I am not involved at all for the CRT and am not the most knowledgble member about the cthulhu mythos. However, nyarla is part of the outer gods and their rating iirc comes from the fact that they transend a 1A+ reality by incomprehensible amounts which equates to a tier of high 1-A making them one of the strongest if not the strongest high 1-As in the site. There are blogs and proofs for this in the wiki, check out azzy's blog and others to get answers. There is still more stuff that contribute to the rating which include stuff like the gates and thier transdence of reality and the many outerversal realms in the verse.
So is the difference between each Outer God, since there is an infinite hierarchy of them, also the same as the difference between each of the gates, which is greater than the difference between a baseline 1-A and an 11-C?
in a way, yes. however, since all the outer gods are so transended and so incomprhensible, they are incapable of 'killing' each other due to thier transendence over all of totality. also due to thier direct connection to azzy where the only way any outer god can be 'killed' is by azzy 'awakening' (which wont happen since azzy isnt even sleeping and the outer gods exist in a realm that is beyond all perspective and change). basically the outer gods are so beyond such scaling and power chains at this point where i really cant give an answer other than they are beyond such scaling chains of power.
1. Azathoth waking up doesn't break reality. That comes from a Lord Dunsay character named Mana Yood Sushai whose only connection to Azathoth is through the RPG. There is one vague quote that Azathoth dreams of existence in Fungi from Yuggoth but you really need to stretch to equate to that = destroying existence by waking up. If anything, Yog Sothoth is more likely the supreme being as he is shown to have now weakness, no bounds, and no limits in any form while Azzy has done so.
2. The family tree is inconsistent, because another letter has Lovecraft state Yog Sothoth has no progenitor. if you go by the original family tree, btw, Yog Sothoth/Azzy/Any outer god >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him. Remember that Lovecraft's author insert is either Randolph Carter, who is infinitesimal to Yog Sothoth, or the thing from The Outsider, which yeah. Or you could use the insert of Lovecraft in Robert Bloch's canon-to-mythos story who dies.
3. We know next to nothing about the gates. They pertain little to dimensionality. That has more to do with the vacua beyond thought and entity in Hypnos.
I plan on heavily revising the mythos. It has a dark tower-esque quote in the Lovecraft Circle from Kull.
the difference between the gates is unquantafiable. so i really cant say. however, it does seem to be indeterment in nature which is the greatest kind of difference. other than that i cant exactly give a accurate answer.
cant say, you could argue azzy weilds true omniptoence, you could argue the true god weilds true omniptoence, you could argue the creator has true omnipotence. to prove it, is impossible for a human and espically in fiction.
And all of it would be destroyed when Azathoth wakes up wow. What do you think is more casual and more impressive, destroying all of existence with your mere presence or destroying all of existence by waking up?
Azathoth isnt asleep at all. all of existence IS Azathoth, and so is non-existence and whatever is beyond. even yog is a mere part of Azathoth. Azathoth will never actually "wake up" (he isnt actually asleep, its a metaphor for the incomprehnsible) as he is beyond such things as change or prespective. Azatohth is far above destroying existence with his mere presense or by waking up as he is all of existence, there is truly nothing but Azathoth.
not really, at the point where azzy is, it just becomes far too incomprhensible and becomes very hard to compare with other verses. however, perhaps there are verses that equal CMs, maybe V&D wiki for example or some other verses.
If you were to bet on just one character and put your money on, who would you choose to win, Azathoth from CM or the True God from V&D Wiki? I know you always say they are equal, but what if you really have to choose one like your life depended on it who would you pick and why?
ahhhhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. why do u have to do this to me man xD. TBH ill put it on azzy for now just because the way he is described is one of the cloeset i have seen to a true supreme being imo, the True God is very likely the same but unfortuantly due to his very high and incomprehensible transdence (similar to azzy) there isnt much info to go on about him.
Though I asked Lionel about where he would place Azathoth in his cosmic hierarchy and he said he wouldn't even pass the first floor. Can you believe that lol I even explained how powerful Azzy is to him and he wasn't impressed.
Well hypnos pshyce basically got obliterated when he saw the creatures beyond the first gate and returned immediately to normal realms, the creatures didn't even care to notice him. However the outer gods did notice (nyar probably) and the second time he slept he got obliterated by catching thier gaze.
if you want a more clear explantion then go to azzys cthulhu mythos blog, it is mentioned there how hypnos gets obliterated. but basically hypnos caught a glimpse of the outer gods and to due to that got obliterated.
i would say so, cause i am sure the difference between the gates is greater than that of an infinite reality fiction difference and hypnos reached a level right below the first gate while transendeing an infinite amount of 1-A realms. so yes around equal.
True but based on the MASSIVE difference between the gates and the fact that Hypnos actually passed it, would you say Hypnos is a TINY bit stronger than a character who is infinite reality fiction differences above baseline 1-A?
You were right, it is insane! It looks bigger than Cthulhu Mythos to me. What do you think? I know you said you think they were equal but if you were to choose and bet for which is bigger what would you choose?
here is the thing. i believe the CM cosmology is equal to the verses and dimensions wiki cosmology due to a lack of info on both sides of these cosmologies, espically regarding that of monocoms in verses and dimensions wiki. the omnipotence higharchy is basically the exact same as the Gates in the mythos with the highest Aspect lords being the equavilent of the outer gods.(this omnipotence higharchy could be greater but too much info is lacking to say so). The True God is the equavlaient of Azathoth as The whole Box is a mere part of him that he 'dreams' similar to Azathoth.IIRC there is also a being similar to yog sothoth on the wiki but i forgot who he was. i have to say, i am possibly low-balling the verses and dimensions wiki cosmology due to lack of information on the nature of monocoms. however even then i cant really say i am low-balling cause this requires very high levels of comoslogy equliaztion which is really, really bad so even if i am high-balling v&d wiki cosmology, it might still be equal to the mythos. basically these two verses are equal for all intents and purposes.
dont think about it like that, in the mythos Azathoth is also "nothing". in v&d wiki, nothing is both below and above everything. the True God is the "box" (all of totality) and also "nothing". Azathoth is also all of totality and also "nothing" both beings transdense is that high. they both contain the qualties of aboslute "real" and aboslute "non/nothing". this is possible due to thier questionably omnipotent nature.
its also important to mention, just like Azathoth, The true god *is* the box and "nothing" while at the same time completely transending both. Azathoth is all of totality and "nothing" while transending both.
its meant to be hard to understand, this is how transdended these two beings are to the point of being complelty incomprhensible to us and all other things, we cant quantify these two at all due to thier level of transedence which is why i see them as equals.
i would even say that these two are as high as you can go honestly,(true omnipotence?). in both fiction and reality, however i am merely human so i really cant say. btw i did some research on ain soph and he is probably equal to these two.
sorry man i dont think i can give you an answer any time soon, too busy with other things currently. btw something about ain soph, he seems to have similar description of transendence to azzy and the True god. however, he doesnt have a cosmology to back up him up to the tier of the previous two. just wanted to put that out there. but he is definitaly tier 0.
its fine, i was just putting out what i though was right but i am definitaly not as knwoledgble as wokistan or azzy about CM and i am neither knowledble in masadra and iam recently getting on this debating thing proper. anyway apology accepted and i wish you the best of luck on your blog! its really good.
oh holy geez, though i can definitaly see Hajun in the 'new' 1-A going from your explanations, i am going to look more into them so i dont look like an idiot to you xD. but wow two new tiers, you have any idea whos getting assigned in them?
edit: i just got that the new tier 0 is just a redefined tier 0 xD. its for the better honestly.
Masadaverse entire Pantheon, CM's Ultimate Gods, Umineko Voyager Witches (probably?) and Featherine are solidly in the new 1-A, while the 0s... you can guess the rest. I mean, you already got almost all of them right.
honestly youre doing really great, you just need more time and some help which i am pretty sure some are already providing which is really nice of this community. youre knowledge is on point and youre points are irrefutable, youre doing really well, its honeslty my fault for not looking at your blog more deeply cause the information is on point. legit the more i think about it the more i am starting to agree with your points of hajun being outer god level.
yeh that makes more sense, the higharchy of the outer gods themselves will be similar to the taikyoku then probably. btw after reading and thinking about youre blog, i complelty agree with Hajun being outer god level and well above nyr, around the same level as top outer gods (excluding azzy and yog). around feathrine maybe?
hope it does, it better organises the top tiers of the wiki into something more comprehnsible than before, even though unfortuantly thats not saying much. i would probably say all of the ultimate gods(excluding yog and azzy), the masdara pantheon and the uminkeo witches (inculding feathrine) fit pretty nicely into the "new 1-A". i can definitaly see Hajun=feathrine which is top outer god level. you may perhaps use that in your new blog as a comparsion to make it easier for more people to understand?
i mean your blog is already pretty good but not many people know about masdara like they do for example the mythos which is really popular for all the stuff it popularised, legit cant count the cthulhu refernces i have seen in alot of media. just something to take into account for the future amazing blog youre going to make.
While I'm trying to make it better and simplify it for better understanding, I don't really feel like making all those "muh transcendence" comparisons on the explanation blog, it's a bit... too much for me.
youre doing great either way, just thought if the comprasions were to be used then there would be less confusion and less heated debates, youre not obligied to do any of that though as what you already did is pretty good.
yo wassup! so i have been thinking about this for a while now and would just like to know for the future, how does Hajun compare with something like yog? just wanna know for future comparsions of stuff.
that makes more sense, what is naraka btw? i have seen it quite alot recently however unforutantly i have no idea what it is. dont want to bother you but can you give me a brief description of what it is?
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btw just a quick question, whats a bump? i see it alot in these verse threads and would like to know what it means? from what i can infer it just means that the fight itself doesnt make sense due to it being a mismatch.