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  • Welp people said it might be worth a shot so why not, let's hope it doesn't diverge into a massive war.

    The resilient boi : 2

    vs: 1

    The Spearlord himself / Reinhard Throws His Meme : 1

    Speed Equal

    5-B Rein. Material Limbo (Obviously with full equipment)

    Otherwise SBA.

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    • Oof

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    • Ugh at least it won't be a passive stomp ....

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    • >Not in Fun and Game

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    • LightSShinning wrote:
      >No in Fun and Game

      It doesn't need to be, i just hope this ends well.

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    • So uhh

      The longinus hit true marie by hitting Ren's relic so im pretty sure spearing limbo will hit the operator

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      So uhh

      The longinus hit true marie by hitting Ren's relic so im pretty sure spearing limbo will hit the operator

      Ren's Relic was still a fragment of Marie or sth like that no? I mean the relic was linked to Marie, in some way. The warframe is not, it's like saying reinhard spearing a car will kill his owner (who's not inside the car).

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    • The relic was very loosely connected to her but the true marie existed on the twilight beach outside of the throne's influence 



      The warframe is connected to the operator in that they operator controls it which should be enough

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    • Well that's like an "existencial" link if you can call it that. As in the link is part of marie or originated from her. 

      The Operator and Limbo are completely different. They didn't originate from the same place and are like...barely connected at all. Again i don't think Reinhard has ever killed anything linked in this way. So spear doesn't work.

      (Can't believe there would ever come a day when the spear wouldn't work on someone, geez)

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    • Also either way limbo has 0 way to put Reinhard down thanks to his double type 8

      He also can't reach Reinhard once he summons Gladsheim which is his first move so here's how the fight goes

      Rein summons gladsheim

      Rein spears limbo and kills the operator through him

      Or

      Rein spears limbo and turns him into part of his legion and eventually spears the operator anyway

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    • Has no way to put reinhard down. The double type 8 only saves him from death. There are still tons of ways for Limbo to win. I mean his arsenal has more non lethal ways rather than lethal ways to end a fight.

      Limbo would be able to point and freeze Rein in the rift before he can do anything, not to mention stuff like invisibility works (Reinhard's ESP is useless here as limbo lacks mind and soul). 

      Rein won't kill the operator through Limbo, no case of that happening with connections as weak as those.

      And Limbo's win con would be way faster than Reinhard's glads. Not to mention that the 1st move in character is the spearing IIRC, that's what used in bazillions of battles. So Limbo will also have tactical advantage if he opens up with that. 

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    • Glads is thought based though so nothing limbo does is faster

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Glads is thought based though so nothing limbo does is faster

      It's not what Rein opens up with though. In almost every reinhard thread the 1st move is throws his spear. 

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: It's not what Rein opens up with though. In almost every reinhard thread the 1st move is throws his spear. 

      W0t? Seriously, what?

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    • Reinhard throws his spear has been the goto move for in character reinhard. 

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    • Throws his spear is a meme

      He literally only uses it if he thinks you are a worthy opponent or the fight is boring he never starts with it

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    • Hmm imma wait for more knowledgable people then. This might end up as inconc. But i believe Limbo still has quite a fair chance.  

      Though killing the first Limbo should be enough for Reinhard to remove the Glads, he does that, 2nd limbo just snipe freezes him in the rift. I mean Reinhard wouldn't keep Glads up for no reason if his opponent is dead. That would give clone limbo a chance to win the fight. 

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    • Rein has no reason to leave glads once he enters

      Glads is his castle and allows him to teleport anywhere since it is detached from the world of foreknowledge

      Rein is also resistant to special and temporal manipulation and he can turn himself invisible

      And would void energy equate to magic?

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    • In character, Reinhard leads with Glads, not his spear. The spear thing is a meme.

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    • Yes he does, the fight is over, there is no reason for Reinhard to stay there for the rest of his life, if that were what he does Glads would be passive not something he summons.

      Well he resisted hax from Ren, but Ren directly affects time, whereas Limbo will just freeze him rather than freeze time itself. There is a reason it's not flat time stop.

      Nope, not by a long shot. It wouldn't even equate to stuff like Chi or Chakra (since it's not sth beings should possess at all). I don't think void energy would equate to anything via verse equalization, the way it works, what it is and what it does seem to be REALLY specific.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: Yes he does, the fight is over, there is no reason for Reinhard to stay there for the rest of his life, if that were what he does Glads would be passive not something he summons.

      Well he resisted hax from Ren, but Ren directly affects time, whereas Limbo will just freeze him rather than freeze time itself. There is a reason it's not flat time stop.

      Nope, not by a long shot. It wouldn't even equate to stuff like Chi or Chakra (since it's not sth beings should possess at all). I don't think void energy would equate to anything via verse equalization, the way it works, what it is and what it does seem to be REALLY specific.

      1. It's literally his castle he kinda lives there so no he dosen't have a reason to leave

      2.He also resists spacial manipulation

      3.I still feel attacks using it could be considered magical via verse equalization and nulled by Rein but meh

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    • Ok so, I have been told by both Monarch and Warron that Reins opening move is to use Glad.

      Once Rein enters Glad Limbo can due nothing outside being hit by LLT which either perma kills him or turns him into part of Reins legion.

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    • 1. Again if he keeps it on for eternity and never takes it back why is not passive for him like LLT is? The fact that he's not constantly in glads gives Limbo a chance to snipe.

      2. Special manipulation? What the hell is that?

      3. Nah, not magic. 

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    • Yeah Glads is op.

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    • Actually iirc in one of the fights he activated it and left it out for like months or something like that.

      And if he just turns Limbo into part of his legion the fights over.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: 1. Again if he keeps it on for eternity and never takes it back why is not passive for him like LLT is? The fact that he's not constantly in glads gives Limbo a chance to snipe.

      2. Special manipulation? What the hell is that?

      3. Nah, not magic. 

      1. Llt has passive hax and is in his hands at the start of the fight

      Glads is thought based and his first action so he hops in glads and spears then never has to leave since either the operator dies via being connected to limbo or limbo is part of the legion, in either case he considers the fight done and lives his life so limbo has no chance to snipe

      2.Manipulating space which is how limbo freezes targets in the rift

      3.Well it doesn't matter in the end since limbo can't reach rein

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    • 1. I know. My question is if he is just full time in glads why is glads not standard equipment like llt is. Why doesn't he start in glads of is in character for him to spend eternity there.

      2. That's spatial not special xD. But i don't know limbo freezing the dimension is spatial manip.

      I can't see this going worse than inconc. Considering absorbing limbo is useless as he won't be able to move or act without his own operator, limbo still has his other hax like deconstruction and absorption or info manip rein has no answer to. Not to mention that rein can accept limbo into glads and fight him there, which I'm tempted to say will be a win for limbo. Not to mention the time travel and don't forget the operator can always BP rein to make spear useless and make him unable to summon or hop on to glads.

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    • Rein can and will just keep Glad out.

      Rein can just drop Limbo into nowhere and if the operator gets involved its outside help just like with Cain and Presence,

      and so far you havnt countered Limbo simply becoming apart of Reins legion which btw gives Rein all of Limbos powers.

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    • Ok, limbo can still get inside glads. It's normal for rein to accept people into glads.

      Not in this case. No. Because the wf-op link is pretty special. As neither can function without the other. They always fight together, they exist to fight together. The same as the duo characters we have. So, no, it's not outside help, since operator is the only enemy to being with, he's the only one fighting rein.

      Being a part of his legion will not be good enough, as limbo himself is just a robot, he does not posses that many abilities. He only works because op is giving him void energy. When limbo becomes part of the legion he'll turn back to being a lifeless robot that can't move, think or act at all. And rein will not get any powers as limbo is just a medium for the operator's void manip. So rein can't use any abilities if he doesn't posses void energy, which he doesn't.

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    • Rein only let's certain people into glads

      If he spears limbo he wouldn't let him in afterwords

      I still feel like the fact that there is a wf op link would allow llt to affect the OP through limbo

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    • If Limbo just becomes a lifeless robot then Reinhard wins.

      And Rein lets people in when he thinks they are worthy he wont just insta let someone in.

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    • Hmm why wouldn't he let limbo?

      Invis and lack of soul will make it impossible for rein to spear him. Can't hit sth you cannot see or sense.

      The link is just use though. Llt erases stuff on every level. But the wf is not connected to the op at all. He's just being used by the op. Or being fuelled. There is nothing to suggest llt can kill through links like that, then again invis will make the spear useless.

      And do not forget body puppetry, time travel and the other stuff I mentioned I really don't see the spear getting a chance here. Glads might be stopped as well either by bp or by time travel.

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    • Bruh once Rein enters Glad and cant sense his oppnent then Limbo can do nothing.

      Hes not going to let someone in if he cant sense them.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote: If Limbo just becomes a lifeless robot then Reinhard wins.

      And Rein lets people in when he thinks they are worthy he wont just insta let someone in.

      The absorbed limbo i meant. Not the new clone.

      Someone looks at his spear passives, laughs at them, body controls him, ave if it ever comes to it (if rein ever gets to hit him with the spear) tanks his strongest ability or his spear. How is limbo not worthy exactly?

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    • I mean since Rein insta enters Glad then Limbo cant body control him and Limbo cant tank LLT.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote: I mean since Rein insta enters Glad then Limbo cant body control him and Limbo cant tank LLT.

      He can body control him before he enters. It's thought vs thought. And he can bp him even when rein is in glads, I'll explain below how or why.

      Limbo can tank llt, or more like another limbo, totally unrelated joins the fight. Rein doesn't know that so in his eyes limbo just tanked his strongest hit. Remember that's IF he ever gets hit by llt. He has that invis after all, making the spear useless.

      Once rein deems him worthy for taking the llt passives he let's him inside glads where the operator just bps him, by teleporting the void avatar from limbo to rein.

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    • Well no unless Limbos BP has Irrelevent range he cant do anything to Rein in Glad, and no Limbo doesnt tank it, another one appears, Rein will notice that and he knows about things like Type 8 immortlity.

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    • Why would limbo lead with bp canonically his first move would be one of his actual abilities as that is what he uses the most

      Also invis isn't passive so rein would have a target to hit with llt, eleonore's briah kinda makes seeing the target irrelevant

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    • Interesting match

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    • Hmm to affect him from outside glads he needs irrelevant range. From inside he doesn't. From inside glads it's easy for the void avatar to tp inside rein.

      You keep missing the fact that he'll never get a chance to spear limbo due to invis i don't know why.

      Time travel is still a thing. It will work wonders against glads.

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    • Oh and Reinhard's esp should let him sense the operator since they have a soul so he can just locate them from glads and spear

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    • Except Rein enters Glad Limbo cant get in unless Rein lets him in and he wont if he cant see him.

      Also even if Rein is body controlled that doesnt stop Rein from entering Briah or kicking Limbo out of Glad since both are thought based.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: Hmm to affect him from outside glads he needs irrelevant range. From inside he doesn't. From inside glads it's easy for the void avatar to tp inside rein.

      You keep missing the fact that he'll never get a chance to spear limbo due to invis i don't know why.

      Time travel is still a thing. It will work wonders against glads.

      The void avatar is definently connected enough to the operator that if it gets touched the actual operator dies. Also the void avatar won't get in because Reinhard has no reason to let him in

      Invis isn't passive and either way Eleonore's briah makes that irrelevant

      Rein also resisted methuselah's time manip and since Gladsheim is detached from the throne so that time manip wouldn't really help

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    • I love the op Reinhard Throws His Meme

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    • Firephoenixearl Since when do you think Limbo can tank LLT? A Tier 1 Spear, 90X above baseline 1-A and has an Irrevelent range.



      Limbo will become his maid.

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    • @Boogie Thanks xD.

      Well he doesn't tank it in the literal sense, he gets completely overwhelmed, he just goes invis before the spear hits him or a totally unrelated clone joins the fight. So rather than tank it, it's more like the spear is not enough to end this fight.

      Paul Frank wrote:
      The void avatar is definently connected enough to the operator that if it gets touched the actual operator dies. Also the void avatar won't get in because Reinhard has no reason to let him in

      There are several problems, 1 relies in the void avatar itself, how or why is the void avatar going to get speared if he's not even the one fighting. It's Limbo that's gonna be fighting and "possibly" tanking LLT, not void avatar.  And the second is, you know the void avatar is again "completely" not connected to the operator. The void avatar is just random void energy that has taken the form of the operator. The operator needs to put void energy into warframes to control them, the void avatar is this energy, the thing that fuels the warframes. There is literally 0 connection between the void avatar and the operator. This is more along the lines of, if you hit the sea with LLT you will kill Katara, because she may have manipulated that part of the sea with her powers before. The void avatar will use limbo to get in, which as we described will get in as he's laughing at a spear that 1 shots 1-A's via soul hax alone and poking fun at it's mind hax. If that's not impressive to reinhard idk what is.

      Invis isn't passive and either way Eleonore's briah makes that irrelevant

      Well considering Limbo has access to all items, even stuff like Shade (which makes the invis passive basically), i wouldn't be so sure. And Eleonore's briah doesn't make it a homing attack, i don't think the spear ever "homed in" on it's target. The spear is instant, ignores distance, there is no concievable way for anyone to dodge, therefore it never misses.

      Rein also resisted methuselah's time manip and since Gladsheim is detached from the throne so that time manip wouldn't really help

      Uhm, not gonna go into details about how he resisted time accel, which is not what kind of time manip im using here, im just gonna say this, did you really just say "Rein resists time travel" just now? xD. That's not sth you resist, the only resistance is called "Acausality" which rein doesn't have.. Glads is detached from the throne, but that doesn't make it omnipresent through time. The operator just goes back in time, absorbs rein, then causality does the rest. Gg

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    • Eleonores Briah is a homing attack though (And technically LLT with 4-A Rein has homing), also uh can Limbo even laugh or make an indication thats not threatened by LLT?

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
       Limbo even laugh or make an indication thats not threatened by LLT?

      Well not laugh, but make emotes/taunting emotes. I mean he can literally look at reinhard and make a dancing emoji by twearking or something. (Although they are not exactly in character for the operator xD). Here are the emotes btw.

      Though Limbo just standing there and fighting Rein despite the LLT should be enough indication that he doesn't care about it.

      I can't believe there is an argument that says emotes are a win condition vs a guy who erases you on a level beyond dimensions. Holy hell. I love limbo. xD

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    • Anyone wanna join chat?

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    • Ok so I dont think that will make Rein want to respectfully fight him but just piss him off, also theres still nothing stopping Rein from throwing Limbo out of Glad if he for some dumb reason got in.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      theres still nothing stopping Rein from throwing Limbo out of Glad if he for some dumb reason got in.

      If Limbo for any dumb reason gets in, it's gg. He will just deconstruct Rein then proceed to absorb him as information or BFR him. Or do anything non lethal from his arsenal to win.

      Ya wanna join chat though?

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    • Well no, Merc brings him back and if he BFRs him he just summons Glad to him and returns.

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    • After Limbo defeats some skeletons, Reinhard throws his spear.

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    • Oh yeah Reinhard has his Giant army.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Well no, Merc brings him back and if he BFR him he just summons Glad to him and returns.

      Rein won't die though. Rein will still exist, if Merc activates it will create 2 reinhards. 1 which exists as information and 1 who doesn't. Deconstruction doesn't kill, it just breaks him down into data, he is still alive, existing etc. Rein has never shown to be able to act in the form of information though.

      The BFR can happen in a dimensional freeze (where he won't be able to act/summon glads) in a computer in the form of information or inside his own body. The BFR will work as there are several ways to make Rein unable to summon glads, deconstruction is 1 of them. xD

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Oh yeah Reinhard has his Giant army.

      Limbo has ways to 1 shot Reinhard (as in has a nigh-instant win condition), the army won't be a problem especially when they can't even see or sense him.

      There is also time travel to count it.

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    • Im fairly certain Merc would bring Rein back but whatever,

      Ok so first off even if Limbo for what ever reason did get inside Glad hed have to deconstruct and absorb Rein before he can think cause thats all it takes for Limbo to be out of Glad.

      Limbo can in no way shape or form deconstruct Glad ever.

      And I forgot but Rein has a giant army of skeletons as well.

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    • the thing is if you wanna get in glasheirm to begin with rein has to invite you. Otherwise get ready to get lost and no map will save ya

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:

      Ok so first off even if Limbo for what ever reason did get inside Glad hed have to deconstruct and absorb Rein before he can think cause thats all it takes for Limbo to be out of Glad.

      Limbo can in no way shape or form deconstruct Glad ever.

      And I forgot but Rein has a giant army of skeletons as well.

      Not only is Limbo completely invisible and insensible (wait that's not the right word xD), by reinhard if he wishes to become so, but if Reinhard invites him into glads, why would he kick him back out with the next thought? It makes no sense, rein will invite him into glads because he tanked a soul hax that was ripping merc ffs xD. 

      He can deconstruct Reinhard, is there any proof that glads will stay even if Reinhard is turned into info. Obviously no one can say Limbo with his 3D info will be deconstructing a 1-A construct, but isn't glads reliant on Reinhard?

      If rein goes down i doubt any of them will be good enough, besides after rein gets deconstructed, the limbo who did that can just go to hell, he did his job, no one needs him anymore. xD

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    • Well if Limbo goes Invis or attempts to deconstruct Rein he gets kicked out its that simple.

      Even if Rein is turned into data but Limbo is kicked out his Low-Godly should be able to bring him back since he still has his soul to regen from.

      Also Glad is based of Reins Will and Soul which wont be effected by his physical being turning into data.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Well if Limbo goes Invis or attempts to deconstruct Rein he gets kicked out its that simple.

      Even if Rein is turned into data but Limbo is kicked out his Low-Godly should be able to bring him back since he still has his soul to regen from.

      Not rly, if he deconstructs rein there is nothing that will kick limbo out. Besides even if he gets kicked out he incapped reinhard, that's a win condition. Kicking him out will only save limbo from the army.

      Not rly, you can't "regen" from deconstruction into data. Everything about you is turned into information. You are still alive, your soul is fine, your body still exists, it's just that they have all been translated into information. That's what breaking down into information means. It's not lethal. The regen would work if limbo uses his lethal ways of ending the fight, same for merc reviving. Info manip is not lethal, reinhard is still alive and in perfect shape. There is also the fact that he can just get BFR-ed in that state, reinhard has never face being deconstructed into information.

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    • Yes there is, its called Reinhard I legit just said he would kick him out with a thought also this is assuming Limbo gets in, which the stupid twerking robot isnt so at best this is Incon.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Yes there is, its called Reinhard I legit just said he would kick him out with a thought also this is assuming Limbo gets in, which the stupid twerking robot isnt so at best this is Incon.

      1. No i mean if Reinhard gets deconstructed he won't have time to kick him out. So for it to be at the same time Reinhard would have to think when limbo tries to deconstruct. But he has no way to know Limbo will deconstruct. So at best reinhard will try after he's deconstructed, which he can't do.

      2. Even if he kicks him out, Limbo wins since Rein will be incapped in the form of info.

      3. A stupid bot who's shrugging his 1-A soul rip that's making 99% of the hadou gods kneel. Yes he will get in.

      4. The Operator still has his time travel. So even if he doesn't get in glads, he can use time travel to decon reinhard before he summons glads.

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    • I mean LLT doesnt use Soul Hax, thats Glad, LLT uses 1-A AP and EE.

      Also while Rein wants a good fight if he sees Non of his Mind or Soul working at all and LLT doesnt kill him then he’ll cautious since he’s extremely smart and thats cause for concern.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      I mean LLT doesnt use Soul Hax, thats Glad, LLT uses 1-A AP and EE.

      Also while Rein wants a good fight if he sees Non of his Mind or Soul working at all and LLT doesnt kill him then he’ll cautious since he’s extremely smart and thats cause for concern.

      LLT does have soul hax. Passive one on a 1-A level for soul ripping merc.

      LLT will never land on Limbo. Rein starts with glads, sees that Limbo slapped his passives away and then just walks in like a baus. Rein deems him as a worthy foe. As i said if Limbo who's unaffected by all of his passive and charisma isn't a worthy foe, then idk who is, that thing is soul ripping hadou gods.

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    • Ok so LLT does not have 1-A passive anything, the only Rein with 1-A passive stuff is the 4-A version.

      Glad is the thing with 1-A soul rip that isnt passive.

      And after he summons Glad he’ll likely summon his army to fight Limbo (To test him), if he sees Limbo go invisible, deconstruct his skeletons and absorb them that will just make him less inclined to let him in.

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    • Hmm what...how? Isn't passive 1-A soul spear hax the whole point why "everyone" who fights needs to lack a soul like UKG, Hazama etc? Cus i mean the 1-A soul hax has been brought up in both of those fights.

      If rein sees Limbo foderizing his army it will make him more inclined to do so. Reinhard is EXTREMELY arrogant, don't forget that, he doesn't look at his army like anything special, in his eyes they are just fodder, if he sees some guy who treats the same army as fodder, it will make him more inclined to bring Limbo in. Reinhard won't get scared cus of some dude who's fodderizing fodder skeletons, he still has a 1-A spear, he has no idea about Limbo's full arsenal though.

      And even then his passive stuff even if we say it's not 1-A completely fodderizes his entire army, the LDO members and most dudes he has to fight including stuff like methuselah. If someone just drinks tea while looking at the spear it will just make him want to fight Limbo even more. With all of Limbo's arsenal and immunities he is a worthy fighter, about the being too much for reinhard, was there any case of Reinhard being so scared of someone he didn't let him into glads? 

      And lastly if Reinhard just stays in glads so that he will be outside of harm, but cannot do anything to limbo. Isn't that self bfr? He teleports himself a multiverse away, to escape danger and cannot do anything to his opponent. That's self-bfr condition IIRC.

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    • reinhard isn't arrogant he just wants a good fight. There is a difference but if he knows the person is truly weak he won't care but if the opponent is strong then he would try to kill. Again his weakness is not arrogance but his love for a god fight. And he can still soul rip limbo who won't be able to get in if reinhard doesn't let him its that simple

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    • Same thing xD. Limbo will be a good fight i explained above why.

      He cannot soul rip Limbo due to immunities. And since he deems Limbo as a strong dude he will let him in which will basically spell doom for Reinhard.

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    • i'm pretty sure the next thing is throwing the spear with all its might if so because he doesn't want to hold back and throw it iirc (in the fight with meth i remember he just shot the spear in its entirety when he saw what meth's was capable off). And limbo still can't kill reinhard considering type 8 keep in mind

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    • limbo fra

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    • TISSG7Redgrave wrote:
      i'm pretty sure the next thing is throwing the spear with all its might if so because he doesn't want to hold back and throw it iirc (in the fight with meth i remember he just shot the spear in its entirety when he saw what meth's was capable off). And limbo still can't kill reinhard considering type 8 keep in mind

      He has many ways to incap which is what the winning arguments are for.

      Throwing the spear will not work for many reasons, it will either not hit limbo or another limbo will take his place.

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    • Reinhard FRA

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      limbo fra

      Limbo: 1

      Rein: 0

      0

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    • Eganergo wrote:
      Reinhard FRA

      Rein has no winning arguments though.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      Eganergo wrote:
      Reinhard FRA

      Rein has no winning arguments though.

      What.

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    • I just thought of something, Gladsheimr is an Outerversal location that completely separate from the rest of the Outerverse, and Firepheonixearl stated that Limbo won't be able to move or act without his own Operator and the Operator certainly doesn't have Outerversal range, so wouldn't the connection between Limbo and the Operator be cut off when Limbo enters the Outerversal Gladesheimr?

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    • Well in this case it would work, as the void avatar will be inside Limbo when he gets in. 

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    • Eganergo wrote:

      What.

      There is no argument currently that votes reinhard. Because Spear won't work. There are ways around glads. And The Operator has a massive tactical advantage and stuff like time travel to get around glads. 

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    • This is legit funny that Rein is apparently gonna get punked out. Limbo FRA

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    • So, to humor this thread, list his winnig hax because i will sure as hell not scroll through his wall.

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    • Stillwinston wrote:
      This is legit funny that Rein is apparently gonna get punked out. Limbo FRA

      2-0-0 In favor of Limbo

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    • First Witch wrote:
      So, to humor this thread, list his winnig hax because i will sure as hell not scroll through his wall.

      Come on, i even went through the trouble of putting it in tabbers so that it doesn't become a 2m long list of hax. But mostly:

      Time Travel

      Deconstruction

      BFR and pseudo time stop

      Body puppetry

      info manip

      Absorption

      As for defensive he has:

      Time travel (to deal with glads)

      Immortalities for days

      Invisibility and lack of mind and soul (to protect against both the passives and ESP. Invis on top of that makes it so that rein won't be able to use his spear as he has no knowledge of his location)

      And more.

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    • Alright lets see:

      BFR and Pseudo time stop: Explain. Because BFR aint beating Reinhard.

      Body Puppetry: How does it work. Because i kinda find it hard to believe that he can controll someone so far stronger than himself. Reinhard is obscenly high in that tier physically.

      Deconstruction and Absorption: Does it work on his soul too? Because if not than he just recreates his body 

      Info Manip: What does that even mean. What can he do with it.

      Time travel: A self explaining win con, but does Limbo know how far he needs to travel? Time travel on its own is not a wincon anymore, as this was decided to be unlikely without intel on his opponent.

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    • BFR and Pseudo Time Stop: Basically sends you and the space around you into another dimension where you are then dimensionaly frozen (doesn't freeze itme it's a bit weird on the mechanics, let's say it prevents you from acting or thinking, it works on objects as well).

      Body Puppetry: He spawns energy inside you then controls you. Void energy is what's controlling trillions of tier 6 dudes casually and the operator absorbed the embodiment of void energy. Just AP won't be enough to beat it, as the operator has shown that it works wonders even against beings that are far stronger than himself physically.

      Deconstruction and Absorption: Yes, it just turns him into information then absorbs him. Seems pretty self explanatory. Why this works is because this info is then collected and used to create clones of that (this is just extra info, not rly all that important in this fight).

      Info Manip: As i said above, he turns you into information then stores you in a cephalon archive in that form.

      Time Travel: Yes he seems to be god damn good at that. He was time traveling to a time before the moon was destroyed casually and IIRC he wasn't even alive at that time. I mean he was born after the moon was destroyed, either that or he was a baby, either way he had no knowledge yet he did it.

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    • Rein has mid godly inside glads and low godly outside of it he can certainly come back from deconstruction

      Limbo will again have no chance to do anything to Rein so the votes are invalid. Rein wouldn't let him in and he can't affect Rein otherwise. Also shade isn't passive permanent invis the sentinel has to activate it and then it only lasts a limited time after.

      Limbo has no wincons right now since nothing he does will even touch Reinhard

      Bfr doesn't work because of gladsheim, even if he was bfr'd gladsheim brings him back. The time stop is done through spatial freezing and Rein resists spatial manip

      Body puppetry doesn't work because it can't reach him in glads

      Same for info manip and absorption and either of those would activate his mid godly or get him brought back by Merc

      The spear never misses because of eleonore's briah not because of speed if Rein throws it the spear will always hit it's target no matter what. So invis wouldn't help and again Rein could sense the operator who has a soul and spear them from glads.

      Rein could also just fire big aoe stuff from gladsheim so invis doesn't really matter.

      Time travel doesn't help with gladsheim at all. Rein just goes back in once the fight starts.

      So unless some argument explains why Rein couldn't just sense the operator if it came down to it I vote Rein for spearing him or again spearing limbo and affecting him

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    • Not death, he can't regen, since he's not damaged or killed.

      What level of spatial manip does Rein resist? This guy is freezing the entire dimension.

      Yes he can, if he accepts limbo which he will.

      Neither of them would activate regen, nor merc. You're missing the point of this hax, they don't damage or kill. Rein still exists, just in the form of information rather than physical.

      Time Travel before he got into glads and does his hax before glads comes in. Like body puppetry or any of the other hax i mentioned. Stop treating glads as passive, there is a time before glads was summoned, time travel then it's gg for limbo.

      How far can Rein sense and even if he senses it's useless. He still needs to understand the link between the operator and Limbo. Remember this is SBA so besides op rein will be sensing 8 billion other humans.

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    • Question, would TIme Travel even work while Reinhard is in Gladsheimr, because Gladesheimr is a separate Outerverse which almost definitely has its own separate Time and Space, would changing TIme outside of Gladsheimr effect Reinhard in Gladsheimr?

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    • You know his soul works perfectly fine on its own right? Missing his body, even if its somewhere else, should be reason enough to reform.

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    • For the sensing 8 billion others I've been told that sba earth has only the combatants so there are actually 0 other people besides Rein limbo and the Op.

      Being turned into data counts as damage you completely lose your phyiscal body

      Rein would not accept an invisible man who won't show himself, into gladsheim

      As I said deconstruction and absorption both completely remove your physical body and mind so still existing is irrelevant it would be regen'd from or merc would revive

      Glads is thought based so it's faster than all of limbo's stuff even if he time travels

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    • First Witch wrote: You know his soul works perfectly fine on its own right? Missing his body, even if its somewhere else, should be reason enough to reform.

      To add onto that Trifa had his body for basically the entirety of dies irae and he was more or less fine

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    • In all honesty, I vote for Incon, as Reinhard has no way to put Limbo down, and while Limbo has ways to put Reinhard down, Reinhard can counter them.

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    • Ionliosite wrote: In all honesty, I vote for Incon, as Reinhard has no way to put Limbo down, and while Limbo has ways to put Reinhard down, Reinhard can counter them.

      Fair but Reinhard can easily spear the operator and im still not convinced that spearing limbo wouldn't affect the operator

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      For the sensing 8 billion others I've been told that sba earth has only the combatants so there are actually 0 other people besides Rein limbo and the Op.

      Being turned into data counts as damage you completely lose your phyiscal body

      Rein would not accept an invisible man who won't show himself, into gladsheim

      As I said deconstruction and absorption both completely remove your physical body and mind so still existing is irrelevant it would be regen'd from or merc would revive

      Glads is thought based so it's faster than all of limbo's stuff even if he time travels

      Nope, im pretty sure there are people around.

      Nope, because the info is still there. Info manip is like turning the sentence im typing rn into binary code or into source mode. If you combine the info it's still the same, even when you look at it like that it is still the same, but at the same time it's not as it's in another form. You gotta prove me rein counts info manip as something to regen from. 

      An invisible man who's beating his whole army, and flicks his passives. Yeah any case of that, he would still be a good fight. And time travel GG.

      No, they don't remove it. Absorption takes it into another place (inside the user) and deconstruction as i said is just the full body but in "source" mode. 

      No. He just time travels before the fight started and uses his hax before Rein even knows he's fighting. Limbo is immune to Rein's ESP and invisible to his eyes don't forget that. 

      Anyway Time Travel still GG.

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    • Ionliosite wrote:
      In all honesty, I vote for Incon, as Reinhard has no way to put Limbo down, and while Limbo has ways to put Reinhard down, Reinhard can counter them.

      There are some things like Time Travel that do deal with everything Reinhard has though. The lack of acausality gives a pass to anything Limbo tries to do with time travel, which means time hax to before rein did anything and sneak hax him.

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    • I'm 99% sure there is no one else around as I've been told multiple times

      That doesn't matter his body is data so another is made. He lacks his body so he regens another or merc resurrects him

      Rein has no reason to let an invisible man in, even if he beats his armies which is questionable, Rein just fires some stuff from gladsheim or uses the spears property of never missing

      That's removing, its removed from the soul and so Rein creates a new one or Merc does

      That would be if he could do that before the operator gets speared either by Rein or through Limbo

      Gladsheim still nopes time travel

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    • First Witch wrote:
      You know his soul works perfectly fine on its own right? Missing his body, even if its somewhere else, should be reason enough to reform.

      I know, in the form of info there would need to be some similar case to prove that info manip triggers merc or regen, because by logical means it doesn't. 

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      That doesn't matter his body is data so another is made. He lacks his body so he regens another or merc resurrects him

      Rein has no reason to let an invisible man in, even if he beats his armies which is questionable, Rein just fires some stuff from gladsheim or uses the spears property of never missing

      That's removing, its removed from the soul and so Rein creates a new one or Merc does

      That would be if he could do that before the operator gets speared either by Rein or through Limbo

      Gladsheim still nopes time travel

      Give me a similar case when that has happened pls.

      He does have, the reason is he's a worthy opponent, and Rein weakness states that he only uses spear as a last resort, he won't be sniping so soon.

      Removing from the soul? The soul will be turned into info along with everything else though, otherwise the archving won't work, and neither will the absorption.

      Show me rein killing something with such loose connections. As i said, it's like killing the rider through the car. Marie's relic was not a similar case. Getting speared by rein isn't happening anytime soon. And if he sees that he can't enter glads, he'll just time travel.

      Nope, glads has no answer to time travel as it has been stated time and time again, even FW said time travel is a win con. 

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    • The way mid godly works means that it would work against deconstruction

      If the invisible man manages to beat his armies he will be speared

      Mid godly doesn't need a soul

      Marie was definently a connection as loose as that. She didn't even reside within the throne and Ren's relic allowed her to be hit by the spear. The operator is using their energy to control limbo, that's more direct than Marie

      Glads literally doesn't exist within the same space time

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    • No, deconstruction into information is not the same as matter manip.

      Mid Godly is only in glads and again you gotta tell me when reinhard counted deconstruction into information as something he can regen from. 

      The relic was still part of Marie, so no. The relic's existence was connected to Marie. False equivalency.

      Yeah Rein still does. Rein still exists in the past of the universe. Glads doesn't make Rein acasual. So time travel before glads is good enough.

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    • I'd say that the spear would kill the Tenno.

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      I'd say that the spear would kill the Tenno.

      It has no reason to. Their existences are not connected in the least. The spear kills if the existence is connected, not if one is providing energy. It's like saying spearing reinhard kills mercurius, but worse.

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    • Isn't he directly making it move?

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      Isn't he directly making it move?

      He's giving him the energy to move, but the existence is not connected. I mean Limbo's existence is not connected in any way to the operator's existence. But the operator is using his hax on Limbo. So if Rein had that kind of ability to kill anyone who's haxing someone, everyone who was being haxed by marie would have gotten speared as well. Since that didn't happen, the operator won't die.

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    • If he's mindless, and the Operator isn't making him move, then what is?

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      If he's mindless, and the Operator isn't making him move, then what is?

      The operator is giving him the energy to move. Like a remote controler, but he's using hax to manipulate Limbo. That's all the connection Limbo has to The Operator. And the spear doesn't travel through hax to the operator. 

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    • It might affect the operator through the part of his power that is in Limbo.

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      It might affect the operator through the part of his power that is there.

      Not his power though. Void energy is an extra dimensional energy, it's not part of the operator, the operator can just control it. So it's not linked. 

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    • @TGOP Not under any precident that has been set by either series, so it would be baseless to assume so

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    • OK, maybe I should stop assuming that it works like Instant Death.

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    • The God Of Procrastination wrote:
      OK, maybe I should stop assuming that it works like Instant Death.

      Lol.

      Ya wanna vote?

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    • Assuming that the spear wont work through limbo

      Rein enters glads and can't sense limbo

      Rein senses the only other being which is the operator

      Rein spears the operator

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      Rein senses the only other being which is the operator

      Rein spears the operator

      Along with billions of people in the world. Yeah, no. Besides time travel will do it's job and hax reinhard from like 1000 years into the past by deconstructing him using an invisible limbo. 

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    • There are no other people in the sba universe

      Time travel won't work when the operator is killed instantly

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      There are no other people in the sba universe

      Time travel won't work when the operator is killed instantly

      Where does it say that? It's central park. There will be humans around.

      Why do you keep using instant? I mean it goes like Rein summons glads, then he tries to fight limbo, then he doesn't sense limbo, what will make rein go like, meh let's spear that dude there anyway, who knows?

      And again can you prove rein will sense him at all from that distance? Has rein ever sensed anyone outside of earth? His ESP can be planetary just fine. It says "large distances" in the profile, which means even less than planetary. Prove me he can sense from beyond that.

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    • I vote for Reinhard, Limbo doesn't have a way to put Reinhard down. Gladsheimr will counter everything Limbo has. I'm sure the Gold can sense the oprerator because he's connected to Limbo and then like others have said he spear him. His Spear is the Spear that pierce the Heavens.

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      There are no other people in the sba universe

      Completely false. Many matches have balanced on the scales of being able to pick your enemy out of a croud, or using spectators for absorption to heal

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    • Zaratthustra wrote:
      His Spear is the Spear that pierce the Heavens.

      That's very true as its meant to kill Mercurius, aka the Fourth Heaven. Also Reinhard FRA, Limbo can't do anything to Reinhard in Gladsheimr and Reinhard's spear can kill it and its Operator.

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:

      Paul Frank wrote:
      There are no other people in the sba universe

      Completely false. Many matches have balanced on the scales of being able to lick your enemy out of a croud, or using spectators for absorption to heal

      There should be a note then because I have been told multiple times that there is only the combatants

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    • By whom? You should go make a thread so it may be noted. Link it here when it has been done

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    • Zaratthustra wrote:
      I vote for Reinhard, Limbo doesn't have a way to put Reinhard down. Gladsheimr will counter everything Limbo has. I'm sure the Gold can sense the oprerator because he's connected to Limbo and then like others have said he spear him. His Spear is the Spear that pierce the Heavens.

      Wow that is incredibly vague, and also not at all reflective of reality. Multiple ways he can be put down have already been brought up, and multiple ways that it does not counter have been brought up.

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    • Zaratthustra wrote:
      I vote for Reinhard, Limbo doesn't have a way to put Reinhard down. Gladsheimr will counter everything Limbo has. I'm sure the Gold can sense the oprerator because he's connected to Limbo and then like others have said he spear him. His Spear is the Spear that pierce the Heavens.

      Limbo does have ways to put reinhard down. I've listed several of them.

      Gladsheimr is useless due to the Time Travel from The Operator.

      Reinhard's ESP is not enough to sense the operator. And void energy is not linked between the 2. The void energy moves inside limbo, who moves it is unknown to Reinhard.

      Reinhard has no knowledge over the operator, so he has no way to end the fight, whereas the operator can time travel and use any of his non lethal hax.

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    • Everything12 wrote:Limbo can't do anything to Reinhard in Gladsheimr and Reinhard's spear can kill it and its Operator.

      Limbo can kill him before he goes into gladeimr via time travel.

      Reinhard's spear can't fully kill Limbo and the operator is unknown to reinhard. Both the location and existence.

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    • I must have missed something in warframe because I can't remember the tenno ever time traveling with their own power out of their own volition much less in a combat applicable way

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    • Another thing that really confuses me is that from my limited knowledge, the original maker of the thread should not favor one party. Shouldn't only the others vote and not the original creator of the post? Or did the no written rule of "Original creator of the thread/debate favorite/argument for one party in battle"? 

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    • Well im knowledgeable on Limbo and i wanted to see if he can actually take on Reinhard. My vote obviously doesn't count though.

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    • The OP did not vote. But I voted by citing his reasons. Nothing is against the rules here. Let's be real here, Rein does not need the support of the OP, when almost everyone else has his back.

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    • Maybe it doesn't count but you being so focused on Limbo and favoring him may change the opinion of others as you always bring arguments. As you seem to know more be it wrong or right, by always putting your opinion in a thread created by you then whats for others to debate. If you the creator know so well that Limbo will win then why make this debate?

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    • It's still me (supporter of one side) vs supporter of the other side. I mean there are verses like Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry for example who have literally 0 knowledgable members. Warframe is similar, it has very little knowledgable members. Even though im the OP i have to argue however my vote is null. Im still allowed to argue as long as the debate is logical. 

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    • Let me remind you that at several points in this thread people asked him how Limbo could win, so he provided arguments. This does not exist in a vacuum. Arguments are also meant to change the opinions of others, or at least back the validity of your own, so if he has good arguments then he probably will. He does not know, but he will like to see how Limbo compares to one who is otherwise a juggernaut which slaughters about 99.9% of characters on this wiki, which i think is a perfectly ok thing to test.

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      He does not know, but he will like to see how Limbo compares to one who is otherwise a juggernaut which slaughters about 99.9% of characters on this wiki, which i think is a perfectly ok thing to test.

      Exactly my thoughts when i was about to make this. This thread wasn't even my idea to begin with, i just thought it might be fair. 

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    • Paul Frank wrote: I must have missed something in warframe because I can't remember the tenno ever time traveling with their own power out of their own volition much less in a combat applicable way

      ^Where does time travel come from and how does he do it

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    • Yes, one is to bring the arguments about Limbo but not counter all people who voted/said something about Reinhrard. It's just biased opinion.

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    • I've just been explaining what Limbo can do to answer stuff Reinhard does. 

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    • Fight starts

      Reinhard glads and pulls Limbo in to fight him (because just going to the castle and sniping from it with the spear is completely out of character)

      Limbo collapses because it’s a soulless meat puppet that only moves due to being remote controlled by the operator and I’m pretty sure outside the Throne is outside operators range.

      Reinhard is disappointed. Maybe he absorbs the corpse, maybe not. Either way, unless Ikabey mentioned something different, Reinhard does not get all the powers of Limbo because the reason he can use his subordinates briahs is because he can their desires are part of him and thus use their Briahs. Unless he showed himself using Rusalka’s witch powers or Trifa’s mind reading which are both separate from their Briahs.

      A new limbo pops up back in the normal world I guess and wonders where Reinhard is.

      Reinhard comes back months later because this is IkaBey key prior to first ark of covenant ritual and thus he can’t keep Gladshiemr out indefinitely.

      But I’m tired and can’t be bothered to continue thinking out the rest of the scenario.

      Bye

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    • I'll vote later when I get access to a pc.

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    • Ty for your contribution. Will patiently wait for the rest of the story. xD

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    • "I was summoned and now I approach this with trepidation in my heart."

      So I like slightly skimmed this thread, but I thought I saw something like how the Spear won't kill Limbo and that sounds like absolute fucking horseshit.

      So I am going to need an explanation on that, and mind you, a damn good one will be needed.

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    • Monarch Laciel wrote:

      Reinhard is disappointed. Maybe he absorbs the corpse, maybe not. Either way, unless Ikabey mentioned something different, Reinhard does not get all the powers of Limbo because the reason he can use his subordinates briahs is because he can their desires are part of him and thus use their Briahs. Unless he showed himself using Rusalka’s witch powers or Trifa’s mind reading which are both separate from their Briahs.


      Reinhard comes back months later because this is IkaBey key prior to first ark of covenant ritual and thus he can’t keep Gladshiemr out indefinitely.

      I wouldn't be surprised if Reinhard could use their powers, you know because he's Reinhard, but he hasn't showcased it, not that I'd really see the reason why he would show them off, but whatever, so I don't know how we treat that - and Limbo is soulless, right? I am pretty sure Reinhard gains the abilities, knowledge, and powers of another from absorbing their soul - that's why he doesn't have Meth's powers I think - so I guess it doesn't matter.


      Wasn't there a scene in IWKBey in where Elenore and Wilhiem were theorizing on Reinhard's soul capacity being infinite and him being able to maintain his Briah indefinitely - even before the First Ark of the Covenant? IDK, maybe my memory is screwy.

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    • I like how everyone immediately goes into utter disbelief over Reinhard throwing his spear somehow not killing his enemies in a single blow

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      I like how everyone immediately goes into utter disbelief over Reinhard throwing his spear somehow not killing his enemies in a single blow

      It has Masada level 1-A AP, EE, and Death Manipulation that negates all immortality and will never miss its opponent and negates the concept of distance to do so. It's a win-button if Reinhard decides to throw it.

      So yeah, seeing anything beat taking that on that isn't a Cthulu Mythos Outer Gods or something on that caliber is fucking ridiculous.

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    • Should I make Reinhard versus Takatou?

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    • But Reinhard won't throw it that fast unless his opponent is not worthy fightning. But if his opponent is worthy fightning, It's gonna take a while for him to throw it.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:

      So I like slightly skimmed this thread, but I thought I saw something like how the Spear won't kill Limbo and that sounds like absolute fucking horseshit.

      So I am going to need an explanation on that, and mind you, a damn good one will be needed.

      Ok ok, that almost sounds like a threat.

      Limbo is a puppet, a mindless and souless one. The driver of these puppets is The Operator, not because he's connected to these puppets, but because he holds the "controler" (i'll simplify this as much as i can) to control the movements of these puppets. If this puppet does get "speared" the puppet goes bye bye ofc. But The Operator can create as much of these as he wants. Think of an engennier who can build cars. He can build as many as he wants, and no matter what happens to the cars the enennier will not be affected, the cars will go bye bye, others will pop up. 

      That's the whole idea. So the spear will work (obviously), it's just that it won't end the fight as more clones will pop up. Get the point?

      But both you and monarch just said that throwing the spear will come way later on.

      Limbo has: Non-Lethal Hax (Incap win conditions) and time travel to counter immortalities and glads (assuming glads never goes out, which according to monarch it will go out), which is what the limbo votes are based upon. 

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    • How does the time travel work?

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      Paul Frank wrote: I must have missed something in warframe because I can't remember the tenno ever time traveling with their own power out of their own volition much less in a combat applicable way

      ^Where does time travel come from and how does he do it

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      Limbo is a puppet, a mindless and souless one. The driver of these puppets is The Operator, not because he's connected to these puppets, but because he holds the "controler" (i'll simplify this as much as i can) to control the movements of these puppets. If this puppet does get "speared" the puppet goes bye bye ofc. But The Operator can create as much of these as he wants. Think of an engennier who can build cars. He can build as many as he wants, and no matter what happens to the cars the enennier will not be affected, the cars will go bye bye, others will pop up. 

      That's the whole idea. So the spear will work (obviously), it's just that it won't end the fight as more clones will pop up. Get the point?

      But both you and monarch just said that throwing the spear will come way later on.

      Limbo has: Non-Lethal Hax (Incap win conditions) and time travel to counter immortalities and glads (assuming glads never goes out, which according to monarch it will go out), which is what the limbo votes are based upon. 

      The Spear can bypass type 9 1-A immortality - he would be able to destroy The Operator when he destroys Limbo, as that just type 9 immortality.



      Not that it matters since I am pretty sure he wouldn't start the fight by throwing the spear anyway, he would summon Glads to himself, which will form around Reinhard and Limbo, which then disconnects Limbo from The Operator - which makes Limbo useless.

      And what good is any hax supposed to do when he's already dead by being disconnected from his maker? I don't see any viability in Limbo's votes.

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    • Ok so im gonna say this when Rein enters Glad it legit soul rips like everyone around him and he has soul ripped billions iirc.

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    • Limbo has no soul.

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    • Well if Limbo has no soul, The spear can just erase him on a conceptual level.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Ok so im gonna say this when Rein enters Glad it legit soul rips like everyone around him and he has soul ripped billions iirc.

      Reinhard would be in front of Limbo at the start of this fight, and when he summons Glads, it would summon around him and Limbo - which wouldn't soul rip anyone.

      Not to mention, Limbo is a soulless robot.

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote:
      Well if Limbo has no soul, The spear can just erase him on a conceptual level.
      He respawns.
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    • He'd need feats of coming back from a conceptual destruction though.

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    • So some issues I have currently are

      As I said I can not remember a single time the tenno time traveled using their own power of their own volition much less in a combat applicable way

      How many copies of limbo do we say the tenno has because the build time is definently not just game mechanics

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    • Yes I know, that was about the whole Rein doesnt sense Limbo but senses The Operator so he goes to spear him, but then Fire said he wouldnt notice him due to the 7.7 other billion peoples souls around (although I have a feeling The Operators soul would be different from a humans).

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      So some issues I have currently are

      As I said I can not remember a single time the tenno time traveled using their own power of their own volition much less in a combat applicable way

      How many copies of limbo do we say the tenno has because the build time is definently not just game mechanics

      BUHP.
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    • Dies Irae characters can locate others via the "color" of their souls. If the Operator is what is powering Limbo, then he should be far stronger than a human and the intensity of his soul should be far greater, making it easy enough to locate him.

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    • What happens is Reinhard summons Gladheimr which then sucks in both Reinhard and Limbo, separating Limbo from The Operator and leaving it as a lifeless machine, then The Operator builds a completely new Limbo. According to Firephoenixearl it then travels back in time (How does its time travel work?) to kill Reinhard before he enters Gladheimr. The problem I see is will killing past Reinhard affect present Reinhard who is in the separate Outerverse of Gladheimr?

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    • No, really, when do they use time travel?

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    • Also it takes 3 days to build a new frame assuming you have all the parts done. If not that's an extra 12 hours and I'm 99.9% sure build times are not game mechanics

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    • Gonna be honest some of the warframe abilities are sounding wanked, but I have not played it in a while so I might be wrong, and I agree with Paul Frank's point.

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    • Firephoenixearl says they can stockpile already built Limbos? Any idea how many they can stockpile at one time?

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    • Also this is not Limbo versus Reinhard, this is The Operator vs Reinhard, and matches with Limbo appear to be skewed in his favour, where is the operator during the fight, why does Limbo being rebuilt count as immortality when it is not the same Limbo? This is basically like have someone remote operate a robot and fight someone else. But you say that it is the robot that is fighting, despite the robot havign no consciousness and then the operator is no where near the fight and the operator being able to rebuild said robot for some reason means the robot gets immortality from it?

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    • Everything12 wrote: Firephoenixearl says they can stockpile already built Limbos? Any idea how many they can stockpile at one time?

      Well you can have up to 4,294,967,296 warframe slots since its a 32 bit integer

      But you can only ever build one limbo and platinum is not canon so you can't buy extra so at most you have one limbo and one limbo prime

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    • I'm suprised Limbo is leading.

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    • are we never going to get an answer for this time travel? lol.

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    • So looking at this all

      I'm doubting time travel because I literally can't remember one instance where the tenno did it with their own power of their own will and in a combat applicable way

      You can canonically only have two limbos the blueprints are given to you by a quest that you can only do once. And limbo prime is the other one but primes are supposed to be lost anyway so having a bunch is unlikely

      For frames other than limbo and Inaros then you can have at most 4,294,967,296 copies of one but that is again unlikely as I'm pretty sure expanding your armory slots is not canon. I'm addition build times of 3 days kinda makes it unlikely you can build more since plat is not canon

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote:
      I'm suprised Limbo is leading.

      Mostly because Firephoenixearl isn't counting Reinhard votes.

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    • Also, which opinions were counted as voted for Limbo? And why some are not for Reinhard when he can beat Limbo by killing the operator. There are also some inconclusive arguments but it still at 0.

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    • @Paul Frank

      I mean even if they had space of over 4 billion warframe is it even canon for them to have more than one of a warframe stockpiled? why would they have the maximum amount of space for a singular warframe. That makes no sense.

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    • Rocker1189 wrote: @Paul Frank

      I mean even if they had space of over 4 billion warframe is it even canon for them to have more than one of a warframe stockpiled? why would they have the maximum amount of space for a singular warframe. That makes no sense.

      Oh no its definitely not canon to have multiple copies of one frame at most they would have one frame and their prime variant and with limbo in particular he can't be rebuilt.

      I was just pointing out what the cap is

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    • yeah yeah I got that, was just adding to your point.

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    • Really Reinhard's spear just like Ren's holy relic, It can bypass all types of regeneration and immortality.

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    • In addition the whole deconstruction into data only works if simaris wants a target. If simaris doesn't want a target it just info analyses them and I'm pretty sure that's not just game mechanics

      The item is given to you by simaris with the purpose of scanning targets he gives you to bring them to the sanctuary not to scan everything and shove it in the sanctuary

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    • I have 1000 hours in Warframe and I still don't know from where Limbo has Time Travel. Can someone tell me?

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    • Zaratthustra wrote: I have 1000 hours in Warframe and I still don't know from where Limbo has Time Travel. Can someone tell me?

      He says it's the tenno in general but I've played literally since day one and I don't know where it comes from either

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    • @Rocker

      Well we do fights based on "what if these 2 characters met by chance and fought?". In a scenario like that Limbo would work exactly like this. With the operator backing him up, moving him, bringing him back etc. I asked Ant if a case like this was fair or applicable in vs debates (long ago), and IIRC he said something along the lines of "If that's how the character would usually fight or how a fight with said character would result in, then yes it can be assumed so and it can be treated the same as "standard equipment" or the same as how we have duo characters". So that's the idea of the operator and warframe.

      @Paul 

      Holy geez the amount xD. Also you're treating plat as game mechanics but not warframe slots? Rly? xD. Im sorry but how would warframe slots translate in lore exactly? Hell even the amount you said is not true, as the amount is potentially infinite (or endless i guess i should say, the lore isn't bound by 32 bit, only the game's mechanics are bound by that). Warframe, weapon slots, or any sort of limit that makes no logical sense in an actual fight is game mechanics. I'd even say the "1 secondary, 1 primary 1 melee per mission" is game mechanics. In a fight where we give the operator knowldedge i see no reason why he would be unable to leave the primary and take 2 seconaries instead, it has no meaning story wise. And it's possible to create copies of blueprins and stuff like that, how did you think non-prime warframes came into existence, just recreating parts of Limbo and stuff.

      @Warren

      Well it's type 9 immort for the sake of it. But Limbo's true self is not The Operator. The operator is just the controler, the spear won't be killing the operator through limbo, there is no logical connection between the existence of the 2 besides the "controller" and "the controlled". Limbo is not part of the operator, just his tool. 

      About glads making Limbo fodder? While that may work im not entirely sure, as the void energy would still be inside limbo and would enter glads along with him. 



      And about the votes i will count them i was just waiting for some more knowledgable members on Masada.

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    • And Limbo can't beat Rein

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    • So that's the idea of the operator and warframe.

      Great, except beating Limbo would be beating Limbo, you dont get to do this beat Limbo, then beat another Limbo and so on, they are 2 different Limbos. The moment you beat 1 you have won the match.

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    • Time Travel comes from being able to go back and forth through the pre and post destruction moon eras. The Operator can just go to the pre moon destruction era, kill reinhard, call it a day. 

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    • Dude, you ar emixing up gameplay and lore, in lore there is literally no consistent time travel same thing with this operator rebuilding Limbo nonsense.

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    • @fire because the max amount of frames in lore would be lower. There is limited space you can store stuff in

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    • You are using the fact that you can replay missions as a time travel feat? Really?

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: Time Travel comes from being able to go back and forth through the pre and post destruction moon eras. The Operator can just go to the pre moon destruction era, kill reinhard, call it a day. 

      Fire please tell me you don't mean when they time travel in lua spy missions

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    • I feel like a revision might be needed.

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    • For sure. Unfortunately since I am pretty unfamiliar with current Warframe I wont be able too help much. This is feeling liek High 6-A warframe all over again.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:
      Time Travel comes from being able to go back and forth through the pre and post destruction moon eras. The Operator can just go to the pre moon destruction era, kill reinhard, call it a day. 

      What? Are you not using your brain?

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      @Warren

      Well it's type 9 immort for the sake of it. But Limbo's true self is not The Operator. The operator is just the controler, the spear won't be killing the operator through limbo, there is no logical connection between the existence of the 2 besides the "controller" and "the controlled". Limbo is not part of the operator, just his tool. 

      About glads making Limbo fodder? While that may work im not entirely sure, as the void energy would still be inside limbo and would enter glads along with him. 


      And about the votes i will count them i was just waiting for some more knowledgable members on Masada.

      Well, then that's either Type 6 or 8 immortality since Limbo is reliant on The Operator for literally everything, however, the spear still negates that.

      That reliance of Limbo to The Operator is the connection - just like there is a connection between Reinhard and Mercurius.



      And Limbo's void energy is given to him from The Operator, yes? Cutting off the system in which Limbo is given his power will mean that he doesn't have that energy anymore, it's like shutting the water off and trying to turn on a facet.

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    • @Paul Not rly, why would there be limited space, you mean the spaceship? Yeah that place is large enough to store like 100 warframes, which means like doubles of each. The warframe slots are just game mechanics for people to buy plat.

      @Rocker

      What? Replay missions? Who said that? The moon is destroyed in the era warframe exists. The operator can literally go back in time to before it was destroyed. Where did you get the replay missions?

      Building and rebuiliding warframes is completely cannon. Stalker destroys warframes for fun, yet they still exist. When Stalker met hunhow he was literally holding on to Loki's head and hunhow said "no matter how much you kill them they always come back". What do you mean it's not lore? That's like 1 of the biggest plot points in lore, the fact that warframes cannot be put down, "the ultimate soldiers". 

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    • Pre Moon Destruction Era is in the Warframe verse, it's not an Era where Reinhard exists. Also, that's for lore and it's not limbo power.

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      In addition the whole deconstruction into data only works if simaris wants a target. If simaris doesn't want a target it just info analyses them and I'm pretty sure that's not just game mechanics

      The item is given to you by simaris with the purpose of scanning targets he gives you to bring them to the sanctuary not to scan everything and shove it in the sanctuary

      And the targets cycle daily. Simaris sure is picky eh? The target preferences is just game mechanics so that it doesn't break the reputation farming. Why would simaris pick one today, and tomorrow another one and not accept any others. I mean if he does need the info on them why require them 1 by 1? He still needs info on them. We went over this, the fact that he only requires 1 per day and a different one each day means that any opponent would be fine, but it's limited to 1 per day so that the meta and reputation of the game doesn't break.

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    • What? Replay missions? Who said that? The moon is destroyed in the era warframe exists. The operator can literally go back in time to before it was destroyed. Where did you get the replay missions?

      As a consistent thing the operator has a time travel machine? Or equipment or ability? Can you provide proof of this? Even the warframe wiki or anything would be good.

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    • Firephoenixearl Don't forget, Reinhard's spear has an irrevelent range.

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    • Building and rebuiliding warframes is completely cannon. Stalker destroys warframes for fun, yet they still exist. When Stalker met hunhow he was literally holding on to Loki's head and hunhow said "no matter how much you kill them they always come back". What do you mean it's not lore? That's like 1 of the biggest plot points in lore, the fact that warframes cannot be put down, "the ultimate soldiers". 

      According to Paul Frank there is only 1 Limbo and he cant be rebuilt.

      And what you posted supported that yeah they can be built but not in minutes.

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    • Rocker1189 wrote:
      What? Replay missions? Who said that? The moon is destroyed in the era warframe exists. The operator can literally go back in time to before it was destroyed. Where did you get the replay missions?

      As a consistent thing the operator has a time travel machine? Or equipment or ability? Can you provide proof of this? Even the warframe wiki or anything would be good.

      It was a quest, i don't remember which quest it was but your roads were blocked off by the destroyed walls and stuff. And the operator had to go back to pre orokin moon era to get through, it started as a quest then became the idea behind all current moon spy missions. 

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      It was a quest, i don't remember which quest it was but your roads were blocked off by the destroyed walls and stuff. And the operator had to go back to pre orokin moon era to get through, it started as a quest then became the idea behind all current moon spy missions. 

      Again some proof would be nice, a quest could make it a 1 time thing and not anything consistent that can be done deliberately.

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    • @fire the ship can only store so many frames and as I said you can only get one limbo and possibly some limbo primes but again build times are a thing

      And fire if you are talking about the lua mission time travel that is 1. Not the tenno's own power 2. Not of their own volition and 3. Not combat applicable in anyway

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    • @Paul You can only get 1 Limbo, is not exactly true. The lores have shown time and time again that warframes die in the hands of the stalker mainly (cus he can negate regeneration), but they still come back. Saying the stalker has never canonically met Limbo would be way too far fetched considering, warframe cloning is how Limbo came into existence in the first place.

      Elaborate on that.

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    • Since there is much debate on the validity of the Limbo's powers from multiple people who have played the game  - can we get some scans or something?

      That would put all of this back and forth to rest, no?

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    • Ok, let me help you guys with some info. 

      1. Limbo can be built only once because it's a quest for its parts, and then bought with platinum from the market again once. There is also a chance to get its blueprint without parts from login reward, but only the blueprint so no parts then no Limbo. 2 Limbo Maximum because Limbo Prime it's another Limbo so he's excluded.

      2. Time Travel is only for Luo Missions. It exists in the already futuristic Verse of Warframe. It's already in the future of it. It's not in our Era/Time/etc. So, no way to reach the time of Reinhard. Also, the time travel only works for Luo, nothing more-nothing less.

      3. Platinum is not canon. The point, it's a game mechanic for players to buy/sell things in the GAME. It's not lore.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: @Paul You can only get 1 Limbo, is not exactly true. The lores have shown time and time again that warframes die in the hands of the stalker mainly (cus he can negate regeneration), but they still come back. Saying the stalker has never canonically met Limbo would be way too far fetched considering, warframe cloning is how Limbo came into existence in the first place.

      Elaborate on that.

      Limbo was canonically stuck in the rift in pieces a single copy of his blueprints was able to be recovered by ordis barely thanks to the signals sent.

      The time travel is done through dimensional tears that already exist on lua

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:
      @Paul You can only get 1 Limbo, is not exactly true. The lores have shown time and time again that warframes die in the hands of the stalker mainly (cus he can negate regeneration), but they still come back. Saying the stalker has never canonically met Limbo would be way too far fetched considering, warframe cloning is how Limbo came into existence in the first place.

      Elaborate on that.

      Or it just means that Limbo has never died to the Stalker, other warframe have died to him does nto mean every warframe has died to him. And if it is fact that Limbo can not be rebuilt then it can not be rebuilt.

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      The time travel is done through dimensional tears that already exist on lua

      Thank you.

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    • Yeah then there should be no time travel, period. In a neutral setting those dimensional tears would not exist. Not to mention that The Operator would have to travel to where they are, then travel back to where the fight is happening.

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    • Without time travel is something that Limbo can do to bypass Glads?

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    • Not that I know of, he would just be speared and even if he could somehow come back, it would be speared again.

      wait, I forgot reinhard does nto spear people in character lol.

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    • So, Time Travel isn't a win condition, meaning Limbo doesn't have any way to get him out of Gladheimr once he's in, and their is only, at max, two Limbo's. If this is true then the first Limbo is lost in Gladheimr, separated from The Operator, when Reinhard summons Gladheimr at the start of the match, then the second one is sent out and destroyed by Reinhard without even having the chance to attack him because of  Gladheimr and him being out of its range, and The Operators continued existence means nothing to this match because its LIMBO vs Reinhard and theirs no more Limbos.

      If that is the case then I vote Reinhard.

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    • Reinhard FRA.

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    • Reinhard FRA

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    • >208 messages within 24 hours

      Wew. Don't mind me, just here to observe.

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    • @Zara

      1. Warframes can be cloned. Same as how Loki, Rhino, Ash, and all of them can get cloned. There was only 1 limbo clone at first, if the lotus or whoever does that can create infinite copies of all warframes why can't she make clones of Limbo? The limbo stuck in the dimension is the FIRST limbo. But they are just robots and can be copied, same as how Limbo was copied from Limbo Prime.

      2. The Era difference is moot here though if we take that into consideration because if we do Limbo vs Reinhard cannot even happen. The warframe story begins after Reinhard's story has ended. It's normal to assume it takes place in the futuristic world of warframe. 

      3. I know is not, same as how MANY other things are not canon. 

      @Paul

      Read up on point 1 i said to Zara.

      It is still possible for the operator to time travel using those tears. The eras will be equalized given that this fight is happening.

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    • Well, it might be a stomp, depends if that Information Manipulation can do anything, or if their is any other win con.

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    • Those tears only exist due to the moon being moved by lotus way back when so no the tears that are on the moon don't exist in sba universe and can't be used

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    • Given the new info on Limbo's powers, I'll change my vote to Reinhard, as Reinhard has ways to put Limbo down that it can't counter.

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    • 1. Dude, time travel is not a Limbo or Operator ability, you cant not give it to them as one.

      2. The era does not matter, battles have always happened in a neutral universe, all that matters is that abilities that they have work as stated.

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    • Everything12 wrote:

      Don't jump to conclusions so fast pls, the time travel is still being discussed.

      There are several limbo's. As i said Limbo's can be cloned easily, same as how it has been cloned, so no, it's not max 2.

      Limbo can just wait the glads out. As monarch said glads is not permanent and will go out. Rein cannot keep him for eternity. 

      Reinhard killing limbos with spear is severly out of character. So im gonna need other means by which rein kills limbo. That argument is being directly contradicted by what monarch and warren said.

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    • By punching him in the face.

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    • 1. They can be cloned if you go like that, but the fight is not against the Original Limbo. Second, Lotus may clone more but it was never stated or shown. It's like saying Naruto can create infinite clones at the beginning of the Anime because he created 1000 clones but the chakra is not taken in the equation. To build more Limbo you need more materials/parts/blueprint. Till it's shown that there are built two Limbo then the fact is not mot.

      2. Was there an Era Equalisation and I didn't see it? They can only go in the Luo Era, just that. From what I remember even at the end of Reinhard's story there was no Luo or warframe being made, but maybe you know something secrete there that all we don't. If Limbo could Time Travel on any time axis be it past-future, then maybe he could but no. He can only go to Luo Era.

      3. Then there can not be any more Limbo. If it would have been Limbo Prime then it could be an infinite number of them, but this is Limbo, the original one that DE released.

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    • Glads in ikabey can around last 2 months so it would be incon by then

      Limbo was cloned into a single use blueprint because the stars aligned and the limbo theorem materials can't be obtained again so no only one normal limbo and some primes maybe and there is no reason that the tenno would have a million copies of limbo prime

      Again ikabey has a 2 month limit so it would be incon

      The spear would come out if he was bored by limbo or found him worthy

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    • I'm pretty sure Reinhard doesn't punch normally he uses his undead WWII army, Gladheimr's skeleton form, or he uses his spear without throwing it.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:
      Everything12 wrote:
      Don't jump to conclusions so fast pls, the time travel is still being discussed.

      There are several limbo's. As i said Limbo's can be cloned easily, same as how it has been cloned, so no, it's not max 2.

      Limbo can just wait the glads out. As monarch said glads is not permanent and will go out. Rein cannot keep him for eternity. 

      Reinhard killing limbos with spear is severly out of character. So im gonna need other means by which rein kills limbo. That argument is being directly contradicted by what monarch and warren said.

      When Limbo's body just falls on the ground after Reinhard summons Glads, the fight will be over and Reinhard will be disappointed that fight he was planning on having is not a fight at all - making it very likely that Reinhard will just throw the spear on the lifeless corpse to just destroy it.

      And even if he doesn't do that, he's not just going to leave the lifeless body of Limbo there, he could destroy it without using his spear.

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    • I honestly see no way of Limbo winning this.

      Reinhard FRA

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    • This is either a full stomp for Reinhard and it should be closed or not taken in equation.

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    • The only way I see this not being a stomp is if the battle goes similar to the battle against Ren on the bridge, where Reinhard first move wasn't to sucked his opponent into Gladheimr, and Limbos use its Information Manipulation before Reinhard can destroy it, and the Information Manipulation doesn't activate Reinhard's Immortality. Is this situation at all possible?

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    • I also disagree with the deconstruction working on rein because the synthesis scanner was made by simaris specifically to bring his targets into the sanctuary and in game it doesn't work on non targets and in lore it is supposed to bring only simaris' targets to the sanctuary so there is no reason for it to work on people that simaris doesn't want

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    • Hmm does it go for inconc then? The 2nd limbo can just wait for glads to end but since it won't end until it becomes inconc then it's just inconc isn't it?

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    • I guess unless Limbo has another way to get past Reinhard's Immortality its a stomp then.

      Any idea what has to be done about the fact that the Warframe profiles need revision?

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    • Everything12 wrote:
      The only way I see this not being a stomp is if the battle goes similar to the battle against Ren on the bridge, where Reinhard first move wasn't to sucked his opponent into Gladheimr, and Limbos use its Information Manipulation before Reinhard can destroy it, and the Information Manipulation doesn't activate Reinhard's Immortality. Is this situation at all possible?

      Wasn't Reinhard and Glads sealed away until all eight swastikas were filled with souls and Reinhard began his emanation? Isn't that why he Astral Projected, which should be added to his powers, to Earth? 

      That is not the case here in his IWKBey form. Reinhard never leaved his castle in the novel.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:

      Wasn't Reinhard and Glads sealed away until all eight swastikas were filled with souls and Reinhard began his emanation? That is not the case here.

      I might be getting confused with the anime where I'm sure Gladheimr was summoned for that fight, or maybe I'm mistaking the Skeleton Gladheimr for a completely different Golden Skeleton Reinhard controls.

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    • Information manipulation comes from Deconstruction and it's synthesis scanner. It's not a true form of information manipulation. Also to work it needs the target to no be aware of you, but once you scan one thing the target becomes aware. You need to scan 3-4 times for it to be deconstructed on becoming information. Also, you need to root the target for its points of analysis to work well. So, no, it a low tier information manipulation that has a lot of weaknesses and it won't work on Reinhard. It was only used on fodder targets.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:
      Hmm does it go for inconc then? The 2nd limbo can just wait for glads to end but since it won't end until it becomes inconc then it's just inconc isn't it?

      Why wouldn't Reinhard just destroy the other Limbo?

      • He could just invite that Limbo inside, which will lead it to be disconnected from The Operator like the first one, and then destroy that one's body as well.
      • He could just see the second Limbo, realize the fight will be a non-fight like the first one and just snipe him with the spear.
      • He could send his legion out to attack.
      • Et cetera


      Honestly, what makes Reinhard lose this whatsoever? This seems stompish to me.

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    • Reinhard can now stomp Beatrice (Wild Arms)-)Her real self is an 25 dimensional) because Reinhard has that irrevelent range.

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    • Everything12 wrote:

      I might be getting confused with the anime where I'm sure Gladheimr was summoned for that fight, or maybe I'm mistaking the Skeleton Gladheimr for a completely different Golden Skeleton Reinhard controls.

      *Shudders in disgust*

      Anyway, we use the visual novel, not the anime - so I can't say what is or isn't in the anime. 

      Here's a video showing the scene, the scene stops at 34:00.


      Reinhard is an astral projection from Glads which is sealed away because of the First Ark of the Convent ceremony that happened during the Fall of Berlin 1945. He projected himself to Earth because he specifically desired to see the progress of Zarathustra, who he had been promised, by Mercurius, will become the opponent he always desired.

      The context for that scene isn't the same in this fight, and thus Reinhard's actions will not be the same.

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote:
      Reinhard can now stomp Beatrice (Wild Arms)-)Her real self is an 25 dimensional) because Reinhard has that irrevelent range.

      Reinhard doesn't have irrelevant range with his spear, that CRT went nowhere and was closed without any changes being made - even though I believe he should have the level of range with the spear, please do not spread information that isn't supported on the profiles.

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    • Well not like it matters unless Limbo has another way to get past his Type 9 we don't know about this is a stomp, but against Methuselah, he didn't immediately trap Methuselah in Gladheimr, though I guess theirs was that their is two different ways to victory thing he was doing.

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    • Whatever happened to Reinhard finding and killing the Operator?

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    • That's still very possible

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    • Everything12 wrote:
      Well not like it matters unless Limbo has another way to get past his Type 9 we don't know about this is a stomp, but against Methuselah, he didn't immediately trap Methuselah in Gladheimr, though I guess theirs was that their is two different ways to victory thing he was doing.

      Reinhard was already within Glads at the start of the fight a decent distance away from Meth's "physical body", and Mercurius said there would be two ways to defeat Meth. 

      One of the ways was for him to empower Wilhiem to fight Meth and the other was to use the spear.

      He let Meth and Wilhiem fight first, and after that - Reinhard summoned his spear and instantly threw it - killing Meth.



      Again, context changes Reinhard's actions in these scenarios.

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    • @Firephoenixearl So Limbo can be clones infinite times or not? Because if not, then Reinhard wins.

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    • Warren Valion  *Aye man LLT can reach 1-A realms because of what it did with Marie and the Tenma.

      • The LLT is Reinhard's weapon, and Reinhard was created out of Mercurius's desire to die - that's why the LLT is 1-A, it is meant to be able to kill him.
      • If Mercurius's desire created a being with a weapon with the strength to kill him, why wouldn't it have the range or speed to hit him with? It's a pointless weapon then, and I feel like it doesn't make much sense.
      • Reinhard's Briah works on a 1-A level.
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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Whatever happened to Reinhard finding and killing the Operator?

      Where is The Operator in accordance with Limbo?

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote:
      Warren Valion  *Aye man LLT can reach 1-A realms because of what it did with Marie and the Tenma.
      • The LLT is Reinhard's weapon, and Reinhard was created out of Mercurius's desire to die - that's why the LLT is 1-A, it is meant to be able to kill him.
      • If Mercurius's desire created a being with a weapon with the strength to kill him, why wouldn't it have the range or speed to hit him with? It's a pointless weapon then, and I feel like it doesn't make much sense.
      • Reinhard's Briah works on a 1-A level.

      Again, I agree with you.

      But this notion hasn't been made into a CRT that was accepted and implemented to the profiles.

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    • No, he can't clone himself. Only Lotus or maybe others can, but he himself can't. There can be only two if you took in account game mechanics one being from mission and one from the market.

      Only Limbo Prime can be infinite as you can build as many as you want, of course if you have he platinum.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:

      PsychoWarper wrote:
      Whatever happened to Reinhard finding and killing the Operator?

      Where is The Operator in accordance with Limbo?

      No idea but he’s controlling him from somewhere and his soul would definitely look way different from a humans.

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    • Ok so people are now interested in warframe revisions?

      I win!

      Finnaly there can be a truly active CRT with warframe, people go right ahead. Do i really gotta put ppl against reinhard for them to get any recognition? (Time to put rakudai vs reinhard if that's the case)

      • Limbo can infinitely clone himself using specters. So even if we assume he cannot infinitely clone himself (which i intend to settle in a CRT). So he could still use specters to fight. 
      • Limbo will not be joining Glads a 2nd time. He ain't that dumb.
      • Limbo doesn't deconstruct through synthesis scaners (which i intend to settle in a CRT on whether it will work or not), he can also deconstruct and absorb like he does to capture targets.
      • If limbo doesn't want to Reinhard won't be able to even realize another limbo exists. Lack of soul and stealth + invisibility etc. 
      • Will the spear kill Limbo if he's in the rift? (Another universe). From what warren said since the range wasn't accepted for the spear it wouldn't affect another universe. So the limbos can still be safe. 
      • As time passes more limbo clones can be created, in 1 month, that's a pretty long time. xD
      • Will Possession work? Just asking, cus The Operator can possess him.
      • Now this is not sure, but i think TMiTW will overpower Reinhard's reistance to mind hax, which should allow void energy to enslave reinhard's mind.
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    • Good grief.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      So what you are saying is, after the first Limbo is killed. 

      The other will be in a separate reality - affectively BFRing himself from the fight?

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    • There is really no need for a thread to accept reinhard's spear affect Marie or being used to kill momiji the feats clearly happened and can be used as evidence

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      There is really no need for a thread to accept reinhard's spear affect Marie or being used to kill momiji the feats clearly happened and can be used as evidence

      A CRT needs to be made and accepted for a change in what's on the profile to be properly used.

      Reinhard having 1-A shit in base was thrown around the wiki for a long while but wasn't ever accepted until ALRF went and finally made a thread for it.

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    • Ok so I think it could go like this,

      Reinhard sees Limbo rekt his army and gets excited for a good fight inviting Limbo into Glad,

      Limbo becomes disconnected from The Operator and falls as a lifeless robot “corpse”,

      Reinhard becomes extremely disappointed (likely assuming it died to his soul hax or something) but then he senses an extremely powerful soul in The Operator,

      He then goes and finds The Operator and then would likely either Soul Rip or “Throw his Spear” killing the Operator after some fighting.

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    • It don't make sense.

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote: It don't make sense.

      Mine or the thing about 1-A range stuff?

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    • Yeah the operator would have a much more powerful soul than any other human so after limbo falls down lifeless Rein could just spear the operator or go to them with glads

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    • If Warframe needs a CRT, which both sides seem to agree with, then shouldn't that be taken of before we take this match any further, otherwise we are working with what  is possibly wrong information which could lead to the match results being removed and further wasting  everyone's time debating.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:
      Firephoenixearl wrote:
      So what you are saying is, after the first Limbo is killed. 

      The other will be in a separate reality - affectively BFRing himself from the fight?

      Not rly. It's Limbo's bread and butter. Limbo can go into the rift (only into that dimension, but from that dimension he can go back to the normal dimension), by literally moving, or dodging i should say. He can go back and come back anytime he wants to. 

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Ok so I think it could go like this,

      Reinhard sees Limbo rekt his army and gets excited for a good fight inviting Limbo into Glad,

      Limbo becomes disconnected from The Operator and falls as a lifeless robot “corpse”,

      Reinhard becomes extremely disappointed (likely assuming it died to his soul hax or something) but then he senses an extremely powerful soul in The Operator,

      He then goes and finds The Operator and then would likely either Soul Rip or “Throw his Spear” killing the Operator after some fighting.

      Depending on the location of The Operator, he might be beyond Reinhard's senses though.

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    • Can Rein sense souls from a solar system away?

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      Not rly. It's Limbo's bread and butter. Limbo can go into the rift (only into that dimension, but from that dimension he can go back to the normal dimension), by literally moving, or dodging i should say. He can go back and come back anytime he wants to. 

      If he is teleporting out of there area, then he is BFRing himself. 

      And if he comes back within the allotted time, then he will be destroyed by Reinhard - possibly with the spear for giving him such a boring "fight" with the first Limbo.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:

      If he is teleporting out of there area, then he is BFRing himself. 

      And if he comes back within the allotted time, then he will be destroyed by Reinhard - possibly with the spear for giving him such a boring "fight" with the first Limbo.

      Well he is visibly there, but physically in another dimension. Will the spear work then? This gives a wrong idea. This is limbo being in another dimension but still there. Rift and Reality overlap. They are the same, but if you're in the rift you're unaffected by anything that's in the normal reality (universe). It's really weird, but imma just use the word the codex uses "it's a different plane of existence".  But there is also the invsibility and stealth. So i wouldn't be so sure on reinhard realizing anything. He won't even get to realize another limbo exists. 

      Also the operator is a solar system away, could you clarify whether reinhard can sense him?

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    • PsychoWarper The 1-A range, It don't make sense why it has an 1-A attack potency but an 3-D range.

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    • Everything12 wrote:
      If Warframe needs a CRT, which both sides seem to agree with, then shouldn't that be taken of before we take this match any further, otherwise we are working with what  is possibly wrong information which could lead to the match results being removed and further wasting  everyone's time debating.

      Some stuff won't change, besides this is the most fun reinhard and limbo debate in ages geez. Idc whether this ends as fair or stomp for either side, this was pretty fun. 

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    • ABoogieYesSir wrote: PsychoWarper The 1-A range, It don't make sense why it has an 1-A attack potency but an 3-D range.

      Because its a 3-D object?

      I wanted to vote but the thread seems more of a stomp now, also I find it iffy that half of the wall of text of Limbo doesn't have any scans.

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    • monarch corrupted you guys into thinking that an object forged by Mercurius is only 3-D

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    • Paul Frank wrote: monarch corrupted you guys into thinking that an object forged by Mercurius is only 3-D

      You are right, my life is a lie and I feel sorry for falling in that corrupted reality

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:

      I wanted to vote but the thread seems more of a stomp now, also I find it iffy that half of the wall of text of Limbo doesn't have any scans.

      That's left to see, not all hope is lost.

      Well cus most of the warframe stuff is like the basic idea of his equipment. 

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote: Can Rein sense souls from a solar system away?

      @Warren hey can you answer this?

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      'Well' he is visibly there, but physically in another dimension. Will the spear work then? This gives a wrong idea. This is limbo being in another dimension but still there. Rift and Reality overlap. They are the same, but if you're in the rift you're unaffected by anything that's in the normal reality (universe). It's really weird, but imma just use the word the codex uses "it's a different plane of existence".  But there is also the invsibility and stealth. So i wouldn't be so sure on reinhard realizing anything. He won't even get to realize another limbo exists. 

      Also the operator is a solar system away, could you clarify whether reinhard can sense him?

      You mean sort of like Marie but on a much lower level? Yeah, the spear will work. 

      She's described as "there, but not there". As she actually resides in the Twilight Beach - outside of The Throne's reach. But just sort of shows up in Ren's arm as well. Her nature is very weird and confusing. 

      Reinhard doesn't need to sense someone - he could just see them. If Limbo is far away to not be seen, then he's far away for the fight to be classified as Self-BFR.



      And I'm not sure. There might be a moment where Reinhard was stated to be able to sense the actions and members of the LDO from when he is sealed in Glads, but I don't really remember.

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    • Hmm well does she show up physically in Ren's arm or just like a mirage? If it's the former then it's not the same, if it's the latter (mirage, where she cannot interact with anything due to not being there) then it's the same.

      Limbo can go inviz, stealth, hiding, banish, blid spots, camoflage you name it. Trust me if Limbo doesn't want to Reinhard won't notice him, the ways to go stealth in warframe are groundbreaking. So he could literally wait out the glads (seeing what happened to the first limbo, he won't be trying to get in, but will lie in wait till glads goes out, since that will be after inconc, does this become an inconc then?

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    • Second technically, she can physically appear in the world if Ren materializes her though



      Yes it would be an incon if Limbo manages to stay stealthed and not get hit or have the operator get hit 

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    • Marie's soul inhabits Ren, and the Spear was shown to be able to affect her by quite literally removing her from Ren in three different occasions.

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:
      Hmm well does she show up physically in Ren's arm or just like a mirage? If it's the former then it's not the same, if it's the latter (mirage, where she cannot interact with anything due to not being there) then it's the same.

      Limbo can go inviz, stealth, hiding, banish, blid spots, camoflage you name it. Trust me if Limbo doesn't want to Reinhard won't notice him, the ways to go stealth in warframe are groundbreaking. So he could literally wait out the glads (seeing what happened to the first limbo, he won't be trying to get in, but will lie in wait till glads goes out, since that will be after inconc, does this become an inconc then?

      Why would Limbo go and fight someone he can't beat? And how would he know that Glads has a time limit - which I mentioned earlier might not be the case- and try and "wait it out"?

      Why wouldn't he just ignore Reinhard and leave? 

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    • Paul Frank wrote:

      Yes it would be an incon if Limbo manages to stay stealthed and not get hit or have the operator get hit 

      Rein can't be argued to sense as far as needed to find the operator though. And Limbo can stay stealthed all he wants. So inconc?

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    • Well you said soular system and Rein might be able to sense farther than that.

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    • Something about Glads, in IkaBey we are told that he activated his Briah and it has been like that sinces the beginning (3 months) but IIRC he never deactivated it, we were never told if he ever needed to deactivate his briah or if it ever runs out.

      Then in DI we are told that Isaac is the ine putting it on it's unlimited state.

      In short at the very least he can have his briah activated 3 months and possibly even more time.

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    • Warren Valion wrote:

      Why would Limbo go and fight someone he can't beat? And how would he know that Glads has a time limit - which I mentioned earlier might not be the case- and try and "wait it out"?

      Why wouldn't he just ignore Reinhard and leave? 

      They fight people like that daily. Fighting people as large as spaceships with immunities left and right, completely impervious to anything they do, yet they still find out what to do, the lotus sometimes gives hints, but in this case the lotus wouldn't know anything so the best strategy would be to wait it out. It's prett common to assume what was once a man will turn back to being just a man and not an outerversal castle. It's pretty normal to assume that, given that + the infinite stamina this looks like an inconc.

      It's never in character for the operator to just retreat and never come back. It has never happened in the lores for the operator to just go like "f this, im out, i'd rather not bother here". 

      @Psycho about the range if worst comes to worst Limbo could just BFR the operator into the rift. Rein wouldn't be able to sense him there, but he'd still control limbo from there and inconc it. 

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    • Rein's briah does deactivate in Iwkbey but if I'm not mistaken it lasts months, it was only after Glads merged with Isaak that it became eternal.

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    • Yeah but can The Operator control Limbo fromt the rift?

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    • Warren Valion wrote: And I'm not sure. There might be a moment where Reinhard was stated to be able to sense the actions and members of the LDO from when he is sealed in Glads, but I don't really remember.

      In Rea route IIRC, before the fight with shirou.

      He can see everything happening in the city.

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      Yeah but can The Operator control Limbo fromt the rift?

      Yep, he doesn't have low multiversal range on transferrence for nothing. 

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      They fight people like that daily. Fighting people as large as spaceships with immunities left and right, completely impervious to anything they do, yet they still find out what to do, the lotus sometimes gives hints, but in this case the lotus wouldn't know anything so the best strategy would be to wait it out. It's prett common to assume what was once a man will turn back to being just a man and not an outerversal castle. It's pretty normal to assume that, given that + the infinite stamina this looks like an inconc.

      It's never in character for the operator to just retreat and never come back. It has never happened in the lores for the operator to just go like "f this, im out, i'd rather not bother here". 

      If this guy is really as strong will as you say he is, why would he hide from Reinhard's vision?

      Where's the logic in "waiting it out" when you don't know that your character has a limit to how long they can hold an ability? 

      Wouldn't the next logical step be to fight Reinhard, but outside of the castle so he doesn't get disconnected?

      Reinhard would then send out his legion to fight Limbo, either they win or Limbo wins - either way, Limbo has either impressed or bored Reinhard, and it is likely for him to throw out the spear, which is game over.

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    • I mean Reinhard could enter the Rift via Glad.

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    • Tony di bugalu wrote:

      Warren Valion wrote: And I'm not sure. There might be a moment where Reinhard was stated to be able to sense the actions and members of the LDO from when he is sealed in Glads, but I don't really remember.

      In Rea route IIRC, before the fight with shirou.

      He can see everything happening in the city.

      Which fight? The fight between Ren and Shirou on the roof?

      And what range would that give him though?

      Anyway, I think it is larger than Solar System, meaning he can find The Operator and take him out.

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    • Dziga wrote:
      Rein's briah does deactivate in Iwkbey but if I'm not mistaken it lasts months, it was only after Glads merged with Isaak that it became eternal.

      I explicitly remember Reinhard's Briah never deactivating, so I believe you are mistaken. 

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    • In Dies Irae it never wears off. The whole point of Isaak merging with Glads was to make it so it doesn't deactivate. It's stated very blatantly in Iwkbey that Glads can only last months.

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    • Dziga wrote:
      In Dies Irae it never wears off. The whole point of Isaak merging with Glads was to make it so it doesn't deactivate. It's stated very blatantly in Iwkbey that Glads can only last months.

      It was stated that Reinhard has kept it active for 3 months and that Reinhard didn't even show any strain from having out even though other Hadou-type Briah can only last for a few moments at best.

      It was a comparison between the members of the LDO and Reinhard to show how much greater Reinhard is, there was no specific limit ever stated and IIRC, Wihilem theorized it might be indefinite.

      The whole point of have Issak merge with Glads is to start the first step into having Reinhard being to emanate his law and overwrite the World of Foreknowledge, not to make it so his Briah stays up indefinitely.


      Anyway, I got to go for now, so I won't be able to answer any more questions for a while.

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    • "The duration of how long Reinhard can manifest his Briah is tremendously greater than that of other Hadou Briah users, being able to keep it active for as long as 2-3 months whereas any other of his legion is able to have it active for just a few minutes at the most; This duration being when Issac was not implanted into the castle (whereupon doing so later eliminated this weakness and allows Reinhard to have it on indefinitely)." <- Reinhard's profile.

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    • There is always a reason to assume there is a time limit rather than not having. It's a castle, he'll just be waiting to ambush the dude when he comes out. It's logical to assume he'll at some point get out. 

      Warframes have a pretty bad reputation now, but the warframes are ninja's btw. They are not brawlers waiting and sneak attacking is pretty in character usually. 

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    • PsychoWarper wrote:
      I mean Reinhard could enter the Rift via Glad.

      That's true but he will have no idea the operator is there. So it'd just be Limbo waiting in castle and Rein waiting in Glads till inconc. 

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    • Firephoenixearl wrote:

      They are not brawlers . 

      Atlas and Hildryn say hello

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    • Paul Frank wrote:
      Firephoenixearl wrote:

      They are not brawlers . 

      Atlas and Hildryn say hello

      That's Atlas, Hildryn and Rhino though, not Limbo. Even they are called ninjas for some reason, so yes fite me. I think DE just forgets the whole "spaceninjas" concept from time to time. 

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    • So this an inconc via neither side being able to do anything?

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