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  • Previous thread: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:2470128

    Here we are! War of Underworld Part II! I kiiiinda didn't do this for Part I, but whatever. better now than never.

    Here's the weekly segment where I send the link to comments or sources that could help understand the episode better (Since the director really likes not adding important scenes that could get people to understand the anime better and we shouldn't blame Reki for all the crap that went wrong during the anime's production):

    Note: Spoiler questions and events should be marked as such.

    20200711 135237
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    • Xmark12 wrote: the final one lost their ability to think

      Is this a jojo reference

      Also we didn't even get to 400 replies SMH

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    • New threadd

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    • Alright this is something we ended up finding on discord

      AIs don't have proper fluctlights, thereby no soul

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    • So, was discussing this on Discord.

      Kirito's Alicization keys should be broken up like so:

      Pre-Goblin Fight (Alicization) | Post-Goblin Fight/Human Realm Arc (Alicization) | War of Underworld Arc (Alicization) | Star King Kirito (Alicization)

      This is because the current "Near the End of Alicization" key has feats from the Human Realm Arc and the "Middle of Alicization" key, which is supposed to represent the Human Realm Arc, doesn't have them.

      I'm suggesting we rename the keys to this and move the Human Realm feats (High 8-C Incarnation boost primarily) to the actual Human Realm key.

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    • Ok so I bailed on Alicization fast. I know a couple things about it but dont know enough to contribute here. I do know we need a profile for Argo in the Progressive key, I'm trying to put stuff together for that, and if that works I might try to see if I can pull together Progressive Keys for all the characters in it.

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    • That'll be cool. Progressive characters would be nice to have.

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    • Im just trying to work through all the other stuff I have to do and calc their feits. 

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    • I can help if you're stuck on any calcing stuff.

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    • Cool, I'll send stuff to you when I have worked out all the other stuff im trying to do. Im gonna try basing it of the LN but might use the Manga just for some visual refrences.

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    • Xmark12 wrote:
      So, was discussing this on Discord.

      Kirito's Alicization keys should be broken up like so:

      Pre-Goblin Fight (Alicization) | Post-Goblin Fight/Human Realm Arc (Alicization) | War of Underworld Arc (Alicization) | Star King Kirito (Alicization)

      I'm good with this.

      By the way, how's Gameverse going? I heard Gameverse Kirito was pretty haxxed.

      Edit: Also, Alicization Kirito can apparently stop time whenever he makes a call to the outside world. Should this be considered an actual ability?

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    • Gameverse kirito is really haxxed. Speaking of him, Is MD and SAOIF gonna be included in that?

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    • Are they the mobile games?

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    • Yes

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    • Are they connected with the original game series?

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    • Sao IF I'm not even sure.

      Memory defrag yes since it has characters like Philia, Rain, Seven and Premire

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    • I see. If so, MD can possibly be in the same profile, otherwise IF would have to be seperate.

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    • Kuroiha wrote:

      Edit: Also, Alicization Kirito can apparently stop time whenever he makes a call to the outside world. Should this be considered an actual ability?

      No, because this can only be used via an admin console, which is technically outside help and extremely situational. Otherwise Aincrad Arc and Fairy Dance Arc Kirito would have it too, considering the former has the same console while the latter has literally admin powers.

      Also yeah, MD maaaybe can be apart of Gameverse, while IF is different.

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    • Aite, doin the key changes right now.

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    • BTW. They said all the hax additions can be added to Kirito's profile. So since that's happening shouldn't Composite Link vs Kirito be redone/Removed now since the whole reason link won is because he was non coporeal?

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    • Maybe. Kuroiha can add in the new abilities. 

      Also you may have noticed Human Realm Arc Kirito is 8-A with Armament Full Control Art. Well that's intentional, since his clashed with Alice's own Enhance Armament, and he's also comparable to Eugeo, so there's that.

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    • Sorry for the extremely late reply. I was quite busy.

      I have done so.

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    • Aite.

      I wanna actually start on Asuna's Alicization key. If there's anyone who can go through scans (I can't right now since I have an AP test tomorrow), it'd be greatly appreciated.

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    • Since testing has just finished up, I will most likely be more active around these parts nowadays.

      I can do so, but it would take a while. Alicization Asuna is... complicated to say the least. She switches out of her Super Account rapidly, and her scaling is sometimes wobbly (one moment can create entire ravines and split the entire environment, the next gets harmed by a low-level elemental arrow or something like that).

      I can finish Star Queen Asuna in a jiffy, though.

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    • Alrighty, just asking so that we can use the Asuna render I had for a while now:
      AsunaAlicizationRender2
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    • Star Queen Asuna Draft

      Feel free to change anything you want to. I'll get started on the rest of her alicization keys.

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    • Fixed the regeneration expanation, but gonna read more on it later. Looks good right now though.

      Also, there's something that's been bugging me about the War of Underworld Arc Kirito and Star King Kirito.

      Kirito absorbed resources and was "powered by the world", right? And right after we never see him lose that power (I haven't read vol. 19 and 20 though, so I may be wrong).

      If he absorbed all of that power, shouldn't he keep it, making him 4-B right after doing so? I mean, it fits right in with Star King Kirito. Why would SK!Kirito lose power he already absorbed, becoming High 4-C instead? 

      Unless we get confirmation that "powered by the world" was only a temporary boost, I was thinking that after Kirito absorbs the stars, he keeps that power and stays 4-B, making his Star King key 4-B to 4-A instead of High 4-C to 4-A.

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    • It would be more High 4-C to 4-B, possibly 4-A considering that 4-B is a possibility on the world key

      That said if he's really permanently boosted by it I guess that works

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    • We'll need scans for vol. 19 and 20 to make sure that he keeps his power first. It's never stated he loses his power in vol. 18, and considering how consistent he is as Star King, I'm pretty sure he retains his power after absorbing the resources in the world.

      Also Asuna scales (dunno how she became Star King level, but I'm assuming it's because super accounts can grow in power preeeeetty easily).

      Also I don't remember if this is confirmed in the light novel, but Kirito becomes uber powerful via Incarnation because, just like how the STL amplified Kirito's negative Incarnation (turning him into a vegetable), it also amplified his positive Incarnation, which allowed him to flash freeze 20k people where he definitely wouldn't have been able to do that before.

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    • Alright so how good this arc comparing to the previous arc? Because god that Alfheim Online arc and the antagonist who-really-trash-af-that-guy-must-die-f***ing-trash-authormustblamedcreatingthistrashantagonist is terrible, even GGO seems make it better but not really, Mother Rosario arc i enjoy it, doesn't change my negative look on SAO.

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    • It's "Digibro made an uninterrupted 8 minutes of footage praising an episode" and "Mom's Basement has made no videos and actually voiced his liking on Twitter" sort of good

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    • Veloxt1r0kore wrote:
      Alright so how good this arc comparing to the previous arc? Because god that Alfheim Online arc and the antagonist who-really-trash-af-that-guy-must-die-f***ing-trash-authormustblamedcreatingthistrashantagonist is terrible, even GGO seems make it better but not really, Mother Rosario arc i enjoy it, doesn't change my negative look on SAO.

      I mean, if you never liked SAO in the first place, this arc won't change your mind, and likely not much else would change that unless you decide to consume a lot of the content.

      Also the Abridged doesn't count as canon SAO content ofc. I prefer to refer that series as a separate IP entirely with different merits.

      If you really want to get into SAO content I'd recommend reading the light novels here. The username is sao (lower case) and the pasword is Alicization (A is capitalized).

      If you want timeline order (which I believe is the best way to read it, considering you'll get into Progressive content, which is Aincrad floor-by-floor), just PM me.

      But again, if you're just wanting to casually watch SAO in anime form, you likely won't change your perception on it, considering the anime cuts out a lot of content from the light novels, such as important characterization and entire chapters (which is why the Aincrad arc is so segregated).

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    • Xmark12 wrote:

      I mean, if you never liked SAO in the first place, this arc won't change your mind, and likely not much else would change that unless you decide to consume a lot of the content.

      Also the Abridged doesn't count as canon SAO content ofc. I prefer to refer that series as a separate IP entirely with different merits.

      If you really want to get into SAO content I'd recommend reading the light novels here. The username is sao (lower case) and the pasword is Alicization (A is capitalized).

      If you want timeline order (which I believe is the best way to read it, considering you'll get into Progressive content, which is Aincrad floor-by-floor), just PM me.

      But again, if you're just wanting to casually watch SAO in anime form, you likely won't change your perception on it, considering the anime cuts out a lot of content from the light novels, such as important characterization and entire chapters (which is why the Aincrad arc is so segregated).

      So it doesn't change anything,meh then, at least the antagonist is realy better than trashy f***er he-must-die authorshouldbeblamedcreatingthisatagonist Alfheim Online antagonist

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    • I dunno, I myself was watching Aincrad purely to see how bad it was, only went "eh it's okay" to GGO, got more angry then I have ever been at anything as I witnessed an entire hospital give an entire family un uncurable strain of HIV and thereby AIDS

      And then at the end of the day Alicization, despite a bumpy start, actually holds up really well.

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    • Xmark12 wrote:
      We'll need scans for vol. 19 and 20 to make sure that he keeps his power first. It's never stated he loses his power in vol. 18, and considering how consistent he is as Star King, I'm pretty sure he retains his power after absorbing the resources in the world.

      Also Asuna scales (dunno how she became Star King level, but I'm assuming it's because super accounts can grow in power preeeeetty easily).

      There are few fighting scenes in volume 19 and 20, because they're mainly centered off of Kirito's life in the Underworld as Representative Swordswman of the Human World Unity Council (UW's version of a World Government). The two books mainly focus on building and developing characters and their relations with others, and worldbuilding.

      They lack any truly powerful feats, but show quite a lot of progress in character made by Kirito. (Ex: Kirito can now flash-freeze using the air surrounding him at cyrogenic-levels with his hand, can sense objects and humans up to 10 km away, developing his Mechadragons, destroying entire mansions with a wave of his hand, generating 10000 light elements at once, etc.)

      ...And it's also faintly implied Kirito had an affair.

      As for volume 21, SK Kirito plays a rather large role in Unital Ring, and it's implied he'll be taking an antagonistic role soon. (Kirito vs Kirito, anyone?)

      TL;DR: Volume 19-20 lacks feats and battle scans, volume 21 contains SK Kirito as a digital entity who can also live on the internet (?), and will likely become an antagonist soon.

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    • Kuroiha wrote: ...And it's also faintly implied Kirito had an affair

      you

      Kirito what in fork's name

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    • My reaction exactly, lmao.

      But then again, there's no way anybody can live 200 years with a partner peacefully without having a crack, so I guess it's normal.

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    • On one hand that's fair

      on the other hand it allows me to laugh as it tears Mark's enjoyment of ordinal scale limb from limb

      well okay it more just gives a few papercuts but THOSE ARE THE PAPERCUTS OF MY VENGEANCE

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    • I mean, it doesn't change much considering they were still together till the end and still loved eachother deeply, so...

      Anyways, it looks like nothing contradicts Kirito losing power and in-fact looks like he gained some feats as well, so yeah, I agree with the 4-B Star King Kirito.

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    • Yeah, 4-B seems good to me.

      Then again, it's implied, but it's definitely possible. (Cough, cough, a certain redhead and her friend's descendants) Furthur quotes by them even say it was possible for Kirito to have multiple wives, but unlikely, IIRC.

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    • Found this in volume 17. Just something I found interesting:

      Asuna sank into the chaos of the moment — Her bewilderment was shattered by the roars of the red troops that had already approached within a few hundred meters.

      “Charge ahead!!”

      “Give ‘em hell!!”

      — English!

      Those people are all humans from the real world — judging by their accent, they’re Americans!

      But, why would they be here… This is a genuinely different world, completely cut off from the real world…

      No.

      No —

      Maybe, to the people diving in with STLs, Underworld was actually a different world created through the “Mnemonic Visual” with realism rivaling that of the real world. However, the generic VRMMO template «The Seed» had also been used to design this world. In other words, as long as one used an AmuSphere, they could dive into this world using a low-end server based on polygonal construction — furthermore, the Ocean Turtle had a large, military-grade bandwidth satellite connection.

      Then, if someone were to write a client program that included Underworld central server address and the accompanying account information, and disseminate it in the real world — Not just several tens of thousands; summoning an army of hundreds of thousands was certainly not impossible.

      But what shocked Asuna the most was how those crimson soldiers acted; they had started to directly attack their supposed allies, the Dark Land Knights and the Fist Fighter army, without any hesitation.

      “Wh, what are they…?!”

      “Aren’t they supposed to be our allies?!!”

      The Knights screamed desperately while trying to defend against the attack, but their numbers were already far too disproportionate, and on top of that, the crimson soldiers’ weapons and armor were of much higher specs than the Dark Land army’s equipment.

      One after another the swords and shields started breaking apart, and together with the agonizing screams from the collision of both armies, innumerable spurts of blood began gushing out.

      “Dude that’s awesome!!”

      “Pretty gore!!”

      These Americans were probably completely unaware of the true nature of this battle. They were probably under the impression that their diving in was merely taking part in an open beta test for some new VRMMO. Therefore, she could not blame them for swinging their swords and killing everyone. After all, to them, these soldiers were not conscious beings equal to humans; they were NPCs, mere trifles. Of course, not everyone was atrociously evil; in the real world, they were still VRMMO players who could be friendly and work together with other players on the same server. If there was time to inform them of the true nature behind Underworld and the Artificial Fluctlights, Asuna believed that most of them would immediately drop their weapons.

      But they hadn’t such leisure right now. Even if Asuna tried to step into the battlefield and explain the situation in English, they would just think of her as an NPC speaking preset lines. If they were told “killing enemies right now will earn you points, which you can exchange for rare items after the official release”, even the Japanese players would do the exact same thing.

      In short, verbally convincing them was impossible.

      The people the Americans were trying to kill were not NPCs, but artificial Fluctlights carrying real souls. After finishing off the soldiers of the Dark Territory, those of the Human World would surely be next. Then, as the only one present inhabiting a transient body, she had to fight.

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    • Also new feats:

      All Integrity Knights or people who use Incarnation can sense a specific person's presence, even through long distances or through thousands of people. So probably best to add that as Enhance Senses to all people who are conscious about Incarnation.

      Asuna (before becoming Star Queen) could manipulate (create and destroy) terrain that can extend all the way up to the horizon, though it'd put immense stress on her.

      Vector (Gabriel) can absorb Incarnation (so basically he has the ability to absorb other people's reality warping... dunno how that works), souls, and basically everything else.

      Super Accounts also are automatically 6-C, as Asuna could shake the world and Vector obviously scales to Kirito.

      Bercouli has Reactive Evolution though adapting to skills only after seeing them in seconds, even against Vector, whose fighting style basically consisted of him sliding across the ground instead of using any footwork and ignoring a telegraph/anticipation motion and basically immediately teleporting into an attack; basically making his movements nearly impossible to predict. Vector also being faster than him and being able to one shot him at any time doesn't help him too. Despite this, Bercouli still adapted within seconds.

      Bercouli also has Mid regeneration via being able to regenerate his entire arm with Sacred Arts (no incantation needed. Also needs spatial resources like all Sacred Arts).

      Even with an arm cut off, getting a fatal wound on his chest, and a lot of his willpower and mind being absorbed by Vector with every clash, Bercouli still had extreme willpower available and still fought even though he should have been dead. He basically has Lancer's Battle Continuation through sheer will (Incarnation) alone. And he won against Vector (at the cost of his life).

      In summary, if 6-C Super Accounts come true, then Bercouli would've defeated a 6-C even though he was an 8-C+. Well, he used his Release Recollection to do it, but he still fought against and out-skilled an enemy that could one-shot him at any time in 10+ minutes. Keep in mind that this enemy also out-skilled pro GGO players, and won BoBs by going unarmed or just using a knife.

      Edit: So Vector can basically absorb someone's willpower and mind; affecting their Incarnation in the process since it's made from the user's will and mind.

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    • Btw how good Quinella comparing to the others antagonist? (yeah, this include that trash-bag-fail-antagonist-that-guy-should-die-authormustbeblamedcreatingthistrash antagonist from AFO)

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    • Quinella is a "give no forks" type, which is enjoyable to watch

      They don't have the simple depth Kayaba does in a sense, but she's good

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    • Ah thank god, at least have something to enjoy while watching.

      And yeah the trash bag antagonist of AFO can just die there.

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    • Velox can you like

      Chill when talking about fiction

      Like, instead of repeating trashbag and death threats can't you just not and move on

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    • Against the character i really hate to deep in my soul and mind? I can try but the chance is slim.

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    • Just

      Man you are ranting about a construct of lines arrayed in a fashion of a humanoid

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    • I dunno how to feels about your comment above, angry or laugh lel

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    • Be angry at yourself being angry at a completely fictional creation

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    • If i do that i'm just hurting myself like the last thing i angry at myself i'm ended up beat my own face.

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    • What in forks name is wrong with ye lad

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    • Me being me

      Anyway let's stop it right now since we are derailing and i'm the one who start it so i take the responsibility.

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    • I finished reading through volume 15 and found some good feats.

      AP: 

      • More than one-hundred goblin soldiers is required to counteract even a single average Perfect Weapon Control Art (called Armament Full Control Art on this wiki) from an Integrity Knight. This is of course backed up by Deusolbert and other Integrity Knights easily taking out more than 50+ goblins casually with their Perfect Weapon Control Arts. This should be calced obviously to see if we can possibly get a higher rating for these characters' APs. This would scale to all Integrity Knights.
        • P.S: Deusolbert was able to take out more than 42 goblins. In that battle, his second attack took out 50+, so maybe that can be calced too since that's actually a feat.

      Hax:

      • Bercouli's so GAR that he can bend Incarnation's probability manipulation to his will, as seen here:
        • You saw it happen. I swung level at the right. It was an Empty slash—the fastest attack of my life and completely unthinking. My first movement gave me the advantage over Bercouli... However—however. When he put up his sword to receive the blow, which should have rebuffed it, he somehow pushed back my swing instead and chopped off my arm. Can you believe this, Vixur? In the moment, his sword was not even touching mine!... It is truth. It was as if the path of my swing itself was pushed aside by some invisible force. Not arts. Not Perfect Weapon Control. There is only one way to describe the phenomenon. My Empty Sword lost in battle to the willpower he refined over two centuries. He envisioned the path his sword was meant to take so powerfully that it became unshakable truth!
      • Only higher-up Integrity Knights or strong Incarnation users can use Incarnate Arms (telekinesis), and those with extremely powerful Incarnations can use Incarnate Swords (attacking or defending against enemies from a distance, essentially spatial manipulation). The only ones who have been shown to use Incarnate Swords (from my knowledge) are Bercouli and Kirito.
      • Like I stated in a previous comment, high Incarnation users can sense whether someone is in an area, is alive, or just died, even if they're kilometers apart. It's more like a sense than anything, so I believe giving them Enhanced Senses would be fitting. The only ones I believe who have shown this are Alice and Bercouli, though there could definitely be more.
      • Shasta (one of the new characters that will appear in the next arc) has an Enhance Armament that allows him to negate durability by directly severing or piercing the target's Life instead of their body.
      • Shasta's Release Recollection allows him to essentially turn into a tornado of durability negating rampage... literally. He turns into a non-corporeal whirlwind that attacks and durability negates anything in a 20 meter diameter. In addition, this whirlwind "transcended even the system of the Underworld". He does not eliminate the Life value of his enemies. Instead, he literally forces the mental image of death into his enemies, destroying their fluctlights. The description later details this pretty clearly as soul manipulation, so yeah.
      • Gabriel resists soul manipulation because his "soul was dead, even as it lived". I'm not sure whether this means that Gabriel lacks a soul, but either way he completely ignored Shasta's soul destruction Release Recollection, so it's still resistance.
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    • That's more extrasensory perception

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    • Xmark12 wrote:
      • Like I stated in a previous comment, high Incarnation users can sense whether someone is in an area, is alive, or just died, even if they're kilometers apart. It's more like a sense than anything, so I believe giving them Enhanced Senses would be fitting. The only ones I believe who have shown this are Alice and Bercouli, though there could definitely be more.

      Kirito sensed Alice and another object who were literally on the other side of Underworld (1000-3000 km) before in Volume 18 (IIRC), and in Volume 19 or 20, he sensed a living object 10 km away from his palace.

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    • Then War of Underworld/Star King Kirito would have extrasensory perception. Star Queen Asuna likely would have it too via scaling.

      What do you guys think about the other feats? Shasta could definitely get a profile.

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    • IMG 20190611 023514
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    • So extra items and positive effects to the SAO avatars (and possibly ALO?) would be:

      • Cure Status Effect Inducements (Movement Slow, Stun/Fumble/Paralysis, Curse, Dizziness, Poison, Blindness, Body Part Loss Damage, Coma, Bleeding, Panic, Stomachache, Silencing) via Antidote Crystals and potions (though potions are over-time).
      • 100% HP Heal via Healing Crystal and HP Heal over time via potions.
      • Teleportation via Teleport & Corridor Crystals.
      • Either Supernatural Luck or limited Probability Manipulation (considering SAO actually uses probability to an extent for attacking, fumble and tumble chances, drop rate, etc., it's probably probability manip.).
      • Attract Hate (Aggro. Obviously NPCs only).
      • Statistics Amplification (ATK, DEF, & Knockback Effect increase. The Chant Skill gives a bonus to defense, poison resistance, and stun resistance).

      The rest of the crystals are non-combat applicable.

      As for Status Effect Inducements players can deal to their enemies:

      • Movement Slow (Self explanatory)
      • Stun/Fumble/Paralysis (Fumble makes enemies drop their weapons. Stun is 10 seconds. Paralysis is 10 minutes)
      • Tumble (Humanoid monsters only)
      • Aggro (NPCs only)
      • Curse (Probably a general debuff)
      • Dizziness (Self explanatory)
      • Poison (Self explanatory)
      • Blindness (Self explanatory)
      • Body Part Loss Damage (Self explanatory)
      • Coma (Basically a knockout)
      • Bleeding (Self explanatory)
      • Panic (Fear Manipulation most likely)
      • Stomachache (Self explanatory)
      • Silencing (Stops people from talking, thus stopping them from using a Crystal's voice commands)

      I also recommend SAO characters to also have type 2 Immortality just like SAO Tabletop, since even if their limbs and such are completely sliced off, there will only be Body Part Loss Damage for a short period of time before it ends. Hell, even in ALO, Sugou survived being chopped in half for pretty long, and so did Death Gun. The only reason why they died was because they were already at such low HP that the Body Part Loss Damage just did its thing. Hell, that one character from SAO Alternative: GGO didn't even flinch seeing both of her legs completely severed, and was just like "meh".

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    • Oh boy

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    • Also don't forget that Quick Change allows the user to switch out entire inventory sets or recall weapons that were disarmed from them within less than a second.

      Man, SAO Progressive added a lot of stuff to indirectly buff SAO avatars. Not that I'm complaining though.

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    • Sao needs more buffs anyway. So this is enlightening honestly

      Also I agree with type 2 immortality

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    • Woo, SAO avatars now have hax in the form of Status Effect Inducements!

      A lot of them are pretty powerful too, like fear manip, obviously paralysis, poison, blindness, etc..

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    • >Now more matches will be spammed

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    • Is there gonna be a CRT thread

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    • I mean, I don't think it needs a CRT thread since all of this doesn't seem controversial.

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    • True

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    • You know, up until I watched Markiplier dual wield chairs and immediately thought of the second OP, I forgot how much of a banger it was

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    • Some of Kirito's VR matches need to be removed due to incarnation.

      Kirito vs Link needs to be removed and Redone via kirito now having non physical interaction which was the reason kirito lost.

      Some other matches might need removals aswell

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    • I agree. Which ones do you think should be removed, total?

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    • "Mukuro Ikusaba (Danganronpa) Mukuro's profile (GGO Kirito was used. Speed was equalized)

      Gazef Stronoff (Overlord) Gazef's Profile (Kingdom's Treasures Gazef, ALO Kirito was used. Speed equalized)

      Mr. Game & Watch (Game & Watch) Mr. G&W's Profile (ALO Kirito and High 8-C Mr. Game & Watch was used)

      Composite Link (The Legend of Zelda) Link’s Profile (Kirito was 4-A and speed was equalized)"


      And maybe his two inconclusives since kirito has more stuff now. Though I'm not sure it would change much in the ainz fight.

      That's it I think.

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    • Definitly wouldn't change the Ainz fight.

      Gazef would still probably one-shot before Incarnation happens, though at the same time Incarnation did allow Kirito to stay alive and kill Heathcliff, so same thing can happen here and lead to an inconclusive.

      Link vs Kirito is harder to decide now, so best to remake those.

      Same with the others.

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    • Which ones should we remake first?

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    • Kirito vs Link

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    • I want to do kirito vs Reinhard (From Re:Zero) because there's a huge chance kirito can get into isekai quartet. Though unfortunately kirito isn't City level nor Multi continental.

      Any ideas?

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    • Sorry for the late reply. I'm currently overseas and connection is horrible.

      Kirito vs Rimuru

      Kirito and Heathcliff (SAO) vs Naofumi and Rapthalia (BoS)

      Maybe I'll think of some others later. It's quite late over where I'm at.

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    • It would be really funny if kirito beat Rimuru but I thinks that's a stomp.

      That's a good match though idk how it would go.

      Alright

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    • Naofumi and Raphtalia don't have their LN counterparts yet, though someone's working on them.

      They could turn out to be 8-C or High 8-C from killing the giant whale in the wave at Cal Mira, but still not enough AP to take out Kirito and Heathcliff (also why Heathcliff? Asuna sounds like a better pick).

      Also, they could also just jump to 7-A or higher after defeating the Spirit Turtle, who's the size of multiple mountains, so...

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    • Xmark12 wrote:

      also why Heathcliff?

      Probably for something like this.

      Pokemon-sword-and-shield-main-new-997d
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    • Naofumi probably has High 7-A durability during the ST Arc for withstanding The Spirit Tortoise's strongest attacks, which were described to obliterate mountain ranges.

      The Spirit Tortoise Heart Shield gives him High 7-A AP, although it's a one-time use with an extremely long cooldown, since he defeated Kyo, a being that scales immensely to The Spirit Tortoise, and was overpowering Glass, L'Arc, Therese, Raph-chan, Raphtalia, Filo, Naofumi, and Kizuna all at once.

      All other characters later on and his companions should all scale since they too defeated the Spirit Tortoise.

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    • Actually, unrelated to SAO, but Xmark, have you read the TRSH LN?

      Could you check out my draft on Naofumi?

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Kuroiha/TRSH_LN

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    • Yeah, I read a bit of the light novels. I'll check it out.

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    • Thank you.

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    • I think Blood Sacrifice can be at least Building level via likely being stronger than Judgement. So can other Shield of Rage abilities like Iron Maiden.

      What are the speed feats though?

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    • I see. I'll change that, then.

      Most of the speed ratings are from a scaling tree of characters.

      First 3 Keys:

      Naofumi, Raphatlia, Filo, and Raph-chan (All Sacrifice Aura) = Full Power Kyo = Awakened Rishia (Faster than Kyo) >>>>> Powered up Kyo (Described to be 3x faster than Full Power Glass) >>> Kyo (Outclassed everyone) > Yomogi (FTE to Raphtalia) > Raphtalia (Post-Vassal Weapon, FTE to Filo) => Filo (Highest Humming Fairy Form + Haikuikku, FTE to Naofumi) >> Naofumi (ST Arc, Could guard lightning-based attacks) >> Filo (Pre-Shield of the Demon Arc) FTE via Haikuikku) >>>> Naofumi (Second Wave)

      Last Key:

      Gaelion (Wrath Dragon) => Heavenly Emperor Arc (v13) Naofumi => S'yne >>> Full Power Sadeena >>>> Sadeena => Weakened/Debuffed Rebuilding Naofumi (Faster than Lightning, but is weaker than ST Arc Naofumi))

      If you want some feats, they're mostly lightning-intercepting feats, FTE feats, FTE-scaling tree feats (X is FTE to Y), lightning dodging feats, laser/heat beam dodging feats, etc. There's a few others. I'll try to find them.

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    • We're derailing the thread guys. That's bad.

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    • Ah. My apologies, I got a bit carried away. I'll probably just take it to the wall if I need Xmark's opinion again.

      Back on track, what do you guys think UR Kirito's tier will be EoS? There's a high chance SK Kirito will be an antagonist, so...

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    • Scales to the antagonist at least... so SK Kirito level.

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    • Meaning more Tier 4 SAO...

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    • Hell yeah!

      Also what would a tier be for combining all Seed virtual worlds into one? Would that technically be infinite or would it have a certain "file size" each world?

      Cause it's heavily implied that Kayaba did it along with Star King Kirito. Maybe ghost Kayaba scales to SK?

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    • There is no such thing as infinite bytes, without lore an infinite world would be impossible

      That said, aren't the virtual worlds made by the seed only around country sized anyhow? Aincrad for one is only Island level for fragging, and I'm not sure how much bigger GGO or Alfhelm are

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    • SAO was one of a kind, so GGO and ALO are probably much smaller. So would the other virtual worlds be.

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    • So basically it's just a Tier 6 feat

      Downgrade the star king immediately

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    • Kek

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    • Btw shouldn't kirito have Limited Resurrection via incarnation on his profile

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    • How so?

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    • From dying to Heathcliff? I chalk it up to system failure or something. It's really a pis moment.

      That, or he stabbed Heathcliff before his 10 seconds post-death finished.

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    • The light novel and anime both depict the latter, where he just stayed alive long enough to stab Heathcliff. Him shattering and "resurrecting" in the anime was just imagery and symbolism that was a call-back to episode 1.

      I don't think it's resurrection. Just keep it reality warping and put the feat where he delayed his death long enough to stab Heathcliff.

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    • New CRT. Hope you guys didn't forget me. This one involves Goddess accounts.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:3492670

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    • We should add the items, debuffs and buffs that xmark mentioned earlier. Also the immortality type 2

      If no one is willing to do it then i can. But I'm not sure if I'm supposed add it to just SAO or ggo and ALO too.

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    • I could do it. Have a brief description/list on all the additions?

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    • Xmark12 wrote:
      So extra items and positive effects to the SAO avatars (and possibly ALO?) would be:
      • Cure Status Effect Inducements (Movement Slow, Stun/Fumble/Paralysis, Curse, Dizziness, Poison, Blindness, Body Part Loss Damage, Coma, Bleeding, Panic, Stomachache, Silencing) via Antidote Crystals and potions (though potions are over-time).
      • 100% HP Heal via Healing Crystal and HP Heal over time via potions.
      • Teleportation via Teleport & Corridor Crystals.
      • Either Supernatural Luck or limited Probability Manipulation (considering SAO actually uses probability to an extent for attacking, fumble and tumble chances, drop rate, etc., it's probably probability manip.).
      • Attract Hate (Aggro. Obviously NPCs only).
      • Statistics Amplification (ATK, DEF, & Knockback Effect increase. The Chant Skill gives a bonus to defense, poison resistance, and stun resistance).

      The rest of the crystals are non-combat applicable.

      As for Status Effect Inducements players can deal to their enemies:

      • Movement Slow (Self explanatory)
      • Stun/Fumble/Paralysis (Fumble makes enemies drop their weapons. Stun is 10 seconds. Paralysis is 10 minutes)
      • Tumble (Humanoid monsters only)
      • Aggro (NPCs only)
      • Curse (Probably a general debuff)
      • Dizziness (Self explanatory)
      • Poison (Self explanatory)
      • Blindness (Self explanatory)
      • Body Part Loss Damage (Self explanatory)
      • Coma (Basically a knockout)
      • Bleeding (Self explanatory)
      • Panic (Fear Manipulation most likely)
      • Stomachache (Self explanatory)
      • Silencing (Stops people from talking, thus stopping them from using a Crystal's voice commands)

      I also recommend SAO characters to also have type 2 Immortality just like SAO Tabletop, since even if their limbs and such are completely sliced off, there will only be Body Part Loss Damage for a short period of time before it ends. Hell, even in ALO, Sugou survived being chopped in half for pretty long, and so did Death Gun. The only reason why they died was because they were already at such low HP that the Body Part Loss Damage just did its thing. Hell, that one character from SAO Alternative: GGO didn't even flinch seeing both of her legs completely severed, and was just like "meh".

      Also only put it on SAO Avatars.

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    • But the immo type two should go for all avatars right?

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    • Alright. I'll begin editing.

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    • Done. Should I add some better explanations, or add some info on the "Notable Attacks/Techniques" or "Standard Equipment" section?

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    • Mm, that'd be preferable. 

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    • Okay. I'll begin editing, in that case.

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    • War of the Underworld trailer came out.

      https://youtu.be/KVMAryHLqxw

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    • I don't know why, but I can't help but hate Alice. Even the voice of the voice actor pisses me off.I hope this character ceases to exist in the next arc, I got tired of so much repetitive. Novel has already reached a good level of strength, could explore the characters in the real world for now, but already comes the thing of merging worlds and so on.

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    • Kind of odd to complain about Alice but alright. You're not getting your wish though, Alice seems to be an existence still present during Accel World

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    • lmao

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    • It’s kiritos birthday today

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    • Happy Birthday Kirito-kun.
      EGNKVU9XYAElMlN

      Happy birthday Veggieto

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    • Alicization War of the Underworld is coming out in 3 days, if my information is correct. This thread might be getting lively soon.

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    • However, it got divided again. So we're only getting 12 episodes.

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    • It's on the 12th

      Which is in 4 days on the west coast

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    • Wait, really? It got divided again? Source?

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    • Xmark12 wrote: Wait, really? It got divided again? Source?

      https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1805031

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    • Rip

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    • Ono went shitposting on us and pulled a Eugeo on War of the Underworld.

      Though this means we'll probably get better action sequences than the disappointment that was the final fight against Quinella.

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    • >Pulled a Eugeo

      Hah, I get it

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    • I hate recap episodes so much

      I wanted to watch MHA and SAO today, not stuff I've already seen happen

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    • Episode 1 is up for S4. Just wanted to bring that up.

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    • Just finished the episode. Not bad, off to a good start. Opening isn't bad, either.

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    • From the opening, it's very clear who's the prota of this season.

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    • Btw

      Wouldn't kirito at the end of alicization be 20 instead of 19?

      He was 17 when he got in, 2 years passed so he would be 19 during the cathedral arc. In the beginning of that episode it said October 21st

      Kirito's birthday is on October 7th

      So wouldn't he be 20?

      Edit: also the episode was really good, I enjoyed it.

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    • Huh, they have a new episode after all

      Am I going insane or is the way Kirito holds his old swords kind of like how Guts sleeps with his swords

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    • @hypernepsy yep. Kirito is mentally 20 years old right now.

      On a side note, I'm kind of sad they went straight to the Rulid village stuff instead of building up the villains in the Dark Territory.

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    • Alright so kirito should be mentally 20 on his page.

      Also it's even sadder she got was forbidden to go the Village

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    • This is basically the War of Underworld arc in a nutshell. CaMYLjL

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    • Mukuro Ikusaba (Danganronpa) Mukuro's profile (GGO Kirito was used. Speed was equalized)

      Gazef Stronoff (Overlord) Gazef's Profile (Kingdom's Treasures Gazef, ALO Kirito was used. Speed equalized)

      Mr. Game & Watch (Game & Watch) Mr. G&W's Profile (ALO Kirito and High 8-C Mr. Game & Watch was used)


      These loses on kirito’s profile need to be redone or be removed. This was before incarnation was applied to all avatars i think.

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    • Pretty sure the Gazef one had Incarnation taken into account. 

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    • I reread it, it dosen't take incarnation into account. It was about sword skills and etc

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    • Made Yui

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    • It seems nice. Still Kirito doesn't care about her because he didn't remember her in Alicization Episode 8 when he was remembering people that was important for him.

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    • Best boi Shasta has appeared in the anime. Woot

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    • I think I found a supporting feat for 9-C Kirito, don't open this if you're at work or school

      Now that you've fallen into my trap, let us begin.

      According to an intellectual, Kirito pumped around 3.65 liters of semen into Asuna in chapter 16.5.

      From Google; "Early studies confirmed human semen to have a specific gravity of between 1.020 and 1.040 [2, 14] or a density of 0.970 to 1.043 g/ml [5] suggesting that the density is close enough to 1.0 g/ml when working to one decimal place and that weight should be an accurate index of volume.", meaning that Kirito released about 3.65 Kilograms of semen.

      Now, also from the internet, "The average speed of ejaculation has been measured to be approximately 45 km/hr (just below the allowable speed limit in most suburban areas). This is the average speed of the ejected semen relative to the ejaculatory penis, and can be increased by training the Kegel muscles (by pretending to withhold your urine).", which translates to 12.5 meters per second

      So, .5×3.65×12.5^2 makes for a yield of...

      285.15625 Joules, Athlete level+

      Now, then again, this was done in VR, so it's unknown if Kirito is this powerful in real life, meaning I trolled you all and made you read a total of 4, now 5, uses of the word semen because of forking Kirito

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    • Smh, I got my hopes up for a second

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    • foolishness, dante

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    • might controls everything

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    • Especially the might of your Kegel muscles

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    • DMUA wrote:

      This is the greatest calc ever done on this wiki and love you for doing it.

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    • I couldn't have done it without the help of Animeniaks

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    • 3 Liters

      What I got from that video

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    • very good takeaway

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    • "HOW DO YOY EVEN HAVE THAT MUCH IN YOUR SYSTEM?!

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    • "Level 96, son!

      Battle Healing activates in response to damage!"

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    • So ugh

      How do the novels explain the whole thing with the giant

      Because, as I was looking at my screen watching it unfold, Mentally ticking down on how long it takes for this to make sense

      I realize that the scene ended

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    • Multiple things:

      Remember how the rapey dude in Part 1 broke down because he wasn't able to comprehend something and made a paradox in his thought process? Same thing happened here. The giant had a breakdown because his thought process was "humans are weaker than him", but a human made him feel fear, thus creating a paradox in his thinking. Unlike the rapey dude though, the giant managed to prevent that paradox from killing him by using Incarnation, which goes to my next thing:

      Remember how all things in the Underworld but the most basic monsters have Fluctlights, thus have access to Incarnation? Yeah, the giant just used Incarnation in that entire scene. In-fact, nearly all the major players were using Incarnation throughout the entire episode. Deusolbert's Archer moment shooting a sword from his bow, one of Fanatio's knights protecting Fanatio herself by fucking headbutting the hammer, Fanatio excaliblasting the giant, etc..

      Also side note, in the episode with best man Shasta (RIP), he was using Incarnation there too to activate his Enhance Armament and Release Recollection in an attempt to kill Vector.

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    • Well, I guess that makes a bit more sense

      Forking A1 not explaining things

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    • I'm sure Kirito's inner-monologue will explain it at one point or another in more detail, and then everyone will go "woah! so that's what Kirito's yellow eyes mode is!"

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    • So Kirito has protected Alice and inspired Renri without moving a single muscle on the last two episodes. He's just that good.

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    • I can imagine the abridged having a field day with that

      Kirito: drooling out of his mouth, looking dead inside

      Renri: AH, YOU MAKE THE BEST SPEECHES KIRITO! I WILL GO AND FIGHT FOR ALL OF US

      They'd probably refine it way more, but still

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    • I mentioned earlier how I really didn't like Kirito blaintly wasting resources because he doesn't want to kill people, but, you know what I'm starting to really like in retrospect?

      The raw expression of war that was hinted at in the first season, and shown in all it's glory in this season

      You can tell very easily how the commanders of The Dark territory are merely using lives as a currency to their war, and no individual actually fighting really wants any of this to happen

      After all, "In war, you'll die like a dog for no good reason"

      Or in the latest episode's case, you'll be lead like a pig to slaughter.

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    • Episode 009 finally revealed Asuna as Stacia. The way they displayed it was quite cool, tbh.

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    • Well, fixed a small issue regarding Star King Kirito's stats.

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    • Asuna found Argo in the last volume of the novel. That's amazing, she's her only "friend".

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    • T0234807H wrote: Well, fixed a small issue regarding Star King Kirito's stats.

      Dude, 4-B is a possibility, it wouldn't be the at least for Star King

      You'd need a content revision thread for this anyways, don't just yeet it onto the profile just because you out of the many users who contribute to SAO on this site disagree.

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    • Dude, him moving the stars was WHEN he was empowered by the world, long before he became the star king, during his fight with Gabriel.

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    • That's a different key tho, and since Star King Kirito and Current Kirito are two different people I don't think the Star King should scale to War of Underworld Kirito while empowered by the world.

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    • https://www.wattpad.com/515214976-sword-art-online-volume-18-lasting-chapter-22/page/32

      Kirito moving the stars happened AT THE SAME TIME as when he was absorbing it, in THE SAME VOLUME.

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    • I mean, I agree that he shouln't lose his empowered by the world stats. He absorbed the energy. He keeps it.

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    • Updated best boi Bercouli

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    • Shouldn't he just straight up be High 8-C?

      Or 6-C if Vecta scales to Asuna

      Also my brain always registers him as Burcol, should we upgrade to 2-B for being one of the most powerful time patrollers in existence

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    • dang. last time i checked kirito was a weakling, now he is getting some damn nasty, disgusting hax and high tiers.

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    • > disgusting hax

      > Every single matchup is just "freeze" or "Kirito gets yeeted"

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    • Perfectly accurate summary of War of Underworld EP10:

      Asuna tells to the girls "This motherfu*ker looks like a b*tch magnet, first one that died, then me, then a little brat with animals as friends, then one who tried to stole him from me at her first chance, a nurse also eated him like a candy, then his cousin... HIS FU*KING COUSIN, CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?! Ah, sure, some clans' leaders, then came along one who thinks she's a hitman, from there... another one who died, but I think she was in love with me... not wanna talk about that... then another dead one... well, a dead girl's hologram... althought the one who got the kisses was me... let's leave it at that... and now you come along?! Fuc*, now you're going to tell me he's also in a relationship with a guy?

      Eugeo coming back from the dead: I didn't want to make troubles, but now that you mention it :'v

      Alice: You know you called yourself a b*tch, right?

      Asuna: I'm not A b*tch, I'm THE B*tch!

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    • Female dog isn't actually banned anymore so you can say it as you please

      Also reminder that star King Kirito also probably had an affair with that one redhead

      So, in short, what can learn from SAO?

      NTR is true love

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    • It's okay to be unfaithful if you have magical sword powers?

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    • No I really don't think magic sword powers make it okay to cheat on a woman

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    • Side note, Bercouli buff owo

      Casually stopping Asuna and Alice's fight without his sword, lol

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    • Finally, they tell us the main themes of SAO to those who don't understand it. Good episode! Here's a clip of the Lisbeth speech:

      https://youtu.be/pMlQMNW8Src

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    • That is a good speech, it really gets to you.

      And a question, those two at the end were Eiji and Yuna? They looked pretty similar to me.

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    • Probably. If so, we're getting into pretty anime-only territory now.

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    • Iirc Reki wanted to add them into Alicization and it seems that they will get added in the anime. If they are really Eiji and Yuna, I don't think they are going to do much, like, fighting againts random enemies and saying some minimal lines.

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    • Can we just talk about how in the scene where the Americans get thrown into recruited, not only is the engrish atrocious, but there's that one neck beard with way too hot of a girl behind him

      Is A1 trying to throw some shade at us or am I going deeper into insanity

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    • Lmao.

      On a serious note, not a bad episode, but it's starting to diverge or at least differ from the original source. I don't recall the dude with another pixie in there, at all (probably Eiji and Yuna). I'm also not sure, but they mentioned 30000 players as opposed to 20000.

      Edit: I'm also thinking of making a profile for Gabriel soon, so if anybody would like to help out (making the profile and finding feats), you're free to do so.

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    • Okay, after plenty of thought, I think I've finally pinpointed why the Lizbeth speech didn't sit well with me. Ironically, I pinpointed the faults, just as I started to understand what they were saying and how I fit right into it. Fiction is funny like that.

      Firstly, it just seems like it's really shoving the idea in your face. Like, it thinks that no one in the audience cares enough to pick up on it when it's told subtly. then again SAO has such a poor track record in construction that such a sentiment is entirely understandable

      In fact, Geoff kinda touches on this in a video entirely unrelated to SAO, here in his "what makes Hero Aca so good?"

      To quote;

      And the point of this video is not to dive deep and fully analyze the underlying message of Hero Aca, but rather to highlight its strengths. And I think the fact that it’s exploring the impact of social inequality and asking fundamental questions about the foundations of society, framed through a medium and genre that general audiences seem to like and understand, is a major point in its favor. I like it when stories – especially cool, fun, accessible stories – push their audiences to think about more important things. Of course, it is equally important for those stories to be cool, and fun, and not get bogged down in pontificating about those things (that’s my job). A good anime gives people good reasons to get invested in its underlying ideas. And one of the best ways to do that is by getting us invested in characters who are affected by those ideas.
      ~ professional bag of contents I'm sure you're aware of without me saying it

      To say outright "HEY GUYS FRIENDSHIPS AND BONDS MADE ONLINE ARE REAL" and rub it in for a solid 2 minutes of speech to people to convince them they should sacrifice their accounts in ALO because Alice is (apparently) made of said bonds just feels off.

      But, another thing is that it entirely praises the value of the unreality, while ignoring the points of the opposing side. You can't just live in your VR world, you need to go into the real one and work, have real people to rely on, and make an impact. Just living in another world where things are better won't really do anything, and to say it's this amazing, real place just feels... wrong.

      Though, in the process of writing this, I think I like it a lot better. The guys I've met here, while my parents are unloving and either yell at me or playfully mock me thinking they're funny depending on who we're talking about, are probably the only reason I'm sane. It's always pretty tough for me to talk and interact with people, and I don't have a woman I can lean on because my words are too ingrained into my head with no way out. I don't really understand the psychology behind it, but it's easier to type then it is to speak.

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    • >Hero Aca is so good

      Ok, I don't care about the rest of the argument, you lost me there.

      PD: I liked the speech.

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    • I don't think the speech even needed to address the real world in the first place. You have to appeal to your audience, and the audience in this case were gamers. You aren't going to convince them to sacrifice their accounts if you say their lives on said accounts are meaningless. 

      "But if they have meaning, then wouldn't that be more of a reason not to sacrifice said accounts?"

      Yeah, it sounds contradictory, but remember in that instance she was just proving that SAO survivors aren't just asses and murderers, and that being in SAO changed them for the better. Anyways, you could say that they were convinced because Lisbeth appealed to their knowledge that their accounts had meaning. If she didn't appeal to that fact, then it would've been harder to keep their attention.

      Also uhh, the "Alice is made of our bonds in the virtual world" thing is just a metaphor. Pretty obvious one at that. And you kind of have to be blunt when giving a speech like that. Most people in the world wouldn't want to spend the time to think of the deeper meanings of what someone says, speaking not from a writing standpoint, but instead as if I was one of the people sitting in that seat and listening to that speech.

      Side note, while writing this I also got another reason why they were convinced: Because Lisbeth simply got their sympathy. Emotional appeals go a long way, even if you think they don't. By telling them all of the sad stuff about SAO survivors being treated as criminals or outcasts, as well as teling them how much the virtual world means to them  that it's essentially another reality for them (thus being the reason why they want to protect the Underworld so badly, cause it's essentially another reality) – Lisbeth was able to convince the people there that this war is worth fighting in.

      Because VR are their alternate lives, where they could become someone else. These people are all games; they all believe that. Hearing someone justify your views makes you want to ally with the person giving the speech more, even if their logic isn't sound.

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    • Yeah, it just felt really forced. Like a video essay as opposed to someone making a speech to people.

      Depressingly I don't actually know how I'd fix it so h

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    • Side note, did someone remove the 3-B part of Kirito and Asuna's profiles?

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    • Well if they did, good for them because 3-B is kinda wanked

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    • So it shows that Asuna is definitely 8-C+ in durability at least, though apparently, according to a reddit post:

      To be fair, there were other circumstances at play here (LN details cut from the anime).

      It's mentioned a few times that one of the main features about the Super Accounts is that they have a ton of health. No matter how clean your strike is, it's impossible to kill a SA user with a single blow.

      Under normal circumstances, Asuna wouldn't have suffered such a huge injury (though she'd obviously still take damage), because she'd be durable enough to withstand it.

      However, in the heat of the battle Asuna didn't concentrate on that, and could only think with certainty that there was no way her arm could withstand that battle-axe. And because of that, she essentially used negative incarnation, incarnation that comes at a detriment to the user. She believed that her arm would be chopped off, and so her arm was chopped off.

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    • That's good to know. Is it worthy of being a note on her profile?

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    • At the very least, it means we should upgrade her dura.

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    • Orrrr, this means that the God accounts have Type 2 Immortality

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    • Asuna should totally by all means and accounts have at least 8-C dura.

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    • She already does, so ye

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    • So what's this argument for? If you agree with me, then I don't see the point.

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    • I just thought she should have Type 2 Immortality too, since even if you lop off her body parts, she'll still be alive.

      Oh, she should also have Healing/Regen on her profile, cause she just casually healed back her arm (via what I'm assuming to be Sacred Arts).

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    • I don't see anything on that quote that implies Type 2 Immortality, but the Regen seems fine.

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    • So this is what a Mechadragon looks like (or at least "Prototype No. 1", only about a year or two after the War of Underworld):
      Jet

      Yeah, it's basically just a jet powered by both Sacred Arts and Incarnation, lol.

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    • Are you telling me the mecahdragon is neither a mech nor even resembles a dragon

      That's it I'm forking done with SAO all y'all suck

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    • Top kek

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    • Okay, can we just talk about how that one Pulgist RIPPED HIS FORKING EYE OUT BEFORE IT COULD EXPLODE

      THAT'S MORE THAN METAL ENOUGH TO MAKE UP FOR THE LACK OF DRAGONS THAT ARE MECHS

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    • DUDE HE JUST POWER GEYSERED AN ENTIRE FIELD OF PLAYERS

      WHY IS BURCOL CONSIDERED THE CHAD HERE, THIS MAN IS LITERALLY TOO ANGRY TO DIE

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    • I should make a profile for him, lol

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    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rarYc_EcSmo

      Universal+ Kirito confirmed!

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    • Lol. Is this a crossover for a game?

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    • It's a "Special Collaboration" between SAO and Persona 5 The Royal.

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    • I mean, yeah universal for comp Kirito/game kirito

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    • I see. That's cool.

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    • So that would move, Kirito, Eugeo , Alice, Quinella, The integrity knights, and almost everyone else in underworld to rel?

      Rel kirito again but its less exciting since we have MFTL kirito now.


      On other discussion though, Eugeo might be multi solar system in the game verse since he lives this time around, star king Eugeo

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    • HyperNepsy wrote:

      On other discussion though, Eugeo might be multi solar system in the game verse since he lives this time around, star king Eugeo

      On one side, I'm happy Star King Eugeo exists. On the other, I cry he isn't canon because of the thoth ;_;

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    • the light dodge calc got accepted, time to edit

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    • Relativistic Alicization is good.

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    • well it's done now

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    • DMUA, I think that for Goddess Leafa and Sinon, the 'at least' in 'at least 6-C' is not necessary. What do you think?

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    • I think I'm going to wait till the underworld's finished so I can see what the fork I'm supposed to do about the abomination of stats they currently have

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    • What do you guys think Gabriel's abilities count as here on the wiki? I'm aware of his Intangibility, but what would his sword be? Corrosion?

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    • Even when he dies in SAO, Eugeo lives on appearing on other anime.

      Eugeo lives on

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    • He just got Isekaid

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    • Gabriel profile when?

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    • My previous question kinda got ghosted.

      I still need to know the answer to this:

      What do you guys think Gabriel's abilities count as here on the wiki? I'm aware of his Intangibility, but what would his sword be? Corrosion?

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    • Gabriel is up. Tell me what you think.

      Subtilizer (Sword Art Online)

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    • Well, think it is a bit all over the place. Made the right statistic changes.

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    • so wait

      Base Gabriel is less powerful than the version who fought Kirito, who has the actual 6-C and 4-B feats, and his first key still scales to 6-C while entirely cutting out the 4-B

      Dear lord what even is our scaling on this

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    • Base Gabriel is still comparable to the Goddesses, which Stacia-Asuna could too, shake the world, also a 6-C feat.

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    • Yeah, definitely not my best work. I kinda lazed through it.

      Thank you for the edits.

      @Psychic What are your opinions on his void blade? I have no clue what to list it as in the P&A section, so I picked the closest thing(s) it resembled.

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    • That feat is via Earth manipulation and not physical stats

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    • GGo kirito needs Plasma Manipulation, Attack Reflection, and Durability Negation as well as Immo type 2, status effect inducement, and stat amp via sword skill imitation. And Heat Manipulation

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    • Sword Skill Imitation doesn't give stat amp. Kirito's Photon Saber also doesn't negate durability. What's the status effects he induces again? The rest seem fine though.

      Also, all of the Superaccounts should honestly be 8-C+ physically, 6-C with their special abilities, just like with Asuna. They can obviously be harmed by people in the Underworld, such as Alice (though their regen is still insane), so yeah, unless otherwise proven, Superaccounts should be dialed back a bit.

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    • Added them, as well as some other skills to SAO Kirito.

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    • Anyone gonna talk about 8-C+, 6-C with powers superaccounts?

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    • I mean, it seems fine, and makes sense. Most of the Superaccounts don't have a lot of physical feats, but like you said, their regeneration is stupid crazy, which probably makes up for it.

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    • Alright, me or someone else can add it if they have the time. Just follow Stacia as the template I guess.

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    • Made the changes.

      I removed Terraria's 6-C key because she doesn't really have much feats.

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    • Hey. I saw this and wanted to see if it would look good with Kirito's page. Do you think this looks good?

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    • Soooo... Long time no see yall! It's been quite a bit more than a month.

      I'd prefer if the SAO pages stay the same format as usual, but I'm not here for that...

      I want input. In summary, a downgrade to the SAO chars' IRL selves.

      Most of them should range from 10-B (Klein, Lisbeth) to 10-A (Kirito, Asuna, Agil), with the only 9-C being Eiji. This is because nobody was really able to contest with Eiji at all, and Kirito had to beat him by essentially waiting for an opportunity to rip off the power source of his exo suit.

      I can even make a case for 10-B IRL SAO chars in-general, with the exception of maaaaybe Agil and Suguha (though this is stretching it; her skill in Kendo can be just that: skill). Kirito was only able to barely hold Suguha's "friend" back and literally anyone can dent a car door.

      If anything though, this makes Kirito's Analytical Prediction/Hypersense even better, considering he could react to Superhuman speed attacks and deflect them.

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    • My opinion, is that Kirito stays 9-C though. Another feat is that he can impale someone with an umbrella.

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    • At most I feel like that's a 10-A feat. There was no opening in Johnny Black's pants suggesting it was ripped, nor was it bleeding. Kirito just put a bunch of pressure in that area so that Johnny collapsed.

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    • RL Krito is 10-A at best.

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    • Makes sense. Since everybody in general here agrees, I think you can make the changes accordingly.

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    • I disagree cuz it's dum

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    • Why so?

      Also side note, another reason as to why Kirito was able to beat Eiji was that Eiji didn't wanna kill Kirito. Eiji wanted to bring Kirito to a low enough HP in AR or beat Kirito down enough to make him remember past trauma in SAO to extract his SAO memories.

      Baaasically he wasn't trying.

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    • DMUA wrote: I think I found a supporting feat for 9-C Kirito, don't open this if you're at work or school

      Now that you've fallen into my trap, let us begin.

      According to an intellectual, Kirito pumped around 3.65 liters of semen into Asuna in chapter 16.5.

      From Google; "Early studies confirmed human semen to have a specific gravity of between 1.020 and 1.040 [2, 14] or a density of 0.970 to 1.043 g/ml [5] suggesting that the density is close enough to 1.0 g/ml when working to one decimal place and that weight should be an accurate index of volume.", meaning that Kirito released about 3.65 Kilograms of semen.

      Now, also from the internet, "The average speed of ejaculation has been measured to be approximately 45 km/hr (just below the allowable speed limit in most suburban areas). This is the average speed of the ejected semen relative to the ejaculatory penis, and can be increased by training the Kegel muscles (by pretending to withhold your urine).", which translates to 12.5 meters per second

      So, .5×3.65×12.5^2 makes for a yield of...

      285.15625 Joules, Athlete level+

      Now, then again, this was done in VR, so it's unknown if Kirito is this powerful in real life, meaning I trolled you all and made you read a total of 4, now 5, uses of the word semen because of forking Kirito

      We still have this calc to make him 10-A+

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    • Xmark12 wrote: Why so?

      For fork's sake mark I was meming, go ahead

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    • Thouest hab no sense of humor, pardon thine transgressions.

      Gonna add in a bit then. Should Kirito be 10-B or 10-A? Or 10-B, possibly 10-A?

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    • Got the proper words for the umbrella feat:

      The shaft of the umbrella in Kazuto’s hand had stabbed into the base of Kanemoto’s right thigh.

      And the syringe in Kanemoto hand was pushed against Kazuto’s left shoulder.

      Together, their bodies separated from each other, before collapsing violently onto the road.

      The several minutes after that was unreal, like she was watching a black and white movie.

      She ran up to the side of the unmoving body of Kazuto. She pulled Kazuto off Kanemoto, who was holding his right leg in agony, “Hang in there,” she was calling as she pulled out the mobile terminal from her pocket and opened it.

      See what you guys think.

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    • Xmark12 wrote: Thouest hab no sense of humor, pardon thine transgressions.

      Gonna add in a bit then. Should Kirito be 10-B or 10-A? Or 10-B, possibly 10-A?

      He's got a 10-A+ calc, so that.

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    • that was in VR, doesn't count, and if it was IRL, his ability to punch or kick would be far greater than his Kegel muscles

      Considering it actually pierced his leg, probably 10-A, but surprisingly enough, I for one have never attempted to stab someone with an umbrella, so I don't know how hard it is

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    • Hmm, Kirito must have pretty good accuracy to do that, considering he did it with one arm. Plus I'm assuming the umbrella was blunt too.

      I'd say 10-A is fine, albeit definitely baseline. Those who scale would likely be Asuna, Agil, and Suguha.

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    • Done, and finally included that VR Avatars have infinite stamina physically, but still have the same mental stamina as they do their real selves.

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    • At first I thought that was a reference to something in SAO but nope just more crossover memes

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    • I mean, he literally looks like a shorter Seiya.

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    • I like Kirito's armour, and he indeed looks like the guy from Shinchou Yuusha.

      Unital Ring was the final arc, right?

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    • Yep. No more SAO from Kawahara after that. I think I recall him wanting to move onto the Yuri genre.

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    • Kuroiha wrote: I think I recall him wanting to move onto the Yuri genre.

      That is a very sudden and jaring turn but I am also incredibly intrigued at what comes of this

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    • DMUA wrote:

      I have a feeling it'll be Mothers Rosario, except he'll take the extra step he didn't before.

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    • Mother's Rosario could be great if you cut out the super aids or whatever the fork caused a japanese hospital to get an entire family infected with an easily detectable virus and added some extra gay

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    • Probably Mother's Rosario, if Yuuki actually went ahead with her suggestion of marrying Asuna to become Yuuki Yuuki.

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    • Gemmysaur wrote: Probably Mother's Rosario, if Yuuki actually went ahead with her suggestion of marrying Asuna to become Yuuki Yuuki.

      I almost died.

      Seems a tad bit too convenient to just be a coincidence, don't you think? Maybe Kawahara was secretly setting up the fanfics?

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    • Warning: Spoilers about as large as the observable universe ahead for Unital Ring.

      The cover for volume 24 has released.

      Outline linked here.

      Seems like we're diving back into UW again. Also, the first main antagonist of UR will appear in Volume 24.

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    • So... he's got a gundam pilot on his side now?

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    • Pretty much.

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    • huh,interesting dissusion. Can Tatsuya Shiba beat Kirito? I mean his star king form.

      This comes from the offical poll.

      Ac8e5e36acaf2edd7ac5e5b89a1001e939019337
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    • Does Kirito even have resistance to being conceptually broken down? Isn't that what Tatsuya's power is? Deleting the data in the information dimension and it affecting reality?

      That said, Kirito will blitz.

      Who's the other guy though?

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    • probably Arnos Voldigod 

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    • First time I'd heard of that character. Have some new reading content now. Thanks.

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    • Our Tatsuya profile is really bad, so no idea about him. Arnos looks insanely haxed tho.

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    • yeah arnos is hilariously haxxed that's why i started reading the manga in the first place

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    • Haha. Dude's P&A list takes up half the entire page.

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    • Honestly, I think the SAO profiles are a bit outdated too. I even discussed a few changes I'd like to see on each of the profiles on Discord. Here's a summary of what I think should be changed (some miiiight be a bit controversial):

      General: All travel speed feats should have the specification that they're in bursts, since it's stated that it's difficult to turn once you're at full speed, requiring Outside System Skills or actual Skills such as wall running to maneuver around.

      • GGO and Alicization characters are an exception to this.

      SAO Avatars: No real changes, just maybe the high tiers are lower on the At least High 8-C scale than before, considering GeoCrawler would be stronger than any one person combined at the time.

      ALO Avatars: 

      • AP/Dura: Change to Building level rather than Large Building level. Despite New Aincrad monsters being stronger than before, that's only cause of magic increasing variety. They wouldn't be massively stronger than their SAO counterparts, and remember they only reached High 8-C on floor 56, whereas currently they're only around ~floor 30.

      GGO Avatars: Now this one will be the most controversial. I'm going to say now, even if stats "transfer" between avatars, that does not mean feats will automatically transfer over as well. These worlds are still separate worlds governed by their own separate gameplay mechanics after-all. One Roblox game feat wouldn't transfer to another Roblox game feat for example.

      • AP: Change to Street level physically (via being able to tank a few bullet shots before going down, though taking a fatal wound from one will still kill), 9-C to 9-B with different weapons (weapons and explosives in real life are around this level). A photon sword can ignore durability up to 9-A, as it can easily go through small building-sized monsters (though not kill them). In the LN, the photon sword didn't struggle at all to cut Death Gun. The anime just made it struggle for cool effect, as in all the other times a photon sword cuts through someone, they're instantly cleaved in half.
      • Dura: 9-C physically, higher with armor (bullet proof equipment), 9-A with starship material (can withstand blows from a photon sword)
      • Speed: Peak Human to Subsonic travel speed (LLENN can travel faster than a car, but that's only because she's an AGI-type. Everyone else runs around normally. People from the military use GGO as a realistic combat sim after-all, there'd have to be some sort of realism to it), Hypersonic+ reaction speed (Kirito and LLENN's deflecting/dodging feats are on this level)

      Alicization (Middle/War of Underworld): I'm putting this here first so the scaling to Early Alicization makes sense.

      • AP/Dura: 8-C+ physically (via Kirito temporarily halting the flame bow's Enhance Armament, however he's overwhelmed in the end), At least 8-C+ (possibly High 8-C) with Enhance Armament (via all of the feats they demonstrate, specifically the flame bow and Fanatio's light beam), 8-A with Release Recollection (via all of the feats they demonstrate, mostly from Kirito)
      • Speed: Superhuman (Kirito and Eugeo via downscaling from Integrity Knights) to Subsonic travel speed (via Alice moving FTE, and the Integrity Knights would be comparable to her), Relativistic reaction speed (via dodging light)

      Alicization (Early):

      • AP/Dura: 8-C (via downscaling from later feats)
      • Speed: Superhuman travel speed (via downscaling from later feats), Relativistic reaction speed (via downscaling from later feats). I don't even know if they should even have Relativistic reaction speed at this point, considering they haven't leveled up by this point, and most Integrity Knights speed blitz most of their enemies in War of Underworld. They're stated to be one man armies comparable to hundreds of men after-all.

      Anyways, that's pretty much it. Some of my suggestions might be controversial, but ey. It is what it is.

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    • That should be on a CRT, not in the discussion thread. We can't change the stats without a CRT.

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    • I know, but isn't everything on lockdown right now? I don't think I can make a CRT yet.

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    • Yeah, and no CRT = no changes, so save that for after the forum move.

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    • Any idea when the forum move is gonna finish? And do you have a link to where I can see where the new forums are?

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    • Only a few staff can access the new forum since the invitations haven't been send yet. No one knows when it'll happen, but many say somewhere in July.

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    • Hopefully that's when. Though we can still have discussions on characters' powers.

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    • The link is actually just vsbattles.com, as Antvasima has told us, but it's currently password-locked.

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    • So, even if CRT's aren't available right now, I'm going to post it anyways later on when they're available again. But for now, what does everyone think?

      Side note, but I came up with another scale for SAO characters. Since it still takes 3 days to complete the martial arts quest, apparently the giant floor 2 monsters are only 16 feet tall at max, and the Bullbous Bow (the field boss) tops out at 9-B via DMUA's calc, here's the new scale:

      • Floor 1: 9-C (Fighting animals on this level)
      • Floor 2: 9-C to 9-B (via the boulder breaking feat and Bullbous Bow's AP)
      • Floor 3-10: 9-B, possibly 9-A by Floor 10 (Every 10 Floors gives a pretty decent increase in difficulty, likely enough for this to happen)
      • Floor 11-24: 9-A
      • Floor 25-55: 8-C (via the Floor 25 boss being massively stronger than even a 10 Floor boost)
      • Floor 56-99: High 8-C (via being able to harm the GeoCrawler. Everyone wouldn't even be that far behind, considering it usually only takes a 6-man party to slay a Field Boss, and it's pretty easy to stab into GeoCrawler's underside once it's flipped over)
      • Floor 100: 8-B (via An Incarnation of the Radius being this level)
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    • Most of it seems good for now. I'm a little uncertain of the speed ratings but they can be discussed post-forum transfer.

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    • 9-A definitely is not something you can get from upscaling from a feat not that high up wall level

      just gotta sit back with the very inordinately long scaling chain

      Also Floor 1 should be 9-B and Class 50 because Gergy was able to catch a collapsing mineshaft

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    • So DMUA calculated a feat that shows the boss of Floor 5 gives 9-A AP, so we can scale off of that. Also, I decided Alicization characters should physically be tier 10 to 9, since nobody actually tanks a direct hit from an Enhance Armament. It's either combated by another Enhance Armament, not at full strength/not meant to kill, or blocked by a weapon/ability that is meant to counter these attacks (Divine Objects being 8-C+ in Durability and Spinning Shield). With that all in-mind, I've revised Kirito's profile in a Sandbox if anyone wants to see here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Xmark12/Kirito

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    • actually the logarithmic scale part causes issues with the earthquake calc, I'm still waiting for how that ends

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    • I think Incarnation is above 9-B. I think when Kirito finally landed a shot on Quinella, the whole floor around them exploded or something. The Sword Golem is also rather huge.

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    • Should I also mention how Quinella broke Eugeo's giant Sword Form with her regular strikes?

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    • Gonna need a calc for the explosion thing. The Sword Golem also seems to not be as big as the floor 2 bosses, who were up to 5 meters tall, and they were calc'd by DMUA to be 9-C (if they didn't scale to Bullbous Bow, who's 9-B). Eugeo's Sword Form also would scale to the Sword Golem, whose feats have only shown to be a higher-end of 9-B compared to the rest. Possibly the Sword Golem can be 8-C+ or even 8-A in Durability scaling to Enhance Armaments/Release Recollections if it was supposed to be Quinella's "ultimate plan to win War of Underworld", so maybe it has that going for it.

      Edit: Eugeo's Sword Form hit the crystal, which would definitely be much weaker than the actual metal. His Durability may still be 8-C+/8-A though. Administrator used some kind of Sacred Art though to break Eugeo's Sword Form.

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    • I finally updated the thread OP comment. Enjoy!

      Also Bercouli gets a new time reversal ability, neat.

      Edit: I also updated Asuna's page here

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    • Haven't seen the latest episode, waiting for them to pile up.

      Funny how the opening spoils a good portion of the actual anime.

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    • Kuroiha wrote: Funny how the opening spoils a good portion of the actual anime.

      Isn't that normal?

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    • Eh, depends. It's probably because I've read through the LN and am noticing it, but it spoils a lot alongside how Kirito wakes up and him going full incarnation-frenzied on Gabriel.

      I haven't really noticed too many spoilers in openings from other shows I've watched either, so maybe that's why.

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    • I think I just watched something gross yet super exciting for the latest anime episode. Anyone into that topic? (And that being spoken, to which area can we talk about that?)

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    • You mean the Leafa scene that was grossly overexaggerated for the anime or another scene?

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    • while i need some catching up to do i feel the necessity post this here
      Ec7ds20WsAEq6Ht
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    • Xmark12 wrote:

      You mean the Leafa scene that was grossly overexaggerated for the anime or another scene?

      This

      Do we have a profile for that tentacle user?

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    • We have nothing for DIL yet.

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    • Okay so finally watching the new episode, I know I made the NTR is true love joke but

      Dear lord do Asuna just sit there and let Sinon straight up kiss Kirito

      I mean it was on the cheek but like, that and the hug were a bit much for friendship

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    • OH MY LORD THE LEAFA SCENE

      I honestly died laughing the second they used the weird tentacle leech things. Like... Really?

      What makes it even better is that the pig guy just looks like "look I just saw my wife get sacrificed, I'm really not in the mood for this"

      AND THE COMMANDER CHICK ASKS HIM TO STRIP NAKED

      WHY

      WHO IN A1 THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA, AT ALL

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    • <A1

      <Good Idea

      They don't belong in the same sentence

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    • Lovely series.

      SAO is a masterpiece

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    • Oh god why did I look this up

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