multiversal level (Could fight with The Shadow, who's power was capable of destroying universes and rewriting or tear apart the Multiverse, which is described to have potentially millions to billions of universes based on the choices people make, Easily killed The Shadow)

      With the provided links that describe and show this. Yea. Real poor detailing,

      Regardless. Derailing and a conversation for later.

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    • Buttersamuri wrote: Oh yea. How dare I make a page on the site where you can Make pages on characters. I'm such a horrible spammer.

      It was a page that would be discussed regardless to posting it or not. It literally only has the effect that now we have the page to look at. I posted it so we have something to look and link to. It's not like it cant be deleted. So don't come at me with the "spam an abundance of random". I'm aloud to make pages. This thread shouldn't Suddenly stop people from making YouTube pages. As long as they are ok under the guidelines, they should be fine. If it's brought up by higher ups to stop making them for the time being, that would be different. But all this thread is for us to discuss the pages. It will be discussed if there's issue. That's why I even brought up the page itself on here. So it could be discussed when we get too it. So Relax.

      You do realize that we can talk about a character getting a profile without you uploading a half-finished page with poor justifications?

      Just link to the blog/sandbox ffs, don't clutter up mainspace with bad pages.

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    • Well, now that it has been brought up, I think we can address Phil. I've said before, Phil does not meet our standards. His skits supplement the topic of his videos and do not stand as stories on their own.

      What's more, Phil isn't even multiverse level. Quite the contrary, the links you posted don't prove that he's capable of destroying the whole multiverse at once.

      The first link just states that he protects the multiverse. Cool, I could be 9-B and do that too if I hopped around the multiverse and stopped criminals.

      The second link states that Phil's power can tear apart the multiverse. That's pretty vague, and without feats is wholly unquantifiable.

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    • @Buttersamurai

      O what a attitude.

      Do you throw your trash in front of the cleaner too, thinking that if its trash he will clean it up either way? 

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    • Following

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    • Sir Ovens wrote: Well, now that it has been brought up, I think we can address Phil. I've said before, Phil does not meet our standards. His skits supplement the topic of his videos and do not stand as stories on their own.

      What's more, Phil isn't even multiverse level. Quite the contrary, the links you posted don't prove that he's capable of destroying the whole multiverse at once.

      The first link just states that he protects the multiverse. Cool, I could be 9-B and do that too if I hopped around the multiverse and stopped criminals.

      The second link states that Phil's power can tear apart the multiverse. That's pretty vague, and without feats is wholly unquantifiable.

      His skits do have story to them. They aren't random and different characters each time. It's always the same person, same story, consequences carry to other episodes. And he even references past episodes a lot. And a consistent one. Starting out after he destroys the planet. He meets future version of himself telling him his future goes really bad and he came back in time to train him. Which he refuses due to being lazy. Then meets other versions of himself as they go on. All who come back and has to stop this Phil after he goes power crazy. After dividing the power between him and several other vesions. The shadow comes and stars killing off them while stealing their powers and killing them. Who finally leads him to going to the first original Phil. Stealing his power and banishing him. Until he comes back and defeats The Shadow


      There is definitely story there. And quite a bit of it. A lot of setting up, returning characters, consistent characters, and references to other episodes.


      With the Multiversal. Tearing apart the Multiverse isn't vague in this instance. A good example is shown here, in this clip at 4:00. Considering "tearing apart" in this instance resulted in the universe destruction. Tearing apart the Multiverse should mean the same thing. Tearing apart did in fact mean destroy. It's also why the shadow even specifically says after everything shatters. All that will remain is him

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    • Armoured Skeptic does that too, and I explained why he wasn't allowed. It doesn't matter if the skits have a story, they have to not be a part of a topic of discussion. This is the equivalent of having ChrisRayGun as a profile.

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    • @Butters From watching some of his videos, it seems like The Science Asylum except about superpowers instead of science.

      i.e. Youtube videos discussing a topic, each with a few minutes of joke skits per video which loosely tie together into an ongoing plot.

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    • Hey, how about people don't make YouTube profiles while we're trying to figure out what should stay and go on a large scale? Any new files added before this over are just gonna be deleted.

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    • But moved over to a blog first obviously 

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    • I can get the code from deleted files if the user requests is, but seriously don't post these rn.

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    • A little late, but isn't a lot of The Slender Mythos technically fanfic as none of them are the owners of the Slenderman copyright? I mean the only one that isn't is Marble Hornets as while the character in the ARG looks like Slenderman, it isn't and MH iirc has it copyrighted. They have their own movie and comic after all. But most of the Slenderman pages are from people who are just using Slenderman. He isn't in the public domain.

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    • Please try to keep the discussion focused on if the YouTube profiles matter-of-fact should be removed according to our current regulations. Unnecessary arguing is not constructive.

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    • I am just talking about the YouTube profiles. We were literally talking about them. Such as Habit. Though I am a bit behind on the conversation atm.

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    • I was not referring to yourself, just commenting in general, to avoid derailing.

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    • I thought we were suppose to comment our opinions on what should stay and what shouldn't. If it will derail the thread I will stop, just thought was what we were supposed to do.

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    • Again, I was not talking about you.

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    • Again wev've established that Death M. shouldn't be on this list so he can be removed.

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    • Same with F. Frank who is still on the list for some reason.

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    • Not familiar with Sassy The Sasquatch or Cecil, but The Ginosaji is pretty consistent in what he does and the content he originates from is pretty official with it possibly getting a movie in the future.

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    • I will unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message if you need my help later.

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    • Ok see ya.

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    • Alright so I'm gonna try this.

      Goji, Headless, and all of you. Stop derailing the current pages in question. Blindly skipping between pages means none of this gets done and if it gets down to causing enough issues one feels that all of the pages will just go due to an inability to uphold standards for them. We need to keep this thread kept on track. Randomly mentioning a profile you'd like to defend not only doesn't help because we'll have to discuss the character again, it actively hinders the thread by taking up space between relevant discussion.

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    • I fail to see how I was derailing. I did not randomly mention that profile. I mentioned it because it seemed like all the profiles above it with the exception of sassy were solved. Unless you wanted to keep discussing the same characters? The only reason I skipped Sassy was because I have absolutely no knowledge on that character and I wanted to keep the thread going by selecting the nearest profile I had knowledge on so I could properly evaluate it without errors due to lack of familiarity. Sorry if I caused any derailing by doing that.

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    • They weren't saying the pages should be deleted, they said the pages should simply be taken from the OP due to being qualified as okay. Or in Death Mwauthzyx's case; is not technically a YouTube character, but a movie/video game character.

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    • This thread was supposed to be mainly staff only to avoid derailment...

      (Given that I am subscribed to the staff forum, I apparently couldn't avoid notifications from here.)

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    • This entire situation really grinds my gears. I've had enough tolerating this nonsense; it's time to pull this off the site by the roots while it's trying to cling desperately. I'm honestly starting to feel like these profiles are being made for the sole purpose of shitposting or trying to straddle the line of what's acceptable on the wiki and mess with people who want to take the site seriously.

      The fact that we're allowing Smosh Food Battle Profiles on the wiki unironically makes me lose faith in the site as a whole.

      Without further adieu:

      List


      The Nostalgia Critic: Should be deleted. His show has elements of other existing verses, and trying to separate them from his show is like trying to allow fanfiction on the site by carefully editing out references to the work the fanfiction is based on. See below for more stuff on how I think allowing these kinds of profiles does to the perception of our site when we have an entire other wiki (JokesBattles and FC/OC) for this shit.

      Anthony Padilla (Food Battle only): Food Battle version should be deleted. I don't really care that it "technically has a plot". It's borderline shitposting and is not material for our site. It's straddling the line for the sake of straddling the line, so people can make "who would wins" between youtube personas without 'technically' breaking the rules. It's detrimental to how seriously people take our site (spoiler: not much, even now) and I vehemently oppose it.

      Ian Hecox (Food Battle only): See above.

      The Nameless One (CalebCity): Good. I mean, for fuck's sake, it's a bunch of skits.

      The Guitar Guy: See AVGN.

      The Glitch Gremlin: See AVGN.

      Death Mwauthzyx: See AVGN.

      Wilford Warfstache: AKA - "How do we make Markiplier vs. other popular youtubers while skirting around rules and regulations on the site". Delete it.

      The Detective (Who Killed Markiplier?): See above. I mean, if we aren't allowing Markiplier the rest of the gang (who happen to be played by Markiplier and his freinds) shouldn't be allowed because 'wuh-oh they have a different name and costume'.

      Oishi Kawaii: Not familiar enough to really comment, however if she's from a single isolated skit that has a contained plot I can tolerate it. However: Delete the Smosh verse page and it's connection to her page, link her to her skit/series of skits.

      Noodles: See Oishi

      The Angry Video Game Nerd: See Nostalgia Critic.

      HABIT: Don't have enough info, although the page looks suspicious in general.

      Filthy Frank (Francis of the Filth): Oh, come on. Again, I don't care that it "technically has a plot" any more than I care that there's porn verses that "technically have a plot". It sets a bad precedent for the site and turns this into "how we can wank stage/youtube personas while technically abiding by the rules". Fringe pages like this have no right to exist.

      Sassy the Sasquatch

      The Ginosaji: Barely makes it in my book. Considering it was part of a movie pitch, and the video series has a contained plot that doesn't have any personas like Smosh or Markiplier, it's alright.

      Cecil the Sasquatch: I have doubts on using characters from an "Australian Surrealist Comedy" for the purposes of versus debates, but it's better than letting in youtube persona profiles.

      Choomahviathan: See above.

      Leslie Mackerel: See above.

      Clarence: See above.

      Mike Nolan: See above.

      Ellis Warnington: See above.

      Brandon Rogers (Character): Stage/youtube persona trying to skirt around the rules. Delete it.

      Bryce Tankthrust: See above.

      Donna Phitts: See above.

      Eldest Elmer: See above.

      Sam (Brandon Rogers): See above.

      Balgar: Animated youtube series. Seems fine.

      Super Spiro: See above.

      Boris: Confused on this one. Why is it here when CoC is a game verse?

      Green Man (Petscop): Don't know enough on the character.

      Marvin (Petscop): Don't know enough on the character.

      Firey (Battle for Dream Island): Seems like an animated youtube series. It's fine for the same reasons Buggs Bunny is fine.

      Announcer (BFDI): See above.

      Four (Battle for BFDI): See above.

      Markiplier Manor (Who Killed Markiplier?): Youtube persona trying to skirt around the rules. Delete.

      Tobuscus: I mean, for fuck's sake. It's not even trying to skirt around the rules here, delete.

      Smosh (Verse): Shouldn't be a verse, especially if the Food Wars profiles are (hopefully) deleted. We can un-delete it if it hosts enough skits as a profile in the vein of Disney and Dreamworks, but it doesn't really have enough profiles to be here.

      CalebCity (Verse): Collection of comedy skits with no plot that occasionally references other skits. Delete.

      Cinemassacre (Verse): See AVGN. Delete.

      Brandon Rogers (Verse): See the character's namesake. Delete.

      Balgar (Verse): Seems fine.

      Petscop: Don't know enough on the verse.

      Animator vs. Animation: Verse seems fine. Love the series personally.

      Jeff the Killer Saga: Honestly (most) Creepypasta profiles should be on FC/OC for the same reason off-brand SCP profiles are.

      ASDF (Verse): Yeah no. See CalebCity, the ASDF videos don't have a 'plot', they're a bunch of skits that sometimes references previous skits. Delete it and all the pages spammed onto it.

      I Like Trains Kid (ASDF), Mine Turtle, Stegosaurus (ASDF), Mr. Muffin, Do The Flop Guy (ASDF): AKA, more reasons I'm losing faith in this site. Please, delete these.

      Darkiplier: See other Markiplier rule-skirting shenanigans.

      Mephistopheles (Welcome to Hell): Seems okay. Have issues with some of the particulars of the profile but that can be handled in a CRT.

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    • Antvasima wrote: This thread was supposed to be mainly staff only to avoid derailment...

      (Given that I am subscribed to the staff forum, I apparently couldn't avoid notifications from here.)

      Staff haven't been the ones to make many of these profiles, so I've asked the people who did make them to contribute as the thread went.

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    • "The Angry Video Game Nerd: See AVGN."

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    • Dargoo forgot that our argument over AVGN on discord isn't publicly viewable

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    • Jeff the Killer Saga is inspired by creepypasta, as said above, and not the actual stories. Same with The Slender Mythos, The Creepypasta Collection, The Creepypasta Comic, Penpal, Insanity, etc.

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    • CrimsonStarFallen wrote:
      "The Angry Video Game Nerd: See AVGN."

      The issues between him and Nostalgia Critic are so similar I honestly didn't care enough to tell the difference.

      On another note, fixed.

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    • Dargoo is my Champion and voiced everything I wanted to say infinitely better than I could ever do myself.

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    • On another note, i got more stuff on Habit. He's shouldn't even be in here, since his thing isn't exclusive to youtube. And if he is, then Slenderman (EverymanHYBRID) should be too.

      Also, the pages where made by Prom, and i think Ultima is also a supporter, so if you want to fact check, you can ask them.

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    • I agree with everything Dargoo said

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    • Just as an fyi, the Filthy Frank page is for a book that Joji made, not the youtube series

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      CrimsonStarFallen wrote:
      "The Angry Video Game Nerd: See AVGN."

      The issues between him and Nostalgia Critic are so similar I honestly didn't care enough to tell the difference.

      On another note, fixed.

      I refer you to the note on their pages

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    • @Dargoo Okay, I can see your point, but I do think you're overreacting. And honestly, both Sera and Everlasting said that if there's one thing the wiki needs; is that we need to be more open-minded with the introduction of new verses and not discriminate against them for either being niche or being free to watch/play.

      Anyway, I saw no reason for AVGN profile deletions other than See AVGN on both Cinemassacre and AVGN character. We already mentioned that Death Mwauthzyx is not even a YouTube character but a movie character; who also later appears in a video game. We already established elaborate reasonings of having a continuity in that verse among other things. You can argue that some of the feats are inconsistent, but that alone shouldn't warrant a deletion given that Marvel and DC exist. And the majority of the staff at the very least accepted that the video game versions are definitely fine as many fan made RPG Maker games are allowed here. There's also the fact that Cinemassacre has just as much to count as a Publisher as Roosterteeth. It doesn't actually count as "YouTube Persona" but rather than Cinemassacre is a big website where it actually originated before he uploaded his videos on YouTube. EddWorld profiles have been allowed for similar reasons.

      Don't have much else to say for some of the other ones; I have some agreements and disagreements here and there for some of the other stuff, but I disagree with the motivation behind wanting to delete them. You can't just demain profile or verse deletions just because "People want to shit post", because honestly, even a whole bunch of popular verses have shitposters.

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    • Hl3 or bust wrote: Just as an fyi, the Filthy Frank page is for a book that Joji made, not the youtube series

      This

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    • Hl3 or bust wrote:
      Just as an fyi, the Filthy Frank page is for a book that Joji made, not the youtube series

      I honestly don't care.

      The page shouldn't exist for the same reason we wouldn't allow a PewDiePie profile from one of his many, many liscenced and unliscended games.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Hl3 or bust wrote:
      Just as an fyi, the Filthy Frank page is for a book that Joji made, not the youtube series

      I honestly don't care.

      The page shouldn't exist for the same reason we wouldn't allow a PewDiePie profile from one of his many, many liscenced and unliscended games.

      Which are?

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Hl3 or bust wrote:
      Just as an fyi, the Filthy Frank page is for a book that Joji made, not the youtube series

      I honestly don't care.

      The page shouldn't exist for the same reason we wouldn't allow a PewDiePie profile from one of his many, many liscenced and unliscended games.

      Your personal opinion does not matter here, no offense

      Except that we do?

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    • Wilford Warfstache: AKA - "How do we make Markiplier vs. other popular youtubers while skirting around rules and regulations on the site". Delete it.

      The Detective (Who Killed Markiplier?): See above. I mean, if we aren't allowing Markiplier the rest of the gang (who happen to be played by Markiplier) shouldn't be allowed because 'wuh-oh they have a different name and costume'.

      Darkiplier: See other Markiplier rule-skirting shenanigans.

      Sorry again for not being staff, but these are hardly fair judgments. Just because they're PLAYED by Markiplier means none of the characters from Who Killed Markiplier?, a big-production series (with over an hour and a half of content) that very much follows the set rules of the wiki, aren't allowed?

      The wiki doesn't remove people based off who plays them. Just because Mark didn't hire a half-dozen people to play the different characters doesn't mean they're any less valid then anyone

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:

      I refer you to the note on their pages

      Ah, my mistake.

      It wasn't "trying to allow fanfiction on the site by carefully editing out references to the work the fanfiction is based on," it was "trying to allow fanfiction on the site by claiming the references to the work the fanfiction is based on is a result of gag characters being cosmic overlords".

      Robot972 wrote:
      The wiki doesn't remove people based off who plays them. Just because Mark didn't hire a half-dozen people to play the different characters doesn't mean they're any less valid then anyone

      If the profiles perpetuate the same exact issues that having a "Markiplier" profile would, why in the world do we maintain them, even if they aren't 'technically breaking the rules'.

      And I'm not saying "ban characters based on who plays them", but a character played by Markiplier on a Markiplier show about Markiplier is different than, say, Chris Evans playing Captain  America and Human Torch.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote:

      I refer you to the note on their pages

      Ah, my mistake.

      It wasn't "trying to allow fanfiction on the site by carefully editing out references to the work the fanfiction is based on," it was "trying to allow fanfiction on the site by claiming the references to the work the fanfiction is based on is a result of gag characters being cosmic overlords".

      Nice straw man my dude. Unfortunately, that is not what the notes imply.

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    • I'll say right now

      Oishi Kawaii and Noodles is just a literal cartoon/Cartoon also animated IRL. There is 0 reason it should be deleted. It's just a cartoon/IRL you can watch on YouTube. It doesn't even really relate to Amish aside from a meet up in one video. Though that video can be excluded. Since most smosh videos are being denied

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    • Imo, i agree with most of what Dargoo said, except for AVGN and Nostalgia Critic stuff. Characters from other series appearing/being central in their videos shouldn't be a reason for deletion, especially when we don't scale them.

      I mean, Ungalo's power is to summon other fictional characters.

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    • Note: Despite the large number of fictional characters in the Awesomeverse that originate from separate works, these are almost always the result of applications of Toon Force, Reality Warping, Subjective Reality, Immersion, or Plot Manipulation that are in turn a result of character powers or cosmic events. Therefore, characters that appear should not be scaled to the original versions and are not indicative of being a Fan Work.


      Cosmic events are a big part of that and have nothing to do with any particular character except the plot hole.

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    • Oishi High School Battle is perfectly fine. No qualms there.

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    • CrimsonStarFallen wrote: Imo, i agree with most of what Dargoo said, except for AVGN and Nostalgia Critic stuff. Characters from other series appearing/being central in their videos shouldn't be a reason for deletion, especially when we don't scale them.

      I mean, Ungalo's power is to summon other fictional characters.

      And we have that one game verse with Goku as the final boss, so...

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    • If the profiles perpetuate the same exact issues that having a "Markiplier" profile would, why in the world do we maintain them, even if they aren't 'technically breaking the rules'.

      May I ask what these "same exact issues" are?

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:

      Nice straw man my dude. Unfortunately, that is not what the notes imply.

      I'm trying to dose the site with a cold bucket of realizing the issues these profiles perpetuate. How you justify having a video game/movie reviewer as some kind of cosmic gag character on the site isn't really part of my argument except an example of how far we've gone down this rabbit hole.

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    • Also, you people need to chill. There's no need to be this agressive in a topic as stupid as this one.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote:

      Nice straw man my dude. Unfortunately, that is not what the notes imply.

      I'm trying to dose the site with a cold bucket of realizing the issues these profiles perpetuate. How you justify having a video game/movie reviewer as some kind of cosmic gag character on the site isn't really part of my argument.

      The strawman here is that I am even attempting to do that, so your point is moot.

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    • HABIT comes from an ARG called EverymanHYBRID. It's a huge project spanning across platforms and it isn't even exclusively on Youtube (although it is the main medium they use) it's been going on for I think 8-9 years or so. It has it's own plot, narrative and story. It's no different than a Netflix show, or a book, or something they just happen to start it on Youtube because it was easily accessible and free (and the site had already picked up a notoriety for being the place for modern ARGs at the time in the community).

      There is no reason for it to be deleted.

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    • Also last time I checked Filthy Frank was in IMDb.

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    • Yeah, AVGN and Nostalgia Critic both have some rather serious narratives at times. And already mentioned extended merchandise for AVGN about a movie and 2 video games. And that neither verse actually originated from YouTube but rather their own websites no different than RWBY or RvB originating for RoosterTeeth. Also, crossover/cameo characters is also not at all another reason to delete it as South Park exists as well.

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    • The entire series revolves around “cameo” characters. They’re review channels. Heck, one of the profiles on here mentions surviving blows from Bugs Bunny.

      I can think of only one video on the NC channel (that’s not that other series he worked on) that isn’t related to an already existing product.

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    • The real cal howard wrote: The entire series revolves around “cameo” characters. They’re review channels. Heck, one of the profiles on here mentions surviving blows from Bugs Bunny.

      I can think of only one video on the NC channel (that’s not that other series he worked on) that isn’t related to an already existing product.

      Yu-Gi-Oh! does it, Epic Battle Fantasy does it, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure does it, South Park does it, Marvel Comics does it

      It’s not part of every video for sure, and your only looking at it from his section of the verse anyway. Everywhere else, from Linkara’s to Nostalgia Chick’s don’t do that.

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    • Robot972 wrote:May I ask what these "same exact issues" are?

      "Youtube persona fighting youtube persona" and the like.

      There shouldn't be any justifiable scenario where we have a PewDiePie vs. Markiplier fight, for example.

      It also makes the site come off as a joke when we have an alt-site for that, so there's that too.

      DarkDragonMedeus wrote: Yeah, AVGN and Nostalgia Critic both have some rather serious narratives at times. And already mentioned extended merchandise for AVGN about a movie and 2 video games. And that neither verse actually originated from YouTube but rather their own websites no different than RWBY or RvB originating for RoosterTeeth. Also, crossover/cameo characters is also not at all another reason to delete it as South Park exists as well.

      And a broken clock is right two times a day. Simply because the verse occasionally burps out a coherent plot doesn't validate any of the issues the verse presents in the first place.

      For one, RWBY and RvB didn't start out as a movie/game reviewing series, so that comparison is naught.

      South Park is a comedy show that occasionally has crossovers and cameos. AVGN and Nostalgia Critic are essentially entirely crossovers and cameos that is sometimes a comedy show. There's a difference.

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    • False analogy. Occasional references to another series and your series having nothing to do with it is faaaaar from the same as your entire thing is being a reviewer.

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    • @Dargoo

      Again, looking at it in the void of those two sections of the verse is a bad idea. Besides, it’s not nearly as prevalent as you claim, and this would result in major double standards.

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    • The real cal howard wrote: False analogy. Occasional references to another series and your series having nothing to do with it is faaaaar from the same as your entire thing is being a reviewer.

      A reviewer of what is explicitly fiction that can be brought to life by various means, compared to a verse that does the same or even has those beings as a direct part of their verse without being fiction is only a false analogy if we assume the latter is worse because of the second part, otherwise it’s not.

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    • They also have original characters who frequently fight against each other. No one is saying they scale from any of the verses referenced, but they do scale from feats and lore demonstrated within their own verses. NC has characters like Devil Boner, Evilina, and Santa Christ; as well as its own version of Satan. AVGN also has Gaming Glitch Gremlin as an original character, and Fred Fuchs, and Death Mwauthzyx. And there is definitely plot in a lot of their works; especially in AVGN Movie and AVGN Adventures 1+2.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:

      A reviewer of what is explicitly fiction that can be brought to life by various means, compared to a verse that does the same or even has those beings as a direct part of their verse without being fiction is only a false analogy if we assume the latter is worse because of the second part, otherwise it’s not.

      Ask yourself: "is the reviewer still using Fair Use and incorporating elements of established verses over and over again as the premise of their series", and then ask yourself, again "why is this not on FC/OC".

      A fanfiction can also be brought to life through various means, and the characters in it can take on a life of their own. Sadly, the fact that it is fanfiction doesn't change in this transition.

      Yobo Blue wrote: Again, looking at it in the void of those two sections of the verse is a bad idea. Besides, it’s not nearly as prevalent as you claim, and this would result in major double standards.

      You're speaking as if they're small parts of a large verse when the inverse is true: the plots you describe are offshots/small parts of those two sections.

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    • You seem to be starting with the conclusion of "this is all fanfiction and we need to get rid of it immediately" and then try to shame everyone else into agreeing with you rather than actually presenting viable reasons for what you believe.

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    • @Dargoo Than we have to figure out our definition of Fanficition, because otherwise the powers of Immersion and Subjective Reality are unimportant

      Not really? Linkara has way more material, the only difference being those two are more popular. Popularity is a small variable.

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    • We shouldn’t consider bringing characters that aren’t real being brought to life being indicative of a Fanfiction.

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    • fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, etc.

      Going by the basic definition, even something like JoJo is a fanfic, so we obviously cannot use that, so I ask again, what is the definition of a fanfic here?

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    • Nostalgia Critic shot Mary Poppins and fought alongside Katara and Sokka with no reasoning. Also that spiders dude form Lost in Space. And all those traumatized 80s movie protags like the guy from Black Cauldron. No subjective reality, no immersion. Even AVGN had his future counterpart ripped apart by the Bernstein Bears.

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    • Tbf, we allow Light Novels like Jorge Joeaster, Shameless Purple Haze (and the novel Over Heaven would be allowed, if it introduced new characters), which are all basically glorified fanfictions.

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    • In fact, the main cornerstone of Awesomeverse lore, the three movies, all do not feature AVGN, are built around people besides NG, and explicitly establish all those verses as fiction and all inconsistencies as being cause by the cosmic plot hole.

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    • DMB 1 wrote: Tbf, we allow Light Novels like Jorge Joeaster, Shameless Purple Haze (and the novel Over Heaven would be allowed, if it introduced new characters), which are all basically glorified fanfictions.

      The Jojo novels were all supervised by Araki and in Jorge Joestar's case he even drew the art for it

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    • We going back to that other thread when we were repeatedly told what the purpose of this thread was.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote: We shouldn’t consider bringing characters that aren’t real being brought to life being indicative of a Fanfiction.

      Especially given just how many older characters can interact with and enter the real world...

      Because that's one hell of a double standard then.

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Nostalgia Critic shot Mary Poppins and fought alongside Katara and Sokka with no reasoning. Also that spiders dude form Lost in Space. And all those traumatized 80s movie protags like the guy from Black Cauldron. No subjective reality, no immersion. Even AVGN had his future counterpart ripped apart by the Bernstein Bears.

      Again, those were caused by cosmic events that regularly happen in the Awesomeverse. It’s common, for unknown reasons in universe, for characters that are explicitly fiction to come to life when a reviewer is reviewing their material. This is just the way reality works in that verse, and the mere act of reviewing it proves that it is indeed fiction.

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      The Jojo novels were all supervised by Araki and in Jorge Joestar's case he even drew the art for it

      Yes, but not official material.

      On the contrary, AVGN is a copyrighted character.

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    • IMO, copyright is a difficult thing to base this on in the first place, considering public domain verses, how often established verses ignore it, among many other things.

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    • Honestly, all these people are complaining about blurred lines but forget that there aren’t really any clear ones when dealing with fiction, a concept with millions of entries that fall under it and has existed for the majority of the existence of the human race.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:
      @Dargoo

      Than we have to figure out our definition of Fanficition, because otherwise the powers of Immersion and Subjective Reality are unimportant

      Not really? Linkara has way more material, the only difference being those two are more popular. Popularity is a small variable.

      How they incorporate elements of other verses doesn't change the fact that they incorporate elements of other verses, frequently.

      Hl3 or bust wrote: You seem to be starting with the conclusion of "this is all fanfiction and we need to get rid of it immediately" and then try to shame everyone else into agreeing with you rather than actually presenting viable reasons for what you believe.

      Is it not fanfiction?

      Namely because, historically, entertaining this argument only leads to people abusing loopholes in order to make the same exact situation that this thread presents happen again.

      This shouldn't be an issue of "what's technically acceptable on the site", because that issue just makes people find reasons to make the popular profiles "technically acceptable".

      I'm trying to prevent this. We don't want threads like that on the site, otherwise we would have just opened the floodgates to this, so obviously off-brand youtube personas shouldn't fit the bill either.

      Speaking of, let's throw this on the OP and (hopefully) delete it.

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    • Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn’t a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect, but the ones we have shouldn’t be skirted around or made into double standards.

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    • @Dargoo

      Again, using that definition is the worst way to go, because including fictional verses characters written by a fan as automatic fan fiction is not only vague, but includes many, many established verses.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:
      Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn’t a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect

      "Our standards can't be perfect" is not an argument against "our standards can be improved".

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote:
      Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn’t a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect

      "Our standards can't be perfect" is not an argument against "our standards can be improved".

      Unfortunately, that’s not my argument. My argument is that our standards cannot under any circumstances, be double standards, which under your interpretation would be. I’m all for improvement, but this is degradation.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote: Speaking of, let's throw this on the OP and (hopefully) delete it.

      This is YOUTUBE profiles only though.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote: Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn’t a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect, but the ones we have shouldn’t be skirted around or made into double standards.

      Not arguing for either side here, but that argument is bullshit.

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    • Crabwhale wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote: Are we really going to think that we, some wiki run by a bunch of nerds, can suddenly perfectly extricate what is and isn’t a actual fictional verse? Obviously our standards are not going to be perfect, but the ones we have shouldn’t be skirted around or made into double standards.

      Not arguing for either side here, but that argument is bullshit.

      Can you at least explain why?

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:

      Unfortunately, that’s not my argument. My argument is that our standards cannot under any circumstances, be double standards, which under your interpretation would be. I’m all for improvement, but this is degradation.

      How exactly are they double standards?

      I'm looking at the results and additudes these profiles have and will perpetuate, which clearly isn't healthy for the site as a whole. Our site's turning into a joke.

      What's the use of even having standards if they're going to be weaved around to make profiles that clearly shouldn't be allowed on the site, given the attitudes and sentiments expressed on our rules?

      This isn't even improvement, it's an attempt to actually apply the standards we have instead of giving outs for people to just work around them


      On another note, the AVGN and Nostalgia Critic profiles don't even fall under this debate; they're just fanfiction that occasionally has an original plot and should belong on FC/OC regardless of how we treat fringe youtube persona profiles.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote: Is it not fanfiction?

      Namely because, historically, entertaining this argument only leads to people abusing loopholes in order to make the same exact situation that this thread presents happen again.

      This shouldn't be an issue of "what's technically acceptable on the site", because that issue just makes people find reasons to make the popular profiles "technically acceptable".

      I'm trying to prevent this. We don't want threads like that on the site, otherwise we would have just opened the floodgates to this, so obviously off-brand youtube personas shouldn't fit the bill either.

      Speaking of, let's throw this on the OP and (hopefully) delete it.

      Fanfiction is an extension to a fictional universe made by a fan. Nothing from Nostalgia Critic nor AVGN claims to be part of or add to the fictional universe at any point. Very little of anything, if any of it at all, mentioned on this thread is actually fanfiction.

      The issues present with stuff like PewDiePie vs Tobuscus is itself an issue, yes, but singular instances like that don't suddenly make an entire category of pages invalid. Matches like that should probably not be allowed, that i can agree with, but that is an entirely separate issue from the profiles themselves.

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    • The actual standards we have as of now allow for the usage of YouTube

      Besides, the other major argument was a slippery slope and blurred lines, which are obviously merely a symptom of fictions weirdness, nothing that can be controlled by us.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote:

      Unfortunately, that’s not my argument. My argument is that our standards cannot under any circumstances, be double standards, which under your interpretation would be. I’m all for improvement, but this is degradation.

      How exactly are they double standards?

      I'm looking at the results and additudes these profiles have and will perpetuate, which clearly isn't healthy for the site as a whole. Our site's turning into a joke.

      What's the use of even having standards if they're going to be weaved around to make profiles that clearly shouldn't be allowed on the site, given the attitudes and sentiments expressed on our rules?

      This isn't even improvement, it's an attempt to actually apply the standards we have instead of giving outs for people to just work around them


      On another note, the AVGN and Nostalgia Critic profiles don't even fall under this debate; they're just fanfiction that occasionally has an original plot and should belong on FC/OC regardless of how we treat fringe youtube persona profiles.

      We’ve always been a joke.

      Thunder McQueen (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure), Reinhard Heydrich, etc, etc

      It’s hard to call us serious in any matter, really. This is a fun pastime, not a life or death issue.

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    • Besides, by that logic having standards at all is a bad idea since people will just try to skirt around, which is obviously not necessarily the case.

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    • Saying that AVGN and Nostalgia Critic only have occasional plot is a gross distortion of facts tbh. Multiple movies, video games, overarching storylines, plots derived from those. The reviewing is the main thing yeah, but the reviewing doesn’t preclude them.

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    • GojiBoyForever wrote:

      This is YOUTUBE profiles only though.

      Fair enough, although that thread's an example of the precedent these profiles set, anyways

      Yobo Blue wrote: The actual standards we have as of now allow for the usage of YouTube

      Besides, the other major argument was a slippery slope and blurred lines, which are obviously merely a symptom of fictions weirdness, nothing that can be controlled by us.

      And our 'actual standards' allow the usage of internet verses. Doesn't make, say, porn alright for the site. We can allow a medium, and also restrict and control what on that medium comes on to the site.

      It's hard to make a slippery slope argument when we're already at the bottom of the slope to begin with. I'm arguing from hindsight; what these profiles have already done to and on the site, not what they will do on the site.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote: Can you at least explain why?

      That you try to use the "oh we're just a bunch of silly little people arguing chracter's strength" argument. Even if it wasn't intended to be taken that way, it very easily could give off the message of us not being justified in not keeping our standards up just because we're a bunch of "silly nerds".

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    • Actually, we do allow porn verses now, so...

      Good thing I’m arguing against that, since that’s part of Cal’s reasoning.

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    • Crabwhale wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote: Can you at least explain why?

      That you try to use the "oh we're just a bunch of silly little people arguing chracter's strength" argument. Even if it wasn't intended to be taken that way, it very easily could give off the message of us not being justified in not keeping our standards up just because we're a bunch of "silly nerds".

      Straw man my dude. The argument used above was that we can’t be a joke, and I was merely responding to that. It was only a extension of the preceding posts anyway.

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    • And besides, there are other ways of keeping standards without being staunchly trying to keep total seriousness and trying to preclude verses.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:
      Actually, we do allow porn verses now, so...

      In all fairness, that's still being discussed, although we still strictly don't allow "porn with a plot" iirc.

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    • Dargoo Faust wrote:

      Yobo Blue wrote:
      Actually, we do allow porn verses now, so...

      In all fairness, that's still being discussed, although we still strictly don't allow "porn with a plot" iirc.

      True, but that argument can’t really be used if that’s in flux.

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    • Tobuscus shouldn't be considered cause it's a set game with plot, characters, consistency.

      And Toby Turner the YouTuber. And Tobuscus. Are separate people. Just because Tobuscus has videos on YouTube, shouldn't mean his game version can't have a page. And most of Tobuscus videos on YouTube are just cartoons. Animated cartoons which do even connect.

      I don't know what the Pewdiepie game is about. But if it's separate to his actual self as much as Tobuscus is, he should be fine too. As long as we don't start fusing into his real life YouTube and stuff. Just using the Game.

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:

      True, but that argument can’t really be used if that’s in flux.

      Not that it was essential for the point that I was making.

      We still gatekeep on verses on a given medium regardless.

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    • Sure, but that medium isn’t based on what it’s from, which is a big difference.

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