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  • DarkDragonMedeus
    DarkDragonMedeus closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    03:50, June 15, 2019

    Because their pages are a mess.

    All of them

    All of this falls under optional equipment

    Thanks to prismatic helms and other equipment, they can all get status immunity, so they gain resistance to the following:

    Poison: Attacks weaken and accuracy decreases. Poison Manipulation

    Sleep: Sleep Manipulation

    Blind: Lowers hit rate of all physical attacks. Statistics Reduction

    Stop: Time Stop

    Slow: Time Manipulation in general with the former one, as the time cap prevents both statuses implying this is time manipulation

    Lock: Unable to use Techniques. Power Nullification

    Chaos: The character attacks an ally or enemy at random. Uh, not sure about this one. We don't have a page for "Confusion", don't we? Worst case scenario we consider it under limited mindhax

    Then they get:

    Statistics Amplification via sunglasses, because being cooler makes you stronger, too. Also via several helms and equipment that can boost your speed, defense, accuracy etc.

    Absorption of elemental attacks thanks to the Mails

    Information Analysis via Slight Scope (reveals enemy HP)

    Berserk Mode via Berserker Ring

    Also:

    Acausality type 1 removal: Do I really need to say more? The game simply doesn't acknowledge the Butterfly effect, and the game constantly tries to find justifications for why certain things changed in the past don't affect the characters, like Lucca still being so scared to lose her mother that she decided to study technology even when you save her, for example. Only possible exception to this may be Magus as Janus wasn't sent to the Middle Ages.

    Resurrection Removal: 0 hp means fainting in the game, not death. We see this several times, like in the Ocean Palace or against Dalton's Golem the first time you fight him. It should be replaced with Healing instead.

    Crono

    Weapon Mastery and Magic for obvious reasons

    Air Manipulation with Air Slash

    Marle

    Specify her Status Effect Inducement as confusion.

    It should be noted that Haste can override Slow's effects

    Weapon Mastery and Magic

    Lucca

    Weapon Mastery and Energy Projection

    Hacking for pretty much the whole future segment.

    Sleep Manipulation for hypnowave

    Frog

    This is where the upgrades are something relevant.

    Weather Manipulation and Electricity Manipulation Manipulation for the cutscene in which he cuts a mountain in half.

    Masamune has Absorption for absorbing Lavos's energy from the Mammon machine, which is what transformed the Ruby Knife into the Masamune in the first place. It's also able to heal frog when he strikes the Mammon Machine, as it'a absorbing its power.

    Statistics Reduction and can bypass Forcefield from his fight against Magus.

    Robo

    Inorganic Physiology for obvious reasons

    Hacking for Geno Dome

    Information Analysis for understanding that the whole "it has all of Earth's DNA" thing against Lavos. Also trying (and failing) to analyze Dream Devourer's power.

    Ayla

    Martial Arts I guess?

    Also remove the part about the critical hits as that's gameplay mechanics

    Magus

    Absorption of Magic

    I don't think there's anything else iirc

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    • Frog via Masamune should have a lot ore stuff due to Cross, but I don’t know Cross.

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    • I disagree on removing Acausality type 1; yes Marle did not have it at the beginning of the game, but she does gain it like everyone else much later on. Otherwise, Lavos would be impossible to defeat. Magus especially has Acausaility and possibly even better than Type 1 as he still appears when you fight Dream Devourer. We usually treat Resurrection in RPGs as Resurrection, but I do notice flaws with it yes. I think we treat it as weak resurrection though where the body needs to be in tact. But that kind of needs its own thread.

      The rest of the upgrades seems legit. But I had plans for even more upgrades in other areas. Frog's cloud and mountain feat were clearly far more than tens of meters and other cast might be able to scale from that. Magus also seems to have gotten more abilities in Radical Dreamers.

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    • Can you post some example of type 1? Maybe they could keep it as their memories remain untouched, but aside from that...

      The Magus that appears for Dream Devourer is from an another timeline.

      Also, this and this.

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    • The real cal howard wrote: Frog via Masamune should have a lot ore stuff due to Cross, but I don’t know Cross.

      Can you please say if you agree with this or no? There aren't even half a dozen supporters of the verse, so everyone's opinion is important here.

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    • Considering Lavos literally bends all time and space, he does appear to be capable of destroying past selves of the characters. A second Magus appearing from another timeline is an indication of type 3 Acausality is what I meant. Memories being untouched is a good example of Type 1.

      Cal might know more regarding Type 1; I think he tried to propose Type 2 or something a while back but only Time Paradox immunity got accepted.

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    • Don’t worry. It’s not like this revision will be ignored for years like the power null revision

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: Considering Lavos literally bends all time and space, he does appear to be capable of destroying past selves of the characters. A second Magus appearing from another timeline is an indication of type 3 Acausality is what I meant. Memories being untouched is a good example of Type 1.

      Cal might know more regarding Type 1; I think he tried to propose Type 2 or something a while back but only Time Paradox immunity got accepted.

      That's only resistance to Space-Time Manipulation, though.

      The problem is that we have an explicit statement of them not having it and two other explicit instances of them being affected by changes in the past. That's the main problem.

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    • Well, on the subject of acausality, by the time the King’s trial rolls along, they remember things before they were changed in the past.

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    • I am neutral on Acausality and Resurrection but I agree with everything else.

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    • This seems good

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    • Uh, all pages are locked for some reason. Can someone add these things or open the pages?

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    • Pretty please? Can someone add the accepted stuff or open the pages?

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    • Please?

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    • Oh yeah, I'm not even sure they need to be locked. I think the reason they were locked is because they used to be Tier 2. But that's not longer considered controversial and I don't think they're controversial anymore at least.

      I have unlocked them though.

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    • Thank you

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    • I finished editing the pages. This can be closed.

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    • I will close this then.

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