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  • Antvasima
    Antvasima closed this thread because:
    14:06, July 15, 2019

    So in WN after stories we get introduced to a mobius system:

    ."Infinite institution Mobius System- It is a system of dreams created by genius scientist Almubain.

    Continue to produce energy permanently in an endless cycle by a theory different from the nucleus."

     "But, What is Mobius System?

     What kind of joke is a black hole like a power reactor?

     I do not understand what it means.

     Is the scientific power of this world so terrible?

     I mean, how do you do that with energy -

    "That is, in one kind of phase conversion power reactor -"

     Briefly, easy to understand, please briefly.

    "... .... Simply put,Gravity Collapse It is a mechanism that utilizes the phenomenon that when the substance falls into it, its mass is reduced to energy. twoTorus'torus'It seems that it was thought that mutual interference interferes with using, and in theory it can generate energy indefinitely. However it is far from perfect, it seems that it is a dangerous and extreme substitute "

    Ciel's explanation is difficult.

    Sure enough, it was a brief explanation, but I understood somehow.

    In other words, it was an unfinished item.

    The engine is not perfect, the engine has runaway and it got in the present state - it is enough if you can understand it.

    If this continues to runaway with the scale expanded as it is, it will swallow this universe.

    If so, will it affect other dimensions?

    "No, it does not affect other dimensions. Only this universe loses its growth rate and it only results in zero " "it's simple. To put it this way, Gluttonous King Beelzebub It is a phenomenon similar to. Energy dissipation to minus, not energy release to plus is a problem. However, the action is the same. Since energy has direction, it would be fine if you manipulate it - "

    "It's a supposition, but My Skill Gluttonous King Beelzebub If it was runaway, I think it will be like it is now.

    So, I can understand how to deal with it.

    Whether it is expansion or disappearance, force has direction. There is a flow in energy, so stop the flow.

    In other words, it is time stop.

    If we stop the time, the negative energy that continues to expand also stops."​​​

    This mobius system can create infinite energy. This energy on rampage was going to collapse the universe bringing it to Zero. Sounds a turn null feat to me. This would lead Rimuru having Infinite supply of TURN NULL. Any thoughts?

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    • Uh... so is this an upgrade or...?

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    • Milly Rocking Bandit wrote: Uh... so is this an upgrade or...?

      Not yet.. Only if it's accepted as primordial energy we could propose an upgrade thread (2-A rimuru)

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    • Ok. Well, leaving this to you, man.

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    • Of course Rimuru can produce turn Null Infinitely even before he get Mobius system, but the thing that makes me doubt is it cant affect other Universe because if Space-time continuum has collapse this the energy (Mobius System) Will return to zero

      Rimuru Imaginary space (stomach) is have its own Space-time and cant be destroyed by Mobius system thus the energy Will grow Infinitely yeah it could be 2A energy but that Will be just a speculation.

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    • Rimuru can be 2A himself with Turn Null alone but we don't give him that Tier because he need Infinite time to produce 2A turn null

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    • GLHF22 wrote: Of course Rimuru can produce turn Null Infinitely even before he get Mobius system, but the thing that makes me doubt is it cant affect other Universe because if Space-time continuum has collapse this the energy (Mobius System) Will return to zero

      Rimuru Imaginary space is have its own Space-time and cant be destroyed by Mobius system thus the energy Will grow Infinitely yeah it could be 2A energy but that Will be just a speculation.

      Wasnt that before Ciel absorbed it and repaired it? It's energy that won't ever run out. That's what differes from current Turn Null. Turn null can finish (will take infinite time to be restored). This Mobius System will never run out. Like Mana breed reactor. 2-A rimuru would be more solid with this.

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    • Best ask CP.

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    • The issue with Rimuru "running out of energy", wasn't about the generated amount to be finite but rather that the generation speed potentially can't keep up with consumption of the energy. I see no mention of Mobius system being able to create an infinite amount of energy INSTANTLY, which would be required for a 2-A upgrade.

      Of course if there is something that suggests that Rimuru is able to create more "primordial energy generation nodes" within his stomach or something, the matter would change in the sense that Rimuru's AP with prep time would potentially enable him to create energy faster, but even that would be too vague and at best increase the AP that Rimuru got within 2-B, but it's more likely that even that won't happen.

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    • NeoSuperior wrote: The issue with Rimuru "running out of energy", wasn't about the generated amount to be finite but rather that the generation speed potentially can't keep up with consumption of the energy. I see no mention of Mobius system being able to create an infinite amount of energy INSTANTLY, which would be required for a 2-A upgrade.

      Of course if there is something that suggests that Rimuru is able to create more "primordial energy generation nodes" within his stomach or something, the matter would change in the sense that Rimuru's AP with prep time would potentially enable him to create energy faster, but even that would be too vague and at best increase the AP that Rimuru got within 2-B, but it's more likely that even that won't happen.

      Hmmm nice explanation. Still Turn Null isn't infinite, if it can't keep up with usage. That's what makes it finite. If we agree that Mobius is primordial energy then Rimuru has way more than Tens thousands (20k to 100k) universes. His imaginary space is infinite after all. Mobius production rate is way faster than turn null. But i agree it wont be enough for the 2A..i would suggest. Potentially 2-A.. Cause Chrono Saltation skill exists

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    • Rimuru Will not become 2A if he cant Nuke infinite number of universe at the same time, mobius system cannot work on the place where the time doesnt flow when turn Null can work without problem even in the Void this mobius system can only destroy universe one by one and with that you can only get low 2C or 2C at best

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    • GLHF22 wrote: Rimuru Will not become 2A if he cant Nuke infinite number of universe at the same time, mobius system cannot work on the place where the time doesnt flow when turn Null can work without problem even in the Void this mobius system can only destroy universe one by one and with that you can only get low 2C or 2C at best

      Thats a Beretta upgrade then. Belzebub and VGA can work in place where time doesnt flow though. Also Mobius can be integrated with Turn Null. Ciel perfectioned it. Think of it as Mana breed reactor, made with Energy. At least 2-B | far Higher with chrono Saltation and mobius is reasonable for me... Not a 2-A but still somewhere between 2B and 2A

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    • Some people do get possibly 2A Tier due to potentially becoming 2A in the future, but im not sure about Rimuru so you better ask CP

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    • I don't think Rimuru would be 2-A as primodial energy doen't mean it give 2-A feat but I think the Weakness about Turn Null being limited could removed with more context though.

      I found the thread where the weakness was added: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:2333702

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    • Something I’d like to ask. Did Yuuki eat the Voice of the World EoS? It did say he ate most of the continuum and celestial bodies.

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    • Milly Rocking Bandit wrote:
      Something I’d like to ask. Did Yuuki eat the Voice of the World EoS? It did say he ate most of the continuum and celestial bodies.

      I think it was stated he destroyed not ate most of the space-time continuum. Yuuki having Gluttonous King Beelezbub though can work suprisingly well as to explain how he destroyed the universe.

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    • But did he destroy it, though?

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    • @KTouma545, I do know that Rimuru has Mana breed reactor, for one. So, the dude is less likely to every relying on Turn Null anyways.

      I am always pretty the infinite energy in context only give Low 2-C as it could destroy the universe. I think it was stated that Rimuru could stop it and Veldora could even escaped to another world or universe, in context.

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    • Would that be a Beretta upgrade then?... Turn null limitation could be removed i agree too. So 2-A tiering is rejected, I propone "2-B likely Higher"...

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    • I can deal with that.

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    • KTouma545 wrote:
      Would that be a Beretta upgrade then?... Turn null limitation could be removed i agree too. So 2-A tiering is rejected, I propone "2-B likely Higher"...

      Why would Beretta be upgrade?

      Again, it only can destroy on universe as it pretty much impled that Veldora could escape in another world.

      We already have a discussion on the Topic where it rated and scaled it to Low 2-C and abilities comparable to it like Beelzebub and even Veldora who could used his Probality Manipulation  to oppose it energy.

      Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken WN Changes

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    • Elizhaa wrote:

      KTouma545 wrote:
      Would that be a Beretta upgrade then?... Turn null limitation could be removed i agree too. So 2-A tiering is rejected, I propone "2-B likely Higher"...

      Why would Beretta be upgrade?

      Again, it only can destroy on universe as it pretty much impled that Veldora could escape in another world.

      We already have a discussion on the Topic where it rated and scaled it to Low 2-C and abilities comparable to it like Beelzebub and even Veldora who could used his Probality Manipulation  to oppose it energy.

      Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken WN Changes

      Cause Rimuru installed it on Beretta too.. As a reward

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    • I am not familiar with the feat but in any case, I contacted @Celestial Pegasus to give his evaluations.

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    • Here is @Celestial Pegasus 's reply: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3261767#2

      Celestial Pegasus wrote:
      As i said previously don't care for WN revisions.

      I will answer however, the Mobius System provides infinite energy but it's not stated how that interacts with Turn Null, Turn Null isn't just any energy, but the energy which created the multiverse, the scope of the Mobius System seems limited to just a single universe.

      Also even if Rimuru can infinitely generate energy that just means he won't run out, don't think that increases his overall capabilities.

      I think THOK AST THOK articulated it well in a previous thread

      "Having an infinite MP bar doesn't mean much when your actual MP is still finite. That just mean you have the potential to have infinite MP. And the capability to produce something infinitely can also mean to produce something perpetually without ever stopping, not that you outright produce something that's infinite. It'd be like adding 1 to 0 perpetually, sure it'd be a bigass number but the number itself won't be infinite. You can have shits like 476649926474899264838499264847 and still add 1 into it"

      In short all it means is Rimuru loses his weakness of Turn Null being limited.

      He does not look to support the the AP's boost but he does support the idea of the Turn Null's weakness being removed which I am fine with.

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    • @KTouma545, can you post the evidence that Rimuru installed it on Beretta too.. As a reward?

      If there is no evidence, I got to respetfully disagree.

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    • Elizhaa wrote: @KTouma545, can you post the evidence that Rimuru installed it on Beretta too.. As a reward?

      If there is no evidence, I got to respetfully disagreed.

      Its in Unknown After story 18

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    • @KTouma545 , it is better to link evidence for a claims' CRT evaluation

      Discussion Rules:

      • When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the staff will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics if people cannot understand what you mean.
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    • I have limited time available. Can somebody summarise what is suggested here, and why?

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      I have limited time available. Can somebody summarise what is suggested here, and why?

      Basically, Rimuru would lose his weakness of Turn Null being limited which look to be agree with knowledgeable members/supporters in the series Celestial Pegasus, I, and others.

      There is also Rimuru gained an AP Upgrade to a form of 2-A or At least 2-B but looks rejected Celestial Pegasus, I and many supporters.

      Beretta's upgrade is being proposed from the Mobius but I disagreed to it because there is no linked evidence that show he has been.

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    • ^

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    • Okay. It seems like there is a consensus for adding the first suggestion, but not the others then.

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    • Yes, only the first.

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    • Okay. That should probably be fine to add then.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Okay. That should probably be fine to add then.

      So Rimuru turn null being infinite? If that so wouldn't make it "possibly high multi?" 👀 If you remove its limitation Rimuru should become "2-B, Possibly higher".. His imaginary space is infinite after all, turn null now we all agree is infinite, 2-B Possibly higher for lack of proofs should be fine imho

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    • GLHF22 could you please elaborate Light Novels Imaginary space being 1-B? Or link to an already existing discussion?

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      Okay. That should probably be fine to add then.

      I will add the changes, then.

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    • KTouma545 wrote:

      Antvasima wrote: Okay. That should probably be fine to add then.

      So Rimuru turn null being infinite?

      If that so wouldn't make it "possibly high multi?" 👀 If you remove its limitation Rimuru should become "2-B, Possibly higher".. His imaginary space is infinite after all, turn null now we all agree is infinite, 2-B Possibly higher for lack of proofs should be fine imho

      Having infinite energy does not mean it would boost/affect Attack Potency. So, I would have to disagree to this AP Upgrade too no matter how much I like the series.

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    • I agree.

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    • @Elizhaa

      Thank you for the help.

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    • @Antvasima, glad to help!

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    • I finished the changes.

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    • TArclight
      TArclight removed this reply because:
      .
      19:09, July 14, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Imma make a new proper tier revision thread... Gimme some minutes

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    • Elizhaa wrote: I finished the changes.

      Which changes did you make?

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    • TArclight wrote:

      Elizhaa wrote: I finished the changes.

      Which changes did you make?

      Rimuru's Turn null weakness removal.

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    • Elizhaa wrote:
      TArclight wrote:

      Elizhaa wrote: I finished the changes.

      Which changes did you make?
      Rimuru's Turn null weakness removal.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3266740#2

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    • So should we close this thread?

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      So should we close this thread?

      I think yes. The topics' discussion look to be completly done here.

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    • Antvasima wrote: So should we close this thread?

      Lmfao now you censoring 😂 you close the threads that put you in a difficult position. Infinite Turn Null = potentially infinite buster. Ill open as kany thread as needed to make the changes. No wonder vsbattles community is hated by everyone. You ask scans and explanation they close threads cause they have none 😂 Rimuru needs a AP buff. Or if not I'll make a new thread about rimuru 2-C downgrade. Infinite Turn Null = potentially infinite buster

      2-B likely higher. Close the thread and run away... Now i understand why Vsbattles is looked down by everyone lmao bunch of dudes who apply changes as they see fit and reject anything that would solo their favorite character lmfaooo

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    • Dont even waste your time, they used my explanation to explain their featless 2-B. They keep denying infinite turn null will lead to a "2-B possibly higher" tier (which they interpreted as 2-A when i clearly said "possibly higher". But as soon as 1 of their friends agree they make the changes without even waiting for more opinions 😂 these bunch of clowns is the reason VSBattles community is laughed at by literally anyone. You ask them to prove 2-B, not a single scan dropped, not a single explanation dropped lol they just close threads and run away. Lmaooooooo

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    • TArclight wrote: Dont even waste your time, they used my explanation to explain their featless 2-B. They keep denying infinite turn null will lead to a "2-B possibly higher" tier (which they interpreted as 2-A when i clearly said "possibly higher". But as soon as 1 of their friends agree they make the changes without even waiting for more opinions 😂 these bunch of clowns is the reason VSBattles community is laughed at by literally anyone. You ask them to prove 2-B, not a single scan dropped, not a single explanation dropped lol they just close threads and run away. Lmaooooooo

      Lol true they also said "we dont use multipliers for the tier"... You go to see Kaguya tier explanation: "possibly higher (her stats increases exponentially)" 😂 im dead

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    • Both the Administration and we must be honest with the facts and evidence that they actually exist. I do not have the sources to confirm any of your victorious marches and jokes of brilliant strategists. I just think that even if this modification is possible, but as they say"I found a castle standing on a pillar of salt and pillar of sand" (Sorry, if lyrics are rong from Viva la Vida)Therefore, it is necessary to wait for the release of light novel chapter in order to precisely point a finger not in the eye, but in the exact text, if the moderator or administrator people are blind and with their level of knowledge of development of such characters are not able to apply new knowledge to stick changes. Do not consider it an insult, but at such moments usually make a temporary update, and then, if there is no result and approval from all sides, the information is either erased or remains as an additional possible window requiring confirmation. So i hope everything will end quietly.

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    • @KTouma545 "rimuru 2-C downgrade" sounds fun , u should make the thread lets see how ppl react to it

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    • I will close this thread then, and the new members here who keep making hostile mocking comments and disobeying staff instructions need to quickly adapt to our community, or we will be forced to ban them.

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