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  • Schnee One
    Schnee One closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    20:36, July 4, 2019

    Made on request

    Speed not equal

    Good cole from Infamous 1

    Takes place at ground zero of the Ray Sphere explosion

    SBA otherwise

    Cole MacGrath:

    Saber (Sigurd):

    Inconclusive:

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    • Dafuq i do not requesting it! >:v

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    • That is a true statement velox

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    • Wait what? I swear i'm not requesting it since i gonna make it soon

      Oh well, i still can make Redo Sigurd vs Gardevoir at last

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    • I mean someone else requested it lol

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    • AP: Sigurd is a little over 2x, but with Cole's massive scaling chain he's much higher then that so it's not really that big.

      Speed: Cole is around 2x faster, really not that big.

      Abilities: Cole has an unbelievable disadvantage in Close Quarters, not only is he tremendously outskilled but he dies in a single cut, however due to the 2x speed gap he's not completely screwed the moment Sigurd gets in his face as he has the speed to dodge the initial sword strike and get out of range

      Now the biggest advantage for Cole, and the reason why I think he barely, and I mean barely takes this, is due to is lightning stasis and his range.

      Cole will be starting 4KM away as per SBA, and he has more then enough time to range spam Sigurd as much as possible with homing attacks, and electricity, while it won't instantly impede him, will slightly paralyze him and make it harder for him to close the distance,

      Cole takes this 6/10 times I feel, his massive versatility and range advantage combined with his small speed advantage will give him, in my opinion, enough time to wear Sigurd out despite his skill advantage and info analysis

      Before someone mentions Gram, 4KM gives Cole tons of time to move out of the way before getting out of range of its, and then wearing own an exhausted Sigurd.

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    • BUMP!!

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    • Cole FRA

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    • So I am just gonna assume none of Cole's shit counts as magic cuz where is the fun in MR no re.

      Sigurd can just drop rune barriers to take any hits from range, said barriers able to take hits from "great Noble Phantasms". Considering his physicals are equivalent to C rank, average is B and A+ are baseline 6-C, Cole is looking at High 7-A barriers.

      Since he has to make a trip to reach Cole, he has the time to amp with Runes, Clair helps him find his victim opponent and Ath nGabla means Cole can't run away.

      Running out of stamina and getting worn down is also pretty unlikely seeing as DKM provides him essentially unlimited mana. Note he can burn through more than it produces but since he is only closing the distance and the Runes aren't that costly, he will keep on going. Even if he can't get at Cole, he can simply sit behind his barriers expending basically no mana while Cole is forced to come closer, wastes his energy at range or they stalemate.

      Not gonna vote yet since I dunno what else Cole can do besides throw and absorb lightning.

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    • Cole's lightning ignores shields, even then they shock the barriers and then shock Sigurd himself.

      I have no idea why Sigurd would literally wait behind runes and not even attack his opponent, from what I recall he's literally never done this.

      Cole can also use his lightning to form explosives.

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    • Man I remember when I thought this was overwith due to me upgrading Cole to High 7-A

      that was yesterday

      I miss yesterday

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    • Coleslaw fra

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    • If Cole's abilities are considered migical MR nullifies or greatly weakens them, if they are not considered magical servant immunity is in effect.

      Sigurd's stamina is much higher so Cole can evade him with his higher speed for a while but Sigud will catch up eventually and destroy him in close combat.

      I vote Sigurd.

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    • 7A Lightning generated by a human doesn't exist and thus gets past mystery

      Conduit abilities in and of themselves are created through science and genetics

      MR is moot as is mystery

      Now how does Sigurd catch up?

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    • Uh, I don't think that's how it works. I'm pretty dure he's just immune to modern weapons, not anything non magic period. It's No Limits Fallacy to assume he is anyway.

      Cole FRA.

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    • Reppuzan himself even said Conduit abilities can affect servants on the Archer thread.

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    • Yeah, under Nauseverse rules, Cole's basically a walking mystery, since we only know how he got his powers. Even then, they're both unique to him, and we have no clue how he generates them. It'd be akin to True Magic, like Caster's spells, except much more limited.

      If it were considered TM it'd be the shittiest version of it lmao. You've got powerful conceptual abilities like control over "Consumption", or anything to do with Heaven's Feel, then you've got zappy zappy boom boom over here.

      "What can the 6th magic do?" "Oh he shocks you really good."

      Anyway, Cole FRA, just barely.

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    • I agree on the Lightning Boi counting as having Mystery by nature. The problem then arises, if his lightning has Mystery and is thus magical, MR negs it to hell and back unless there is some explanation in verse that would prevent his lightning schtick from being verse equaled to thaumaturgy.

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    • The barriers of Sigurd scales to Beatrice Mjölnir which is 6-C. Because on Prisma Illya, Bazett manage to block Mjölnir Ragnarok.

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    • Well, this is where we get into the problems of verse equaling.

      Cole's lightning is, rather explicitly, non-magical. There's no magic to it, just Psuedoscience. But, under Nasuverse rules, Cole's abilities would have an absurd amount of mystery because of his unique nature, and the mystery of how he generates and controls it.

      I don't think Sigurd's MR would block it. Mainly because, well, it isn't magic. It's just really strong electricity.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: I agree on the Lightning Boi counting as having Mystery by nature. The problem then arises, if his lightning has Mystery and is thus magical, MR negs it to hell and back unless there is some explanation in verse that would prevent his lightning schtick from being verse equaled to thaumaturgy.

      So lemme get this straight

      7A punches have mystery because 7A attacks don't exist nor are that strong

      But that makes punches magical?

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    • @Knight

      But thats just Tesla? His whole thing is that he learned to control lightning through science.

      @Gar

      It makes those 7-A punches magical.

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    • Those punches sure as hell aren't covered by magic resistance given Soichiro exists

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    • Or y'know. Shirou.

      Saber's A rank sure as hell didn't stop Medea's husbando from almost killing her. Probably won't stop Cole's puches either.

      And then there's Cole's lightning being a weird case. It would likely be in a weird area of Nasuverse rules since it isn't using magic, but still has mystery because of the unknown factor. I'm pretty sure Tesla's lightning is in the same field, though his mystery comes from being a Servant.

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    • False comparison when MR negates magic that is "loose" for lack of a better term, see literally every case of it being used. Reinforced fists is the same thing as Servants, constructs, bounded fields etc not getting negged by it. Shooting lightning is the same as Medea's rain of light or Semi's EX beams.

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    • Whelp, Cole has literally zero basis in magic and thus his abilities are loose. That works too.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: I agree on the Lightning Boi counting as having Mystery by nature. The problem then arises, if his lightning has Mystery and is thus magical, MR negs it to hell and back unless there is some explanation in verse that would prevent his lightning schtick from being verse equaled to thaumaturgy.

      Oh, just saw this

      InFAMOUS goes into detail what it is and describes that it isn't magic.

      Don't really think that's even required given there's no proof of it being magic to begin with.

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    • Yeah actually I don't think a servant can even negate normal electricity. It's explicitly stated that weapons need a certain amount of mystery. If we're being precise/splitting hairs about this, which at this point is needed, I don't think anything a Servant can do would outright negate Cole's attacks.

      They're way, way too loose to be played as magic or normal, and even with that there's nothing that says a servant can no-sell just anything non-magical. The only thing we have is that they can no-sell non-magical weapons, which isn't electricity.

      Splitting hairs? Maybe.

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    • Well it doesn't detail it that much, the exact rules of a conduit are vague

      Generally though, it's not magic but it's mysterious

      How the fork do people deal with Sigurd in verse if he yeets magic and non mysterious

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    • Magic Resistance is inconsistent, really. Despite NPs being magical, they aren't negated. Neither are servant attacks. Or enhanced human attacks.

      All would be technically magical, and therefore subject to being Neg'd, but they aren't.

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    • NPs are extremely strong power wise so the NP going through MR through strength makes sense

      Physically striking in and of itself is barely magical at all, and Cole isn't magic to begin with

      Assuming Cole's is magic through verse equalization brings so much inconsistency

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    • That's fair. And yeah, we can't really assume Cole is magical.

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    • Bump

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    • Bump

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    • Cole fra.

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    • One more

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    • Cole FRA.

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    • Annnnnnd Done.

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    • If only i make this thread this matches more interesting, oh well

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    • ?

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    • R/ihadastroke

      Or at least, that's what I think happened there.

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    • What i mean is if i'm the one who make this match and not Wok, i can at least make it interesting rather than giving Cole easy win via range

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    • It already was interesting. It was an incredibly narrow victory via range and versatility. It's not like it's a Star Wars match wger Cole just mindhaxes. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

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    • The 4KM range seems too much, if it closer into 50 to 100 meter then its anothet story, also people seems undersestimate Sigurd intelligent tbh

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    • Uh, one of the biggest inFAMOUS supporters on the site said Cole barely wins even under these conditions. I'm not sure what to tell you.

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    • Fair enough i guess, i just little annoyed people goes FRA without the other giving a rebuttal

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    • Anon had plenty of time for a rebuttal.

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    • I mean, people were debating how Mystery would interact with Cole and how that would effect things, so it's not like it went completely uncontested. The reasoning was just lightly probed rather than hotly debated.

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    • Even at these ranges, it's a very, very bare win for Cole. We're not downplaying Sigurd's intellect, nor are we downplaying his power.

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote: The 4KM range seems too much, if it closer into 50 to 100 meter then its anothet story, also people seems undersestimate Sigurd intelligent tbh

      Why the hell would you take away Cole's biggest advantage over a dude who so hopelessly outskills him it's hilarious?

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    • Typical me :v

      But as i said fair enough, i'm just little annoyed by the FRA train after all

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    • I mean

      That's how threads work I guess

      At least be happy InFAMOUS threads have a habit of being very peaceful

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    • Right

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    • Unless Fairy Tail and Naruto are involved anyways.

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    • I'm in a good relationship with Most of the Naruto supporters so that likely won't happen again soon.

      FT was because of one dude who is banned

      But you're right

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    • Speaking of FT should Siegfried vs Natsu being redo'ed?

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    • That sounds interesting but I don't know enough about either to say for sure.

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    • I was going to request Wright to make a Fate match ironically

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    • @Velox there's been worse FRA trains, trust me. Just check almost any JoJo thread, or the Ren Amamiya v Goku fight, which was a horrible stomp, yet no one even thought about if Goku had possible wincons while they FRA'd.

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    • Schnee One wrote: I was going to request Wright to make a Fate match ironically

      I'm listening.

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    • I made another Fate match, though it will probably go a different way than this one.

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    • Salter vs Cole, right? Also should we redo Natsu vs Siegfried? Also again.....i need a match for loli Jackie lel

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    • Was busy and didn't think I would be the only one to argue. Since grace is still going I may as well give it a go, what was Cole's answer to beamsword spam (I feel like we touched on it but I can't bw bothered to go read lol)? Gram = Excalibur and > Galatine, Balmung, Clarent etc all of which have pretty good aoe which he can keep use due to DKM giving him essentially infinite energy. And how does the ignoring shields work?

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: Was busy and didn't think I would be the only one to argue. Since grace is still going I may as well give it a go, what was Cole's answer to beamsword spam (I feel like we touched on it but I can't bw bothered to go read lol)? Gram = Excalibur and > Galatine, Balmung, Clarent etc all of which have pretty good aoe which he can keep use due to DKM giving him essentially infinite energy. And how does the ignoring shields work?

      Dodging due to the range Gap, Psudeo flight, and Speed as I mentioned Earlier, Cole is also extremely agile.

      Cole shoots a shield, the Electricity works across the shield and actually shocks the person behind it, people like David Warner can even Absorb Neuro Electrity by Touch.

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    • Since it's in GZ of the Ray Sphere there's plenty of places for him to refuel, though doing so would leave him vulnerable.

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    • Grace is over.

      I am closing

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