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  • DarkDragonMedeus
    DarkDragonMedeus closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    20:34, February 21, 2019

    Alright, so this is my first time doing a content revision thread. So pls don’t kill me if things aren’t correct, or not organized. I’m a noob at this, and here I am doing kinda justice with this series. As me and Chrisras discussed what needed to be added into this series, an addition to coming up with a new god tier character that is important within the Earthbound story as a whole. I’ll start off with the easy, yet long one part, powers and abilities addition. (This will include equipments absent in Mother 1, 3, and 3.) And from there, I’ll talk about Pokey Minch, since he’s missing abilities. After that, I’ll finally disscuss about a mysterious, new god tier character that is responsible for the events in Earthbound. Alright, here goes nothing.

    Powers and abilities addition

    Easy, but rather long. I’ll start off with Ness:

    - Durability revised to At least Universal level+: Managed to survive against Giygas attack and hold his defense. Shielded the party from Giygas attack. As every time Giygas attack, the text reads “You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas attack!

    - Reality Warping Or Universal Creation: Created Magicant, which is a whole universe with a space time continuum. This ability might not be allowed in combat, but with this ability, Ness has been able create items and bring them to the real world. He can also have characters that represent his courage (and aid him in battle) or previous enemies that he has fought. Magicant is a place of wonder and imagination (as the players guide describes it)

    - Space-Time Manipulaton Or Matter Manipulation: Same reasons as Reality warping


    - Is protected under Fate and Probability Manipulaton via “Truth of the universe” (added to 7-C and Low 2-C, also added to the choosen 4, Lucas, and Claus): Truth Controls a "universal system", of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. The Truth was stated to be responsible of controlling destiny “. Apple Kid, a genius scientist, described the probability of Ness winning against Giygas as just a 1% against 99%, yet, Ness's courage managed to pull the 1% victory, although this is mostly attributed to the “Truth of the universe”. Is described as having the power to ”change cosmic events” in the Earthbound guide book. If you want more details and info, you can look into “The New god tier character” section.

    - Self-resurrection (Both 7-C and Low 2-C): This one could be debatable, but I think it should apply. When one of your party members “collapsed” some dialogue changes (for example: When you save Paula and she collapses in a battle, her parents would say that she hasn’t appeared despite feeling her presence as shown here.) that implys that your party had indeed died (they have a ghost sprite) So with Ness losing a battle, you’re given an option to come back and fight again. It’s possible that “Truth of the universe” is behind this. And it was confirmed that losing a battle was different in MOTHER 3, so this maybe could apply.

    - Minor Resistance to Time stop (For the choosen 4): Ness and Jeff are capable of briefly dodging an attack from the Dali’s clock, who’s notable power is to stop time. The enemy appear in both Moonside and within Dungen man so this ability could apply to Paula and Poo as well.

    Fourth wall awareness and breaking: Able to communicate with one of the game designers (Reminds me of the Annoying Dog from Undertale. Coincidence? It’s also possible that the dog is Mr Itoi himself, he also views Earthbound as fiction as he tells the player about the game and tells them to send in an email to Nintendo to receive a prize.) and knows he’s inside a game. (Within Magicant, Buzz Buzz tomb stone reads “This is Buzz Buzz’s tombstone. He appeared earlier in the game and gave up the ghost before he could achieved his goal.

    Alright, so here’s a thing about Ness’s hypnosis ability (and thanks to this thread so more info is on that thread) Hypnosis description states that the target will fall asleep unless they’re “highly intelligent”. This is incorrect. EarthBound’s status formulas use Luck, not IQ. This could also in turn follow game mechanics since it relies on a different status.

    Alright, so now onto Giygas:

    Abstract existence (Type 1): I Feel like it’s a stretch, but I’ll proceed with it anyway. Giygas is referred to as “evil energy” and an entity “made” of evil. The English translation out right says that Giygas is the “Embodiment of evil itself” (Though, appearantly a mistranslation) This is shown through Giygas having the power to influence people who have evil thoughts, even shown to work against Ness as he was fighting against his evil side in Magicant.

    Passive Mind manipulation (7-A and Low 2-C): His mere presence caused global chaos and turned people and animals violent and evil. Inanimate objects also came to life, along with the dead. People with “Bad” Or “Evil” thoughts are in Giygas control so that he can attack those who oppose him.

    Tier revised to “At least Low 2-C”: Effortlessly destroyed the universe in the future and was going to do the same in the past and present timeline if not stopped. Superior to Post Magicant Ness, who became one with the universe.

    Range revised to Low Multiversal: Erased Paulas call for help, which was going towards the player in another universe. Can attack through time and spread his influence through different timelines.

    -Passive Void Manipulation: When the devil machine was turned off, Giygas true power was unleashed, the scenario turns into a black void which is stated to be a Dimension of Darkness that Giygas creates, the same darkness that erased everything in the future where buzz buzz came from. Unconsciously erased Paula pray for help.

    Illusion creation via the Mani Mani Statue: The Mani Mani Statue was used by Giygas and one of its main abilities is creating a psychic illusion to fool people, this illusion is called Moonside.

    Alright, yay. Giygas is done.

    Now onto Resistance via equipments absent in Mother 1, 2, and 3’s profile. Now, these items should be allowed since in the Earthbound players guide (Page 126) quotes “Many of these items are strange verisons of average, everyday things”. They treat them as different items from the real world and actually having powers. So these should be allowed. I’ll start with Mother 1.

    - Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulaton, Electricity Manipulation, Resistance to OHK, and The Sea Pendant says it’ll “reduce damage” against all PSI attacks. All of that added to protagonist.


    Ok, so that was very simple, lol. Onto Mother 2 items!

    Items:
    

    -Transformation: Via bag of dragonite, they can transform into a fire breathing dragon to do massive damage.

    -Statistics Amplification: Can boost their durability via Defense spray.

    -Ectoplasm Manipulation and Poison Manipulation: Via Pharao's course, can summon an ectoplasmic ooze to poison the enemy.

    -Sound Manipulation: Via Stag Beetle “throwing this at the enemy during battle, the enemy is shocked and stops moving. Gone after one use

    Equipment (which you can look here):

    Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, OHKO, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, and Sleep Manipulation) via Pendants and Bracelets (here and here)

    Standard Equipment

    Teddy bears (Yes, a 7-C Teddy Bear. One that is above baseline since it survived 20 kilos.)

    As you can see, Mother 2 has a lot of equipments that are pretty handy.

    Now onto Mother 3.

    - Explosion Manipulaton via Bombs, Super Bombs, and Pencil Rockets.

    - Possible Durability Negation via The New Year’s Eve bomb, after one use, it leaves the opponent with 1 HP.

    -Statistics Amplification via offense and defense spray.

    -Can break physical and psychic shields with Shield Snatcher (for Protagonists).

    -Sound Manipulation via Siren Beetle for Duster: Makes enemies turn around due to a deafening noise.

    - Throws in some weird scent to attract Bee’s, I really don’t know what ability that falls under in. But that’s with the Honey Shower (Calls a swarm of bees to attack a person.) (lol 7-C bees)

    Equipments:

    - Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Electricity Manipulaton, Ice Manipulaton, OHK, Status Effect Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, Sleep Manipulation, and Poison), and healing (brings back health every turn.) with special clothing, bracelets and Pendants (here)

    Great, we are done with Powers and Abilities for the series! Well, kinda. Now we are moving onto Pokey Minch missing abilities, an addition to justifying his intellect more.


    Pokey Minch, aka Kid who’s a dictator

    So this kid is missing abilities from his profiles and I think his intellect needs to be more justified (which I’m here to fix.)


    “Throws one or multiple bombs/energy projectiles at all enemies to deal heavy damage.“ possible Explosion Manipulaton


    “Numbs (paralyses) an enemy” “Causes crying (decrease in accuracy) to all enemies”.- Status Effect inducement (Paralysis and uncontrollably crying)

    “Absorbs an enemy's HP.“- Life Absorptions


    His intelligence should have more info like becoming a dictator, mechanizing animals, is pretty cunninng, and can organize a huge army, modernized Tazmily, captured Claus and turned him into the Masked Man.

    And that’s about it for this kid.

    New god tier character, “Truth of the universe”

    Now, for the moment you’ve been waiting for. And as mentioned above for Ness, you are probably asking yourself “who’s this truth entity present in Earthbound?” “Whys he important?” I’ll try my best to answer this (Credits to Chrisras for suggesting this, he made pretty great points and made a sandbox character of “Truth” that I’ll be taking info from. The truth of the universe is a mysterious entity present within MOTHER 2/Earthbound and alluded in MOTHER 3. The truth of the universe is a cosmic entity that's the embodiment of truth itself, it's both tiny and massive simultaneously, and watches the universe like a wave. It speaks to the universes that exist inside everyone (that being Magicant) and seems to control destiny as its responsible for the "universal system", of which selects "chosen one" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. In Earthbound, it was shown to communicate with Ness when he was drinking a cup of coffee in Saturn valley, and again in the Tenda village. It's also responsible for giving Ness enough power to confront Giygas. In Mother 3, it was shown to communicate with Lucas when he was drinking a cup of coffee in Saturn valley too. It's "2-C" because The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline. (So that’s Past, Present, Future where Giygas wins, 2 timelines where Ness wins, Ness’s Magicant and possibly others (though it was only Ness who was able to reach his full potential, other people in Earthbound can just visit it), and Mother 3. So about 7 universes, to possibly higher)

    Now for its abilities:

    - Non-Corporeal (Described has being like a "wave" that travels around the cosmos, It does not present any physical form in any of its appearances, mostly talking to the mind of the Chosen ones in an unknown way)

    - Non-Physical Interaction (Should be comparable to Ness, who can harm Intangible and Non corporal beings)

    - Abstract Existance (Type 1):The embodiment of "Truth" in the Earthbound world, also possible that it is the embodiment of the universe itself.)

    - Immortality (Type 5; The destruction of one universe where Giygas achieves his full power did not affect it in any way possible. The reset of reality in MOTHER 3 did not affect it either.)

    - Acausality (Type 1; Is not bound to conventional time)

    - Fate Manipulation (Controls a "universal system", of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. Stated of being the responsible of controlling destiny)

    - Probability Manipulation (Apple Kid, a genius scientist, described the probability of Ness winning against Giygas as just a 1% against 99%, yet, Ness's courage managed to pull the 1% victory, although this is mostly attributed to the Truth)

    (By the way, Probability and Fate were mentioned above for Ness, this should also apply to Paula, Jeff, and Poo as they are one of the Chosen 4. An addition to Lucas and The Masked Man for being the chosen one.)

    - Power Bestowal (Ness, just touching the Truth of the universe, managed to acquired the power necessary to confront Giygas)

    - Telepathy and Psychic abilities (Can comunicate through Ness's and Lucas's minds after they drink coffee. Should be capable of using PSI/PK attacks)

    - 4th Wall Awareness/Breaking (Can communicate with the player, and connect it's power with them)

    - Omniscient (Should be superior to Ness's. Described as the Supreme intelligence of the universe. Can alter destiny to choose what can happen)

    - Reality Warping

    Summary of everything so far

    Alrighty, so I’m gonna try my best to summarize things so far.

    Ness: The abilities in general seems to be fine with people with few exceptions like Fourth wall hax, and Self Ressurection, but the others are good.

    Giygas: People are fine with his new abilities, though Low Multiversal range seems iffy to some but I extended it to putting that his influence were able to reach the present timeline and that he can attack through time.


    Items: Yup, people are ok with them.

    Pokey: Yep, people are ok with this. (Though, I do feel like his intellect can maybe be buffed to extraordinary genius)

    Truth of the universe: People are both ok and iffy with this character, it’s abilities are ok for some, but I fixed stuff like Mind Manipulation to Telepathy and Psychic abilities.

    New edits

    A possible upgrade for all of the protagonist to Low 7-B: Ok, so in this thread, there were discussions going on about the current justification of 7-C rating, but it lead to an upgrade; Basically the 6th sanctuary boss (They are called Thunder and Storm, hint hint) are capable of using PK Thunder and generating storms in battle "These twin terrors attack with the power of the elements. Find shelter from the onslaught and use PSI powers to attack the two of them at once. " (From the Earthbound Players guide) Standard Storms are said to generate this much energy, and with The 6th sanctuary boss being considered a threat to all of Dalaam, I would say this is legit. There are also other feats such as the nuclear reactor robot being 20 kilos, The Krakens generating a tornado (Which should be around 8-A and Belch's feat of, after being defeated, spreading the cumulus nimbus that covers the entirety of Threed in an unknown time frame.


    One last edit for Ness: I feel like his Low 2-C form is need of more justification as it only states that he “Touch the Truth of The Universe” and overlapped the universe which allowed him to fight Giygas. Well, there is no mention of the creation of Magicant, Which was stated to be an entire universe. So, yeah and because he became the universe, he should gain the following abilities: Fusionism, Large Size (Type 8), Cosmic Awareness (Has Nigh-Omniscient, and is being guided by Truth), Higher-Dimensional Existence, and possibly Non-Corporeal.


    Alright, that’s all. Thank you for coming to read all of that and junk, just tell me what you think (politely pls, I’m a noob at this) and finally, Thank you for your cooperation.

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    • You know I already agree with most of this, so yeah, waiting for input.

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    • Ye, I’m just so hecking tired. Hopefully all of this gets through. And thanks for your inputs and support in this @Chrisras.

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    • I completely disagree with Fate and Probability manipulation. Ness only won with help from The Player, which Apple Kid couldn't have known about when he made those calculations. My memories to foggy about Mother to comment on the rest.

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    • The Wright Way wrote: I completely disagree with Fate and Probability manipulation. Ness only won with help from The Player, which Apple Kid couldn't have known about when he made those calculations. My memories to foggy about Mother to comment on the rest.

      Refer back to “Truth of the universe”. The whole the fight was destined, and in two Timeline he managed to pull the victory with the 1% of courage, which that itself is referred in the story (when Ness was drinking coffee in Saturn Valley) This is how he got through the whole adventure without fully dying. (Also thanks for commenting)

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    • DaBigP wrote:

      The Wright Way wrote: I completely disagree with Fate and Probability manipulation. Ness only won with help from The Player, which Apple Kid couldn't have known about when he made those calculations. My memories to foggy about Mother to comment on the rest.

      Refer back to “Truth of the universe”. The whole the fight was destined, and in two Timeline he managed to pull the victory with the 1% of courage, which that itself is referred in the story (when Ness was drinking coffee in Saturn Valley) This is how he got through the whole adventure without fully dying. (Also thanks for commenting)

      You ignored my point. The 1% thing was predicted by a guy who didn't know that The Player, the guy who actually killed Giygas, would get involved or that he even existed. And being chosen by some magic being doesn't mean anything unless it's outright stated that's the only reason he won. Anakin Skywalker was destined to bring balance to the force and was chosen by the force itself, doesn't give him this kind of stuff, so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same for Ness.

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    • I'm kinda with The Wright Way here, but I do think we should talk about a resistance I think Ness and his friends should get.

      That is of course if you want to hear it, if not I can just stick with the discussion at hand.

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    • Sure thing. I’ll comment about Probability and Fate later since this ties in with the character “Truth of the universe” but if you wish, you may look here to see more info on it.

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    • So me and Chrisras talked a little bit about this on the my wall, but basically...

      There is a specific enemy that pops up called the Dali's Clock and as you can read. It stops time and attacks you. But each characters are able to dodge said attack. Therefore, each character and 7-C ness should have resistance to time stop. At least enough to dodge attacks in stopped time.

      The most common argument against this is that, you only fight this boss in Moonside, which is all just an illusion. But as you can see on these websites: https://earthbound.fandom.com/wiki/Dali%27s_Clock https://wikibound.info/wiki/Dali%27s_Clock


      The clock does in fact spawn in the Dungeon Man, or in other words, in the real world.

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    • I mean Ness already resist Time Manipulaton, but other than that, I agree (since this is for 7-C specifically and for the others.)

      As for “Truth of the Universe”

      It’s responsible for giving Ness enough power to confront Giygas, and all the kid did was just touch it and bam, Low 2-C. That’s not even Truth’s full power at all (if Ness fully merged with it, the whole Giygas vs Ness would’ve been a big stomp for the child. As well as earning many exp.) It also can control destiny as the whole fight was already fated (as I said before, Ness won against Giygas in two timelines and pulled the victory off with his courage but it’s likely that Truth is behind it. It isn’t just the player who helped contribute to the victory. No, it isn’t some weird magic that says “save the world cuz this thing said so” No. Ness is a chosen one not the chosen one.

      “'The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man. Your coming here, my waiting here… It was all predestined truth.

      Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo… When these four forces meet, the twisting cosmos will breathe calmly once more. - Talah Rama”

      “At last, you speak to me. Listen well, Ness. I am about to tell you something so important that you should probably write this down. Ready? You are a chosen one. Your destiny is not yours alone… It is part of a universal “system”. The time will come when every part of you will become one (note: or overlap) with every part of the universe. You must listen to the sounds of all eight power spots. Defeating Gyiyg without doing so will be impossible. Do you understand, Ness? The moment when your destiny becomes one with the destiny of the universe… is close at hand.” (I shortened the Quote.)

      Can be said the same in MOTHER 3 ”It says only those with the power of PK Love can pull the seven Needles. Not even we Magypsies have that ability. In other words, you're able to pull the Needles because you’re a chosen boy. - Ionia”

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    • The only reason victory happened at is because of the player. Destiny or not, Ness was getting demolished before the player showed up and obliterated Giygas.

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    • Again, back to the Anakin example. Anakin was destined to meet The Ones, destined to use both sides of The Force, and destined to destroy the Sith. No matter what happened, those events would've transpired. If the Player didn't show up when it did, Ness would be dead.

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    • Giygas “obliterating” Ness is why I’m giving the kid Self-resurrection and a durability upgrade. Also this:
      88E8C836-6B9A-428E-BD79-7AC0194B3870

      However, I myself have questions...

      Anyway, I’m going to back away from Probability and Fate Manipulaton, since that’s not the only ability on there. And, uh. Ya got any inputs on the other powers and abilities? Or everything in general about this whole revision despite the “foggy” memory? (It’s alright if ya don’t, I’ll wait for others to put their inputs)

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    • Nope, sorry.

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    • It’s quite alright. I’ll just sit here in my chair, probably hoping maybe an Admin like Cal would put his input on this.

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    • Bump blocks the way!

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      2A154C1E-00F4-4D27-A71F-39D016CDD4A7

      Attention all Earthbound gamers!

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    • Where's the proof that Magicant is an entire universe? Having its own Space-Time doesn't automatically make it one; otherwise Kami and Mr Popo would be Low 2-C. I also disagree with Fate and/or probability manipulation, since it was The Player who defeated Giygas, not Ness. I'm neutral regarding, At least, but feel it is unnecessary. Ness merging with Space-Time is the primary reason Giygas can't destroy the universe instantaneously; so Ness isn't that much weaker than Giygas actually. However, being superior or Space-Time bust being casual doesn't automatically grant an "At least". As for range, it's not necessarily that Giygas nulled Low-Multiversal range, but rather it was Universal+ range that was nulled and the 10th player was what was Low-Multiversal and couldn't be nulled by Giygas.

      Giygas' passive hax abilities all look good however. Abstract Existence, Mind manipulation, Void manipulation, and Illusion creation all look good IMO. For the equipment abilities, Bag of Dragonite sounds more like Transformation rather than Transmutation; then again, the sounds kinda similar. And I wouldn't call the Fly Honey summoning rather than the scent attracts bees. The rest of the equipment looks good though.

      Pokey's stuff look good, but I also notice some of his other stuff looks outdated. Mostly the wordings for his Absolute safety capsule. And as for the "Truth of the Universe" being a character; I'm quite iffy on that.

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    • Thanks for leaving a reply, I’ll respond soon.

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    • Howdy, I am back. Sorry for the late response.

      Your question about Magicant: here, and here This has also been discussed in the past to justify Ness’s Low 2-C tier, he as well “touched the truth of the universe” (look at the Japanese text for the first link, it’s pretty interesting compared to the English Translation). He creates and absorbs Magicant.

      I’ll talk about Fate/Probability tomorrow since I’m too tired to talk about it in a detailed response, however, I’ll leave this here (since I could’ve rephrased it a bit): Protected under Probability and Fate Manipulaton because of the mysterious entity that I mentioned above.

      At least Low 2-C Giygas: I thought earning an “At least” rating was to do something casual or effortless (like what it says in Giygas’s page) since characters like Rosalina is capable of effortlessly Warping the universe and creating it. If this is true, then Ness could get a dura upgrade, or am I missing something? (Since the profile describes him as being superior to Post Magicant Ness)

      Everything else looks good I guess (What do you think about Ness getting Fourth wall breaking/awareness and Self resurrection (which I have a feeling that it is just game mechanics or something like that.) (Happy Thanksgiving btw)

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    • Not sure on Truth of the Universe and Probability and Fate stuff, but everything else sounds good.

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    • I don’t know if you are allowed to “be protected under an ability” since Truth of the universe controls a “universal system” of which selects "Chosen ones" when the universe is in danger to save it, when these people are selected, they are "destined" to defeat the evil that presents the danger, in any way possible. (yeah, I was too lazy on that part) This also goes with Probability Manipulaton (as in the Players guide, they described Ness as having the power to change “cosmic” events and that Ness’s own “courage” messed up Giygas’s plan. However, I could be wrong.)

      Truth of the universe, in my opinion, could be a new god tier character due to playing roles and contributions within the game, and present in Mother 3. It’s responsible for giving Ness the power necessary to confront Giygas when he defeated the evil part in his mind. When Ness touched Truth of the universe, he had gain immense power and ultimate intelligence. But that’s up to you guys and so far only two agrees with this entity being a character.

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      3CB710F3-D45B-4839-B956-8370D0CF59E8

      This is it right here. I feel like it’s referring to Magicant

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      One question: This might be a little too much to ask (and I do apologize) but how do you guys feel about adding Ness’s Magicant feat and absorbing it to himself (essentially, absorbing the universe to himself, and Magicant was no more!) to his Low 2-C tier? (since it just says gaining the power of the Sea of eden and Touching the “Truth of the Universe”.)

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    • Bump

      (By the way, I added Resistance to Time stop and removal of Hypnosis weakness)

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    • I agree with everything presented. 

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    • Oh wow, thanks for the reply.

      Here’s what I’m getting so far:

      Unsure about Truth of the universe: 2

      No to Fate/prob: 3

      Yes to Truth of the Universe and Prob/fate: 2

      Everything thing else seems to be fine with everybody I think.

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    • Bumpo

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      Should Ness’ Self resurrection be Low godly regeneration? Since getting (essentially regenerating) your physical body back after being a ghost fits under that category. It’s kinda weird how that works, so if anybody wants to correct me then go ahead.

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    • I'd say it's more ressurection since he's basically coming back to life. 

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    • Alrighty then, I will leave it as it is.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote: I'd say it's more ressurection since he's basically coming back to life. 

      ....But that doesn't negate the point. All godly regeneration can be described as coming back to life.

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    • All godly regen is more the idea of restoring your entire body from a form of erasure, in the context here, Ness simply died and became a ghost, so him resurrecting just puts his ghost back into his physical body.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote: All godly regen is more the idea of restoring your entire body from a form of erasure, in the context here, Ness simply died and became a ghost, so him resurrecting just puts his ghost back into his physical body.

      Even if the physical body isn't there? You can travel a ways away from where the body was and still resurrect and I see no indication that the party drags the dead body along with them.

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    • That's just a game mechanic pretty sure you wouldn't want to see your kids playing a game where you walk around with literal corpses. Even when you die it states "[Insert name of character here] collapsed". Nothing implies their physical body was erased. 

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    • Fair enough, although it wouldn't have to be erased for it to qualify, as long as the character simply choose to regenerate a new body from their soul rather than reposes the dead one. It just wouldn't work until he's dead.

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    • There'd need to be clarification that they're creating a new physical body.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote: There'd need to be clarification that they're creating a new physical body.

      I know. I admitted that you were right, I was just making a clarification.

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    • Bippity, boppoty, bump.

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    • You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Earthbound verse page to find people to ask to comment here.

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    • I agree with everything mentioned here. It makes 100% sense!

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    • Thanks for the reply.

      So, uh, I’ve been looking around in this thread for a while, someone mentioning Ness’ Low 2-C tier. and now that I looked at it twice, we really need to justify more to his tier 2 rating. As mentioned above, I think we should give him his magicant feat and add it to his profile.

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    • Magicant feat, possibly being able to slightly harm Giygas, and touching the truth of the universe seems about right.

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    • Sounds about right, simce Ness touching the Truth can also be interpreted in many ways since if we don't specify that Magicant is a universe it may seem like he didn't absorbed universal power at all.

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    • Ness is capable of actually harming Giygas at the start, is after the moment where Porky tells the kids to call for help were he becomes more weird and strong and Ness can no longer do significant damage to him.

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    • Yeah, I agree.

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    • Antvasima wrote: You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Earthbound verse page to find people to ask to comment here.

      Have you done this?

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    • TheLuffyPlayer wrote:
      I agree with everything mentioned here. It makes 100% sense!

      ^TheLuffyPlayer agreed

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    • You can place polite requests on the message walls of some staff members to comment here if you wish: VS Battles Staff

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    • Good job for your first revisions. I agree with mostly everything here

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    • Oh wow, thanks for that and for replying.

      And what parts of the revision do you think is wrong?

      @Antvasima I’ve asked Darkanine to comment here, and asked a few others knowledgeable on this verse to comment here.

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    • You should preferably ask some other staff members as well, both administrators and discussion moderators.

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    • Dark649 is also someone who seems knowledgeable on Earthbound.

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    • Okay. Feel free to ask him then.

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    • @DaBigP

      it is not so much that i catagorically disagree, but that i am not sure

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    • Ness:

      Agree

      . Reality Warping via creation of Magicant and its items

      . Resistant to Time Stop via dogeing Dali's Clock time stops.

      Neutral

      . Space+Time Manipulation - Dont see any specfics on Magicant having it's own space+time continuum. If your going to go by the aruguemnts of Ness obtaining the ToU, the ToU only explains the power of the universe in terms of wave lengths and particle on the quantam scale of things, so Ness would be in more line with Matter manipulation (but that could be pushing it). Though, Ness's power is said to "overlap with every part of the universe", thus would presumably include space+time, but this is not clear.

      Disagree

      . "Protected under Probability and Fate" - The whole 1% thing by Apple Kid is extremely vague and seems more of a commentary along the lines of 'your chances of victory are slim'. I also agree with Wright Way's on the matter of Fate manipulation.

      . Self-Resurrection - More like gameplay mechanics. There are various games that treat game overs as "a bad dream".

      .Fourth wall awareness and breaking: It's more on the end of the in-game Game Designers and doesn't mean Ness is automatically aware he's fictional. It's like if someone were to randomly walk up to you and starts talking about everything in this world is a computer simulation and he's the creator. Would he automatically believe him? Also the BuzzBuzz "dies earlier in the game" feels more like a brick joke.

      ."at least Low 2-C" rating for Dura - See Giygas below

      Giygas:

      Agree

      . Passive Mind manipulation

      . Passive Void Manipulation

      . Illusion creation

      Neutral

      . Abstract existence (Type 1)

      Disagree

      . "at least Low 2-C" AP rating - For DarkDragonMedeus's reasoning

      . Low Multiversal Range - For  DarkDragonMedeus reasoning

      Porkey:

      AGREE

      Truth of the Universe:

      Fate Manipulation and Probability: Same reason as Ness

      Everything is fine.

      Mother 1

      "Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulaton, Electricity Manipulation, Resistance to OHK, and The Sea Pendant says it’ll “reduce damage” against all PSI attacks equipments" – Agree to Neutral, neutral due to the elements being psychic based, so resisting a fire attack that's on the level of a forest fire is not on the same level of that of created by psychic energy. And to a further extent, fire attacks that destroy things on a conceptual level. But i'm mostly okay with it.

      Mother 2

      Bag of Dragonite – Not transmutation, but transformation as it turns the user into a dragon.

      Pharaos Curse – Not soul, but non physical interaction. Okay on Poison.

      Stag Beetle – Okay

      Teddy Bear 7-C Dura – Okay

      Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, OHKO, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Freeze, Confusion, Empathic Manipulation and Poison) via Pendants and Bracelets. – Agree to Neutral for reasons stated previously.

      Mother 3

      Explosion Manipulaton via Bombs, Super Bombs, and Pencil Rockets. – Okay

      Possible Durability Negation via The New Year’s Eve bomb, after one use, it leaves the opponent with 1 HP – Neutral, seems more like game mechanics but okay with it

      Can break physical and psychic shields with Shield Snatcher (for Boney) – Okay

      Sound Manipulation via Siren Beetle for Duster – Okay

      "Summoning via Honey Shower (Calls a swarm of bees to attack a person. (lol 7-C bees)" – Need to see a reason why these Bees are Town level but okay.

      And there you have it my friend ~ 👍

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    • Also agreed on items that increase status

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    • Has anybody asked Dark649 and other staff members to comment here yet?

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    • The Wright Way only tackled the fate manip being a factor in Ness's journey, so I don't see why Fate Manip shouldn't be on the Truth profile, since his pretty much said to be straight up controlling Fate by knowledgeable character such as Tala rama.

      12311312313123231
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    • Antvasima wrote: Has anybody asked Dark649 and other staff members to comment here yet?

      ^

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    • Someone did post a message on Dark649's wall. Someone also did mention that they told DarkAnine about it above.

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    • Okay. Thanks for the reply.

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    • I don't know that much about the series, i saw parts of the game but i have yet to play them.

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    • Okay. Do you know enough to help out with evaluating this thread?

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    • Some abilties are ok, but others are not like dodging attacks is not the same as resisting them and fourth wall breaking for talking to a game designer is not unless the main char. have implied to be aware while talking to him or in other occasions, Giygas abstract existence is indeed debatable, transmutation is more like transformation and etc. Lastly, i think there should be a thread discussing when a Low 2-C should get the at least since currently it is get for easily destroying universe, it would upgrade other characters such as all the Angels from Dragon Ball Super since they can oneshot the Gods, who are superior to Infinite Zamasu, who took over a universe.

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    • Low 2-C characters should only get "at least" if there are indications that they might be able to destroy multiple universes at once. Simply easily destroying one universe is not remotely enough.

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    • Anyway, I vaguely recall a long previous discussion that resulted in the current Earthbound statistics. Perhaps it would be best to search for and read that before making any changes?

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    • Yes, but isn't destroying multiple universes 2-C?.

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    • Yes it is.

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    • Yeah, putting an at least to a Low 2-C rating should only be given if their's a possibility of affecting other universes. And destroying multiple universes can depend on context; if all at once, that's a solid 2-C feat, destroying them one by one can be a Low 2-C feat combined with Low Multiversal range. Splitting one universe into multiple universes or merging multiple universes into one would also be 2-C.

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    • Alright, Hello! I am back. I'm going to clarify a few points I made.

      I'll start off with Fate Manipulation: Yeah, I do agree that Probability manipulation does sounds weird and vague. However, I still think Fate manipulation (Which acts passively for those who are "destined") should apply rather than something vague. (Quoting Chrisras) "I honestly still don't see why he shouldn't have it. A cosmic entity assures his victory across space-time, shown in the other timeline where he wins. It also makes it so impossible events help him to win the situation, such as when the player, an entity that never appeared during the entire journey, deus ex machina's the battle and makes the kids win. Even the statement mentioned, which is about him having the power to change cosmic event, support this, since he was supposed to lose, but Fate gave him the victory. Since the Truth of the universe is said to be responsible of controlling destiny, it being the "Supreme intelligence", and being space and time itself, it stating that Ness will win despite the incredible odds should be enough to it having Fate Manipulation, and by consequence, all it's chosen ones, since they are destined by it to win." Basically it has a similar description to that of Archie Sonic; an entity protecting them from danger because of Fate and letting the battle achieve a desired result for the user. Which also can be tied to Self Resurrection.

      resistance to time stop: How is it not resistance if he's able to move?

      Fourth wall awareness/breaking: There are few comments that indicate fourth wall awareness and breaking such as "Kids like you should be playing Nintendo Games' or "Come back when you finish Earthbound!. And in Fourside, there's a sign of which reads "Planning's for Earthbound 2" (which is never getting a release here ovo).

      At least Low 2-C Giygas: If it means an indication of destroying/affecting other universes, then he should have it since after he effortlessly destroyed the future, his next target was the chosen 4 in the present timeline. But it was also stated that he was attacking in the past (which could just be omnipresence or some form of Time Manipulation). He could have destroyed those timelines if weren't for the interference of the chosen 4. Also agree with Dark on the matter of effortless busting universe.

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    • Antvasima wrote: You can use the Knowledgeable Members List and the Earthbound verse page to find people to ask to comment here.

      You should ask all of he remaining unasked people to comment here as well, if they are still active in this wiki.

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    • I contacted ArbitraryNumbers and Numbersguy who were on the list. DarkAnine was contacted a while back iirc, but he's yet to respond to the thread.

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    • The title should be changed, as this is clearly a VERY MAJOR revision for the verse.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote: I contacted ArbitraryNumbers and Numbersguy who were on the list. DarkAnine was contacted a while back iirc, but he's yet to respond to the thread.

      Thanks a bunch!

      Also, I’ll change the title @Bobsican

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    • @Medeus

      Thank you for the help.

      @All

      I vaguely remember a quite extensive and comprehensive content revision thread for Earthbound that resulted in the current statistics, so it is very possible that this will not lead anywhere.

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    • Hmm, I don’t see nor do I recall there being any crt regarding the current statistics.

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    • Well, you can check here to see if you find something: https://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Topic:Earthbound

      I think that Dark649 took part in it, but I may misremember.

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    • Pretty sure it was this one? I could be wrong.

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    • I think that it was more recent, but you can ask Dark649 and Darkanine to give input here.

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    • So far i agree with @DaBigP

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    • So i was asked to give input onto this thread. While i'm not really an Admin, i guess i could 

      Powers & Abilities Additions 

      >I agree with just about everything proposed in Ness's section. Personally i think everything you claimed should be added as it's pretty cut and dry

      Giygas Additions 

      >Abstract Existence for Giygas seems a bit debatable, but personally if there's enough to support it then i'm all for it. Tho i heard that Giygas being the embodiment of Evil may possibly be a translation error, but i never got the source that cites that so i dunno

      >Everything else for Giygas i'm mostly agree with

      Pokey Minch 

      >Agree with everything presented here

      "The Truth of The Universe" 

      >I dunno what much to say about this. Alot points to this being an actual entity than opposed to a force or something. However i feel this is the same case with The Gentle Pull (I.E, it's unknown whether it's an actual character or what). Assuming that The Truth exists. Everything that has been proposed to it seems interesting 

      >I can argue that "The Truth" is also 2-B. Asit's shown that each individual has their own Magicants , which are established as universes, as you've presented 

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    • Thanks for the reply!

      I feel it’s safe to keep it at 2-C, possibly 2-B since the players guide mentions about a lot of people being able to visit Magicant, but Ness being the only one capable of gaining its powers. So ye Plus Maria’s magicant is 7-A

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    • I haven't played Earthbound in a few years, so take what I say how you will, but based on what's been said in the thread I agree with everything bar the fate/probability manipulation.

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    • I agree with everything in the OP except for:

      Giygas Abstract Existence: Fairly vague statement that needs more backing.

      Passive Void Manipulation: could you provide scans as this doesn’t quite seem passive.

      Passive Mind Manip: Definitely Mind Manip but are we positive it’s passive?

      Self-Resurrection: More neutral than against but it seems more like game mechanics. But eh.

      Time Stop: Looks more like game mechanics here too.

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    • Possibly 2-B seems like wank tho... since we havent seen other universes.

      Adding powers: I agree, but the time stop thing seems like a gameplay oversight tho

      Giygas additions: Probably no, considering we never saw it again

      Pokey Minch: Fully agree

      The Truth of The Universe: Eh. I don't think so, that's an object... it can't fight

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    • Oh hey. We have a lot of inputs. All varying to agreeing and disagreeing.

      Dang, I never expected this. But I’ll wait for a while to come up with another response (probably another wall of text from me) But thanks.

      Also @Numbersguy There are many characters in this wiki that don’t “fight”. This one here is important to the story and how it rolls.

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    • Numbersguy

      Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

      Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd

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    • Is there any proof Maria's magicant is universal in size? The most we see from it is a lot of mountains in the background.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote:
      Is there any proof Maria's magicant is universal in size? The most we see from it is a lot of mountains in the background.

      Why would Ness's Magicant and Maria's Magicant vary. Saying that it isn't a universe because it only shows alot of mountains goes against the notion that Magicant itself is the same place, just thought up differently by other's mind. The best way i can describe this is how Universes function in Multiverse Theory 

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    • DaBigP wrote:
      Thanks for the reply!

      I feel it’s safe to keep it at 2-C, possibly 2-B since the players guide mentions about a lot of people being able to visit Magicant, but Ness being the only one capable of gaining its powers. So ye Plus Maria’s magicant is 7-A

      Fair enough. 2-C is fine as well

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    • @Numbersguy If you agree with Fate Manipulation, then why not Truth of the Universe? Also if you are referring to abstract existence for Giygas, what I said up there is describing Type 2 Abstract. I made a mistake up there as I wasn’t aware that there were types. Type 1 describes them as existing as an abstraction and that they lack a true physical form. But even so, that can be debatable. How is Time stop an oversight? Or some form of gameplay mechanics?

      @SSBXeno573 How is it not Passive if it’s by mere presence alone?


      @Gyronutz Why do you disagree with Fate Manipulation if Truth of the universe is ok?

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    • SuperBearNeo X wrote:

      Why would Ness's Magicant and Maria's Magicant vary. Saying that it isn't a universe because it only shows alot of mountains goes against the notion that Magicant itself is the same place, just thought up differently by other's mind. The best way i can describe this is how Universes function in Multiverse Theory 

      Because the magicant in Maria's world is outright only shown be around that size, Ness' magicant you can see things like other planets.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote:

      Because the magicant in Maria's world is outright only shown be around that size, Ness' magicant you can see things like other planets.

      We already have classified stuff that can just look as even below tier 5 as tier 2, so this can pass as a universe too.

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    • Bobsican
      Bobsican removed this reply because:
      Some glitch duplicated the post
      22:17, December 16, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • GreyFang82 wrote:
      Numbersguy

      Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

      Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd

      Because time-stop is omni-directional because everything stops... and the game says "You dodged it"... how do you dodge something that is omni-directional?

      So, that is why I think it is a gameplay mechanic... it feels "off"

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    • Bobsican wrote:

      We already have classified stuff that can just look as even below tier 5 as tier 2, so this can pass as a universe too.

      Zelda verse would like to have a word with you.

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    • Numbersguy wrote:
      GreyFang82 wrote:
      Numbersguy

      Why is time stop an oversight but everything else in the game in combat is applicable and a-okay?

      Edit: Apologies, I didn't see that you agreed. But still, I don't think it's far fetch'd

      Because time-stop is omni-directional because everything stops... and the game says "You dodged it"... how do you dodge something that is omni-directional?

      So, that is why I think it is a gameplay mechanic... it feels "off"

      There's several characters before that have dodged omni-directional attacks in fiction.

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    • Oh yeah, I forgot that we still have a rule that basically says "If it´s below tier 5, it ain´t tier 2".

      In which case, I guess it can´t straightly get tier 2.

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    • SansTheSkeleton101 wrote: Magicant feat, possibly being able to slightly harm Giygas, and touching the truth of the universe seems about right.

      Tier 2.

      Also Ness’s magicant contains multiple stars. But stuff like this has already discussed before: https://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:897351?useskin=oasis

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    • Yeah my point was his is backed up to be a unierse in size as you can see stars, planets etc. Maria's magicant doesn't even show a sun if I recall correctly, only mountains and at best it looks like an island.

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    • Antvasima wrote: I think that it was more recent, but you can ask Dark649 and Darkanine to give input here.

      Have you done this?

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    • I have contacted Darkanine once again. Dark649 already gave his input.

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    • Okay.

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    • Also, this thread is very messy. Can somebody summarise the conclusions so far?

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    • I’ll probably summarize it tomorrow, since now I gotta get some sleep.

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    • Sorry about that, Ant.

      I don’t think I can go ahead and summarize the conclusion without more admin inputs.

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    • Here are some of the less asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are no knowledgeable members available:

      Promestein

      SomebodyData

      Reppuzan

      Dragonmasterxyz

      Celestial Pegasus

      Monarch Laciel

      Assaltwaffle

      Saikou The Lewd King

      Antoniofer

      PaChi2

      Ultima Reality

      DarkDragonMedeus

      AKM Sama

      Dargoo Faust

      MrKingOfNegativity

      Wokistan

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    • Wasn't it the Low 2-C Ness that blocked Giygas' attacks? Because that's already stort of listed on the page.

      The examples you gave on Reality Warping are more along the lines of creation and even then I'm a bit sketchy on that.

      I would like scans of your reasoning for Ness being protected by some higher entity. "Chosen Ones" is a very common trope and overcoming insurmountable odds is even more common. It's a bold claim to make that there is something outside enforcing these tropes within fate/probability itself, one that needs solid evidence.

      Again, another very common trope in turn based RPGs that is extremely common in game mechanics. In something like Undertale such resurrection has to be repeatedly enforced in lore and I expect it here. There might be stuff implied but I don't really see enough here to justify it.

      I don't think they're actually resisting timestop as the characters in the overworld are still frozen when that happens. I feel like it more has to do with game mechanics.

      The Fourth Wall Breaking sounds off as well. It seems more like an in-joke or easter egg, or just a tutorial.

      I will comment on Giygas and the Truth page later but I already don't agree with much there. I feel like too many leaps of faith are being taken here with abilities just from stuff that is lightly implied.

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    • I think Dargoo makes good points.

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    • Yeah, thanks for responding. Indeed, you have made good points.

      Wasn't it the Low 2-C Ness that blocked Giygas' attacks? Because that's already stort of listed on the page.

      Yes, but if Giygas gets an “At least” rating, then Ness should get a dura upgrade is what I was trying to say.

      The examples you gave on Reality Warping are more along the lines of creation and even then I'm a bit sketchy on that.'”

      How is it not Reality Warping or let alone Creation if Ness created Magicant? Magicant is said to be an entire universe, something that’s on RW page. The items and The Flying men, which represents Ness’ Courage, is along the line of Creation, like you said.


      I would like scans of your reasoning for Ness being protected by some higher entity. "Chosen Ones" is a very common trope and overcoming insurmountable odds is even more common. It's a bold claim to make that there is something outside enforcing these tropes within fate/probability itself, one that needs solid evidence.

      Yeah, I understand that “chosen one” or “destined ones” are common tropes within fiction. However, as mentioned above, it was shown to communicate with Ness two times within the Adventure, telling him where to go and reflecting upon the adventure so far. The second time telling him that Giygas was starting to fear him because of his growing power. Even in Mother 3, he was communicating with Lucas. And yet again, refer back to previous comments. The whole journey was already destined and fated, that Ness already won against Giygas in two timelines. It also makes it so impossible events help him to win the situation, such as when the player, an entity that never appeared during the entire journey, deus ex machina's the battle and makes the “destined” ones win. The players guide mentions in Ness’s description that he has the “power to change cosmic event”, even support this, since he was supposed to lose, but Fate gave him the victory. Since the Truth of the universe is said to be responsible of controlling destiny, it being the "Supreme intelligence", and being space and time itself, it stating that Ness will win despite the incredible odds should be enough to it having Fate Manipulation, and by consequence, all it's chosen ones, since they are destined by it to win. Again, has a similar description to Archie Sonic. Oh, and “The truth” has been mentioned by Knowledgeable members such as Tala Rama: “Your coming here, my waiting here... it was all predestined truth” And “The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man.” The most interesting part is “speaks to the universes known as man” which that is probably referring to Magicant (it also backs up that Magicant is an entire universe that Ness creates). Which brings up my next point, Truth was also present within Ness’ magicant, Ness would have to conquer his evil and violent side to get rid of Giygas influences. Doing so, allowed Ness to touch the Truth and obtained sufficient amount of power to confront Giygas. And grind some extra exp because 200,000 exp isn’t enough ovo.

      I guess Fourth wall breaking and awareness should go.

      I’m still trying to wrap my head around Resistance to Time stop and maybe Self resurrection.

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    • Za bumpo


      Do I make good points?

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    • Bump

      (I added more to “Truth of the universe” and Fate Manipulaton)

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    • Ness

      Reality Warping- Not really. It's less of his creation and more of a universe that takes inspiration from his mind.

      Space-Time Manip- Same as above.

      Fate and probability manip- Yup.

      Self-resurrection- I don't think so. While I do agree that the party members do indeed die, I'm pretty sure Ness coming back on his own is just game mechanics, which is supported by the fact that he goes back to his last save point.

      Resistance to time-stop- Nah, just game mechanics.

      Fourth-wall awareness and breaking- No, that's like saying Papyrus has fourth-wall awareness for interacting with the Annoying Dog. 

      Giygas

      Abstract Existence- Nah, nothing backing that up.

      Passive mind manip- Yeah.

      Range- Nah. No proof that Earthbound has that many universes.

      Passive void manip- Yup.

      Illusion Creation- Yup. 

      I agree with everything about the items and Pokey.

      Truth of the Universe-

      I agree with everything except it's tier, mind manip and reality warping. Telepathically communicating with someone isn't mind manip, nor is there any proof it can use PSI. It's never demonstrated any form of reality warping either.

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    • Alrighty, thanks for that response. (I keep forgetting to update the thread so we can have an almost near conclusion, which that also has to be done. I am just waiting for Dargoo’ response.

      Anyway

      Ness:

      Reality Warping: Except it’s been said that Ness created Magicant Tho. Something that’s also on Reality Warpings page.

      Self resurrection: Yeah, it should probably go. Don’t know what others think

      Resistance to Time stop: Used to agree, but now I’m a little close to disagreeing.

      Fourth wall stuff: Yeah, that’s getting removed I guess.

      (By the way, what do you think about Ness getting a dura upgrade if Giygas gets an “At least” rating?)


      Giygas:

      Abstract existence: Again, could be debated like I said above.

      Range: It’s already been discarded, but refer back to Truth and The real world within Earthbound. And the whole thing about chosen 4 winning in two timelines.


      Truth of the universe:

      I understand what you listed, but what’s wrong with the tiering? (I agree that mind Manipulation should just be Telepahty).

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    • Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense. 

      I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many. 

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    • Sptflcrw wrote: Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense. 

      I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many. 

      Actually, that's 2-B.

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    • Ok, so for the time stop people keep saying "game mechanics" because this attack is interpreted by one person to be omni directional so dodging it would be GM.

      It was never stated to be that, but even if it was, dodging "time stop" isn't what makes Ness resistant to it.

      When using this move the music stops leaving the only sound effects playing being the attack missing or hitting the characters, This is the only move that ever does this so it there to show that the flow of time has stopped and the clock is then unleashing a flurry of attacks while time is stopped. Right after the flurry of blows the music plays to show time has resumed. Dodging the flurry of attacks should show Ness and the others can briefly move in stopped time. Besides instead of full resistance we can have it say "Minor Resistance to Time Stop" and put Ness can briefly move in stopped time to dodge attacks.

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    • Also 2-C means affecting more than one universe.

      So if I was to control two universes or affect it at the same time, then that makes me 2-C. Low 2-C means affecting one universe (with at least being hints to being able to affect more than one or able to affect another one after another, but don’t quote me on that.)

      yay, Grey saved the day!

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    • Alright, I’m gonna update the thread based on what Grey said.

      Don’t know if I should remove the ones that I mentioned considering others agreed to the abilities.

      We really need a verdict, these keep flying left and right with varying inputs. Like that’s fine, but now it’s becoming messy like what Ant said ovo.

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    • The Wright Way wrote:

      Sptflcrw wrote: Magicant is less of Ness' doing and more thanks the the Eight melodies. If Giygas gets an at least rating, I'd say Ness would also get an at least rating. Although it is worth noting that Giygas' AP >>> Ness' defense. 

      I read the stuff about multiple universe, but 2-C is >1000 universes. While it is true that Earthbound has a multiverse, nothing suggests it has that many. 

      Actually, that's 2-B.

      You're right, my bad.

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    • GreyFang82 wrote:
      Ok, so for the time stop people keep saying "game mechanics" because this attack is interpreted by one person to be omni directional so dodging it would be GM.

      It was never stated to be that, but even if it was, dodging "time stop" isn't what makes Ness resistant to it.

      When using this move the music stops leaving the only sound effects playing being the attack missing or hitting the characters, This is the only move that ever does this so it there to show that the flow of time has stopped and the clock is then unleashing a flurry of attacks while time is stopped. Right after the flurry of blows the music plays to show time has resumed. Dodging the flurry of attacks should show Ness and the others can briefly move in stopped time. Besides instead of full resistance we can have it say "Minor Resistance to Time Stop" and put Ness can briefly move in stopped time to dodge attacks.

      There's no evidence suggesting that. 

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    • B-but...

      I linked Ness and Jeff dodging the attack as well as the battle itself.

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    • DaBigP wrote:
      Also 2-C means affecting more than one universe.

      So if I was to control two universes or affect it at the same time, then that makes me 2-C. Low 2-C means affecting one universe (with at least being hints to being able to affect more than one or able to affect another one after another, but don’t quote me on that.)

      yay, Grey saved the day! </div>

      Yeah, but there isn't any proof that the Truth of the Universe actually effects multiple universes at once.

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    • @Sptflcrw please do not use long quotes, thank you.

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    • DarkDragonMedeus wrote:
      @Sptflcrw please do not use long quotes, thank you.

      My bad.

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    • Okay, so that at least proves that truth exists. I don't see any flaws currently (and I'm starting to wonder if Anakin needs this applied to him too, as I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the relationship between Ness and Truth and Anakin and The Force) I'm just sad that Ness has become another Smurf. He was interesting before. Now he's just another "higher dimensional hax so fac u" character. I kind of hope someone debunks this eventually, I don't want see Ness get sidelined like that.

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    • I-

      I really don’t know how to respond to that other than saying sorry..

      However, you are not alone, I had one of those thoughts, however (with minor regrets, but still did so because Truth is an interesting character and because I like the references and parodies that Itoi makes with the characterss and symbolisms like Truth) Like I don’t want stuff like this to ruin “things” at all, not my intentions at all...

      As for @Sprflcrw, to answer your question:


      The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline.) It is the one responsible for Mother 2 and 3 events as a whole.

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    • Getting sad because a character became a smurf tickles me in the wrong way. Saying Ness was "interesting before" just sits kinda of wrong with me, since i don't see how he becoming a smurf makes him any less interesting as a character now, expecialy when said smurfery is barely present in the games.

      Sorry, ignore me and go on.

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    • It’s his opinion, and I respect it.

      Within Magicant was pretty dark, especially when The Flying men, a being that represents Ness’ courage, dies... It’s tombstone is just depressing as it implies the more the Flying men dies, the more courage Ness loses; and the more Giygas influences grows...But that’s me. Ness went through “stuff”. Since that’s what the game is going for.

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    • Well, all of Ness's wins are about to be stomps. Except Pennywise since he's gonna have High 1-B madness hax for if Ness ever tries to read his mind. Might have to do a rematch there.

      Hopefully we can get some good matches out of Truth at least.

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    • The Wright Way wrote:
      Well, all of Ness's wins are about to be stomps. Except Pennywise since he's gonna have High 1-B madness hax for if Ness ever tries to read his mind. Might have to do a rematch there.

      Hopefully we can get some good matches out of Truth at least.

      Um... no? This "Truth" is only for his post-magicant self isn't it? So all his 7-C matches are still valid

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    • Alright, derailing can go to my wall if people want to discuss Earthbound related stuff (lol nobody).

      Penny vs Ness is an interesting rematch that I’m willing to participate in.

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    • GreyFang82 wrote:

      The Wright Way wrote:
      Well, all of Ness's wins are about to be stomps. Except Pennywise since he's gonna have High 1-B madness hax for if Ness ever tries to read his mind. Might have to do a rematch there.

      Hopefully we can get some good matches out of Truth at least.

      Um... no? This "Truth" is only for his post-magicant self isn't it? So all his 7-C matches are still valid

      Nope. Truth has been guiding Ness sense the beginning of the game.

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    • @Grey

      Truth involves The choosen 4, Lucas and The Masked man since they are all destined and choosen ones.

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    • ALL OF MY HARD WORK FOR THOSE MATCHES ARE IN VAIN! DANG YOU ALL TO HECK!

      Oh ok then

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    • IM SORRY GREY, DON’T HURT ME PLEASE! AHHHH!

      I shall await Dargoos response...

      Also forgot to respond to Reality Warping:

      Yes, the eight melodies were needed, but they were to record deep feelings that connects to Ness’ childhood, to learn more about himself.. That was what Magicant was. Something he still created, but needed the eight melodies to access “Your world”.

      btw, Merry Christmas to all!

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    • So what are the conclusions here?

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    • I'm not even sure if one was reached, the last post Dargoo wrote makes sense to me, but then there's some TLTR arguments back and forth after that.

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    • Yeah, again I’m sorry for the messy stuff in here. This is my first CRT after all, but that’s no excuse.

      We just need to hear what Dargoo has to say. Like what Dark said, there are varying opinions with some now agreeing and some disagreeing. Though Wright agreed with the new character, and others as well.

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    • Okay.

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    • I'll give a response in a bit. I'm not too available toda, so it might come a bit later.

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    • Okey dokey, take your time.

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    • DaBigP wrote:


      The truth is described as being a "grain and wave" that travels through the cosmos. Stated to communicate with people inside their Magicants, which are described as "Universes" in the original text of the game. Just touching it, Ness was capable of acquiring his full potential. Its present between all timelines in Earthbound, of which are at least two in where Ness success. It also selects chosen ones during MOTHER 3, which is alluded to take place in a different timeline.) It is the one responsible for Mother 2 and 3 events as a whole.

      I know, but (might be wrong on this, I haven't replayed Earthbound or Mother 3 for about a year and a half) how do we know that it's the same being? The way I saw it was that the Truth of the Universe literally WAS the universe. So I assumed that there would be a Truth of the Universe for each universe, considering it IS the universe. Might be wrong on that, but is there anything that implies or hints that there is only one Truth of the Universe and it effects all timelines at the same time?

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    • DaBigP wrote:
       

      Yes, the eight melodies were needed, but they were to record deep feelings that connects to Ness’ childhood, to learn more about himself.. That was what Magicant was. Something he still created, but needed the eight melodies to access “Your world”.


      Yeah, but I don't think creating Magicant is reality warping. Maybe pocket reality creation or something? 

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    • @Sptflcrw

      You don't have to quote long posts. Do like I did here instead.

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    • @Antvasima

      Sorry, I'm trying to remember to do that.

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    • No problem.

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    • Anyway, what should we do here?

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    • @Sptflcrw

      The truth, as said above, is responsible for the events of the entire game. Like when I said Ness won in two timelines since it was all fated; Truth controlling a “universal system”. We already got hints of it being omnipresent too. Also Magicant being a pocket reality is probably a no? I’m not too familiar with this ability and how it’s different from Reality Warping.

      @Ant

      I am not sure, we are all just waiting on Dargoo’s response. (Which take your time, no rush.)

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    • Okay.

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    • DaBigP wrote:

      Reality Warping: Except it’s been said that Ness created Magicant Tho. Something that’s also on Reality Warpings page.

      Creation is a subpower of Reality Warping, not the other way around.

      You agreed with my other points so I don't feel like I need to address them.

      Giygas:

      Mind Manip: Scans. Specifically a quote would be nice. It's really a matter of linguistics if it was through the nature of his being or if is an ability. It could even be a type of Madness Manip similar to that seen in everything Lovecraft.

      Void Manip: Why are you calling it 'passive' if it's stated that he 'creates' the void? I feel like the word is just being slapped on in the wrong places.

      Illusion Creation: We don't have enough information on Evil Mani Mani to assume Giygas made it and is capable of creating the same illusions; we just know it was a tool used by Giygas to spread his influence. Even then he doesn't wield Mani Mani into combat.

      This is a tall order but I really need links on everything on the God-Tier. From what I've seen it's just loosely implied. The same goes for the rest of the stuff you are suggesting; you're making a lot of claims that have nothing tangible attached to them. Maybe you're correct, but you can't expect people to take everything you take at face value, especially people like myself who don't know anything about the verse.

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    • @Dargoo

      Thank you for helping out.

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    • -Transmutation: Via bag of dragonite, they can transform into a fire breathing dragon to do massive damage.

      I think you mean Transformation.

      -Statistics Amplification: Can boost their durability via Defense spray.

      Seems legit.

      -Soul Manipulation and Poison Manipulation: Via Pharao's course, can summon an ectoplasmic ooze to poison the enemy.

      That's Ectoplasm Manipulation, not Soul Manipulation. There is actually a difference, lol.

      -Sound Manipulation: Via Stag Beetle.

      No idea what the item does.

      Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, OHKO, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Freeze, Confusion, Empathic Manipulation and Poison) via Pendants and Bracelets.

      Links? Again I'm not doing your research for you.

      Teddy bears (Yes, a 7-C Teddy Bear. One that is above baseline since it survived 20 kilos.)

      No idea what that is.

      - Explosion Manipulaton via Bombs, Super Bombs, and Pencil Rockets.

      Seems legit.

      - Possible Durability Negation via The New Year’s Eve bomb, after one use, it leaves the opponent with 1 HP.

      Not dura negation, at least not at every physical level. Take the strongest enemy it works on and use that dura as a cap to escape a No Limits Fallacy pit. 

      -Statistics Amplification via offense and defense spray.

      Seems legit.

      -Can break physical and psychic shields with Shield Snatcher (for Boney).

      Links.

      -Sound Manipulation via Siren Beetle for Duster

      I guess. No idea what it does though.

      -Sumonning via Honey Shower (Calls a swarm of bees to attack a person.) (lol 7-C bees)

      Nick Cage approves. Seems legit.

      - Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Sleep Manipulaton, Electricity Manipulaton, Confusion, Ice Manipulaton. And healing (brings back health every turn.) with special clothing, bracelets and Pendants (for the protagonists)

      l i n k s

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    • I think the new years eve bomb is pretty clearly durability negation. Iirc its wiki policy that attacks that ignore defense bypass durability, and the enemy that it effects is only able to be harmed by attacks that bypass durability like PK Flash's Death Manip/OHKO

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    • You mean the Porky Statue?

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    • Yee. In canon the only things that can kill it are abilities that bypass durability. If you try and abuse ludonarative dissonance and kill it by winding down its HP with weaker attacks then the game will crash. You literally cannot defeat it without an OHKO move (or something very close to it) such as The Bomb or PK Flash

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    • Yep, the description of the New Years Eve bomb reads:

      Reduces all enemies' HP to 1. Don't rely on it, though. It could be a dud.

      Hence why I put “possible” since, as the descriptions says, it’s not always reliable in combat. But as others said above, the only thing to defeat The Porky statue (which has a lot of HP) is Dura negating attack’s like PK Flash and The New Year’s Eve Bomb.

      I’ll comment on the others probably tomorrow since it’ll take a lot of time to do so.

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    • I dunno. I disagree with that.

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    • You disagree with the New Year’s Eve bomb being dura negation?

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    • Wait, I read that wrong, move on.

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    • Oh jeez, hopefully this thread isn't dead. My apologize for the inactivity.

      Ness: I only agreed with the removal of Fourth wall stuff and Self-resurrection. Time stop resistance became Minor resistance. Should the creation of Magicant be "Universal creation"? (I also want to use this to further back up his Low 2-C rating)


      Giygas:

      Mind Manipulation:

      Hopefully these quotes help (Taken from here and here)


      From Earthbound Beginnings:

      "The black clouds that hang over the mountains...They're making all the towns-people crazy."


      "The animals went mad and out of control. The dead became zombies and began attacking people. What can be done?" (Madness manipulation?)


      "The animals went mad and began to escape, so the Zoo was locked. "


      "Someone must be controlling the dead." (Which that is Necromancy, another ability that's not in his profile)


      "I think something is controlling the animals."

      From Earthbound:

      "From now on, you'll be fighting enemies sent by Giygas, as well as humans who have evil thoughts. They'll definitely make trouble during your adventure ! Animals are also becoming violent due to Giygas' influence over the evil in their minds ! It is the truth, so listen! - Buzz-Buzz"

      Giygas is able to manipulate the evil in the minds of living beings, both human and animal, and can manipulate even the forms of inanimate objects all with his mere presence (Even states that in his profile). As all enemies is basically that, from Giygas influences (all enemies in Earthbound are either caught by Giygas influence or are working for Giygas; after you beat Giygas at the end of the game, enemies are no longer present within the world and you can wander it freely because "Evil energy" is no more, also backs that up.) His influences even caught on to Ness, which in Magicant, he has to defeat his evil side. As such, when Ness' Nightmare is defeated, Ness destroys all of the evil, fears, and doubts that were within him, allowing him to touch The Truth (Which I'll get into soon) and absorb Magicant.


      Void Manipulation:

      Perhaps I made a mistake? I don't know as During the battle, Pokey shuts the Devils machine (A machine meant to hold his tremendous power and stabilize his mind) off, causing all of Giygas's power to be unleashed; the event surrounds the four children in a chaotic, bizarre dimension of darkness. It's weird, but that's what immediately happened as soon as the machine was turned off (You can look here)


      and finally


      Illusion creation: You are correct. But I don't see why it can't be used as an equipment because we know it was a tool that he used against people and, soon, Ness and Jeff. So what if he doesn't wield it into combat? By then, it was already destroyed by two kids.


      I'll get into The Truth and Items soon enough.

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    • Bump

      (I will respond with The truth and the items tomorrow, hopefully things can get concluded after which.)

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    • We preferably need more staff input here. It would help if you ask some of the administrators and discussion moderators that I recommended earlier, after first writing a summary of what is being suggested.

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    • Items: (i've made a few mistakes here, so I'll fix them here and edit the OP)

      Sound Manipulation (Stag Beetle): Descrpition reads: "By throwing this at the enemy during battle, the enemy is shocked and stops moving. Gone after one use."  In the Mother 3, this name is given to the Siren Beetle, which is a part of Duster arsenal. The description reads: "Makes enemies turn around due to a deafening noise." 

      (Fixed a few stuff here, my apologize) Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, OHKO, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Empathic Manipulation, and Sleep Manipulation) via Pendants and Bracelet: The Star Pendant " Provides protection from Fire, Freeze, Flash and Paralysis." PK Flash including OHK, paralysis, confusion, and crying uncontrollably. The Goddess_Band grants resistance to Hypnosis "Must be equipped on your arm. It increases your Defense. Helps keep you from being hypnotized, and it also increases your Luck." 

      Teddy Bear: Fairly simple, a really stuffed plush bear that receives most of the hits from enemies in battle to reduce the amount of damage Ness's party takes, until it becomes a pile of fluff.

      Shield Snatcher: Another mistake in my part, other party members are able to equip it. Not just Boney.

      Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Electricity Manipulaton, Ice Manipulaton, OHK, Status Effect Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, Sleep Manipulation, and Poison), and healing (brings back health every turn.) with special clothing, bracelets and Pendants (for the protagonists): The Thud Charm resist all status effect inducement "Increases protection from all status ailments.​​​". Electricity resistance thanks to the ​​Thunder P​​endant. Here, The Knit sweater is able to restore some HP each turn.

      Ya like Jazz?: As others said, it's just covering an enemy in honey, causing a swarm of bees to attack. 



      The Truth of the Universe: I'll try to make things simple for others. Like what SuperBearNeo X said, despite being rather vague and ambiguous, it's very similar to that of The Gentle Pull so it could apply as a profile. Since we know that it was a force controlling what happens in the universe, and a supreme deity.

      - "The truth of the universe travels the cosmos like a grain and like a wave and speaks to the universes known as man. Your coming here, my waiting here… It was all predestined truth. Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo… When these four forces meet, the twisting cosmos will breathe calmly once more." 

      Refering to it as both a grain and a wave refers to it being both small and tiny and vast and all encompassing at the same time, that is all leading to Omnipresence.  We have seen it communicating with Ness, and with Lucas. Intrestingly, the "speaks to the universes as man" part is most certainly connected to Magicant. Which not only backs Magicant being a universe, but implies that there are more than one (Not gonna try anything with that tho, but of course, there is also Maria's magicant).

      "The Sea of Eden is filled with ultimate intelligence. It’s a place where you can touch the truth of the universe for just an instant." 

      So the Truth of the Universe is something that can be reached in Magicant, the universe that exists inside Ness. It's by going to the Sea of Eden that Ness fights his evil self (or Giygas Influence) that he achieves great power, so the Truth of the Universe likely has something to do with this as what was said above. Already, in Ness's profile, said that the truth of the universe was described to be both space and time.

      Now, when you speak to that one Rock that told Ness he will be become one with the Universe, but apparently he and his friends are part of a "universal system": "At last, you speak to me.

      Listen well, Ness. I am about to tell you something so important that you should probably write this down.

      Ready? You are a chosen one. Your destiny is not yours alone… It is part of a universal “system”. The time will come when every part of you will become one (note: or overlap) with every part of the universe.
       you need not understand right now.
      Do you remember “Giant Step” back in Onett? That was one of “Your Places”
      These are spots that give you power and draw out “every part” of you.
      They are protected by monsters affected by that power. However, you obviously must have defeated them.
      Once you’ve stood at all eight of these power spots in the world…
      Once the Sound Stone has recorded the melodies of all the power spots, you will see “Your World” for the very first time." 

      "You must listen to the sounds of all eight power spots.

      Defeating Gyiyg without doing so will be impossible.
      Do you understand, Ness?
      The moment when your destiny becomes one with the destiny of the universe… is close at hand."

      He and his friends destiny are part of a "universal system". Being able to meet up and overcome many obstacles that otherwise seems impossible and that Ness was able to achieve such power to confront Giygas. Chosen Ones are part of this Universal System, which this system choses when the universe is in need. The reference to "chosen ones" in Mother 3 implies that this universal system chose Lucas & Claus to pull the Seven Needles, but Porky corrupted Claus to his own ends.

      "It says only those with the power of PK Love can pull the seven Needles. Not even we Magypsies have that ability. In other words, you're able to pull the Needles because you're a chosen boy. " (Taken from here)

      ". . Lucas It seems you’re a chosen one, with the ability to pull the Needles sealing the Dragon away. You MUST pull the Dark Dragon’s Needle with your own hands, and pass your heart on to the Dragon.- Leder"

      TLDR:

      -The "universal system" is destiny that the Truth of the universe controls.

      - Can use Telepathy and has shown indication of Omnipresence

      - It speaks to the universes (Magicant) that apperantly lies in people (as shown with Ness's Magicant. He reached his full power and merged with the Universe by touching the Truth in his Magicant)

      - Chosen ones include Ness, Paula, Jeff, Poo, Lucas & Claus

      I've linked this a lot, but the heroes were able to achieve victory in two timelines. It was already said in the beginning in the game by Buzz Buzz that they lost in one timeline to Giygas. These is indication to different timelines existing within the Earthbound multiverse.



      @Ant

      I've asked a few staff members to give their inputs.

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    • Okay. Thanks. A few is probably not enough though.

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    • Bump

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    • As I mentioned earlier, if you write a summary of the arguments so far, and then ask for staff input, that might lead somewhere. Otherwise nothing will likely happen here.

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    • I’ve updated the OP with a summary.

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    • You still need to politely ask several staff members to give input though.

      From what I recall, the current Earthbound statistics were created via considerable staff discussion, so I am uneasy with adjusting them without something comparable.

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    • I mean, there aren't a whole lot of people on the site who are familar with Earthbound. Not to mention, most of these are just minor abilities.

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    • Except the “major” highlight is a new character that is 2-C. Though, other than that, just abilities and resistance. But still important, nonetheless.


      Right now we just need more staff inputs of which I have just asked a couple of. After which, depending on what they think, things can finally get done.

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    • Okay, but remind my why Truth should be 2-C again? The feats suggest Low 2-C, unless I'm missing something. Plus, when was it alluded that Mother 3 happens in another timeline?

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    • Sptflcrw wrote:
      Okay, but remind my why Truth should be 2-C again? The feats suggest Low 2-C, unless I'm missing something. Plus, when was it alluded that Mother 3 happens in another timeline?

      The Truth overlaps and is one with all of the cosmos, which is shown to extend to other timelines 

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    • Pretty sure it was described more like a wave, travelling to and from different universe.

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    • That actually describes Omnipresence, Refering to it as both a grain and a wave refers to it being both small and tiny and vast and all encompassing at the same time. Look back at the quotes I posted few messages above, it’s just wall of text regarding the truth.

      Will comment on Mother 3 soon

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    • Okay, but what proof is there that there's only one Truth? What if every universe has a Truth? 

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    • Not really, remember when I brought up that he gave Ness the victory in two timelines? Where Truth affects both a timeline where Ness didn't contacted the Camera guy and one where he did. There also other timelines where Ness even lost to Giygas (as stated by Buzz Buzz long quote). Then there’s Magicant and MOTHER 3.

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    • Sptflcrw wrote:
      Okay, but what proof is there that there's only one Truth? What if every universe has a Truth? 

      Why make that assumption when nothing suggests that being the case. Furthermore, if it's the grain and wave that makes up the cosmos, it's safe to say they "The Truth" is a singular being 

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    • Regarding Mother 3: Because when Giygas is defeated, Pokey states that he’ll go to “a different era” to think about his next plan, even in Mother 3, states that he was traveling through time and space, which caused him to age rapidly that it no longer had meaning to him (Type 1 Immortality) “I was the one who brought you here. A traveler who has journeyed to and from past and future.” “I've gone through time and space so many times that I haven't aged like a normal person. Who knows, I might be 1,000 years old, or even 10,000 years old. But, despite that, I'm still the same kid at heart! Is that funny? It is, isn't it? Does it make you laugh? *cough* *wheeze* Are you laughing at me?!”.

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    • Here are some of the less frequently asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are no knowledgeable members available:

      Ryukama

      SomebodyData

      Darkanine

      Reppuzan

      Dragonmasterxyz

      Celestial Pegasus

      Dark649

      Soldier Blue

      Monarch Laciel

      Kaltias

      Assaltwaffle

      Saikou The Lewd King

      Kepekley23

      Antoniofer

      Gemmysaur

      PaChi2

      Ultima Reality

      DarkDragonMedeus

      AKM Sama

      Dargoo Faust

      MrKingOfNegativity

      Theglassman12

      Wokistan

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    • Since this is massive revisions should Ana's freeze gamma be treated as Dura Negation as it makes any opponent no matter their health go straight down to critical health? She should also have OHK with beam gamma, and in turn Gigue should have resistance to both of this as neither of these PSI's affect him.

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    • If the Truth is capable of granting victory in multiple timelines I think it is safe to say that the Truth is a singular entity rather than multiples working to achieve the same goal.

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    • @GiverOfThePeace I am not sure actually, while it does say it puts them in critical condition, it’s a form of Ice Manipulaton and it’s possible that it’s some NLF stuff; that, and along with Giegue somehow being Resistant to it, which could also be NLF (which sounds like Invulnerability actually). But someone can correct me on that. However, I do agree with PK Beam Gamma being OHK.


      @Assaltwaffle Thanks for the reply. What do you think about the rest of this CRT?

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    • Ok let me rephrase the "any opponent" part, I meant any opponent in Earthbound Beginnings that isn't unaffected by it, and it works on bosses, it works on the dragon dude.

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    • I guess “Possible Durability negation” is fine, but stuff like this are not present in other games of the series.

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    • Ik this is just for Ana and Giygas having possible resistance/invulnerability to it.

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    • Bump

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    • That doesn't mean Mother 3 is in another timeline. It just means it's in the future.

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    • Yeah, I kinda saw the flaw in that, so my bad. I’ll refer to a quote that was said by That one tall guy (aka Leder, Which he mentions that there are different timelines, and Pokey somehow landed within the Mother 3 era. The Mother 3 world is completely different as The original world of Mother came to an end, and what was left is a peaceful island where the Dark Dragon lies within. Those who survived the end of the “world” went to the island via the white ship and had their memories wiped so they can start fresh within the island. So RIP Ness I guess, he was (apparently) originally supposed to be a playable character..) : “Truthfully, we had no idea how Tazmily Village would turn out. But things actually went rather well. The people who had arrived on the White Ship had fully taken to their new identities. They believed they had always lived together peacefully. It was when a person by the name of Porky stumbled upon these islands that everything started to go amok. It seems he used a “Time Distorter” machine to travel through time and space at will. However, he was apparently shut out from all other times and spaces and tumbled into this era and these islands. Even worse, he used his Time Distorter to bring many people from other eras here The Pigmasks, as well as everyone in New Pork City, were all brought here and brainwashed by Porky.

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    • Further more to this “end of the world” in Mother 3, during development of Earthbound 64, we see that there were many unused content that still follows up to the story itself; such as a destroyed Towns that include Onett, Twoson, Threed, and Fourside (we also got a 3D model of what’s supposed to be Ness as well). Basically everything got destroyed, and for those who survived were on the White ship that would take them to the Nowhere Islands, where they get their memories wiped and start fresh.


      Ok, so something interesting popped up in this thread that might lead to an upgrade to the cast. I’ll discuss this tomorrow (I’m also going to add yet another abilities addition to the OP tomorrow as well).

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    • None of that suggests that Mother 3 takes place in another timeline. All it means is that for some reason he got forced into the Mother 3 era. Not a new timeline.

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    • Have you asked some staff members for help? It is unlikely that anything will happen here otherwise.

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    • DaBigP, have you asked to staff members to add these changes? Do you want me to go ask?

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    • @Sprflcrw

      Yes, I politely asked about seven staff members now to reply in this thread (which a few actually did). I guess I can try again or ask others that are available. You can do so if you want, it would help a lot.

      As I mentioned earlier, I’m going to add something new in the op that comes from the thread that I linked earlier.

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    • okay, I'll ask

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    • I still disagree with the 7-B reasonings just to note, the association of saying "well final fantasy and other rpgs do this" doesn't suddenly apply it to earthbound. I still need to see why this would scale to their dura when the environmental page directly states how that becomes combat applicable AP.

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    • @GiverOfThePeace Because the 6th Sanctuary Guardian is a literal God of Thunder, similar to Raiden. Furthermore, it does apply to Earthbound. All characters generally trade blows with characters on their tier regardless of PSI or physical strikes. Furthermore, Sanctuary Guardians should inherently be well above the 7-C Nuclear Robots, so it is consistent. Also, all Sanctuary Guardians have Psychic territories in which all expand beyond a town or city. Thunder and Storms case covers the entire country of Dalaam. Though, not as impressive as the final Guardian having a Multi-Continent sized territory.

      The territory things are seemingly more like range and hax then they are AP, but this is still a very clear cut case of all PSI attacks scaling to their durability and striking strength. Thunder and Storm actually spams his storm feat and uses it in a way that is 100% combat applicable. Also tanks it himself when deflected by Franklin badge as well as trade blows with the party.

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    • Ok again, why does this scale to his combat applicable AP? Raiden should go under the same revisions. How is that relevant when environmental destruction outright notes: "In practice, this is essentially a non-combat applicable Attack Potency; if a character is able to cause weather phenomena or natural disasters without any reasoning that can support their other statistics being at this level of destructive potency, then they should have trouble or lack the capacity to use these powers to damage characters in comparable tiers."? You'd need to show their AP is scalable to their destructive potency too. We aren't even sure if the nuclear robots are 7-C at the moment, and 8-B makes a lot more sense. The reasoning in the thread you listed quite frankly is not enough of a justifiable reason to keep them at 7-C where there exists far smaller nukes at 8-B and the nuclear robot doesn't reach that level. That sounds like a range feat, not a destructive potency feat, you even admit to it right afterwards being range/hax. PSI attacks scaling =/= a non-combat applicable storm suddenly scaling to it's destructive potency. Again, if you can show thye can also provide it combat applicable wise go right ahead.  If I could also get context with how Ness and co. are damaged by said storm that'd be nice.

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    • Sigh, I literally explained everything on the other thread.

      I gave full context why the Nuclear Robots are 7-C. Because the game was made in Japan, it makes far more sense to compare them to nukes Japan's familiar with; which would be the 7-C Nukes. And actually, the smallest nukes are 8-A; 8-B is for non-nuclear missiles, but 7-C is still the accepted end. It's been discussed several times.

      Raiden's feat was also discussed to be 100% combat applicable. He performs storm feats using martial arts, and can literally transform himself into a storm. As well as trade blows with Shao Kahn and Liu Kang, ect. Thunder and Storm is also a literal storm feat. Also, the Attack Potency page does clearly state that you don't have to have destruction in order to qualify for AP. If Storms feats are casually caused and dispersed through physical means, or even caused by characters sneezing, burping, farting, or breathing for example, it scales to all statistics.

      Ainz Ooal Gown is also a character with durability comparable to his storm feats. That's another thing, their PSI shields have similar levels of energy as their PSI attacks. And again, Thunder and Storm's storm feats are 100% combat applicable; he literally uses it to attack the party and can be dispersed through physical means by the party. It also happens in the actual game.

      And yes, I know the supposedly Tier 6 stuff is range and hax, but Thunder and Storms Low 7-B storms are still easily Tier feats.

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    • Being made in japan wouldn't suddenly apply to "oh the nuke is based off big boy", that's a complete assumption with literally no single fact to back it up other then "they live in japan". In the previous discussion one of the nuclear missles noted was 8-B.



      So why in anyway is that comparable to this matter when they're not doing the storm through physical means? I never stated you needed to have destruction in order to qualify for AP, that never was even a basis of my agrument, my entire point was it wasn't combat appplicable AP and I'd need more reason then that for why it'd scale to durability. How is their storm feat casual in the least bit? They literally need to take deep breaths in between turns. If you wasn't referring to them and the system in general, can you show at all where this is stated?



      Ainz has other feats listed there that back up his durability then soley a storm feat. Hell, the main reasoning for his tier 6 tiering is due to him freezing over a lake.  


      Where did you get he dispersed it from? The storm feat doesn't even attack them, it just numbs the user. I don't see either where this scales to their PSI either, is the storm ever remotely stated what level of PSI it is or if it is PSI? I'm assuming it's PSI since their other attacks are PSI based. 

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    • Actually, it is consistent with our standards here to use the country of origin as a background. We use a country's speed limit as the velocity of a speeding car in a lot of our calcs for example. And it was again discussed multiple times that 7-C was the most reasonable for nuclear robots. And again, that "8-B missile" was a non-nuclear missile.

      Also, you keep saying "It's not combat applicable because I say so" without actually explaining scientific details. "Taking breath in between turns" doesn't mean it isn't casual; it's no suicide technique or anything remotely close to that. Also, the fact they they are breathing does imply it requires some notable demonstration of true power to perform it. Proving how more solid the feat is. It's stated in the guidebooks that they cause devastating storms also. There were links and sources to it on the other thread.

      Earthbound also has other back up feats; Krakens do cause At least Multi-City Block level+ tornados and can trigger Tsunamis. Master Belch can produce a plague that covered a couple towns and an entire mountain.

      Thunder and Cloud themself, is a literal living storm cloud. And Ness can take it out with a baseball bat; which in turn translates to him dispersing a storm cloud with a baseball bat. So in other words, it does qualify as physical dispersing a storm cloud. Also, again, it's super special unfair treatment to not scale physical attacks and PIS to each other when literally every other JRPG does that with physical attacks and magic. And it's for the same reasons, that they trade blows with each other, with the same enemies, does similar levels of damage ect. Also, their attack is called Crashing Boom Bang Attack; just a note.

      Going to RL work for now.

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    • Can I see where? A country's speed limit is current history, not old history that it doesn't seem is being referenced in the least bit here. That's two completely different scenarios. It being discussed by people that aren't objective sources don't mean much. Alright show proof for it being non-nuclear please.

      I never said that in the least bit, you're just attempting to interpret my argument that way. I linked the server several times. Why would it need to be a suicide technqiue to not be casual? It takes a great amount of effort for them to do it if they're out of breath for an entire turn after doing said attack. Hax can do the same thing, that wouldn't suddenly prove the feat scales to duraility now. Mana draining is a thing.

      8-A+ =/= Low 7-B so I don't know how that backs it up, the cast also has trouble against said Kraken. Again, range.

      Is there anything officially stating it's a literal living storm cloud or are you interpreting it as such? That's a huge assumption based off him fighting a storm cloud. It also states he made them tame, not dispersed them if we want to be technical. All that would imply is giygas mind r@ped a literal storm cloud and Ness removed said mind r@pe like he does with other enemies. Ness never really "kills" anyone he fights. Then either downgrade those other JRPGs/they have legitimate reason to it. I don't see a legitimate reason here. Crashing Boom Bang Attack is literally referenced as PSI Thunder on the wikia and iirc several guides, thunder is not inherently Low 7-B on it's own and that's the only real attack they use to harm Ness and co. with. 

      Alright.

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    • @Medeus

      So what are the conclusions here?

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    • For starters, it's generally agreed by some supporters and staff, though there's a few disagreements. But the 7-C characters are proposed to be upgraded to Low 7-B scaling from this calc. The reasons against it are generally knit picks as they're consistent with other feats and said feat would be literally impossible unless their PSI powers were on that level or above. So it does tie in with the standards of other JRPG verses and MLP among other things.

      There's also the new character Truth mentioned in the OP, as well as numerous other hax. Though, I did get lost. But the parts I do agree with are the mid tiers being upgraded as well as the abilities Dargoo Faust accepted. I'd still like to hear more input from someone like DarkAnine though. Transformation via bag of dragonite, Summoning via Honey Flower, statistics amplification via offense and defense spray, explosion manipulation with various bombs and pencil rockets. Forget if there was anything else approved though.

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    • Okay. Thank you for the explanation.

      You can ask some other appropriate staff members to help out here if you wish.

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    • So is that a no on the minor time stop resist?

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    • I'm unsure where that part came from and I think a few people said it was a game mechanic.

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    • GreyFang82 wrote: Ok, so for the time stop people keep saying "game mechanics" because this attack is interpreted by one person to be omni directional so dodging it would be GM.

      It was never stated to be that, but even if it was, dodging "time stop" isn't what makes Ness resistant to it.





      When using this move the music stops leaving the only sound effects playing being the attack missing or hitting the characters, This is the only move that ever does this so it there to show that the flow of time has stopped and the clock is then unleashing a flurry of attacks while time is stopped. Right after the flurry of blows the music plays to show time has resumed. Dodging the flurry of attacks should show Ness and the others can briefly move in stopped time. Besides instead of full resistance we can have it say "Minor Resistance to Time Stop" and put Ness can briefly move in stopped time to dodge attacks.

      Hopefully that helps

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    • If somebody writes a TLDR summary of the conclusions so far and then asks various staff members to comment here, we could actually reach a conclusion. Otherwise we are nearing the point when this discussion should be closed for unnecessarily wasting all of our time.

      Here are some of the less frequently asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input:

      Ryukama

      Promestein

      SomebodyData

      Darkanine

      Reppuzan

      Dragonmasterxyz

      Celestial Pegasus

      Dark649

      Soldier Blue

      Monarch Laciel

      Kaltias

      Assaltwaffle

      Saikou The Lewd King

      Kepekley23

      Antoniofer

      Gemmysaur

      PaChi2

      Ultima Reality

      AKM Sama

      Dargoo Faust

      MrKingOfNegativity

      Theglassman12

      Wokistan

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    • I suppose minor resistance to time stop seems reasonable then. And I'll try to make a quick summary of some of the accepted stuff to a few staff members; mainly and those familiar with the game.

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    • Thank you, but it may be better to post the summary here, and then ask the staff members to respond.

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    • Dark you can't call it nitpicks when several of the things I've noted are big, and I already established the problem with "they're consistent". Either refute my argumentation or don't result to pettyness of ignoring my refute and resulting to "oh the refutations are nitpicks and don't get it".

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    • @GiverofThePeace, at this point, it's probably better to take it up to my wall as to not clutter this thread further. Matthew Schroeder said it best that people are starting to exaggerate with the "Environmental destruction" policies. The main facts are, one it still requires multiple Megatons of energy in order to perform at bare minimum in the first place; two, other PSI attacks such as Freeze Omega, Rockin Gamma, and Starstorm Omega require more PP to perform; implying there's even more energy being generated in those attacks. So in other words, all top tier PSI techniques should be Low 7-B or above however you look at it. And physical attacks still do similar levels of damage to the same enemies so that scales too.

      Anyway, if you want to continue that discussion further, please move to my wall.

      General Summary so far: It was generally accepted that the mid tiers can be upgraded to Low 7-B scaling from the 6th Sanctuary Guardian, Thunder and Storm who can do this. Other abilities included Transformation via bag of dragonite, Summoning via Honey Flower, Statistics Amplification via offense and defense spray, Explosion Manipulation with various bombs and pencil rockets, and minor resistance to Time Stop; there was an ability that indicated time stop during attack which Ness and party can briefly move to dodge. But then there are other abilities many have deemed iffy.

      The OP also mentions some more quick summaries closer to the bottom, such as Low 2-C characters having other abilities characters who are "One with the universe" have, and a new god tier named "Truth of the Universe."

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    • @Medeus

      Okay. The agreed upon parts seem fine to apply then.

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    • @Dark

      Thank you for handling this CRT, much appreciated. Do we still need more staff inputs?

      I could probably ask again for input or ask new staff with the summary that’s given to us.

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    • I think that Medeus' accepted changes should probably be fine to apply.

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    • Alright then, that is fine by me.

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    • Is somebody experienced willing to carry out the changes?

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    • I could, but it seems most of the profiles are locked. Ninten, Ana (Earthbound), Ness, Pokey Minch, Starman (Earthbound), Lucas (Earthbound), Kumatora, and Masked Man would all need their profiles unlocked.

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    • Okay. I will do so.

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    • Tell me here when you are done.

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    • I have updated the profiles accordingly.

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    • Thank you.

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    • Should we close this thread?

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    • Thank you once again, but you forgot to add minor Resistance to Time stop for Paula And Poo, an addition to other items and resistance. We also completely left out Giygas and need to make a profile of the new character “Truth of The Universe”.

      I think we should leave this open for now.

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    • Okay.

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    • Okay, so why is minor resistance to time stop being added? I thought we decided it was a game mechanic. By the way, while I do agree with the Truth of the Universe stuff, it's clear that Mother 3 isn't in another timeline or anything, and I don't think it should be above the Dark Dragon.

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    • I merely updated the stuff that were generally accepted; some of those other things I vaguely heard needed links or a bit more input as Dargoo Faust mentioned. It was only Ness and Jeff that resisted Dali's Clock. Was there another enemy that had that ability and used it against Poo or Paula? If so, please link it. @Sptflcrw Reason it's still minor resistance is that they can still dodge while time is stopped, which is limited but still minor resistance.

      And as for equipment resistances, I think they're good; at least some of the elemental ones, but I think some were thought to be game mechanics. I think resistance to the various elements via pendants is fine, but resistance to OHK is considered a game mechanic. And Dargoo wanted some links to show evidence. And Dargoo seemed skeptical about the new ability additions for Giygas.

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    • @Dark

      Look back at “Minor Resistance to Time stop”; there are links that said that the Dali’s Clock also appeared in Dungen Man and not just in Moonside, so that would cover Paula and Poo. OHK is a part of PK Flash (which, with the equipment on, it is able to resist that), I don’t see why it is considered “game mechanics”; especially when these equipments are said to be everyday items but with an addition to it.

      Look above for links on Giygas, Items, and Truth of The Universe (the wall of text basically, it’s long but worth it)


      @Sptflcrw

      The Dark Dragon can only reset/or destroy one universe, Truth is above that. Yeah, it does take place some unknown amount of years after Earthbound (there are other existing future that I mentioned tho), but that doesn’t mean it’s not 2-C.

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    • OHK in general is often considered NLF unless there's legitimate death manipulation involved. A giant flash of pure light shouldn't normally cause one hit death; though it's possible for surprise intense lights to cause blindness, and head seizures, and perhaps make people faint. It's more so knocking them unconscious rather than killing them. So it would be resistance to Bright Light if anything. And I'm a bit too tied up to read the full paragraph for Giygas and Truth stuff, but I guess I can add the time stop resistance to Paula and Poo's profile.

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    • The description of PK Flash says it would sometimes “destroy the enemy in a signal strike” , so it is still possible but I have my doubts since the game used to be rated K-A; and if that’s the case, then it should be revised.


      And ok, read it when you have time.

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    • No. Dodging attacks during stopped time is game mechanics. PK Flash causing seizures is massive headcanon. Dark Dragon was stated to end everything. He's the big kahuna. Top dog. Hell, Itoi said that if Masked Man woke up the Dark Dragon, then even he would die.

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    • I still don’t see why it’s considered “Game mechanics”, you might as well say their speed of light rating is game mechanics too. Dark Dragon used to be 2-C because of that reasoning but that statement is considered Reality Fiction interaction, so I don’t think Dark Dragon is Above Truth (Pretty sure DD is Baseline, while just touching truth immediately grants you Low 2-C tiering).

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    • I don't think dodging attacks in time stop is game mechanics. I don't see why it would be considered as such. Its no more game mechanics then pokemon dodging attacks that are a certain speed. Its a feat. You may as well say that them dodging light is a game mechanic

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    • They can dodge attacks that move at the speed of light. Pretty cut and dry. Dodging a time stop isn't like that though. That's illogical, and it's pretty clearly game mechanics. I realize it doesn't make Dark Dragon 2-C, but I think it's something notable. Besides, Dark Dragon was stated to be able to end all of existence, not just the universe. Also, it's not like Ness got Low 2-C because he touched Truth. The Truth bestowed the power upon him.

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    • But they didn't dodge time being stopped, time stopped (which cannot be stopped or dodged) and then the clock unleashed a barrage of attacks. Ness is able to dodge THOSE attacks NOT the Time Stop.

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    • GreyFang82 wrote:
      But they didn't dodge time being stopped, time stopped (which cannot be stopped or dodged) and then the clock unleashed a barrage of attacks. Ness is able to dodge THOSE attacks NOT the Time Stop.

      Any evidence of this?

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    • I aint watched Yoshiller in years. That brings back some memories

      Someone should definitely isolate that into a gif so it can be linked on the profile. I can see what I can do

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    • I made a gif version. Hope the water mark is acceptable

      Ness dodges attacks in stopped time
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    • Should of been Chuggaaconroy

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    • So what still needs to be done here?

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    • Good old Chugga

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    • Antvasima wrote: So what still needs to be done here?

      - Profile creation of a new character (which I don’t know how to do)

      - Need to get an ok from Medeus to add in more abilities

      That’s all.

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    • Every other character I've seen who's gotten Small City level from a generic storm has gotten a plus sign. Was it agreed somewhere that Earthbound should have the low end?

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    • Arrogant Schmuck wrote:
      Every other character I've seen who's gotten Small City level from a generic storm has gotten a plus sign. Was it agreed somewhere that Earthbound should have the low end?

      Considering the fact that the only description of the Storm we have are names and context, a Lowball would be more suitable me thinks.

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    • @DaBigP

      Okay.

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    • Minor, quick thing but shouldn't Negative Man's AP be changed? He's rated Low 7-B for doing... a single hitpoint of damage to Lucas.

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    • Negative Man was originally Small Town Level, should we downgrade it to Town Level or Unknown?

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    • Probably unknown, unless there's a feat for Mother 3 fodders

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    • Yeah, I agree with unknown.

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    • I'm neutral for Negative Man, but I don't really like backwards scaling to High 7-C or something. I'm fine with changing him to Unknown though.

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    • Only for his ap and striking?.

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    • Yeah, that sounds good.

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    • Done.

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    • Thank you

      Do you want to give your thoughts on Giygas and The new character?

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    • His Mind, Void and Illusion abilities are fine.

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    • @Dark649 & Medeus

      Thank you for the help.

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    • Iapitus The Impaler wrote:
      I made a gif version. Hope the water mark is acceptable
      Ness dodges attacks in stopped time

      Again, this seems like a game mechanic. 

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    • Are you dead ass gonna ignore all of the stuff said above? 

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    • Me

      >Compromises and wants only Minor Resistance to Time Stop

      >Gives reasonable explaintation on why dodging attacks while time is stopped isn't the same as dodging time being stopped

      >Gives Evidences in the form of a direct video

      Sptflcrw

      >Dodging Light is viable and not game mechanics

      On the Matter of Resisting Time Stop

      >It's game mechanics tho

      Also Me


      Whydoesthisexist
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    • Ok, lets try not to be rude though...

      @Sptflcrw

      The majority had already agreed to Minor resistance and it's already on their profiles. So please, dismiss the argument of it being gameplay mechanics.

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    • @Greyfang82

      Okay, didn't see that post you made about why it isn't game mechanics. I suppose that's fair enough, I agree. 

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    • Thank you sptflcrw, I'm sorry if I came off disrespectful

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    • Right, thanks. Now then, to finally end it all..

      Dark had agreed on Giygas’s ability and so did Medeus. Medeus and I talked for a bit about the new character, and he agreed on it. Assalt had agreed that Truth should be 2-C. Now we just need to create the truths profile and edit Ness, Paula, Jeff, Giygas, Lucas, and The Masked Man to add more abilities like resistance with certain items and Fate/probability manipulation, etc.


      How’s that sound?

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    • cool

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    • DaBigP wrote:
      Right, thanks. Now then, to finally end it all..
      Now its time for so long - Blue's Clues Ending Song

      Now its time for so long - Blue's Clues Ending Song

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    • Bump

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    • What is left to do here?

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    • There was the equipment based resistances to Fire, Ice, Electricity, Light, ect with various bands and pendants. And the god tier stuff DaBigP mentioned that was accepted. I'm going to be a little busy today, but I might add them when I come back from work.

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    • Did the Ana stuff I brought/Gigue resistances ever get noticed past DaBig's replies?

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    • DaBigP wrote: @GiverOfThePeace I am not sure actually, while it does say it puts them in critical condition, it’s a form of Ice Manipulaton and it’s possible that it’s some NLF stuff; that, and along with Giegue somehow being Resistant to it, which could also be NLF (which sounds like Invulnerability actually). But someone can correct me on that. However, I do agree with PK Beam Gamma being OHK.

      Giegue should just have invulnerability IMO; he did after all had this ability back then, but got removed for unknown reasons.

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    • I don't see why it wouldn't be durability negation though, it makes most enemies and even bosses(like the Dragon) go down to critical health. The only NLF thing to say is that it'd work on anyone. 

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    • Whoops, I’m pretty sure I said I agreed with Dura negation.

      But if I did not, I agree.

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    • Ah kk.

      So Ana should get Dura Negation/OHK and Giygas either gets resistance to those/invunerability.

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    • Ye. For Giegue, like I said, I’d say invulnerability since he had that previously.

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    • @Medeus

      Okay. Thank you for the help.

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    • Just in case, here are abilities that still needs to be added:

      The protagonist of EBB (Ninten, Ana, Lloyd, and Teddy): Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, OHK, Power nullification, "blindness", Paralysis, Sleep Manipulation, Durability negation, and Confusion via pendants.

      Ana: Durability negation via PK Freeze Gamma

      Giegue: Invulnerability, Passive Mind Manipulation (Giygas needs to be unlocked btw) Giygas: Abstract existence (Type 1), Illusion Creation via the Mani Mani statue, Passive Void Manipulation

      Protagonist of EB (Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo): Fate and Probability Manipulation, Ectoplasm Manipulation and Poison Manipulation via Pharao's curse, Sound Manipulation: Via Stag Beetle, Resistance to: Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Status Effects Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, and Sleep Manipulation) via Pendants and Bracelets. Standard equipment should include the teddy bear

      Ness: The removal of hypnosis weakness (which states "smart ones" can avoid it, that needs to go) (Post Magicant) Reality Warping, Matter Manipulation, Fusionism, Large Size (Type 8), Cosmic Awareness, Higher-Dimensional Existence, and possibly Non-Corporeality. He also gets more Low 2-C justification added to his profile "Created Magicant, Which was stated to be an entire universe in the original text"


      The Truth needs to get his profile created, so so here is the sandbox that Chrisras created, you can use it as reference or something...

      Protagonist of Mother 3 (Lucas, Boney, Duster, and Kumatora): Possible Durability Negation via The New Year’s Eve bomb, Can break physical and psychic shields with Shield Snatcher, Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Status Effect Inducement (Paralysis, Confusion, Uncontrollably crying, Sleep Manipulation, and Poison), and healing (brings back health every turn.) with special clothing, bracelets and Pendants.

      Lucas: Fate and Probability Manipulation

      The Masked Man: Fate and Probability Manipulation

      Duster: Sound Manipulation via Siren Beetle

      Hopefully I did not miss anything.

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    • Can you give brief summaries of why those abilities should be added?

      If necessary, you can also ask the staff members that I mentioned earlier to comment here if you wish.

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