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  • And I, to support the Chozo's marital strength, made the Power Suit. In other words, I gave birth to you!

    Gonna need this for Mother Brain's context: https://metroid.retropixel.net/features/comics/metroidmanga/

    • Mother Brain: Should obtain all the abilities of MB (Is the superior original of MB). Should gain Fusionism (Can merge with her body in Super Metroid), Immortality (Type 1 and 4, via her age and the ability to apparently resurrect in Super Metroid), Extrasensory Perception with Planetary+ range (Was able to detect something coming into orbit in the manga's fifth chapter, page 18.), removal of Regeneration for shields (Replacing it with Teleportation/Matter Manipulation via Matter Transference as depicted in the manga's seventh chapter, page 18. Literally replaces the lost shield parts molecule by molecule), Information Analysis with Interstellar range (Routinely analyzed SR-388's condition in the manga, depicted chapter 2 page 16), Self-Information Manipulation (Altered her very 'code' in order to be able to add the derective to take over the very universe, in the second volume, chapter 11 page 15).
      • Feats Additions:
        • Created the original Power Suit for Samus Aran, an almost universally modular suit that combined both biotechnology and Chozo Magic. (Intellect feat)
        • Determined that the pirates had been genetically programmed to follow a strong leader and took control of the entirety of the Space Pirates organization the literal moment they had arrived on Zebes. (Intellect feat)
        • Was the 'center point' of the entire Chozo civilization for a century, in other words she analyzed and determined the most efficient methods for dealing with nearly everything for their race. (Intellect feat)
          • Would have eventually done so for the entire Milky Way Galaxy had she not gone evil.
    • Ing: Passive Corrosion Inducement as Ing Storm (Can corrode even the strongest alloys with energy they emit, even more so than the atmosphere itself. Killed 2 family Luminoth.)
    • Luminoth: Telekinesis, Clairvoyance, Forcefield Creation, Planetary Range with several abilities. U-Mos (The only active luminoth at the time) is significantly implied to be able to create telekinetic barriers across planet Aether. Immortality (Type 1, U-Mos has lived for 2.15 centicycles or about 645 years [A normal cycle is stated to be about 3 Earth years]), Resistance to Phazon (Can survive the air of Dark Aether for slightly extended periods, can increase their resistance with the light of Aether or the Dark Suit), Energy Manipulation (In the logbook, they were stated to have been augmented to have the ability to manipulate and generate energy, equal to the Chozo... speaking of which:
    • Chozo: Energy Manipulation (Apparently have that ability.), Planet level and Massively FTL+ (Described to be equals to the Luminoth, given that U-Mos is an elite member of their race this means that the average Chozo in their prime is pretty strong all in all.) with and without technology, also rename their first key to Composite Modern Chozo since the current name is kinda misleading. Finally, a key for the Tallon Chozo (Pre-Meteor Strike Lore), which I'm still working on to be honest. All I know is that they can see all of time and space, have ascended outside time and space, and no longer have tangible bodies. Seems like it will be a very Unknown key.

    Oh yeah, Samus and Joey might get a volume collection for the last arc (EX), so uh, seems like Nintendo might actually care ;_;.

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    • Holy hot damn! This is good. And Omnipresent wide precognition for Tallon Chozo?

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    • Not sure if that's a thing. That stuff will probably have to be discussed as I find more info.

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    • Just quoting you, "can see all time and space". It is what characters like Zanza has; where he sees the past, present, and future on an omnipresent scale. I think another term was Cosmic Awareness.

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    • I was refering to "Omnipresent wide precognition". Yeah, the can see all time and space is just cosmic awareness.

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    • Also, I think Mother Brain should receive an Intelligence to Extraordinary Genius. She is one OP Supercomputer among other things listed above, and I believe that could in turn scale to characters like Samus.

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    • Bump

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    • I agree with all of this, but have two questions for clarification.

      1) (In regards to Mother Brain) "Was the 'center point' of the entire Chozo civilization for a century, in other words she analyzed and determined the most efficient methods for dealing with nearly everything for their race. (Intellect feat)"

      "Would have eventually done so for the entire Milky Way Galaxy had she not gone evil."

      First, where was it shown that Mother Brain was the center point of the Chozo civilization for over a century? I haven't read the backstory manga in a long while so I've probably forgotten some things.

      Last, from my understanding Mother Brain was supposed to be limited to being a caretaker/overseer of Zebes and not the entire Milky Way. Besides, didn't Mother Brain rebel because Samus was chosen to be the Chozo's progeny while Mother Brain herself was going to be limited to Zebes/wasn't even considered for the position? From what I remember Mother Brain's role was to oversee Zebes and was never planned to go beyond that, so jealousy over Samus helped drive Mother Brain to rebel and side with the Space Pirates, unless I missed something.

      2) "A normal cycle is stated to be about 3 Earth years."

      Where was that stated? I don't remember the length of a cycle ever being listed anywhere. If several years are able to pass in one year of the Cosmic Calender, it would make sense why Zero Mission and most of the Prime series seem to take place in the year 20X5 while Federation Force and beyond seem to take place in 20X6. the timeline has always been weird so this in't the place to discuss that though.

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    • She scales from the abilities MD from Other M did; as she's still a far more advanced computer than MD. MD was just a cheap knock off of the real Mother Brain, but still has neat abilities.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote:
      She scales from the abilities MD from Other M did; as she's still a far more advanced computer than MD. MD was just a cheap knock off of the real Mother Brain, but still has neat abilities.

      ^What is this referring to? My questions were about being reminded of lore stuff.

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    • SD probably has more information, but being intended to just be limited to Zebes doesn't mean she's incapable of finding ways to reach areas outside of Zebes. Otherwise, she never would have found a way to conquer the galaxy.

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    • 1. I don't have the exact scan on me, I'll provide it when I get back to my laptop

      2. In a MP2 Q and A, I'll also provide it eventually

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: SD probably has more information, but being intended to just be limited to Zebes doesn't mean she's incapable of finding ways to reach areas outside of Zebes. Otherwise, she never would have found a way to conquer the galaxy.

      Ah, I understand. How SD worded the original thread made me think that it insinuated that Mother Brain is the center of the Chozo Civilization and was intended to go beyond that. Just a communication error I guess.

      SomebodyData wrote: 2. In a MP2 Q and A, I'll also provide it eventually

      I think I remember the Q&A you're talking about, is it this one: https://shinesparkers.net/features/metroid-prime-2-dark-echoes-qa/.

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    • By the way, Speed Echoes was mentioned a while back. I know I joked about Immeasurable speed, but it sounds like Duplication; when she crashes with speed booster, the after images start to behave like intangible homing attacks. And then surpass even the Screwattack as the most damaging attack in the game.

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    • It sounds more like afterimages that can damage you rather than duplication tbh

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    • True, that's literally what they are. But the problem is that afterimages don't normally attack and these ones definitely do; so it's more than just afterimage creation.

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    • Solid Afterimages perhaps? (Rare but still a thing)

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    • They're not really solid either; they do phase through walls and such. But they still attack and do massive damage.

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    • Special Afterimages theeeeeeen

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    • Bump

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    • this seems alright

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    • Do we still need more input? And how's the Tallon Chozo research coming along?

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    • I'll probably continue that when I'm done updating the PMMM stuffs.

      Well we have the input of 3 members, would prefer at least one more.

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    • We could ask Wok about giving his two cents. He did mention that he played some Metroid games in the past so he might be knowledgeable enough

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    • If you wanna leave a message on his wall to ask, go ahead.

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    • I know OP doesn't count, but there was input from me, Glass, and Hunter. But Cal's input would also be helpful; and Wok would also be good. And I think Prom has sometimes commented on Metroid threads but she's probably busy.

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    • If I don't mention something I think its fine

      Mother Brain

      • I don't think hundreds of years on its own gives you type 1 immortality, it'd default to Longevity.
      • Wouldn't replacing shields molecule by molecule still constitute High regen?
      • Extraordinary Genius seems fine, with feats being listed. Could also use info analysis feats to support this.
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      • Alright, that works with me.
      • It could also be noted as "Teleportation/Matter Manipulation via Matter Transference (When damaged, the lost shield parts are replaced molecule by molecule, essentially functioning as High Regeneration)" to give a fuller picture.
      • Okk
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    • Sure. Edit away

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    • Looks great for Mother Brain's additions! Although, we don't use "+" signs for range ratings iirc. So instead of planetary+ it should say at least planetary or something.

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    • Probably still long awaited WIP, but bump.

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    • Forgot to edit the Luminoth page, though the Chozo one really is a long way away.

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    • Ah I see, especially the Tallon IV versions.

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    • How's the Chozo research coming along?

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    • PMMM revisions > PMMM & Metroid Profile Creation > Chozo Research

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    • You bastard. I thought you cared about Metroid.

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    • That's in order of when I'm doing everything, not importance

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    • Well, you better hurry it up or else you'll get spammed with memes like this Okay, no problem, just keeping the thread alive.

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    • I have a question about Ridley

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    • What question?

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    • Would he have some manner of empathic manipulation, considering the fact that his voice was stated in Other M to cause other creatures to become more ferocious and unhinged? As well as possibly having martial arts listed due to having comparable combat skill to Samus?

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    • I agree with Martial Arts given he's a hand to hand combat genius, but not sure about Empathic Manipulation and sounds a little iffy. Prefer to hear SD's thoughts on that though.

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    • Alright. I'm currently playing Other M and his voice doing the thing is a pretty big plot point. Also plenty of skill and intellect feats too.

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    • >Seeing all of time and space and ascending beyond it

      Uhh, isn't that just straight-up Universe+

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    • Not necessarily, no.

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    • Ascending Outside Space-Time =/= Existing on a plane of higher infinity above it. It's just advanced Cosmic Awareness + At least Type 2 Acausality.

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    • how is that type 2 acausality? Type 2 acausal just makes you a singularity in a point and time.

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    • Edited, At least Type 2. If you exist outside of time and space, someone wouldn't be able to see and/or manipulate your future unless they have an the ability to see non existing things. But it doesn't quite sound like type 3 and type 4 I thought needed context.

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    • existing outside of time and space doesn't give any form of acausality. That's like an immeasurable feat at best. And type 2 again, you exist in the present, not the past or future, that has nothing to do with time and space.

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    • Theglassman12 wrote:
      existing outside of time and space doesn't give any form of acausality. That's like an immeasurable feat at best. And type 2 again, you exist in the present, not the past or future, that has nothing to do with time and space.

      Immeasurable samus for scaling off chozo ghosts ovo

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    • You would need to exist in Space-Time for Fate or Causality manipulation to affect you to begin with is the problem.

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    • Space and Time is NOT the same as Fate and Causality dude.

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    • Never said it was, but the fact is; time is required to exist for Fate or Causality to exist. That's the definition of Causality; an event happening in the past that effects the future.

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    • If that was seriously how we rate Acausality, then we'd have a LOT more characters being type 2 than normal, which isn't the case cause Cause and Effect have nothing to do with space and time, nor does Fate.

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    • Acausility Type 1 means you don't exist in the past, Type 2 means you don't exist in the past or the future. Existing completely outside of Time and Space literally means you don't exist Past, Present, or Future. Also, need better examples rather than just a simple "A whole lot more characters would have that". I don't need to explain what past, present, or future mean.

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    • That's NOT what type 1 acausality means. It means you're unaffected by time paradoxes

      No it doesn't. You're just not confined to time and space, which again is where a lot of characters have Immeasurable speeds to begin with, this barely has connection to acausality.

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    • I wouldn't use Other M stuff unless its stated or has some similar aspects in other parts of the series.

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    • Other M is explicitly canon (however much I hate its story and want it to be remade), the only thing people nigh-universally disregard is the characterization of Samus and Adam due to how much it contradicts their previous portrayals.

      Luckily Ridley is cool as always in it, and it does give him some new abilities and weaknesses that hadn't been seen elsewhere in the series.

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    • Other M is basically full of PIS, but there are indeed some useful abilities introduced. And really the main good thing that came out of it was confirmation that Samus and Joey is canon. As well as S&J of course having the true badass character that is Samus; In terms of personality, the main character of Other M looks more like some imposter that wants to be Samus and that Samus doesn't actually appear in that game.

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    • The issue is that outside of just the characterisation, it creates some pretty massive contradictions with the abilities and worldbuilding (moreso than the story, which I feel is a tad exagerated).

      Hence why I mentioned we only add abilities sparringly.

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    • Such as what? I can't think of any major contradictions.

      The story is mostly just bland and wasted more than outright bad. The only things that are actively bad are Samus's weaker personality and Adam's character. Anthony and Ridley are great.

      And the missile system. That's also bad.

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    • I remember one of the scenes mentioned how it was her FIRST mission with the military since she was a freelance bounty hunter, which is bullshit as she worked for the military back in Metroid Prime 3

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    • When was that said? I only remember her saying it was the first time she'd seen Anthony and Adam since then

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    • Nah I also remember her saying what Glass mentioned.

      Adam being able to one-shot Samus comes to mind as another contradiction, the Space Pirates are feral without Mother Brain (Makes Metroid Zero Mission all the way to Super Metroid impossible), Ridley having limited Animal Manip / Empathic Manip (Cough cough Samus Returns), probably a few more that I can't remember.

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    • Creaturemaster971 wrote: When was that said? I only remember her saying it was the first time she'd seen Anthony and Adam since then

      It was around when she got taken in by Adam and I think when the obvious traitor was like.... hacking the system or some crap. I remember it cause someone made a Plinkett review of Other M And constantly brought that line she said as like the biggest contradiction in the game.

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    • Yeah, a lot of plot holes. And Phantoon being an "upper-dimensional deity" is another thing that's inconsistent. And also sounds hyperbolic unless it can be proven the same boat as the Tallon IV Chozo.

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    • wasn't mother brain around for zero mission through super? how are they being feral without her a problem? And in Fusion, they were technically x parasites.

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    • Funnily enough in the Other M Japanese Stategy Guide their exists a timeline of the games that still has the Prime games as canon despite lines in Other M contradicting that

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    • @Zephyros, in the canon manga; the Space Pirates were consistently shown to be quite intelligent with or without Mother Brain's guidance. Plus, if they were actually feral, then Mother Brain would have had galaxy wide mind manipulation which would in turn scale to Samus' resistance to mind manipulation. Also, there is a Nintendo Power page confirming the Prime games as being canon and it was released the same time Other M came out.

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    • No, she was around untill about 4/5 of the game, the last 1/5 she is dead and is also the first time in the game where space pirates are around. She was resurrected in Super Metroid, but several games (Prime trilogy and spin-offs, Samus Returns, occur during this time.)

      Them being feral means they can't be, you know. Intellgent? A Space Pirate force gone feral would result in their immediate destruction as a group. Not to mention like shown above, they showed intellect in the games that take place between her death and resurrection.

      The Metroid manga also reveals that Mother Brain only began to led them recently.

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    • I believe that Samus saying that the Space Pirates are feral was because she was referring specifically to the Space Pirates on the Bottle Ship that were not only raised without any sort of education but also had very extensive cybernetic modification, which probably didn't help with their sanity. 

      Quote from the game's transcript: "Say that the Zebesians, under Ridley's influence, became super-aggressive... Would that really lead to the resurrection of the Space Pirates? Without a malicious force to lead them down that path, wouldn't they continue to merely follow their instincts, ultimately becoming no more than a swarm of feral creatures?"

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    • I gotcha, i gotcha

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    • That sounds like an statement aimed at Space Pirates in general rather than the small amounts of them on the Bottle Ship.

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    • I feel like a group of creatures can be sentient, but still feral. Like they'd just be a horde of barbarians, rather than an organized criminal group unless they had Mother Brain leading them, especially since the quote implies that, like the other creatures on the ship, they'd only be that aggressive because of Ridley.

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    • Feral implies that they become mindless beasts; which they clearly aren't. Space Pirates and Zebesians have always been quite smart.

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    • Evem if that's the case, it still feels to me like the quote is specifically referring to the Bottle Ship Zebesians, which wouldn't have been anything more than animals due to being cloned, tampered with, and raised as mindless bioweapons.

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    • That was a pretty general statement, the only evidence against it would be the Smash Bros Trophy from what I can find. Which needless to say is non-canon (Also lol at the idea that Metroid Prime and Dark Samus are two seperate individuals according to Smash). 

      Not to mention, the Bottle Ship Zebesians were explicitly made to be black-ops agents, which is the exact opposite of what a feral group of pirates would be able to do.

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    • They were made to be general bioweapons, like the Metroids were, and were probably just intended to be dropped in where they'd kill everything in sight. And that quote is specifically referring to the abnormally aggressive Zebesians that Samus had just killed.

      I would say that she's implying that on their own, the Zebesians are just like any other species of sentient life, when under Ridley's influence they become more aggressive (or feral in the case of the tampered Bottle Ship specimens), and under the guidance of a malevolent leader like MB they become more organized and much more dangerous.

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    • The Metroids were actually going to be controlled by MB if I remember correctly, not sure if that's a good example. And the Pirates were explicitly stated to be for a Special Forces modeled after the original Space Pirates.

      Not to mention Ridley never had such influence in the manga or other lifeforms anyways, and Other M later then says it was actually MB.

      Because apparently Samus doesn't know Ridley's abilities at that point.

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    • How does that affect me using Metroids as an example? And the fact that they were going to be a special forces necessitated the creation of MB. It makes more sense to create a less intelligent, but more obedient version of the creature you're trying to mind control.

      Samus has only ever fought Ridley when other fighting was happening, so there wouldn't have been much outright evidence that he's increasing everything's aggression.

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    • It does make more sense... but they still created MB. Not to mention, that's speculation.

      What do you mean?

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    • I mean it makes sense that she wouldn't have prior knowledge of his abilities if she never had an opportunity to see him make otherwise passive entities more aggressive

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    • I'll also might get to Animus upgrades given the in depth lore mentioned by the Tallon IV Chozo. But at the very least, Samus' White Hole ability should get a slight upgrade at least.

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    • @DDM Que?

      @Creature Metroid Prime, Metroid Manga, Metroid S&J (Via Greed), and Samus Returns would like to have a word with you.

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    • For one, seems weird the White Hole was lowballed at 3-B+ when the Black hole it undid was about to destroy the Universe. So it sounds like it should at least be 3-A, same as Animus. Around the similar stuff that Amon and Omega have.

      Though, there's a debate about the Universe's size; as the Tallon IV Chozo claim it's Infinite. And given they're the ascended deities who would know more than anyone about the size and also have no reason not to lie, High 3-A might be legit. It even says Infinite as opposed to Innumerable, endless or other vague comparable words. But I think it's safe to say it's much larger than the Observable Universe. So there's not reason for the White Hole to be any lower than 3-A regardless.

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    • A FANDOM user
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