well, for the cade one- he cant possibly be well above either of them, since A) that would make cade a windu/yoda/sidious lvl combatant, which is not true, and would make krayt, who is stronger than him, even higher. and B) if u wanna stretch it, he became even stronger, while wyyrlock could even fight him on semi even terms, making wyyrlock stronger than or equal to windu and yoda lvl people. so no, not at all. besides for that, its actually really good and well done. like, really good job. imma go read the krayt page now
krayt is almost just as bad, tbh. him easily overpowering anakin as a padawan puts him on dooku/maul lvls of power, who are literally just under or semi equal to mace windu. thats not happening. him in the abeloth book series- have not read a single one of those, so i wont even comment. and the next part seems ok. like i said, they are well done, but we gotta facts and scalling straight first tbh. overwise, we would have padawans stronger than dooku, and cade who could fight krayt at his prime being>>>>>>> that same padawan. see what i mean?
because vader is literally the tier under yoda and co per the show. he is listed as at least here as well. what u are saying means that krayt reborn would make him>>>> to vader, which cant possibly be the case, since eu vader is stronger than de luke, gethzerion, and all other force users in the galaxy by the time rotj, which also includes krayt and yoda (old and dying yoda, but yoda nonetheless). he is also stronger murr, a guy who one shot krayt in his armor. so yeah. makes sense now? and btw, just cuz the 'wiki says so', doest make it word of god. i have said this many times, but this verse needs a revision asap.
dude, can u not read what i wrote? i know what tiers they are on. and i dont care. this verse needs a revision. vader is factually the tier below, in the show, which is, guess what, magically above what the wiki says, yoda's tier. he is also strongest than any other being in the galaxy excluding sidious. and back at u, btw. his tier is at least 5B. meaning he is>> 5B in tier my dude lol
.... and? he also considered luke, who at the time was much, much weaker than vader, as well as galen marek, who ye again, was much weaker than he was when he chose them to be his help in overthrowing sidious. and yes, he is stronger than muur.
proof? based on what? does the statement "second strongest being" mean nothing? how about "stronger than DE luke"? maybe "comparable to gethzerion" could make it work? all, and every single one of them is>>>> muur
because of...? i gave facts above. based on the verse. made by people there. if we discredit that, we might as well discredit sidious being the strongest sith ever, or yoda the strongest jedi ever. mace wouldnt be the second strongest in the order, nor would any person with the title "strongest of his era" be more than a normal force user. i have noticed this for awhile now. we completely ignore shit like this, then go and put all our faith into something that is exactly the same lol
Well for one Vitiate exists, Cronal (Who im currently working on making) is a character stated by Luke to be equal in power to Sidious, Kar Vastor (Another im making) is outright stated to be stronger, faster and more powerful than Mace Windu and is stated to be comparable to Cronal, Sidious fears Gethzerion, Mother Talzin is equal to Sidious, Krayt at his peak dwarfs him in power for being able to fight Abeloth, Darth Caedusand Lumiya (Who i am also working on) are equal to Luke when he fought and defeated Sidious
Luke is far stronger than Yoda, Jaina Solo is equal to Caedus, Depa Billaba was equal to Mace Windu, i'll post more when i find them
vitiate was called the strongest yes. dont even disagree on that. then we have plageuis being called the strongest after him, so he is at least equal to him (which we dont talk or list about, for some reason). if we go by the fact that he considers jedi doou a threat, and yoda is stronger than dooku, then we know that vitiate cant be as strong as either mace windu, yoda, or even sidious during the phantom menace. and sith dooku could actually be moved up to 4B given how many of his statements are almost the same as windu's. ( thanks for making cronal, btw. hope to see that. have been waiting for it tbh lol). kar vastor is strongest than mace, so he is 4B, and cronal is stronger than him according to u, so cronal is also 4B. since vader is stronger than both, he should also be 4B alongside starkiller. since anakin is equal to vastor according to windu, rots anakin is also 4B. as per a new hope, vader is even stronger than anakin, so he is yet again 4B, and since old kenobi fought him, old kenobi is also 4B. as for caedus and lumiya- neither gave force based trouble to luke at all. like, absolutly nothing, so they should not, i repeat, should scale to luke, but should scale to kyp durron who has force powers comparable to old man kenobi, which would make him 4B, and since caedus is stronger than that, he stays in 4B. i dont disagree with him being 4B, i disagree with him scaling to luke. and jaina is not equal to caedus. she herself and luke say so. at max, she would be 4B by scaling off of kyp durron as well, but she is not as strong as him at all. ever. and depa bilaba does not scale to mace since the fight was purely light saber based as far as i remember. she would scale above kit fisto and such, but nothing more, i think. and last but not least, exar kun being stronger than any other person in the jedi order excluding luke would also make him 4B, since he is stronger than kyp durron. tell me what u think. sorry for the long essay lol
i love how u say that, but have given absolutly nothing to back that up. btw, im out unless u actually start trying. i dont really care what u guys here in the wiki think, so long as it isnt ridiculous. i can live with people having different opinions, but not when they are shoved down my throat
WeeklyBattles wrote: Cronal is outright stated by Luke to be equal in power to Sidious
Kar Vastor is outright stated to be stronger, faster and more powerful than Mace Windu and is stated to be comparable to Cronal
This is what I mean. Mace Windu with an amp is a direct equal to a weaker version of Sidious. So why should they be placed above DE Sidious?
Sidious fears Gethzerion
Mother Talzin is equal to Sidious
Both of those statements happened before Dark Empire though
Krayt at his peak dwarfs him in power for being able to fight Abeloth
Darth Caedus and Lumiya are equal to Luke when he fought and defeated Sidious
Didn't Krayt force drain her? I don't really remember the fight well so I can't comment. But Caedus was pretty easily stomped by Luke and only did well when he was distracted by something to my memory.
Although, to clarify, I'm not saying that Caedus isn't 4-B. Even if I generally disagree with the rating he does scale to that level (MCU Iron Man is Tier 6 for doing significantly worse against his scaling opponent than Jacen for example). My issue is with the statements of Sith being stronger than a Prime Sidious when I don't think there's anything backing that up.
Mother Talzin is weaker than Sidious. When they meet before Sidious was in his prime, she senses that Sidious is much stronger than her and this is whiy she lets Sidious take Maul to train without a fight in Restraint. When they fight in Son of Dathomir, he stomps her in Sabers easily and then basically solo's her in two panels. By the way, this takes place before Darth Plagueis' death, and Luceno thinks Sidious would've lost to him at the time he killed Plagueis
Plagueis > Talzin
Lumiya and Caedus are not equal to Luke at all, he can sit Caedus' ass down in a chair and keep him from moving if he wants to, and he killed Lumiya.
Ignoring the Mace vs Sidious argument for a moment, Kar Vastor fought Mace Windu on a Dark Side Nexus (Haruun Kal). If they fought on neutral ground, Mace would beat him.
Depa also wasn't equal to Mace for the same reason, as she gained power from tapping into the Dark Side while Mace didn't. Before you bring up swordsmanship, please note that force sensitivity often grants instinctive skill, so to speak.
When Luke said that, he hadn't felt the true power of Palpatine yet, as he died in 5 ABY, while Palpatine returned in 10 ABY. If Palpatine went all out in ROTJ, he would've killed Luke rather than torture him.
Jaina Solo isn't equal to Caedus at all, wtf?
Palpatine > Vitiate
And Luke isn't that far above Yoda, in all honesty.
@bruce, dont worry, i tried lol we'll go over this someday. just not now. and like i said, weekly, i like the profiles. so much, that i would actually like u do a few star wars profiles for me please? i have a list of important characters that we dont have. would u like to do them?
im not gonna spam on u, so ill give u two important ones, or ones that i know u wont do anyhow. sarasu taalon, for one. both his previous state, and post pool of knowledge. stronger than luke, and faster as well, he also knows almost... well, everything, post pool of knowledge lol joruus c'baoth is the other one. the guy is like, a monster. his jedi self (the original) was already a beast based of off hype and shit (comparable, but weaker than dooku for sure), while his clone, with all his previous memories (except his jedi training, so he had to 'start over' with the dark side), and some dark side training is literally as strong as vader and cronal. could fight luke a year before dark empire, and was winning most of the time.
ps, important, please tell me who ur already gonna do, so i can know whom to tell u, and if u got discord or something, tell me
ok.... that would mean that his punch is stronger than luke's full powered force push, which yet another reason for me to disagree with this scaling- it seems incredibly unreliable, especially considering his later showings... i agree with having that one key at like 4A, but none of the others ones should be like that. his other showings are pure shit lol