Most of it isn't canon since they're just trophies and not the real characters, but the Kid Icarus characters are implied to be the canon ones, and the amiibo characters in FE:fates are the same ones as from smash
What if they were just enhanced by something that Master Hand did so they wouldn`t actually hurt each other, so when any of them runs out of stamina or wants to rest (or anything in those lines), turns into a "toy"?
Well, since aparently Low 2-C fighters is not "accurate" (Even tho they fought both Hands, Giga Bowser and Tabuu who are all Low 2-C) they would be stuck at at pathetic tier 7, which is fodder to almost every single fighter in their canon version.
So yeah, unless they are Tier 4 or higher, they are literally useless to even have around imo.
RapidMotorcycle19 wrote: Name 3 Low 7-B out of your head that fit with the smash Bros verse.
Define "fit the Smash Bros. Verse"?
I don't see how this at all relates to your point about "usefulness".
We are primarily an indexing site. VS Debating threads are just there as a secondary. We call ourselves VS Battles Wiki because obviously that sounds more exciting than "Character Index Wiki", and it was a name inherited by the wiki's founder.
Regardless Master Hand is the literal god of the Smash Universe and Tabuu one shot him. It's the same story. In fact, that makes it even more of an outlier. Lore wise Master Hand and Crazy Hand are far above the entire Smash cast.
A single feat that's shared by the whole cast is still a single feat, not 30+ Low 2-C feats.
Your argument is that because they are "Literal Gods" they simply cannot be hurt? (Seriously, what does "literal gods" even mean in this context?)
They logically should be far superior to the fighters lore wise, and the fighters being able to hurt them is an outlier. I call them "literal gods" because they are responsible for the creation of the universe in Smash Lore.
Anyways, Master Hand was one shotted, not "curbstomped". (Is that even an argument?)
You're nitpicking at my word choice here. "He was one-shot, not curbstomped, therefore your point no longer stands".
Yes, it is indeed an argument. It proves that Tabuu is far stronger than them, and that makes it even more of an outlier than scaling to them in the first place.
And, the biggest proof on my side is that Sonic broke Tabuu´s wings and Ganondorf was able to strike Tabuu before being pushed away by the forcefield.
You've ignored half of my post and continued to use the feats to justify themselves. Telling me how Sonic damaged Tabuu's wings doesn't make the feat consistent; it's the very feat that you're trying to prove isn't an outlier. You can't use the feat itself as proof that the feat isn't an outlier.
I'm arguing that the feats are outliers, not that they don't exist.
Scaling the Smash Bros cast to Master Hand or Tabuu is the equivalent of scaling Dan Hibiki to Akuma, scaling Mokap to Shao Kahn, or scaling Batman to the Spectre. This has been discussed multiple times and turns out to be repetitive.
DarkDragonMedeus wrote: Scaling the Smash Bros cast to Master Hand or Tabuu is the equivalent of scaling Dan Hibiki to Akuma, scaling Mokap to Shao Kahn, or scaling Batman to the Spectre. This has been discussed multiple times and turns out to be repetitive.
Nah, it is really not.
I think i have sufficient proof that preperly states that...
The fact that he is the source of all creation in the universe means he created the entire cast, thus meaning is still obviously far superior to them. In fact this means he created the stars and the planets, and even if we assume he did it one celestial body at a time, it means he generated the GBE to necessitate that. That's at least 4-C, but we generally treat that stuff as 4-A.
Regardless that's just a supporter feat. He's superior to the creation trio, whom he also should have created at some point. They have universal statements on their trophies.
Either way you cut it he's far superior to the cast. And scaling them to the guy who oneshot him is the same story; it's an outlier. They're currently ranked as Low 7-B due to Kirby's Down B feat, which is far more likely to scale to everyone, as it's a feat performed by a generic fighter that has been there since the beginning, not "literally god".
I'll respond to any points you pose later. It's 3 AM here.
Uh no, some characters are legit above all their peers and/or show progression in power levels; especially Dragon Ball and JRPG characters. Here, is a fighting game with static power levels outside of PIS, and which Tabuu and Master Hand are canonically above the entire playable cast put together. Tabuu stomps the party as easily as Sindel stomps the Mortal Kombat 9 cast. Sonya Blade is clearly not on par with Raiden or Shao Kahn.
@Rein ... I don't agree with that for obvious reasons.
Sonic in Smash Bros .... Sort of bodied Tabuu without trying. They should scale to him post-Smash Bros Brawl I would believe... Because at least that would allow circular scaling. If we allowed, we could potentially see it like this :
Smash Bros Brawl l Post-Smash Bros Brawl
Those who would appear Post-Smash Bros Brawl would scale to Sonic, who fought Tabuu. Sonic doesn't neccessarily fight anyone else in Smash sans Tabuu during Brawl . So... It could be a possible way to scale everyone to it .
I know. It's a joke. As I played SSB games and even pretty meta at it, I'm baffled with their tiers. How should they not scale to Master Hand and guys? We even defeated Tabuu in Subspace Emissary and Master Core in SSB 4.
I just used those keys because of consistency. In my personal opinion: It makes much more sense for them to scale to Sonic post-SSBB rather than during Super Smash Bros Brawl... Since they showed Sonic as ridiculously superior to everyone else . This way ... It's at least more consistent .
Rrinhard, 2nd and therefir agree with me having low 2-c as an optional, separate form.
Seriously, what bothers you so much of havimng a separate form for this?
Just let us have the option, and it is backed up by Sonic's and Ganondorf's feats, the description for Smash Brawl's Master Hand and Smash world being a separate reality than the real world.
Not to mention that CLASSIC MODE is shown to be canon in Master Hand's throphy, saying he outright challenges the fighters.
I'd rather not arbitrarily split 64, Melee and such from the rest of the games, especially not if it's used to wank the verse.
It's pretty consistent that Master Hand is an allegory for a kid playing with his toys. Scaling the "toys" themselves (the Smashers) to it can't really work.
Regardless, we had an entire thread debunking this earlier. Unless you have something new to bring up, there is little reasons for this discussion.
On the other hand, saying that scaling to Tabuu doesn't work because he one-shot everyone is flawed; he did so with his strongest attack, and he was only defeated once said attack was disabled by Sonic.