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  • Dark649
    Dark649 closed this thread because:
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    18:02, October 23, 2017

    So since weve been on the topic of updating Demigra I beleive there is substantial evidence for him as 2-A or even High 2-A.


    1. It is stated in Xenoverse that there are infnite posible timelines or paths.  Now some argued they may not exist currently and are only possible, however we have confirmation in heroes that the possibilities are currently existing timelines when kai of time says the possibilites are overlapping becouse of demigra and that is why we have Gohan, Adult Gotenks, SsjG Goku, and Gogeta all in the same place. So infinte paths/possbilities each correlating to timelines, and the possibilities themselves alreay exist as said timelines, thus infnite timelines existing confirmed.


    https://imgur.com/a/3UUOU


    https://imgur.com/a/t135T


    This further shows Demigra is effecting the multiverse to when he is going to destroy the world in heroes if there was any question on that as well like was stated earlier.  Since Demigra/chamel can destroy this it would be a 2A feat instead of 2B.  And reaching the real world even further makes the feat even better.


    2. Now on to the High 2-A stuff


    a) Demigra is beyond time and space of the multiverse.


    https://imgur.com/a/A61wa


    b) Mira (who scales) trancends time


    https://imgur.com/a/jZmzp


    c) They exist outside the flow of time


    https://imgur.com/a/ga27k


    d) Demigra trancends the space time of the DBH multiverse to reach the real world and try to destroy it to.


    https://imgur.com/gallery/CTC2f


    E) Demigra spatially trancends the others with his technique in heroes (3 spatial + 1 spatial for spatial trancendance +1 temporal would theoretically be 5D)


    https://imgur.com/a/C9XQ3


    f) It is stated in the DBH manga that the real world is in a seperate dimension.  This is not the same as mere universes as they call universes as such, or as timelines, and you must trancend the DBH multiverse space and time to reach this place like with what Demigra did showing it is beyond an infnite 4D structure.


    https://imgur.com/a/xrNRr


    g) Android 16, who has doctor geroes full database and is a super computer android states he thinks the patroler is an extradimensional lifeform, which is something with extra dimesnions beyond 3 spatial and 1 temporal, so 5D or more.


    https://imgur.com/a/nfKlR


    So I beleive we should place Demigra either as At least 2-A, likely High 2-A or just outrgiht High 2-A personally, since he controls and trancends a multiversal+ space-time, and can even reach and destroy the real world, which is stated multiple times that the real world is in another dimension trancendant to the heroes multiverse,  and differentiated from just another timeline or unvierse, and even that the pattroler is thought to be extradimensional as further evidence for higher dimensions.

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    • Just leaving a comment here to keep track of this thread, btw, nice links Ryu!

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    • Following.

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    • Hey, can you mention Mira and Towa negating Chronoa's freeze technique. That would be proof of infinite speed or Time manipulation resistance.

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    • Well this was for tier, but I will make a thread for speed to after.  That is true, I will include that in it.  But basically he has infinte speed just for his attacks crossing an infinite multiverse alone in finite time, heck in heroes the world of void is part of the timelines so just crossing a complete timeline with your attack would be infinte speed tbh, and immesurable for trancending time and space and reaching his attacks to hgiher dimensions like the real world.

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    • Yeah, that is true.

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    • I will message Azathoth.

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    • I've messaged him.

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    • .

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    • Extra dimensional... Mira quite possibly transcending time without Amp in .. Xenoverse... Maybe... Just maybe.

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    • Interesting. Seems legit. However, waiting for the staff members and others to give their input. 

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    • I will also wait for others opinions.

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    • This would at least be enough for 2-A no?

      I find it quite strange how the games are so much more powerful than the actual cartoon. 

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    • It is amusing to say the least.

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    • The games go above and beyond the Anime mainly because of the writers and the themes. In most Modern DB games most of the themes are on space and time which allows greater feats.

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    • Bump

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    • Makes sense to me

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    • We should probably wait until Azathoth responds.


      As for me I'm going to wait until more people respond to give my opinion.

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    • What? Finally, some people agree with me that Demigra 2A is not outside the realm of possibility.

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    • Bluetrekking wrote: What? Finally, some people agree with me that Demigra 2A is not outside the realm of possibility.

      Im not saying its not possible. Im just saying that i wish to see if anyone counters this argument to see what side i will take.

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    • Im not buying High 2-A Demigra.

      At least 2-B, likely 2-A seems fine in my book.

      Everyone who "Trascends time and space" isnt outright 5D by deffinition.

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    • I also have doubts about High 2-A. "At least 2-B likely 2-A"(what PaChi2 suggested) might be in the realm of possibility though. But I would like to see what other people think for the moment.

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    • HOWEVER, if you can prove actual trascendece of time, Immesurable Demigra may be feasible.

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    • 1. The first set of scans show a random time patroller saying that history can take an infinite number of paths, referring to how any number of different events cause multiple branching timelines. The second set of scans is in Japanese with no translation provided, so that would be helpful.

      2a. This scan is meaningless. "Adventure beyond time and space" is such an incredibly nebulous term that it holds no real value, especially when the game is already about different timelines, possibilities, and villains who can travel outside the normal flow of time to different universes.

      2b&c. This is nothing new. Mira and Towa's whole thing is being able to move outside the normal flow of time, which even then only ends up as a travel speed feat when moving between timelines, as once they enter one they move at normal speeds.

      2d. This does not state he fully transcends the multiverse. It does not treat the fictional representation of the real world as completely and utterly transcendent.

      2e. This statement is such a jumble that it doesn't mean anything, but even taking it at complete face value, it's 4-D.

      2f. Different dimension =/= transcendent higher-dimensional world. Especially not when it's a brief mention with no other context to suggest such.

      2g. "extradimensional - (jargon, science fiction) Originating outside the known physical reality of the universe."

      I am currently fine with 2-B for the Heroes' incarnation of Demigra, but 2-A, or especially High 2-A, based on such vague statements is really pushing it.

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    • Agree with Azathoth.

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    • And this is what I was waiting for. I agree with Azzy too.

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    • Azathoth is beautiful guy.

      And I agree

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    • Well there is two claims referring to an action creates a timeline. When talking to Android 16, he stated that just by talking with him all other possibilities are eliminated. [1] In DBH there is a mode called Different path mode where a timeline is created based on different outcomes [2]

      In DBH, the DBH Multiverse/ world is treated like a video game compared to the Real world. It is viewed as fiction.

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    • I noticed that you specifically stated heroes Demigra .. Even though Demigra's biggest amp was in Tokitoki,an there's a connection between XV & Heroes. This kinda implies 2-B XV Demigra ( w/o hax, as it should be far superior to Demigra, who in Heroes didn't have a amp when doing the Multiverse level feat )

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    • 1. the first set says there are infiinte possible paths or timelines.  The second translates to "the possibilities are overlapping and that is why we have Gohan, Adult Gotenks, SsjG Goku, and Gogeta all in the same place." So since the possibilitie are existing timelines it shows the paths are not simply potential but currently exist. Thus infinite existing possible timelines is 2-A.


      2. a, b, c It is to show he trancends time and space and is outside of it, this is further backed by multiple other statements and showings about trancending time and space. Hell he lived in a place outside the flow of time and devoid of it for 75 million years.


      2 d. It literall says he trancends the world and time and space to reach the real world, so yes, it does say he trancends the multiverse.


      2 e. It clearly talks about diemsnions needing to be crossed, and it would be 5D since the heroes multiverse is already 4D and they must trancend it to reach this dimesnion, thus at least 5D.


      2 f. Extradimensional means extra dimensions beyond 3 spatial 1 temporal so 5D or higher. it is literally in the name, extra as in more diemsniojnal and that is its definition. Your first one you chose is jsut vauger but means the same thing.

      2. (jargon, science fiction) Coming from a dimension outside Einsteinian space-time.

      literally the same source you used

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    • @Seed

      I'm pretty sure Heroes and Xenoverse aren't the same continuity. There are multiple things to suggest they aren't, and I can't seem to find any source from where it was claimed that the events of the Demigra saga in Heroes are a sequel to the events in Xenoverse.

      @SSJRyu1

      1. That's not what any of that means. The first says history can take an infinite number of paths, which is basically the premise for most multiverses. If the second just mentions possibilities overlapping, that has nothing to do with infinite timelines.

      2a,b,c. Yes. This is all information we already knew. None of it suggests 2-A or High 2-A. This applies to a multitude of Tier 2 characters on both the lowest and highest end of the spectrum. On its own, for a character who is already Tier 2, it's nothing to write home about.

      2d. "Transcended space and went to a different world" is, again, meaningless for a Tier 2 character, and the hero is not treated as a higher-dimensional entity.

      2e. It doesn't say anything close to that. These are the two statements. "The dimension transfer system is operational" and "Dimensional transfer is about to begin". This is not High 2-A information. These are the type of nebulous statements made in many, many, many series on the wiki, which we ignore without any sort of context or substantial evidence. This is not the kind of stuff that bumps a character up one or two degrees of infinity.

      2f. Notice the definition of "dimension" matching the subject on the dimension page.

      "(science fiction, fantasy) An alternative universe or plane of existence."

      It does indeed mean the same thing, but it does not mean the being is higher-dimensional unless something like this is strictly implied.

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    • To add to the whole Heroes/Xenoverse thing.

      1. Mira seems to be able to enter his final form at will in Heroes, while in Xenoverse he needed to absorb both Towa and Tokitoki's egg.

      2. Bardock is still under Mira's control during Heroes. Regardless if it takes place before or after Xenoverse, that's impossible, as he breaks free in Heroes and then again in Xenoverse 2.

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    • 1. If there are infinte possible timelines, and if said possibilities are proven to currently exist as i showed there when they say the possibilites are overlapping thus exist, that would mean inifnte currently existing tiemlines.


      2. trancending time and space on a multiversal scale is something important, maybe not solely making somebody high 2-A, but it does support the evidence especially on a multiversal scale like here, it is even part of the reasoning listed on chronus profile for making him high 2-A, also it would afford immesurable speed to trancend them and live in a place devoid of and outside time.


      3. Actually thats incorrect in context since it is stated in manga said diffrent world is in another dimesnion and tehy differentiate it from the alternate universes or timelines.  A diemsnion that requires you to trancend space and the DBH "world" aka multiverse, that emans a dimension above the 4D space time of the multiverse tehy were already in.


      4. By themselves they do not prove 5D since they dont say what dimesnion, but since it is required to trancend 4D space time of the multiverse to reach said dimension as shown earlier, we now have the missing info, and it is logically 5D or more if it is a dimension that trancends a 4D mutliverse.


      5. It states for the definition from said page:

      "A measure of spatial extent in a particular direction, such as heightwidth or breadth, or depth." 

      aka a higher dimesnion in this case since you are trancending as it was stated, not just moving to anohter universe, which they are well aware of and refer to as universes or timelines.


      Also it says "outside einsteinium space time", this is refering to the concept of 4D space time as a whole which is what eintsteinium space time encompasses, a seperate universe with 4D structure would still be an einstinium spacetime, and in the strict definition of a dimesnion outside of this 4D concept it would mean logically geometric dimensions higher than 4.

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    • It is stated Demigra is dead prior to the events in heroes and he revives from his apparent destruction before going back in time to set the heroes events in motion, also they recap the events from xenvoerse and it is the same scenario prior.  So we know he is likely the same guy.


      Also the time pattrol functions the same way with the same backstory to across heroes online and xenoverse, all using trunks as a main, kai of time as the boss, and the pattrolers, and also they all have the time breakers like towa and mira present with the same goal of gaining kiri to power mira or causing space time distortions etc.  Most minor inconsitencies that arrise can be explained by alternate timelines to.


      1. Mira doesnt have his final form in heroes until just now in the trailer which we know nothing about yet, and it would be after xenvorse at this point anyway so if he came back he very well may maintain it.


      2. Bardock would exist in every timeline so there is noissue there, just an alternate version, there are even multiple version from xenvoerse alone.  Also heroes didnt have real story mode till after the whole bardock time breaker bardock thing endded, god missions is when story mode was introduced.

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    • 1. Nothing says that, though. Like, at all.

      2. Chronus, to my knowledge, transcends the multiverse in that it is a lower reality compared to him. This is not remotely the case for Demigra. He can still be threatened and challenged by beings who inhabit it.

      3. Again, nothing says that. We need things to actually say stuff like this.

      4. Yet another thing that is not shown or stated.

      5. You completely ignored the context, here. You took sci-fi jargon and then used the mathematical definition of a dimension, despite the same page providing the sci-fi jargon use of "another plane or universe". That's not how we do things for any verse.

      "It is stated Demigra is dead prior to the events in heroes and he revives from his apparent destruction before going back in time to set the heroes events in motion, also they recap the events from xenvoerse and it is the same scenario prior."

      Where, though? I can't find this information anywhere.

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    • 1. It states there are infinite paths history can take, aka infinite possible timelines. It translates to "the possibilities are overlapping" in the heroes scan I showed as reasoning for why alternate timelines like SSJG Goku, Gogeta etc were all in one place.

      infinite possible timelines + the possibilities being confirmed to currently exist = infinite timelines currently existing.

      2. Chronus is only stated to encompass the multiverse (2-B btw) and transcend space and time and the gods, nothing about higher dimensions is mentioned. Demigra also spread his power through the multiverse and transcended space and time with it even threatening to destroy the real world which is above the space of that and stated in another dimension, an he transcended many 4D beings as well as even the lowest god tier in heroes scales to tier 2.

      3. It says he "transcended space" and entered the real world to, which trunks was shocked by, even though Demigra's power was already spread across the multiverse in DBH. Also we know he is stated many times to be beyond time and transcend that etc if there was any doubt. And then we get the info that the real world is another dimension from the manga, if it were just another universe he wouldn't need to transcend the multiverse to reach it and Trunks would not be surprised by it, and it treats the DB stories like fiction btw, just games and stories.

      4. See above, it states they transcend the DBH world to reach the real one, which refers to the multiverse in terms of the dbh world. And the real one is stated to be in another dimension in manga.

      5. Oh no, that's not true. It specifically talks about it being a dimension outside einsteinium space time, which is the theory about 4 dimensions, a 4D universe even outside of it would still be einsteinium space time theory, it can only refer to a outside dimension as a higher dimension beyond that in that context for it to be outside of einsteinium space time theory and still be a dimension.

      http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Demigra

      Its tough info to find but it is available.

      It shows his history and under dark demon realm foundation saga which happens after xenoverse seemingly where he first appears in heroes says

      "Demigra revives after his apparent destruction, and travels back 75,000,000 years to his first battle with Chronoa"

      The snippet you found on his events prior apparently come from heroes manga, which explains why it doesn't show how he died since they often use the manga as a teaser. Xenoverse though has the exact same story and lead up as the manga, and explains how he dies, but no matter how you look at it he was completely destroyed and revives and regens from nothing even if you said it happened in an alternate timeline and not xenoverse.

      Normally I don't use wiki's, but this one has a good reputation and very few mistakes, also it is a pretty major event that is very specific and not really something up for interpretation if he was revived or not, so I have no reason to doubt it. Also since we have used quotes from it to get info on him in the past and they have been accurate further boosts my confidence.

      Its the same place the quotes for that snippet you posted earlier on the backstory, where the gohan vs demigra info came from etc.

      Also the time pattrol functions the same way with the same backstory to across heroes online and xenoverse, and we already accepted online as part of xenoverse for this reasoning, all using trunks as a main guide pattroler witht eh same story, kai of time as the boss, and the patrollers function the same, and also they all have the time breakers like towa and mira present with the same goal of gaining kiri to power mira or causing space time distortions etc. Most minor inconsistencies that arise can be explained by alternate timelines to.

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    • I feel, at least in my own opinion of course, that At least 2-B, possibly 2-A is probably a better solution than simply 2-A, if he really needs an upgrade at all.

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    • Aeyu wrote: I feel, at least in my own opinion of course, that At least 2-B, possibly 2-A is probably a better solution than simply 2-A, if he really needs an upgrade at all.

      Agreed. DBH can be vague and inconsistencies appear for the sake of the plot.

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    • I agree with Ryu and the paths history can take. This is portrayed in the DBH UMX video games when you create different timelines based on actions in another timeline.

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    • I think I'll agree with Aeyu.

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    • I agree with Ryu.

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    • Also, transcending one space-time is not the same as transcending all of them. Different possible universes/timelines could have different laws of physics, if we apply real world logic. Based on the, "infinite paths history CAN take," it sounds more like Demigra could possibly encompass infinite timelines, not that he does or will; this is based off his 2-B rating. I still stand by 2-B, possibly 2-A rating, if any upgrade is to occur. I don't think there's enough evidence for a *solid* 2-A.

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    • I'm not sure where to go about this. I can at best give Demigra an "At least 2-B" rating but even that is iffy at the moment.

      However I can agree on Xenoverse Demigra being "2-B" due to the fact that Toki Toki gave him a huge boost to anything he had previously,stating he was a new god who controlled Space and Time and being comparable to Beerus who could supposedly destroy all of history on his lonesome.


      Also i agree with Azathoth and Aeyu that these statements are far to vague to upgrade any of the characters to "2-A".

      And "High 2-A" is out of the question unless more solid evidence is brought up.

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    • DB Heroes is too vague and inconsistent to give a solid 2A. Like how Xeno Goku could have one-shot Demigra by going at least SS3 but did not for the sake of plot. Currently in DBH, Demigra would be complete fodder compared to the new villains. The Time patrol was solo'd by a random demon god about 6 times.

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    • So far from this thread I see really mixed opinions. Some say he should stay the same, some say possible 2A and some say outright 2A.

      Just a by the way, can someone explain to me what is the "real world" is because I am really confused. It is not part of the Multiverse, it is not a Higher-Dimension, it is a place that interprets the DBH world as fiction, transcends the Multiverse but not a higher dimension. This place is pretty unique.

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    • @Bluetrekking Real world is said to be another dimension in the manga.  Also it is said in heroes that you have to "trancend space" and it is outside the DBH "world" which refers to the multiverse of all the endless alternate timelines.  Also like you said it treats the events in heroes like fictional stories or games.  I persoanlly see it as a higher dimension as that fits all the statements made about it best.

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    • SSJRyu1 wrote: @Bluetrekking Real world is said to be another dimension in the manga.  Also it is said in heroes that you have to "trancend space" and it is outside the DBH "world" which refers to the multiverse of all the endless alternate timelines.  Also like you said it treats the events in heroes like fictional stories or games.  I persoanlly see it as a higher dimension as that fits all the statements made about it best.

      True, especially in the manga. I cannot see why not.

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    • And Ryu, what you stated about various possibilities existing is kind of off. Chronoa did not just say that Demigra caused various possibilities, she stated that possibilities that may have existed exist. This means that Demigra created infinite number of timelines. 

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    • I also agree with Ryu. He seems to have the better arguments so far.

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    • Kepekley23 wrote:
      I also agree with Ryu. He seems to have the better arguments so far.

      Agreed.

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    • Also, what are your thoughts on this:

      Demigra made  infinite timelines:

      https://imgur.com/a/t135T

      This scan translates to: "Various Kinds of infinite posibilities that may have existed overflow."

      Demigra turned all infimite possibilities into infinite timelines.

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    • @SSJRyu

      1. That does not remotely translate to that. She just says "the possibilities are overlapping". You did not show a scan that said "infinite possibilities are overlapping" or "all possibilities are overlapping". We cannot infer from the scene something that isn't remotely implied, when the direct line of dialogue basically say that possibilities are now overlapping and that's it.

      2. Like I said, to my knowledge. I know nothing about Saint Seiya. Matt would be better to ask on that topic.

      3. Again, it doesn't say that. It says "transcended space and went to a different world". You need to realize just how many franchises there are on this site that have statements like this that are meaningless because lack of any context. Especially so here, where the real world is treated simply as another reality alongside the DB multiverse and not a higher-dimensional plane of existence.

      4. See above. Transcending the confines of one multiverse to travel to another =/= transcending to a higher-dimensional realm, especially when a being from said other multiverse is on the same playing field as beings from the first multiverse.

      5. Again, outside of =/= transcendent. This is how everything here is treated. And, again, you also ignored that the Einsteinian space-time being referred to is the 4-D continuum of our universe. This is why "extradimensional being" and "being with extra dimensions" are vastly, vastly different.

      You are essentially asking us to upgrade every Tier 2 character who exists outside of their local multiverse. This is still nothing that points to 2-A, let alone High 2-A. If you want to prove 2-A, you need more clear evidence pointing to infinite timelines. If you want to prove High 2-A, you need evidence that Demigra is 5-D.

      "Demigra revives after his apparent destruction, and travels back 75,000,000 years to his first battle with Chronoa"

      I more meant "what part of heroes is Demigra stated to be dead before his first appearance?".

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    • Glad you got an exact translation.  Yes that is further proof imo of 2A size feat.  Thanks for sharing.

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    • I agree again with Azathoth.

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    • Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot wrote:
      @SSJRyu

      1. That does not remotely translate to that. She just says "the possibilities are overlapping". You did not show a scan that said "infinite possibilities are overlapping" or "all possibilities are overlapping". We cannot infer from the scene something that isn't remotely implied, when the direct line of dialogue basically say that possibilities are now overlapping and that's it.

      2. Like I said, to my knowledge. I know nothing about Saint Seiya. Matt would be better to ask on that topic.

      3. Again, it doesn't say that. It says "transcended space and went to a different world". You need to realize just how many franchises there are on this site that have statements like this that are meaningless because lack of any context. Especially so here, where the real world is treated simply as another reality alongside the DB multiverse and not a higher-dimensional plane of existence.

      4. See above. Transcending the confines of one multiverse to travel to another =/= transcending to a higher-dimensional realm, especially when a being from said other multiverse is on the same playing field as beings from the first multiverse.

      5. Again, outside of =/= transcendent. This is how everything here is treated. And, again, you also ignored that the Einsteinian space-time being referred to is the 4-D continuum of our universe. This is why "extradimensional being" and "being with extra dimensions" are vastly, vastly different.

      You are essentially asking us to upgrade every Tier 2 character who exists outside of their local multiverse. This is still nothing that points to 2-A, let alone High 2-A. If you want to prove 2-A, you need more clear evidence pointing to infinite timelines. If you want to prove High 2-A, you need evidence that Demigra is 5-D.

      "Demigra revives after his apparent destruction, and travels back 75,000,000 years to his first battle with Chronoa"

      I more meant "what part of heroes is Demigra stated to be dead before his first appearance?".

      1. Ryu has the direct translation of what Chronoa said. What she actually said is: "Various Kinds of infinite posibilities that may have existed overflow."

      This happens after Demigra warped the multiverse and created timelines.

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    • bby what you doing.

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    • Bluetrekking wrote:

      1. Ryu has the direct translation of what Chronoa said. What she actually said is: "Various Kinds of infinite posibilities that may have existed overflow."

      Could be solid. Where's the translation from?

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    • Agreed with Azzy.

      But is Demigra even 2B?

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    • Kanzenshuu.

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    • I agree with Azzy, by the way.

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    • We will need a link though so we can evaluate it completely and if it's legit so we can link it to his profile.

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    • I agree as well. I don't really support an upgrade, though if the Heroes scan is true, his Heroes form might be able to have a 2-B, possibly higher text, since the idea is supported by that game but not necessarily by Xenoverse.

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    • See the problem is I PM'd the guy. I would have to ask him to put it on a public Forum in order to link it. He is here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=445

      He does all the DBH translations. 

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    • Well, if anyone else is fluent in Japanese, perhaps we can try to get it translated, in the meantime.

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    • I can already see how the result of that translation is gonna turn out, but I shall watch anyway. :^)

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    • The very legend itself Hermes huh...very good Interxeption.

      Anyways im going to see what Azathoth thinks because im a little confused.

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    • Well, RIP that attempt.

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    • Getting your upgrade debunked by Hermes himself is almost an honor.

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    • lol :]

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    • Hermes is a tier 0 DB translator. Hermes >>>>>> every DB translator so I have no problem with it.

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    • And thus it all comes crashing down. Part of me was hoping for it tbh.

      Gintama meme 9

      For obvious reasons.

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    • Bluetrekking wrote: Hermes is a tier 0 DB translator. Hermes >>>>>> every DB translator so I have no problem with it.

      Imma give a Kudos for Bluetrek speaking TRUTH! (Echo voice)

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    • Hermes' power is so great he can debunk an upgrade thread without even knowing it exists lmao.

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    • Can someone more knowledgable about how possibilities affect time explain to me exactly what Chronoa is indicating ? 

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    • I don't exactly know what she is talking about. Her statement is kind of vague.

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    • The 2nd Existential Seed wrote: Can someone more knowledgable about how possibilities affect time explain to me exactly what Chronoa is indicating ? 

      When Demigra went into his Makyouka form, He warped the Multiverse and made possible timelines into timelines.

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    • Okay... At least we know he can affect the Multiverse.

      Remember when everyone was 4-B in Heroes. Now they have almost everyone in 2017's DBH 2-B ... XD 

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    • Well if thats true then it should be more evidence for solid 2-B Demigra.

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    • So what's the current status now? :^)

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    • I think we agreed that Hermes debunk translation actually gave more solid proof for 2-B Demigra so he is going to stay that way unless someone else wants to give 2-A Demigra a try.

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    • Agreed, I think we found him as a solid 2B and the information for him being 2A is too vague. Maybe one day either the games will be translated into English or more specific information comes out. If in a matter of months characters can jump from 4A to 2B, I have high hopes.

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    • Well I cant disagree with herms translation, i gues I was given a off translation on it.


      1 However it is still stated all sorts of possibilities are overflowing, implying that the possibilities themselves do already exist and aren't just simply possible.  and tehre are infinte possibilities as confirmed earlier.  So It still is essentially what I said at the start with the possibilities already existing.


      2. Fair enough, but I ahve read the threads, he got high 2-A for trancending space and time of the multiverse, and trancending the tier 2 gods like they do humans.  Demigra also trancends the multiverse and space and time, and many tier 2 gods, and even reaches a world outside of that to and is going to destroy it.  But in this case it states directly that the real world is another dimesnion as well.


      3. Its about context.  If it was trancending a universe and just going elswhere sure, not enough for proof of 5D, but in this "the world" refers to a multiverse and the real world is refered to as another dimension, one that requires you to trancend space and time of a multiverse, which Trunks is shocked about despite Demigra already effecting the whole mutliverse, not a unvierse or other multiverse.


      4. The issue is it never say they go to another multiverse, it states they go to another dimension, one where DB heroes is like fiction and where you have to actually trancend the previous multiverse to reach, not just leave to go to an equal one.  The fact you ahve to tranend it,a dn tehy state that it is another diemsnion combined is implying a higher dimension.


      5. Thats not correct.  Einsteinian 

      1. Of or relating to the theories of the theoretical physicist Albert Einstein.

      The "theories", not a specific structure.  Any 4D structure like our own would fall under Einsteinian space time theory.  Therefore any dimension outside of it would refer to higher diemsnions beyond 4D, not a seperate 4D Unvierse which still is under his theories of 4D space time.  Extradimensional simply means more dimensions beyond 4D when you look at the logical prefix and root, or the specific definition.  Saying somebody is extradimesnional is tantamount to saying they are 5D or more.

      In fact most physicists consider extradimensional as a term refering to 5D or more.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13070896/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/physicists-probe-fifth-dimension/

      So it is a solid term and should be considered a key phrase for determining higher diemsnional structures just like hihger diemsnional, or 5D, or hilbert space, or things of that nature.

      6. That would be dark demon realm foundation saga according to his profile history.  Basically the events of xenoverse occur, which are teh same as the heroes prequel manga for this arc, then he revives sometime before Xenvoere 2 and he goes back in time to help his past self gain power and the events of this heroes arc occur, then Xenvoverse 2 occurs after that.

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    • Proof of DBH being fiction: https://m.imgur.com/gallery/znxtw

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    • cool find man.  further shows the events are merely finctional to the real world.  Gonna save that.

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    • Found it after going through about 20 DB spinoffs.

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    • @SSJRyu1

      After this thread is done, I would appreciate if you stop creating any further threads about Demigra, or othervise bring up the issue.

      Azathoth has other revision discussions that he needs to focus on, and cannot constantly humor you.

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    • whyAntvasima wrote:
      @SSJRyu1

      After this thread is done, I would appreciate if you stop creating any further threads about Demigra, or othervise bring up the issue.

      Azathoth has other revision discussions that he needs to focus on, and cannot constantly humor you.

      why would it be un-authorised to bring it up again later ? DBH is an on-going franchise and Demigra is one of the recurring character and each of his apparence pretty much put his base form on the level of old 'final form' , even if it's concluded that he is not currently on that level , nothing indicate that he won't be later on

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    • There’s been multiple Demigra threads (I think around 5) this month alone, almost all of them address the same exact thing, and they were all open at the same time. I can understand the ruling.

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    • Not to mention there's been nothing which really concretely puts him at 2-A, at least from everything I've seen.

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    • Yes, we cannot continue to allow these types of threads. SSJRyu1 and other DB fans cannot continue to constantly pester us about it.

      I am open for staff suggestions about how to word a discussion rule that forbids the topic.

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    • “Until further notice, refrain from making any attempts to upgrade Demigra’s tier or add new abilities via material from Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Dragon Ball Heroes, or any other material originating from the official franchise.”

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    • Unite My Rice wrote:
      There’s been multiple Demigra threads (I think around 5) this month alone, almost all of them address the same exact thing, and they were all open at the same time. I can understand the ruling.

      Because those news feat all happened at the same time , as i said , it's on-going thing , making a rule to say 'never again , it is like that , end of story' is like making a rule to never discuss Goku's stats again because every 3 months he get stronger and has news feats , it's not like comics or dead series were their powers won't change much , except for the power pike and weakness pike

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      Yes, we cannot continue to allow these types of threads. SSJRyu1 and other DB fans cannot continue to constantly pester us about it.

      I am open for staff suggestions about how to word a discussion rule that forbids the topic.

      i don't see how it is pestering when there are news info and the character is actualy getting stronger in univers , if DBH was finished , i could understand , but here , the character is still active and still getting stronger , people made multiple post about the new info because they didn't check if someone else did , okay , but it's no reason to forbids the topic

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    • It's not technically, "forever," it's mostly due to a lack of evidence for giving him an upgrade. I'm sure if *actual* solid evidence comes along that staff would allow a thread like that.

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    • Aeyu wrote:
      It's not technically, "forever," it's mostly due to a lack of evidence for giving him an upgrade. I'm sure if *actual* solid evidence comes along that staff would allow a thread like that.

      If it's just temporary , i can see the logic then

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    • It's just a temporary thing. 

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    • Personaly , i'm for the upgrade , 2B is basicaly multiversal space time thing , no ? that's what Demigra could do in DBX , he only got stronger since then and since the real DBH world is above that multivers , it make it 2A by an unknow margin , maybe above , unless i'm missing something

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    • 2-A is strictly Infinite Universes.

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    • Unite My Rice wrote: “Until further notice, refrain from making any attempts to upgrade Demigra’s tier or add new abilities via material from Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Dragon Ball Heroes, or any other material originating from the official franchise.”

      New abilities should be fine. It is the constant upgrade attempts that have long since turned extremely tiresome and repetitive to deal with.

      However, we need a better explanation for why Demigra has his current statistics within the regulation.

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    • We’re gonna need somebody else for that last part 👀

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    • Maybe Azathoth is willing to help.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      2-A is strictly Infinite Universes.

      so what's the probleme ? DBO , DBH and DBX all happen in the same continuity and DBO already confirmed that there are infinit timeline (even supported by Trunks's statement back in DBZ) after something changed the nature of timelines and time travels (hinted to be what Demigra did that made the possible timeline become actual timeline , even Hermes said that the phrase could be translated to 'the infinit possibility are overlapping' or something like that : https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/922242510960844800 'No, though I suppose one might liberally translate 様々/"all sorts" that way.')

      each timeline is equal to 12 univers and a world of void in DBH , there infinit timeline by the time of Demigra's real world feat and said real world is above all the timeline and Demigra can affect the real world

      i still don't see why he can't be upgraded

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    • It depends on which we accept. Having a ton of universe without an "infinite" statement is nothing but 2-B.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz is correct.

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    • I agree with dragon.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      It depends on which we accept. Having a ton of universe without an "infinite" statement is nothing but 2-B.

      DBO's actual quote is something around the line of 'seemingly infinit timeline' , does it count or not ?

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    • Got a source?

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    • I also agree with Dragon. The most I feel like could qualify for without a further source is 2-B, possibly higher, and I don't even think that would happen.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      Got a source?

      i'll search for it , it's an old quote made hard to find since DBO has the 'Dragon online timeline' now , wich kinda fuck up the google search for the quote

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    • i didn't find back the original quote but i'v found one saying that countless timeline were created : https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/fW4_QVu7UBDgtwFyoOJjrXLyFp9XAxi30WXrzVUIkXUOeOPe8rH2HY5DEhFw00BbkQ=w530-h334-n-rw

      and Cell in Shin Budokai (wich is canon to the 'Fusion Reborn movie' , wich is part of DBO , DBH and DBX) stating that there are endless worldshttps://i.imgur.com/IB4Qh3A.jpg

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    • Resize that please

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      Resize that please

      you still see the picture ? (imgur is kinda random when you link it)

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    • I see no image, but reading the text, I see nothing for 2-A.

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    • I think that a Discussion Rule for this seems fine.


      As for the text, I'm pretty sure that "myriad" of paradoxes has been proven and accepted as "2-B".

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    • .... We've been over those scans. 

      BTW, if Jiren is considered stronger than Zamasu ... and Beerus is stronger than Infinite Zamasu (XV) , is it possible XV can be 2-B via that scaling method [ Infinite Zamasu merged with all of time and space . Beerus and Whis would be considered "stronger" than Infinite Zamasu . Both Beerus and Whis flat-out ignored Infinite Zamasu, but both recognized that Demigra was a threat with similar powers to Zamasu , albeit still treated as fodder in comparison, especially by Whis . ] .

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    • Super Saiyan God Julian wrote:
      I think that a Discussion Rule for this seems fine.


      As for the text, I'm pretty sure that "myriad" of paradoxes has been proven and accepted as "2-B".

      yeah , that's 2 B and the real world in DBH is ABOVE that , it's the dimension above that 2B multivers , so much above that for the real world , the multivers is fictional and Demigra affected that real world and was about to destroy it , that's 2-A , that's what this whole thread is about

      so i still don't see the probleme with the upgrade

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    • This thread has reached a lot of posts, which causes the page to slow down, so i have to close this.

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