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  • The real cal howard
    The real cal howard closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    16:43, June 17, 2019

    5-B Shadow the Hedgehog (Game Character) vs Mega Mewtwo Y

    Shadow has access to Wisps and Chronicles equipment

    Speed is equalized

    Mewtwo MegaY
    TSR Shadow

    This is my second match hopefully this one goes better

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    • So. Mewtwo mindhaxes past Shadow's resistance ?

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    • No

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    • Theuser789 wrote: No

      Ok but why

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    • Shadow resists planetary mindhax

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    • Shadow resists planetary mind hax due to not have been afected by the Ifrit, who could mind hax Sonic who resists planetay mind hax from Dark Gaia, he also resists Black Doom's mind hax who could control all of the black creatures who are enough to consume the entire world population

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    • What’s Mewtwo’s AP?

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    • Around 717 ZT I think

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    • Mega Mewtwo Y also has planetary mind hax though

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    • That Shadow resists as I explained

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    • I'd say Shadow for reasons above.

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    • Well nobody voted for Shadow, he just said he resists mindhax.

      That being said I recall Mewtwo’s mindhax being in the millions due to mindhaxing an island, not planetary.

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    • That’s base, not Mega.

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    • I’m leaning a bit towards Shadow due to Mewtwo’s inability to deal with Chaos Control which Shadow usually leads with.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      That’s base, not Mega.

      Since Mewtwo Y connected every mons mind on the planet in SMD, wouldnt that scale his mind hax to mon that have mind hax resistance as well?

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    • Pretty much yeah

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    • I'll place a vote.

      Mewtwo'd win at base with extremely high diff but would take it with mid-high diff in Mega.

      For one, there's the slight issue of power. It's close but the first thing Mewtwo does is omniboost his stats. Inhibitor Ring removal would be beneficial but Mewtwo can still boost higher. Ignoring the issue of Shadow's resistance, that doesn't help against Miracle Eye even if mindhax wouldn't work. Mewtwo has more abilities as well. And Mewtwo can either heal off or regenerate from any of the more serious damage Shadow an do to him. Now obviously, Chaos Control is a big issue that Mewtwo can't necessarily overcome. But the problem is, Shadow has been shown using more than just the timestop portion of his chaos powers. He doesn't only (emphasis on only) spam just that. The results are very similar to the Aizen match, just with more difficulty.

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    • Kind of off topic btw, but im still wondering from my thread if Mewtwo should gain passive telepathy tracking and info analysis via what he did to Genesect. 

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    • I'm still not 100% sure if Shadow can take a mindhax from a Mega Mewtwo Y. Regardless even if he can, Mewtwo FRA

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    • Here’s my input

      If Shadow uses Time Stop(which is most likely his leading move,like he used against Silver)Mewtwo is screwed.Although if Shadow doesn’t lead with that I think Mewtwo would take the victory.Also Shadow likes to spam teleport and after a while I’m sure his next option would soon be time stop.Not voting yet

      P.S is Chaos Blast useful here?

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    • Shadow can also boost his stats with hero and dark mode and heal himself with Shadow heal.

      Shadow spams all aspects of Chaos Control, time stop, slow down time, teleportation etc, he will use time hax when he realises that Mewtwo's power is similar to Silver's.

      I vote Shadow via superior melee skills as well as Chaos Control and shadow heal

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    • @Oblivion Mewtwo is only slightly stronger so yeah Chaos Blast works.

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    • Oblivion Lightning wrote:
      Here’s my input

      If Shadow uses Time Stop(which is most likely his leading move,like he used against Silver)Mewtwo is screwed.Although if Shadow doesn’t lead with that I think Mewtwo would take the victory.Also Shadow likes to spam teleport and after a while I’m sure his next option would soon be time stop.Not voting yet

      P.S is Chaos Blast useful here?

      Yes

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      Shadow spams all aspects of Chaos Control, time stop, slow down time, teleportation etc, he will use time hax when he realises that Mewtwo's power is similar to Silver's.

      And exactly when will that be? Thats the problem with your argument.

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    • I barely give it to Shadow due to Chaos Control(especially if he leads with it),Teleport Spam,Chaos Spear and Omnidirectional attacks

      Screw you DB

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    • When Mewtwo uses telikenesis, the moment Shadow is grabbed he will teleport or stop time.

      Shadow can also boost his powers with Chaos Boost 

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    • Chaos Blast is useful, yes, but it would need to one-shot Mewtwo to be super useful for it to overcome Recover, and Shadow would have to worry about it being Me-First'd. Shadow would fully use time stop, and I'd be remiss to doubt that. But he hasn't been pragmatic enough to use something that would definitively destroy Mewtwo in that instance. As DeathBattle said once, you can't give someone the W because of one good move. There's also the fact that Mewtwo's debatably the better fighter, being designed to be superior to Pokemon that have mastered every martial arts, and Mewtwo is definitely smarter. Precog helps a ton too. Also both are telespammers so that won't be a boon to Shadow. Chaos Spear would bypass defense boosts but it wouldn't stop Mewtwo's regeneration.

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    • Shadow did open up with time stop in Forces.

      Won’t say he does that 100% of the time, but it is a possibility and it wouldn’t take long for him to use it.

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote:

      Shadow spams all aspects of Chaos Control, time stop, slow down time, teleportation etc, he will use time hax when he realises that Mewtwo's power is similar to Silver's.

      And exactly when will that be? Thats the problem with your argument.

      Shadow is cocky but only when he knows what he’s going up against.He used Time Stop against Silver when they began fighting so the same would most likely happen here especially if Mewtwo spams Telekinisis and other Silver esque attacks.Shaodw doesn’t toy with his opponents but more or less likes to dominate them making them feel worthless which he usually uses time stop to pull off.

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    • Shadow can heal himself as well, and Shadow has used time stop to finish a battle, he literaly used it agaisnt Silver who has a similar moveset to gain a upper advantage and to beat his clone in Forces.

      Death Battle makes terrible arguments, Shadow has many good moves, Chaos Spear to mantain range, all of his melee skills and Chaos abilities in Battle, Chaos Rift to make him confused, etc 

      Shadow can spam Chaos Blast in Chaos Boost as well as Dark Mode

      Shadow also knows every martial arts and has fought Knuckles who is a master and Shadow has fought way more in melee than Mewtwo.

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    • @Cal Martial arts is cool an all, but does that beat teleport spam? I doubt.

      Plus Shadow defeated a 4,000 year old Gizoid who can copy skills at a whim even after he gave up his Chaos Emerald to him.

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    • I'm not doubting he'd attack Mewtwo in time stop. Nor am I doubting he'd use it. I'm arguing that he wouldn't like, pull off Mewtwo's head while doing so. When he defeated Silver, he defeated him with a kick. I'm also saying that he wouldn't solely use it. Shadow has other stuff, which is why he wouldn't just time stop spam over and over. With Mewtwo's mind reading and precog, Shadow becomes predictable with it and Mewtwo'd just power null the ability. Time stop is a broken ability. I fully side with that. But only so if the opponent will use the specific abilities to take care of that right off the bat.

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    • ShadowWarrior1999 wrote: @Cal Martial arts is cool an all, but does that beat teleport spam? I doubt.

      Plus Shadow defeated a 4,000 year old Gizoid who can copy skills at a whim even after he gave up his Chaos Emerald to him.

      Mewtwo's very familiar with telespam though, doing it himself.

      Mewtwo has defeated even older opponents though, having combated the millions of years old Mew, Zygarde, and Deoxys.

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    • Shadow did spam agaisnt Silver, the battle only stopped because Silver countered with his own Chaos Control, which Mewtwo doesn't have, Shadow has used time stop to finish battles quickly like in Forces, also Mewtwo can't read Shadow's mind, Shadow resists that 

      He used time stop to beat his clone, he would use it agaisnt Mewtwo

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    • Also in game Shadow does spam time stop

      But I’m barely voting for him barely and can be swayed but for now I’m voting Shadow

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    • Giving Mewtwo the benefit of the doubt on this one, I don’t think reading someone’s mind is the same as being able to control it.

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    • Shadow has better skill in melee, Mewtwo usualy uses telekenesis 

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    • BTW since we were gonna make Wisps optional equipment for everyone but Sonic, does Shadow have access to the Wisps here?

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      also Mewtwo can't read Shadow's mind, Shadow resists that 

      Miracle Eye.

      Also, like I pointed out above, Mewtwo connecting with every mind on the planet connects him with mon who have mind hax resistance as well.

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    • If they are used it does help out Shadow a bit more but Shadow’s less likely to use them than Sonic

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    • Can't Shadow just freeze time then one-shot?

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:
      Theuser789 wrote:
      also Mewtwo can't read Shadow's mind, Shadow resists that 
      Miracle Eye. Also, like I pointed out above, Mewtwo connecting with every mind on the planet connects him with mon who have mind hax resistance as well.

      What does it do?

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      What does it do?

      As Cal already said, it removes resistance to mind hax.

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    • In terms of cqc, Shadow's probably better, but it doesn't really matter. Mewtwo's got the range in cqc via the psychic spoon. And I understand that Shadow likes his time stop. Definitely one of his favorite abilities. But he uses it only so well. His normal tactics to defeating a foe, like kicking them in the head, won't work here. Mewtwo'd catch on really quick and stop the Control by the time he says Chaos. I'm unsure if Shadow can use it or not without saying it but it's shown that he prefers to get it out. It takes a simple power null to stop Shadow from using Chaos Control for the rest of the match.

      To say more, Shadow would probably win if he ended this within the first ten seconds with a time stop + something like decapitation. The thing is, that's unlikely to happen. And a battle of attrition here doesn't benefit Shadow.

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    • How?

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    • In my opinion, I think it really depends on who hits first. I think if Shadow leads with time manipulation he could one-shot but if Mewtwo leads with mind manipulation then he can one-shot. I vote inconclusive.

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    • Theuser789 wrote: How?

      Looks at the opponent while using the move.

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    • Chaos Control takes two or three seconds and Shadow has beatten a foe as strong has him in one time-stop, Mewtwo doesn't even know what Chaos Control is

      Shadow has range with Chaos Spear

      Shadow has used Chaos Control without saying anything in SA2 before

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    • ShadowWarrior1999 wrote: BTW since we were gonna make Wisps optional equipment for everyone but Sonic, does Shadow have access to the Wisps here?

      Yes, I'll edit the post

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote: How?

      Looks at the opponent while using the move.

      Mewtwo wouldn't get a good line of sight via teleporting spam and time hax

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    • Couldnt Mewtwo also just see Shadows Memories and gain info on him with an eye glance? 

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    • Wisps give Shadow a far more viable wincon with VV and II, though I'm unsure if he'd be able to use them in time stop as Wisps'd get frozen in time too, but I don't think that's enough as it's still ooc for him to use them. Also with precog and telekinesis Mewtwo can just take them for himself or mindscrew them into turning on Shadow.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      The real cal howard wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote: How?

      Looks at the opponent while using the move.

      Mewtwo wouldn't get a good line of sight via teleporting spam and time hax

      It's not a line of sight thing, iirc.

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    • When has Shadow used Wisps before?

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    • Sonic Runners and Team Sonic Racing.

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    • Pretty much never in a combat scenario

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    • The wisps just make Shadow winning easier, as show in Team Sonic Racing he uses them in character, and the wisps are stored in hammerspace so Mewtwo won't even know that they are alien creatures that he can mind hax

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    • Oblivion Lightning wrote:
      Pretty much never in a combat scenario

      Shadow fought agaisnt Egg Paws in Team Sonic Racing, and Runners he uses them agaisnt enemies

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    • Should I give Shadow RPG equipment from Chronicles? Just thought about it

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    • I will like to note that Shadow uses Chaos Control to completely beat down his opponents so it’s very likely Shadow would beat down Mewtwo which then would cause Mewtwo to use recover and heal which in turn Shaodw would realize his beating meant nothing which caused him to time stop again and this time finish the job by killing him.In Shadow the Hedeghog he does spam time stop frequently when available which in this case he likely would

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote:

      The real cal howard wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote: How?

      Looks at the opponent while using the move.
      Mewtwo wouldn't get a good line of sight via teleporting spam and time hax

      It's not a line of sight thing, iirc.

      Mewtwo would only use that when he realizes that mind haxing won't work, which is something that Mewtwo doesn't use in character at the start of the battle

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    • Shadow used Chaos Control to kick Silver in the head once as opposed to an all out beatdown. Also keep in mind that Mewtwo regenerated when he was already dead. As a fetus no less.

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    • But couldn't Mewtwo just as easily take this if he leads with mind manipulation?

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    • Oblivion Lightning wrote:
      I will like to note that Shadow uses Chaos Control to completely beat down his opponents so it’s very likely Shadow would beat down Mewtwo which then would cause Mewtwo to use recover and heal which in turn Shaodw would realize his beating meant nothing which caused him to time stop again and this time finish the job by killing him.In Shadow the Hedeghog he does spam time stop frequently when available which in this case he likely would

      If Shadow is willing to kill he would beat him in the first time stop, Shadow only beats down someone when he doesn't want to kill, killing is OOC for Shadow

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Shadow used Chaos Control to kick Silver in the head once as opposed to an all out beatdown. Also keep in mind that Mewtwo regenerated when he was already dead. As a fetus no less.

      He kicked Silver and his clone because he knew that would incapacitate them or completely damage them.Shadow would most likely realize that Mewtwo is just recovering his damage and then time stops for the kill.Again this is quite a close match but Chaos Control IMO is to spammable and Shadow would likely end it with that once he realizes a kick wouldn’t do the job

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    • Modernmyrmidon wrote:
      But couldn't Mewtwo just as easily take this if he leads with mind manipulation?

      Shadow resists it

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    • @Cal I mean, it wasn’t like Shadow was trying to kill Silver.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Shadow used Chaos Control to kick Silver in the head once as opposed to an all out beatdown. Also keep in mind that Mewtwo regenerated when he was already dead. As a fetus no less.

      Silver counterd with his own Chaos Control, and Shadow wanted to know about Silver, not beat him

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    • The problem is that it shows that Shadow's method of dealing with something in time stop isn't to just instantly Violet Void it for example. Shadow does things in time stop that would hurt, if not kill. Not go for the biggest guns he has (no, not literally). Like how DIO punches things in time stop and doesn't like, freeze them. Or Sakuya throws knives at her timestopped problems instead of erasing them from existence. Shadow's not necessarily different here. Shadow doesn't hold back but he's pragmatic to a T. Plus again, he uses more than just time stop in fights. Much more. Time stop is a valuable ability (until Mewtwo catches on and nulls it) but it's not his only one. Plus the conversation assumes Mewtwo's going to let Shadow get away with time stopping when he has a means to make it not a worry or telespamming. Worst comes to worst, Mewtwo'd blow Shadow up from the inside or turn Shadow into light.

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    • Shadow has beatten himself with a sigular time stop, also you are understimating Shadow's combat inteligence

      Mewtwo doesn't know how Chaos Control works, and Chaos Control takes two seconds and Shadow doesn't need to say it out loud.

      Mewtwo can't one shot Shadow, meanwhile Shadow can use the wisps to one-shot Mewtwo, can Mewtwo hit ghosts or see things that are invisible? Because Shadow can turn into one

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    • Forces, correct? How'd he beat his clone? How many attacks did it take?

      I mean, not really. Shadow can be as smart as he wants, tbh. I doubt Shadow uses it any different than the other time stoppers I mentioned above, and time stop is more of their bread and butter than it is for Shadow (as it's their main ability while it's one of many for Shadow).

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    • Keep in mind that again, Mewtwo does still have precog. Mewtwo sees a time stop coming and waits it out via either teleporting away as Shadow can't sense and follow him or going invisible.

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    • @Cal Shadow had prior knowledge about his clones and knew that one kick would take it out.Although here it’s very likely Shadow would pummel Mewtwo with Chaos Spears and play it safe

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    • One attack.

      Shadow finishs battles as quickly as he can, unlike Dio who gloats, and Dio couldn't use his ice powers before absorving Joseph's blood

      Shadow will use time stop the moment that he realises that Mewtwo's powers are similar to silver's

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    • I mean, this was done before. The only difference was that Shadow was super (I know Mewtwo was composited, but it only affected his AP and Durability), and Shadow still lost. I don't see how this changes anything. In fact, this probably just gives Mewtwo an easier win. Mewtwo can remove Shadow's resistance to mind manipulation, put him to sleep, etc. And even if Shadow did use time stop early on, he would probably only use it for a single physical attack, not decapitation.

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    • Mewtwo had a 50 times Ap advantage, now they are about equal

      Shadow resists everything you said

      Shadow has defeated himself with a single time stop

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote: I mean, this was done before. The only difference was that Shadow was super (I know Mewtwo was composited, but it only affected his AP and Durability), and Shadow still lost. I don't see how this changes anything. In fact, this probably just gives Mewtwo an easier win. Mewtwo can remove Shadow's resistance to mind manipulation, put him to sleep, etc. And even if Shadow did use time stop early on, he would probably only use it for a single physical attack, not decapitation.

      -He doesn’t lead with removing Shadow’s mind resistance he leads with precog and mind manip.In that time Shaodw would likely lead for Time Stop

      -Shadow didn’t want to kill Silver and Shadow knew that he could oneshots the clone.Shadow in this scenario where he has no knowledge of Mewtwo would play it safe.

      -Also Mewtwo teleporting way a would just give Shadow more incentive to stay in time stop

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    • I’ll be back later to see how things go but I’m barely giving it to Shadow but can likely be swayed

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    • Shadow does not resist having his resistances removed, and he certainly doesn't have resistance towards sleep manipulation.

      So? Of course he would know what he would do and knows his weaknesses. The same can't be said for this fight, and he would very likely not decapitate Mewtwo when he stops time.

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    • Also, even if Shadow played it safe, he would probably only go for stabbing Mewtwo a couple of times with Chaos Spears, which is sort of similar to how Mewtwo resurrected himself as a fetus.

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    • Mewtwo doesn't use mind hax in character at the start of a fight, he wouldn't know that Shadow resists it until it's too late, Shadow ends fights quickly

      Shadow didn't exploit his weakspots, he beat himself via physical attacks , that's headcanon, if he can beat himself in one time stop then he can beat Mewtwo in one time stop

      Shadow will use a time stop the moment that he realises that Mewtwo's power is similar to Silver's

      Shadow resists sleep manipulation via the immunity idol

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      Mewtwo doesn't use mind hax in character at the start of a fight, he wouldn't know that Shadow resists it until it's too late, Shadow ends fights quickly.

      Not if he uses precog. Mewtwo will not purposely use an ineffective move as his starting move if precog blatantly makes him aware that it will not work.

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    • Saying he can beat Mewtwo becuase he beat himself is terrible reasoning. Also, Mewtwo does use mind hax at the beginning of a fight and would immediately know that it isn't working. Mewtwo will then use Miracle Eye to remove Shadow's reistance and then uses his mindhax again. Mewtwo also starts with precog so he knows when Shadow will go for time stop and prevent it.

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    • How do will all know that he will start with precog? Mewtwo usualy starts with telekenisis

      Mewtwo never uses mind hax at the beggining of the fight

      Shadow Chaos Control takes two seconds, it's shoter than Mewtwo's mind hax, if he can beat himself in a single time stop then he also can beat someone just as powerful as him in only one

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    • He beat someone he could one-shot, not someone as strong as him.

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    • No, he did not, Infinte's copys are just as strong as the original

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote: He beat someone he could one-shot, not someone as strong as him.

      He literally one shot himeself

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    • He cannot one-shot someone as strong as him. If he one-shot the clone, then that just proves that the clone was weaker than himself.

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    • If Shadow can one shot himself than Mewtwo who’s stronger can do the same without even worrying about hax. That’s a double edged sword.

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    • The replicas Infinite creates, which Shadow one-shotted is said to have powers as formidable as the originals.

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    • Well in theory people irl could one shot one another with a hard enough blow to vulnerable areas like the neck even if none is particularly stronger than the other. I don't think all the robot shadows are exactly on the level of the real one though.

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    • Not really, he beat himself in one time stop, he himself says that the copys are as strong as the original

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    • But the fact that Shadow himself one-shot his copy literally contradicts that statement.

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    • With his limiters off he is strong enough to obliterate an army of Mephiles the Dark clones though.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      If Shadow can one shot himself than Mewtwo who’s stronger can do the same without even worrying about hax. That’s a double edged sword.

      Shadow is not a glass canon

      He will spam time stop the moment that he realizes that Mewtwo uses telekineses, just like he did with Silver

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    • Those same copies also beat the crap of Sonic.

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    • But he never starts with those off. In fact, he generally only takes them off as a last resort.

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    • I was thinking of the robot shadows in heroes/his own game

      As for the Infinite clones, he did get the drop on them and Sonic was being ganged up on. I do think he's probably at least a bit stronger than Sonic in terms of raw strength though.

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      But the fact that Shadow himself one-shot his copy literally contradicts that statement.

      He says that they are as strong as the original imediately after that cutscene, and that's proven in Metal's and Zavok's boss battles

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    • @user. You’re implying he is though, if he’s strong enough o one shot himself. Also, Shadow had a whole fight with Silver prior to using CC though and Silver used TK then. Shadow just hit him over and over.

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    • There's no way the copies are as strong as the originals. Remember Classic Sonic literally one-shot the Chaos Clone.

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      But he never starts with those off. In fact, he generally only takes them off as a last resort.

      Shadow can increase his power with Chaos Boost as well as Hero and Dark mode

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    • How good's mewtwo's precog? Would it prompt him to immediately open with miracle eye and mindhax to avoid the time stop stuff?

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    • If they were as strong as Shadow, then Shadow wouldn't be able to one-shot. And, like Cal said, then Mewtwo should be able to one-shot regardless of his hax.

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    • Modernmyrmidon wrote:
      There's no way the copies are as strong as the originals. Remember Classic Sonic literally one-shot the Chaos Clone.

      The copys were able to harm and beat modern Sonic

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    • You can one shot people on your level though via certain methods, as I've established above. Durability isn't some monolith, some areas are more vulnerable than others. He had the drop on those copies so I don't see why he can't hit an area conducive to that, and stopping time gives him whatever point of contact he wants. Or just hitting more than one time, though he doesn't leave it stopped forever.

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    • Wokistan wrote: How good's mewtwo's precog? Would it prompt him to immediately open with miracle eye and mindhax to avoid the time stop stuff?

      It should be > normal Pokémon given that Mewtwo’s combat capabilities were canonically raised to the highest a Pokémon can have. So if Mewtwo has it, it should be superior to any normal Pokémon.

      TL;DR, it’s above Xatu, Espeon, Gardevoir, and Gothitelle.

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    • Infinite's copies are portrayed a bit inconsistently.

      Metal Sonic was able to fight off both Sonic and the Avatar, while the others were easily slain by literally everyone else.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      @user. You’re implying he is though, if he’s strong enough o one shot himself. Also, Shadow had a whole fight with Silver prior to using CC though and Silver used TK then. Shadow just hit him over and over.

      Because Shadow was trying to know Silver, here he's going for the kill, he will know to stop time agaisnt a enemy with telekenesis.

      Maybe Shadow has the Ap necessary to one-shoot himself and people with similar durability like Mewtwo, there's also Wok comment

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    • DMB 1 wrote:
      Infinite's copies are portrayed a bit inconsistently.

      Metal Sonic was able to fight off both Sonic and the Avatar, while the others were easily slain by literally everyone else.

      Zavok could also fight Sonic, and they beat him in the intro, clone Shadow even matches Sonic's hominig attack 

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    • It's impossible for Shadow to one-shot himself with a physical attack.

      It's much safer to assume that the close was weaker.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:

      Wokistan wrote: How good's mewtwo's precog? Would it prompt him to immediately open with miracle eye and mindhax to avoid the time stop stuff?

      It should be > normal Pokémon given that Mewtwo’s combat capabilities were canonically raised to the highest a Pokémon can have. So if Mewtwo has it, it should be superior to any normal Pokémon.

      TL;DR, it’s above Xatu, Espeon, Gardevoir, and Gothitelle.

      Does Mewtwo start with precog?

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    • That's not quite AP though. It means he can hit parts of the body that naturally can't take as much force to kill faster, which is a thing literally anyone can do. Time stopping just makes it easier for him.

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    • Wokistan wrote:
      That's not quite AP though. It means he can hit parts of the body that naturally can't take as much force to kill faster, which is a thing literally anyone can do. Time stopping just makes it easier for him.

      Shadow kicked his clone's neck, he can do the same to Mewtwo

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    • Mewtwo’s got two of those tho

      In all seriousness, even dis-considering the regen, given Throat Chop is a move Mewtwo can easily survive, a neck kick shouldn’t be too serious.

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    • How?

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Mewtwo’s got two of those tho

      In all seriousness, even dis-considering the regen, given Throat Chop is a move Mewtwo can easily survive, a neck kick shouldn’t be too serious.

      Shadow would simply stop time again( which is faster than Mewtwo's hax) and use Chaos Blast

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    • Has Shadow ever consecutively linked time stops before? Plus doesn’t Chaos Blast like...exhaust him?

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    • ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:
      The replicas Infinite creates, which Shadow one-shotted is said to have powers as formidable as the originals.

      As formidable doesnt mean they arent weaker.

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    • Shadow can spam Chaos Blast in Chaos Boost and Dark mode, Chaos Blast doesn't exhaust him afaik

      Chaos Control doesn't have a cool down, Shadow was going to use it again before Silver used his own Chaos Control and then created the time portal

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:
      The replicas Infinite creates, which Shadow one-shotted is said to have powers as formidable as the originals.

      As formidable doesnt mean they arent weaker.

      He says as strong as the original in the cutscene

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    • But Shadow one-shots his clone. That contradicts the statement. And showings are more reliable than statements anyways.

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    • Shadow was also holding an emerald though, which can be confiscated. Plus there’s many many other times where he just doesn’t stay in a perpetual time stop.

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    • "This is my second match hopefully this one goes better"

      Top 10 most unfortunate things said before disasters.

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    • Also, even if Shadow manages to one-shot Mewtwo somehow, Mewtwo will just automatically resurrect himself. The only way Shadow can bypass the resurrection is through mutilating Mewtwo badly, which Shadow won't likely do, and you can only assume that he will.

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    • Wokistan wrote: You can one shot people on your level though via certain methods, as I've established above. Durability isn't some monolith, some areas are more vulnerable than others. He had the drop on those copies so I don't see why he can't hit an area conducive to that, and stopping time gives him whatever point of contact he wants. Or just hitting more than one time, though he doesn't leave it stopped forever.

      Read Wok's comment Unroginal

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    • @Unoriginal Memes Those same clones beat up Sonic at the beginning of the game.

      @Cal Shadow doesn’t need an Emerald to use time stop. In Forces he did not have an Emerald.

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Shadow was also holding an emerald though, which can be confiscated. Plus there’s many many other times where he just doesn’t stay in a perpetual time stop.

      The emeralds are in hammerspace.

      What I meant was that as soon as time resumes and Shadow sees Mewtwo regenerating he will stop time again and finish the job

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    • Mewtwo has an AP/Durability advantage and Shadow won't take Mewtwo off-guard via Mewtwo's precog. 

      And even if he does, Mewtwo resurrects himself.

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    • Mewtwo Ap advantage is negible.

      Mewtwo doesn't start with precog.

      Shadow can also ressurect and Shadow can beat Mewtwo for good with Violet Void and Asteiroid

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    • Mewtwo’s stronger but barely.

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    • Mewtwo mindhaxes the wisps and Shadow doesn't even use them much at all in character. 

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    • And Shadow can res a maximum of two times while Mewtwo can do it anytime.

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    • The wisps are in hammerspace, Mewtwo doesn't even know that they exist to mind hax them.

      Shadow has used the wisps plenty of times in Team Sonic Racing and Runners

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    • Theuser789 wrote: Mewtwo Ap advantage is negible.

      Mewtwo doesn't start with precog.

      Shadow can also ressurect and Shadow can beat Mewtwo for good with Violet Void and Asteiroid

      He only has access to wisps here, no Chronicles equipment.

      I wanna remind everybody to please not be hostile. Not because of anything in the thread (because jeez, this match is going more smoothly than I thought it would), but just as a friendly reminder.

      Be like Shadow and Mewtwo. Be cool.

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    • Shadow isn't cool Hahahaha

      Ok sorry no more hostile comments

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote: And Shadow can res a maximum of two times while Mewtwo can do it anytime.

      Can Mewtwo resurrect from a Chaos Blast or Violet Void or Indigo Asteroid?

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    • Hey OP does Shadow have acess to the Chronicles equipment?

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    • Pretty sure Mewtwo can only resurrect from his brain shutting down.

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    • Mewtwo's capable of connecting with every mind on the planet in this form so he's very capable of knowing what the Wisps are with said planetary range. Plus hammerspace is only on profiles if it's canon. Link for example doesn't have hammerspace.

      Anyway, back to the point I was trying to make. Wok's reasonings on the Aizen thread hold up here. Shadow's wincons rely on option combos he hasn't done. He can do but hasn't done. The only fight Shadow has ever had where the opponent resisted time stop was against Solaris, yet it's apparent that Shadow has clearly not no-diffed them via spamming time stop nonstop, and Shadow has had many a fight. Shadow can win. Not gonna take that away from him. Mewtwo literally can't counter CC. It's just that Shadow doesn't do enough with it to net him a win and it's just one move.

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    • Can tank a Chaos Blast but can't survive the other two.

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    • Shadow has used Chaos Control agaisnt a telekenisis person and spamed It, he will use Chaos Control here, Aizen had a 50 times Ap advantage, Shadow and Mewtwo are almost equal in Ap, Shadow can use plenty of moves in the time stop to beat Mewtwo, he defeated his clone in a single time stop

      The we can't see the wisps, they are in hammerspace like rings

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    • He used it twice after Silver was already mostly defeated by Shadow using cqc, dude. He used it when Silver tried to attack him without telekinesis actually. Also wouldn't consider this spamming.

      Items being not physically on a person is a game mechanic. Not just for Sonic characters but for all characters.

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    • Theuser789 wrote: Hey OP does Shadow have acess to the Chronicles equipment?

      I decided to add the Chronicles equipment, edited the original post

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    • They were equal in the fight, Silver wasn't defeated, and Shadow didn't have the experience fighting a telekinetic user, unlike here, Shadow will use time stop, especialy since he's going for the kill, unlike versus Silver

      Shadow used a time stop, beat Silver then was going to use another imediately after it, there's also the fact that he can beat Mewtwo in a single time stop

      Tails asks Sonic were he keeps all his rings in Generations, implying that's more than game mechanic

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    • Shadow was going for the defeat though. He wasn't planning for Silver to get up. Same for Mewtwo. Shadow will kick Mewtwo, Mewtwo will tank it, and things ensue from there, likely being power null so Shadow won't do it again.

      Also Shadow's time stop isn't quicker. Shadow doesn't have to say it but he does still say a predictable Chaos Control most of the time. It's like Goku saying Kamehameha even though he doesn't need to.

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    • Shadow's time stop takes three seconds, Mewtwo's hax takes more.

      He wasn't going for the defeat because he didn't want to kill Silver unlike here, he will go for the kill like he did to his clone

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    • Almost all of Mewtwo's hax is instant though. The only thing that isn't instant are his non-hax. Only hax that takes longer is petrification and that's because it's induced by a beam/hit.

      Yet he kicked his clone. And throughout the rest of Forces he physically attacks from there on out.

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    • He also has the option of using spatial distorting attacks like he does in Sonic Battle.

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    • Not what this video says:https://youtu.be/fmiDOr-s7kk ( 5:40) It takes 10 to 20 seconds, in game it takes 4, one shotter from Chaos Control

      And that kick killed him, Also I don't know why we are acting as if Chaos Control is Shadow's only win-con, he can beat Mewtwo in melee, confuse him with Chaos Rift or BFR outside of space and time, use Chaos Spear to bypass durability, etc. That plus time stop that he will use in the battle thanks to his experience with telekenisis

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    • Anyways I will be out for a while, bye!

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      BFR outside of space and time

      This will not work since Mewtwo can come back from being within a void.

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    • Chaos Spear was addressed by Wok but even then, regen. Melee isn't overly useful because Mewtwo was in that game tk is better in every way (psychic beats fighting for a reason) and Mewtwo'd outrange via spoon and barriers anyway, confusion is useless because Safeguard, and BFR was addressed by Kukui.

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    • Theuser789 wrote: Anyways I will be out for a while, bye!

      Same bro

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    • Also, wouldnt Mewtwo use barriers in this fight? Because they are also capable of reflecting attacks.

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    • Chaos Rift also works as status effect inducement.

      I doubt barriers would work. The Chaos Blast can bypass the Diablon’s forcefield.

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    • Yes but can it bypass Attack Reflection? 

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    • Pretty sure it just overpowers said dude’s forcefield.

      Seriously though, Shadow gets power nulled and his biggest advantage disappears. Given Disable’s the first move Mewtwo learns it’s pretty adept with it.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Pretty sure it just overpowers said dude’s forcefield.

      Seriously though, Shadow gets power nulled and his biggest advantage disappears. Given Disable’s the first move Mewtwo learns it’s pretty adept with it.

      Actually would Mewtwo even need to use Disable?

      Because Mewtwo in the movie was able to block the powers of all the real and cloned Pokemon just by saying he'd block it.

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    • Mewtwo resurrected himself after getting shot in the head and having all of his vitals stop. It was not just his brain not functioning.

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    • Shadow FRA pt 2

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    • Also, if it wasn't already obvious, I'm voting for Mewtwo.

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    • I’m voting Shadow for mine and Theuser789’s reasons.

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    • Mewtwo FRA.

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    • Unoriginal Memes
      Unoriginal Memes removed this reply because:
      H
      03:07, November 23, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      Just asking, but are you voting for Mewtwo, Kukui?

      I didnt specify? My bad.

      Yeah, im going with Mewtwo FRA.

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    • I think that's 4 for Mewtwo (Cal, myself, Phoenix821, and ProfessorKukui) and 4 for Shadow (Theuser789, ShadowWarrior, Oblivion Lightning, and VioletVoid)

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    • I voted for Mewtwo hours ago

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    • I vote Shadow for Theuser789 and Shadowwarrior1999's reasons.

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    • Unoriginal Memes wrote:
      I think that's 4 for Mewtwo (Cal, myself, Phoenix821, and ProfessorKukui) and 4 for Shadow (Theuser789, ShadowWarrior, Oblivion Lightning, and VioletVoid)

      Hey, I voted Shadow too, you missed me.

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    • You voted for reasons above when there were no reasons though.

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    • Shadow FRA.

      Chaos Control and Shadow shouldn't be affected by Mewtwo's mindhax.Shadow is also getting the Wisps and Chronicles equipment which should be able to give Shadow the edge in this battle. My vote goes to Shadow.. 

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    • Shadow FRA

      I just don’t think Shadow would play it safe against a character whom he knows nothing about he’s far smarter than that.Chaos Control and Wisps are his only win con tho.

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    • Anyway

      Mewtwo(5)Cal,Phoenix,Unoriginal,Prof Kukui,Arsenal

      Shadow(7)Me,Oblivion,Shadow,User,Godhand,Golem Guy,Violet Void

      I think that’s grace

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    • Guys, Chaos Control isn’t an offensive technique. That alone can’t net him a win. And Shadow with a nullified Chaos Control via Disable hasn’t been addressed yet.

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    • CrimsonStarFallen
      CrimsonStarFallen removed this reply because:
      03:39, June 16, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Mewtwo FRA.

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    • Mega Mewtwo should take this for Cal's reasons.

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    • After reading both sides, voting Mewtwo FRA.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Guys, Chaos Control isn’t an offensive technique. That alone can’t net him a win. And Shadow with a nullified Chaos Control via Disable hasn’t been addressed yet.

      Oh how wrong you are on that.

      Chaos Control is the ability to manipulate Chaos energy and can be applied in various different ways, whether to manipulate space, time, teleport, or use various Chaos based attacks.

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    • U know what I meant. Chaos based attacks aren’t called Chaos Control. They’re called Chaos Spear, Chaos Rift, etc. Chaos Control is the spacetime warping move.

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    • The real cal howard wrote:
      Guys, Chaos Control isn’t an offensive technique. That alone can’t net him a win. And Shadow with a nullified Chaos Control via Disable hasn’t been addressed yet.

      Um....

      Yes it is, lmao. Chaos Control allows Shadow to stop time, slow down time, and mainpulate the fabric of space/time itself. He even has a crapload of attacks that a grounded in his ability to mainpulate space/time. Shadow's chaos control gives him a massive advantage in this area along with the Wisps and other amulets from Sonic Chronicles. 

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    • Godhand1999 wrote:
      Shadow FRA.

      Chaos Control and Shadow shouldn't be affected by Mewtwo's mindhax.Shadow is also getting the Wisps and Chronicles equipment which should be able to give Shadow the edge in this battle. My vote goes to Shadow.. 

      This was already debunked. 

      Miracle Eye negates Shadows resistance even if it is better than Mewtwos mindhax.

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    • Okay, this thread filled up so fast.

      I wanna argue, but I don't even know what's happening as of now. Is Chaos Control being called into question or something?

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    • Mews clone FRA.

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    • ShakeResounding wrote:
      Okay, this thread filled uo so fast.

      I wanna argue, but I don't even know what's happening as of now. Is Chaos Control being called into question or something?

      Not really. Cal meant to say Chaos Control as in time stop.

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    • Mewtwo FRA

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    • Has Shadow removing his Inhibitors been discussed?

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    • In my initial post, yes. If Shadow takes off his inhibitors, Mewtwo can just boost himself further. Mewtwo starts off stronger and has an almost passive omniboost, and he can just boost himself further.

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    • Gonna be honest, didn't expect this thread to blow up

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    • Okay, I can't form an opinion yet.

      I looked through this fast-filling behemoth of a thread, and essentially gathered this is a very difficult and close match to decide. The AP gap is close, both can telespam, they've both had their deal of threats with great years of experience, etc. etc.

      Shadow's wincon is incapacitation (from what I can tell) through a few means of doing so, and tbe Replenisher will help him in a battle of attrition. Mewtwo's wincon is basically killing Shadow twice (since he resurrects once with the Angel Amulet), power nulling, or mindhaxxing him.

      So here's few questions.

      One: If Shadow dies, what's stopping him from immediately stopping time once he resurrects? If he actually does, there'll be no holds barred when he comes back.

      Two: Is Power Null (Disable) a valid option here, and how does it work? I'd look into the profile, but I'm currently out and about.

      Three: Can Mewtwo really bypass Shadow's resistance to mindhax with a certain move?

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:
      Godhand1999 wrote:
      Shadow FRA.

      Chaos Control and Shadow shouldn't be affected by Mewtwo's mindhax.Shadow is also getting the Wisps and Chronicles equipment which should be able to give Shadow the edge in this battle. My vote goes to Shadow.. 

      This was already debunked. 

      Miracle Eye negates Shadows resistance even if it is better than Mewtwos mindhax.

      How? 

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    • Godhand1999 wrote:

      How? 

      Because Miracle Eye negates resistance to mind hax? Im not understanding the question.

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    • -Would Mewtwo instantly use that move after realizing that his mind hax won’t work?Even then would he get it off before Shadow uses CC?

      -If Shadow pulls of Chaos Control he essentially wins and I do believe that Shaodw would play it safe against a being he has no knowledge about.Shadow ensured he killed his clone when using CC in Forces and he didn’t want to kill Silver so Shadow will very likely kill when using Chaos Control.

      Right now I’m still all for Shadow but looking at inconclusive if Mewtwo can instantly bypass his resistance which would come down to whom ever uses Mindhax or Time Stop first

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:
      Godhand1999 wrote:

      How? 

      Because Miracle Eye negates resistance to mind hax? Im not understanding the question.

      Okay, I asked how will Miracle Eye help in this battle? Miracle Eye apperently removes physic resistance and makes Mewtwo "impossible to dodge" I believe. Shadow could literally avoid his techiques either by teleporting or stopping time. He can then use his techiques that incoperate Chaos Control into the mix to defeat Mewtwo. 

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    • Miracle Eye negates it to Dark Types. Shadow isn't a pokemon.

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    • Only Dark types are immune. This isn’t a Pokémon battle.

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    • TBF Shadow would be Dark Type if he was a Pokémon lol

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    • Wait

      Shadow isn't a Pokémon?

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    • What are the votes ?

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    • Mewtwo: 10

      Shadow: 7

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    • So it's grace

      When did that start?

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    • Theuser789 wrote: One attack.

      Shadow finishs battles as quickly as he can, unlike Dio who gloats, and Dio couldn't use his ice powers before absorving Joseph's blood

      Quick derailing to a finished thread, but this is wrong. Once he left the mansion, he killed Kakyoin in a single timestop, killed Joseph in just a couple of them because Joseph covered himself in hamon which would have oneshotted Dio if he actually tried to punch him, and would have killed Jotaro on his first timestop, too, if Jotaro hadn’t tricked him into believing he could move in his stopped time. Dio then got paranoid as he feared Jotaro could catch him off-guard during timestop and heavily injure him if he got close (which actually happened once Dio understood the trick just to find out that Jotaro could move in it regardless). Also, even if freezing didn’t work, that’s not really the point, as he could have just used mindhax, for example.

      Anyway, Mewtwo FRA

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    • Shadow is a completely diferent character than Dio, Shadow would finish the battle in a single time stop the moment that he uses telekenisis via experience to that, he already has beatten oponents as strong as himself in a single time stop

      Shadow can also boost himself Cal, he can use Chaos Boost, Hero and Dark mode which gives Shadow invunerability and take off his inibitor rings as well

      And Chaos Control is faster than any of Mewtwo's hax

      If speed was unequal Shadow would 100% win

      Also what I said isn't wrong Triforce, Dio didn't kill Polnareff in the stairs nor did he kill them in his room during the time-stop, simply using it both times to play tricks on them, also he spent a good amount of time monologuing in his stopped time while killing Kakyoin, and he chose a road roller to kill Jotaro instead of something simpler, he also wanted to know how much he could stop time after absorving Joseph's blood so he didn't kill Jotaro when he couldn't move after he wasted his seconds, and he didn't start with a time stop against Jotaro, he first wanted to compare The World with Star Platinum

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    • And to add the only mind hax useful of Mewtwo's is mind control, Shadow has fought in Heroes without memory as well as he can, he can fight normaly even without memory, so if Mewtwo takes Shadow's defence but choses to erase his memories instead of mind control that would change nothing in the way Shadow fights, it would be useless

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    • Test

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    • He usually goes for mind control instead of mind wiping.

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    • Any examples when Mewtwo used mind control at the start of a battle?

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    • Mewtwo tends to lead with grab and toss.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      And to add the only mind hax useful of Mewtwo's is mind control, Shadow has fought in Heroes without memory as well as he can, he can fight normaly even without memory, so if Mewtwo takes Shadow's defence but choses to erase his memories instead of mind control that would change nothing in the way Shadow fights, it would be useless

      That doesnt mean Shadow will fight as smart or offensively as he can normally does with memories.

      Like, Shadow can still physically fight without them, but that doesnt mean he'll know how to use specific abilities that would help him get the edge.

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    • He can fight just as well, Heroes proves it, the first thing he does is fight Omega and he can use Chaos Control is the first level, he also fights just as well against Sonic in their fight even without memories.

      As I said memory wipe would be useless

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    • Shadow wasn’t set to zero though. He could remember his name and how to fight.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      He can fight just as well, Heroes proves it, the first thing he does is fight Omega and he can use Chaos Control is the first level, he also fights just as well against Sonic in their fight even without memories.

      As I said memory wipe would be useless

      And again, this doesnt change what I said.

      "Fighting just as well" doesnt mean Shadow will go for specific abilities that would give him the edge or win right away. Him using Chaos Control is not enough of a justification.

      Also, how much of Shadows memories were erased when he did this? Because Mewtwo can input fake memories as well.

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    • He abosolute was, Rouge even says that he couldn't remember anything at all

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    • Going to point out that Chaos Rift can also do this even if Mewtwo is able to come back from BFR.

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    • What @Theuser said what I was going to say. Shadow is still a smart combatant even with memory loss. Like he's able to get Rouge out of the way and fight Omega, use Chaos Control and knows how to use it in Seaside Hill, and somehow knows how to use guns and teleportation in his own game where he still had memory loss.  Mewtwo erasing his memory would do nothing much but restart Shadow's memory lane in the Adventure games

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote:
      He can fight just as well, Heroes proves it, the first thing he does is fight Omega and he can use Chaos Control is the first level, he also fights just as well against Sonic in their fight even without memories.

      As I said memory wipe would be useless

      And again, this doesnt change what I said.

      "Fighting just as well" doesnt mean Shadow will go for specific abilities that would give him the edge or win right away. Him using Chaos Control is not enough of a justification.

      Also, how much of Shadows memories were erased when he did this? Because Mewtwo can input fake memories as well.

      All of them, Rouge says that he couldn't renember anything, fake memories wouldn't work, Shadow could fight even with fake memories inserted by Black Doom and Gerald, especialy Shadow post his own game when he doesn't have any doubt or cares about his past

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    • Even disregarding Safeguard, Distracted seems like just a concussion given getting hit too hard is POW moves or regular attacks can cause it.

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    • ShadowWarrior1999 wrote:
      Going to point out that Chaos Rift can also do this even if Mewtwo is able to come back from BFR.

      This actually wouldnt do anything to Mewtwo as Mewtwo can also gain temporary boosts in power when his attacks miss. 

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    • "Oh man! I got a concussion from me being sent outside of Spacetime! Like I didn't hit my head or anything, but uhhh... YEAH!"

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    • Distracted would be the equivalent to confusion in Pokémon, it isn't a concussion Cal

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    • From what I recall, Shadow was never shown fresh out of a mind wipe and there was always some time that passed offscreen for him to know some basic stuff. You don’t see Shadow the second he got his memory wiped and he’s still a badass fighter. There’s always some time that passed.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      fake memories wouldn't work, Shadow could fight even with fake memories inserted by Black Doom and Gerald, especialy Shadow post his own game when he doesn't have any doubt or cares about his past

      Fake memories like, say, making Shadow believe his enemies are his allies?

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    • He was sealed away as he was carried by one of Eggman's robots. That's it

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    • Speaking of BFR, is this Shadow able to come back from being sent to a void?

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    • The real cal howard wrote: From what I recall, Shadow was never shown fresh out of a mind wipe and there was always some time that passed offscreen for him to know some basic stuff. You don’t see Shadow the second he got his memory wiped and he’s still a badass fighter. There’s always some time that passed.

      Team Dark's opening, Shadow imediately after being awakened with no memory fought against Omega, there's no time Skip, he was asleep the entire time

      Exactaly like that Kukui

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    • Unless he pulls a Sonic then maybe

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: Speaking of BFR, is this Shadow able to come back from being sent to a void?

      Yes, he can

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    • Does Heroes take place immediately after SA2? Actual question. Like, does the game’s events happen immediately after Shadow nearly dies in SA2?

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    • No, but Shadow wasn't conscious during that time, he was asleep in a capsule, Heroes is the first time he's awake, Rouge says that he can't renember anything

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    • Follow up question, what happens first canonically, Heroes or StH?

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    • Heroes

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    • Also Distracted only happens if it fails. It won’t fail on Mewtwo. He just gets out.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      ProfessorKukui4Life wrote: Speaking of BFR, is this Shadow able to come back from being sent to a void?

      Yes, he can

      What is this based on?

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    • Do you mean Shadow the Hedgehog? Heroes happens before it because it ties into the plot of Shadow the Hedgehog with Shadow’s memory loess.

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    • Sonic escaping Null Space and Shadow using Chaos Control to teleport out of the Ifrit's dimension

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    • Okay. I was just curious. I had nothing leading to that.

      Anyway, if Shadow was still capable of his combat skills, it just means that losing his memory didn’t get rid of the basics, not that mindwipe would be useless. Because mindwipe is just that. A wipe. Shadow forgot who we was, but not how to fight. Mewtwo’d get rid of everything.

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    • Or that Shadow's combat skills are instinct to him, Shadow couldn't renember anything, Shadow didn't renember a single thing in Heroes, none.

      He forgot everything Cal, Occam's razor, you are over analizantig this, Shadow can simply fight without knowing everything

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    • He knew his name

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    • Not in Heroes opening cutscene, only in his own game which takes place after that, Rouge says he doesn't renember anything.

      Also Mewtwo's mind wipe isn't everything, people still know how to breathe or blink for example

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    • I’m pretty sure breathing and blinking will just come in naturally even when someone is mindwiped of everything.

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    • Theuser789 wrote:

      Also Mewtwo's mind wipe isn't everything, people still know how to breathe or blink for example

      People dont need to know how to blink or breathe, that is an instinct.

      Unless your saying a new born baby has a memory of breathing?

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    • I’m changing to inconclusive as it’s really hard to determine whether Shadow would go for the kill with time stop or if Mewtwo is able to bypass Shadows resistance immediately

      Also Greninja > Mewboi ovo

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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote:

      Also Mewtwo's mind wipe isn't everything, people still know how to breathe or blink for example

      People dont need to know how to blink or breathe, that is an instinct.

      Unless your saying a new born baby has a memory of breathing?

      And Shadow's combat skill is also instinct to him, he only lived in the Ark for a week before being sealed, and he never fought on the Ark, yet he could fight normaly in SA2

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    • My boi you got the pokescaling wrong

      It’s Gardevoir >>>>> everything ovo

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    • Theuser789 wrote: And Shadow's combat skill is also instinct to him, he only lived in the Ark for a week before being sealed, and he never fought on the Ark, yet he could fight normaly in SA2

      And again, combat skill only includes physical moves, like hand to hand combat. 

      Not using specific abilities and techniques. The only exception is Chaos Control, which can easily be chalked up to Shadow simply just figuring it out in time post memory loss.

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    • He'd have figured it out in literal seconds though. He comes out of the pod, immediately gets shot at, dodges for a bit, then does that.

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    • He can use all of his abilities, he uses Chaos Control imediately after being awakened as well, and he didn't learn his Chaos Powers on the Ark, those are also instinct, he didn't learn about them in the Ark, yet he could use them in SA2

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    • Chaos Control =/= all abilities.

      So definite no on that unless you have something more.

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    • Wokistan wrote: He'd have figured it out in literal seconds though. He comes out of the pod, immediately gets shot at, dodges for a bit, then does that.

      Who are you voting?

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    • Most of his abilities derive from the control of chaos stuff in some way, besides the stuff that's just like going fast.

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    • Wokistan wrote:
      Most of his abilities derive from the control of chaos stuff in some way, besides the stuff that's just like going fast.

      Yeah but Shadow pulling off one application of Chaos Control without memories doesnt mean he can do the same with other applications of the power.

      Chaos Control is a package of powers and Shadow only used one form of it post memory loss.

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    • He can use all of his powers without never learning them in SA2, it's never implied in Heroes that Shadow renembered his powersor couldn't use them and Shadow can use them in his own game when he says he could only renember his name and part of a memory of Maria

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    • The real cal howard wrote: My boi you got the pokescaling wrong

      It’s Gardevoir >>>>> everything ovo

      THE HELL YOU SAY TO ME BOI?!!!

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    • Theuser789 wrote:
      He can use all of his powers without never learning them in SA2, it's never implied in Heroes that Shadow renembered his powersor couldn't use them and Shadow can use them in his own game when he says he could only renember his name and part of a memory of Maria

      And it isnt implied that he can use them either. 

      The only feat Shadow has of using a power after memory loss is one form of Chaos Control. So without more evidence, thats the only thing Shadow can go off of without memories.

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    • Oblivion Lightning wrote:

      The real cal howard wrote: My boi you got the pokescaling wrong

      It’s Gardevoir >>>>> everything ovo

      THE HELL YOU SAY TO ME BOI?!!!

      Am I wrong? ovo

      Meowth’s fantasy (Gardevoir Lopunny Glaceon)
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    • ProfessorKukui4Life wrote:

      Theuser789 wrote:
      He can use all of his powers without never learning them in SA2, it's never implied in Heroes that Shadow renembered his powersor couldn't use them and Shadow can use them in his own game when he says he could only renember his name and part of a memory of Maria
      And it isnt implied that he can use them either. 

      The only feat Shadow has of using a power after memory loss is one form of Chaos Control. So without more evidence, thats the only thing Shadow can go off of without memories.

      It is though, he can use them in Westopolis when he only knows his name, also the first part of my comment, Shadow can use them in SA2 despite never learning them, unlike Sonic or Metal or Silver

      And Chaos Control doesn't have forms

      Edit since thread is closed: Death Battle still isn't accurate because speed was equal, speed unequal Shadow blitzes I still don't know why speed is a stat here when it's never used

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    • Wokistan wrote:
      Most of his abilities derive from the control of chaos stuff in some way, besides the stuff that's just like going fast.

      If you read his moves from Sonic Battle, he gets his moves via chaos control. Hell he heals himself with chaos control

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    • So unless that last vote count I saw was incorrect, then grace is up and Mewtwo won

      guess the death battle would be accurate if Shadow didn't go super

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    • Ard then. Closing and adding.

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