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  • Monarch Laciel
    Monarch Laciel closed this thread because:
    Enough
    09:52, July 11, 2019

    Battle for the title of strongest servant.

    Both are at their peak.

    Both are on their vimana.

    Enkiduuu!! vs Karnaaa!!

    Win by SBA
    Gilgamesh Full Power Extella
    BerserkerArjunaAlterStage3
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    • What is human to a God?

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    • Gilgamesh

      > Have almost all human power via GoB

      Arjuna

      > Have atleast 330 million Gods authority

      GG

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    • Doesn’t Arjuna just resist everything Gil throws at him here?

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    • GLHF2 wrote:

      > Have atleast 330 million Gods authority

      Enkidu be like: I'm so tying this guy up

      Not that I would want to vote for my lord, given Arjunalter's Void Manip

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    • >Tiamat broke the chain

      >Arjuna is possibly stronger than Tiamat or atleast he is on Tiamat level

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    • Where is 330 million coming from someone tell me please

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    • Hindu Gods Composite

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    • GLHF22 wrote:
      >Tiamat broke the chain

      >Arjuna is possibly stronger than Tiamat or atleast he is on Tiamat level

      I think breaking the chain may come from Tiamat's physical strength (which is crazy high, from Monstrous Strength EX), but still, my lord's sure getting ancient.

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    • Yeah, but there are 33 million, not 330 million. Did Nasu change it?

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    • Oh my in His profile it said 330 milions

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    • Probably a typo, doesn't matter. 

      1. Arjuna's mindset, his combat tactics, what does he start with etc.

      2. Does Arjuna get pass Gilgamesh's Ten Crowns? 

      3. Can Arjuna survive Ea?

      4. Does Arjuna have an ability that can bypass Gilgamesh's resistances? 

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    • I think Arjuna can take an Ea, considering his place on the scaling chain (he has resistance to Space and Time Manip, so Enuma Elish can't ignore his durability)

      And I see Conceptual Erase, which I don't remember Gil having resistance

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    • Is this Lostbelt king Arjuna or servant Arjuna? Since i believe LB king Arjuna Will stomp Gil

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    • It's more than just space-time manipulation. Something something, returning to nothingness, void stuff. It has more to do with devouring and erasing, so he shouldn't be able to tank it. 

      He has a really strong resistance against being erased. 

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    • Well it said above Both are at their peak. So LB King Arjuna.

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    • It says both at peak so it should be Lostbelt King Arjuna, but Gil at his peak does have passive Subjective Reality and Enkidu

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    • IDK really since nasu wank the shit of Gilgamesh in extra plus we don't know Arjuna true power.

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    • Chocolate bunny FRA

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    • Yea there ain't even any reasons. This could go from "Arjuna stomps him" to "Arjuna can't do shit". 

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    • But there are. Altjuna be lookin more fabulous than Gil in the OP.

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    • i bet he is a stand user

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    • Gil auo cast off
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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Gil auo cast off

      Gorgeous, Beutuful, Graceful, Glorious, and all positive adjectives combined.

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    • Is parameter for servant Arjuna and LB Arjuna is the same? IIRC he is no longer composite of Hindu Gods after become servant/gain His sanity, it said he just inherited Shiva power when he become servant, I believe LB Arjuna should be atleast on Tiamat level

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    • Yeah, but like CCC Gilgamesh kills Tiamat with his golden erection alone. 

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    • Tiamat has Strength parameter of A+ and Monstrous Strength EX, and it took her a while to break free off Enkidu, while Arjunalter may debatably have comparable strength (if we assume Lostbelt King Arjuna has different parameters from his Servant counterpart), he doesn't have Monstrous Strength to back him up.

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    • Diinou HotHead
      Diinou HotHead removed this reply because:
      Accidentially quoted
      15:02, July 3, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Doesn't having a huge following irl empower the gods?

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    • SNI + Enkidu + Ea seems to be a good combo for Gilgamesh. Even if he breaks from Enkidu it would create a huge opening where Gilgamesh could basically come up to him and smack him with Ea if he chose to. 

      This is without taking into consideration that Arjuna might not even be able to get pass Subjective Reality. 

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    • Doesn't Enkidu get strong in proportion to DIvinty, so 33/330 millions gods EX DIvinity Arjuna is probably more DIvine than Tiamat so the chain should be stronger. Also Can Arjuna get past Ten Crowns.

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    • Staying neutral til people give more input.

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    • Would Mahapralaya help getting past Ten Crowns?

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    • I don't really think so. 

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    • The closest thing I can see getting through would be his Void thingy, which I don't know how hard Gil resist it (I only see his Extra CCC feat which I don't know how hard he resist cuz I suck at Jap)

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    • Well the Moon Cell can't erase him, the nothingness of the Far Side couldn't erase him even though he spent an eternity in it and he resisted Moon Cell resetting the timeline and erasing the Far Side while he was bound to it. 

      I'd say decent resistance. 

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    • IIRC in Extra (at least the Manga adaptation anyway), it was stated that the Mooncell erases even the soul and existence.

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    • For now, I'll vote Gilgamesh. All the reasons are mentioned. 

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    • Gil wins via SBA fools

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    • Somebody might as well remove the 2C rating from Arjunalter's profile already, he's not even destroying the universes at the same time.

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    • Diinou HotHead wrote: It says both at peak so it should be Lostbelt King Arjuna, but Gil at his peak does have passive Subjective Reality and Enkidu

      What does it do?

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    • Passively negating attacks

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    • And abilities. 

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    • oh you're talking about Ten Crowns

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    • Well, Arjuna has sun god authority on his side so he trumps Gil's authority. That should let him bypass 10 crowns. That being said, I think Enkidu should be effective since Arjuna is dead ass one of the most divine beings in the whole nasuverse

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    • Actually yeah. I'm gonna vote for Berserker due to far superior authority and being able to tank all incoming effects due to cutting them by 90%. Enkidu is Gil's only proper way to take him down, and Arjuna should be able to deal with it more times than not with his NP and Power Null that comes with Saraswati's authority. If it comes down to a class between their existence erasure (which is probably will) Arjuna will come out on top. 

      For these reasons, I vote Berserker

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    • Voting for God Arjuna for Iapitus's reasons.

      Time to show Gilgamesh what a true god is!

      But man, next we need Full Power Gil VS Super Karna...

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    • Super Karna would likely be a new key instead of a whole new profile. I'll talk with Ever about it

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    • Berserker: 2

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    • Also question: Since Arjuna has the Authorities of nearly all the Hindu pantheon, doesn't that mean he has Melt's flow concept thingy too? And... several other very hax stuff?

      Cuz wow... God Arjuna VS Goetia, anyone?

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    • Yeah, he does. It's already on his profile actually, look under his list of known authority. 

      I was thinking we could try BB first

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    • My god

      Super Karna must be protected by that PLOT armor just to survive

      Or he has resistance against that level of hax.

      Anyyyyyways I'm getting off-topic, so anyone else has any counters to Iapitus' reasons for God Arjuna winning?

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    • Swag voting Gil iirc so he might be countering it soon

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    • Berserker fra

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    • Is Mahapralaya above Ea?

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:
      Is Mahapralaya above Ea?

      Maybe? Ea is "likely higher" than Low 2-C, while Mahapralaya is possibly 2-C; heck God Arjuna himself is possibly 2-C.

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    • Imma go with God Arjuna even though i like Gilgmaesh more. 

      I don't think gil can survive a universal reset 1,000+ times over. Otherwise that would be Type 4 acasuality wouldn't it?

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    • Arjuna: 4

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    • I will go to Gilgamesh for swag reason above and pls for love of god people need to wait the rebuttal before voting

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    • Arjuna: 4

      Gil: 2

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      I will go to Gilgamesh for swag reason above and pls for love of god people need to wait the rebuttal before voting

      I'm honestly not sure how in hell Gilgamesh will get around the authority difference other than maybe Enkidu, just because Enkidu works better the more divine an enemy is and Arjuna has the divinity of an entire pantheon, so I think Enkidu will do incredibly well if he can land it. Other than that, I don't think there is really a rebuttal to make, since we already know that Gil did shit against BB when she outclassed him in authority, and Arjuna has the authority of an entire pantheon on his side, and on a far higher level than what Gil has delt with

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    • Honestly, that's not just Arjuna's only advantage (The Authority thing). Shouldn't he scale much higher in the Fate scaling chain? Like, Kiara = Kama, and Gil =/< Kiara right? And remember, God Arjuna is the fusion of an entire pantheon, dwarfing even Kiara and Kama; who are Gil-level.

      Plus, there's the fact that Arjuna could just kill Gil with superior AP with his NP.

      Sure, the chains are a problem but I see Arjuna having more advantages here tbh.

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    • the reason we have Ooku event because Kama escape from India, since he afraid he will be a part of Arjuna authority

      and yes i think he is in the top of scaling chain

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    • Yeah I know but still

      Kama <<< the rest of the indian pantheon

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    • not its Mara

      Arjuna is comparable to Mara

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    • Mara is that powerful?? So much so that he can match the combined power of all the Hindu Pantheon minus the Trimurti??

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    • I don't think Arjuna is comparable to Mara, since iirc she bailed hard. Beast Kama is also more hax than raw Goddess Kama

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    • What proof do you have that he has higher authority? What makes Hindu gods more powerful than the others?

      Hindu pantheon is generally focused around their trinity, which is Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma and their lady counterparts Parvati, Lakshmi and Saraswati. Surya (the sun god) is at the very best close to the trinity, but not above them. He can also be seen as beneath them because he is a distant descendant of Brahma through his father's line. At least that's how it is in the mythology and if Nasu didn't specifically change stuff, this is probably right. 

      We've already seen BB give Hindu gods to Alter egos, such as Saraswati and Parvati and BB herself would have Parvati inside her due to possessing all "Mother Goddess" beings and Parvati is Hindu mother goddess. This automatically makes Parvati (member of the supreme hindu trinity) way weaker than the original Mother Goddess and subject to her authority. 

      Reducing 90% of damage is not really useful here because Ea would instakill. Gil already dealt with some Hindu authority. Enkidu would be a sufficent distraction if nothing else. Gil can survive existence erasure, as stated above. The Moon Cell already used resetion of the timeline and erasure of the Far Side to which Gilgamesh was bound and it didn't do anything. I think 2-C stuff is undeserved because he doesn't destroy/create many universes at the time. Moon Cell itself is able to instantly reset the timeline any time it wants. Therefore the whole Mahapralaya > Ea because it says possibly 2-C is not a good argument. 

      Correction, BB did shit against Gilgamesh when he had all of his stuff ready. It's important to note that quality beats quantity. 30 million gods when you only know stuff about 10 is speculation. If their supreme trinity gotta answer to mama Catal Hoyuk, then I'm pretty sure the rest do too. Since 2-C is not really valid, the AP advantage goes away as well. 

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    • So in power at least its:

      Kiara = Beast Kama/Mara < God Kama < God Arjuna?

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    • IIRC BB only posses their fragment not their true power unless you want to say Gilgamesh can kill his own father, during life Gilgamesh almost never kill any Gods even though he is hate them, its because he is not have power to kill them all,

      in Lostbelt Timelie Arjuna did not die thus All Hindu gods give everything to him even their very existence, also Arjuna have the Big Three authority 
      in Lore Hindu Gods need shiva's power to supressed Mara, thus Mara = Shiva + Hindu phanteons
      meanwhile Arjuna  is = Big three (not full power) + Hindu phanteons so i think he is somewaht comparable to Mara

      also the reason why we assume Mahapralaya is stronger than EA because EA got his low 2C tier by scaling chain and he never do thing like destroying universe while Mahapralaya have the actual feats of doing so

      Mooncell never have Gods True power , yes BB have Mother Goddess components but if you want to say their true power then no, because Tiamat, parvati etc still exist in the farside which mean BB only have part of their power

      i dont know about Arjuna since LB4 is not fully translated yet, but since the Gods give their very existence to Arjuna im sure he have their True power, if not then Kama/Mara, Parvati Ganehsa will not leave India, in Ooku she said She cant come to India Lostbelt due to some reason i think its because Arjuna will also absorbs her

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    • I don't remember mentions of BB absorbing only fragments of power. Descriptions never mention fragments, so it's assumed to be entire power because it fits the story. I don't want to say anything I don't write and whether Gilgamesh in his life killed Gods or not that's not really important here. Nor did he have Ten Crowns during his life. 

      That is not really relevant to my comment. 

      With that logic Goetia is weaker than Mara because Goetia doesn't have actual feats of tier 2, but he got there via scaling and Mara does. It does not work like that. 

      Far Side is a part of the Moon Cell. It's also a part which first merged with BB, so  if Tiamat and Parvati resided within the Far Side, great, they became a part of BB. Again, her main power comes from the Seated Goddess of Catal Hoyuk, the original mother goddess from which other mother goddesses branched. 

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    • Gilgamesh FRA

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    • My mistake its reverse side of the world not far side

      you know not a single thing is make sense of tier 2 nasu, in fact they got tier 2 by scaling chain from Kama, even Extra servant get tier 2 with vague statements and use Kama to backup its argument


      This authority over the power of bringing death and giving life, symbolized by holes opening in the earth and the sky, caves and the moon, the whirlpools and typhoons of the sea, the craters of volcanoes, and such, first births evils that bring forth all manners of death. Once the evils are finished spreading death, they leave the promise of good harvest and fertility. The goddesses that followed inherited this authority, and many were imaged with mural crowns because many were also the guardian deities of cities. Most used the authority to give birth to countless monsters and giants and posed a threat to the gods and man, or give birth to heroes and became protectors of man. Tiamat and Gaia are examples of those who became threats, and Hera is an example of a mother of heroes. BB used Earth Mother data and Kingprotea came to existence as a High-Servant.

      im not sure BB have their true power

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    • How they got tier 2 is also not really relevant for this thread.

      "The authority of the goddesses whom BB compiled and absorbed from the abyss of the Moon Cell. What it is is the embodiment of the power of creation possessed by the mother goddesses, originating from a forgotten goddess approximately 8000 years ago."

      With "whom" referring to "goddesses", which directly translates that BB absorbed goddesses (their power) as whole and not fragments. 

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    • (Sits down, popcorn in hand, ready to take the side of who's winning the debate)

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Gil auo cast off
      Myeyes34
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    • "whom"? Thats pretty vague and weak argument can you give me better evidence for it? BB only have their data not their true power also if you want to say BB have mother goddess true power then why the hell Mooncell still cant do shit to KK? Surya is not even stronger than earth mother goddess plus its not Surya's true power

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    • "Whom" is me adding a bit of explanation to the quote. It is you claiming that she only has fragments when there is actually no mention of fragments. Of course she has her full authority. That's the whole point. You are using word "data" to claim she only has fragments of the power. "Data" is used because Moon Cell is a computer, it is simple. 

      I don't know why the Moon Cell can't kill Karna when even Vlad can damage him and it's not really the point here. 

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    • It was stated that the power of the sun is much superior to the moon. One of the reason why Amaterasu is above the moon cell.

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    • Exact quote is needed and the Moon is irrelevant here because Ten Crowns is not Moon Cell's authority. 

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    • You need to ask Ram about that.

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    • Damn, that just complicates the scaling chain up even more.

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    • The scaling chain is a mess with too many contradictions. There is no point in even trying to make sense of it.

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    • The thing that I remember is that the Bodhisattva is above the divine spirits. Because they rule the solar system. Not like the other gods who only rule the earth.

      I think it was like this Bodhisattva>Sun gods>Earth gods.

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    • Yet a Bodhisattva got held back by some people earth gods's authorities. I know they can only hold her back but still...

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    • Well no one in FGO is Bodhisattva. The only Bodhisattva are Saver and CCC Kiara.

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    • And yet Kiara is not the strongest. So you can see how the scaling is broken.

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    • Kiara on CCC was hold back by the Sakura five that she absorb, that's the reason why the servant of the MC survive the NP of Kiara even though it deals 99999 damage but it will always leave 1 HP.

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    • Yeah, Bodhisattva is held down by people with puny earthly god powers. 

      Anyways, does anyone have something to add for this match? 

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    • The source of power of Kiara in CCC are the Sakura five and the NP of Anderson. That's the reason she became a Bodhisattva.

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    • The thing is, Arjuna seems to have higher and more Authorities, but the point that Hindu Gods's Authorities are weaker than most Gods is brought up, then it brings us to look at the messed up scaling chain we have here.

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    • Yes, I dislike the idea of him being so powerful because he has all those authorities. We basically know things about a few strongest hindu gods and that's it. 

      Note that the Ten Crowns is something he has to get through in order to have a chance against Gilgamesh. Enkidu + Ea is still his biggest win condition. 

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    • Altjuna fra tbh

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    • Woopsies

      Arjunalter: 5

      Gil: 2

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    • Also, it appears Arjunalter has superior Erasure (Conceptual level), against Gil's at least soul (might also be conceptual, but I have to check the original japanese ver.) resist.

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    • Based on what? Is it even relevant if he instantly gets Enkidu + Ea? 

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    • We all know Gils about to get a huge buff cause Nasu cant have someone stronger than Gil ovo.

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    • That's true. Not like Arjunalter can null it, given Gil's resistance against Powernulling.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      We all know Gils about to get a huge buff cause Nasu cant have someone stronger than Gil ovo.

      It better come, and a big one, my lord needs updating so much.

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    • gil still has SBA doe it ain't restricted so OVO

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    • Close this stomp thread

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Close this stomp thread

      Why would it be a stomp?

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    • Because Red reminded us that SBA is unrestricted which automatically gives Gilgamesh a win. 

      https://joke-battles.fandom.com/wiki/SBA_Manipulation

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    • Oh lol

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    • How it goes:

      Gil VS Arjuna!

      SBA, in-character.

      Gilgamesh: I AM the rules. *manipulates the SBA*

      SBA new definition: Gilgamesh always wins, fight starts with opponent already dead, and cancels out every single possible hax; passive or not

      WINNER: GILGAMESH

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    • Im still believe Arjunalter have greater authority tbh, BB cant modify KK with her CCC even she said thats difficult even for Gods so here you have to bring your evidence or feats of BB have superior authority let alone earth mother goddess true power, Nothing said Hindu Gods is lesser than other Gods in fact even Demi Gods from India is very powerful.

      If BB have parvati true power then its impossible for parvati to posses sakura body, even Ganesha is just like " hey BB can you bring me a vessel?" And then BB get reward from him, its seems BB just have a little of their power.

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    • I want people to wait before voting since there gonna be a long a** debate

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      I want people to wait before voting since there gonna be a long a** debate

      ^This. Also, I can sense thet the messed up scaling chain will be brought up a lot in this.

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    • Ashwatthama was able to tank Vasavi shakti due to Arjuna give him immorality, so even NP as strong as Vasavi shakti isnt enough to put down Arjuna, Arjunalter was able to erase Karna with KK when Mooncell and BB cant do shit to it, so Im sure Arjuna have superior authority

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    • GLHF22 wrote:
      Arjunalter was able to erase Karna with KK when Mooncell and BB cant do shit to it

      WHOA

      okay that's very OP, chill Nasu and Pako

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    • Also if anyone want to say Sun > moon argument by that logic then Arjuna is stronger than everything in CCC since Sun God is just a part of his power

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    • Sun > Moon is canon. Hell, even the specific sun God in question trumped the moon cells authority in canon with the interactions of BB and Karna's armor. There are supreme gods that are even further above that in Arjuna's arsenal. If you want to claim some minor gods are weaker than their respective counter parts of other pantheons then fine, that is somewhat acceptable, but the major gods like those of the moon, sun, death (which mind you, is above any of the other major authorities short of the supreme pantheon gods), life, etc. Should still be on par

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    • I just want to say BB authority is not that powerful, as there are no proof of her have Gods True power even feats implying she is not stronger than a single sun God who is weaker than original Earth mother goddess

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    • There is no reason to assume her's would be any weaker, since she is recreate them from the same records that have shown to be able to create perfect replicas like the counter force and throne of heroes. You are also taking the conclusion that earth mother goddess authority used by BB was weaker than sun god authority, to say that she wasn't using full power earth mother god authority. To say this, you have to assume from the beginning that sun God authority would be weaker than earth mother god authority, so that doesn't follow. 

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    • Let's make this more easy

      Arjuna > Gilgamesh

      Arjuna authority > BB authority

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    • I dunno but this is somehow feels a wank

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      I dunno but this is somehow feels a wank

      How exactly? This is also an in universe fate match, so basically any "wank" that was going on would scale to both parties

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    • I mean not only what GL describe are sound baseless, it also NLF since it still unknown how strong Hindu pantheon is

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      I mean not only what GL describe are sound baseless, it also NLF since it still unknown how strong Hindu pantheon is

      baselss? im not say Hindu phanteon stronger than other, it is Swag who say Hindo gods are lesser than other

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    • i tell you their feats, so what part is baseless?

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    • Show me feats of Karna or KK tanking Cursed Cutting Crater. There is no basis for your statement of BB only having a portion of the god's power. No basis, at all. 

      Again, post a feat of Karna tanking Cursed Cutting Crater, then we can talk about Arjuna having superior ability to her. 

      Moon is literally irrelevant here and is just used to derail the important parts of the argument. My argument is based on something. Based on the fact that a member of the Hindu supreme trinity is beneath the original mother goddess because every mother goddess branched from her. 

      Let's make this really easy: 

      Even if Arjuna can get past Ten Crowns, Gilgamesh will still kill him with Enkidu + Ea. 

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    • So yeah, my vote still stand

      Also people who say "Altjuna can break free from the chain because he's comparable to the Beasts like Goetia and Tiamat", nope, Tiamat has Monstrous Strength EX so she can easily break free, Altjuna doesn't have it so he can't, beside Tiamat get chained by Enkidu is not truly Enkidu but rather Kingu so he not that strong as OG Enkidu.

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    • Being chained even for a moment means death. Authority is not even needed here. 

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    • here is my basis

      "Even with the Authority of the Earth Mother Goddess, BB found it impossible to modify or otherwise destroy Kavacha and Kundala. Described as being difficult for even the Gods, who have dominion over concepts of time, civilization, and other aspects of reality, to destroy. The authority of the Moon Cell was completely unable to destroy the armor."

      Can even enkidu reach Arjuna? so arjuna just stand here when Gil trying to tying him ? the chain is indestrucable?

      Arjuna have a big AOE attack, even the chain will never be able to reach him as he can just shoot it with Pashupata or gandiva 

      Can even EA kill him? with Vishnu authority even Vasavi Shakti cant kill him, with Shiva authority even KK cant protect karna from being erased, so what Gilgamesh have here?

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      I mean not only what GL describe are sound baseless, it also NLF since it still unknown how strong Hindu pantheon is

      The weaker gods? Sure, we do not know how strong they are. But the supreme beings and the gods of higher stations in their hierarchy? We scale them to comparable beings. 

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    • if BB does have Original Mother Goddess Authority then why she cant do shit to KK? so Surya is stronger than Earth Mother Goddess? you are the one who say Earth mother Goddess is stronger than Hindu Phanteon minus trimurti, im talking about feats here not just a vague statement

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    • That quote doesn't mention Cursed Cutting Crater. The Moon Cell found impossible to destroy a weakened Gilgamesh who had no major powers like Ten Crowns, Power of the Beginning etc. At the end of the game he resists everything, he tanks everything yet BB's Cursed Cutting Crater will one-shot him with no exception. Therefore, unless Karna has specifically showed he can tank C.C.C., we should assume he can't. 

      I don't think anyone stood while Gilgamesh was trying to chain them up. Most of the time chains suddenly appeared around the person. It doesn't have to be indestructable. It's enough to be a distraction. Arjuna doesn't have time to spare in this fight. 

      If he shots the chain he is distracted which means he is dead. 

      That would have to imply that Vasavi Shakti is stronger than Ea, yet it possesses no attributes of Ea. 

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      • C.C.C.: Cursed Cutting Crater: Taking advantage of her authority as the Earth Mother Goddess that is the root of all creation, BB purges the world by rewriting its events and making maximum use of the EX skill “Potnia Theron”. It is an Anti-World Noble Phantasm that outputs information like an ultra-precise 3-D Printer, overriding the previous world with the world that BB desires. The space eroded by this attack becomes imaginary space and a curse that consumes and bores a hole in reality to achieve her ends. In addition to scattering all objects inside on an atomic level and reconstructing them, it is capable of writing over and rewriting information of fields such as luck and coincidence. She can also distort the time axis by interfering with gravity fields and rewriting the law of cause and effect. When used in combat, BB’s has her familiars, the shapeshifters, engulf the target, allowing BB to wipe them out of existence unopposed.

      C.C.C is Earth Mother Goddess Authority

      Arjuna have EX Clairvoyance that can see throught Time

      Suddenly appeared is not an issue since his Bow and Astras is always around him, he can just let the Astras explode or shoot a beam from it

      Heracles can evade it and Arjuna Agility is the same with Heracles

      Vasavi Shakti is Anti-Divine which can Kill sefar, and of course when fought divinity VS have the same advantage with EA

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Show me feats of Karna or KK tanking Cursed Cutting Crater. There is no basis for your statement of BB only having a portion of the god's power. No basis, at all. 

      Again, post a feat of Karna tanking Cursed Cutting Crater, then we can talk about Arjuna having superior ability to her. 

      Moon is literally irrelevant here and is just used to derail the important parts of the argument. My argument is based on something. Based on the fact that a member of the Hindu supreme trinity is beneath the original mother goddess because every mother goddess branched from her. 

      Let's make this really easy: 

      Even if Arjuna can get past Ten Crowns, Gilgamesh will still kill him with Enkidu + Ea. 

      I'm not sure why you think his interactions with CCC or lack there of mean anything at all. We already know she cannot do anything to him, and one of the major strengths of BB relative to other fate characters is her willingness to spam hax. If her lack of authority is the reason given for why any of her other abilities cannot effect him, then why would CCC work any better? Does this somehow enhance her authority? Does it somehow work on a higher scale of authority than her other abilities? If not, then a single piece absence from her attempt to dump her full arsenal into him does not matter. 

      The moon and earth mother authority are both stated to be less than a sun god authority or the authority of supreme beings of pantheons, both of which Arjuna has access to. Hell, he even has access to death god authority which is supreme among all authority falling short of those on the level of supreme beings. 



      I agree with Enkidu working on him, but he has to land it first. It just takes a swing of the wrist for Arjuna to win the match

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    • This is God King Arjuna vs CCC Gil right? Would Berserker Arjuna Alter vs Archer Gilgamesh be different?

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    • I'm not sure. We could probably try that thread after this if it doesn't count as redundant. But Arjuna still just needs to flick his wrist and strike with at least solar system level force, if not far higher

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    • Denied, for the both of you. 

      We have already established what C.C.C. is and isn't. If Karna didn't tank it, it won't be assumed that he can because that's how debating works. Facts over assumptions and speculations. We already know that she can't do anything to Gilgamesh except one-shot him with that ability. We know a lot of things, but not whether Karna can survive C.C.C. It works on people who resist that authority. Does it work on some different level? Perhaps, it kills people it shouldn't be able to kill and there is that. We are now spinning in circles. 

      Where is that quote? A lot of stuff on Fate versus threads get misinterpreted. I'd like the exact quote on all of that. 

      It also takes no arm movement from Gilgamesh to win the match. 

      BB sees more than Arjuna and that didn't help her. 

      Heracles did not evade it in the visual novel. 

      Does the bow fire in all directions around him at the same time?

      Vasavi Shakti having advantage against divinity is irrelevant to the argument. 

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    • First Tell me what is CCC and how its work My Omniscient God


      is CCC work Via Earth Mother Goddess authority or Completely seperate ability?

      The astras is the Ball around Him and again big AOE

      Vasavi Shakti is comparable to EA especially when fough Divine and Ashwatthama Tank it with Vishnu authority he got from Arjuna

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    • Description of the ability is written on BB's page.

      It utilizes that authority, yet kills those who resist that authority.

      Is it autonomous? How close is it to him? Does it passively create a field around him that protects him? Gilgamesh could easily open a portal behind Arjuna's head, below his feet etc. 

      Again, you've strayed away from the relevant part. 

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Denied, for the both of you. 

      We have already established what C.C.C. is and isn't. If Karna didn't tank it, it won't be assumed that he can because that's how debating works. Facts over assumptions and speculations. We already know that she can't do anything to Gilgamesh except one-shot him with that ability. We know a lot of things, but not whether Karna can survive C.C.C. It works on people who resist that authority. Does it work on some different level? Perhaps, it kills people it shouldn't be able to kill and there is that. We are now spinning in circles. 

      Defying established cosmology just because it is inconvenient for you isn't how VS debating works tho. You don't "resist" authority lol, that's not how it works. 

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Denied, for the both of you. 

      We have already established what C.C.C. is and isn't. If Karna didn't tank it, it won't be assumed that he can because that's how debating works. Facts over assumptions and speculations. We already know that she can't do anything to Gilgamesh except one-shot him with that ability. We know a lot of things, but not whether Karna can survive C.C.C. It works on people who resist that authority. Does it work on some different level? Perhaps, it kills people it shouldn't be able to kill and there is that. We are now spinning in circles. 

      Defying established cosmology just because it is inconvenient for you isn't how VS debating works tho. You don't "resist" authority lol, that's not how it works. 

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote: Gilgamesh could easily open a portal behind Arjuna's head, below his feet etc. 

      Gil uses his portals like this?

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    • Also Gil have 3 vote actually, Everything just voting him long ago so its count Swag, me, and Everything

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:

      ThisIsMySwagPack wrote: Gilgamesh could easily open a portal behind Arjuna's head, below his feet etc. 

      Gil uses his portals like this?

      Yup, he can, and he will especially if he SNIped that his target won't be easy to hit.

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    • How far away can he open a portal?

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    • That only happen in ubw nowhere else.

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    • Listen, either post Karna tanking C.C.C. or we are done with that part.

      Extra CCC has him opening portals beneath someone.

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Listen, either post Karna tanking C.C.C. or we are done with that part.

      Extra CCC has him opening portals beneath someone.

      Her entire arsenal was stated to do nothing to him, and whether or not a single missing piece was or was not used doesn't change that. There is more to VS debating than raw onscreen feats, you know that right? 

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    • Okay Discussing CCC is not relevant either, but again Arjuna have superior Authority than BB so i dont see how Gilgamesh can win here

      See Picture in his profile and you know how close the Astras and Bow is

      again Arjuna can also Summon his Astras in front of Gil and Kill him (its unavoidable)

      i dont know if Arjuna have a shield since LB4 is not fully translated yet

      And EA cant kill Arjuna due to his Vishnu Authorty,

      even if EA can kill him dont see how he land that to Arjuna since he can just evade it, also Mahapralaya is Arguably stronger than EA since he shows actual feats while EA never have feats Destroy a universe

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    • DragonEmperor23 wrote:
      How far away can he open a portal?

      A few meters away from him, I think? I mean, I don't remember him opening GoB very far from him before.

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    • im vote for Arjuna

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    • It wasn't stated. You are taking that from what's written on the page. Yes, and it doesn't involve assumptions and speculations with no valid basis.

      Let's not debate this by ignoring the things said here because the things you wrote (GLHF) ignore what I said.

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    • Ignoring what?

      Arjuna have Vayu authority which makes His attack unavoidable, he give William Tell this authority which makes His attack unavoidable

      He can summon His Astra anywhere just like pashupata or Gil GoB, or just look at His attack animation

      Vasavi cant kill ashwatthama due to Arjuna give him immorality via Vishnu authority

      Mahapralaya have actual feats of destroy and recreated universe while EA never shown those feats

      I give evidence of Arjuna have superior authority so what makes you think all of my argument is baselesss in fact im stated their feats, are you ignoring my reply or what?

      I can also say your argument is have no basis at all since i can also pretend didnt see anything

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    • At this point i thinking this match is pointless since no matter how strong the newcomer servants is, Gil always be in number one for being strongest servant in the series and Nasu really love to push Gil even further in wank powerlevel wise, heck he even can withstanding Qlipoth Rizome if Nasu want

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    • Don't both of them just dodge everything the other does with Precog?

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    • How effective is it against the Clairvoyance that can see other timelines & Acausality 2s?

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    • Vayu authority makes Arjuna attack unavoidable

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    • Doesn't kill Gilgamesh. 

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    • Diinou HotHead wrote: How effective is it against the Clairvoyance that can see other timelines & Acausality 2s?

      Gilgamesh doesn't have Acausality type 2 tho.

      Clairvoyance let's him survive, not win.

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    • He didn't say Gilgamesh has Acausality type 2. 

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    • Then once again, both Precog eachother but can't hurt or affect each other

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    • So it’s basically both sides being like “Can’t Touch This”.

      Ok, fair enough.

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    • Does that make an incon?

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    • Not really. Precog doesn't stop Arjuna's attacks from always hitting.

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    • Wasn't "always hitting" like, glorified homing attack? Not something Gil can get a shield out or just neg it with Ten Crowns.

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    • Wasn't Base Will's "always hits" thing basically GB causality manip and on the off chance it misses, he will just tag you with the second one? Vayu Authority somehow makes this even more unavidable. Will Ten Crowns neg the Authority of an entire pantheon, multiple members of said pantheon being above BB's?

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:
      Wasn't Base Will's "always hits" thing basically GB causality manip and on the off chance it misses, he will just tag you with the second one? Vayu Authority somehow makes this even more unavidable. Will Ten Crowns neg the Authority of an entire pantheon, multiple members of said pantheon being above BB's?

      Can't really judge (Didn't play JP). That's how it is on the profile.

      Maybe it can't (Don't really wanna talk about the messy scaling chain debated above), but Gil might just bring some shields out, like Rho Aias.

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    • We are once again at that point of hindu gods being better, yet no evidence has been presented. Again, "entire pantheon" is a misguiding argument. You only know what the strongest gods can do, the rest may as well be fodder. No evidence has been presented supporting the claim that Arjuna can somehow survive Ea. 

      Also, Power of the Beginning can be used to boost Gilgamesh's power, so Arjuna one-shotting him with something is unlikely. 

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    • Here we go again... (One might just make a thread to discuss & decide the hell out of the scaling chain)

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    • Like we discussed 8D BB and the Moon Cell. It's not gonna end well. 

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    • Even if Hindu Gods is not better than other major Deity its not makes them weaker than BB authority in fact Arjuna did erase Karna with KK on while Mooncell and earth mother goddess authority cannot do such thing

      We also have no evidence of Hindu Gods being lesser than other gods, Nasu just want to keep this vague due to IRL religion reason

      Sees all possibilities and alternate timeline doesnt makes you able to avoid unavoidable attack, in fact Arjuna can just erase Gil with Shiva's authority

      Arjuna cant tank EA? I have said Multiple time not even Vasavi shakti an anti divine NP can Kill Godjuna, VS is comparable to EA especially when fought divine, so what's is your evidence of Arjuna cant tank EA? Say i have no evidence is not change anything

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      At this point i thinking this match is pointless since no matter how strong the newcomer servants is, Gil always be in number one for being strongest servant in the series and Nasu really love to push Gil even further in wank powerlevel wise, heck he even can withstanding Qlipoth Rizome if Nasu want

      Whether or not Gil is the number one servant doesn't really matter, because it doesn't make him unbeatable. It is canon that in a battle between Lancelot and Gilgamesh, Lancelot will win. 

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    • Lancelot won in the Fighter Jet battle, in the actual ground fight Gil would have won if not called back.

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    • Nope. The Fate Zero Grand Order confirmed that in a straight up ground fight with no outside interference Lancelot would win

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    • That....Is so incredibly dumb.......

      Like, I assume that's through Gil jobbing like a madman

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    • I assume he didn't pull out Ea or anything like that, but otherwise Lancelot is kinda a hard counter to Gil, so I don't think its all that strange

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    • I mean, part of it is that Lancelot is fast enough to use whatever he throws at him himself and can use them better than Gilgamesh.

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    • Yeah, when you look at it like that, it is Kinda like the Shirou vs Gil fight but more in Shirou's favor since he not only has the stat advantage, but he takes Gil's weapons and uses them better than he does

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    • Basically anyone with a speed advantage has a good chance of trouncing Gilgamesh, since at that point nothing in GoB can do much. Alcides could grab them out of the air in the hundreds and Richard could dodge them in the thousands iirc.

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    • Assassin EMIYA should be able to take him through his winning combo of:

      Presence Concealment -> Time Accel -> Conceptual Fuckery

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    • HOW MANY GILGAMESH THREADS AM I GONNA SEE IN A WEEK?

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    • Yobo Blue wrote:
      Basically anyone with a speed advantage has a good chance of trouncing Gilgamesh, since at that point nothing in GoB can do much. Alcides could grab them out of the air in the hundreds and Richard could dodge them in the thousands iirc.

      To be fair, Cu, who has a skill specifically against projectiles, still lost after a long battle.

      Thing with Alcides is, iirc, manmade weapons are flying toothpicks against him.

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    • Yeah, but he was pulling them out of the air before they even hit hi. No pelt was needed.

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    • You are the one claiming that Hindu gods are the strongest. So back that claim with evidence. 

      Arjuna can't erase Gilgamesh. 

      Vasavi Shakti does not have the same attributes as Ea. 

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    • Arjuna is currently in revision.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3238035

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    • This thread in a nutshell:

      AA: Hey! I have this wall of Authorities and I'm gonna XE you off the Vimana!

      G: Hey! You can't do that! Loads of fodder Authorities means nothing in the face of the one and only AUO's infallible Authority!

      AA: No, you don't!

      G: Yes, I do!

      And it goes on and on.

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      You are the one claiming that Hindu gods are the strongest. So back that claim with evidence. 

      Arjuna can't erase Gilgamesh. 

      Vasavi Shakti does not have the same attributes as Ea. 

      Who is claiming that? Hindu gods should be comparable to other gods of their respective caliber. 

      Why wouldn't his authority of destruction work? Its superior to authority of the earth mother goddess, which is what Gil scales to. 

      Ok? I wasn't event aware Arjuna has VS

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    • Firstly, I wasn't responding to you. Secondly, the whole thread is filled with "hindu gods are so powerful, better than everything else" yet there is still no quote supporting that. Thirdly, there you go with claiming superiority.

      BB has hindu gods at her disposal, yet they are not the strongest gods she has. So, why are they suddenly superior? 

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:

      Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      At this point i thinking this match is pointless since no matter how strong the newcomer servants is, Gil always be in number one for being strongest servant in the series and Nasu really love to push Gil even further in wank powerlevel wise, heck he even can withstanding Qlipoth Rizome if Nasu want

      Whether or not Gil is the number one servant doesn't really matter, because it doesn't make him unbeatable. It is canon that in a battle between Lancelot and Gilgamesh, Lancelot will win. 

      Canon? Accually no. The anime didn't has this so many fans went headcanon. "The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore."

      https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_4

      Don't forget that it was mentioned in Fate/Zero stuff that Gilgamesh can end the 4th Grail War in a single night if he really wants.

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    • NNin wrote:

      Canon? Accually no. The anime didn't has this so many fans went headcanon. "The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore."

      https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_4

      Don't forget that it was mentioned in Fate/Zero stuff that Gilgamesh can end the 4th Grail War in a single night if he really wants.

      ???

      Dude, you know that in the fate/zero FGO event they confirmed it that Lancelot would win on a ground battle between him and Gil, right? this isn't headcanon at all

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    • Can't Arjuna just cover himself in "Hakai" to defend against enkidu? Also both of them have comparable clairvoyance.

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:

      NNin wrote:

      Canon? Accually no. The anime didn't has this so many fans went headcanon. "The next count of glowing Noble Phantasms reached thirty-two. This time, even Rider kept silent. Berserker had endured a continuous attack of sixteen Noble Phantasms, but there was no way to resist twice that number. That was the same for all the other Servants. Nobody could estimate the limits of the latent power of the golden Archer anymore."

      https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_4

      Don't forget that it was mentioned in Fate/Zero stuff that Gilgamesh can end the 4th Grail War in a single night if he really wants.

      ???

      Dude, you know that in the fate/zero FGO event they confirmed it that Lancelot would win on a ground battle between him and Gil, right? this isn't headcanon at all

      And in Grand Order it was Lancelot, Mash, Diarmuid, Zhuge Liange (with Fate/Zero know-how) vs. Gilgamesh. Like in 50:00 https://youtu.be/_NzZfM10f9g

      It was 4 on 1. Gilgamesh had disadvantage.

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Firstly, I wasn't responding to you. Secondly, the whole thread is filled with "hindu gods are so powerful, better than everything else" yet there is still no quote supporting that. Thirdly, there you go with claiming superiority.

      BB has hindu gods at her disposal, yet they are not the strongest gods she has. So, why are they suddenly superior? 

      I don't think a single person is saying person on this thread is saying that the hindu pantheon is better than every other pantheon in fate. What people are claiming, is that the pinnacle of the gods that Berserker has access to has authority that trumps the authority of those that BB usually uses. I'm claiming that the authority of the supreme beings of divine pantheons would be superior to Authority of the moon or authority of the earth mother goddess, which is what BB uses. 

      Whether or not she could use the authority of Mara, or Vishnu, or Ereshkigal, or Zeus, or Shakyamuni, or other High tier divine spirits doesn't really matter, because she doesn't. She doesn't have, or doesn't use, authority comparable to that of a sun god or higher, because otherwise the authority of the sun wouldn't have no selled everything she has. My claim is not that Hindu Gods specifically are superior to her authority, its that Sun Gods, Death Gods, Supreme Gods, etc. are superior to her authority. 

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    • Yes, and I am asking for evidence to support that claim. KK did not "no sell everything she has". Once again, I asked for evidence to support that. 

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    • Last I checked we are debating based on the profiles, right? That's what the profiles say, so if you think they are wrong, then go make a revision thread and get Karna downgraded. 

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    • We are debating based on facts, valid assumptions etc. It's a debate, therefore I am allowed at any point to ask for evidence to support a claim, and in this case it's a claim that hugely affects this versus match. Profiles are edited by people and I am definitely not going to take everything at face value. Until recently people still argued that full power Gilgamesh is arrogant because that's what was written on his profile and we corrected them every time. That weakness stayed there for years. Had people purely used what was written on the profile then a lot of his matches would end differently. 

      If you are debating for one side it's assumed you can defend your claims at any point. Major ones at least. 

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    • If it were a 1v1 debate like I do off sight then sure, but then I we wouldn't be doing this on a VS thread board, we would be doing it on Discord, or somewhere like that. If you have reason to believe they are wrong, then get them changed. 

      We are debating based on profiles, and if we weren't I would be debating a lot differently, but welcome to VS wiki, were we create indexes for characters and then debate based on those indexes. If we weren't debating based on indexes, I would argue that both Arjuna and Gil should be higher than where they are now. This is not a 1v1

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    • Well, I am lazy. For the sake of the thread, I'd still like evidence. I am happy to wait, there is no rush. But, I am not letting Gilgamesh lose without some proper arguments.

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    • Ok so bring your evidence to support claim that BB have higher authority and EA can kill Arjuna

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    • My evidence is the profile. I'm not gonna dive through the entire translated lets play of CCC for a clip a few minutes long at most when the entire point of the profile is that we don't need to do that. Making that thread will basically just be going, "I don't remember this happing when I played through the game, can I see some evidence that it did." 

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    • Is this match inconclusive?

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    • Nope Arjuna win easily

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    • GLHF22 wrote:
      Nope Arjuna win easily

      Nope it still unknown you silly

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    • Its not unknown if we go by the profiles

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    • Doesn't matter, as i said again this match rather really pointless at this point

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    • Yeah if you burnted out again then don't come here XD

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    • Implying i never come to every Nasu match

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    • I think now AA lacks feats as normal servant (we only know he can't unlease his NP at max power as servant) to compare him with servant Gil so we assumeing they are both at peak for the sake of discussing right?

      Though I think AA is comparable to Karna so they are likely around the same tier as top servant.

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    • Was it not already stated to be at peak for both in this thread?

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    • The title also says 'battle for the title of strongest servant'.

      You can't make a battle for the best baseball player if both players are running with guns like it's an american school lunch time.

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    • Dude, poor taste

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    • GLHF22 wrote:
      Gilgamesh

      > Have almost all human power via GoB

      Arjuna

      > Have atleast 330 million Gods authority

      GG

      And yet humans kill gods in the real world and Nasuverse so...

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    • IronViking 

      And yet humans kill gods in the real world

      Only at the cost of western civilization kek

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      IronViking 

      And yet humans kill gods in the real world

      Only at the cost of western civilization kek

      Alright settle down my little nietzsche wannabe.

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    • I thought you were making a Nietzsche joke to. What were you referencing then? 

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      I thought you were making a Nietzsche joke to. What were you referencing then? 

      Actual god killing, of which Gilgamesh did plenty. And The whole point of Star servants who defy gods and forge the path forward for humanity whether Humanity wants it or not. The closer we get to tech the farther we get from religion too in both universes. To say "the west" is "killing" god is how 12 year olds view the world. Religiousness comes in cycles and is molded over time. Greek Gods morphed into Roman Gods which were supplanted by Christianity's God which absorbed the stories of other pagans as it supplanted them which is itself viewed in a more secular view. The lessons and point of religion remain everywhere. Except in Socialists whose gods are the state and whose emaning is stripped over everything of value.



      But anyway more simply. Gilgamesh killed divine beings all the time. And 330 million gods is cool and all but also somehow exists concurrently with an All powerful being or force? Due to the hodgepodge of simulatnaously true religions in the Nasuverse there is always someone more pwoerful.

      Also I think Gilgamesh that lived into the year 11900(?) would be infinitely more wise and powerful.

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    • I knew what you meant in the Nasu sense, obviously, I was asking about the real world. I think to say that the west is killing god kinda misses what Nietzsche was trying to say, more so that since christianity was the basis of our moral systems, tossing it out is short sighted

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      I knew what you meant in the Nasu sense, obviously, I was asking about the real world. I think to say that the west is killing god kinda misses what Nietzsche was trying to say, more so that since christianity was the basis of our moral systems, tossing it out is short sighted

      And Im positing that the west isnt destroying god in that sense. Sure a small, and i emphasize small, minority are trying to, but most people still follow basic principles entailed in that type of religious thought because they are useful to have. That tiny minority are going to have a comeuppance as things normalize. As an example the LGBTs can only ally with Islam which regularly tosses them off buildings for so long before it breaks or one or both sized moderate or fight.

      Back to the versus. I dont like Gil all that much but I still think he could take Arjuna Alter because of his legend and wisdom. At least as they are and not as servants. As servants not only has Gil lost he has lost EVERY time which is hilarious.

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    • We went from a usual versus thread to problems involving the Left movement in the West. 

      Nothing is impossible in these threads.

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      We went from a usual versus thread to problems involving the Left movement in the West. 

      Nothing is impossible in these threads.

      If its relevant its relevant. Were talking about godkilling here. That said it was a wrong assumption that started it. I have fleshed it out since then

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    • Any argument that would help us close this thread? I also stated that those "330 million gods" are meaningless as an actual argument. 

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    • I see this as evidence they're pulling NP's and Authority of Gods powerful enough to affect Reality.

      Tier -1 when "When Gilgamesh and Arjuna Alter clashed, their powers were great enough to cause an effect on the discussion of reality itself.".

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    • So far from what I've seen I'm going with Arjuna takin the W

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Any argument that would help us close this thread? I also stated that those "330 million gods" are meaningless as an actual argument. 

      I did recall somebody saying something about "Kama < Shiva, and Mara <= All Hindu Gods"

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    • AA: 6

      G: 2

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    • What are the arguments for Arjuna that people are voting for him? 

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    • Diinou HotHead wrote:
      ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      Any argument that would help us close this thread? I also stated that those "330 million gods" are meaningless as an actual argument. 
      I did recall somebody saying something about "Kama < Shiva, and Mara <= All Hindu Gods"

      Apparently according to Nasu Karna is apparently the most powerful. This was before FGO tho

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    • Damn. Tier 2 Nasu was a mistake

      Gilgamesh for swags reasons, just to keep this one afloat.

      huehuehuehue

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    • Gil fra

      the altjuna arguments are literally just he ate more gods so he wins somehow

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    • What exactly are the win conditions that Gil has beyond Enkidu that Berserker doesn't? Enkidu is basically the only reliable win condition, since as nothing else he has is gonna be working do to the difference in Authority. Berserker literally just has to flick their wrist and destroy the cosmos, and gil along with it

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    • Having more authority than someone doesn't just make you impervious to everything they do unless that is specifically part of the authority btw

      I.E Earth Mother Goddess specifically makes you impervious to anything anyone born if Earth does but if someone from outside of Earth attacked you would be hurt regardless of how much less authority they have

      The only reason that happened in CCC is because everything BB did was specifically authority based so having more authority stopped her

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    • And Gil just needs to stand menacingly to survive it, 

      There is still no proof that his Authority outclasses Gilgamesh, on which your entire argument is based of. 

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Having more authority than someone doesn't just make you impervious to everything they do unless that is specifically part of the authority btw

      I.E Earth Mother Goddess specifically makes you impervious to anything anyone born if Earth does but if someone from outside of Earth attacked you would be hurt regardless of how much less authority they have

      The only reason that happened in CCC is because everything BB did was specifically authority based so having more authority stopped her

      He has the same authority that backs Karna's armor, as well as Saraswati's authority which can no sell when used as defensive power null. Those will No Sell the vast majority of Gil's attacks since he can just regen otherwise

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      And Gil just needs to stand menacingly to survive it, 

      There is still no proof that his Authority outclasses Gilgamesh, on which your entire argument is based of. 

      Why would Gil survive it exactly? 

      Yes, it does. He is loosely comparable to BB's authority, which a single Sun God in his pantheon no sells

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    • Because why would resetting a universe kill him? 

      Again, claims and no proof. 

      Saraswati's authority is a non-factor here. 

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    • The authority backing k&k would just give him a 90% damage reduction and Saraswati's authority is over things that flow which none of Gil's things would count as really

      There is no proof that a single sun God in the hindu pantheon no sells all of BB's authority as again they are not even close to Amaterasu if that is what you are trying to scale them to

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    • Even if he survives the first reset, all it takes is the flick of his wrist to do successive universal attacks beyond what Gil can manage to survive. 

      The profiles are my proof, as we talked about before. If you disagree, make a CRT. 

      Based on? 

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    • A universe resetting is a baseline feat

      Literally any decent Low 2C can survive that

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    • Its supposed to be superior to any NP found in fate before, which would incude other universal NP like Ea or VS. 

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    • Which Gil can still tank because he's far beyond Baseline

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    • Are you claiming Gil could tank a full power blast from Ea with no protection from Authority? Because that is what Arjuna's NP is superior to

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    • This really isn't "let's compare their profiles". Those two characters fight, meaning Gilgamesh isn't going to stand there like an idiot and allow Arjuna to attack him. He could also boost himself again with his ability.

      If the profiles had evidence I would accept it, but they don't so I don't. 

      Based on the fact that Saraswati is on the level of Parvati, who is not on the level of Goddes of Catal Hoyuk. Therefore, her abilities don't matter. 

      Yes, Gilgamesh can tank Ea because Ea does nothing to him. And where is a statement saying Arjuna's NP is the strongest? 

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    • Where is it stated that Mahapralaya is superior to everything else in the verse?

      Also yes he could tank Ea

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Where is it stated that Mahapralaya is superior to everything else in the verse?

      Also yes he could tank Ea

      Based on the fact that Sherlock states that Mahapralaya is so powerful it is almost inaccurate to call it a Noble Phantasm. Since Ea is within the bounds of what can reasonably be called an NP, it would be weaker

      Here is the quote:

      "Noble Phantasm...No, it's swelling vast amount of energy of such level that even the word Noble Phantasm can't explain. In fact, there are many overflows in our measuring equipment over here..."

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    • Isn't resetting the universe an extreme uber powerful form of Causality Manipulation that needs Acausality type 4 to counter?

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      This really isn't "let's compare their profiles". Those two characters fight, meaning Gilgamesh isn't going to stand there like an idiot and allow Arjuna to attack him. He could also boost himself again with his ability.

      If the profiles had evidence I would accept it, but they don't so I don't. 

      Based on the fact that Saraswati is on the level of Parvati, who is not on the level of Goddes of Catal Hoyuk. Therefore, her abilities don't matter. 

      Yes, Gilgamesh can tank Ea because Ea does nothing to him. And where is a statement saying Arjuna's NP is the strongest? 

      I wasn't claiming Gil was going to just stand there, but Gil doesn't have anything that will let him dodge the end of the cosmos. 

      We are debating based on the profiles, so if you disagree go make a CRT and ask for scans. 

      I'm not sure I agree they are on the same level, but the clear difference between them is that Saraswati has been shown to have directly combat applicable authority which works Hax wise even if one wants to claim it lacks AP wise. 

      Do you have scans or a quote of Gil tanking a direct blast of Ea towards him. And again, it cannot be based on Authority allowing him to survive a similar attack, because Mahapralaya will be of a superior magnitude of authority

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    • That sentence is on the same level as Da Vinci's statement which everyone used to claim no Fate character can bust a planet. It has value, but in this case it's overextended. It doesn't imply that it's the strongest noble phantasm. 

      Maybe he can go to imaginary numbers space. Maybe he just sits while it happens knowing it will do nothing to him and he just uses Ea. 

      It's your choice to debate how you want, but I'm not making a revision thread if a profile is bad that it lacks evidence. You are using it to support your argument. It's your job to defend it, not my job. 

      An Authority that would not affect Gilgamesh.

      He literally stands in the middle of the "storm" that Ea creates when it starts to devour everything. Mahapralaya will be of no magnitude. 

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    • Aren’t Planets Low 2-C-2-B in their own right in the Nasuverse tho?

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    • Is Arjuna (Thanos Class) NP resetting the universe via time manipulation , or Causality Manipulation? Because one can be countered, and the other can't be without an equal resistance or Acausality

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    • Arjuna can do it casually and asany times has he wants and yes you need acausality type 4 to survive.


      Also having Authority is relevant to this fight so I don't see why you all keep dismissing it Authority determines how much can you actually control in the universe especially concepts.

      And last time I Check Gil lacks type 4 acausality Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

      But not arjuna so as I can see Arjuna as a better edge especially the fact e resite precog on a whole new level better than Gil.

      Also can some of you stop bringing 330 mil pantheon of gods it's literally irrelevant no one said Arjuna was going to win by that so I don't know why you keep saying this is our only argument.

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    • Bloody hell man, i stated multiple time Arjuna authority > BB authority you are the one who have no basis of your argument, BB with Catal hoyuk authority cannot erase Karna whle Arjuna can erase him without any problem

      You always tell me to bring evidence then i bring It, so What your evidence of EA can kill Arjuna? What is your basis of Arjuna cant erase Gilgamesh?

      No offense but You sounds like Gilgamesh Fanboy who doesnt want Gilgamesh lose to anyone that i always found in every site.

      Anyway Arjuna already have 6 vote so one more vote

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    • And Gil has 5 vote so far

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    • To be fair, it was the MoonCell, not BB, who couldn't erase Karna. It also wasn't Karna himself, but it was his Armor that he gave to Jinako that didn't get erased instead. Jinako kept it, and it allowed her to survive and return to earth. This happened after BB's defeat, and defusion with the mooncell.

      My vote is still on Arjuna with universal resetting

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    • Arjuna fra.

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    • So now its 7-5 so grace for incon starts I guess

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    • That's 7 vote for Arjuna not inconclusive

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    • Im only see 4 for Gilgamesh, may you tell me who else?

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    • GLHF22 wrote: here is my basis

      "Even with the Authority of the Earth Mother Goddess, BB found it impossible to modify or otherwise destroy Kavacha and Kundala. Described as being difficult for even the Gods, who have dominion over concepts of time, civilization, and other aspects of reality, to destroy. The authority of the Moon Cell was completely unable to destroy the armor."

      Can even enkidu reach Arjuna? so arjuna just stand here when Gil trying to tying him ? the chain is indestrucable?

      Arjuna have a big AOE attack, even the chain will never be able to reach him as he can just shoot it with Pashupata or gandiva 

      Can even EA kill him? with Vishnu authority even Vasavi Shakti cant kill him, with Shiva authority even KK cant protect karna from being erased, so what Gilgamesh have here?

      @upgrademan Arjuna erase Karna with KK on so yeah Arjuna authority>BB

      Gil can tank Arjuna erasure is completely baseless

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    • My only issue with that is the distinction between The MoonCell, and BB. anyways, i think we should make a general disuccsion thread about the scaling of things, and the reasonings why. I see people with clashing opinions on it, but back on point.

      With so much high tier gods absorbed into him. I don't see how Gilgamesh can kill him. he should be able to resist EA which uses spatial destruction, and warps time, then breaks reality. 

      Enkindu would be the best method of restraining Arjuna. I do see that, but both can see the future, and neither one has Acasuality to restrict that, or resistence. Arjuna should be able see that a "Universal reset" is the best method to subdue gilgamesh 

      Gilgamesh with the Ten Crowns where he can raise his parameters according to his will. That will make Gilgamesh tougher to kill. So, it would ultimately come down to whom has better hax.

      Also, does Arjuna stand inside the universal reset?? if so, shouldn't he have Acasuality type 4???

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    • GLHF22 wrote:
      Im only see 4 for Gilgamesh, may you tell me who else?

      Me, Swag, Everything, Witchy, and then Paul

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    • What are the current votes?

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    • TheUpgradeManHaHaxD wrote:

      He does stand inside it since he's at the center of all of it.

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    • 7 for Arjuna and 5 for Gil

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    • 10 crowns (or an alternate translation) should be added to Gil's profile if it has been approved already. Can anyone handle this? I am not currently aware of what it does, but from what I hear, it is distinct from BB's or Goetia's

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    • It's noted to be the same though, and I'm not sure if it was worth putting in the profile too, I mean, it's not part of his normal skills, but one specifically added in CCC.

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    • It is? Alright, if people have the scans to back it up then sure. But just to be clear, this part of the profile should definitely have scans to back it up linked, because I know many people will be skeptical otherwise 

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    • It has, under the Subjective Reality part in his profile.

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    • Good shit

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    • @AshenCrow

      Moon Cell can casually reset it's timeline as well. Don't try to make Arjuna's feat sound so impressive. It's still a Low 2-C feat, which does nothing to Gilgamesh.

      I keep dismissing invalid arguments without evidence. If people still claim that his Authority is way above Earth Mother Goddess with no evidence, I will claim that Gilgamesh can use Power of the Beginning to boost himself to that level and beats Arjuna with his fists.

      Not only does he already have resistance to those abilities, he could also move into imaginary numbers space, where Arjuna's attack does shit since that was used in the story, from what people are saying. 

      How does Arjuna resist precognition? Does Arjuna see all the possibilities of this universe and parallel ones?

      @GLHF

      At this point I am sure that you are either not reading my argument, not understanding it or simply ignoring it. Show proof of Karna tanking Cursed Cutting Crater or being able to bypass Ten Crowns. 

      Several good feats of Gilgamesh resisting being erased. Based on its attributes and what it does. 

      And with calling me "fanboy" you have shown that you have neither the manners nor ability to properly debate, therefore goodbye to you.

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    • Such an irony, you are the one who ignore my argument,

      First Arjuna authority is superior to BB

      Thus he can bypass Gil Resistance especially EE, Gil have feats Resist EE is good and all but don't forget that Arjuna erase Karna who have comparable resistance to EE with Gil


      "No offense but You sounds like Gilgamesh Fanboy who doesnt want Gilgamesh lose to anyone that i always found in every site."

      Pardon me of you are feel insulted by that but repeated the same thing Multiple Times is just bothers me, especially when you really ignore my argument

      So again can you yourself bring your evidence, feats, basis to support your claim and shows your ability to debate properly

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    • 1. Prove it.

      2. He doesn't. KK has a feat of resisting being passively erased by the Moon Cell.

      3. I am supporting my arguments with plenty of evidence, which can't be said for the other side. 

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    • 1. I have said it multiple Times so bring your proof to debunks it

      2. His profile said BB cant modify or Destroy KK if you don't agree then make CRT

      3.then show me, show me the evidence of why EA can kill Arjuna and why BB have superior authority to Arjuna

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    • Wow... Actually, before the release of F/GO, Nasuverse's force distribution (well, at least Fate's) was more-or-less clear. Gilgamesh (when at his peak) was undeniably the most powerful Servant.

      But just look now... I don't even know if I'm supposed to be amused or feel upest. 

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    • Trust me, Nasu will always push Gil even further in future because we know Nasu love wanking Gil

      And now vote Gil pls

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    • You might be right... It's probably just a matter of time before Gil reach the 1 tier hehehe... 

      But for now, before voting, I'm waiting to see how things will turn out in this thread :3 

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    • Fukouda-san wrote:
      You might be right... It's probably just a matter of time before Gil reach the 1 tier hehehe... 

      But for now, before voting, I'm waiting to see how things will turn out in this thread :3 

      Not much, it's just "Hey! Why does Gil have weaker Authority? He beat up BB who has Authorities of Gods even stronger than the Hindu ones!"

      "Of course he does, BB can't even modify K&K, which has the power of Surya (and the gods which I think refer to Hindu Gods can't do shit to it at all, making Indra resort to trickery to get it off him)"

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    • Then inconclusive ?

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    • Dunno, peoples still keep saying "muh show me evidence" bullcrap which is annoying

      And this match is trash tbh

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    • Diinou HotHead wrote:

      "Of course he does, BB can't even modify K&K, which has the power of Surya (and the gods which I think refer to Hindu Gods can't do shit to it at all, making Indra resort to trickery to get it off him)"

      just saying this seems like pretty clear evidence that Ajuna > Gil

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    • Considering the match was 7-5 for 24 hours I guess grace for incon is over

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Considering the match was 7-5 for 24 hours I guess grace for incon is over
      Received 209059909991598
      The result in a nutshell.
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    • It's 7 vote for Arjuna NOT INCONCLUSIVE!!!!


      No one here voted inconclusive I don't know where you got that I counted the vote all 7 where for Arjuna taking it.


      Not mad or anything just making a statement.

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    • > Not mad

      > Use capslock on first paragraph with multiple "!" 

      Doubt intensifies

      Someone should clarified the vote result then

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:

      I edited it because at first it was just first paragraph it not the first I posted that no one voted inconclusive but it keeps popping up so I wanted to grab attention.

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Considering the match was 7-5 for 24 hours I guess grace for incon is over

      I'm not sure that's how it works...

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    • Then someone should call the staff or else to clarify the vote result, doesn't matter since this match is piece of shit

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    • You need 3 vote difference. I'm willing to settle for inconclusive. The thread became a mess, I'm pretty sure a lot of those who voted didn't read the entire discussion and so on.

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:
      You need 3 vote difference. I'm willing to settle for inconclusive. The thread became a mess, I'm pretty sure a lot of those who voted didn't read the entire discussion and so on.

      Both sides has like, 2 people with good reasons to vote, Arjuna just has more FRAs, from what I can see.

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    • If the reasons are still being discussed because they are not stable then those are not good reasons. Part of the reason why I dislike voting before everything was discussed properly.

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    • None of the FRA for Arjuna were even debunked so they are accepted and if you guys don't want to accept them then I guess we have to do the same thing for Gil because it's the same thing with FRA

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    • They are being debunked this whole thread, which makes them unstable.

      This is why I propose inconclusive ending. We can go another few days doing this in circles.

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    • The only way they are "debunked" is by outright ignoring the profiles. Since doing so invalidates the match, counting them as debunked means it cannot be added anyway. Since this is a debate based on the profiles, they are not debunked

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    • The profile is your guideline, not your god. If you cannot deliver the evidence needed to support your argument then find someone who can. Nobody is forcing you to debate here.

      I debate two characters on this entire page. Gilgamesh and BB, because I know them and I can support my arguments with statements, feats etc.

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    • And I'm really tired right now but it really feels like u ou guys are trying to force the inconclusive.

      If I have to go a few more days to give Arjuna is win I freaking will and again none absolutely none of Arjuna stuff have been debunked at all

      Also 5 of Arjuna votes were explained why he would win 2 others put their 2 cents and then voted for reason above unlike Gil where only 3 out of 5 stated why he was ould win and one them was a lot of reaching about authority despite Arjuna having the best Authority of all fate so far.

      Void Manipulation (Should be able to incinerate beings from existence so that not even their concept remains through Shiva's Authority), can erase those he deems as evil, Creation (Is able to create Worlds through Brahma's Authority), Statistics Reduction (Capable of reducing the power of others just by letting them enter his domain), Curse Manipulation (Possesses Vishnu/Krishna's Authority as such he is also able to create, negate and extract powerful curses), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; Can restore, erase, repair and wash away concepts at will) all this from Arjuna's profile.

      Also this Likely Resistance to Void Manipulation (Can exist in a nothingness without any trouble) EA might not even work.

      They buffed Arjuna so fucking hard it's ridiculous.

      Im sorry but Gil is not winning this

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    • JUST CLOSE THIS MATCH OH MY GOD!!!! THIS MATCH IS PIECE OF SHIT AND TRASH!!!!!

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    • Jeezus. Chill the fuck out.

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    • I don't care, this match really pointless af since i already said Nasu will always push Gil even further so what the point to continuing? But no, we throw each other with "muh context and evidence" and circling forever which is why this match is trash and piece of shit

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    • I don't really want to spend another week dealing with this thread and I am pretty much the only one actively debating for Gilgamesh in this thread. That's why I am proposing inconclusive. I didn't know Arjuna winning means so much to you. I might even vote for Arjuna.

      Let me share some advice with you on debating. This sentence of yours: "...despite Arjuna having the best Authority of all fate so far.". This has 0 value. Why? Because it isn't supported by anything. That's a lesson I was thought by my professor long time ago. Basically, you are talking a lot, but you are not saying much. You can write as many claims in your comment as you want, but if they are not supported by something valid it's like they don't exist at all. 

      Void manipulation is not working since Gilgamesh resists being erased. Creation is not relevant in this combat. Statistics Reduction gets trumped by Gilgamesh's Statistics Amplification. Curse manipulation, I also don't see it being relevant for the combat here. Conceptual manipulation is also resisted by Gilgamesh. 

      Likely is just likely and I can say I don't accept it since it's not definite. Well, I don't accept it because it's not definite.

      They buffed Gilgamesh like 7 years ago and I didn't see anyone cream their pants because of it. Don't see what's so special about Arjuna. 

      Gilgamesh might or might not win this, but he is not gonna lose to bad arguments either. 

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    • Nasu buffing Gil is irrelevant as he isn't buffed rn.

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    • Jesus f-ing christ sorry for my bluntness but you been saying the same shit a lot of time just unfollow already for God sake no one is forcing you to stay here.



      And keep that attitude up and I will have to report you you are cluttering this thread with your none stop whining and lack of any good input so just stop its also A DEBATE Wiki what the hell did you expect.

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    • Debate site yes i know but goes heating up is no-no, and great, seeing your comment make me punch the shit out of my leg hard, thanks for that

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    • why are you thanking someone else for you deciding to punch your leg

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    • If the other side repeats their argument then I have no other choice but to repeat my own. If you read your comment you would see that your comment looks more like whining than mine. I did nothing that breaks the rules. Maybe a few low punches, which is usual and within the rules. 

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    • Monarch Laciel wrote:
      why are you thanking someone else for you deciding to punch your leg

      At least try being helpful instead joking around Monarch

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    • ThisIsMySwagPack wrote:

      Oof I don't think you listen much to your teacher either.


      But I guess it's one of those case's of do as I say not as I do got it.

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    • Ajura has better autorithy since

      Gilgamesh >> BB

      Alter >>> Hindu Sun god >> K&K > BB

      And Gilgamesh's resistance to concept hax is via his autorithy, so since Ajura's is higher he can concept hax him to death

      Berseker wins

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    • Alright, now that one of hell insult

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    • Who here votes for inconclusive?

      I do, for one.

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    • Overlord775 wrote:
      Ajura has better autorithy since

      Gilgamesh >> BB

      Alter >>> Hindu Sun god >> K&K > BB

      And Gilgamesh's resistance to concept hax is via his autorithy, so since Ajura's is higher he can concept hax him to death

      Berseker wins

      Can you not throwing another flame to an heated thread?

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    • Also, it's very strongly establishes that Sun autorithy >> Moon autorithy

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote: Alright, now that one of hell insult

      OK I admit that was harsh really sorry man.