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  • Hi Dragomer, I believe a while back you had said that you don’t agree with 2-C standards on the wiki. Can you tell why if this is true?

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    • Simple, most vers simply don't use the 'infinit gap' thing, just like DB (and most anime) ignore the the 'infinit gap' thing between 3-A and low 2-C.

      It simply make sense to use a tiering systeme that rely on difference not acknowledged by most fictional stuff out there.

      That and it just doesn't make sense to count time as superior to 3D, time without 3D mean nothing, if you collapse space, time will dissapear as well.

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    • Ok. So what would you be proposing?

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:
      Ok. So what would you be proposing?

      Just simple stuff, you fuse A3 and low 2-C since most universe don't make a difference and you either make 2-C just destroying multilple universe at once or you make it 'can destroy a infinit number of universe'.

      No need to start using space-time as a mesure of power with that systeme and the systeme itself is much easier to understand.

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    • I see

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    • I’m back and I have a revision project that’s kinda in the works so I’ll post it below. For now I’m going to sleep.

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    • - COSMOLOGY

      To start this off I’d like to bring the meat of everything in the argument. https://m.imgur.com/gallery/moLe6pv According to what’s in the link Buuhan’s vice shout would destroy the walls between dimensions. These walls are directly compared to the walls that were torn between the time chamber and the living world, which is a space time feat of course. These walls are also stated to be between dimensions. These dimensions are the makai, world of the Kai, the afterlife, and the living universe. If these walls reside between the dimensions then that means each dimension is separate effectively making U7 a 2-C structure.


      - CANONICITY AND CREDIBILITY

      The main argument against this would be: “It’s filler so it’s not canon”. Normally I would agree that filler isn’t necessary but I found this: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/toriyama/ Under the section where it says “Dragon Ball Cosmos Map” it has written text and a quote from Toriyama himself that states the following.

      “In his Daizenshuu 4 interview, Toriyama mentions first drawing the map of the Dragon Ball cosmos —> featured in Daizenshuu 4 and later guide books for the anime staff.” <—

      “For God’s temple, I gave it a comparatively mysterious feeling, but on the other hand I thought it’d be good to have the afterlife be realistic. So Enma-daiō and the oni all wore suits like salary-men. I think you can see this by looking at the world map in this book, but there’s a thing called the airport to Heaven. The background on that is that the people who go to Heaven all have to go by plane. —>This complete map was originally background information that I drew at the request of the anime people, but I took this opportunity to add the Kaiōshin World, which wasn’t included in the complete map before, to make it perfect. In truth, this complete world map is something I made after I finished drawing the story, to make everything consistent. <— (laughs)”

      This is extremely important because it’s evident that Toriyama made the U7 map for the daizenshuu, guides, and the anime as it states above. Toriyama intended to use the map for material that aren’t in his manga. It’s like giving Toei the drafts for the DBS Anime and letting them do what they want with it, because he’s giving them the info for the anime staff and they’re promoting it as well as informing people. I don’t think it’s reasonable to push aside such strong evidence especially because it’s the best we got for explaining the cosmology. I even want to mention a little double standard that kinda went over people’s heads.

      This thread for example: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:2732988?useskin=oasis is supposed to upgrade the size of U7 but across the entire continuity. It includes Toei characters, manga characters, DBS characters, and GT characters. This is where my issue stands. If one blog can suddenly affect the universe size in all of Dragon Ball, then there’s no reason to assume that material that’s actually in the anime is invalid.

      It’s not just the anime either, it’s in the daizenshuu and in guides and the U7 map was made for those things to begin with. If Toriyama make the map for these things that means he was involved in it, and if he’s involved in a certain project then that means it’s likely canon. Especially since it was all his intention. The least we could do is make it a possibility.


      - STATISTICS

      This will be about the BoG feat. Now I’m going to talk about this into detail on why it’s not 3-A and why 3-A makes no sense narratively.

      Starting with the narrative, Beerus is a God of Destruction that seeks the Super Saiyan God, who will be a formidable opponent for him. Every single one of the Z fighters are fodder to him and are no where near his casual fighting level. Enter Super Saiyan God Goku the savior of earth from the wrath of Lord Beerus. With the help of god Ki, Goku is able to match a casual Beerus in a fight, to where even the Kai think Beerus is going all out. However Beerus was holding back but he still thinks that Goku and Vegeta are formidable opponents and even the other GoDs and Gowasu think that Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza’s power rival the Gods.

      So let me explain why 3-A makes no sense. All the GoDs are low 2-C because they can destroy the universe and are superior to Mugen Zamasu. Look at every time “Universe” is ever said in Dragon Ball. They never ever say physical universe or space time universe, it’s just “Universe”. For example when it’s stated that Zeno would destroy the universe, we know that the space time continuum is gone. When Zamasu was said to be becoming the universe, he was made out of space time. Why would Beerus and Goku destroying the universe be considered 3-A when any other time they say it they refer to low 2-C? This also goes back to the BoG ark. Goku had 3-D power and was no match for a being who has 4-D power. Goku going from 4-B to 3-A would mean he’s still infinitely weaker than Beerus and it would make the fight pointless. Goku also has access to God Ki, why would God Ki not put Goku on the same dimensional AP as a God of Destruction, the literal users of God Ki? Going back to how casual Beerus works it should be like this.

      All characters with 3-D AP aren’t worth the thrill of the Fight. Goku goes ssg which has 4-D AP so he could at least fight Beerus. Beerus is able to actually enjoy his fight. Even though he’s still holding back against Goku, it makes more sense to be an arbitrary percentage instead of infinity+. It’s even consistent with the story where Base Goku was fighting Monoka Beerus and Beerus was actually having fun because Goku’s power was at least worth a damn.

      As for the BoG feat itself. I’ll just quickly say that the punches that released the shockwaves were just bait and chip damage that destroyed distant planets. It was really one punch that was gonna obliterate the universe if hit incorrectly. Also I’d like to mention that Old Kai and Kabito Kai thought Beerus was going all out and they thought that the fight would kill Beerus and Goku. Must I remind you that these Kai should know damn well that Beerus their destroyer can destroy the universe.

      If you think about it 4-D DBS characters from the stats makes sense. Goku was stated to have power that rivals the Gods by Gowasu and Jerez. 3-D power in no way shape or form rivals 4-D power. Frieza was seen as a major threat to Sidra, who thought would have a hard time destroying Frieza. Frieza was also able to completely overpower Sidra’s hakai with high difficulty, that’s definitely saying something. Toppo was also a GoD candidate even though he was infinitely times inferior to rest of the GoDs.

      Having characters 3-A just over complicates things especially when you have characters who are 3-A fighting low 2-Cs and actually doing some type of damage despite being weaker. It even makes universal statements a lot more satisfying and simple. You don’t have to think about if they meant this universal or that universal because there’s only one true meaning to it.


      - CONCLUSION

      O my goodness there’s a lot to talk about in this thread.

      I think the best idea is all 3-A and low 2-C characters become “low 2-C possibly 2-C”. The Daishinkan should be “at least low 2-C possibly 2-C”. There’s enough evidence for the realms being separate but it’s never completely stated but implied. So it’s safest to assume that a 2-C U7 is a possibility.

      I don’t know about the manga characters but that’s a much later time.

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    • Honestly i agree but i doubt the wiki will accept it, any DB upgrade is always a chore and take a lot of time for people to accept.

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    • You should also point out how the japanese definition for 'universe' fit with Low 2-C instead of 3-A

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    • I did it’s in the conclusion.

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    • Zamasu Chan wrote:
      I did it’s in the conclusion.

      Ah okay, i hadn't read that part yet ^^

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    • Sorry to say that but your upgrade is probably going to be refused now that this Matt guy said he disagreed unless you really get lots of support, staff always go with his shit.

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    • Told ya.

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    • A FANDOM user
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