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  • Theglassman12
    Theglassman12 closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    13:29, June 26, 2019

    Sin Devil Trigger Dante

    Power of Hope Kratos

    They have access to all weapons/items from their previous games

    3-A and Speed Equalized

    Dante: 0 ()

    Kratos: 0 ()

    Inconclusive: 16 (Tony di bugalu, Xmark12, ABoogieYesSir, Dienomite22, Dante Demon Killah, Theglassman12, CrimsonStarFallen, Paul Frank, Kepekley23, TISSG7Redgrave, RebubleUselet, DragonEmperor23, Xtasyamphetamine, KnightOfSunlight, DarkGrath, Jimboydejuan12)

    Kratos color by ca5per-d5ezxa3
    DMC5 Dante Render
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    • Dante ain't doing jack to Kratos because of his infinite Resurrection.

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    • Kratos petrifies gg

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    • Dante has sealing and he already resists petrification, the kind that Krato's has

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    • I dont see resistance to petrification

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    • It's from the Beastheads which transforms and morph the body into a stone necklace of the Beastheads, it's probably the Reality Warping part of resistance.Basically petricfication through Reality Warping, unless petrification/transmutation resistence hasn't been added yet.

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    • Switch it to GoW3 and it becomes more interesting.

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    • Well, this is Composite Dante so he have Yamato, which can Resurrect him aswell

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    • If it's GoW3, I see it as an inconclusive match.

      It all depends on who pulls the killing hax first, which is hard to answer.

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    • If it's anything besides end of GOW3/power of Hope Kratos then it's a stomp for Dante for durability bypass and regen negation.What does Kratos usually start with and what can he use against Dante to hurt or prevent him from doing something?

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    • @Kepe there’s also the whole hax resistance that might determine who has the edge here

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    • Its power of hope with all powers and abilties from previous games according to op

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    • @Paul Frank

      Only weapons and items from previous games, not powers or abilities

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      @Paul Frank

      Only weapons and items from previous games, not powers or abilities

      Well most of their abilities come from using weapons/items rather than themself.

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    • @Stefano4444

      True but Kratos wouldn't have his god powers here 

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    • Do you have scans that they can petrify?

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    • The Beastheads? I can get make them give me a sec.

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    • So Kratos rez until hax GG or until Dante notices something is not right and seals him.

      Inconclusive.

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    • 1st link which explains that Ducas comepletely made up of stone: http://oi63.tinypic.com/2hqx8i8.jpg

      2nd link explains that the Beastheads inside Ducas's body are transforming Ducas into the Beastheads meaning that the Beastheads caused the Petrification or transmutation: http://oi65.tinypic.com/243qpua.jpg

      Chen puts the Beastheads inside Dante's body but due to Dante being a demon he resists all of the Beastheads Reality Warping,Petrification(or transmutation), Soul absorption and other it's other abilities.

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    • Don't the gorgons resist petrification too

      Kratos can still petrify them

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    • Well according to the exact words of the novel demons are immune to the effects of the Beastheads which would mean Petrification/transmutation, though it does sound like Petrification through Reality Warping due to Ducas being alive but made up entirely of stone, so Idk.

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    • so he first turned into stone, and then got transmutated?

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    • Kinda both, the stone is apart of the transmutation.Whenever the Beastheads enters the body wether it be by (injection or consumption) it transforms the body into the Beastheads which would be transmutation with some level of Reality Warping but it goes through stages of sort which would be:

      "Petrification" or the part where the body is turned to stone

      Comeplete body transformation and size altering (changes the "stone" person's stone body into a 3 headed dog and reduces the size of it to fit a necklace)

      Soul absorption (this ones placement is kind of a guess but it's only shown/spoken about once the user fully becomes the Beasthead)

      Edit:Didn't know having resistance to Transmutation means you negate Petrification, so it's possible that Dante might negate Petrification by being resistant(or immune) to Transmutation

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    • Vergil told Dante to get "strong" by resting, that proves that Dante cannot regen from a fight between someone as powerful as he is nor fight at the same pace as before. Kratos, on the other hand, could restore his full potential mid fight when fighting someone as powerful as him. Kratos has a better track record in terms of durability/endurance. Kratos fought Zeus more than once in a short period of time without being tired, when Dante fought the first foe who was really close to his own level (Urizen) he basically had no gas left to fight against Vergil.

      Kratos is truly immortal, and will walk the Earth forever no matter what.

      I don't think that Dante could one shot Kratos, nor Kratos one shot Dante. But Kratos has better feats and better gear for this battle. Kratos basically have the same abilities to a greater extent, like the Amulet of Uroborus being far superior to Quicksilver. 

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    • Dante resist time manipulation, so the Amulet won’t work on him

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Dante resist time manipulation, so the Amulet won’t work on him

      And neither would Quicksilver work on Kratos. That's basically what I was trying to say, Kratos has the same abilities to a greater extent. While Dante has two Royal Guards, Kratos also have two items/weapons that can counter and reflect attacks. He can also create a clone of himself using the Stone of Orkus just like Dante's Doppelganger.

      I'll vote for Kratos because of his durability/endurance feats being far superior to Dante's.

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    • @XVulkano

      Dante didn't rest in his time between fight meeting Vergil and fighting him, he climb for around 40 minutes while continuely fighting demons and Dante has multiple showings proving his regen isn't taxed by his stamina and even if you consider that to be true then you would have to accept that a tired and worn out DMC3 Dante and Vergil can easily survive and instantly regen from bisections.Urizen wasn't on Dante's level, according to the devs during GDC Dante obliterates Urizen's first and second form.Dante's time manipulation will work on Kratos, he can slow down time on beings who are immune to time stop and time slow like Vergil and Urizen.

      Dante's only real issue with Kratos is his resurrection which he can deal with by Sealing.

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    • And Krato's fleece and shield are not at all comparable or even come close to Royal Guard when it comes to countering and reflecting attacks.Also, Kratos usage of Oath Stone of Orkus in battle is only for 1 to 2 second attacks from his doppelganger unlike Dante which is essentially another Dante that fights along side him.

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    • Vergil clearly says "Heal your wounds, Dante. Get strong", after he even says "After that, we'll settle the matter".

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jBnEKfBW7M - Dante and Vergil's first clash. Put on the 11:39 mark and see the little sword pushing fight.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF16doPEwXE - Dante and Vergil's last clash. Put on the 1:10 mark and see the little sword pushing fight.

      You can clearly tell the difference between these two. Dante can be wounded and he'll need time to recover from it.

      Like I said (and you know), Dante never really face enemies as powerful as himself, it's like saying that Goku wouldn't recover from a fight against Vegeta just because some Saibamen got on his way. Those demons Dante fought while climbing weren't nearly as powerful to make him tire. We saw Dante tired in different moments, just watch some scenes of Vergil vs Dante in hell.

      "That proves that Dante cannot regen from a fight between someone as powerful as he is nor fight at the same pace as before." I meant Kratos, but ok.

      If the devs said that, then Kratos might stomp even harder than before, because Dante is clearly wounded and tired from the fight against Urizen.

      Nope, it would not. The Amulet of Uroborus has the power to manipulate time in numerous ways, from decaying or rebuilding different structures, to even slowing down time. The Amulet of Fates grants Kratos the ability to slow down time around his vicinity. Kratos has two ways to also slow down time. Vergil is not Kratos, the GoW universe is not the DMC universe, let's take this into account.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      And Krato's fleece and shield are not at all comparable or even come close to Royal Guard when it comes to countering and reflecting attacks.Also, Kratos usage of Oath Stone of Orkus in battle is only for 1 to 2 second attacks from his doppelganger unlike Dante which is essentially another Dante that fights along side him.

      The Golden Fleece can be used to counter and reflect Zeus' attacks on GoW 3. I never actually played Ascension but I'll take your statement as true (that the Oath Stone only lasts 1 - 2 seconds).

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    • @XVulkano

      I already know what Vergil said but it isn't consistant with the rest of the series nor does it make sense within DMC5 with WoG stating Dante having no trouble defeating Urizen 1 and 2 and everything in between and Dante having been shown previously in the series to easily regenerate despite being tired and facing opponents equal or superior to him.DMC5 is an outlier here.

      I wasn't applying DMC universe logic to GoW universe or Kratos.Dante can slow down time for Vergil and Urizen, one of which was given "immunity" to time stop and both were shown and stated to be comepletely unaffected by regular time slow in game, meaning Dante being able to slow time for both of them shows the potency of his time manipulation

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    • XVulkano wrote:

      The Golden Fleece can be used to counter and reflect Zeus' attacks on GoW 3. I never actually played Ascension but I'll take your statement as true (that the Oath Stone only lasts 1 - 2 seconds).

      Royal Guard is used to counter/block/deflect/reflect everything under the Sun including attacks from being comparable or superior to Dante, even auras,durablity negating attacks, non-physical/intangible attacks/vibrations and much more.

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    • When Dante fought Vergil in their final battle in DMC3, they were still healing their wounds mid-battle even when they had low stamina. They were about equal in power at that point.

      Frankly the statement by Vergil in DMC5 contradicts what was shown before.

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    • DMC in general never had a consistent power level, I know that, but I'll take the game into account, I would never take the dev statement seriously when the game itself contradicts it. IIRC Dante never fought someone as powerful as himself besides his brother, never really got gravely injured and recovered from it with ease. Argosax was defeated by Dante's base form, and he's basically equal to Mundus.

      I understand that you weren't, but we can't measure how strong Kratos' time stop would be. Quicksilver is very powerful, I just don't think it's enough to affect Kratos since he also have two artifacts that does the same thing, and resistance to time stop. I think that the Time Manipulation thing is just inconclusive.

      Zeus is at least more powerful than the whole DMC universe with scalling alone. Reflecting Zeus' attacks is a more impressive feat.

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    • Xmark12 wrote:
      When Dante fought Vergil in their final battle in DMC3, they were still healing their wounds mid-battle even when they had low stamina. They were about equal in power at that point.

      Frankly the statement by Vergil in DMC5 contradicts what was shown before.

      We're talking about the franchise that did this:

      DMC 2 base form Dante killed Argosax

      Sparda needed help to seal Argosax away 

      If Sparda failed to kill Argosax and base form Dante did, this could only mean that DMC 2 base form Dante > Sparda

      But only when Dante achieved his Sin Devil Trigger it is stated that he might have surpassed Sparda

      Also, Dante wasn't able to recover from his first fight against Urizen, he literally passed out for a month or so. Itsuno, the creator, still says that Mundus is still the most powerful being in the DMC universe, the dude didn't even consider Dante beating Alternate Mundus who was stronger than his normal self. And then he proceeds to say that Argosax and Mundus are equal in the DMC Story video by saying "not even a Demon King with power equal to that of Mundus could match Dante anymore". You got my point.

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    • DMC5 itself doesn't contradict the WoG, we see SDT Dante destroy Urizen 1 and Base Dante fight Urizen 2 according to  the cutscenes show Dante not at all tired or damage after fighting Urizen 2 (he leaves with the same level of "damage" and dirt covering him as he entered), even without the WoG we can determine either Vergil's words don't add up or the entire thing was an outlier to push out another mission to fight V's summons.

      Quicksilver isn't what I'm talking about here, DMC5 SDT has time slow and unless I see Kratos resists the level of time slow that Dante can produce I can't see how he resist it.

      I really doubt it and it depends on how big the scaling chain is.

      The Sparda who needed help sealing Argosax was a Sparda with only 1/4 of his power.Dante with only the sword of Sparda stomped Mundus. 

      The scaling chain is something like this  (stolen from DMUA and slightly altered) DMC 5 Dante at the end=Vergil>>>>>>Urizen Pos-Fruit>>>>>>>>>>Urizen Pre-Fruit>>>>>>>>>DMC 5 Dante at start=>DMC 4 Dante>>>DMC 2 Dante>Chen with Absorbed Beastheads>DMC2 Volume 2 Dante>>>>Void Mundus>>>Mundus=Argosax=Qliphoth, Despair Embodied>>>Argosax the Chaos>Pluto>>baseline 3A

      Also, Dante can Royal Guard against characters with massively superior AP against him

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    • Dante can also slow down time with Chrono Heart

      And the Quick Heart amps his speed by Ten times, it is listed in his profile

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    • There's a moment in the Vergil vs Dante fight where Dante and Vergil says something along the lines of "time to end this" and they proceed to tap into Devil Trigger, like that was the moment where they got serious. But before that, Vergil used his DT and Dante too (depending of the player's choice) mid fight, that doesn't count towards the narrative? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or ironic, it's a real doubt of my own.

      That's the main issue here with the Time Manupulation thing: we don't know how powerful Kratos' resistance is nor how powerful are his artifacts. I'm not really the specialist here (as you already noted).

      Sparda's story lacks information. Sparda sealed himself. How did he escape? Why did he escape his own sealing?

      Sparda splited his power into three pieces, and he used those artifacts, the Force Edge, Rebellion and  Yamato, Sparda was the original owner and actually used all of them. It brings me to the next point: why would Sparda lose power if he had those artifacts? Dante used the Sparda as his source of power to defeat Mundus, Sparda used Yamato as his personal sword, we don't know what he did with Rebellion, but still.

      The problem with the Argosax sealing thing: It is explicitly said that Sparda needed help to seal Argosax. If Sparda only had 1/4 of his power and couldn't perform the seal alone, how could he protect all of them from Argosax while performing the seal if Argosax is equal to Mundus and the author states that Mundus is the most powerful being? All of this while they're all probably in hell.

      Again, Dante never fought someone as powerful as himself besides his brother, never really got gravely injured and recovered from it with ease. He was tired after fighting a lower being.

      The most impressive DMC universe feat is the shaking the universe thing Dante once did.

      Zeus is stronger than the guy that can lift the whole universe. Stronger than the guy who can damage the World Pillar. Stronger than the being that created the universe. Hyperion's spear could bear the weight of the Cosmos and still he's basically nothing compared to Zeus, there's a lot more. That's why I see reflecting Zeus' attacks as more impressive.

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    • Thing is, the universe level feats are all baseline, however because there's a huge scaling line (DMC 5 Dante at the end=Vergil>>>>>>Urizen Pos-Fruit>>>>>>>>>>Urizen Pre-Fruit>>>>>>>>>DMC 5 Dante at start=>DMC 4 Dante>>>DMC 2 Dante>Chen with Absorbed Beastheads>DMC2 Volume 2 Dante>>>>Void Mundus>>>Mundus=Argosax=Qliphoth, Despair Embodied>>>Argosax the Chaos>Pluto>>baseline 3A), Dante is deceptively much more powerful than he looks and shows.

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    • The "time to end this" thing was in the cutscene after the fight, when Vergil inevitable goes DT Dante is says "it's just about time to settle this" and Vergil replies "that's right, c'mon" and then he DT's.I'm not saying this particular instance doesn't count to the narrative but it perfectly fits with Dante's regen not being affected by stamina.

      That's why we go off of what is shown, if Kratos time manipulation resists hasn't been shown to resist the level of time manipulation that Dante has then it's fair to assume it will work on him.We can't ignore the possibility of Dante's time manipulation working on Kratos just because we don't know the level of time manipulation he can resist.

      "How did he escape?" He didn't seal himself, he stayed in the Human World sealing away various portals.

      "How did he escape his own sealing?" He didn't seal himself, only his power inside the Force Edge

      "why would Sparda lose power if he had those artifacts?" once again his main power source Sparda was used to seal the Demon World.

      "If Sparda only had 1/4 of his power and couldn't perform the seal alone, how could he protect all of them from Argosax while performing the seal if Argosax is equal to Mundus and the author states that Mundus is the most powerful being? All of this while they're all probably in hell." Bolded was never stated and according to DMC twitter chair Urizen was stronger than Mundus.Alternate universe Mundus from the DMC2 novel was stronger than Mundus and Argosax which base DMC2 Dante annihilates, but to answer your question and correct your points, Sparda sealing Argosax happened on Dumary Island and you're assuming Sparda had to protect them during the sealing process.No bout was mentioned and if there were one they likely weren't involved but too much interpretation and headcanon is involved to when all we know is that Sparda couldn't seal Argosax by himself so I would just leave it at that.

      Correction, Dante has fought people comeparable and superior to him before and regenerated just as easily, Chen from the novels is one example who was stated to be superior to Dante and Dante and Vergil in the middle of DMC3 being stated and shown to be tired in worned out also proves the DMC5 incident to be an outlier or interpreted wrongly.

      No universe shaking feat ever happened, here's a blog showing feats which are all at the very least 2x above baseline 3A.

      Not that that matters much here based off what I said.

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    • @Xmark12

      Most universe level feats in DMC are 2x above baseline, even Pluto who would be the weakest God tier in the scaling is 2x above baseline 3A.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote: @Xmark12

      Most universe level feats in DMC are 2x above baseline, even Pluto who would be the weakest God tier in the scaling is 2x above baseline 3A.

      Not only 2x baseline, but potentially far higher given that the demon world is far larger than the human world.

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    • Alright, after quite a bit of thought, I think I've come to my own conclusion on this match. Feel free to debate any of my points here.

      Currently, a big part of Dante's AP has to do with how large the demon world is, which is currently an unknown variable. When you mix that with potential multiples in strength that his later form reaches, and the fact that all we really know about the size of the demon world is that it is astronomically big in comparison to the human world, Dante's AP/Durability could feasibly either stomp Kratos, or Kratos' AP/Durability could stomp Dante's based on a currently unknown factor. For the sake of keeping things simple, I'll assume that they are relatively similar in AP/Durability (since goddammit, this is a cool match, we all think it's a cool match, don't let it be a stomp. XD)

      Without a major AP advantage either way though, what do we base this off of? Well, the offense heart from DMC2 could bump up Dante's AP quite a bit, but probably not by any match-deciding amount. It seems that the main thing to base this match off of is hax. Dante has things like Durability Negation in SDT, and if we're giving Dante all of his weapons/abilities from previous games (as the OP stated) that also means he gets an even better version of Durability Negation through the Yamato. He also has attack reflection with Royal Guard. This gives him a massive advantage in speed equalised matches, because he's been shown to nearly perfectly nullify damage and reflect it against opponents of similar speeds. On top of all that, in DMC5 he does not demonstrate the same level of "IDGAF" against similar opponents. He better understands when an opponent is a potential threat and how to react.

      Kratos does also have good hax here and there, such as being able to negate durability against demons (which, well... Dante is half demon, so I think we can assume that applies). However, I've seen it mentioned on many previous matches that Kratos, despite having good hax, often does not use them in-character and will often opt to rely on pure strength. I cannot confirm for sure if this is true, but I've both seen it mentioned multiple times and my own experiences with GoW (despite not being quite as intensive as with DMC) seem to validate this. Feel free to correct me though.

      Overall, they both have feasible ways to one-shot eachother with hax. There are 3 ways this match could logically go.

      1: Kratos uses hax and easily beats Dante

      2: Dante uses hax and easily beats Kratos

      3: Neither of them use their one-shot hax before the match is eventually concluded

      In the first two examples, it's obvious who wins. But for the third one, I'd probably consider it a high-difficulty win for Dante, mainly due to Kratos not having any notable ways to overcome Dante's attack reflection with Royal Guard. 

      So not only does Dante likely win in 2 of the 3 plausible situations, but if the previous comments about Kratos not relying on hax are correct, in comparison with Dante who is far more likely to use hax in his DMC5 depiction than before, that means Dante is probably more likely to use his hax first than Kratos is (even if I was mistaken about Kratos not relying on hax, I'm doubtful from my experiences that he relys on them as much as Dante does).

      Overall, going to give this one to Dante. Either Dante uses hax and one-shot's Kratos, low difficulty, or neither of them end up relying on hax at any point in the battle in which case I'd consider it a high difficulty win for Dante. Kratos using one-shot hax is still plausible, mind you, but I'd consider it less likely than the other two situations.

      Consider this 1+ vote for Dante.

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    • Kratos also has good and heavily in-character Attack Reflection that can reflect even Power Nulling and Power Absorption projectiles via the Golden Fleece.

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    • Awesome post Dark Grath ;)

      I'll go with Dante FRA for now, high-difficulty

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    • @Kepe does Kratos have a scaling chain like Dante? I feel like that’s the major turning point here given how Dante can seal weaker foes

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    • Zeus, who GoW3 Kratos is equal to, is laughably superior to the rest of the verse, to the point of being quite likely capable of one-shotting everyone else together via feats, including Poseidon and Hades, who themselves are already much superior to Ares, who is superior to Helios, who is superior to the Primordials.

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    • Could we see the scaling chain? If it is higher than Dante's scaling chain then we should switch it to GoW 3 Kratos since sealing's out of the option at that point.

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    • Well.

      Off of the top of my head, assuming you're talking about GoW3

      GoW3 Kratos <=> Zeus >>>> Atlas > Poseidon/Hades individually = Cronos >>> Ares >> Helios >> Primordials (bottom of the scaling).

      If Power of Hope:

      Power of Hope >>>>>> (can no-sell) Fear Zeus >>>> copy and paste the above chain here

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    • are the Primordials baseline?

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      Could we see the scaling chain? If it is higher than Dante's scaling chain then we should switch it to GoW 3 Kratos since sealing's out of the option at that point.

      I don't think sealing is out of the question depending on whoever has the bigger scaling chain or is stronger.DMC1 Dante using Trish's energy as a main source was able to seal Mundus who was 3A showing being superior doesn't matter.

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    • I don't think either Mundus or Dante on that scene were 3-A after their intense battle. Mundus couldn't even drag himself off the floor, Dante needed to use Trish's energy, and he also remarked that they would both die on Mallet Island's explosion.

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    • I don't believe a fully unsealed Mundus could be reduced to island level just by getting demonlished by Sparda form Dante either way Mundus in that instance would still be far stronger than Dante if his defeat can cause an Island to explode and Dante,who would be City level at max here, was able to seal Mundus.

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    • Dante, the Deadly Demon Hunter Deep in Debt FRA, very high-diff.

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    • Dienomite22 wrote:
      I don't believe a fully unsealed Mundus could be reduced to island level just by getting demonlished by Sparda form Dante either way Mundus in that instance would still be far stronger than Dante if his defeat can cause an Island to explode and Dante,who would be City level at max here, was able to seal Mundus.

      Or he could be higher than 7-B if we get someone to calc the Mallet Island explosion considering it happened thanks to a severely weakened mundus

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    • @Theglassman12 

      Sure Dante could be stronger than 7-B after he uses Sparda's power to fight Mundus but in this particular instance he was sapped of his power and used Trish's, who is 7-B, energy to seal Mundus who would be 6-C or high 7-A or whatever tier higher.That's still sealing someone who is largely superior him.

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    • I have to agree with Dienomite. It’s quite unlikely that Mundus would have been killed by Mallet Island collapsing, and the only real indicator of this we have is Dante saying that this place will be “your burial ground”. Which... I mean, let’s be honest. Dante literally met Mundus, like, at most a couple hours ago. He wouldn’t know this. His word is not necessarily reliable here.

      And even if he could die from Mallet Island collapsing, a 3-A dying from around a 7-B feat just because they were tired is undoubtedly PIS. When you combine this with the vagueness of how far Mundus is into 3-A, this means he quite possibly could still be 3-A and at worst he’d be slightly below 3-A. Mundus ending up as a 7-B is pure PIS, plain and simple.

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    • Mundus couldn't even drag himself off the ground. The only attack he uses is a weak laser that visibly can't even finish off a decidedly-absolutely-non-3-A Base Dante who was weakened in and out of himself, needing to use Trish's freaking energy to seal Mundus.

      "PIS" isn't a card to be pulled out on everything that is in discordance to one's personal point of view. It is only PIS if it actually contradicts something set in stone. Endgame Mundus was dying, could hardly even move, his only attack couldn't kill a decided non 3-A, and he thrown backwards and harmed (seeing as he screamed upon contact) by a decidedly-non-3-A attack powered from Trish's energy. Literally everything screams he wasn't 3-A on that weakened, dying, barely functioning form. You literally see most of his body has been disintegrated by the previous fight.

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    • Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling.The laser is easy to dodge and hugely telegraphed by Mundus so it's not hard to imagine that in canon Dante simply dodged it and they can't eactly give Mundus a 1-shot laser attack without it feeling cheap just to show the difference in power, taking into account Dante being stated to be weaker and Mundus confidence in defeating Dante and Dante be absolutely powerless against even this "weakened" Mundus, I find it hard to believe Mundus wasn't still 3-A and if he wasn't then at the lowest he would be island level which still would make Dante sealing work on higher level beings compared to himself.

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    • Kepekley23 wrote:

      "PIS" isn't a card to be pulled out on everything that is in discordance to one's personal point of view. It is only PIS if it actually contradicts something set in stone. Endgame Mundus was dying, could hardly even move, his only attack couldn't kill a decided non 3-A, and he thrown backwards and harmed (seeing as he screamed upon contact) by a decidedly-non-3-A attack powered from Trish's energy. Literally everything screams he wasn't 3-A on that weakened, dying, barely functioning form. You literally see most of his body has been disintegrated by the previous fight.

      Mundus only "screams" after Dante lands the sealing shot, Dante shooting Mundus while powered by Trish's energy didn't phase him at all until Dante uses sealing.

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    • Cool fight.

      Both are basically equal in AP and both have a lot of counters against each other.

      I'll wait until better arguments come.

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    • >Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling

      No, Mundus's lower half was literally disintegrated from his earlier fight. That's why he can't even drag himself off the floor.

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    • And, for me, inconclusive.

      Soul Ripping in God of War is a matter of strength, and Kratos has the edge on that regard. He is also passively absorbing Dante's power, speed and lifeforce in general with every hit he lands with the Blades of Exile, so that already burdens Dante quite a lot (and Dante is specially weak against life-absorbing attacks, as seen when he held that orb which was sucking his lifeforce. Nearly died from that). Anything projectile-based or even long-distance melee attacks are hard-countered by Golden Fleece.

      Dante can seal but Kratos quite easily has the hax required to do Dante in before that happens.

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    • Kepekley23 wrote:
      >Mundus couldn't exactly get up in that room, he's way larger than it in height so I can see why he is crawling

      No, Mundus's lower half was literally disintegrated from his earlier fight. That's why he can't even drag himself off the floor.

      I know, but his top half by itself is still larger than than the room, you can see that in-game he opens the portal to the room,when he crawls, and by his wings.You can even compare his top half in the marble room and space and see that his top half is larger than the room by itself.

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    • Incon fra

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    • I mean, isn't DMC1 Dante 7-B? That's the guy who sealed Mundus as he didn't have Daddy's sword.

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote: I mean, isn't DMC1 Dante 7-B? That's the guy who sealed Mundus as he didn't have Daddy's sword.

      Did... did you have to call it “Daddy’s Sword”?

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    • I'm still comfortable with siding with Dante. The Soul Ripping stuff for Kratos doesn't seem in character (it possibly wouldn't even work) and the Blade of Exiles power and life absorption isn't anything new to Dante with the only thing being possibly hard to deal with is speed absorption but that can be dealt with via Quick Heart or Time Manipulation.Not including RG,Instinctive Reactions, DSD SS, Yamato, items, the devil triggers and other stuff that can be used for to help Dante.Dante sealing is more likely to happen than Kratos resorting to hax so my vote is with Dante.

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    • Hmm

      Changed my mind, Incon FRA

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    • @Kepe tbf, Royalguard also hard counters close quarters attacks and projectiles as much as the Fleece.

      As for the match, Inconclusive for the reasons stated above.

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    • DarkGrath wrote:

      Tony di bugalu wrote: I mean, isn't DMC1 Dante 7-B? That's the guy who sealed Mundus as he didn't have Daddy's sword.

      Did... did you have to call it “Daddy’s Sword”?

      Yes!

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    • Gotta go with Inconclusive FRA actually

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    • Stalemate FRA

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    • Oh well, inconclusive is also possible so whatever.Inconclusive FRA

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    • Yeah, sounds pretty inconclusive.

      Both basically have the same stuff and both basically have the means to one shot the other at any time. That, or both counter each other's moves.

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    • Grace is up.

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    • time to add incon FRA

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    • Beating a dead horse, but I'll vote Inconclusive FRA as well.

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    • Wow this ended pretty well for a classic rivalry

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    • incon fra

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    • Also incon fra, I read the whole thread btw

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    • RebubleUselet wrote: Beating a dead horse, but I'll vote Inconclusive FRA as well.

      Beating a dead weight u mean

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    • holy fuck shit im voted Inconclusive Fra.

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    • Well, goddamn. Things reaaallly changed on here while I was busy. Well, honestly, I still personally think Dante has a verrrry slight advantage (like, across 100 simulations of the match, I think he’d win... 60 of them?) but under the new evidence I would say it’s not enough of a difference to keep my vote for him. Changing to incon, as little difference as that means now. XD

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    • Yeah I'm gonna change to incon.

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    • That's 7 votes for incon?

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    • We have like 15 votes for Incon. And the grace period is well beyond over, so might as well add this matchup

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    • Alrighty.

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    • Wow... this went surprisingly smoothly for a matchup that’s been infamous for years. I’m impressed. :)

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    • Sometimes, things go better than expected.

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    • >now we just need to know who was the better father....uncle dante or BOIIII kratos owo

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    • Well darn now we know that speed equalized woud be a stalemate and unequal would be a speedstomp.

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    • It seems it was added to Dante's Profile but not Kratos'. Any reason why?

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    • Ask a contend mod or admin to unlock his profile

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    • Dante kills Kratos with ease. The proof is that you have to equalize speed just to even make this a debate unless dante would utterly stomp kratos but even if dante was as slow as him he would still beat Kratos fairly easily.

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    • Holy necro.

      This has already been added and it was an inconclusive match. No decided winner.

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