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  • Shido Itsuka vs. Baal, The Gate of Hell

    • Speed equalized
    • Baal's Avatar and Volume 20 Shido will be used
    • All other SBA

    Who wins and why?

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    • Not sure of this matchup.

      On Baal's page, he seems to have so many different types of hax compared to Shido, and has many ways to take out Shido (can't name them all since it's too much). He has Regen Advantage (Baal being Low-High and Shido being Low-Mid). Not to mention he's pretty much nigh-omniscient, which is a huge advantage. 

      The only way I think Shido could stand a chance is if he somehow uses Mio's Angel to erase existence, but I'm not sure he uses it first thing in-character tho.

      I'm inclined to give this vote to Baal, but I will be willing to hear other people out. Only then I might change my mind. 

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    • Baal have way too much spells, even capable to replicate most of Shido's magic, is not written directly but it has access to the paths of Destruction, Darkness, Illusion, Time, Chaos and Sin at level 100 (although it can only access to 90 levels due not having enough gnosis as avatar), that means that is have around 135 different spells; so pretty versatile.

      Although not exactly Nigh-Omniscient, he is "an Einstein" in any skill, intellectual, charismatic, creative and athletic alike. Infernal Weapons allows it to bypass ignore any armor, Control of Fate allows it to reroll attacks either its or its opponent (A difference from other fate control abilities, only way to be immune to this is having higher gnosis than the gate of hell).

      So, better gotta wait more input before comenting more about Baal's abilities, don't want to write all in one go if is not necessary.

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    • Well, since no one is giving input un Shido, I guess I will have to do it by myself.

      Shido has sometimes lead with his conceptual sealing, but can also use Sandalphon first.

      He can also seal some of Baal's abilities eith the Lock or maybe use his mindhax.

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    • Baal would at least resistent to that, unless the sealing works as binding in whose case it would be immune; also apply to mind manipulation.

      It also have powers that allows it to destroy or nullify magic, powers and skills; without counting a bunch of chaos and temporal powers.

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    • Antoniofer wrote: Baal would at least resistent to that, unless the sealing works as binding in whose case it would be immune.

      Shido seals in a conceptual level, can Baal really resist that?

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    • If it would has been as easy he would have been sealed long before the war begins; there's few spells that works at that level, and yet it can be resisted. If if going to be sealed with no possible resistance Shido should be at least gnosis 45, as being a human that is not possible, if he is human (even if not, it wouldn't surpass gnosis 40).

      Baal can also reroll resistances, so it has even more possibilities to pass them (although, if its part of a summoning skill it is simple immune). Also, may not be relevant, but Baal is already sealed.

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    • Well, Shido has also used his ice manipulation to freeze or he can use power mimicry to copy Baal's abilities.

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    • In order to do that one would need the same amount of gnosis to copy abilities, so one would need gnosis 40 to copy Baal's abilities, if its a human then it wouldn't be possible. Even if it would be possible to copy them it woudln't be able to perform the magic spells as one may not have enougj intelligence to make the spell.

      Of course, you can still use Ice Manipulation to damage it, although effects beyond simple damage is unlikely to take place.

      If we go with Baal, he can cast Realm of Darkness, that aside from increasing its magic accumulations and teleport it makes it nigh-imperceptible, then cast Ruin, that not simply decrease someone stats, but also the resistance. Finally just need to cast Injure and Shido would lost 80% of his health. All that would take at most 30 s gamewise.

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    • Shido hasn't used Mio's abilities right of the bat, but I think Shido would be smart enough to use those abilities if he gets so damaged, like losing "80% of his health".

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    • That's an arcane level spell, one needs to have INT 15 to cast it (for reference, Einstein have INT 10,:and most wisdom wizards and sorcerers have INT 12). Also, Baal can't lose more tahn 150 HP per turn, is protected by an existential barrier.

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    • Antoniofer wrote: That's an arcane level spell, one needs to have INT 15 to cast it (for reference, Einstein have INT 10,:and most wisdom wizards and sorcerers have INT 12). Also, Baal can't lose more tahn 150 HP per turn, is protected by an existential barrier.

      I think some that thing about "Baal can't lose more than 150 HP" as game mechanics. Also using Mio's abilities aren't a heavy prep method, he just needs to summon the Angel and then think of Baal being erased from existence

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    • Not quite, Existential Barrier is common ability for deities, its like a forcefield made out of reality, you break it and then the user disappear. Perhaps you could after Baal lose some health, but it can also erase from existance.

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    • When you say "the user disappear" you mean Baal or that Shido would get erased from existance if he breaks it?

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    • I'm refering to the user, existential barrier avoid it to be one shotted, only beings of equal of higher gnosis than the user can bypass it.

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    • Well, I'm going to say that Shido has higher AP (I don't really know what does gnosis mean, but well) so he can maybe bypass it.

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    • Gnosis measure how much one can influence or control the Nexus of Souls, can't link it now, but you can find the explaination blog in the verse page.

      AP is not really a problem, due Shido being a human Baal receive a bonus to all actions due Auspice, assuming that Shido have gnosis 15 (otherwise he would be unable to kill the avatar), Baal has a bonus of +50.

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    • I don't know if this affects Shido's gnosis (if it could be say that he has) but he can control all the laws in the world due to Mio's abilities.

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    • If he is human and has experimented some kind of "ascension" he wouldn't surpass gnosis 20, one can even control the laws with spells. Receiving gifts from a deity do not necessary increase the gnosis of someone.

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    • Yeah, but Baal has neither resistance to law hax or EE, so it wouldn't be able to affect it?

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    • There's a great broad of resistances in Anima, you can see it in the blog linked in the verse page. There's nothing that can't be resisted, and if there's something is generally limited by gnosis/natura+ (35 and above of course).

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    • The level of lawhax that is in there it's not in the level of Shido's and what part of it was EE, I made a quick read because my phone is dying.

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    • There's few of EE over there, with the strongest spell being Decreation (erasing, wiping out any memory and action of one). Predestination is also someone that alter manipulate the laws of causality.

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    • Then I don't know what Shido can do here, does he even have a win condition?

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    • Hardly, ammortal have little possibilities agaisnt someone with higher gnosis in Anima, even if its equal or even stronger. Shido can still perform normal damage, but it can't surpass Baal's regen and existential barrier that easy.

      You could say that few Shido's powers can do something, it just as Baal can reroll it have even more possibilities to pass the check; and similar to Shido, it can also perform one shotting powers, one effective tactic is the one mentioned above, and only involve 3 spells out of the dozens of ones it can perform.

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    • Ok then, Shido can give a fight but he will lose.

      Baal: 2 (I guess)

      Shido: 0

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    • Is there something shido can even do to win? This dosen't look too fair

      Also shido technically isn't human. He's like a pseudo Spirit/immortal

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    • Welp, being immortal or being an hybrid do not makes someone a Between World creature; if its a human that hasn't experimented some type of "ascencion" then is considered natural (a "natural human" wouldn't surpass gnosis 20).

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    • A FANDOM user
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