"Several thousand times" would be an exaggeration. But if you take the highest values for the ultimate strength of steel and the lowest value for carbon nanotubes, you can get a feat of 7 Kilotons of TNT (7-C) and 81 Kilotons of TNT (7-C+). But I can't say for sure that such values will be accepted.
Hey! I had some questions about calcs for Tokyo Ghoul and i was wondering if you could help out and explain/answer some things? Do you have a discord to chat easier?
I was gonna ask for help with quantifying two feats during Ken’s battle with Dragon, specifically when he slices 5 of them in half with a single strike[[1]]and when he near-vaporizes several of them [[2]]. I understand both of these would probably yield results lower than what Ken is currently listed at (city-level) so I didn’t want to waste your time, I’m just curious how strong post-Dragon Ken’s normal attacks (I.e Kagune slicing) and AoE’s are. Dragon was not visibly damaged by tank shells so it’s material should be harder than normal steel.
If you could help it’d be appreciated but if not I understand! :)
I will say more - the Dragon was not damaged by tank shells at all. Despite its incredible strength, the kagune mass is quite elastic. You could see this elasticity when the builders started poking the sleeping tentacle with a stick. It would seem that they had punctured it with some kind of quinque, but the pressure point was incredibly stretched. In the case of tank shots, and it is with the lower one that we see the same thing. The explosion has a small area, the point of contact is stretched, and the fire goes down. With the upper hit, the situation is different, the explosion is also directed outward, but the damage seems to be there. Even though it was in the eye area, I can't say for sure. The same helicopter rocket fire only pushed the Dragon's head away. Regarding the vaporization of tentacles, I have already had an accepted calc with this feat. The result was The most basic low 7-C line. You can read it if you want - https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:NikHelton/%22Tokyo_Ghoul%22_lvl_up. The feat is at the very end.
Honestly, I myself expected to see a much better result, but it turned out that it did. But it is worth considering that this is a low-end, because the most basic kagune was equated to steel, usually in the context of battles with weak-ranked ghouls. I don't think it's necessary to say that the Dragon's kagune is much harder.
Thank you for the reply! What you said makes sense. Two things:
1. Even though the tank shots might have caused damage or caused it to move, visibly they did not cause any damage (no piercing, no chunks missing, etc.), it’s completely intact: which would not be the same for steel. Which I think is important considering Ken could destroy it entirely.
2. I looked at that calc and it seems like it underestimates the size of the Dragons. We see the size of them and they rival skyscrapers even when coiled up and not completely elongated [[1]]. Their height could easily be over 200 meters each considering they dwarf buildings in size that dwarf normal buildings. There is also no remains of any of the Dragons. When Ken descends and when he lands to the ground, we see not one remaining piece of Dragon leading me to believe he completely obliterated all of them in his vicinity.
Thanks again for replying and helping I appreciate it!
The tentacles that attacked Ken were inside the nest, the so-called Dragon heart, and were smaller than Ken. These are different tentacles in principle. The first represent the limbs of the Dragon, and the second - living defense mechanisms. We can try to measure their size in a different way and use the energy to vaporize iron rather than grind steel. Maybe something spectacular will come out.
If you can prove that in the feat of strength, the earth has evaporated, then perhaps it will be something at the level of the block. Assuming that the earth evaporated within the radius of the entire explosion.
I think we should discuss this, namely which ends of the feat does Mob scale to. If it's just the low end then his tier would just be "High 7-A to 6-C" since his stronger emotions would be above that which scales to the feat. However if either the low and mid-end were accepted then his tiering would be "At least High 7-A, likely 6-C to 6-C" since his weaker emotions would scale to either end with the stronger ones upscaling from there.
The low end of Shigeo's cloud feat in Anger matters in High 7-A, however, it was a passive attack. In the future, Shigeo put much more effort into attacks and his subsequent emotions should scale up to the baseline of 6-C. in Anger, he probably already reaches this level, but since we don't know for sure, he has a "likely 6-C". The second key includes the entire spectrum of emotions,and therefore can not be limited to one feat of one of the weakest emotions. What's more, Mob one-shot 80% of Suzuki, which should be scaled much higher than Shigeo's cloud feat. I can only assume, but scaling to the middle end of the cloud feat should be at least fair. So it has a strength of about 8.5 Gigatons of TNT. As I've heard, the minimum strength to one-shot an opponent must be X7. 5 times its strength. Thus, Shigeo's strongest emotions can be scaled up to 64 Gigatons of TNT, which already gives Shigeo 6-C+. I could continue this line, after all Toichiro in further one-shot this same Mob's forms, after all Shigeo first time for entire manga declared, that can die. This scaling would give 100% Toichiro a strength of 480 Gigatons of TNT and High 6-C, but all this is inaccurate data. So I wanted to justify the 6-C level of characters and show that they can be much stronger.
We don't use the 7.5x difference for one-shotting characters in-verse, that's only for vs matches. This is due to the fact that the power needed to one-shot can vary massively between verses. That being said, let's break it down a bit:
100% Anger gathers massive clouds over Spice City as a mere result of Mob powering up to that state. Toichiro at 20% easily keeps up with this variant of 100% so he should at the very least scale to Anger. Far later when Toichiro has powered up to 80%, he completely demolishes Sadness yet when Mob enters 100% Resignation he completely crushes Toichiro. 100% Courage should at the very least be comparable to Resignation so he'd scale above 80% Toichiro, who's at least 4 times stronger than his 20% self, who's comparable to 100% Anger, who casually performed the feat. So going by the calc;
Low-end: 100% Courage>>9.6 Gigatons
Mid-end: 100% Couarge>>34 Gigatons
High-end: 100% Courage>>154 Gigatons
I'm also more partial to the mid-end. It makes no sense for it to have taken 10 seconds when the manga portrays this as something immediate enough to halt Toichiro mid-attack. What would we do about that?
To assume that 80% of Toichiro is 4 times stronger than 20% of Toichiro is wrong, because only 1% was enough for him to make it impossible for Serizawa to block his attacks. The last 20% was enough for Resignation Mob, who had previously one-shot 80% of Suzuki, to think that he was going to die.
I think we can leave it as it is. "High 7-A, likely 6-C" stands for Shigeo's initial and least powerful emotions, such as Anger. It is clear that it should be an order of magnitude stronger than the feat that showed when released, but this is all we have. But other emotions like Resignation and Courage are the most powerful of all, so they are definitely 6-C, far beyond the baseline. It is worth noting that even if we assume that 80% of Suzuki is stronger than its 20% version by 4 times, Resignation still one-shoted him, which requires well at least a superiority of 2 times. Starting from the mid end of the feat as the most fair, the power of 80% Toichiro = 34 Gigatons of TNT. The strength of the Resignation, as completely overwhelming, must be at least 68 Gigatons of TNT. The power of 100% Suzuki, almost killing 100% - Resignation Mob, must be at least 136 Gigatons of TNT. Strength 100% - Courage Mob is stronger than Resignation because it doesn't die in battle, but still weaker than 100% Suzuki. So it will be something in the middle - (68+136) 2 = 102 Gigatons of TNT.
First, get in contact with a calc group member and see which end should be accepted. Otherwise we'd have two entirely different ranges of AP for a single key which is ridiculous.
Second, I'm sticking to the percentages since they give more reasonable ends and don't require one to make any hypothetical multipliers. Yes, percent increases are far larger than what's stated but this is the safer way to estimate it.
I did the calc of this feat twice, however, due to the fact that I write in the translator and it was updated twice - the calc was lost twice.
However, I can say that the results are not bad. Depending on the distance they range from High of 7-A to Low 6-B.
I could do the recalculation again, but then your help won't be superfluous. The entire calc is based on the fact that the earthquake was felt in another city. Mob and Reigen took the train to this city. I may be wrong, but according to Google, the average speed is 130 km / h. If you have data on this issue, it would help. Even the level of the feat varied from the time they spent on the path. Since the city was in this Prefecture and the trip took time, I took the value of 1 and 2 hours. But you can offer fairer options.
I think a 6-C to High 6-C mid-end would be fine. The most I could find is that they're around 75 to 100 km/h in terms of average speed. I think the the 75 km/h low-end (or whatever low-end you have) would be a good way to make a more grounded calc (IIRC, baseline Low 6-B is what it takes to wreck Japan yet....you see where I'm going with this).
I'm starting from this option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity_Express Which has an average speed of 160 km / h. Low 6-B is repelled by an earthquake that has spread more than 250 km and seems to look fair. This is just on the same level as Mob's feat when it erased the world in Mogami reality.
Well, go for it. Though if this goes through, you can kiss any cross-scaling between Tatsumaki and ???% goodbye (unless we start scaing her to 100% Mob).
Planck69 wrote: Wait, do we have an actual time-frame for how long they were travelling? That could influence the calc quite a bit.
We just know that it didn't get dark while Mob and Reigen were driving. Although in later events it became darker. I think they left in the morning and arrived in the afternoon. All this is just a dry assumption, so you should find a fair option.
Could you find the average distance between two stops of a tram? We could use that to find the minimum time that could be taken by it to reach the next city. If not then 30 minutes, 1 hour and 2 hours could be used as justifiable ends for the calc.
I spoke with Dargoo on this topic and he suggested that calc is not valid because such destruction did not go beyond the city limits. The maximum that can be obtained from this is the middle and low ends of 6-C
NikHelton wrote: I spoke with Dargoo on this topic and he suggested that calc is not valid because such destruction did not go beyond the city limits. The maximum that can be obtained from this is the middle and low ends of 6-C
That's a bit untrue. The esper that helped them exorcise the Kuchisake Onna was shown to have come from another town and even he felt the earthquake. What's more, violent tremors and objects being sent flying were reported by news outlets in the next town over (though this town may not be the one the aformentioned esper is from). So I think it absolutely went past city bounds.
For calc to work, the specified magnitude must be felt at the specified distance. It is in other cities have felt only minor shaking, but not by a massive earthquake.
The earthquake at that distance was at least violent enough to sent things flying and kick up massive winds if the news reporter is to be believed. If not then how would you suggest that I rework the calc?
The wind currents were observed by a station several kilometers away to which Pervy esper remarks is in the next town over. Moreover, the station that reports this wasn't yet affected by technology shutting down so it would at least have been somewhere beyond Spice City and Mob's immediate range at the time.
Buildings collapsing was still within Spice City I'll give you that. How would you suggest I recalc it?
You can find a more accurate city size. In the anime, we have a map of a couple of districts and the location of home Shigeo. I also remember how in the second season (I don't remember the series, sorry) in the office of Reigen on the wall lit up a map of the city. I think the most you can do is watch the series in the anime and read a Chapter in the manga when he was looking for espers 20 kilometers from home and try to find its location on the map. If possible, you can scale the size of the city from a distance. Or you can take into account the movement of characters around the city and find the distance using this. Let's say in the same series with espers, he and former members of the claw went somewhere in a car at high speed (the car turned into a dot on the horizon in seconds).
The manga never gives a direct indication of where Mob found the espers so I'm not sure if the map would be particularly useful.
For the last feat what do you think the distance could be? He'd lifted the car over some low-rise buildings at the very least so I'd appreciate your help in that regard. I'm not much of a calcer. And he'd travelled at least 20 km yet the city still extended to the horizon in every direction when he was in the air.
Based on the size of the buildings, the car crossed a distance of 594 meters in 2 seconds, which gives us a speed of 297 m/ s . The ride took some time, but Kayama noted it as very fast and said that he was seasick. I think you can use 3 endings for time - 2, 3 and 5 minutes . This gives us a distance covered of 35.64 km, 53.46 km and 89.1 km. This distance can be used as the radius of the city .
Those values when added to the 20 km radius (as he wasn't able to sense the Seventh Division espers from his home) ironically give higher values than my own calc.
At the moment, I can 't give you straight exact numbers, but I can suggest formulas for finding them.
To find the distance, I measured a three- story building and got a height of 12 meters. Then I used the formula: Distance = object length in meters*panel height/(object length in pixels*2 tan(35*)). The resulting distance is divided by 2 seconds to find the speed , but you can find a more accurate player to find out the exact time down to tenths of a second. Well, which ends are fair to use at your discretion.
According to Dargoo, the feat can't really be used since we don't know the exact extent of the earthquake across Spice City. So I guess Mob will have to stick with upscaling from other 6-Cs unless you have any ideas.
All edits are relative to the feat of Amon. He stopped Saiko's attack with his bare hands and held it in full force. She, in turn, not the most powerful attack destroys the building. I think that's a worthy cause to raise LS, because there the force of the impact, calculated in tens tons. And then there is parity with other characters. Seido being in kakuja keeps the pressure kakuja of Amon that should be much stronger than his normal form. Their collision causes shock waves.
On account of lifting strenght at Eto: it overturned the multi-ton compactor, making it easy. The weight of the compactor in my calc gives "Class M".
I've already brought the ratings down to Class 100, but Amon's feat still needs to be calced. In case it doesn't get calced, I'll have to lower the ratings even more to be on the safer end.
Sorry, what? The Eto managed to knock over a compactor, which according to my calc weighs tens of thousands of tons. My calc has been accepted, so why isn't LS accepted? Выделите текст, чтобы посмотреть примеры
AKM sama wrote: Oh, I totally skipped the weight part of the calc. You should have bolded the final weight and mention that it's for lifting strength.
What about Amon's feat?
Scaling Amon is raising Saiko's punch. But now I'm not so sure about that, because I can't find the formula. The bottom line is that Saiko's punch breaks down buildings, and it gives at least hundreds of tons to hit. Is the rise and overpowering of such a blow considered pure physical strength for the feat LS?
Well, the breaking of buildings comes from striking strength and we can't scale Amon's lifting strength from it. If it's not possible to calc it correctly, we'll have to revert the ratings back to what they previously were.
I have some doubts regarding Eto's lifting feat too, but I'll ask Spino about it.
In any case, the edits seem to largely be poorly formatted, and not contain any links to calculations that explain the new values, so I have to revert them.
Antvasima wrote: In any case, the edits seem to largely be poorly formatted, and not contain any links to calculations that explain the new values, so I have to revert them.
Okay, I just thought that since calc was accepted, the result could be set. You can make a thread on the page of the verse to Monarch and the rest of the people got acquainted with the calc and have already made the change themselves?
If there are accepted calculation blogs, somebody needs to link to them within the profiles to justify the new statistics, and also properly format the edits. You can start a content revision thread to ask for help from more experienced editors.
Antvasima wrote: If there are accepted calculation blogs, somebody needs to link to them within the profiles to justify the new statistics, and also properly format the edits. You can start a content revision thread to ask for help from more experienced editors.
You can name the thread "Tokyo Ghoul Revisions", and then write what you want to change based on the accepted calculation blogs, which you also link to.
You can name the thread "Tokyo Ghoul Revisions", and then write what you want to change based on the accepted calculation blogs, which you also link to.