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  • Mickey is obviously at 3-A

    Mickey can use his standard equipment's

    This is Devil May Cry 1 Dante at 3-A

    Dante's Key can be change if wanted

    Speed is equalized

    Who wins and why?

    Devil May Cry DMC1 Dante
    Mickey Thumbnail
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    • Mickey with existencia erase, manipulation of space, manipulation of physics, cancellation of power, sealing, ect. both have a serrano ap so I could not give him a one shot and a lot of his hax would have no effect on Mickey in esccecion of the seal thing that mickey has so I'm going to mickey for his hax and because it's childhood :v

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    • Dante has a massive AP advantage to the point of one shotting

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    • >Sparda form DMC1 Dante 

      Goes for the kill with AP, Mickey revives due to AP and Dante immediately seals.Also is likely to use items and bangle of time due to his attitude here.

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    • So, uhh, Dante one shots for a while then gets bored and seals FRA.

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    • i guess dante FRA considering sparda DT is him fully hell bent to beat u up

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    • Why wasn't Dante vs Sora added?

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    • No, it wasn't.

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    • I know it wasn't

      Why?

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    • Oh, dunno, maybe everyone forgot? Or nobody wanted to see that lose on Sora's profile?

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    • Dante FRA I guess

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    • Dante fra

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    • Bump

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    • BUMP

      2 VOTES NEEDED

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    • Dante FRA

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    • How Dante has the AP advantage?

      Mickey is above baseline

      And the AP change post the KH revisions is why the Sora match was removed.

      (aka, every single 3-A in KH is above baseline, which basically turned the match outdated)

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    • Also, is this King Mickey or Composite Mickey?

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      How Dante has the AP advantage?

      Mickey is above baseline

      And the AP change post the KH revisions is why the Sora match was removed.

      (aka, every single 3-A in KH is above baseline, which basically turned the match outdated)

      Looking through the page history for Dante and Sora I couldn't find didn't find anything about their match up even being added or taken away (even though I remembered it being on their profile). Anyways I tried to look up the AP change for KH but didn't find anything, How far much above baseline is Mickey?

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    • Mickey is a little bit above baseline, but it´s still enought to be a difference

      The scaling chain goes like this:

      Mickey = Sora > Xehanort = Baseline 3-A + countless "worlds" which can be up to 4-A in size

      And the AP change was in another thread, the attemp for tier 2 KH one, which is still 3-A, and so why it isn´t really mentioned in profiles

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    • DMC1 Sparda form Dante is fairly high above baseline 3-A since we got confirmation that the Qliphoth itself was fusing the Human and Demon world.

      The scaling would be like this for Sparda form Dante

      Sparda DT Dante defeating Mundus

      Mundus is equal to Argosax who can passively fuse the Demon and Human world even when sealed in another dimension (Feat above 3-A)

      Mundus eating the Fruit and killing the Demon God 

      Demon God seperating the Human and Demon world (Feat above 3-A)

      Qliphoth passively fusing the Demon and Human world together and producing the Fruit which is stronger than the Qliphoth (Feat above 3-A)

      Baseline 3-A

      Note:Demon world is unknowingly larger than the Human world and even the weakest God tier (Demon God) is above baseline

      Basically Sparda DT Dante can beat a guy, who ate a thing that allowed him to beat a guy, who is already above 3-A by at least 2x

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    • That should at least mean that Mickey isn´t one shotted by AP gap at least.

      Two shooted, on the other hand...

      Second Chance and Once More still cover it, at least.

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    • I don't think so, If Mickey is only equal to Sora who is superior to Xehanort  who is baseline 3-A + countless worlds that are 4-A in size at max.That's only 2x above baseline 3-A compared to Sparda DT Dante being superior to numerous beings who are already 2x above baseline 3-A .

      That's one shot territory.

      I don't know why Dante vs Sora was removed now that I'm thinking about it.

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    • The AP gap for one shotting in Vs. threads is of 7.5 times, then again

      Meaning that it still is not one shotting territory

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    • Dante should be in one shot territory since hes >>>> above baseline 3-A feat.Also, this is DMC1 Dante so he's willing to use Gold Orbs, items, Bangle of Time and will likely go for Sealing immediately if Mickey resurrects or comes back. 

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    • Gold Orbs aren´t standard equipment

      Same for "items", unless you may be more explicit in that

      And Mickey can do Time Stop too

      Oh, and he can just use his Keyblade to open the sealing.

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      Gold Orbs aren´t standard equipment

      Same for "items", unless you may be more explicit in that

      And Mickey can do Time Stop too

      Oh, and he can just use his Keyblade to open the sealing.

      He just has the items as abilities, they are items but also abilities.No need to mention them as Standard Equipment.

      Is he willing to use it just like Dante?

      Depends on what you mean by "open the sealing" because Dante sealing prevents the person from coming back, even those who can open portals or break seals

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    • Gold Orb is completely valid but would be better if we know how many times Dante can use, just like Untouchable

      And yeah, DMC1 Dante is more in character to use Time Stop and Sealing

      Going with Dante FRA

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    • It's a 7-0 lead Dante spanks.

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    • Mickey leads with the time stop

      And again, is this King Mickey or Composite Mickey? This changes the outcome of the match a lot

      And by "Open the sealing", well, Keyblade users are explicitly stated to be able to open and close keyholes, which in this case could be translated to the sealing.

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    • Dante resists Time Stop

      Mundus have Interdimensional Avatar Creation, Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel and he couldn't escape the seal

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    • This is composite Mickey Mouse @Bobsican

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    • So, Dante is argued as one-shotting Mickey? Also, might outskill, their stamina ratings are identical, & he resists Time Stop, can Seal, etc. first. So, isn't that a Stomp?

      Well, stomp or not, I value thoroughness, so I wanna look at what options Mickey has. First off, this isn't just Kingdom Hearts Mickey. If you look at the topics, this is Mickey Mouse (Composite), who's also the Mickey of Epic Mickey, the cartoons, as well as a Jedi Master.

      Also, if OP cares/doesn't know.) (Since they said "Dante's Key can be change if wanted"), the Dante used here, DMC1 Dante, who besides having all of DMC3 Dante's abilities, is:

      7-B in base, 3-A, possibly Low 2-Cwith Sparda Devil Trigger

      That said, I don't know how the Sparda Devil Trigger is, nor how or why it makes the 7-B 3-A. Can someone please explain?

      So, useful stuff for Mickey:

      1. First off, as a Jedi Master, he has Precognition. How does this work?

      2. Mickey's Lifting Strength is Class Mhigher with Force amplification. Dante's in this key is At least Class 5Class G with Sparda Devil Trigger. Since Class M's maximum is the minimum of Class G, & Mickey is "higher with Force amplification", how does Force amp work, & how high into their LS values are they? Because force amp might mean Mickey could be higher. Among other uses, this could allow him to disarm Dante.

      3. Dienomite22 mentioned Dante will go for Sealing if Mickey resurrects or come back. Besides that Mickey doesn't have Resurrection (Unless I missed a hidden link.), how does Dante's Sealing work, & what prompts him to use it?

      4. Does Mickey have the Electro-Box? Probably irrelevant because of how its powers seemed to be used, but OP didn't specify, & his Standard Equipment says: "Keyblade, Paintbrush, Golf club, Lightsaber, Electro-Box, The Great Armor, The Sorcerer's Hat, etc." (Etc.? Seriously?)

      5. Mickey has Existence Erasure with his Paintbrush. As far as I can tell, neither DMC3 nor DMC1 Dante does not resist this.

      6. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mickey hard to kill because of this? Immortality and Non-Corporeal (Types 2 and 8; Lost his heart and doesn't need it to live which somewhat function as a soul. 

      Dante might have NPI for harming Intangible beings (However that works) but Mickey is sort of a Soul without his heart, apparently. Types 2 & 8 Immortality mean:

      2: Resilient Immortality: Characters with this degree of immortality can survive injuries that would otherwise be lethal to a normal person, without needing to heal from it.

      8: Reliant Immortality: The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists.

      So, where's Mickey's Heart in this fight?

      7. Duplication: In theory, enough clones could overpower statistical & skill advantages, especially with speed equalized & every clone being experienced, magical, toon-force having Jedi & Keyblade Masters, making them highly skilled. Also, can Dante seal them all at once, especially if they know it's coming?

      8. Reflega, which can reflect melee & magical attacks, & often makes opponents recoil. Would this work on Sealing? Would make an opening, & also, how well can Dante take his own attacks?

      9. Mickey can inflict statuses, & while Dante DOES resist Paralysis & Fear, he doesn't resist Blindness. And his only Enhanced Sense is "Enhanced Senses (Enhanced Sixth)". How does that work?

      10. Mickey has Statistics Amplification, apparently, as shown here in this comic linked on his profile: https://orig01.deviantart.net/8826/f/2017/057/7/5/boots_by_doctormoodb-db0jgld.jpg Unfortunately, I'm unclear on how it works, & don't speak the language. Might try to translate later.

      11. Does Dante have an answer to this: BFR (Sent Ugrun to the Land of Dreams)?

      12. Mickey can actually outrange. 

      Range: Extended melee range (A couple meters) in regular melee, Planetary with magic and the Force.

      Dante's range is Extended Melee, tens of kilometers with projectiles & energy attacks, Interdimensional with Alastor. What's Alastor & how does it work?

      Not only that, Mickey can pull Dante into one place & trap him in a damaging vortex via Magnega. Even if Dante teleports out, as long as Magnega's point is there, it'll pull him in like it does with other enemies, & he doesn't resist Telekinesis, nor Magnetism, AFAIK.

      It'd make him a very easy target, not to mention, swirling about, meaning he'd have to aim while locked in place & moving in directions he doesn't mean to, for several seconds.... Which is an eternity when the lowest speeds are Massively Hypersonic.

      He can also do something similar, by using Fairy Sketch to make Dante float.

      13. Does Dante have resistance to Broadway Force?

      14. Would Mickey's Breaking the Fourth Wall be relevant here? Ex: Leave the fight's location, & screw with Dante like he does to Pete? Breaking the Fourth Wall (Can leave the cartoon and mess with the screen/frames of animation)

      15. Paint also gives Mickey Morality Manipulation? Does Dante resist that?

      16. Besides Duplication, Mickey has Summoning (Can summon miniature versions of Donald, Pluto, Oswald, and Goofy to help him fight. Can summon magic brooms and the Great Armor when combining its five pieces) Dunno if they're on the same tier as Mickey even, nor if they're ideal distractions. Similarly, Life Manipulation for bringing Brooms to life, so those are additional pests.

      17. Unlike Dante, Mickey has Hammerspace, which may allow him to get around being disarmed if Dante cuts his Paintbrush or something.

      18. Mickey also has: Wish GrantingBiological Manipulation and Power Nullification (Comes from volume 2 of Wizards of Mickey) Dunno how they work, but I'm sure they have some uses.



      So yeah. I don't think this Mouse is COMPLETELY cornered like a rat.

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    • Gosh datum

      1.The ability of foresight was perhaps universal to the Jedi or Force-sensitives and was manifested in the form of Force visions of future events, guiding premonitions or warnings, and an inflow of prescience that helped the Jedi predict their opponent's movements.

      This ability in the Force was not restricted to the Jedi, however, as the Sith also were known to perceive direction and insight from the dark side.


      2. It's a device that could amplify the Force to meet the user's need in every way. It was also the source of force-sensitivity itself. This meant that used properly, it could make people Force-sensitive. It also meant that, if destroyed, Force-sensitivity itself would be destroyed. However, this was made extremely unlikely, for it couldn't be harmed by lightsaber, or any other weapon, such as the Death Star superlaser. It could only be destroyed by the Dagger of Mortis.

      3. The Keyblade's signature ability is the power to open or close any lock or door, be it to a physical object, to the heart of a person or world, or to a gate or pathway between worlds. For objects like treasure chests, this merely requires tapping the chest, while for more magical locks, the Keyblade generally operates by emitting a bright, thin beam of light from its tip, or by being thrust directly into the keyhole or person's chest.

      4. I changed the OP, Mickey is now allowed to use his standard equipment's.

      5. Yes you are right

      6. Yes he's hard to kill, He will come back to life as long as his friend's remember him.

      11. Dante can come back from BFR since he has Dimensional Travel.

      13. No he doesn't but Dante does resist Reality Warp which is Toon Force.

      14. Dante could follow him since he has Dimensional Travel

      15. Dante doesn't resist Morality Manipulation

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    • @Dante Demon Killah

      Can answer rest of the your questions for Dante.

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    • Morality manipulation is mindhax, he resists

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    • Gasp

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    • I'm a lazy fuck so I won't debate that wall of text, others could do it :v

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    • Bump

      So what's the outcome of this match?

      Are the votes for Dante nullified for now, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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    • Argh

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    • I would all of Imaginym's DMC related questions but I simply don't have the time at the moment since I'm busy with real life stuff and GoH profiles, sorry.

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    • Okay...let's go

      7-B in base, 3-A, possibly Low 2-Cwith Sparda Devil Trigger. That said, I don't know how the Sparda Devil Trigger is, nor how or why it makes the 7-B 3-A. Can someone please explain?

      Sparda DT is transformation that Dante can acess with the Devil Sword Sparda, it doesn't have a time limit and it makes him 3-A for fighting Mundus. And he starts transformed here since the OP said "3-A for both", so this isn't that relevant, what you need to know is that Dante is much higher than baseline in this form

      2. Mickey's Lifting Strength is Class M, higher with Force amplification. Dante's in this key is At least Class 5. Class G with Sparda Devil Trigger. Since Class M's maximum is the minimum of Class G, & Mickey is "higher with Force amplification", how does Force amp work, & how high into their LS values are they? Because force amp might mean Mickey could be higher. Among other uses, this could allow him to disarm Dante.

      Higher means that with certain item, skill or power, you are stronger than usual, however we don't know how much the force amps Mickey, and he's not at the limit of Class M just because he is on this Tier, so even with "Higher", Mickey's is Class M while Dante is stronger, so maybe Dante will disarm him here

      3. Dienomite22 mentioned Dante will go for Sealing if Mickey resurrects or come back. Besides that Mickey doesn't have Resurrection (Unless I missed a hidden link.), how does Dante's Sealing work, & what prompts him to use it?

      He uses Ebony and Ivory to shoot a charged bullet which seals the opponent while also sending them into the Demon World, so it's also a BFR. He will use if the opponent can't be defeated by normal means

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mickey hard to kill because of this? Immortality and Non-Corporeal (Types 2 and 8; Lost his heart and doesn't need it to live which somewhat function as a soul.

      Dante can also hurt souls

      Yes, Mickey is hard to kill, that's why Dante will seal him

      7. Duplication: In theory, enough clones could overpower statistical & skill advantages, especially with speed equalized & every clone being experienced, magical, toon-force having Jedi & Keyblade Masters, making them highly skilled. Also, can Dante seal them all at once, especially if they know it's coming?

      He can, his Sealing have a good AOE, it sealed Mundus and this guy is huge

      Knowing what's coming it's going to save you all the time, specially when you don't know how Mickey's Precognition really work, most of them are not applicable on combat

      8. Reflega, which can reflect melee & magical attacks, & often makes opponents recoil. Would this work on Sealing? Would make an opening, & also, how well can Dante take his own attacks?

      It can reflect attacks cabale of one shoting Mickey ? It could work on Sealing but Dante have the Royalguard, which can block any attack even from enemies that can destroy Dante with one punch, so nothing on Dante's arsenal is really dangerous for himself, if he gets BFR'd, he have dimensional travel

      9. Mickey can inflict statuses, & while Dante DOES resist Paralysis & Fear, he doesn't resist Blindness. And his only Enhanced Sense is "Enhanced Senses (Enhanced Sixth)". How does that work?

      It means Blindness it's not going to be effective, DMC characters already showed to see and sense people while kilometers away and even from that distance, they were able to know the person's gender

      12. Mickey can actually outrange.

      It is a good advantage, however you have to remember their AP difference, Mickey is going to have a really hard time to actually hurt Dante, and he even have Regeneration and Royalguard to avoid damage

      Also, Dante can just use the Untouchable to become Invulnerable

      Also also, if this skill is linked to Mickey's AP or Lifting strenght, then Dante is going to escape without problems since he is stronger physically and in AP by a good margin

      If it's not linked, you need to show us some feats, who was defeat or overpowered by this ability, and how he compares to Dante, not having resistance to something doesn't mean you can't escape

      I belive everything else was already answered

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    • Dante and Mickey are 4KM away and Dante can hit that far

      Mickey range spamming that far has literally never happened ever.

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    • Dante range spamming was literally all of DMC2 lmao

      Dante FRA.

      The Sora match should also be added since KH is literally a very, very small amount above baseline 3-A, not a useful amount like some people imply. It would only really matter against people who are baseline, which Dante is always above in all of his 3-A forms.

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    • Dante in AP feels like SSJB Goku all of a sudden.

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    • Not quite, there's still a large amount of people above him, unlike Goku who essetially AP stomps anyone who can't lean onto hax.

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    • Question: How far above baseline? Isn't Mickey barely above baseline, & the minimum for a one-shot something like 7.5 times or above? If Dante's AP in DMC1 scales to his durability, wouldn't that mean he'd be Durable enough Mickey can't harm him?

      And given we don't know where Mickey's Heart is (which is like his Soul), he can't really die to Type 8 Immortality.

      Dante could try Sealing, but Reflega would send his Sealing bullet back at him, & doesn't Mundus resist other means of sealing and have ways to come back? Why would such potent sealing not be game over for Dante?

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    • Why would Reflega reflect it instead of the bullet punching right through it?

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    • Dante has dimensional travel and Royal Guard/His own attack reflection to deal with Relfega. Even if he's sealed he'll just come back because he just rips through dimensions to do so, or the bullet gets ponged between the two of them with their respective attack reflections.

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    • Fyi, dimensional travel doesn't prevent Sealing or allow Dante to escape the Sealing (see Mundus) so Dante can't use that to escape though he can most likely reflect it.

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    • Wait a minute, isn't it that Sparda was sealed in the demonic world and returned after a while, now that I remember that would not give resistance to sealing? or something to counter it?

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    • Schnee One wrote:
      Why would Reflega reflect it instead of the bullet punching right through it?

      Because reflecting projectiles as well as melee attacks is specifically what Reflega DOES?

      Also: "Mundus have Interdimensional Avatar Creation, Portal Creation and Dimensional Travel and he couldn't escape the seal" If Mundus couldn't leave it, why would Dante be able to?

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    • This HAD to exist.

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    • Indeed

      Attack reflection is also potency based

      So, again, what stops Dante from shooting through it with vastly higher AP then what it has showcasing.

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    • Christian Higdon wrote:
      This HAD to exist.

      And your profile pic is just perfect giving the context of this thread

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    • Oliver de jesus wrote:
      Wait a minute, isn't it that Sparda was sealed in the demonic world and returned after a while, now that I remember that would not give resistance to sealing? or something to counter it?

      No, he sealed the demon world with his power and sword inside of it, he lived in the human world until he "died"

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:

      Oliver de jesus wrote:
      Wait a minute, isn't it that Sparda was sealed in the demonic world and returned after a while, now that I remember that would not give resistance to sealing? or something to counter it?

      No, he sealed the demon world with his power and sword inside of it, he lived in the human world until he "died"

      Aaaahhh

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    • Bump

      What are the votes

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    • Already added

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    • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Versus_Thread_Rules

      • When the thread reaches a valid vote count, a grace period of 24 will be acknowledged, starting when the final vote that resulted in valid vote count was posted. After this time period the match can be added, with proper format, to the respective characters' pages, or, for Tier 2 characters or otherwise locked profiles, requested in the Versus Addition Request Thread.\

      I'm not gonna disagree with the vote count, but I saw no acknowleding of Grace. (Also, technically Dante is a possibly Low 2-C in this Key. But not that relevant because specified at 3-A.)

      (Also, if voting does end up open because of the failure to follow VTF by not acknowleding grace: Mickey isn't dying because of Type 8 & Jedi Master Precognition, & him barely being able to hurt Dante but Dante being much more dangerous to him means he'd be more likely to use his Existence Erasure first. Dante would barely be taking damage and each hit he does to Mickey would seem much stronger; He doesn't KNOW Mickey has Type 8. Also, Duplication & Magnega, & the duplicates could just move out of the sealing's range or teleport. Also, there's arguably some precedent for Reflect working against stronger attacks, since Sora's Reflect spells work on Twilight-Xemnas, the strongest character in the 'verse at the time, who took on both Sora and Riku both at once.)

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    • Grace doesn't have to be acknowledge if a most if not all of the users onesidely vote on a particular character.

      But to respond to your points.

      Dante doesn't need to know Mickey has Type 8 blah blah or any other things.Once Mickey revives Dante would go for sealing since his opponent can resurrect/can't die/is too strong etc.And Dante has multiple ways to make it hard for Mickey to move or out right stop him.Duplication (can create a perfect copy of himself),Time stop, Time slow, Teleportation and BFR.Mickey has ways of winning but it only works if Dante chooses not to seal after killing Mickey, which is highly unlikely or Mickey using EE which can be countered by Dante just time stoping/slowing and sealing anyway.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      Grace doesn't have to be acknowledge if a most if not all of the users onesidely vote on a particular character.

      But to respond to your points.

      Dante doesn't need to know Mickey has Type 8 blah blah or any other things.Once Mickey revives Dante would go for sealing since his opponent can resurrect/can't die/is too strong etc.And Dante has multiple ways to make it hard for Mickey to move or out right stop him.Duplication (can create a perfect copy of himself),Time stop, Time slow, Teleportation and BFR.Mickey has ways of winning but it only works if Dante chooses not to seal after killing Mickey, which is highly unlikely or Mickey using EE which can be countered by Dante just time stoping/slowing and sealing anyway.

      Type 8 is NOT Revival, it's Immortality; To kill him, you need to get rid of his Heart, which he doesn't have. Mickey does not HAVE Resurrection. (He does have High-Mid Regeneration, however. Would Dante's AP difference make him reduce a comparatively weak enough opponent to mince meat or more thoroughly destroyed?) And Mickey is statistically, weaker; How do you tell apart someone who's weaker than you & who has a lot of stamina from someone Immortal?

      Also, I'm curious about his Resistance to Time Stop.

      Darkness ManipulationTime Stop and Extrasensory Perception (With Devil Sword Sparda, should have similar powers to his father, the Sparda Sword can also hide Dante's presence)

      From his Standard Equipment: After absorbing both Rebellion and Sparda, Dante's main weapon is the Devil Sword Dante, alongside his pistols and the shotgun

      From his Attack Potency:

      Universe level, possibly Universe level+ (Absorbed the Devil Sword Sparda and Rebellion into his body, creating his own Devil Sword, allowing him to be capable of defeating Urizen even after he ate the Qliphoth's Fruit. Comparable to Vergil), bypasses durability to an extent by destroying his enemies from the inside with Sin Devil Trigger

      That quote is from his Devil May Cry 5 Key.

      So, the thing that gives him his Time Stop Resistance isn't something he's absorbed yet (Although it is his default weapon in DMC1, no?), & could be disarmed from him via Magnega or Telekinesis? And Mickey has Time Stop as well....

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    • Mickey FRA

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    • This was already added tho

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      This was already added tho

      The debate hasn´t ended yet

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    • I don't really see much of a debate

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      I don't really see much of a debate

      Well, some points that before were for Dante got rendered null, which also arguably invalidates some votes in the process.

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    • @Imaginym

      Doesn't matter, Dante hits Mickey, he regnerates,doesn't die or whatever.Dante goes for sealing

      DMC1 Dante is 3-A via Sparda meaning this Dante is using Sparda (otherwise he wouldn't be 3-A) so he's naturally resistant to it.

      DMC5 Dante absorbs the Sparda and Rebellion into his body meaning he gained it's resitances and properties for himself allowing him to use other weapons and what not while still being resistant to Time Stop, Darkness manipulation,ESP.

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      Tony di bugalu wrote:
      I don't really see much of a debate
      Well, some points that before were for Dante got rendered null, which also arguably invalidates some votes in the process.

      Which ones?

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    • I don't see any point for Dante rendered null, mind pointing them?

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    • None of the votes were "Rendered Null" just because someone disagrees.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @Imaginym

      Doesn't matter, Dante hits Mickey, he regnerates,doesn't die or whatever.Dante goes for sealing

      DMC1 Dante is 3-A via Sparda meaning this Dante is using Sparda (otherwise he wouldn't be 3-A) so he's naturally resistant to it.

      DMC5 Dante absorbs the Sparda and Rebellion into his body meaning he gained it's resitances and properties for himself allowing him to use other weapons and what not while still being resistant to Time Stop, Darkness manipulation,ESP.

      Dante goes for Sealing, Mickey sees him readying a charged shot (Whether normally or via Precognition), & dodges, gets out of ranged, disarms, uses telekinesis, Magnega, Fairy Sketch, blinds, summons clones, breaks the fourth wall by leaving the fiction & screwing with the frame before Dante finishes charging , etc.

      Or heck, while Dante's charging, Mickey slaps him with his paintbrush to EE.

      And that's assuming Reflega DOESN'T work on higher AP attacks, despite that: "Some common limitations include only working on attacks of a certain type or power level, a lengthy preparation time, or a specific requirement for use. "

      Common Limitations as in, that's not necessarily the case for all AR. Sora can AR Sephiroth's attacks, Sora & Riku can AR Twilight Xemnas's attacks, Lingering Will can AR Terra-Xehanort's attacks (Despite LW being only Terra's Keyblade Armor and will/rage, Terra-Xehanort having control of Terra's body, Xehanort's power, & restraining Terra's Heart.), & Aqua can Attack Reflect Ventus-Vanitas with the Incomplete X-Blade, as well as AR Terra-Xehanort's attacks, among other examples.

      So I'm skeptical the Reflect spell breaks under AP that's similar but higher.

      The only time a Reflect spell has been shown to be broken is when it bursts as it's intended to, when deflecting a melee attack; When it reflects projectiles, it flashes, & deflects multiple.

      In any of those cases, there's still a Mickey that isn't sealed. And yes, this Dante IS using Sparda. I said that; My point was Dante hasn't ABSORBED Sparda, & it can be taken out of his grip.

      "DMC5 Dante absorbs the Sparda and Rebellion into his body meaning he gained it's resitances and properties for himself allowing him to use other weapons and what not while still being resistant to Time Stop, Darkness manipulation,ESP."

      That was my point. This is NOT DMC5 Dante, it's DMC1 Dante, so his resistance is based on him having the Sparda Devil Weapon.

      (Also, this doesn't cover the matters of Mickey's Wish Granting, Biological Manipulation and Power Nullification, which could be relevant if it was known how they worked.)

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    • Dayun

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      I don't see any point for Dante rendered null, mind pointing them?

      What Imaginym said.

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    • @Imaginym

      Only possible if Dante doesn't stop time or react at all.

      Sealing isn't that slow.

      I don't know what this is about.I don't remember arguing reflega stuff or talking about it myself.

      So Dante has resistance to time stop in this match.Unless your trying to say something else?

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      Tony di bugalu wrote:
      I don't see any point for Dante rendered null, mind pointing them?
      What Imaginym said.

      which one

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    • Both really.

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    • So, how do you think that Mickey can take out the sword from his hands?

      Telekinesis, take it by force, magnega? Dante having a higher lifting strength says "no"

      Dante can summon an exact clone of himself which means more AP destroying Mickey if he sees a great amount of clones surrounding him.

      Can Mickey see/think/act while lacking a body? because with the AP difference he will get completly destroyed for quite some time until Dante seals.

      How high is xehanort again? because Dante has the ap by a scaling chain that goes by one shoting the weaker guy.

      Argosax does the feat sealed and a universe away with just his presence, the Despair is way stronger as it is his full power, Mundus is comparable and he himself killled the previous Demon God who separated the universe into 2, and most of them are stronger than the tree/fruit which grants 3-A powers.

      If he isn't that high then the "shield" that relfects attacks gets destroyed and gg.

      Yes, some of Dante's resistances are reliant on him having the sword but mickey taking it from him seems impossible (especially when Mundus didn't even tried it)

      Dante resist Biological manip, and I don't think power null can dissolve such a AP gap.

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      Both really.

      what's "both"?

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    • All of his arguments really, Dienomite22

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    • Bobsican wrote:
      Mickey is a little bit above baseline, but it´s still enought to be a difference

      The scaling chain goes like this:

      Mickey = Sora > Xehanort = Baseline 3-A + countless "worlds" which can be up to 4-A in size

      And the AP change was in another thread, the attemp for tier 2 KH one, which is still 3-A, and so why it isn´t really mentioned in profiles

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    • A little bit above baseline then, he gets one shoted and this attack reflection bypassed.

      Also, all of his arguments have been rebuted by others already.

      And lastly, this was already added and nothing new is being bringged to the table, should we continue or get it closed?

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    • @Bobsican 

      Lol, no.which specific argument?Because if all of their arguments rendered Dante votes nulled then everyone would've either switched to Mickey or agreed that Dante's votes are invalid.

      Also, I already addressed Mickey's AP (that exact post you reposted), it isn't enough and hes still one shotted

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    • Mickey still has precog, again, meaning that he can also use his hax as needed.

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    • Useless if he gets destroyed by the first attack and the subsecuent barrage of attacks going on.

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    • Uhhh

      Grace was over 3 Days ago

      And the debate continues since and most arguments were contested anyway

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    • I guess this can be closed then, unless Imaginym has something more to bring up.

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    • Bring it up on the removal thread

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    • "And I pointed out that Reflega has worked on opponent's with higher or similar AP to the user.

      Also, by saying that, do you mean to say that you dismissed ALL of the arguments, Schee One? I hadn't even posted about the issue of sealing's range vs movement speed in the thread yet, nor about how Dante's Sealing may have been amped by Trish giving Dante her powers. Retconned by DMC5, I used the same argument before for another topic but Dante's sealing was retconned to be via Sparda's power."- Imaginym

      Trish's power having a part in sealing was retconned by DMC5, I used the same argument before for another topic but Dante's sealing was retconned to be via Sparda's power.

      Dante wasn't voted for Via AP against type 8 immortality.He was voted for because he could AP smack Mickey which means Mickey then revives or is unaffected or whatever due to type 8 Immo and then Dante goes for sealing.

      Also you fail to mention that Dante himself has myriad of ways of slowing Mickey and outright stopping him (via time stop).Your points rely on Dante not reacting to Mickey for some reason.  

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    • That's pretty much all I've got to say on this match up.

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    • Thank you for re-opening, @Schnee One.

      What is the range of Dante's Time Stop? How long does it last? How is it activated?

      Under what circumstances does he use Sealing? Has he used it on anyone but Mundus, who was a demon from a demon world that he used the sealing to send Mundus back to the Demon World via, and Mundus was a demon who had caused him trouble numerous times in the past? Hadn't that been after a long & grievous battle?

      Which ways of slowing him down? Are they the same range as his projectiles/energy attacks? When does he use them?

      There's also the problem of Mickey's in a worse position than Dante: Dante can't kill Mickey because Immortality/Regeneration/Precognition/Duplication/Teleportation/better range/skill.

      But Mickey can barely hurt Dante, & each attack from Dante hits him much worse than Mickey's do to Dante; Why would HE be less likely to go for something like his Existence Erasure first?

      Which he'd be in range to do with his paintbrush if Dante is sword-fighting.

      In a gun fight, Mickey could be inclined to dodge & stay back using magic/telekinesis, where he has the range advantage by far. In fact, if Mickey were in a ranged fight, he could use his telekinesis on Dante's projectiles while casting magic. Like, for example, Dante's bullets he uses for sealing.

      Are Dante's bullets & guns as durable as he is?

      Can Dante use his TK AND fire both at once while dealing with magic?

      Besides that, wouldn't he be more likely to be using his sword than his guns in close range, where Mickey's paint-brush can one-shot him?

      Also, what's Dante's answer to being forced to float via Gravity Manipulation forcing him to float? Or Broadway Force?

      There's Mickey's Statistics Amplification, which I'm unclear on the workings of due to language.

      Also, I wonder how Dante's guns/bullets would work if brought to life & Morality Manip'd or Jedi Mind Tricked. Heck, do they function if petrified?

      Also, is Dante going to be using his senses when his opponent is right in front of him? What if he'd blinded? Why would his senses work on things stopped in time, if they're even in his range?

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    • >What is the range of Dante's Time Stop? How long does it last? How is it activated?

      It is assumed every time stop is universal as per standars IIRC unless shown otherwise. Unknown, with game mechanichs I could keep it all day. Though based.

      >Under what circumstances does he use Sealing?

      Against a being who he can't kill on his own, exactly like Mundus and Mickey who will just come back after being smacked around. There wasn't a rilvary before, I even doubt Dante knew Mundus destroyed his family past the encounter with Trish and in the final battle everyone thought he was dead.

      >Which ways of slowing him down?

      Quicksilver, one of his styles from younger years, works on thought and some could arguee its a time stop too. He did it for the lolz when he got it.

      >There's also the problem of Mickey's in a worse position than Dante

      The only things that pose a treat are his type 8, regen (that is moot thanks to LOLAP!), and probably range. 

      >But Mickey can barely hurt Dante, & each attack from Dante hits him much worse than Mickey's do to Dante; Why would HE be less likely to go for something like his Existence Erasure first?

      With the AP gap mickey will become less than mush in the first hit and if he tries to parry/stop one attack his arms will get destroyed and maybe the paint brush as well

      >In a gun fight, Mickey could be inclined to dodge & stay back using magic/telekinesis,

      Dante in this form can summon a dragon that literally destroys Mundus forcefield and rekts him, Mickey isn't going to stop that, and on top of having a lot of more ranged weapons that are actually amped to his level means Mickey will get bombarded if he tries to play long range.

      >Are Dante's bullets & guns as durable as he is?

      He can amp his weapons to his level

      >Can Dante use his TK AND fire both at once while dealing with magic?

      Already done something like it, for the lolz but he doesn't need to when he can literally destroy mickey with one swing.

      >Besides that, wouldn't he be more likely to be using his sword than his guns in close range, where Mickey's paint-brush can one-shot him?

      In short combat, which he preffers, Mickey will get destroyed and the paint brush will get destroyed too and with that he loses the EE.

      >Also, what's Dante's answer to being forced to float via Gravity Manipulation forcing him to float?

      FLY

      >Or Broadway Force?

      Dunno, how it works?

      >There's Mickey's Statistics Amplification, which I'm unclear on the workings of due to language.

      How big? Big enough to overcome the AP gap? 

      >Also, I wonder how Dante's guns/bullets would work if brought to life & Morality Manip'd or Jedi Mind Tricked. Heck, do they function if petrified?

      Dante resist mind manip, I dunno if you can mind manip bullets tho. Dante resist petrification.

      >Also, is Dante going to be using his senses when his opponent is right in front of him? What if he'd blinded? Why would his senses work on things stopped in time, if they're even in his range?

      If the oponent is in front of him then he swings and done, if he is blinded he has extrasensory perception to deal with it. He resist time stop, range is universal as per standars IIRC unless shown otherwise.



      Now, why was this opened again?

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    • @Imaginym

      Imma keep this brief.

      Universal range, dependant on his DT so a long time, instant

      When his opponent can't be killed or he's out of options.He used Sealing on Mundus and BFR on Arkham, Mundus wouldn't die and relied on Dante being weaker in the human world (this weakness doesn't exist anymore) so Dante had to use sealing them.Arkham was stronger than both Dante and Vergil so Dante used BFR then, functionally the same but people consider them seperate abilities for reason.

      Time stop, Time slow (instant, universal), Doppelganger(self-explanatory, is a perfect copy of Dante), Aura (would essentially be ""killing"" (I know type 8 immortality) Mickey once in range), AOE (for the same reason as Aura) and telekinesis if he wants although it's OOC.

      Skill is arguable, range isn't important since Schnee already said Mickey doesn't snipe in character and it's not like they won't be able to hit each other at the start of the battle, Regneration and immortality doesn't matter with sealing and it's the exact reason why Dante would go for sealing so it isn't a plus please stop mentioning it when it keeps getting shot down and Duplication and teleportion gets easily countered by Dante's own. 

      Because it's OOC for him normally and he doesn't know Dante resists a bunch of moves so he's likely to try to use more common in character hax first.

      They both are in a range that they both can hit each other and Dante can you know, move/time slow/stop time.

      Not with Dante's lifting strength being higher and time stop and blah blah blah

      they are infused with his magic so most likely 

      yes

      depends, he can use guns at close or long range.And once again, Dante would go for sealing after not being able to kill Mickey once.

      they are infused with his energy so they probably won't work

      he can fight in comeplete darkness and can naturally sense opponents.Dante can move in stop time so yes.

      (please don't ask indepth questions on each of the abilities I mentioned, just look them up on the DMC wiki)

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    • Imaginym wrote:

      Also, what's Dante's answer to being forced to float via Gravity Manipulation forcing him to float? Or Broadway Force?

      Broadway Force was already stated above to not work.Toon Force is a form of Reality Warping and Broadway force is a subset of that, Dante resists reality warping.Gravity Manipulation and TK are countered by lifting strength which Dante is higher than Mickey in, also he would just fly tbh.

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    • "It is assumed every time stop is universal as per standars IIRC unless shown otherwise. Unknown, with game mechanichs I could keep it all day. Though based."

      There are NO visual indicators for what entities Time Stop is affecting, nor where it is active in gameplay?

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3293424#20

      So the scaling chain goes?: Qliphoth passively fused Demon & Human world which are 3-A together. Demon God separated the worlds (Did Qliphoth try to stop this with its own power at the time?). Mundus ate the Fruit and killed the Demon God. (How did this fight go? Was there effort from either side?). Sparda Devil Trigger Dante beats Mundus with great effort, & ultimately Seals rather than kills.

      "When his opponent can't be killed or he's out of options.He used Sealing on Mundus and BFR on Arkham, Mundus wouldn't die and relied on Dante being weaker in the human world (this weakness doesn't exist anymore) so Dante had to use sealing them.Arkham was stronger than both Dante and Vergil so Dante used BFR then, functionally the same but people consider them seperate abilities for reason."

      Didn't Mundus's fight take a great deal of time and effort on Dante's efforts before he resorted to Sealing instead of trying to kill? Heck, what stops him thinking he can get Mickey to stay down by exhausting him or "maybe he can only come back so many times"?

      "Because it's OOC for him normally and he doesn't know Dante resists a bunch of moves so he's likely to try to use more common in character hax first."

      And Dante fought Mundus prolongedly before trying to Seal him,

      What are the conditions for use of Doppelganger? How many clones can he make? Also, do you mean THIS Doppelganger? https://devilmaycry.fandom.com/wiki/Doppelganger

      "Skill is arguable, range isn't important since Schnee already said Mickey doesn't snipe in character and it's not like they won't be able to hit each other at the start of the battle, "

      Okay, let's argue skill. Mickey is a Jedi Master, has all of his Epic Mickey Experience, all of his cartoon & other media experience, & in Kingdom Hearts alone, is a True Keyblade Master who has been fighting off Organization XIII, hoardes of Heartless, Nobodies, likely Unversed, and other evils (Including in the Realm of Darkness, where Heartless are more numerous and at their strongest.), for nearly 12 years. Precognition also helps give him an edge in combat.

      The Star Wars Wiki's page says about him: 

      Mouse, being a Jedi Master,[2 showed exceptional skills and devotion to the Force, as well as great talent in lightsaber combat.[7] In spite of his small stature, he was powerful.[2] He was also a capable pilot, as he could fly an Eta-2 Actis-class interceptor.[12]] [2] showed exceptional skills and devotion to the Force, as well as great talent in lightsaber combat.[7] In spite of his small stature, he was powerful.[2] He was also a capable pilot, as he could fly an Eta-2 Actis-class interceptor.[12]

      Mickey might not "snipe", but dodging, staying out of range of your opponent's attacks, and using your ranged attacks is a very simple tactic, & Mickey has used his ranged attacks to fight. (Also, I'm unsure what Schnee's basis for that claim of not using ranged attacks to fight is.)

      "Duplication and teleportion gets easily countered by Dante's own."

      https://orig14.deviantart.net/f7c1/f/2016/169/7/c/mickeymultiplies_by_doctorworm1987-da6pumn.gif

      Has Dante ever made an army of clones of himself in seconds? Also, his Teleportation has shorter range.

      "Dante resist mind manip, I dunno if you can mind manip bullets tho. Dante resist petrification."

      I wasn't saying petrify Dante. I was saying petrify his guns. Alternatively, bring them to life, command them like he did with brooms, & tell Dante's guns to shoot him and Mickey has done things like tell inanimate objects to do work for him.

      "In short combat, which he preffers, Mickey will get destroyed and the paint brush will get destroyed too and with that he loses the EE."

      And then Mickey dodges or comes back to life after Dante thinks he's dead, pulls the paint brush out of his pants anew with Hammerspace & smacks again.

      And yes, Dante CAN shoot his Sealing bullets, but Mickey move further than Dante's range with them than in 1 second, as well as teleport slightly over 100 times their range. If Dante's guns are working, they're not likely to hit.

      There's also the matter of Mickey possibly Time Travelling to get rid of Dante in the past, given he has the Electro Box, but I'd say that's OoC.

      Regarding the dragon: How big? How is it summoned? I already tried looking it up on the DMC Wiki.

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    • @Imaginym

      Final reply.

      Universal.That's it.

      Qliphoth is a demonic tree that creates the Fruit, the Fruit, when eaten,  gives a demon a massive boost of power. We don't know how Mundus vs Demon God went down.The important part of the scaling was to show how fodder are already above baseline 3-A.Demon God and the Qliphoth are fodder.Sparda didn't have trouble again'st Mundus, infact Sparda is a beast, he himself single handly went against the entire Mundus and the entire demon world and is implied to stomp them.Sparda is strong.

      Dante was superior to Mundus and thought he killed Mundus in his pocket dimension so he didn't see a reason to seal Mundus so Dante returned to Mallet Island and was about to leave when Mundus opened a portal to the Human World and took advantage of Dante being tired and weaker in the Human World (retconned weakness) so Dante had no choice but to seal him.

      ^

      Nothing, instant.1 clone.Kinda, Dante absorbs Doppelganger which allowed him to create a perfect clone of himself.

      Dante is supernaturally gifted at fighting all mannered of beings.Fought constantly since his pre-teens, constantly faces beings with 1000+ years experience above him and defeats them, can defeat creatures who are made from his families battle data in his he early teens,can fight creatures who mimic his entire moveset, can use any weapon he picks up to perfection, knowledgeble about nearly everything demon related, etc.

      something Dante can do aswell.

      Nope, impressive but requires Dante to do nothing in order to happen, timestop deals with this easily.Dante's teleportation is interdimensional.

      won't work.Dante's guns are infused with his magic

      lol what, Dante is gonna allow that to happen and he would see Mickey regenerate so it would be obvious he isn't dead.

      No, Dante has superior teleportation range.And can literally do the exact same thing except with time stop plus sealing

      The Dragon is larger than Dante and Mickey and is about a 15-20 meters long.

      Most if not all of your points rely on Dante not responding or countering Mickey and Mickey just using "X" to win.Mickey could probably 2/10 matches and that's only if Dante acts stupid or doesn't act at all, which he more than likely won't considering DMC1 Dante is serious.Please stop saying Mickey will possibly doing this or that without acknowledging what Dante will do as a response.This is my final post about this match up.

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    • @Dienomite22: Sorry to have been so unpleasant you're unwilling to continue this debate. If you do decide to return, or someone else wishes to debate in your place, however....

      Why didn't Dante just Seal Mundus when he proved a challenge and was already giving a lengthy battle, then? BEFORE he went to Mallet Island? Why let the fight be prolonged & just kick him out of his pocket dimension with Sealing sooner?

      I'd say Dante's threshold to resort to sealing isn't so short.

      "constantly faces beings with 1000+ years experience above him and defeats them"

      Who/What are these beings and are these years combat experience?

      "something Dante can do aswell."

      "Nope, impressive but requires Dante to do nothing in order to happen, timestop deals with this easily.Dante's teleportation is interdimensional."

      I'm not sure what you're referring to here, in either of those cases, sorry to say.

      "No, Dante has superior teleportation range.And can literally do the exact same thing except with time stop plus sealing"

      How do you figure? From Dante's own page:

      Varies from extended melee range to tens of kilometers with projectiles and energy attacks, Interdimensional with Alastor (Alastor was able to sense Nero Angelo's presence despite him being in the mirror dimension) and Dimensional Travel

      "Dante is gonna allow that to happen and he would see Mickey regenerate so it would be obvious he isn't dead."

      Unless he's A. Preoccupied dealing with other attacks or spells (Such as Magnega, summons, life manipulated objects, or clones, which function independently.) B. Already convinced Mickey's dead because he just sliced him to mince meat or turned him to mush; Wouldn't a reasonable opponent think their opponent is thoroughly dead and leave?

      And also when has he used both Time Stop AND Sealing both at once?

      He can't kill Mickey through brute force, so ONLY Time Stopping only keeps Mickey dead as long as time is stopped, & there's several ways to dodge the bullets if it isn't, such as teleporting.

      In any case, thank you for what debate you've provided so far. It's been engaging.​​​​

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    • @Imaginym

      You aren't unpleasant, I am just trying to avoid getting too into this discussion since I want to work on GoH profiles.I don't want you to feel like you've did something wrong because you didn't.I'll address only a few points of yours and then I'm done.

      "Who/What are these beings and are these years combat experience?"

      Mundus , nearly demon in DMC, most bosses from the dmc3 manga, dmc3 and dmc1.

      "I'm not sure what you're referring to here, in either of those cases, sorry to say."

      were in response to this:

      Mickey might not "snipe", but dodging, staying out of range of your opponent's attacks, and using your ranged attacks is a very simple tactic, & Mickey has used his ranged attacks to fight. (Also, I'm unsure what Schnee's basis for that claim of not using ranged attacks to fight is.)

      "Duplication and teleportion gets easily countered by Dante's own."

      https://orig14.deviantart.net/f7c1/f/2016/169/7/c/mickeymultiplies_by_doctorworm1987-da6pumn.gif

      Has Dante ever made an army of clones of himself in seconds? Also, his Teleportation has shorter range.

      "How do you figure? " (about Dante's teleportation range being better)

      Dimensional Travel is the ability to move through alternate universes (or "dimensions"), crossing over across different planes of existence to reach other, far-off locations. This is rarely an ability on its own, often being achieved through other means such as Teleportation used to teleport into other universes, and Portal Creation used to open doorways into these universes.

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    • @Dienomite22: Thank you for that consolation. I'm glad we're able to be formal despite our differing positions on this debate. (Also, while I'm not entirely convinced enough to change my stance, supposing Dante does get this win, I'll offer my congratulations to another win on Dante's profile, & the first match result on Composite Mickey's profile. For these versions of their profiles, anyway.)

      Regarding his Dimensional Travel:

      "Dante has dimensional travel and Royal Guard/His own attack reflection to deal with Relfega. Even if he's sealed he'll just come back because he just rips through dimensions to do so, or the bullet gets ponged between the two of them with their respective attack reflections."

      It sounds like Dante's Dimensional Travel is achieved by tearing open holes in the dimension, or destroying it. How does he know where he's returning to in this dimension? Where is Alastor at this time? It's not in his Standard Equipment.

      "Who/What are these beings and are these years combat experience?"

      Mundus , nearly demon in DMC, most bosses from the dmc3 manga, dmc3 and dmc1.

      (I believe you forgot a word near "nearly".) Also, isn't Dante vastly superior, in statistics especially, when he fights them, Mundus & bosses (presumably) aside? And are their 1000+ years combat experience?

      (I also don't know DMC well, so I'm not sure how... I presume you mean "nearly every" demon has 1000+ years of experience.)

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    • Bump

      Does anyone even know the vote count...

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    • This was added like 4 days ago

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:
      This was added like 4 days ago

      That doesn´t mean the debate is concluded already

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    • All the post had been refuted and there is nothing to contest, but if you want to keep beating a dead horse then go ahead.

      ¿Cómo es el dicho? ¿Solo son los pataleos de un muerto? Algo así.

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    • A FANDOM user
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