This site is an indexing site. We should be as conservative as possible with the things that we omit from being eligible for a profile, rather than make the habit of refusing profiles. To me, it doesn’t really matter if there’s 50 of the same profile because it’s as simple as copying and pasting, but redundancy and all that— yeah yeah.
So, instead, let’s try any other alternative to full profiles.
We don't need 50 Geralts if the majority of them are simply non-canon crossovers or guest appearances. If they are all canonical appearances, then fine. If not, then they don't need a file. Being an indexing site is not an excuse.
Also, and I need you to understand this clearly please.
You are projecting hard.
“People want this kind of information.” No... you want the type of information. No one wants every single non canon detail, outlier, and hyperbole listed. We don’t need to start babysitting people. Being an indexing site is not a good excuse..at all.
Sera EX wrote:
Being an indexing site is not a good excuse..at all.
Thank you. Finally someone said it.
Also, Kaguya? Are you kidding me? The final villain in Naruto, one of the most popular anime and manga series in the world? That’s like saying no one will know anything about Budokai 3 Frieza despite the fact that he’s arguably the most popular villain in all of anime
Tier: 6-B, possibly High 6-A | At least 6-B, possibly High 6-A | High 6-A | At least High 6-A | At least High 6-A
Name: Noctis Lucis Caelum CXIV, "Noct", "King of Light", "The True King"
Origin: Final Fantasy XV
Age: 20 | 30
Classification: Human, King (Former Prince) of Lucis, King of Light
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Stealth Mastery, Magic, Power Bestowal (Can grant others the ability to summon and wield any of the weapons in his arsenal), Flight, Intangibility, Duplication, Teleportation, Telekinesis, Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Healing, Regeneration (Mid-Low), Statistics Amplification (All of his weapons boost at least one of his parameters, like his resistance towards elemental magic), Statistics Reduction (Some of his weapons reduce the target's strength, durability, etc.), Sound Manipulation (Can emit powerful sound waves with the Noiseblaster), Gravity Manipulation (Able to create a gravitational sphere that pulls enemies in), Precognition (Able to see the deaths of others), Holy Manipulation, Energy Blasts, Poison Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Time Stop (Can imbue his weapons with the Stop spell), Spatial Manipulation and BFR (Can rip a hole in the universe and banish enemies to the void with Alterna), Summoning (Can summon various weapons in battle, as well as the Astrals to aid him in combat), Absorption (Can absorb elemental energies and the life force of his enemies), Death Manipulation, Barrier Creation (Should be capable of erecting "The Wall" like all Kings before him. Regular Kingsglaive members as well as Regis were all capable of creating spherical barriers around themselves, and Noctis should be capable of the same), Resistance towards Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Petrification, Transmutation, Electricity Manipulation, and Darkness Manipulation
Attack Potency: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Matched and parried blows from Titan, who caught a meteor and should not be significantly weaker than Ifrit) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Capable of significantly damaging Leviathan) | Multi-Continent level (Fought against Ifrit, whose flames can turn the world to ashes) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level (His power vastly exceeds that of the Astrals, including Shiva, who could subdue Ardyn Izunia with ease and killed Ifrit with her Diamond Dust attack)
Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Fought and can dodge attacks from the Coeruls and Thunderocs, both of which use natural lightning to attack, comparable to Leviathan and Marilith, both of whom can react to the Royal Arms' telekinetic attacks)
Lifting Strength: Class T (Matched and physically overpowered Titan)
Striking Strength: Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | At least Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | Multi-Continent Class (Broke off Ifrit's horn) | At least Multi-Continent Class | At least Multi-Continent Class
Durability: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Tanked several attacks from Titan, as well as an attack from an enraged Leviathan) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level | Multi-Continent level (Took attacks from Ifrit and withstood being struck by Shiva's Diamond Dust) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level
Stamina: Extremely high (Capable of fighting for several days straight without rest or sustenance)
Range: Extended melee range with various weapons, hundreds of meters with magic and firearms, several kilometers with warping and Armiger Arsenal | Planetary as the King of Light (Eliminated the Starscourge across the entire world of Eos)
Engine Blade: Noctis' preferred one-handed weapon, it was presented to him on his sixteenth birthday, absorbing the elemental powers of those it defeats. Noctis later upgrades it with the latest in Insomnian technology to create the Ultima Blade, an immensely more powerful weapon that also increases Noctis' health and mana reserves.
Ring of the Lucii: A treasured item passed down by all of the kings of Lucis to their successors, it binds their souls together and allows them to draw on the power of Eos' Crystal. Upon activation, it grants Noctis incredible magical power and access to the whole of the Armiger Arsenal, but this can be incredibly painful and leaves extensive scarring after use, so it is not something he can use lightly until he becomes the King of Light.
Royal Arms: The thirteen ancestral weapons passed down by the greatest kings of the Lucii, Noctis gains access to them while utilizing the powers of the Ring of the Lucii.
Intelligence: Noctis is an expert combatant, wielding a wide variety of different weapons with expert precision, shifting between them on a whim when the situation calls for it. In addition, he holds perfect synergy with his three companions, performing various combination attacks with them by communicating with naught but a few words. He is also a skilled diplomat, convincing the First Secretary of Altissia to lend him aid in dealing with Leviathan while also minimizing casualties. By the time of his final battle with Ardyn, Noctis managed to defeat his ancestor with the full might of the kings of Lucis despite Ardyn's own access to the Ring of the Lucii's abilities and thousands of years of experience. Lastly, Noctis is also proficient in the art of stealth, being able to sneak around heavily-guarded Imperial bases, and warp-kill targets while remaining undetected.
Weaknesses: Cannot use the Ring of the Lucii's abilities on a whim, as using it severely damages his body and drains his life-force, the Star of the Rogue can be used up-close, but doing so damages Noctis, some of his weapons also decrease his resistance (Example: Katana of the Warrior decreases his resistance to darkness), must be in perilous situations to summon the Astrals
(After all of the notable attacks and all that other stuff, at the VERY BOTTOM, even under the Keys)
Non-Canon/Crossover: Tekken 7; Martial Arts, Tier 9-B to 7-B durability/AP/Striking. FFXIV; Wind Manipulation, Martial Arts. Tier whatever you get the point.
"This site is an indexing site. We should be as conservative as possible with the things that we omit from being eligible for a profile, rather than make the habit of refusing profiles."
The issue with this assertion is that you can make the argument for other files like a super wanky Chuck Norris file or that stupid Barney file that was super controversial. Not everything needs a file and as shown previously, certain files are controversial. We are an indexing site yes. But not everything needs to be indexed. Non-Canon files like 2B from Soul Calibur or Hyde from BBTAG are not in anyway, shape or form similar to Akuma from Tekken or Geralt from Soul Calibur. We can't allow every little thing on the site.
As said in the rules, just because this is a profile mainly for joke profiles, does not mean all profiles or characters have to be jokes/nonsensical. Adding serious stats to YouTube personalities (AVGN, JonTron, etc.), popular online characters, or obscure non canon characters (such as from the Dragon Ball games) are allowed as well. Most characters that otherwise wouldn't be allowed on the two sites listed above are welcomed
Maybe we can make a category for non-canon/non-notable profiles to be kept in sandboxes/user blogs and stuff like that? Not necessarily joke profiles but stuff that wouldn't really fly here (like composite characters who don't need compositing or crossover characters who aren't notable enough).
I dunno, I think it's the best solution of the problem without outright saying no (and it can be pretty fun)
Characters that appear in crossovers, even with a small difference like tiering, or a new ability, should have information on them documented for the public to consume, so people don’t have to do their own research to dig through the scaling of the videogame their favorite guest character appeared in. Like the purpose of the wiki is.
This is not at all necessary at all and seems to mostly stem out of personal desires of yours, as Sera pointed out. This is an indexing site, yeah, but the main thing it is aiming for is accuracy, and nothing more; we don't need tens of repeated pages that are really just copy-pastes of one another with an additional ability or key here and there. Correctness and reliability both hold far greater weight than the, sorry for the harsh word, ridiculous need to catalogue even the tiniest of details that next to no one cares about.
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
Needless to say, I agree with Sera and the others, you can do Composite / Non-Canon pages in your own personal blogs or sandboxes or whatever as a small fun experiment, but trying to apply this as a standard that everyone should follow is plain laughable.
I don’t think putting sandboxes in categories is a good idea, since those are just for drafting. Blogs would be better and I guess F&G vs threads with them wouldn’t cause any harm.
Sandboxes was just a suggestion but yeah. I don't think the idea is bad if it's handled well, but I agree that dumping the most minor of non-canon changes in primarily canon articles can be confusing or even misleading.
I wouldn’t say me assuming that there’s others who share this opinion is projecting. Me recognizing that my thoughts aren’t unique is why I say this.
As for the idea that we don’t need to, beer I remind you of the fact that you had to have a thread like the otherone in the first place? The fact people want smash profiles for whichever character ur proof that this type of thing would be useful, because it gets all the information out there fast. Who said I was forcing it on anyone, by the way? If y’all would rather have to have endless conversation rejecting people for the same reason than come up with a low effort compromise to get rid of the complaints, then be my guest, all i’m saying is laziness isn’t an excuse for refusing to document information when you claim to care about information.
You misunderstand. People weren’t saying they wanted Smash files because they want non canon files, they were claiming that BBxTB and Smash files are similar to SMT Dante and similar and thus should also be allowed.
No one wants to list a bunch of non canon and outlier feats anywhere.
I think that it would be better to make people convert these to blogs or do notes or LITERALLY ANYTHING else to get the information out so the site can do its job? What’s the point in using “indexing site” as an argument as STAFF when you don’t want to do your best to give as much info as possible? You might as well say X character can’t have a profile just because you don’t feel like it.
It’s actually nonsense. Y’all don’t even have to do much of anything because no one is forcing you to make these yourselves. I’m just saying that if anyone asks for a profile, you tell them to put it on a giant blog instead. Have a procedure to handle this in a way that doesn’t just fucking dead the information anyone would be asking for. It’s also absolutely false that no one is asking or cares to hear of this information. We got Weekly over here at least INTERESTED in the idea of High Tier RWBY as a whole example, and anyone who didn’t know anything about that but likes RWBY like he does would like to know this too.
I agree with Sera and Dragon's points. The OP will be unnecessary as it yield a lot of work, little pay offs, and open the cans to worms to a lot of bad profiles like Sera explained from Antvasima's view.
I’m able to post a few different examples in detail if you’d give me the chance to produce a visual example, so that way you staff can take your pick. But something has to be done. You clearly don’t want these profiles to keep being attempted, you also claim to care about indexing. It’s logically contradictory to omit simple shit, when this whole site is just as unnecessary as this request.
Saying things like “nobody wants this” is both untrue, and ignores problems at hand, and misinterpreting me saying “no one knows Kaguya is Multi Solar System” as me saying “no one knows about Kaguya” is also ridiculous. Take Darkanime’s work on the Anime version of Dragon Ball Z. I wouldn’t have known shit about that scaling without that guy’s work. No one needs to work extremely hard to gather everything, but point people away from profiles and into different things or make accommodations or something. Just saying no and not pointing anyone to anything alternatively has been the practice for a long time on this subject— I have yet to see any staff do that when dealing with a situation like this personally speaking, nor am I aware of any resource where this information can sit in one hub just Incase someone is curious.
Taking “indexing site” way to seriously— you act like you don’t actually want to cover information. I know i’m Not the only one who doesn’t like how gatekeeper the standards for a “notable” work is to be able to be featured on the site. To be as exclusive as possible or lazy with the application of profiles or some form of documentation defeats the purpose you guys claim this cite serves.
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
Sera, i’m Talking about this from the beginning. Since, like, years ago. I’ve seen people ask about creating smash bros profiles, i’ve Seen why people rail against the idea of them because they’re just “higher tier” profiles.
From my perspective, this cite is a place where you can learn about the strength of multiple characters from all kinds of fiction. Some people even learn new things about new stories or content and get into them because of this cite. So you can’t say these profiles serve no purpose if not everyone in their mother knows that Smash Kirby is 7-B or whatever.
Then my response to Ultima is why would you even consider continuing the use of this wiki if your purpose isn’t to inform anyone of anything? Why are you indexing all this information if not to be a hub for information of this type— and why do you find it rational to exclude as much info as you do despite it still being official and published content made by a company with the rights to said intellectual properties?
What’s the point in refusing to provide people with more obscure information when you’re already tasking yourself with providing people with obscure information that no one neither understands nor cares about in the grand scheme of things. No one gives a shit about powerscaling. And then you narrow it down to the nerds that do. No one wants to know about obscure powerscaling shit that would be cool to use, except for the people who you narrow down this niche to.
Besides, you all act like YOU’RE the ones who have to do it. All i’m Asking is that you come together and find SOME WAY to put the info somewhere. Whatever way you feel comfortable with, complex or small, whenever you feel like it— hell, just make a fucking page that gives instructions on how to make or where to put this kind of information and leave it with the fucking non-staff who want it. I’m not asking for anything more than a place to put this shit that isn’t the joke wiki that no one uses for anything but memes. Ever wondered why people would rather make whole new wikis to keep stuff instead of making a blog, posting it on some section that’s easily navigable here, and calling it a day? Because you don’t have something like that that everyone knows about.
And the fact that I am neither the first to ask for this material nor the last— that I am neither the only one interested in this material, nor the only one who wants it to be on here is proof that there should be something publicly known and useable for this type of thing. So that way, instead of just saying no, and letting information that not everyone knows be fucking gone or put someplace no one will find, there’s a place for it.
Otherwise, what’s the point of this wiki? I get what glass said, but why is that the cutoff point— when we can have an actual conversation about what is and isn’t something worth documenting under a bigger lens than just “is it a part of a franchise or not?” And be able to solve problems easier.
People aren’t likely to react as negatively to this as a no, because then they can both find and create the things that they need. Saying “who cares about this fan fiction bullshit” is just bias and not objective at all.
Why have this arbitrary distinction Sera? Why have that be the purpose— if I am deliberately trying to browsing the scope of the purpose, why is your response “but our purpose is smaller than that, and being bigger is stupid.” Why?
And how is an opinionated statement on the merits of something from a perspective of a person who doesn’t care about the topic at all helpful or viable?
Do you even understand what I am asking?
I’m not asking for Wanked Chuck Norris, or Composite Old Man Martial Artist or anything like that.
I’m asking that, if there’s a stronger version of 2B than what she is canonically that is officially endorsed and published by the creators or allowed to exist by those creators (as in it’s not fucking real fanfiction), I would want to be able to come on this site and find out how strong and information pertaining to that area of interest. Why? Because I come here to learn about everything else the exact same way, only difference being whether or not they matter to a story that I already am not on this wiki to talk about from a narrative or literary perspective.
The way things should be handled is, If it’s real and not fanmade, published by the actual creators, and all the other common sense important shit besides “do they acknowledge them as real in the story” then it should have a place here— if not as a full profile, as some documentation. Where the fuck else are people gonna learn this shit if they wanted to know it, and if you don’t care about helping people learn about this shit, why do you care about anything else revolving around helping people learn about fictional powerscaling? It’s the same idea, just extended.
It can be in any way y’all feel comfortable with, just put it in a place where people can see it and look through it if they want to.
You’re misinterpreting me again. My point isn’t that outliers or hyperbole should be put on profiles as truth, i’m saying that they should be documented so people can KNOW about them, and not even really talking about those two things anyway, but them too.
There should be a page where we can see what the RWBY crew in BBXTT would be scaling wise, doesn’t have to be a profile. There should be a page where people can find non-canon feats, outlier or not, and find those calcs so they can know they exist. This is about INFORMING people, not making anyone stronger or weaker, I give 0 shits about that.
No, you’re drawing inappropriate parallels. Published material isn’t the same thing as fanfiction, and a site designed to index fictional characters based on their superhuman capabilities or lackthereof shouldn’t care about whether or not it’s necessarily a part of a franchise, but more about if it exists as an official, published bit of content, rather than if it’s a spin-off or not. I’m not even asking for profiles.
If everyone has time to type “what’s going on?!” Maybe you should try to read.
Amexim, basically, you want this crossovers rule to be inapplicable:
Profiles for crossover versions of characters from crossover games, and plot-irrelevant guest characters should NOT be allowed.
Examples: Mario (Smash Bros.), Thor (Marvel vs. Capcom), Jason Voorhees (Mortal Kombat), and Noctis (Tekken 7) As an extension of above, UNLESS their crossover version is basically defined by the crossover.
Ven’s argument is perfectly sound. You probably just don’t get it due to it being exaggerated but the premise is exactly the same. Allowing people access to something harmful just because they ask for it can have disastrous consequences.
And I keep going because otherwise there’s no point in this wiki being anything but staff only. If someone’s not gonna speak up about a concern they have regardless of the flow of opinions, then there’s no point in having any input from anyone because it’s all decided without you anyway, so going with it or not doesn’t change shit.
My point is that it’s nonsense to compare non-canon officially published material with non-canon fan created and unofficial material. And saying simply “we don’t let everyone do what they want” isn’t an answer to a nuanced problem. So when I interpret people as being rude or dismissive, I look at it that way because instead of talking to me normally, you jump down my throat before I even get the chance to explain, and then don’t respond to any of what I keep saying even after that.
Is no one going to even contemplate the idea that maybe it’s weird to treat non-canon but officially published work as unworthy of even the smallest attention when we have people who genuinely are interested in things like this. I don’t remember his exact handle, but Johncena something or other makes composite fun battles all the time, using things like 4A Kaguya. Shit I wouldn’t have known without him and his threads. Doesn’t even have to be a real profile, but I know i’m not the only one who is interested in this trivia.
I’m simply asking for a place on here to find it, considering that it would be real, official material.
Can you substantiate the claim that having a resource (hell with a big ass disclaimer that says NON-CANON material on it) can be harmful in any way? Do you really understand that I am not asking for outliers to be treated as consistent, nor have I ever have? Do you understand that I am not asking for Hyperbole to be treated a fact— I never even initially used the word? Do you understand that when I ask for a note on the profile, i’m asking for something extremely small, clearly non-canon to the point where you would have to be unable to read to make that mistake? Because I have been trying to say this the entire time.
I just want documentation. I don’t see how the knowledge that 4-A Kaguya in a non-canon piece of media can be harmful if her use is limited to fun and games, like all battles without profiles on this site are.
As is, nobody's stopping you from putting whatever you want in a blog. The thing is, it's just not the objective of the site to categorize non Canon stuff as official profiles. Feel free to make blogs with the file format and make whatever matches you want aith this, people just didagree with it becoming standard format.
Indexing be damned, as Cal Howard once said our vs threads are the primary attraction. And we damn sure are not about to enable people to use absolutely non canon material just so their favorite characters can be stacked.