As you can probably tell by my name, I'm a fan of Death Battle, and the latest one (Sephiroth vs Vergil) brought up something curious: Seph may NOT be SS level
Yeah, Sephiroth's Nova isn't quite what it seems, as in he doesn't actually CAUSE it. Seph actually pulls his victims into an alternate world where the supernova happens naturally, and DB's reasoning is very sound: if Sephiroth could summon comets capable of destroying solar systems, why even need the Black Materia and Meteor?
So, yeah, I really don't think Sephiroth is SS level since he really doesn't cause the supernova to happen
The blast takes place in a different dimension, just like summons, true. However, dragging people may be different from dragging the whole planet and the Black Materia may be needed to summon the Meteor on the FFVII particular planet. And from what I get, Sephy needs to destroy the planet to use it as a vessel to find his "promised land" and get the lifestream to control it, but if he just obliterated it that would make his objectives pointless (the Supernovas do pretty much erase the planets they hit as seen in the vids).
Nah, I mean 3.1 megaFoe is the power of the entire Supernova, so 3.1 megaFoe durability would be granted if someone tanked the explosion at the origin point, as opposed to farther out. I forget where the party was located, at the time.
The Japanese Version of the Supernova feat. The one that's canon and matters, involves the sun literally blowing up exponentaneously without any meteor hitting it, and the explosion is ridiculously fast and the calc wields like, 1GigaFoe. And it is the doing of Sephiroth. All Limit Breaks and Special Moves which aren't summons are the result of the characters' doing.
Death Battle's argument isn't very good considering that Final Fantasy VII and Crisis Core are both full of feats above Planet level.
Assuming that the explosion is as large as the orbit of Earth, the gang would only be exposed to a tiny fraction of the explosion's power.
An explosion like that would have 2.83×10^23 meters in surface area, and even if you assumed that they take up 6 square meters in area (which they don't) that would end up with them anything an absolutely TINY fraction of the explosion.
Looks like the JP version is the feat's saving grace. The Meteor could be argued as chain reaction and they wouldn't tank the full blast of it expanding outward. That said if Seph just detonates the star outright that proves his power.
Assaltwaffle wrote: Looks like the JP version is the feat's saving grace. The Meteor could be argued as chain reaction and they wouldn't tank the full blast of it expanding outward. That said if Seph just detonates the star outright that proves his power.
Yeah. The Ultimania Guidebook, which is canon, straight up says that Sephiroth causes a Supernova, and it is based on the Japanese version.
"Let's say an explosion occurs and a character endures the explosion. If that explosion doesn't occur close to the character the amount of energy that hits it will be significantly lower than the full energy of the explosion. To find the actual amount of the energy from the explosion that he/she tanks one first applies the inverse square law."
If characters are far away from an explosion they don't get hit by the brunt of it, even more so if the explosion is on an interplanetary scale.
So let me check: Apparently Sephiroth only summoned (or teleported the party to) a supernova, so the rating of the verse only depend of how much the party was separated from the supernova. So, there's no way to known the distance between them? Watching the most recent DB, the "wall of fire" was already pretty big when it reaches the party.
Antoniofer wrote: So let me check: Apparently Sephiroth only summoned (or teleported the party to) a supernova, so the rating of the verse only depend of how much the party was separated from the supernova. So, there's no way to known the distance between them? Watching the most recent DB, the "wall of fire" was already pretty big when it reaches the party.
We've been saying: there's also the japanese version of the Supernova where he creates the explosion on his own.
Read the thread. That's not the feat we scale the characters from. We use the Japanese version, where there is no meteor nor expanding wall of fire where the characters are away from. And it actually wields like a thousand times more.
Welp, if that is the case, then Sephiroth woukd have a key for that attack. But, if everyone else was severy injured after when they weren't close of the epicenter it will still change the durability/ST of everyone else, assuming that they weren't pretty close to the epicenter.
Not really. Seph has the power to make and survive the explosion out of his own power. He uses this same power to fight them consistently. He his damaged by the opposing party, and they are damaged by him in return. It is completely fine scaling wise.
nothing really indicates they are far away from him, the explosion could be right where Sephiroth is. In the american version it's likely the party is where Earth is located, which I guess is why the confusion begins.
In the English version the feat would need to be redone. Meteor could have chain-reacted the Sun to explode and they are far away and still take damage. Japanese version is what we're using, since he doesn't need a meteor and the explosions are absolutely huge and occur close to the team.
Yes, indeed. It's what I've been saying as well. I didn't express myself well, sorry =P
What I was trying to say is that we can't assume the explosion, in the japanese version, began where the sun would be located because the american animation shows that (given they are different attack animations altogether and all). While not pinpointed due to the faraway shot, it could be right where Sephiroth is (and would make sense).
@Matt: Given how overblow FF can be, oh yeah. And it will look awesome!
He teleported to a star that was going supernova that just happened to have an iron core planet that looks like Venus and a gas giant that has Jupiter's iconic planet-sized red storm? I think that is quite a bit of a stretch, don't you?
Issue is, there are several issues with that idea: how can he guess where there will be a Supernova in the right moment? Seph doesn't have any sort of psychic power to scan the universe; why would he transport the party faraway from the explosion when he could put them right in it?; and the attack begins with a close up of him before showing the faraway explosion, there aren't any stars, just planets and space, you can see the explosion begins in a black area, not in a star. It actually comes as less likely to think the factors just happened to be there.
I probably didn't word it right. It's possible he teleported the party to an alternate version of our solar system at the precise moment the sun exploded. Hey, Seph has dimension warping powers, anything is possible
Our Sun isn't going to Supernova. It isn't the kind of star that can do that. Also is it really more likely that Seph can peer into the future, find the exact moment that a scientifically impossible event will occur, and then go to that time, just to hit them with the blast?
Is that really that much more believable than him just being SS level? Honestly being able to jump to any point in history or the future instantly would actually be stupid broken. Just bring someone to the Big Bang or the Big Rip/Heat Death/Other end of the universe. Enemy gone.
Kinda what I said, Sephy doesn't have any sort of precognition or psychic abilities to observe the universe like that, much less alternate dimensions. He also doesn't have any dimension warping powers beyond dragging enemies for the Supernova itself, giving him the ability to pinpoint specific space time and travel or warp others there would be giving him an ability he doesn't have, wouldn't it?
And as Assalt said, our Sun can't go Supernova (not enough mass), it will turn into a red giant.
Also, as I said in my previous post, if you look closely at the video, you'll see that there aren't any stars when the explosion occurs, just some planets, it actually starts in empty space. Stars show up when the explosion is almost done.
In order for anyone with dimension hopping powers to use them effectively, wouldn't they need to be able to "see" into alternate dimensions, so as not to accidentally warp into the sun's core, an active volcano, etc?
Most people who can jump between universes just end up in the exact same location, or a random one. I can't think of many that pre-plan their destination, and Seph has not shown to be able to do this. The rationalization bridge has to keep getting longer for "Seph is not SS level" to work.
Not necessarily. It would be ideal, but characters have traveled dimensions without knowing where they end up. And there's a rather big difference between seeing where you'll be ending up right away and scanning the universe for this particular phenomena. It also clashes with his objectives in advent children where he outright says to Cloud he plans to use the planet as a vessel to search for a suitable one. Why would he need any of that if he could just search the universe and teleport there?
And as I've insisted, in the video, there aren't any stars where the explosion occurs, just a black void.
The only thing that needs to be adjusted is the calculation of the japanese attack, as it originated from earth not the sun, it's still megafoe 4-B regardless and the calc uses the whole surface area of jupiter rather than the cross sectional area which is the standard meaning the result is higher than what's initially estimated.
In addition, the fight takes place with the party ten feet in front of him. In both the International and Japanese versions there's no indication that either of them have moved from their position and Sephiroth is sitting in the middle of the epicenter.