• ScarletFirefly
    ScarletFirefly closed this thread because:
    09:47, November 10, 2017

    This isn't as big a deal as the first one but I would like to make a CRT for it. This is only for Aleister Crowley

    Firstly what exact tier do we give his Big Bang Bomb.

    Relevent quotes:

    hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of organism weapons were blown into the air, swept away, vaporized, and thoroughly contaminated to the last cell. This was not just on a planetary scale. This blew away the entire “world” including every last galaxy and nebula. For those chosen as a target, there was no escape. The meaning of what was “possible” was cruelly distorted. This far exceeded a neutron bomb or pure fusion bomb and added a much-too-evil attack to human history.

    This had originally been a secret technique meant to take on every last Magic God at once. Even if the one taking the damage had a limit to their imagination, her enemy’s mind would be mercilessly blown away by enough energy to create the universe ten times over.

    ^Note that the 10x power was because of the blasting rods effect, which increases the power of what his enemies perceive by 10x

    That big bang…well, it was technically ten times that, but it created a great many things. Radiation was one of those and it is a powerful medicine that can be used for good or bad.

    ^Noted to have created radiation and many other things.

    So going by these quotes is it Low 2-C or 3-A?

    Also amongst ourselves in the ToAru discussion thread we all have differing opinions on what to do with Aleisters speed. I'm fine with not giving him immeasurable speed within the universe for obvious reasons

    but I also don't think hes as slow as peak human or subsonic. At least not his reaction time anyways.

    I say this because he was the one who attacked fiamma at the end of ww3

    He had been utterly unable to detect the activation of the magic for the strike or the preliminary signs of that activation. The attack fired at Fiamma from behind had mercilessly carved his body apart. His right arm was the symbol of his power. Having lost that arm, Fiamma screamed while scattering red blood across the white snow. He held the wound with his other hand and turned around. A strange magician was there. He had waist-long pale silver hair. He had a graceful face with an expression on it that’s identity could not even be guessed. In the freezing cold, he was wearing only a green surgical gown. He had an odd atmosphere that made him seem both male and female, both adult and child, and both saint and sinner. Fiamma knew. Fiamma of the Right knew that magician. But…

    “…Aleister Crowley…?”

    At any rate, Crowley was in a different dimension. He was in a higher place than Fiamma who had declared he held the power needed to save all of humanity while he was still an existence that could be counted with that world’s numbers. “…Why?” Fiamma muttered. “I could not do it. I should have had the power needed to save this world just like the Son of God. And yet I could not do it.”

    Two forms clashed and one of them fell from a slope of the mountain. Silence returned to the snowy plains of Russia. The victor glanced down the slope and spoke as his body dissolved into the air. “…You tried to explain that right hand, Imagine Breaker…and even The One Who Purifies God using only something at the level of Christianity. That was your mistake.”

    Fiammas HR did not block his sneak attack from behind despite blocking a lightspeed laser. And after they had a short discussion they clashed again with Fiamma falling down the mountainside

    Aleister should at least have comparable reactions to Fiamma, who is comparable to Ollerus who both fought Othinus. Which is lightspeed reactions.

    Also based on the quote above Aleister seems to trump fiamma and is described as in a entirely different dimension to him. He should be at least High 6-A scaling to fiamma in this case for his base ap

    EDIT: Oh. And we need to change Aleisters Bilocation to Multilocation. Since he can summon more than two of his potentials at a time

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    • As I mentioned, I'll agree with whatever the standard for Big Bangs is, 3-A or Low 2-C.

      I'm a bit unsure on the reactions bit scaling to Fiamma given his actual feats, but I'll support it and assume it's just Kamachi underestimating how powerful he made his characters again.

      I do not agree with scaling his regular AP to Fiamma. The clash is undescribed and he could be using Blasting Rod (pretty likely since he brought out the fake staff and everything), which given that his sneak attack had earlier bypassed the Holy Right would be extremely effective against Fiamma, who would immediately think that Aleister is stronger than him. The different dimension bit is obviously talking about, that's why it talks about Fiamma being an existence that can be counted with numbers. Not to mention this is not base Fiamma, this is Fiamma minus his right arm (the conduit to controlling his Holy Right and the symbol of his power) and with an unstable and apparently less powerful Holy Right.

      I agree with the Bilocation change to Multilocation. Should probably link it to Duplication too.

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    • We can also upgrade tsuchimikado's pistol to Relativistic+/Lightspeed attack speed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

      Im a bit confused about what you said regarding the different dimension thing, do you mean that it's referencing Aleisters power of Multilocation as the reason hes in a different dimension to him?

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    • Truly Academy City's technology is BS.

      Yeah. The full quote is this:

      Even then, Aleister Crowley still existed in the center of Academy City.

      But at the same time, Aleister Crowley existed before Fiamma.

      Multiple versions of him such as a clone did not exist.

      It was just that the single one of him existed in multiple locations.

      It was a phenomenon that destroyed the basic concept of counting, but that was just what the domain at the top was like. The Sephirot used various words and numbers to create an explanation of the spiritual world, but organizations above a certain level could not be explained using words, so they were intentionally omitted.

      Did someone who entered that domain reach one of those upper organizations or did reaching one of those upper organizations cause one’s domain to transform into that domain?

      At any rate, Crowley was in a different dimension.

      He was in a higher place than Fiamma who had declared he held the power needed to save all of humanity while he was still an existence that could be counted with that world’s numbers.

      Note that this turns out to be wrong and that was totally another version/possibility of Aleister.

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    • Yeah Rereading that way does make more sense. I agree ignore the ap upgrade then.

      I'm interested in others opinion about what to do with this BigBang.

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    • Bumpity

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    • The quotes says creating the universe so its seems to be a low 2-C kinda Big bang.

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    • Bump

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    • I'd rather say it looks like 3-A. The true big bang isn't an explosion anywhere near like described here.

      It creating the universe isn't enough to make it Low 2-C if it's portrayed like that.

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    • Given that it's supposed to blow away minds and create a new universe, I' more inclined to believe it to be a Low 2-C feat, but I'm not exactly great with cosmic level feats in any case.

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    • Low 2-C is what I would put the big bang as.

      The first part, "This was not just on a planetary scale. This blew away the entire “world” including every last galaxy and nebula. ", makes it seem mostly like simple physical force, but "enough energy to create the universe ten times overimplies low 2-C.

      Also , this was apparently a technique to take on all the Magic Gods at once. And even after infinitely dividing their power, they are still Low 2-C iirc

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    • Low 2-C Big Bang seems to be more likely here imo.

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    • Inclined to agree with Saikou here, as it's portrayed as a destructive feat, and there is no mention of space-time being involved anywhere.

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    • I'm down for Low 2-C there, given the consensus.

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    • Perhaps, "3-A, possibly Low 2-C" could work?

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    • Perhaps, i am honestly neutral here, this is difficult to place down.

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    • Sounds more 3-Aish personally given the lack of any mention of time, but 3-A, likely low 2-C works (either way they would be pretty nicely above the baseline tiers)

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    • You're rarely gonna get a time-space mention in a big bang feat. Like TTGL however, we see not only statments of the energy, but we see the attack giving birth to multiple galaxies. So I think if there's evidence that the attack was capable of forming celestial objects then it could be low 2-C, but 3-A might be better here.

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    • I'm inclined to say Low 2-C as well, given the "create the universe ten times over", but I'm fine with SDs idea of "3-A, likely Low 2-C" as well.

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    • I can't agree on low 2-C here, there is no statement about space-time itself being affected and the way it's worded implies only matter was affected.

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    • A variety of opinions on it, as expected

      I'm fine with 3-A likely low 2-c also

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    • My knowledge on this verse is almost nonexistant, but from the description Aizen provided on that Bomb technique, I don't think it can be classified as Universe level+. Reasons for this are:

      • For it to classify as a Low 2-C feat it needs to erase a 4 dimensional plane, where time as a dimension is included. Nowhere in the provided description does it say that.
      •  For it to classify as a Low 2-C feat, it obviously needs to be on a higher scale then High Universe level.  For this you need to have infinite 3-D power, which again, in the provided description there's nothing supporting it. 
      • The description for Universe level: Characters who can destroy all of the physical matter within an observable universe at full power. More specifically, usually via an explosion, omnidirectional energy blast, or a shockwave, that encompasses all of the stars and planets within a universe.

      This is way more descriptive of the feat compared to the other tiers mentioned above. Destroying the Universe "ten times over" won't put you even on High Universe level let alone Universe level+. To me this is just high end Universe level.

      Just my two cents since I was asked to give an opinion on this.

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    • So even though it says it has the energy to create the universe, we cannot assume low 2-C? @scarlet

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    • I don't think we can assume the Low 2-C here. The Big Bang does not behave like the technique used here (at least not theoretically). The Big Bang is not an explosion with an epicentre like the one implied here, it's a highly rapid expansion of 'spacetime 'expanding at the same rate on multiple locations at once. A more accurate analogy would be a ballon expanding (I'm sure you've heard about this analogy). The balloon doesn't have a center of expansion, everything is expanding and moving away at the same rate when the balloon is filled with air.

      The feat used here is only a destructive explosion. And about it creating radiation, that is common place considering the massive explosion here. Radiation (in this case it would be ionizing radiation I believe) is just a transmission of energy in a wave form through a physical medium. Considering there has to be a medium for this to be transmitted, it kinda disproves the explosion erasing everything on a 4-D scale. 

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    • Creating the spacetime continuum of a universe from scratch is Low 2-C, whereas simply creating or destroying the matter within a universe with a large explosion tends to be counted as 3-A.

      Fiction recurrently tends to be unspecific regarding the distinction though.

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    • Ok we can just leave it as 3-A.

      Can someone please unlock his profile so I can add the other things to his page?

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    • I will do so. Tell me here when you are done.

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    • done. this can be closed now, thanks

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